The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

[Adeejay]

Jessa and Jinger did not have “careers” at a coffee shop.  They ran a charity fundraiser at a coffee shop for one day.

[Darknight]

I think Jana has been parentfied so much that she doesn't want kids of her own. She already raised kids, why raise more kids when she doesn't have to. Maybe Jana does want to get out but doesn't know how. Or does want to get married, but marriage brings babies. Maybe she wants to travel and find herself.

[awaken]

Just watching the Wedding Countdown ep and felt so terrible all over again for lovely Jana.  Her face when Anna asked her if making those blasted dresses and ties was her entire life for the past two months was so sad.  She said yes, pretty much, for the past month.  She was trying hard to look happy but the sadness and frustration came through when she was talking about how she had to try several different ways to make the ties (and it wasn't even necessary!!).

 

And in another scene, I think the pre-wedding nail scene, Jill said she wasn't stressed at all, because she'd given all the planning over to Jana to do so she (Jill) didn't have to do anything but show up.

 

A lot of the time she does manage to look and speak genuinely happy, but I can't see how that is truly possible.  I feel terrible that she is clearly a kind, hardworking, talented young woman and she seems to barely be let out of the house, or to get a higher education.  I would love to know what her hopes and dreams are.  

[joanofarch4]

"A lot of the time she does manage to look and speak genuinely happy, but I can't see how that is truly possible."

 

Again, it's possible she views it as a kind of religious life.  I'm sure most of modern America can't possibly understand how missionaries, priests, and nuns can be truly happy, but I'm sure they are.  Not everyone sees marriage (half of which end in divorce) and breeding a lot of mini-me's as the height of human fulfillment...  Some live more on an intellectual or spiritual than physical plane, and I can see Jana being one of these.  Perhaps she's content to put off companionship until later -- or even indefinitely -- to be there for the siblings which she clearly truly loves and feels responsible for, whether appropriately or not.  I have a feeling Jana will have her happy ending one day.

[GEML]

"A lot of the time she does manage to look and speak genuinely happy, but I can't see how that is truly possible."

 

Again, it's possible she views it as a kind of religious life.  I'm sure most of modern America can't possibly understand how missionaries, priests, and nuns can be truly happy, but I'm sure they are.  Not everyone sees marriage (half of which end in divorce) and breeding a lot of mini-me's as the height of human fulfillment...  Some live more on an intellectual or spiritual than physical plane, and I can see Jana being one of these.  Perhaps she's content to put off companionship until later -- or even indefinitely -- to be there for the siblings which she clearly truly loves and feels responsible for, whether appropriately or not.  I have a feeling Jana will have her happy ending one day.

This is the thing -- I don't get the impression that Jana is trapped or being kept against her will by anyone, even herself.  I just think she sees the world differently than most of us likely do.  And that's ok, as long as it's ok with her.

[Jellybeans]

This is the thing -- I don't get the impression that Jana is trapped or being kept against her will by anyone, even herself.  I just think she sees the world differently than most of us likely do.  And that's ok, as long as it's ok with her.

I agree. It is easy to project what we think she should feel, forgetting the background she's from. She does not appear unhappy to me. I think her story will come out when and if she chooses to share it.

[drafan]

I think all this "Poor Hard-working Put-upon Jana" stuff is contrived editing by JB...he's clearly trying to "sell" Jana to a fundie guy. I know...ick. I'd bet she's had suitors, but he's rejected them all. The other 2  guys for Jill and Jessa came forth because of the show......Derick was probably searching for a pure girl near his age and Ben had the hots for Jessa because of TV. JB is not very imaginative. He's going to use the same method right down the line. Poor Jinger...she's next.

[Jellybeans]

I don't know if there is even a suiter involved. Maybe one day she will ask for her payout and we'll discover she's working as a waitress in a remote town, living alone. And likes it.

Everything is speculative at this point. I have a wait and see approach with her but in no way do I perceive her as lovelorn, unhappy, or stuck.

I think JB looks for a suitor only if his daughter desires one. Jill was quite eager.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Jellybeans

[GEML]

I really don't think that Derick came to JB looking for a wife. I think he came looking for a father figure and was attracted to the family and admired Jim Bob. It's no wonder JB wanted to bring him into the family literally - I'm sure he quite liked being admired in that way.

And for all we know, he suggested Derick to Jana first. She is kind enough, I think, to never, ever, mention it to anyone if that is the case.

[RedheadZombie]

I think Jana has been parentfied so much that she doesn't want kids of her own. She already raised kids, why raise more kids when she doesn't have to. Maybe Jana does want to get out but doesn't know how. Or does want to get married, but marriage brings babies. Maybe she wants to travel and find herself.

 

I wish it were true, but I think Jana wants children.  Just by the way she acts when with Josh and Anna's kids.  I think she adores children and yearns for her own. I read an article recently that stated that some fans of the show are upset with Jana's treatment.  Just the whole Cinderella aspect of her staying behind and hemming all of the dresses in Jill's wedding (although all the older sisters sew), and the focusing on her tears when asked if she had her own suitor.  There's just something about her that touches me.  She seems to be a truly kind person, and I hate seeing her taken advantage of - by the entire family.

 

I agree with the belief that Jill was introduced to Derick because she is JB's favorite.  I would feel good for Jana that she was Jessa's second bridesmaid, if I wasn't so sure Jessa was just sticking it to Jill by placing two sisters before her.

[3girlsforus]

This is the thing -- I don't get the impression that Jana is trapped or being kept against her will by anyone, even herself.  I just think she sees the world differently than most of us likely do.  And that's ok, as long as it's ok with her.

I agree but I think the last sentence is the key.... 'as long as it's ok with her'... I'm not sure she's in a position to decide if it's ok with her. She sees the world differently because she's been taught that way but isn't really encouraged to wonder if she'd rather do/be anything else. In fact she's been taught that wanting to do/be anything else is not Godly. 

 

I hope Jana is happy. If she is, then great. I just hope she feels free to make decisions for herself and make a conscious decision that this is her life and this is what she wants. And I hope if she decides she doesn't want to live with Mom and Dad anymore that she's allowed to make that choice. I don't get the impression that is something Chelle/JB consider acceptable.

[GEML]

Here's the thing -- at some point you have to let Jana be an autonomous person too.  She's an adult.  She's an adult who has had far more interaction with the real world than a lot of super-Fundamentalists her age because of the television show, and she's chosen NOT to leave, or speak out, or any other choices.  I know a lot of children who have left, and haven't had nearly the advantages that Jana has had.  Jana has her cousin Amy, her aunt Deanna, her entire mother's family, and likely plenty of people that she has met along the way.  She would be able to sell her story to the tabloids, write a book, film a "tell all"  and at least earn enough money to get a reasonable head start -- something that plenty of young people who leave Amish, Mennonite, Orthodox Jewish, and other sects without education or preparation, dressed in odd clothes filled with fears that they are eternally damned for leaving manage to do.

Thus, I have to assume she is there because she wants to be.

[cmr2014]

I don't know that that's necessarily the full story here. 

 

Jana could leave and write a tell-all book, but what would happen? Would the show get cancelled? Then all of her younger brothers and sisters would be back in the position she was in as a little girl when there wasn't enough money for groceries and they took handouts from the church?

 

Without the cameras, what sort of repercussions would there be on the ones at home? JB has admitted to having "anger issues" -- could she be concerned for their safely if the cameras weren't there?

 

Michelle is certainly checked-out as a mother. She could well feel that someone needs to be there for the younger kids.

 

We may be able to see options for her that she simply cannot see for herself.

 

And, of course, she could be perfectly happy. She might like the TLC money, the trips, the admiring young fans, etc. She looks sad to me, but maybe that's just how she looks on film.

[floridamom]

The Duggars would be able to live on the interest from their cash accounts and the rental income that Jim Bob gets independently from the TLC income. Don't worry, they won't starve if TLC packed up the truck and cameras. They wouldn't take those TLC sponsored elaborate trips anymore, but who does?

I wonder if Michelle actually realizes that Jana is almost a 25 year old woman? She should be ashamed of herself, as her mother, for the advantage she takes of her daughter. Where was Michelle in life at 25? She has enjoyed "sweet fellowship" all along, was married woman with a household, husband, and children of her own. Regardless of the fundamentalism taking over their lives, she was in charge of those decisions, too. Jana, I'm afraid, is taken advantage of by everyone, including Jill, who stated so in her choice of words about merely" telling Jana to handle her wedding and alterations" for her. No one really gives that young woman a second thought and she was "trained" to believe going against anyone in the household is sinful, how sad for her. Michelle has some set up going there.

[Darknight]

I don't know that that's necessarily the full story here.

Jana could leave and write a tell-all book, but what would happen? Would the show get cancelled? Then all of her younger brothers and sisters would be back in the position she was in as a little girl when there wasn't enough money for groceries and they took handouts from the church?

Without the cameras, what sort of repercussions would there be on the ones at home? JB has admitted to having "anger issues" -- could she be concerned for their safely if the cameras weren't there?

Michelle is certainly checked-out as a mother. She could well feel that someone needs to be there for the younger kids.

We may be able to see options for her that she simply cannot see for herself.

And, of course, she could be perfectly happy. She might like the TLC money, the trips, the admiring young fans, etc. She looks sad to me, but maybe that's just how she looks on film.

The duggars have plenty of money from tlc stashed away. Jana might be scared to get shunned. And ratings for the tv show would go up because a Duggar rebels. JimChelle would be publicly called out for shunning her

[GEML]

But at some point, you have to say the ultimate responsibility for Jana's life is on Jana. She could, as Priscilla Duggar did, ask to go and work in Chicago. She could do a long term mission project. Even as closed as their society is, there ARE some options open to her that we know other girls her age have taken.

It seems clear to me, for whatever the reasons are, she has made the calculation that staying with her family is where she wants to be. Sometimes she does look sad, but she looks more genuinely happy than some of the fake smiles the others plaster on because she isn't happy all the time. I think one reason we all react so strongly to her is because she seems the most human to us.

But that doesn't mean she would make the same choices to her situation that you or I would. I know she didn't make the choices I made. I DID leave. And I have letters from family members saying that I'm not welcomed back. So I know what she has to lose.

[Joe Jitsu913]

When and where did Jana say that she was struggling about loving someone in her family? That's some statement!

It was a phone interview for JTTH. The J'slaves were talking about things they "struggle " with. Things like vanity, being quick to anger etc. Jana mentioned she was struggling with a family member but didn't name names.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Joe Jitsu913

[RazzleberryPie]

I really don't think that Derick came to JB looking for a wife. I think he came looking for a father figure and was attracted to the family and admired Jim Bob. It's no wonder JB wanted to bring him into the family literally - I'm sure he quite liked being admired in that way.

And for all we know, he suggested Derick to Jana first. She is kind enough, I think, to never, ever, mention it to anyone if that is the case.

I don't think he was looking specifically for a bride either. Father figure, spiritual mentor, possibly mission sponsor, all that yes. Meeting and falling for a daughter was icing on the cake. As for why he and Jill clicked and not he and Jana, I think Jim Bob heard the words "hear for missions" and zoned in on Jill, who said she wanted to be a missionary midwife in Latin America or somewhere, so he thought they'd match better. Jana has never given an indication the she wants to do long term missions, so someone with that goal wouldn't be a great match for her.

 

Also, they may have tried harder to help Jill, because honestly, she was so drunk on the Koolaid, she needed it. I was sure she'd be the Stay at Home Daughter of the bunch, and be content. Jessa had to be married off before she did something sinfully embarrassing (i.e. not really bad, but defiant and therefore out of control and embarrassing), like hold hands or go on an unchaperoned date. Jana should in theory be the best catch of the whole bunch, and not need any assistance in finding a courter, except her insane parents could scare a lot of guys off.

Edited November 7, 2014 by RazzleberryPie

[GEML]

^^^^ Agree to all of this.

And I would add that (somewhat creepily) what their "Prince charmings" look like. Derrick may look like what Jill "prayed for" (we know he's tall) and Jana may have "prayed for" someone very different looking.

I realize how bizarre that sounds typing it out, but given how complex and odd all of this is likely to be to us, that might have played a role too.

[RedheadZombie]

I don't think we can overlook the obvious - Jana stays because she knows what will happen to her siblings if she doesn't.  I also think she's pretty broken down and thinks this is her responsibility.  Now that Jill and Jessa are gone, that would leave dingaling Jinger holding the house together.  Michelle may like Josie more than most of her other babies, but it's probably Jana making sure she receives what therapy she gets.

 

 

Here's the thing -- at some point you have to let Jana be an autonomous person too.   She could, as Priscilla Duggar did, ask to go and work in Chicago. She could do a long term mission project. Even as closed as their society is, there ARE some options open to her that we know other girls her age have taken.

 

Jana has no idea of what autonomy is, and if she did, she would be told it was sinful.  I refuse to believe she's content merely because she hasn't left.  Jana's a little mouse - certainly not the type of personality who rebels and eschews everything they've ever learned or known.  It's over simplifying to suggest Jana could go to Chicago.  She would be scared to death of it, and there's no way JB and Michelle are letting the work horse escape.

Edited November 8, 2014 by RedheadZombie

[mbutterfly]

I don't think we can overlook the obvious - Jana stays because she knows what will happen to her siblings if she doesn't.  I also think she's pretty broken down and thinks this is her responsibility.  Now that Jill and Jessa are gone, that would leave dingaling Jinger holding the house together.  Michelle may like Josie more than most of her other babies, but it's probably Jana making sure she receives what therapy she gets.

 

 

Jana has no idea of what autonomy is, and if she did, she would be told it was sinful.  I refuse to believe she's content merely because she hasn't left.  Jana's a little mouse - certainly not the type of personality who rebels and eschews everything they've ever learned or known.  It's over simplifying to suggest Jana could go to Chicago.  She would be scared to death of it, and there's no way JB and Michelle are letting the work horse escape.

I do believe fear (more than in most) plays a part in decisions made by the adult Dugger children. 

[flyingdi]

Who does Jinger look like? She has a rather intense look about her that none of the others seem to have.

[BucFan]

Who does Jinger look like? She has a rather intense look about her that none of the others seem to have.

I think it's her eye make-up, the super raccoon look. In the older episodes, before the girls started wearing tons of make-up, she looked pretty much like the rest.

[GEML]

Well, all I can say is that hundreds of other young men and women have made this choice. Or not made it. But they knew they had a choice. I've spoken with at least two dozen personally myself, in situations not all that different from the one Jana is in. I think not respecting her as an autonomous adult only gives the Duggars more power, because it buys into the notion that they are in complete control. They aren't.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Who does Jinger look like? She has a rather intense look about her that none of the others seem to have.

 

I agree Jinger is different looking than the others and her heavy handed application of eye makeup enhances it.  

[BitterApple]

I think Jinger and Josh look just like Michelle. I agree that the heavy black eye-liner is what giver her a really intense expression.

[lottiedottie]

You know what's freaky? There are times during older episodes where Jinger looks like me--I'm sure if we put our pictures side by side, there would be no resemblance but there have been a few times where I did a double take.

[GEML]

I think Jinger also has dark brown eyes rather than blue like Michelle's or hazel green like Jim Bob. That, along with dark hair and brows (plus make up) makes her stand out.

[imsoconfused]

I feel really sad for Jana. She is used as a slave and does not feel happy.

 

I think she is reluctant to leave because not only has she been told it's a direct path to hell, etc (and may even not know where to go), but she doesn't want to leave her siblings. In fact I think seeing as they are basically her children, she is trapped because she knows they would be devastated and not looked after if she left. Potentially her parents are not finding a husband to keep her too.

 

But maybe she likes it there and doesn't want to go. I'm starting to think that's unlikely though. Many young adults live at home but 25 is starting to get out of young adult territory.

 

The other option is that she's waiting to get married specifically to have fewer children. Starting reproduction at 25 or 26 instead of 20 or 21 cuts down a lot of potential children. Given she has raised about 15 kids, she may be subconsciously or intentionally trying to make sure she never has more than 10. 

[WTFFF]

I think Jinger looks like Josh (so does Jenni), but I can never place what parent they look like.  I see some Michelle in them, but not a lot.  Maybe their features come from grandparents - I'd love to see what Michelle and JimBob's parents looked like over the years and see if there are any lookalikes there.  A couple of the Bates kids are spitting images of their grandparents.

[WTFFF]

With Jana, I think it's just as simple as the devil she knows being better than the devil she doesn't.  At least her life as it is now is familiar and she knows she can handle living it.  I don't think she's all that happy simply because she doesn't appear all that happy.  She used to smile fairly often and her eyes were bright.  Neither of those things is true now. 

[Spencer Hastings]

Who does Jinger look like? She has a rather intense look about her that none of the others seem to have.

She looks a lot like one of Michelle's nieces.  When Michelle's sister died, I creeped on some of her family through Facebook and there's a niece of Michelle's that looks just like Jinger and Michelle (with a short, stylish haircut).

[GEML]

One doesn't throw this out there lightly, but while we have talked about Michelle having some sort of mental illness, it's possible that Jana has anxiety or depression that is genetic and has very little to do with what she is doing or how she is living. Mental illness often becomes most acute in young adulthood.

Now this will bring up how mental illness is treated in a world like the Duggars, and even ten years ago I would have been a lot more certain that the answer would have been more "spiritual" and not medical. But that has been changing, and at this point, I wouldn't like to say one way or another, what the Duggars would do if any of their children needed mental health treatment.

[jb0495]

I can't remember which episode this was but I remember a TH with Jill & Jana. Jana on the left, Jil on the right and the producers asked if anyone else besides Jessa was courting and Jill said "not that we know of" while elbowing Jana and they both laughed. I definitely thought something was going on there...

[Julz]

I am holding on to the hope that Jana is holding off on courting anyone as long as she can. The older she is when she starts a courtship, the less fertile years she has left. I am hoping she is purposely waiting so by the time she marries, she will be pushing 30 and will wind up with 8 or 9 kids instead of 19.

[3girlsforus]

People are posting on the FB page that they should set up Jana with Tim Tebow. It has to be hard enough to know your parents are going to set up your marriage. But with the TV show Jana has to know that perfect strangers are contemplating who she should marry.

[Jellybeans]

But with the TV show Jana has to know that perfect strangers are contemplating who she should marry.

That has to be embarrassing. It is also condescending to Jana because it is implying she is incapable of finding a suitor IF she wants one.

[LegallyBlonde]

Well, at least Jana isn't being handed over to anyone. Who knows maybe there have been men that "daddy" thinks are the right ones and she turned him down.

Also, does Joy seem to have a very slight speech impediment?

I have wondered about that same thing regarding Joy. She does seem to have trouble pronouncing some words correctly. But she probably never received any help

[Chai]

I don't know if there is even a suiter involved. Maybe one day she will ask for her payout and we'll discover she's working as a waitress in a remote town, living alone. And likes it.

Everything is speculative at this point. I have a wait and see approach with her but in no way do I perceive her as lovelorn, unhappy, or stuck.

I think JB looks for a suitor only if his daughter desires one. Jill was quite eager.

Ill say she was eager.... judging by the way she threw her head back.... and jumped! at the kissing part of the ceremony! lol! hopefull they can laugh over it. I did. ;-)

[Chai]

People are posting on the FB page that they should set up Jana with Tim Tebow. It has to be hard enough to know your parents are going to set up your marriage. But with the TV show Jana has to know that perfect strangers are contemplating who she should marry.

I think they do think of that. So much so that Jessa didn't want to do her first kiss in front of everyone. I was so grossed out over the jb/m parents imitating the daughter/ son in law kiss. IMO its so much worse than that one kiss at the altar would have been. They are so full it..... where was ANY modesty then?

[GEML]

People are posting on the FB page that they should set up Jana with Tim Tebow. It has to be hard enough to know your parents are going to set up your marriage. But with the TV show Jana has to know that perfect strangers are contemplating who she should marry.

This is why I get frustrated with people talking about religion.  Yes, they know of two people in the known world who have these things in common:  They are religious, they were homeschooled, and they plan to be abstinent until marriage.  But that doesn't mean they have anything else in common as human beings.  By making suggestions like this, we essentially play the role of Jim Bob, arranging marriages and thinking we know what Jana (and Tim Tebow) would like, more than they would.

[3girlsforus]

This is why I get frustrated with people talking about religion.  Yes, they know of two people in the known world who have these things in common:  They are religious, they were homeschooled, and they plan to be abstinent until marriage.  But that doesn't mean they have anything else in common as human beings.  By making suggestions like this, we essentially play the role of Jim Bob, arranging marriages and thinking we know what Jana (and Tim Tebow) would like, more than they would.

 

Yep - it's very frustrating. For example, my oldest is religious, homeschooled and plans to abstain until marriage. I can guarantee she would NOT be a good match for any Duggar male. 

 

 

Edited to add... I'm not completely sure Jim Bob knows his daughters a whole lot better than the 'general public'. He doesn't exactly give them a lot of room to be themselves in front of him. 

Edited November 12, 2014 by 3girlsforus

[PityFree]

People are posting on the FB page that they should set up Jana with Tim Tebow. It has to be hard enough to know your parents are going to set up your marriage. But with the TV show Jana has to know that perfect strangers are contemplating who she should marry.

Sadly, I think Tim would not be happy married to someone who was so unsophisticated and sheltered, no matter how nice Jana may be. What on earth would they talk about?? He is an educated man who has non-religious friends and associates. He is not nearly as sheltered as Jana. He hasn't been hidden away from the "evil, secular world" like Jana has been. 

[GEML]

Culturally, the Tebows are miles away from the Duggars.  They aren't "barefoot and backyard people."

[3girlsforus]

Miles enough away that I don't think JB would consider Tim a suitable suitor. 

[Portia]

But it is kind of fun to imagine what a Tim Tebow proposal would look like, right? 

[jb0495]

Well, we know he knows how to get down on bended knee since he is proficient in "tebowing" LOL!

[Portia]

Well, we know he knows how to get down on bended knee since he is proficient in "tebowing" LOL!

That 's what I was getting at . . . but apparently I undersold my joke!  ;-)

[NausetGirl]

I think Jana has been parentfied so much that she doesn't want kids of her own. She already raised kids, why raise more kids when she doesn't have to. Maybe Jana does want to get out but doesn't know how. Or does want to get married, but marriage brings babies. Maybe she wants to travel and find herself.

 

This theory could work. I have a friend whose mom was 17 when she was born, just after WWII ended. Then there were 7 more kids, all about 2 years apart. The last baby came when Carol was 14. She ended up being Mommy's helper of course, but nothing like the Duggar sister-moms. She really was just a helper. She loved playing with her little sibs, feeding them, giving them bedtime baths, reading to them. But she's never had kids of her own even though married twice. She says she never had a wild desire to have her own babies and thinks it may be due to the fact that she did her "mothering" with her sibs.

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

The tension between Jana and Jessa is too intense. I cringed at every interaction between the two in Jessa's VSE. I really hope Jana is close with Jinger and/or Joy-Anna (I think maybe Joy is closer to her, but that could just be because they now share THs together).