The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

[Guest]

If it means that Lawson stays away from Jana, I'm cool with a Lawson/Jinger pairing. 

[JenCarroll]

Maybe Lawson is courting Joseph. That'd be cool.

[Guest]

Maybe Lawson is courting Joseph. That'd be cool.

 

Well, that would explain why Joseph was allowed to attend Crown College in TN.

[kokapetl]

Do we know what Joseph did before he went to Clown College? I remember him assembling a crib for Anna once, and that's about it.

[Guest]

Do we know what Joseph did before he went to Clown College? I remember him assembling a crib for Anna once, and that's about it.

 

All I know about Joseph is that he is "a man of few words" according to Michelle, he took professional flying lessons like John David, he attended Alert where he received an award for his "scripture memory," and he appears to be very close with Jinger. Thaaat's about it. 

[CofCinci]

All I know about Joseph is that he is "a man of few words" according to Michelle, he took professional flying lessons like John David, he attended Alert where he received an award for his "scripture memory," and he appears to be very close with Jinger. Thaaat's about it.

That's probably more than Michelle knows.

[Tabbygirl521]

All I know about Joseph is that he is "a man of few words" according to Michelle, he took professional flying lessons like John David, he attended Alert where he received an award for his "scripture memory," and he appears to be very close with Jinger. Thaaat's about it.

I find this intriguing. Is he a seething mass of resentment who dares not speak, lest he offend and be returned to ALERT? Is he secretly plotting to get the plane away from John David so he can Free Jinger, and himself, too? Here's hoping.

[JoanArc]

That's probably more than Michelle knows.

"He's the one with the receding hairline, right?" - Michelle

[sometimesy]

It would give me the warm and fuzzies if the rest of the adults married outside of the cult. Not a Bin or Derrick, but someone even more mainstream than that. Marrying a Bates just keeps the next generation in Gothard homeschooling, isolation trap. How they would meet this person is the question.

[zenme]

I like a Jinger and Ben pairing, but the only way I'd "give my approval" (as if the Duggars are pounding on my door asking), would be that if Jinger moved to Tennessee.  Lawson is pretty competent, and confident.  He's got his own little business, and he's apparently doing well with it.  He also has aspirations for a singing career.  He needs to stay out of Arkansas to keep out of JimBob's clutches.  Plus, in Tennessee Jinger could loosen up.

[kandinski]

Sorry to be blunt,but which of the Bates sons is the camp one again?

[Guest]

The Duggars posted birthday messages to Michelle on their Official FB page.

 

Jana's birthday message to her mom: "We're so grateful for you. You are my hero in life and I hope to be like you someday."

 

This is why I find Jana fascinating. Her words say, "You are my hero in life and I hope to be like you someday," but her actions say, "Nope. Nope. Nope. I don't want to get married and birth 19 children," or else she would already be married with four kids by now, like Anna who is her age.

 

I would love to know what is really going on inside Jana's perfectly coiffed head. 

[CofCinci]

I hope to be like you someday is their double speak for "gee, I wish I could be lazy like you but I've got your children to raise."

[Julia]

The Duggars posted birthday messages to Michelle on their Official FB page.

 

Jana's birthday message to her mom: "We're so grateful for you. You are my hero in life and I hope to be like you someday."

 

This is why I find Jana fascinating. Her words say, "You are my hero in life and I hope to be like you someday," but her actions say, "Nope. Nope. Nope. I don't want to get married and birth 19 children," or else she would already be married with four kids by now, like Anna who is her age.

 

I would love to know what is really going on inside Jana's perfectly coiffed head. 

I hope to be like you someday is their double speak for "gee, I wish I could be lazy like you but I've got your children to raise."

 

I really would like both of these twice.

[3girlsforus]

The Duggars posted birthday messages to Michelle on their Official FB page.

 

Jana's birthday message to her mom: "We're so grateful for you. You are my hero in life and I hope to be like you someday."

 

This is why I find Jana fascinating. Her words say, "You are my hero in life and I hope to be like you someday," but her actions say, "Nope. Nope. Nope. I don't want to get married and birth 19 children," or else she would already be married with four kids by now, like Anna who is her age.

 

I would love to know what is really going on inside Jana's perfectly coiffed head. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if she thinks she hopes to be like Michele and doesn't see that her resistance to marriage and a billion kids is because she really doesn't want that. She may very well think that she just isn't good enough or is doing something wrong because she hasn't been "blessed" with a successful courtship and kids. 

[Churchhoney]

I wouldn't be surprised if she thinks she hopes to be like Michele and doesn't see that her resistance to marriage and a billion kids is because she really doesn't want that. She may very well think that she just isn't good enough or is doing something wrong because she hasn't been "blessed" with a successful courtship and kids. 

 

Wouldn't surprise me either. I'm sure the Duggar kids have been carefully and constantly taught to ignore all their own feelings, perceptions and thoughts in favor of the prescribed "family values" that come down from on high. "Resisting a quarter century of continual childbearing because 'duh'" isn't on the list of approved Duggar facts but "having committed an unknown sin that bars me from receiving the multitude of blessings God bestowed on sainted Michelle's vagina" definitely would be.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Defrauder]

Michelle doesn't give a shit about Jana.  As long as there are so many mouths to feed, Jana the family cook, isn't going anywhere.  Jessa didn't cook so she was allowed to marry.  Jill was good for the show going overseas so she was allowed to marry for ratings purposes.  If Jana is lucky the howlers will start marrying off in droves, Jana's motherly duties will lessen, Joy Anna will become the next family chef and Jana will be allowed to marry as long as it makes JB & Michelle look good. In the meantime Michelle isn't about to lose her number 1 slave.  It's also no coincidence in my opinion that the first girls that were allowed to marry have dark hair like Michelle and I think she favors them because of that.  

[cmr2014]

The Duggars posted birthday messages to Michelle on their Official FB page.

 

Jana's birthday message to her mom: "We're so grateful for you. You are my hero in life and I hope to be like you someday."

 

This is why I find Jana fascinating. Her words say, "You are my hero in life and I hope to be like you someday," but her actions say, "Nope. Nope. Nope. I don't want to get married and birth 19 children," or else she would already be married with four kids by now, like Anna who is her age.

 

I would love to know what is really going on inside Jana's perfectly coiffed head. 

 

I recall conversations in the past suggesting that J'chelle doesn't much like Jana.

 

If that's true, I think a lot of her behavior might be an immature daughter desperately seeking her mother's approval. It seems that Jana has finally learned to just "keep sweet" and not open her mouth and say anything to J'chelle. The over-the-top birthday message probably has nothing to do with how Jana feels (if she is still capable of feeling anything), but more to do with what she knows her mother wants to hear.

[flyingdi]

They say alll narcissists have one child who is the golden child and one who is the scapegoat. If Michelle is truly a narcissist then Jana is definitely the scapegoat.

Edited September 16, 2015 by flyingdi

[louannems]

I love to watch Victorian era movies. Jana, to me, looks like one of those women! Very beautiful, very pale, very thin, very fragile, with an extremely sedatary persona.

[Guest]

I love to watch Victorian era movies. Jana, to me, looks like one of those women! Very beautiful, very pale, very thin, very fragile, with an extremely sedatary persona.

 

I agree, but I think her outward fragility is a symptom of the fact that her personality-type shirks from the limelight.

 

JB and M have stated that she is actually very chatty in private. However, I think Jana is very shy, awkward, and self-conscious in public around non-family members due to poor socialization, so she withdraws inside herself a little bit when placed in these types of situations, such as on-camera, book signings, political events, etc.

 

Personally, I think a large component of why Jana isn't married comes right down to poor socialization. Her sisters have different personalities, so the poor socialization wasn't an insurmountable stumbling block for them. However, I think Jana feels the effects of it much more deeply. I imagine that if a man approached her, she would be flustered and embarrassed, pink-faced, and have no idea how to talk with him. I think she would want to run away and leave the conversation -- not because she wash't interested in him, but because the crush of shy, awkward, self-conscious feelings would make the experience of talking to a man highly uncomfortable, if not downright unpleasant for her. I am guessing that she has never made it past this initial stage of discomfort with a man -- or worse, she only made it past this initial stage with someone special who was then not acceptable to JB. (See the episode "Duggars, Dates, and Dan." IMHO, that episode holds some some pretty damning evidence that Jana did have someone special in the past who JB nixed after the guy pursued Jana without speaking to JB first.)

 

Therefore, when Jana says that she is content to wait right now, I believe her. Not because she doesn't want to be married or have children right now. I think she actually does want these things...

 

I believe Jana is content to wait because she experiences a lot of anxiety surrounding the social aspect of finding a potential mate and being forced to do it in the public eye just makes everything 100x worse. Or maybe, just maybe, she is still pining for The One who JB turned away. 

 

We'll probably never know the truth. :-/

Edited September 16, 2015 by Guest

[flyingdi]

I think Michelle seems to prefer her outspoken children, Josh, Jessa, Josie. She probably associates quiet with sneaky ala Jana. She may be does not realize the outspoken ones can be sneaky too. I have no doubt the first three kids can be sneakier than hell to get what they want, they just aren't afraid to ask for it outright too. We practically have proof of this with Josh.

I think she also equates Jill as being not only a sneak but a spy too. Jill may be one of her daddy's favorites but I will never believe she is one of Mom's.

I think Jim Bob is the opposite of Michelle here. If a child is overly outspoken he's plainly not trusting that daddy is taking care of everything. My example for this would be Josiah.

Edited September 16, 2015 by flyingdi

[GeeGolly]

I think Michelle connects with the outspoken children because she is forced to. The quiet ones, who stay to themselves, are left to do just that.

 

I think JB favors Jill because that is how he imagined Michelle would be as a mom & wife. Not in a creepy way, more in that Jill genuinely loves her buddies in a very natural way, and didn't shy away from "woman's work". Sadly, though many of you disagree, with the exception of her teen crush on Derick, I think Jill is one of the more mature one's , even with her naivete. 

Edited September 16, 2015 by GeeGolly

[Guest]

I think Michelle connects with the outspoken children because she is forced to. The quiet ones, who stay to themselves, are left to do just that.

 

Yes. I wanted to punch my TV when Jill laughingly dismissed Jenny, saying, "Oh, she doesn't talk much," as if it's normal for a 7/8-year-old girl to be solemn and practically mute. 

Edited September 16, 2015 by Guest

[Defrauder]

I still think Mechelle just doesn't like blonde girls/women even if they are her own daughters.

[flyingdi]

Which ones are blonde besides Jenny(I think)? I thought they all or most had brown hair.

[flyingdi]

I think Michelle connects with the outspoken children because she is forced to. The quiet ones, who stay to themselves, are left to do just that.

 

I think JB favors Jill because that is how he imagined Michelle would be as a mom & wife. Not in a creepy way, more in that Jill genuinely loves her buddies in a very natural way, and didn't shy away from "woman's work". Sadly, though many of you disagree, with the exception of her teen crush on Derick, I think Jill is one of the more mature one's , even with her naivete.

I don't dislike Jill but I always thought Jim Bob liked her because she was the most like Jim Bob. Also, out of all his kids, I think Jill is a true believer.

[Guest]

I never got the impression that Michelle was very close with any of her children besides Josh and Josie -- the Golden Child and the Miracle Baby.

 

As for JB, I think he does favor the obedient ones like Jill. 

Edited September 16, 2015 by Guest

[zenme]

I think their family could have that dynamic where the first born daughter struggles with the mom.  I think Josh is one of Michelle's favorites--even with sexual problems.  It's all women's fault and their temptation with immodest dress in their world, after all.  I think Josh was a favorite of Jimbo's, but no longer.  I think he adores all his girls, but Jana and Jill could be his favorites, and of course Miracle Josie.  I think Jimbo also struggles with Josiah and Jackson.  I think Josie and Jessa are Michelle's favorite girls, but is "ho hum" about the rest of the girls.  

Edited September 16, 2015 by zenme

[flyingdi]

I do think it's sad that Michelle only seems to like 2 or 3 of her children. Some like Jana she seems to out right dislike. John David, she seems kind of afraid of for some reason but the vast majority of her kids she seems to just feel eh about. Like " Well, they're there, I guess."

Jim Bob, at least, actually seems to like kids even if he is oddly competitive with them.

[Defrauder]

Which ones are blonde besides Jenny(I think)? I thought they all or most had brown hair.

If you compare Mechelle's hair to Jana's, Jordyn's, Jenny's, Johanna's, Joy-Anna's  and Josie's hair Mechelle's hair is much darker like Jessa, Jill, and Jinger.  Jana, Jordyn, Jenny, Johanna and Joy-Anna have more of JB's hair and looks.  I think Mechelle favors the darker haired girls because she has darker hair.  Except Josie gets away with the lighter hair because it's curlier like Mechelle's.

[3girlsforus]

Am I think only one who after all of these years still can't read Jinger's name properly in my head? I know it's Ginger. But in my head as I'm reading posts I always say 'Jinger' - as you would if the first syllable rhymes with sing. Poor girl. What a horrible thing to do to a person. 

[kokapetl]

Yeah she's hard g Jing-ah to me.

[Liz Tudor]

Swell. Now I have "Jinger Bells" in my head. Way to rush the season, PTV friends. :-D

[Guest]

Am I think only one who after all of these years still can't read Jinger's name properly in my head? I know it's Ginger. But in my head as I'm reading posts I always say 'Jinger' - as you would if the first syllable rhymes with sing. Poor girl. What a horrible thing to do to a person. 

 

I accidentally spelled gingerbread as "Jinger Bread" a few months ago thanks to the Duggar's influence, so I feel you. The spelling messes with your head.

[MamaMax]

Perhaps Jana isn't married because she was traumitized by being sexually abused. And never getting therapy, and being forced to forgive her abuser. And being taught by her religion that she is chewed up gum, a cup full of spit and/or a broken bicycle. You think?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2015/05/22/the-duggars-dangerous-cult-of-purity/

Edited September 17, 2015 by MamaMax

[floridamom]

MamaMax: Jana wasn't one of the four sisters molested by Josh. She doesn't have that justification to use as to why she's "still not married at almost 26 years old".

The other older 4 sisters, we believe, were the family victims of Josh, and of course, the "family friend,babysitter".

With that "cult of purity" mindset that they have, is Josh the "cup of spit" that Anna got? How is it only good for "the girl" and not the guy?

I wonder if Derick and Ben thought that they also got the broken up bicycle and cup of spit on their wedding day? I'd like to hear from them about those beliefs and how they translate to their wives' situations. (Of course, I don't blame those girls one bit for what happened to them, but I'd like to know how they are perceived in their belief system, and their alilke peers.)

[PityFree]

Jana could have been abused by someone other than Josh.

[CofCinci]

Jana could have been abused by someone other than Josh.

Gothard.

[GeeGolly]

Gothard.

Yehp and to Jana, when she helped out at JTTH, was young & impressionable and Gothard was probably the closest thing to God to her. Scary bad.

[floridamom]

You know what? I never thought about someone else and Jana. It's too sad for me to think about, I guess. Something like that shouldn't happen to anyone. I hope it's not the case with her.

[Chai]

Thank you all for answering. Poor kid. I feel for all of the kids but Josiah has always tugged on my heart when I've seen him on the show, especially after they announced the last pregnancy and he was visibly upset.

Upset, then abused by his father off camera.

That and the mother of the year doing NOTHING. Her own child is hysterical for her health! I cannot believe i am saying one positive word for Josh, but i saw the look on his face when his father told him. He isnt an actor and that look told me he knew they were in dire straights.

[GeeGolly]

That and the mother of the year doing NOTHING. Her own child is hysterical for her health! I cannot believe i am saying one positive word for Josh, but i saw the look on his face when his father told him. He isnt an actor and that look told me he knew they were in dire straights.

I've looked for that on YouTube, but have never found it. Did they cut that part out?

[JenCarroll]

I've looked for that on YouTube, but have never found it. Did they cut that part out?

Yes they did. You can see the announcement being made and Josiah starting to move, then it cuts forward in time and Josiah is back, being firmly held in place by Jim Bob. But they seem to have cut out the worst of it.

[MamaMax]

MamaMax: Jana wasn't one of the four sisters molested by Josh. She doesn't have that justification to use as to why she's "still not married at almost 26 years old".

The other older 4 sisters, we believe, were the family victims of Josh, and of course, the "family friend,babysitter".

With that "cult of purity" mindset that they have, is Josh the "cup of spit" that Anna got? How is it only good for "the girl" and not the guy?

I wonder if Derick and Ben thought that they also got the broken up bicycle and cup of spit on their wedding day? I'd like to hear from them about those beliefs and how they translate to their wives' situations. (Of course, I don't blame those girls one bit for what happened to them, but I'd like to know how they are perceived in their belief system, and their alilke peers.)

Oh, I didn't realize. I thought 3 of his victims were the 3 oldest sisters.  Sorry

Edited September 17, 2015 by MamaMax

[Julia]

MamaMax: Jana wasn't one of the four sisters molested by Josh. She doesn't have that justification to use as to why she's "still not married at almost 26 years old".

The other older 4 sisters, we believe, were the family victims of Josh, and of course, the "family friend,babysitter".

With that "cult of purity" mindset that they have, is Josh the "cup of spit" that Anna got? How is it only good for "the girl" and not the guy?

I wonder if Derick and Ben thought that they also got the broken up bicycle and cup of spit on their wedding day? I'd like to hear from them about those beliefs and how they translate to their wives' situations. (Of course, I don't blame those girls one bit for what happened to them, but I'd like to know how they are perceived in their belief system, and their alilke peers.)

 

If you think about it, the sick view of 'soiled' women they were taught probably explains a lot about why Jessa and Jill are so insistent that what happened was nothing. Which is probably why Jim Bob and Michelle taught it to them.

[Wellfleet]

I think their family could have that dynamic where the first born daughter struggles with the mom.  I think Josh is one of Michelle's favorites--even with sexual problems.  It's all women's fault and their temptation with immodest dress in their world, after all.  I think Josh was a favorite of Jimbo's, but no longer.  I think he adores all his girls, but Jana and Jill could be his favorites, and of course Miracle Josie.  I think Jimbo also struggles with Josiah and Jackson.  I think Josie and Jessa are Michelle's favorite girls, but is "ho hum" about the rest of the girls.  

 

I think Boob is very competitive with his boys - with all males really - and in just about any situation.  As long as he keeps winning, he's OK, but I don't think it's a good day for the boys if they ever beat Daddy in any particular contest. I think Josiah must have creamed Boob once at something, because it seems like he's been in JB's doghouse for a LONG time. When it comes to the girls, Boob is partial to the ones who best display the kind of Gothardesque demeanor that only good [fundie] Christian women have. Meek. humble, quiet, respectful, totally enthusiastic-for and obedient-to whatever Hubby wants, attractive if not outright beautiful, domestically-skilled and very fertile. My Dad always said the first kid is like the first pancake on the griddle. Basically OK but more often than not lopsided, and a little squirrelly around the edges. With Jana being the oldest girl, there was no one to show her "how Daddy wants us to be," because we certainly know Me-chelle was well into the baby-a-year plan by the time Jana was a toddler. So Jana, as any very young child would, acted on her own natural instincts and impulses. And we know those wouldn't have lined up with the Gothard/Boob way. At all. Jill, Jessa, Jinger made out much better because they had the benefit of Jana's experience. Bottom line, IMO Jana was probably a little too much of an independent little spirit for Boob - and yes, too "normal" for him. And I think it affects their relationship to this day. For as long as I've been watching, Boob seems ill-at-ease and guarded around Jana, even as he manages to wear that Howdy Duggar smile of his.

[frenchtoast]

Folks, we know very little about Jana, and it's a lot of fun to wonder and speculate. But we already know that there was abuse in that house, speculating about more and from different molesters is making the topic a bit uncomfortable. Can we try to keep away from speculating that Jana was abused? Also, as for the two other victims, unless they self-identify, we're keeping the spirit of the redaction and allowing them that privacy. 

[Joe Jitsu913]

I get the impression that Jana is viewed by Jim Bob as Michelle's personal assistant or employee. There's no real warmth or affection there. I also get the feeling that if Jana were to leave, the house would fall apart. Michelle isn't getting off her lazy ass to do shit. In a lot of ways, Jana is running the show. Boob and Mullet are just figureheads who make an appearance or two by waving to their peasants (aka the Duggar children) and then retreating back to their bedroom.

[Julia]

I think Boob is very competitive with his boys - with all males really - and in just about any situation.  As long as he keeps winning, he's OK, but I don't think it's a good day for the boys if they ever beat Daddy in any particular contest. I think Josiah must have creamed Boob once at something, because it seems like he's been in JB's doghouse for a LONG time. When it comes to the girls, Boob is partial to the ones who best display the kind of Gothardesque demeanor that only good [fundie] Christian women have. Meek. humble, quiet, respectful, totally enthusiastic-for and obedient-to whatever Hubby wants, attractive if not outright beautiful, domestically-skilled and very fertile. My Dad always said the first kid is like the first pancake on the griddle. Basically OK but more often than not lopsided, and a little squirrelly around the edges. With Jana being the oldest girl, there was no one to show her "how Daddy wants us to be," because we certainly know Me-chelle was well into the baby-a-year plan by the time Jana was a toddler. So Jana, as any very young child would, acted on her own natural instincts and impulses. And we know those wouldn't have lined up with the Gothard/Boob way. At all. Jill, Jessa, Jinger made out much better because they had the benefit of Jana's experience. Bottom line, IMO Jana was probably a little too much of an independent little spirit for Boob - and yes, too "normal" for him. And I think it affects their relationship to this day. For as long as I've been watching, Boob seems ill-at-ease and guarded around Jana, even as he manages to wear that Howdy Duggar smile of his.

 

And the irony is, after beating the Jim Bobishness out of nineteen kids (or, eighteen and what's left of Josh), he ended up nourishing Cousin Amy unto his bosom. Because she strikes me as the one person in the next generation who displays his signature combination of laziness, relentless self-aggrandisement, taking advantage of the piety of others, and constantly calling attention to how he rolls like a baller. 

Edited September 17, 2015 by Julia