The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

[Mrsjumbo]

I think Jana has a "poor me vibe" and I am tired of it. She is old enough to do what she wants.

And, she IS doing what she wants which is doing NOTHING for herself.

See, I get it. My mother was similar in that she thought a woman's place was in the home, never discussed college with me or even a career. After graduating from high school (with honors), my mom made me feel very useful around the house, driving my sister to her physical therapy, etc.

I didn't "wake up" until a friend that was at college sent me a letter asking me if that was all I fid all day, taking my sister to therapy. I took my savings & enrolled at a local college & after getting a 1 yr certificate & a job, moved out of there.

My older sister is still living at home, driving my mom around. She held a job for a short time & had an apartment, but mom was not adverse to her moving back home. That was 20+ yrs ago!

It really is hard to break away when you hear your mother telling you that this is best.

[GEML]

Yes, I get that. As I've said, I've known a lot a young women in this world.

But none of them were on TLC.

[Chai]

 

I think Jana has a "poor me vibe" and I am tired of it. She is old enough to do what she wants.

And, she IS doing what she wants which is doing NOTHING for herself.

How can she do anything? Every time she speaks up they send her right back to Journey to the Heart to be 'reprogrammed" again. 

[GEML]

Journey to the Heart is actually the only thing I've seen her do with any enthusiasm. But that's my perspective.

[Chai]

Journey to the Heart is actually the only thing I've seen her do with any enthusiasm. But that's my perspective.

I have never seen her there. Where was it shown I would like to see it? TIA

[3girlsforus]

Interesting. I see the TV show as another added pressure on the girls to either stay and comply or get married. That's the story like Michelle and JB want to sell - 'We are good Christians and we protect our girls until they are happily wed to someone we picked out for them.' A storyline of 'Mom I really want to move out on my own an be an independent woman' or 'Mom I need an education so I can get a job and not need a man' would be great from our perspective but isn't the story Ma and Pa Duggar are wanting to portray. So going against their "perfect design" would mess with the TLC image as well. The girls are only a more valued commodity if they are towing the party line. Some have suggested that Jessa was married off quickly to head off any potential veering off the set path. If that's true Jana may also fear getting forced into a courtship if she starts wanting things that are unapproved.

[Barb23]

How true. We know how upset Boob was when Josh & Anna moved to DC. Boob knew he wouldn't have (as much) control over Josh in DC, but it also took away from the family dynamics.

[StaceyNotStacie]

http://www.fashionnstyle.com/articles/41431/20150117/jana-duggars-terror-19-kids-and-counting-star-terrified-shell-live-life-alone-after-spending-her-days-as-a-surrogate-parent-to-siblings.htm

 

Interesting article about Jana.

[NikSac]

http://www.fashionnstyle.com/articles/41431/20150117/jana-duggars-terror-19-kids-and-counting-star-terrified-shell-live-life-alone-after-spending-her-days-as-a-surrogate-parent-to-siblings.htm

 

Interesting article about Jana.

 

Yeah it was interesting. Thanks for posting. I think the comments were even more interesting. It cracks me up how a handful of people are saying that it's just normal chores and it's part of being a family. Funny how the kids with penises don't have nearly as many daily chores and responsibilities. I wish we 'knew' Jana better... for that matter I wish she knew herself better. Maybe she does and just doesn't show it on tv, but I feel like she's just so limited.

[GEML]

I notice again she's defined first by her looks. (Which ARE lovely, but I can't help but wonder if we would be obsessed with "will she or won't she court?" if she weren't so attractive.

And I agree that she's limited. But I'm no longer knee jerk convinced that it's on account of her parents. She may just be limited because of who she is as a person and we have missed it because it's so easy to blame her parents - who are certainly blame worthy for plenty - including the odious "raise all of our children" on their older daughters. It's just that those same unrealistic expectations didn't seem to limit the other daughters in the same way they did Jana.

[MJDai]

I absolutely agree that Jana's looks play a part in how we think of her. Sad but true, that is part of the human condition. I also think that we react to Jana as being a victim far more than her sisters is because she paints herself as such. Meekly saying: "I don't know why no one else is sewing" will be taken by a lot of people as: "I'm afraid to speak up for myself." Because she is pretty and meek and introverted yet charismatic, we all flock to her and metaphorically pat her on the head and say: Not your fault." If she was uglier, or abrasive or annoying I think we would collectivelly be telling her to get a grip. But alas, she is and the wearing of her victimhood badge is somehow or other working for her.

I think she differs from her sisters not because she was treated diffrently, I for one just don't know how much of that is true, I think she experiences things differently (every sibling does) and doesn't know how to, doesn't want to, or doesn't think she can change like they have done.

[trimthatfat]

Jana is attractive, but think on the average street in a major city, no one would look twice at her. In the fundie circles, she is attractive because she dresses modernly and doesn't favor crunchy curls as a hairdo. I honestly think her looks are hyped up because of that.

 

I have to say that after a lot of thought, I don't think of Jana is a victim. There are young women in far more unsavory circumstances who have managed to break out of the restraints of their life and become something. I never noticed any particular drive with Jana and I'm not convinced that if she did have drive at one point that it   was beaten out of her. I have noted that she does look sad/over it at times, but maybe she's not. At this point in her life with the regular travel to DC and abroad, she has likely been exposed to different people/communities. She's not a sheltered child.

Edited January 20, 2015 by trimthatfat

[Wellfleet]

I absolutely agree that Jana's looks play a part in how we think of her. Sad but true, that is part of the human condition. I also think that we react to Jana as being a victim far more than her sisters is because she paints herself as such. Meekly saying: "I don't know why no one else is sewing" will be taken by a lot of people as: "I'm afraid to speak up for myself." Because she is pretty and meek and introverted yet charismatic, we all flock to her and metaphorically pat her on the head and say: Not your fault." If she was uglier, or abrasive or annoying I think we would collectivelly be telling her to get a grip. But alas, she is and the wearing of her victimhood badge is somehow or other working for her.

I think she differs from her sisters not because she was treated diffrently, I for one just don't know how much of that is true, I think she experiences things differently (every sibling does) and doesn't know how to, doesn't want to, or doesn't think she can change like they have done.

 

Agree with this. Jana's physical appearance makes her much more sympathetic to people. Same reason - IMO - that Princess Diana was so beloved. She was pretty. If she'd been plain, people would have been saying that she knew she was doing when she married Charles, would have been expecting her to carry on, buck up etc.

[floridamom]

Did anyone see the article about Jana and her suitors? It states that Jim Bob has done his darnedest bringing every potential suitor he hears from to Jana and that she has rejected all of them without even "saying hi". She states that she is fussy and is only interested in the "real deal." Could our sweet Jana not be so sweet after all? I understand her not going gaga over every inquiry, but maybe she's carrying this too far.

[bigskygirl]

Was she offered Derick and turn him down? Maybe she is scared of ending up with someone like JB, Josh, or John David.

[3girlsforus]

Did anyone see the article about Jana and her suitors? It states that Jim Bob has done his darnedest bringing every potential suitor he hears from to Jana and that she has rejected all of them without even "saying hi". She states that she is fussy and is only interested in the "real deal." Could our sweet Jana not be so sweet after all? I understand her not going gaga over every inquiry, but maybe she's carrying this too far.

If that is the case I wouldn't call it carrying it too far... I'd call it excellent news. If you are going to spend the rest of your life with someone you want to be fussy and only interested in the real deal, not just taking the guy Daddy picks for her. If she really is turning them down left and right maybe she's hoping she can actually meet a guy herself. 

[GEML]

I'm betting JB offered Derick to Jana, when he is clearly a better fit for Jill - not only in retrospect, but because of her energy and active desire to learn new things, her desire to do missions, wanting to learn another language, and out of all the older daughters she had the most thoughtful heart for real people, such as remembering people year after year in Honduras. It's easy to see why Derick, studying for an MDiv in missions would find that attractive. Jana has none of those same qualities, although she had similar opportunities to express them.

What Jana DOES have is a kind heart to her sisters, and if this happened she will NEVER tell.

Edited January 25, 2015 by GEML

[Hpmec]

I think the reason why Jana hasn't entered into a courtship is that she's already had her fill of raising children. If I spent the better part of my own childhood, teénage, and young adult years being mother to my mother's ridiculously large brood, the last thing I would want would be to start over with a bunch of my own. In her world, courtship is expected to lead to marriage and marriage to lots of babies.

If she seems depressed, perhaps it's because her options are so limited and she knows it. She can stay home and continue to raise the littles and help with her siblings' kids or she can get married and raise her own. Maybe in her mind that's a lose-lose. As I've commented before, it sucks to be a Duggar.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Hpmec

[Barb23]

Hpmec - I love your line "it sucks to be a Duggar". We ought to rename the Kids thread this.

[Hpmec]

Barb23, thanks for the compliment. Having Boob and Mullet as parents and overlords. Having Boob pick a potential mate and then not being given the freedom to spend one second alone until after the I Do's. Being forced to be homeschooled using a Gothard-approved "curriculum." Sharing living space in huge dormitory rooms where there's no privacy. Being served crap like tater tot casserole. Not being able to hang with friends of your own choosing who don't subscribe to your family's beliefs. Being told what clothes you can wear and how you can wear your hair, whether you are 5 or 25. I could go on and on. Yes, it truly and completely does suck to be a Duggar.

[dillpickles]

I agree with the people who say Jana is avoiding marriage and courtships because she doesn't want kids, but I also think she just doesn't like people too much.

I think she has a harder time doing things like meeting new people then someone as outgoing as Jill, for example. I think if she wasn't the oldest girl and didn't get the spunk beat out of her she'd be more like Jessa.

[kassygreene]

I think perhaps she doesn't like her father's taste in sons-in-law.

[ginger90]

 I just hope she gets or is getting (doubtful) what she needs. And perhaps that does not include a husband.

[WTFFF]

Did anyone see the article about Jana and her suitors? It states that Jim Bob has done his darnedest bringing every potential suitor he hears from to Jana and that she has rejected all of them without even "saying hi". She states that she is fussy and is only interested in the "real deal." Could our sweet Jana not be so sweet after all? I understand her not going gaga over every inquiry, but maybe she's carrying this too far.

 

I know that site - they take an offhand viewer comment and turn it into a "fact"-based "article."  The whole thing was probably built around someone here saying that they thought JB probably offered Derick to Jill first.  I wouldn't take it too seriously. 

 

That said, if she doesn't want to get married and is sticking to her guns, I'm impressed.  Didn't think she had it in her.

Edited January 26, 2015 by WTFFF

[brewerrkj]

I liked seeing Jinger taking pictures in the previous episode. I wonder if she doesn't get married in the next couple of years, whether or not she'd be allowed to pursue a career in photography..even if she took pics at fundie weddings, or baby pics, she could definitely make a living if she was given the chance to do so. I do hope someday she gets that chance, and also when she does marry, that she'll find a guy who will move her into the city of her dreams and away from her controlling parents. 

The only probem with that is the only "career" the Duggar girls are really allowed to pursue is "baby log flume."

[brewerrkj]

Is anyone else cringing at Mackynzie walking across a parking lot with absolutely no adult supervision?  Jinger and Anna are pretty far ahead of her and not even looking at her.  She's still so small - it would be easy for a careless driver to not see her.  Granted, I'm a bit of a worrywart in general. 

Yep, I cringed.  Then again, very soon now Mac, who is going to be 6 in October, will expected to start "Buddying" for Anna's "little ones"  so they probably already expect her to be able to pretty much fend for herself!

 

Edited January 31, 2015 by brewerrkj

[floridamom]

Re: the photo of Mac lagging behind Jinger and Anna. Yes, I cringed also at that. It seemed irresponsible of both of those "adult women" to not be watching Mac. If that kid receives that kind of "protection" when crossing a street or in a parking lot, I can imagine how she is left to herself at home, etc..I also agree if Anna can't manage the 3 she already has BY HERSELF, maybe she needs to reconsider the baby train and deem M#4 the caboose. It also isn't fair to Jana, Jinger or Joy, (who will be stepping up to the nanny role) to have to routinely fly to DC and "help out". Anna, IMO, lives in her own Fundy Fantasyland about what real life is about. Josh, on the other hand, needs to make HIS wishes known and implemented in that household, after all, it is his financial responsibility to provide; therefore, Anna needs to defer to him, isn't that the fundy way in the first place? How is it that Michelle and Anna get what THEY want when they trumpet how the man is the leader and makes all of the decisions? I see a conflict here.

[floridamom]

If Jana doesn't want to get married ever, she should cut out the crap and just say so. She's hiding behind the "whatever God wants and leads me" line, IMO. There would be nothing wrong with her declaring the truth whatever it is in HER heart and mind, if they are allowed to really have any real goals.

[GEML]

She's what, 25? In what other world would we ask a woman of 25 or thereabout to know if she wanted to be married or not? I've not always been Jana's biggest champion, but her ambivalence might be the most "normal" thing about her.

[lookeyloo]

Maybe she doesn't know if she "never" or "ever" wants to get married. Also we don't know what kind of prospects JB has presented her with. And we don't know if on closer inspection of her by them that after a few minutes any of them said "no thanks". She is pretty - but what happens in a chaperoned situation with a prospective suitor. Does she clam up? Look bored? Smile a vacant smile and nod? I wonder if there's something going on in the house of JB trying to pressure her and her digging her heels in - oh to be a fly on the wall.

[alt0233]

If Jana doesn't want to get married ever, she should cut out the crap and just say so. She's hiding behind the "whatever God wants and leads me" line, IMO. There would be nothing wrong with her declaring the truth whatever it is in HER heart and mind, if they are allowed to really have any real goals.

Except that in the world she lives in there WOULD be something wrong with that. Plus, 'I don't want to get married right now' doesn't mean 'I don't want to get married ever.'

Also, just because she's been turning down suiters (if we're assuming the article is at all accurate) doesn't mean she's not a nice or sweet person. It could just as easily mean that she realizes she lives in a culture where divorce isn't an option, and she's in a family where broken courtships are frowned upon, so she's not going to start courting just anyone. I'd hope she's being discerning and the idea that a woman is fridged or bitchy because she's not interested in dating people that her father is suggesting to her doesn't sit right with me.

[floridamom]

Yes, GEML, in the real world we would not ask a 25 year old woman that question, but the Duggars don't live in the normal world. The world they live in heavily stresses marriage and many children for it's women. They promote marriage, marriage and babies, babies nonstop. Having said that, one would ask a 25 year old UNMARRIED female what's up with that and what her preference is. I don't think in their case it would be inappropriate. Especially since 3 of her siblings have married and quickly at that.

[RazzleberryPie]

Jana may have bought into that Prince Charming fantasy that's been shoved down her throat her whole life, even though Prince Charming is a fairy tale. There just isn't a man (or woman) on earth who is going to have 100% devotion to God, perfect looks, perfect personality, perfect bank account, exactly the same interests, never argue, etc. That's just not human, and narrowing down all that to the few guys in the fundie world who are going to jump through the Duggar hoops in regards to courting makes for some slim pickins. I would hate for anyone to have to settle and marry someone they don't love at all, have no attraction to, don't respect or just don't like, but Jana might need to reassess if her goal is to get married anytime soon.

 

I think Jessa was standoffish with Ben at first, then realized he was cute and had potential, plus was her means to freedom, so she choses to overlook a lot of his immaturity. If nothing else, he's devoted and good looking. 

 

I also think Jill hit the jackpot with Derrick, not because he's 100% perfect, but because she was going to fall head over hills and give her whole heart to the first guy who paid her any attention. I really thought she'd be the SAHD of the bunch, but as soon as a guy looked her way, she was all his. She's lucky she didn't get some smooth talking, abusive grifter.

[floridamom]

Jill, IMO did NOT follow any of her own "advice" with a suitor in keeping her head OUT OF THE CLOUDS and remaining non-emotional with them. She caved like a house of cards...some hypocrite...and some real great advice huh? That girl was ruled by her crotch too, but hid it well in front of her parents and the world...she proved it by licking his fingers at the wedding reception. If I were her parents, I would have been embarrassed by that.

[Jellybeans]

I do not have any expectations from Jana because she has set no goals for herself. Marriage does not have to be a goal. She's old enough to do what she wants but does not.

[3girlsforus]

She's what, 25? In what other world would we ask a woman of 25 or thereabout to know if she wanted to be married or not? I've not always been Jana's biggest champion, but her ambivalence might be the most "normal" thing about her.

 

No kidding. I was married before I was 25 so obviously I knew I wanted to be married but before I met my husband I never would have thought I would marry young. If I had been required to say 'yes I want to get married' so someone could go out and find me a guy... I would have been single at 25 (and much longer). Many people don't really know they want to be married until they actually meet the person they want to marry. Then they can imagine a life with that person and marriage makes sense to them. Courtship takes that away. You have to decide you want marriage, the institution, rather than meeting a person and deciding you want a life with them which means you get married.

[Hpmec]

I still think Jana is determined not to have a huge family of her own, and the only way to avoid that in her world is to stay single. I'm sure there has been plenty of interest, and if she wanted to get married and make babies, she'd be married by now. Good for her that she's marching to a different drummer. Only problem is that she can't leave home until she marries and probably doesn't relish the thought of living under JB's roof forever.

[Jellybeans]

I still think Jana is determined not to have a huge family of her own, and the only way to avoid that in her world is to stay single. I'm sure there has been plenty of interest, and if she wanted to get married and make babies, she'd be married by now. Good for her that she's marching to a different drummer. Only problem is that she can't leave home until she marries and probably doesn't relish the thought of living under JB's roof forever.

Just curious, not disputing... what makes you think this? I would rather she do this than rot at home with her parents forever.

[Hpmec]

That's Jana's problem, Jellybeans. She has only two options - get married and have a bunch of kids or stay single and under JB's authority. There's no middle ground. For now she's at home. When she can 't stand that anymore, she'll get married. It's her only way out. By then it may be too late to have a dozen kids, which is what she's probably counting on. Think of all the child rearing she's done already. I would be willing to bet she's up to here with it and not anxious to be an official mom since she's been an unofficial mom since she was a little girl.

[trimthatfat]

I'm not convinced that there isn't middle ground for Jana. Thanks to this show, she has a myriad of opportunities available to her if she opted to make her own way.

[floridamom]

I have been reading your comments posters regarding the options that Jana has or doesn't have. I think the most sad thing about these groups of people would be that they can't speak to their suitors frankly in the first place. If Jana, in her heart, doesn't want "as many kids as she can have" until she's 50 she should be free to speak that to the guy and he in the same way. Perhaps a nice single man may not want 20 kids either..perhaps he's happy with 5 or so. They aren't allowed any privacy to speak freely. I see that as the main issue here...I don't care if Jim Bob and Michelle say they give 1 hour of "private phone time" to the courting couples to speak. That really isn't private at all, it's simply parents not listening in on a party-line type call and the conversations are in the middle of the living room so others can hear a one sided conversation. I bet dollars to doughnuts that Josh, Jill OR Jessa didn't get to sit in their bedrooms alone for one hour and speak to their girlfriend or boyfriends.

[Hpmec]

There are definitely opportunities out there for Jana if she was free to pursue them, but first she'd have to stand up to her parents and declare her independence. Just cannot see that happening, at least for now.

[Spencer Hastings]

I see so many posts about what the kids should or shouldn't do to assert their freedom, but I can't see them standing up to their parents like that.  Some people just aren't born with that kind of gumption and if they were, it was certainly "trained" out of them at a young age.  Many people have the option to assert themselves and wouldn't bat an eye, but even in the real world there are people who would just rather deal with whatever it is than go head first into confrontation.  My friends used to tell me to "tell your parents to fuck off and let you live your life" but I would rather die than be confrontational with my parents.  I can see Jana being the same way.  It's just not that easy for some people.  Sometimes it's just a person's personality and sometimes it's been beat out of them.  I just can't see standing up to Jim Bob being easy for her or even an option in her mind.  That would take a lot of mental Olympics.  

Edited February 2, 2015 by Spencer Hastings

[lookeyloo]

Spencer Hastings - I totally agree with you. I posted something similar a while back. It takes a certain amount of mental energy to pull all that off. And the prospect of being disconnected from everything familiar is probably something they don't want to confront.

[kalamac]

Spencer Hastings - firstly, every time I see your name, I imagine actual PLL Spencer Hastings hate-watching this show, and then bitching about it to Hanna the next day.

 

I think you're right about Jana too. I have an adult friend who was brought up in a house where both parents worked and she was well-educated, and every Christmas she goes home to visit them, even though they emotionally abuse her to the point that she's physically ill in the weeks leading up to it. I've asked why she just doesn't go, and her answer is always "because they'll be mad at me." She just can't bring herself to stay away, when they call her home.

[Mrsjumbo]

Jill, IMO did NOT follow any of her own "advice" with a suitor in keeping her head OUT OF THE CLOUDS and remaining non-emotional with them. She caved like a house of cards...some hypocrite...and some real great advice huh? That girl was ruled by her crotch too, but hid it well in front of her parents and the world...she proved it by licking his fingers at the wedding reception. If I were her parents, I would have been embarrassed by that.

I'm LOL at the thought of J'Boob & Mechelle being embarrassed by Jill licking the frosting. Look at how they behave in public- remember J'Boob practically dry humping M at the mini golf place?

[trimthatfat]

I had a relationship with my parents where I was afraid (like, very, very afraid) to tell them I was moving out of state. I was in my twenties and married, but yet, I was petrified to talk about this new stage in my life. I get the fear, I get not wanting to confront a parent and exert some independence. I felt it to a suffocating degree, so I can understand it if Jana feels that fear as well. However, I haven't seen anything to indicate that Jana is that afraid. I haven't seen much of anything about her to tell me anything. I sometimes think a narrative is being created for certain people in this family, like Jana, that isn't necessarily accurate. That's why I hesitate to say she is stuck with no way out.

[Barb23]

Spencer Hastings - I totally agree with you. I posted something similar a while back. It takes a certain amount of mental energy to pull all that off. And the prospect of being disconnected from everything familiar is probably something they don't want to confront.

Like we have said before, if Jana jumped ship, J & M would most likely cut off any contact with her siblings. I'm sure she could never go thru that since she played a great part in raising them.

[floridamom]

I think we already realized that Jana and the rest of the girls are really "prisoners" of their belief system with no way out. When one is blanket trained into obedience and told that having desires and goals that are not your parents' goals for you, that is a sin and you will go to hell, plain and simple, there is really no threat of jumping ship and asserting oneself at all. Jana and  the rest of them have been given no options. None of them will go anywhere that their parents don't approve of in life, daughters AND sons alike. So sad for them; they don't have a clue. What they "see" in the outside world is perceived to be sinful so they will never desire to venture out...quite convenient for their parents to "fence them in without a real physical fence"; the barriers are all in their heads.

[winsomeone]

I think Jana fell for someone, and he wasn't approved by Jim Bob. Remember the show when the girls were asked if anyone courting, and all eyes turned towards Jana? I think that since she couldn't have who she wanted, she has decided she will not have any one at all.