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The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

SpaghettiTuesdays

By SpaghettiTuesdays
in Counting On

Scarlett45
Message added by Scarlett45,

Discussing the charges against Jana is fine, but do not post any information that reveals her address/contact information- even if said documents are public (i.e. a part of court proceedings.)

Discussing charges against Jana is NOT a jumping off point to speculate on other instances abuse/neglect etc towards the M-children or to elaborate on Josh's conviction and potential victims.  

 

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Ijustwantsomechips
Ijustwantsomechips

Maybe Jana needs her own thread as a token of the respect she’ll never garner as a single woman in Gothardland.  

andromeda331
andromeda331

How about both hop in the plane close the door really quickly and fly off.  Abbie: "Where are we going?" JD: Cayman Islands. We're elope. And we're not coming back! Abbie: Wait we need

BitterApple
BitterApple

Wow, so this is what, the fourth guy to publicly release a statement denying involvement with Jana? That must be doing wonders for her self-esteem.  These guys are starting to piss me off, though

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cmr2014

cmr2014

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I've thought about this a lot, and I think that it's possible -- or probable -- that all, or most, of the Duggar children over about the age of ten are depressed. I'm not a psychiatrist, or a doctor, so this is just my own bs opinion, but . . .

They are all marginally mal-nourished. They don't eat regularly, and while they get enough calories to live, they don't get any fresh food. There is ample evidence that poor nutrition can lead to mental health problems.

They don't have a regular sleep schedule, or sleep patterns. Lack of sleep can lead to depression, and even more severe mental problems.

They get no intellectual stimulation. No books, no magazines, no movies, no television etc. outside a very narrow band of religious themed media. Lack of mental stimulation is, again, a proven cause of depression.

They have no friends, and no outside social activities. Social disconnectedness is a proven cause of depression.

They are members of a very hostile and repressive religious cult that has taught them that any natural emotions or physical responses to their situation are evil and wrong and will result in spending an eternity in hell. And, there is no end in sight. Marriage may get them out of the TTH, and allow them to resolve sexual urges, but it doesn't help with the rest. I think that as the younger siblings watch the older ones founder in marriage, it makes even that slim avenue of escape look like a dead-end.

For me, snarking on the Duggars is a pleasant diversion at the end of the day, but this is their life, and their world. There is nothing beyond lolling around the TTH in idleness, yammering about Jesus, and waiting to get married -- it's pretty dismal.

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bigskygirl

bigskygirl

12 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

I've thought about this a lot, and I think that it's possible -- or probable -- that all, or most, of the Duggar children over about the age of ten are depressed. I'm not a psychiatrist, or a doctor, so this is just my own bs opinion, but . . .

They are all marginally mal-nourished. They don't eat regularly, and while they get enough calories to live, they don't get any fresh food. There is ample evidence that poor nutrition can lead to mental health problems.

They don't have a regular sleep schedule, or sleep patterns. Lack of sleep can lead to depression, and even more severe mental problems.

They get no intellectual stimulation. No books, no magazines, no movies, no television etc. outside a very narrow band of religious themed media. Lack of mental stimulation is, again, a proven cause of depression.

They have no friends, and no outside social activities. Social disconnectedness is a proven cause of depression.

They are members of a very hostile and repressive religious cult that has taught them that any natural emotions or physical responses to their situation are evil and wrong and will result in spending an eternity in hell. And, there is no end in sight. Marriage may get them out of the TTH, and allow them to resolve sexual urges, but it doesn't help with the rest. I think that as the younger siblings watch the older ones founder in marriage, it makes even that slim avenue of escape look like a dead-end.

For me, snarking on the Duggars is a pleasant diversion at the end of the day, but this is their life, and their world. There is nothing beyond lolling around the TTH in idleness, yammering about Jesus, and waiting to get married -- it's pretty dismal.

I admit I cannot stand the family especially the older Duggars and the married couples, but I still not help but feel bad for them. My life is not all sunshine and roses 24/7, but it is better than what they have.

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ariel

ariel

6 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

I admit I cannot stand the family especially the older Duggars and the married couples, but I still not help but feel bad for them. My life is not all sunshine and roses 24/7, but it is better than what they have.

I'm not either, but at least I'm not told to fake it & be happy & joyful 24/7 to pick up a nice paycheck from TLC for doing basically nothing.

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bigskygirl

bigskygirl

1 hour ago, ariel said:

I'm not either, but at least I'm not told to fake it & be happy & joyful 24/7 to pick up a nice paycheck from TLC for doing basically nothing.

You mean you would not fake it for the almighty dollar and five minutes of famewhoreness? You terrible heathen!!! We are holding a spot in the Prayer Closet for you.

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ariel

ariel

Just now, bigskygirl said:

You mean you would not fake it for the almighty dollar and five minutes of famewhoreness? You terrible heathen!!! We are holding a spot in the Prayer Closet for you.

I have two chilled bottles of Chardonnay to share. I'm there. 

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Westiepeach

Westiepeach

(edited)
43 minutes ago, ariel said:

My wine glasses are all in the dish washer.  We need someone to bring some clean wine glasses.  No Styrofoam cups for us.

No styrofoam for us. Glass only, please. Pet peeve of mine. Wine deserves respect! I will gladly buy more glasses if need be!

Edited by Westiepeach
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xwordfanatik

xwordfanatik

(edited)

Red wine is my favorite.  May I join you?

ETA:  I'll bring some of my favorite Zinfandel to share.  I'm not a cheap bastard like Boob!  The nerve of that asshole, pining for wedding gifts by inviting the whole state of AR, and not even having decent food, let alone drinks to make it bearable.

Edited by xwordfanatik
to rant about Boob's cheapo ways
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LilJen

LilJen

I bought some Pinot Grigio the other night solely for its name: Sheep Thrills. With a cute little sheep on the front. [Didn't realize until I'd left the store it had a screw-on top. For $8.99 I was a bit underwhelmed. For $3, yes, but I expect a cork over $5!]

I'd give Jana and JD some Sheep Thrills. It's not terrible.

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Jynnan tonnix

Jynnan tonnix

(edited)
1 hour ago, LilJen said:

I bought some Pinot Grigio the other night solely for its name: Sheep Thrills. With a cute little sheep on the front. [Didn't realize until I'd left the store it had a screw-on top. For $8.99 I was a bit underwhelmed. For $3, yes, but I expect a cork over $5!]

I'd give Jana and JD some Sheep Thrills. It's not terrible.

I've had $40 wine with a screw top...it's not the mark of swill that it used to be.

Ummmm...trying to get back on topic, but I can't recall what we were talking about and it's a whole page behind...

Edited by Jynnan tonnix
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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

12 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I wonder how Jana is coping with the fact that her 19 year-old sister is pregnant while she's a 27 year-old virgin sharing a bedroom with Josie. That has to be a real kick in the teeth. 

I could see this going several ways, 1. Being happy she's not pregnant and forced to serve another fundy man, 2. Counting down the hours until she can have a long hot shower and some self love. 

Jana may not be a virgin though.....JD might not be either (didn't he move out of the TTH?). 

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xwordfanatik

xwordfanatik

20 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I could see this going several ways, 1. Being happy she's not pregnant and forced to serve another fundy man, 2. Counting down the hours until she can have a long hot shower and some self love. 

Jana may not be a virgin though.....JD might not be either (didn't he move out of the TTH?). 

I hope Jana does have a secret life with a special someone.  After raising most of her siblings, she deserves some fun and appreciation.

JD is as plain as pasteurized milk, and I can't see him even remotely interested in anyone romantically.  He reminds me of a former coworker who is still single at 50.  The twins have probably been guilted into taking care of Ma & Pa forever.  A life sentence with no hope for parole.

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

(edited)
12 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

I hope Jana does have a secret life with a special someone.  After raising most of her siblings, she deserves some fun and appreciation.

JD is as plain as pasteurized milk, and I can't see him even remotely interested in anyone romantically.  He reminds me of a former coworker who is still single at 50.  The twins have probably been guilted into taking care of Ma & Pa forever.  A life sentence with no hope for parole.

Oh I agree that they will probably end up taking care of JB&Michelle in their last days.

You don't have to be interested in someone romantically to engage in partnered sex, and being single  doesn't mean you don't have a need for partnered sex. (I know you know this I'm just pointing it out) I am single (by choice) that doesn't mean I'm celibate. 

 

Its very possible JD could be asexual OR is a true believer of the Tentant of waiting until marriage, but if neither he or Jana chose to do that I wouldn't be surprised. 

Edited by Scarlett45
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madpsych78

madpsych78

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Its very possible JD could be asexual OR is a true believer of the Tentant of waiting until marriage, but if neither he or Jana chose to do that I wouldn't be surprised. 

That's an interesting theory, and it is plausible. We know the Duggars' views on homosexuality, but what about asexuality?

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flyingdi

flyingdi

1 hour ago, madpsych78 said:

That's an interesting theory, and it is plausible. We know the Duggars' views on homosexuality, but what about asexuality?

Asexuality, I would assume, ha s no place in breeding an army for God.

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laurakaye

laurakaye

20 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I wonder how Jana is coping with the fact that her 19 year-old sister is pregnant while she's a 27 year-old virgin sharing a bedroom with Josie. That has to be a real kick in the teeth. 

At some point, doesn't JB kind of need to address this?  If the purpose of having daughters is so they get married way too young and start multiplying, how can he not want the same for Jana?  With each subsequent marriage and baby-making announcement it looks weirder and weirder that Jana is still home taking care of the leftovers.  I mean, I am personally thrilled that Jana is not already the mother of a half-dozen kids, and I like to think she's secretly stashing away some cash with which to run away and never come back.  But I'm sure she's either been guilted into being the spinster sister, or she's honestly afraid to leave the little ones in the care of her parents.  Still, I find it odd that JB and Michelle haven't really addresses the fact that they're probably making arrangements for Johanna's courtship while Jana remains homebound.

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Temperance

Temperance

42 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

At some point, doesn't JB kind of need to address this?  If the purpose of having daughters is so they get married way too young and start multiplying, how can he not want the same for Jana?  With each subsequent marriage and baby-making announcement it looks weirder and weirder that Jana is still home taking care of the leftovers.  I mean, I am personally thrilled that Jana is not already the mother of a half-dozen kids, and I like to think she's secretly stashing away some cash with which to run away and never come back.  But I'm sure she's either been guilted into being the spinster sister, or she's honestly afraid to leave the little ones in the care of her parents.  Still, I find it odd that JB and Michelle haven't really addresses the fact that they're probably making arrangements for Johanna's courtship while Jana remains homebound.

I don't think they need to address it. I'm more worried that she gets stuck in a courtship she doesn't want just because it looks funny. Hopefully if anything her singleness proves she can stand up for herself when necessary.  

That being said I agree with you about  being happy for Jana she doesn't have a half-dozen kids. 

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

36 minutes ago, Temperance said:

I don't think they need to address it. I'm more worried that she gets stuck in a courtship she doesn't want just because it looks funny. Hopefully if anything her singleness proves she can stand up for herself when necessary.  

That being said I agree with you about  being happy for Jana she doesn't have a half-dozen kids. 

I don't think they need to address it nor do they feel they need to. Even in these circles one or two kids not marrying and caring for aging parents is common. In any large family one or two single siblings is expected in the "normal world" as well. Jana has more freedom now than all her siblings save Jinger. If she wants to marry a more mainstream guy and not have a bunch of kids in the future more power to her for standing firm. If she would rather be single that's good too. 

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Vaysh

Vaysh

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

In any large family one or two single siblings is expected in the "normal world" as well.

Really? Is this a common thing in the US? Because I've honestly never come across this idea before, except maybe in historical novels. I admit I live in a country where huge families are quite rare but they do exist, and I've never heard anyone in them talk about having to give up marriage and children to care for their parents in their old age. I mean, that's why we have pensions and domiciliary care and retirement homes. People care about their parents and help them out of course, but more in the sense of helping them mow their lawns and carry heavy stuff, not in the 'giving up their entire lives for a grim distant future of playing nurse and caretaker' sense.

 

Now, I could definitely see this scenario playing out in Duggarville because of their isolationist ideology and their weird obsession with Victorian ideals. And I think Jana could very well have been chosen as the sacrificial lamb and JD could be staying on out of some sense of solidarity (or because he's a potato).

My theory though, is that Jana staying at home has more to do with Josie than with her parents' potential need for home care 20-30 years from now. Jana is Josie's sister mom/buddy and despite Michelle being slightly more involved than usual in Josie's care, I still think that the main responsibilities fell on Jana pretty early on; you can tell in the Japan trip special for example that Jana was the main caregiver at that point. Combined with Michelle's potentially deteriorating mental state since Jubilee and her past detached parenting habits, I think Jana feels like she can't leave until Josie is old enough to fend for herself. And, here too, JD could be staying out of solidarity with Jana. Or because he's a potato.

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

@Vaysh Sorry I wasn't clear. I didn't meant in a large "normal" family 1-2 siblings were obligated or expected to remain single and childfree out of duty to their aging parents, but that statistically it's not unusual for 1-2 to never do so (for whatever reason- by choice). A lot of people I know have at least one "maiden great aunt" or "bachelor great uncle"(and I don't mean as a polite way of saying he was gay).

And realistically it's usually the siblings that don't have children or partner that end up doing the lion's share of the caregiving to the parents. If you have 6 kids, rarely is the work split equality 6 ways, or even one adult child doing 50% and the other 5 splitting the rest- it's usually an 85/15% split. 

 

I can see Jana and JD being the two to remain single if that's what they want....as well as a few of the younger ones. 

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Vaysh

Vaysh

(edited)
12 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Almost no one has a pension anymore in the US. And retirement homes are $$$.

...how does that even work? I mean, I trust your word but how does it work? Like, how does old people survive in that system if they haven't got any family?

 

 

ETA: Thanks for clarifying @Scarlett45 that makes sense.

Edited by Vaysh
replying to scarlett45
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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

2 minutes ago, Vaysh said:

...how does that even work? I mean, I trust your word but how does it work? Like, how does old people survive if they haven't got any family?

If they were well off and smart what they've saved/invested during their working years. If they were a "regular person" they live off of Social Security (a system that we pay taxes into to support disabled and elderly people) which is based on what they've earned in life (if they worked). But trust me it's NOT a lot to live on. Most middle class elderly persons live on a combo of savings, Social Security and supplemental income (investments, extras from their kids).

Many elderly people live in poverty. Heaven forbid if you get sick and need long term care. State run rest homes are not welcoming places in the USA. And the "good ones" are pricey. 

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crazycatlady58

crazycatlady58

3 minutes ago, Vaysh said:

...how does that even work? I mean, I trust your word but how does it work? Like, how does old people survive if they haven't got any family?

They  go into a cheap  nursing  home  and you see them on the news because  they are  neglected . That is my future . 

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Jynnan tonnix

Jynnan tonnix

4 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

If they were well off and smart what they've saved/invested during their working years. If they were a "regular person" they live off of Social Security (a system that we pay taxes into to support disabled and elderly people) which is based on what they've earned in life (if they worked). But trust me it's NOT a lot to live on. Most middle class elderly persons live on a combo of savings, Social Security and supplemental income (investments, extras from their kids).

Many elderly people live in poverty. Heaven forbid if you get sick and need long term care. State run rest homes are not welcoming places in the USA. And the "good ones" are pricey. 

We are having that issue with my mother in law...There is also such a thing as insurance plans for rest homes, which my inlaws had, and which we told them never to get rid of...it was expensive, but we told them that if they could not afford it on their income, we would help. Well, a few years ago, they decided it was too expensive and dropped it (I think it was something like $600/month). My father-in-law passed away a couple of years after that, and my mother-in-law developed dementia about a year later (it became clear that she'd probably had the start of it for some time, but he was covering for a lot of her lapses) and quickly got to the point that she could no longer live at home, and really needed to be somewhere that she'd get the right sort of supervision (there were a couple of incidents when she was staying with us and started wandering around at night, one of which led to a fall down a couple of steps and a broken hip). Anyway, long story short, she's in a nice facility now, but it costs some $8000/month, and her income is only about $2500. Luckily she did have some savings and investments, and also owned their house free & clear. We've had that on the market for the past 8 months, and luckily it did finally sell, though the closing won't be for a few more weeks (fingers crossed that all goes smoothly!) and in the meantime her savings ran out and we have been having to make up the difference. If she can stay there for two years, that's when Medicare (Medicaid? I get those confused) kicks in and she will be covered, so it's lucky that the house is selling, because that monthly payment for the next 16 months would pretty much wipe us out as well.

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Temperance

Temperance

46 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I can see Jana and JD being the two to remain single if that's what they want....as well as a few of the younger ones. 

I don't know on the one hand they don't show the family being too pushy about them being single. (Maybe they know it would look bad.)

At the same time the father has made it clear he expects all of his kids to get married.One moment from the original show that really stood out to me, was a quiet moment when JB was talking to the littlest girls, and maybe a producer was also talking to them. They were asking the girls opinions on what they wanted to be, and one, I think, maybe wanted to be a doctor or something and that she did not want to get married.  Jim Bob kept saying well you'll change your mind when you get older since she was like 6 or 7.  She kept insisting she didn't want to get maried and he kept insisting right back. He got the last word, and he looked very grim while correcting her. Then at his daughters' weddings (at Jill's and Jessa's) he said 2 down, 17 to go, and then 3 down, 16 to go. 

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kalamac

kalamac

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(edited)

For me the Jana issue isn't that she's 27 and unmarried (I am 40 and unmarried), or even that she lives at home, as many young adults are doing these days out of money concerns, but that she is 27 and still considered a child in the eyes of her parents, because she is not married. Regardless of marital status, a grown woman shouldn't have to share a room with her pre-teen sisters, especially when living in a house that is large enough to afford her private quarters, even if that meant moving into the shed Ben lived in when he was courting Jessa.

Edited by kalamac
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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

12 minutes ago, kalamac said:

For me the Jana issue isn't that she's 27 and unmarried (I am 40 and unmarried), or even that she lives at home, as many young adults are doing these days out of money concerns, but that she is 27 and still considered a child in the eyes of her parents, because she is not married. Regardless of marital status a grown woman shouldn't have to share a room with her pre-teen sisters, especially when living in a house that is large enough to afford her private quarters, even if that meant moving into the shed Ben lived in when he was courting Jessa.

Amen. Are we sure she doesn't live in the shed? We know JD moved out of the boys dorm a while ago although they keep that "hush hush". 

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