The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

[GeeGolly]

This whole saga has me thinking of Jill letting her boys climb on stacks of rider toys and Jessa and Joy with their barefoot children near sharp objects. Those incidents were intentional. At least Jana's was a mistake.

[lascuba]

1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

But we don't convict people on what MIGHT have happened.   We go with what DID happen.   The child was in danger, but NOT harmed.   If the child was harmed, then she would not have just been issued a citation.   but the child was NOT harmed sayind she should face the same consequences that if she were hit by a car and killed is not how it works.

The parents this has happened to without consequence were more hype vigilant I am sure.   We don't need to send someone to jail just to make sure they learned their lesson.

Quite frankly, screaming for MORE punishment than the average person would receive just because Jana is a Duggar is just as bad as saying she should not face any consequences because she worships the right Jesus.   Equal before the law means no favoritism OR disfavortism (is that a word?  It is now).   

You think Jana is being targeted? Because I keep wondering just how many warnings every adult in that family must have gotten for negligent behavior before this alleged incident broke the camel's back. They've almost certainly gotten way more chances than the average person in their area, and undoubtedly more than anyone much less privileged. 

[emmawoodhouse]

I can see a scenario in which Jana put Mack in charge of the napping kids. Jana of course falls on her sword for the then 11 year old. 

[Cinnabon]

17 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

To say that no one should ever nap while a child naps is ridiculous. Are parents supposed to sit up all night to make sure that a child does not get up and escape to the outside? We don't know who the child is, the age of the child and if there were other adults in the home? With all of the chaos in the Duggar house it is possible that the child simply opened the door and walked out and was not missed. The lesson here for anyone who is watching young children is make sure that the doors are locked securely. 

The Bates' 2 youngest boys set the house on fire playing with lighters. Unless is was hushed up I don't think anyone was charged with a misdemeanor crime.  When people have so many young children in a large home I dont know how it is possible to have eyes on every child at all times.  If Jana was asleep when the child got out and she was the one who was in charge of this child she would be better off owning up to this.  

 

There’s a reason why child care facilities have strict rules about the ratio of children to adults.  It’s simply not safe to have only one adult watching a bunch of kids, especially when some of those kids are very young and need closer supervision.

 

ETA- if the Bates weren’t at least cited, they should have been.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Cinnabon

[Cinnabon]

16 minutes ago, lascuba said:

You think Jana is being targeted? Because I keep wondering just how many warnings every adult in that family must have gotten for negligent behavior before this alleged incident broke the camel's back. They've almost certainly gotten way more chances than the average person in their area, and undoubtedly more than anyone much less privileged. 

They’re not being targeted. As you said, they’ve gotten away with more than the average person would have. Most people don’t have the option of just refusing to meet with CPS and fleeing the state for a while. They’ve been treated with too much deference in the past.

[satrunrose]

I feel like this is really hard to judge because we know so little about what happened and about Jana herself. Although we're all guilty of making Jana-related assumptions, we have no idea how Jana feels about her life, her religion and the child care responsibilities that have been forced on her for her whole life. 

I feel like we "know" the other players in this well enough to make a decent inference about the back story if it had happened to them (Anna = paying way too much attention to pest, Jessa = Being lazy, Joy = mimicking the same lack of supervision she saw her whole life and isn't insightful enough to realize that she's putting kids at risk, Jinger = stop admiring your headship's hamburgers and pay attention to your girls!, Jill = This is a major step back, is she okay?). All I know about Jana is she likes gardening, home improvement and limited travel within the US. Is she (still) a conscientious and devoted care giver who slipped up just once and is dealing with an overzealous persecution? Does she have just as many failings in dealing with adult life as the other 16 (not counting Josh or Jill) and they finally caught up with her? I don't think we have any way of knowing yet. 

[Cinnabon]

2 minutes ago, satrunrose said:

I feel like this is really hard to judge because we know so little about what happened and about Jana herself. Although we're all guilty of making Jana-related assumptions, we have no idea how Jana feels about her life, her religion and the child care responsibilities that have been forced on her for her whole life. 

I feel like we "know" the other players in this well enough to make a decent inference about the back story if it had happened to them (Anna = paying way too much attention to pest, Jessa = Being lazy, Joy = mimicking the same lack of supervision she saw her whole life and isn't insightful enough to realize that she's putting kids at risk, Jinger = stop admiring your headship's hamburgers and pay attention to your girls!, Jill = This is a major step back, is she okay?). All I know about Jana is she likes gardening, home improvement and limited travel within the US. Is she (still) a conscientious and devoted care giver who slipped up just once and is dealing with an overzealous persecution? Does she have just as many failings in dealing with adult life as the other 16 (not counting Josh or Jill) and they finally caught up with her? I don't think we have any way of knowing yet. 

There is no actual “persecution “ happening here. They are just conspiracy theorists who always want to play the victim IMHO.

[mynextmistake]

50 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I agree if the facts are true, Jana should face whatever the appropriate consequence is. I was sharing my example, not because she shouldn't face consequences, but to show Jana is not some crazy irresponsible aunt who cares so little about her niece she just let her wander off.

I can't name one parent I know, who doesn't have a story of some shenanigans their kids got into, when their backs were turned for a second or two.

Well, sure. No caregiver is perfect and shenanigans happen.

But there are degrees of shenanigans. My kid once drew on our yellow lab with black sharpie while my back was turned. But she never got out of my house and into the street long enough to be picked up by a police officer without me even noticing she was gone. I understand Jana was tired and has to watch way too many kids that aren’t even hers to begin with, but it’s really not that hard to lock a door if you realize there’s a chance you can’t devote your full attention to watching the kids. I don’t think Jana is generally crazy or irresponsible, but in this case it seems like she did behave irresponsibly.

[satrunrose]

19 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

There is no actual “persecution “ happening here. They are just conspiracy theorists who always want to play the victim IMHO.

Oh, I don't think anyone's being persecuted either. What I'm saying is that here in the court of public opinion I don't think we can know whether this is a momentary slip that could happen to anyone (and should be viewed with sympathy by us, whatever the legal system says) or proof that all of the junior Duggars have fallen victim to the family curse of arrogance and half-assery (and are therefore totally snarkable). 

TLDR, my comment was about how we, the anti-fans, view Jana, not how the courts do/should. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by satrunrose

[Boston]

I'm giving Jana a break.  I have a feeling that this was something minor and (because of the pedophile) things got ramped up - I know maybe it was a neighbor who saw the child - if this is even the right story.  I have always kind of had a soft spot for Jana - none of the others.  Maybe because I knew she was taking the brunt of taking care of these little kids-which wasn't fair.  I honestly don't think it's a big a deal as has been made (my god, EVERY day for 3 days her face is on MSN NEWS or YAHOO NEWS. I mean, COME ON!).  The news has so much worse things to report.  I'm kinda torn.  JMO.

[BigBingerBro]

I'll bet Jana was in charge of the M's and Josie and the lost girls/remaining howlers for a day, she told the older lost girls to keep an eye on things while she took a short nap.  Meanwhile, one of the littler M kids escaped and wandered to the road.  Someone reports it and the cops take her back to the TTH and one of the girls opens the door and when asked whos in charge, they say Jana but she's sleeping.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I'm wondering if it wasn't the first time that Jana wasn't supervising the kids and at least one went wandering into the road?     

Every other case I've heard of, the first time may be considered an accident, but after that it's considered neglect.    

Edited December 12, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[CalicoKitty]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

They’re not being targeted. As you said, they’ve gotten away with more than the average person would have. Most people don’t have the option of just refusing to meet with CPS and fleeing the state for a while. They’ve been treated with too much deference in the past.

I agree.  Jill posted pictures of driving her boys while they were standing up on the back seat with their heads out the sun roof.  She was driving on a public street.  Her excuse was it was just a couple of blocks.  Police were not involved.  I think this family has gotten away with stuff that "average" families (ie: those families without their own TV show) would be called out on.  I hope that things will be changing now.

Edited December 12, 2021 by CalicoKitty

[crazy8s]

I think it was pointed out earlier the date of the lost child was when JB, Meech, Jackson, Tyler, the lost girls, Jeer and Hannah etc, were at the Bontrager home school thing in Iowa.

I don't think they are being persecuted. I say they might be having a learning experience that actions actually do have consequences.

[emmawoodhouse]

27 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

I think it was pointed out earlier the date of the lost child was when JB, Meech, Jackson, Tyler, the lost girls, Jeer and Hannah etc, were at the Bontrager home school thing in Iowa.

I don't think they are being persecuted. I say they might be having a learning experience that actions actually do have consequences.

Yes, the senior Duggars were out of town with the minor children. There was, therefore, a dearth of childcare help at the TTH. With Anna presumably gone, that's even one less body to help.

[cmr2014]

Obviously, we don't know what happened exactly, but I have a couple of thoughts:

1. From the images that I've seen, the TTH isn't close to the road at all. The compound is also fenced. If a small child got all the way to the road, s/he was not being supervised at all. 

2. If this was an M kid, the older ones are plenty old enough to keep an eye on a younger sibling. If none of the older Ms saw that Jana was sleeping and gave any thought to the location of the toddler M, that would suggest that they have inherited a proto-Josh sense of entitlement.

3. If Jana is in fact falling and her sword for Anna, she's not doing Anna or the Ms any favors. Anna has been pregnant and under a lot of stress. If she hasn't been up to supervising her kids that's not surprising, and maybe the threat of CPS on her doorstep would be enough to convince her to send them to visit their grandparents, or aunts and uncles for a few months.

[emmawoodhouse]

CPS will be paying Anna a call soon. I think she'd be in deep doodoo if she sends the kids away so they can't be interviewed. 

[Churchhoney]

My guess is that because of how 2021 is going in the the Duggar clan there was general chaos and mental fog and probably a series of miscues and small messups among two or three people that ended up with this thing -- whatever it was exactly -- happening. One way or another, the stupid mess will probably end up without any huge consequences for Jana while motivating all of them to get their acts together -- even if they only do it because they now fear further "persecution." And on the whole, that'll be a good thing (except for the persecution complex -- but I fear there's nothing anybody can do about that...)

The only thing that to me feels unfair is having Jana suddenly showing up all over the media and getting sort of equated with Josh and his issues in some places. Obviously, this is nothing like that and she's nothing like him. I wish that weren't happening to her.

But.....it wouldn't be happening much -- or at all -- if JB and M weren't media whores and hadn't gleefully made their family into a media circus. It's too bad that this event comes down on the head of one of the Duggarlings who's stayed away from media and social media to a large extent......But if your family is this nuts and you stay with them into your 30s, this is probably the kind of thing you have to expect. 

Re: Laura. How the hell any adult not born of JB and M can voluntarily move in with those two creeps and live with them for years -- no matter how "religious" she is -- is completely beyond my comprehension.  

Edited December 13, 2021 by Churchhoney

[65mickey]

45 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

1. From the images that I've seen, the TTH isn't close to the road at all. The compound is also fenced. If a small child got all the way to the road, s/he was not being supervised at all

If the compound is fenced how did a child get out and on the Road? Is this child capable of unlocking a gate?

[emmawoodhouse]

3 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

If the compound is fenced how did a child get out and on the Road? Is this child capable of unlocking a gate?

The child was found on a back road that runs parallel to the fenced TTH entrance 

Edited December 13, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[farmgal4]

9 hours ago, SMama said:

It was on an episode of 19 Kids. JB hired a clown (on stilts) to terrify Amy on what was supposed to be her birthday party. JB and his kids have a mean streak. Karma is coming for them. 

I think karma has arrived.

[Churchhoney]

14 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

The child was found on a back road that runs parallel to the fenced TTH entrance 

A kid who could propel themselves that far was within easy reach of three or four ponds, too. That seems like the kind of potential threat you'd worry about. 

[farmgal4]

2 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I'm wondering if it wasn't the first time that Jana wasn't supervising the kids and at least one went wandering into the road?     

Every other case I've heard of, the first time may be considered an accident, but after that it's considered neglect.    

I think all of the younger kids/grandkids  at the TTH just do what they please.  Remember Jessa’s video where she found Henry and Ivy in Jana’s garden?  Jessa said that she lost them and found them there by themselves, and it didn’t seem to faze Jessa.

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, cmr2014 said:

Obviously, we don't know what happened exactly, but I have a couple of thoughts:

1. From the images that I've seen, the TTH isn't close to the road at all. The compound is also fenced. If a small child got all the way to the road, s/he was not being supervised at all. 

You're right, we dont know all the real details. But that is a long way to go for a 2 year old.

[Cinnabon]

24 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

A kid who could propel themselves that far was within easy reach of three or four ponds, too. That seems like the kind of potential threat you'd worry about. 

Yep. At 2 years old, even a puddle can be potentially fatal if deep enough and the child falls in. Drowning can happen in a split second.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Cinnabon

[emmawoodhouse]

We don't know that it was Maryella. The first kid I thought of was Meredith. She's 6.

[SusanM]

17 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

We don't know that it was Maryella. The first kid I thought of was Meredith. She's 6.

This thread has moved fast - I didn't even realize we knew for sure it was even one of the M kids, let alone that it was Maryella.  I wondered if there was a link upthread someplace that  I missed.  Otherwise it seems like it's been speculation on social media that is being taken for fact.  Which is not to say it's not true of course but there seem to be a lot of assumptions being made here if everything being said is based only on the charge itself. 

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by SusannahM

[Ijustwantsomechips]

Am I the only one thinking maybe it was Bella. Lauren overreacted, and that’s how the police got involved?  

[YupItsMe]

1 minute ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

Am I the only one thinking maybe it was Bella. Lauren overreacted, and that’s how the police got involved?  

That was my first thought too. “Ah, now we know why the exodus from IG” is right where my thoughts went.

[Cinnabon]

10 minutes ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

Am I the only one thinking maybe it was Bella. Lauren overreacted, and that’s how the police got involved?  

From what I’ve heard on Reddit, Lauren rarely takes Bella to the TTH. So who knows?

[Cinnabon]

10 minutes ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

Am I the only one thinking maybe it was Bella. Lauren overreacted, and that’s how the police got involved?  

ETA- if her toddler was found on the road, I can’t imagine what could be considered an “overreaction” here. Many parents would be understandably overwrought and terrified. 

[cmr2014]

36 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

From what I’ve heard on Reddit, Lauren rarely takes Bella to the TTH. So who knows?

I was thinking that it must be an M or possibly a Seewald or Forsythe.

Jill doesn't bring her kids very often; Grace only seems to visit with her parents; Bella hasn't been seen in months, but there's no evidence that Lauren and Josiah are dropping her off and leaving her. There's no indication that Joe and Kendra use the TTH as a day care, either.

[cmr2014]

I was telling the story about Jana and the escaped child to someone and it seemed clear when I tried to explain it that Jana wasn't watching the kids. Her first response to the officer that she wasn't babysitting was probably the truth. She probably backtracked when she realized that that sounded bad and thought "I was taking a nap" sounded believable.

Obviously, I don't know that it was an M kid, but it makes me wonder if Anna was just leaving her kids at the warehouse when she was at the Rebers with instructions to go to the TTH if there were any problems. It might not have been a big deal when the TTH was stuffed full of Duggars, but when they were away and the kids were left with instructions to spend the day praying and making "Welcome Home Daddy" signs, someone made a break for it and got caught.

[MsJamieDornan]

3 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

We don't know that it was Maryella. The first kid I thought of was Meredith. She's 6.

Some of the reports state it was a 22 month old. 

[emmawoodhouse]

4 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Some of the reports state it was a 22 month old. 

Those reports are quoting KJ. 

But it's consistent with the ages of Maryella, Bella, and Addison who were all born that November.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

I understand Jana was tired and has to watch way too many kids that aren’t even hers to begin with,

I think a lot of the varying opinions on this boil down to this - some people feel she has to watch the kids and others think she is making a choice as an adult. 

Personally, I think she is given pass after pass by fans in a way that none of the other Duggars are given. We really don't know that much about her inner thoughts and opinions, but I'm not impressed by what I have seen.  

[js9548]

I am still confused about the road that the child was near. Is the road inside or outside the fenced compound? If it is outside did the child unlock the gate to get outside the compound?  I tried to find photos of the layout but I am still unclear. 

[all fall down]

No unlocking was needed, anyone could climb right thru/over the fence. (photo in spoiler)

I'm also a bit confused on the road. I thought I read the name of the road as the one that the pool house is on, which is not parallel to their road, but perpindicular (say it with me!). I don't see any other roads that run parallel to theirs in that area. 

Spoiler

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by christine falls

[js9548]

Thanks  christine falls I guess I always imagined that the fencing around the compound was more for security and less decorative. This type of fencing wouldn't even keep out the occasional fan or lookeyloo. I guess the security cameras (?)  would help but that would be after the fact.

[65mickey]

6 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Those reports are quoting KJ

Who or what is KJ?  The only report that I read was that Jana was charged with child endangerment and given a citation and she had pleaded not guilty.  Is there any official information that states this is about a child wandering the road alone and the age of the child or is this just specualtion?  Just asking because I haven't seen anything other than the citation being issued. 

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

Who or what is KJ?  The only report that I read was that Jana was charged with child endangerment and given a citation and she had pleaded not guilty.  Is there any official information that states this is about a child wandering the road alone and the age of the child or is this just specualtion?  Just asking because I haven't seen anything other than the citation being issued. 

The articles from the more reputable news sources refer to the details being sealed so I think it is mostly speculation as I don’t think those IGers who claim to have inside sources really do much of the time.

I do think it’s strange that her brothers are posting “I stand with Jana Duggar” on social media but the family hasn’t tried to release a statement on what happened. 

[lascuba]

20 minutes ago, deaja said:

The articles from the more reputable news sources refer to the details being sealed so I think it is mostly speculation as I don’t think those IGers who claim to have inside sources really do much of the time.

I do think it’s strange that her brothers are posting “I stand with Jana Duggar” on social media but the family hasn’t tried to release a statement on what happened. 

I think the "I stand with Jana" posts was an attempt at humor and downplaying. Social media exploded with this news and they decided to post that picture and caption to scoff at how people were exaggerating events. 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I think the "I stand with Jana" posts was an attempt at humor and downplaying. Social media exploded with this news and they decided to post that picture and caption to scoff at how people were exaggerating events. 

So in other words their usual horrible PR instincts and weird attempts at humor? I could see it. 

[65mickey]

Thanks Deaja and Iascuba. I thought I had missed the big scoop on this. I have read everything from a police officer coming to the door and asking Jana if she was missing a child, to the child wandering down a road near ponds and a pool and Jana sleeping while this was going on. And all of this may be correct. But I cannot find this information on any realiable source. 

[Churchhoney]

37 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

Thanks Deaja and Iascuba. I thought I had missed the big scoop on this. I have read everything from a police officer coming to the door and asking Jana if she was missing a child, to the child wandering down a road near ponds and a pool and Jana sleeping while this was going on. And all of this may be correct. But I cannot find this information on any realiable source. 

Well, I'm the perpetrator of the ponds thing.... But I didn't say anybody had reported facts about ponds. I was just going off the the one thing we apparently do know from the police's arrival  -- that a kid did go wandering away from the house and they didn't know it.......

I was just making the comment that there are three or four easily accessible ponds quite near the TTH. There are two ponds that are each about 500 or 600 feet from the house, another one that's maybe about 800 feet away, and another maybe 1000 feet away. So anybody who's wandering around near the TTH is going to be near ponds. That's just a fact of the landscape. And if a kid could walk to any road at all from the house, they could also easily walk far enough to get to a pond. 

I didn't mean to imply that the kid was found near any ponds. Just that, to me, having not just one but several ponds that close to your house is another really good reason to make sure young kids can't go wandering outside on their own.

Plus, I wonder whether the fact that the ponds are there might have something to do with why neighbors/cops/whoever considered it reckless to have a small wandering child in that area and be unaware of it.  

Edited December 13, 2021 by Churchhoney

[merylinkid]

I'm wondering if Head Idiot released the news about Jana himself.   In his usual stupid way to get the publicity off Josh being convicted.   You know, throwing a daughter under the bus to save his golden child.   he probably believed that people would either fixate on Jana and forget about Josh's conviction or, they would equate the two in seriousness.   Oh it's just a little misdemeanor, no big deal.   

If so, it kinda worked.   They did equate the 2.   Except not the way he thought.   Every article about Jana is a rehash of the CSAM.   People wonder if they are related, etc.    

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

I'm wondering if Head Idiot released the news about Jana himself.   In his usual stupid way to get the publicity off Josh being convicted.   You know, throwing a daughter under the bus to save his golden child.   he probably believed that people would either fixate on Jana and forget about Josh's conviction or, they would equate the two in seriousness.   Oh it's just a little misdemeanor, no big deal.   

If so, it kinda worked.   They did equate the 2.   Except not the way he thought.   Every article about Jana is a rehash of the CSAM.   People wonder if they are related, etc.    

I don't think even JB is that stupid. All it's done is keep the Duggar name in the headlines in a negative way for longer. I think the more likely scenario is someone was searching court records related to Josh or to look up what fines he paid and came across the Jana news.  Or they had come across it awhile ago but knew it wouldn't get maximum airtime while the trial was underway. By holding it til the conclusion of the trial but when the Duggar name was still hot, it got a lot more publicity.

[louannems]

9 hours ago, deaja said:

I think a lot of the varying opinions on this boil down to this - some people feel she has to watch the kids and others think she is making a choice as an adult. 

Personally, I think she is given pass after pass by fans in a way that none of the other Duggars are given. We really don't know that much about her inner thoughts and opinions, but I'm not impressed by what I have seen.  

I remember Jana babysitting Izzy when he was a very young toddler.  In a talking head, she declared him very strong-willed.  I could tell she thought that was a bad thing.  I'm guessing Jana treats the little kids just like M treated the J's.

[Zella]

I think Jim Bob is a very dumb man, but I do not believe he released this info. I think he's huddled with his Aquanet wondering why Satan is attacking him. 

[SusanM]

9 hours ago, deaja said:

Personally, I think she is given pass after pass by fans in a way that none of the other Duggars are given. We really don't know that much about her inner thoughts and opinions, but I'm not impressed by what I have seen.  

I think for some Jana has been chosen as the potential break out heroine of this sad, sorry tale.  I'd love it if at least one Duggar would completely break free and live a happy non fundie life.  Ideally with a tell all book thrown into the mix.  If not Jana then hopefully one of the others sooner or later.