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The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

SpaghettiTuesdays

By SpaghettiTuesdays
in Counting On

Scarlett45
Message added by Scarlett45,

Discussing the charges against Jana is fine, but do not post any information that reveals her address/contact information- even if said documents are public (i.e. a part of court proceedings.)

Discussing charges against Jana is NOT a jumping off point to speculate on other instances abuse/neglect etc towards the M-children or to elaborate on Josh's conviction and potential victims.  

 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

If that's a skirt, it has a weird panel in the front. If you look at her ankle, they look like pants. Jana, Abbie and JD probably spent 5 minutes arranging whatever Jana's wearing and have bets on the number of pants vs skirt posts.

They almost look like MC Hammer pants. U Can't Touch This, lol.

I'm pretty sure the black thing at her ankle is an ankle strap on the shoe. I don't think those are slides. They're sandals with a thin strap that goes up the back of the heel to an ankle strap. 

As you said, a whole lot of arranging going on to spur speculation about Jana in pants.

If that really happened -- and unfortunately it's a fair bet that it did -- what a sick and stupid use of the time and effort of three fully-grown adults who will one day have to make their way in life without a TeeVee show and, ultimately, without JB's money.

Of course, they all willfully remain ignoramuses and total vassals to two mean-spirited assholes, so I suppose that's the kind of thing we could expect them to be doing. 

ETA: It also alarms me that it's now 18 years since I first began watching the Duggars in horror and they're still the terrifying shitheads I immediately thought they were in 2002.  They've harmed their own family and harmed as much of the wider world as they can manage -- and they aspire to harm it more. And they DO mean to do every harmful thing they do.....They DON'T THINK they're harming anything, of course. But they're adults with the average amount of brain matter and life experience and enough money to inform themselves better about the world beyond their noses.....And if they tried to do that at all it seems to me that, by now, they would have found some evidence that would suggest they should change their super-fearful and super-controlling ways and tone down their two overweening egos at least a little. They have to see how their children are frozen in place, so it seems to me they should be able to imagine at least some bad consequences for those children down the road because of that -- even if they are too narrow-minded to view their children as individuals who have a right to individuality without constant interference. 

18 years being pissed at the Duggars. And I still don't have high blood pressure. I must have a very lucky genetic profile. I really should just give it up, since it's clear by now they're never going to change, which means I'll never feel anything but aggravation. Who needs it? I'm not going to learn anything more about them at this late date. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Ijustwantsomechips
Ijustwantsomechips

Maybe Jana needs her own thread as a token of the respect she’ll never garner as a single woman in Gothardland.  

andromeda331
andromeda331

How about both hop in the plane close the door really quickly and fly off.  Abbie: "Where are we going?" JD: Cayman Islands. We're elope. And we're not coming back! Abbie: Wait we need

BitterApple
BitterApple

Wow, so this is what, the fourth guy to publicly release a statement denying involvement with Jana? That must be doing wonders for her self-esteem.  These guys are starting to piss me off, though

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Temperance

Temperance

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

I'm pretty sure the black thing at her ankle is an ankle strap on the shoe. I don't think those are slides. They're sandals with a thin strap that goes up the back of the heel to an ankle strap. 

As you said, a whole lot of arranging going on to spur speculation about Jana in pants.

If that really happened -- and unfortunately it's a fair bet that it did -- what a sick and stupid use of the time and effort of three fully-grown adults who will one day have to make their way in life without a TeeVee show and, ultimately, without JB's money.

Of course, they all willfully remain ignoramuses and total vassals to two mean-spirited assholes, so I suppose that's the kind of thing we could expect them to be doing. 

ETA: It also alarms me that it's now 18 years since I first began watching the Duggars in horror and they're still the terrifying shitheads I immediately thought they were in 2002.  They've harmed their own family and harmed as much of the wider world as they can manage -- and they aspire to harm it more. And they DO mean to do every harmful thing they do.....They DON'T THINK they're harming anything, of course. But they're adults with the average amount of brain matter and life experience and enough money to inform themselves better about the world beyond their noses.....And if they tried to do that at all it seems to me that, by now, they would have found some evidence that would suggest they should change their super-fearful and super-controlling ways and tone down their two overweening egos at least a little. They have to see how their children are frozen in place, so it seems to me they should be able to imagine at least some bad consequences for those children down the road because of that -- even if they are too narrow-minded to view their children as individuals who have a right to individuality without constant interference. 

18 years being pissed at the Duggars. And I still don't have high blood pressure. I must have a very lucky genetic profile. I really should just give it up, since it's clear by now they're never going to change, which means I'll never feel anything but aggravation. Who needs it? I'm not going to learn anything more about them at this late date. 

It's not 18 years.  The first special was 14 kids and pregnant again. In that special Michelle gave birth to Jackson. Jackson was born in May 2004.  I looked it up and the originally airdate was September 6, 2004. It will be 16 since they first hit television, and that's longer than I thought. 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

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(edited)
2 hours ago, Temperance said:

It's not 18 years.  The first special was 14 kids and pregnant again. In that special Michelle gave birth to Jackson. Jackson was born in May 2004.  I looked it up and the originally airdate was September 6, 2004. It will be 16 since they first hit television, and that's longer than I thought. 

For me it is 18 years! I didn't start following them because of tv. I started following them when I was covering a few potentially consequential and interesting U.S. Senate races in 2002.

That's when JB was challenging incumbent Ark. Sen. Tim Hutchinson. I followed that race and wrote about it throughout the year -- it was interesting to people for several reasons, and as I explored it it got more interesting, really. To write my stuff, I looked up a lot of Arkansas records, talked to a bunch of people in the state (I've spoken with both the Hutchinson brothers in DC,  but though I tried to speak with JB, I never managed to get hold of him.).

Because of JB and M's long association with Gothard, I also researched him, his programs, his reach into corridors of power, and his place among other similar conservative Christian cults and homeschoolers. Anyway, as the years went on, I ended up writing quite a bit about all of these things.

So back in those early years I got what I considered a pretty full picture of Jim Bob, his personality, and the things he believed and wanted -- and I was horrified! .....

And I was even more horrified later when I found out that they would be doing tv shows! And that they were continuing to pump out kid after kid and dress them in handmaid's tale clothes! I've never watched the shows -- except for a handful of times, three or four, when I've watched part or most of an episode. I have watched a lot of individual clips on youtube over time, though.

Anyway, long story short -- my horrified fascination with the Duggars and Gothard had made me keep following them all this time. I've never been a "fan" in any way, and I've never considered them entertainment.  The idea that they were being sold as benign and virtuous and adorable...yeah....that horrified me, too! (Can't get off that word...) I think Gothard, Jim Bob and Michelle have never been anything but a danger to the Duggar children and to America. And it's been 18 years and I never get any happier about them!

 

ETA: As you said, @Temperance, 16 years is a heckuva long time -- and a surprisingly long time -- too!

Edited by Churchhoney
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
11 hours ago, ginger90 said:


3 pictures:

 

 

Oh, good grief. Is this another one who thinks he's hot stuff?

You're not allowed to date, you know. Or even make friends other than your "best friends," all of whom are in your nuclear family and sleep in the other bunk beds in your room. (except maybe for the two who pretend to sleep some place else right now so one of them can be a member of the legislature (so JB can still pretend he's a member of the legislature, or at least the founder of a political dynasty))  

In any case, photos trying to show attitude from a guy in your position whose job is mowing lawns for his father aren't just silly but totally pointless. And pitiful.

Run away from home. Surely over the years you've met an apostate Gothardite family somewhere who'd be happy to take you in and help you join the real world. Buy a burner phone at the drug store with no JB-and-M tracking software on it and phone them.

Edited by Churchhoney
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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

20 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Oh, good grief. Is this another one who thinks he's hot stuff?

You're not allowed to date, you know. Or even make friends other than your "best friends," all of whom are in your nuclear family and sleep in the other bunk beds in your room. (except maybe for the two who pretend to sleep some place else right now so one of them can be a member of the legislature)   In any case, photos trying to show attitude from a guy in your position whose job is mowing lawns for his father aren't just silly but totally pointless. And pitiful.

Run away from home. Surely over the years you've met an apostate Gothardite family somewhere who'd be happy to take you in and help you join the real world. Buy a burner phone at the drug store with no JB-and-M tracking software on it and phone them.

That might all happen when the money runs out.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

That might all happen when the money runs out.

Yep. That's what I think, too. If it weren't for money, some Duggarlings would have claimed their individual souls and scattered long ago. They're hostages to JB's wallet and LLCs.......

A lot of the story is driven, I think, by his dependence on his self-image as the leader of a giant clan and his practiced use of rewards and withheld rewards from his money pots to ensure that his self-image is never threatened by defections. His every move is designed to protect a kind of fragile and scared ego that cherishes that persona, I think. (I have no theory about what motivates loony Meeechelle, however... 😁 )

Edited by Churchhoney
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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

3 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Yep. That's what I think, too. If it weren't for money, some Duggarlings would have claimed their individual souls and scattered long ago. They're hostages to JB's wallet and LLCs.......

A lot of the story is driven, I think, by his dependence on his self-image as the leader of a giant clan and his practiced use of rewards and withheld rewards from his money pots to ensure that his self-image is never threatened by defections.

Yes, we've had this discussion before. I just don't think JB is smart enough to figure all that out and even know its happening. Gothard figured it out though, and JB & M still follow his bullshit.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
57 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Yes, we've had this discussion before. I just don't think JB is smart enough to figure all that out and even know its happening. Gothard figured it out though, and JB & M still follow his bullshit.

Oh, yeah, I basically agree. JB's largely just running on instinct. ....

However, I still think that just about anyone -- including him -- does have enough brains to notice some things that are going on in his own vicinity and wonder whether his actions (conscious or otherwise) might be making things worse for the people immediately surrounding him! .... So the way I see it is that he's most likely allowing himself to run on instinct. Because that's producing the results he wants.

I refuse to believe that any adult who has the brains to hire LLC-creating lawyers and buy slum properties and so on is too innocent and dumb to even ever imagine that his actions (knee-jerk or not) might have unforeseen consequences for his children and others! I think a lot of people -- JB included -- simply refuse to pay attention to any such thoughts or observations when they flit across their brains because they get a suspicion that those thoughts might ultimately threaten what they want for ME ME ME ME......(Hell, I do this at times -- we all do.)

But, to my mind, that's still a sin, a wrongdoing -- it's just a sin of omission rather than commission. He refuses to question anything he's doing instinctively -- even though signs are there that maybe it's a little bit weird and thus, perhaps, wrong. And he refuses to question it because what he does serves his immediate purposes.

I don't think being in denial in order to protect your own interests excuses behavior that's damaging to others, such as your own children. Particularly when the denier is as old as Jim Bob and c;learly quite canny in at least some ways. He's smart enough to have taken advantage of many many situations in his life.....when he felt that using his brain there would further what he already knew he wanted! So to me that shows he's smart enough to figure out something about this. But doesn't, because things are just the way he likes them. So he just doesn't bother to even consider the consequences to others.

I definitely agree about Gothard figuring this out, though! He figured it out, figured out that a ton of people out there wanted it if he could devise methods for selling it, figured out multiple ways to productize it, monetized it for decades because he'd dreamed up ways to get people to pay him over and over and over and made bank...... The only thing that did him in was his excess desire to play footsie with vulnerable teenage girls with sausage curls, calf-length full skirts and flip flops.

(His knowledge of this phenomenon is what delivered the crowds of vulnerable teenage girls to his doorstep, too, of course. Business genius. Moral moron. )

 

 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Tikichick

Tikichick

(edited)

Sorry, but I will never buy that JB cares one iota about his agenda or actions negatively impacting anybody.   In his field of vision, his agenda is godly and just, therefore any and everyone else is simply chaff.  It is right and just that his godly agenda lines up with what JB wants and what suits him best because it's divinely inspired, don't you know.   

ETA:  A servant's hearts is for other people, preferably those who serve his wants and needs. 

 

Edited by Tikichick
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Tikichick

Tikichick

20 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

I’d like to see him bust out with actual bible verses. But I doubt he could even do that.

Well, one would think that he should be able to spit out a verse or two by now.  But I think between the fact that he's used to simply functioning as a cog who performs manual labor in JB's circus and was never actually educated or led to believe there was any reason to actually think for himself or speak his own thoughts and merely parrot JB's arrogant, smug and superior prattle, I figure "Because, Bible" qualifies in Jed!'s view as profound and worthy of a mic drop.      

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Temperance

Temperance

14 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

What does grow physically mean? You'll get taller? Gain weight? Grow some muscles?

They don't mention growing mentally or intellectually, so I guess you'll still be dumb after this program.  

Well it certainly doesn't seem to help them grow hair. Actually I wonder if ALERT is so stressful it's partially responsible for early hair loss. 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

2 hours ago, BigBingerBro said:

spwdq3ti6ei51.jpgMan, they are promoting the hell out of this:

The Gothard enterprises have been bleeding more money every year for a long time now. Everybody involved in them is probably pretty desperate by now, I would think. Looking at their 990s, it's hard to see how much longer they can stumble on. Their old standbys like the homeschooling stuff hardly bring in anything any more.

I guess the Duggs would be pretty desolate if the empire had to close up. Doesn't seem like they get many -- or any -- other invites to be big shots or get paid for their "expertise." 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
11 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Enrollment is certainly in the toilet, so David Waller called out the big guns. I imagine the Duggars do sell.

Yeah, and I think it's also telling that they chose the most normal-looking and normal-seeming one to make the pitch. And that that's Sinner Twin. 

They still push ATI, too, but they seem to be hoping to gain more from that in international markets. I was just looking at the Australia website -- since the Big Dugg Guns were pulled out a couple years ago to try to goose the Gothardism there.....and they seem to be pushing ATI more than here.....

They have a one-sentence description of their curriculum that epitomizes the "today we're all learning about bankruptcy" thing. It's hideous and hilarious, and I don't remember seeing it put just this way before --- 

"Curriculum Centered Around Christ

"The ATI curriculum uses the teachings of Jesus Christ, given in the Sermon on the Mount, as the primary source for teaching linguistics, law, history, science, and medicine. This approach makes ATI unique as it builds education on the foundation of faith in Christ and understanding His ways. This equips fathers, mothers, sons, and daughters to view every aspect of life from a Biblical perspective."

It's unique all right. 

 

Edited by Churchhoney
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JoanArc

JoanArc

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

Enrollment is certainly in the toilet, so David Waller called out the big guns. I imagine the Duggars do sell.

 And now they’re running a free Covid infection with every brainwashing. This is how businesses go bankrupt.  I’m sure the snakes will find a way to make money even in the complete collapse of their empire. 

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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

(edited)
1 hour ago, Temperance said:

For people who don't follow the Bates, (I know you do, Sew) the Bates are also shilling ALERT with their son Jackson. 

Not surprised. The Bateses are the other "big guns" of IBLP/ATI.

And Jackson hasn't even attended yet. He'll be the first Bates son to go. The others came of age when the Bateses were broke and before Gil sat on the IBLP board of directors.

Edited by Sew Sumi
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
12 hours ago, Chicklet said:

Hopefully very few people sign up to go and their whole enterprise crumbles into dust as it should have long ago. 

And the hot Duggar is slipping a little. Duggar curse is unfolding in front of us.

They still seem to have pretty much land to sell.

In their 2018 990 they were still claiming assets of over $60,000,000 although they've been periodically selling off some assets for quite a while now. Every significant infusion of cash they've gotten in recent years has been from sale of assets. I would think that the Illinois stuff would have been gone before 2018 and that the more recent sales have been holdings elsewhere, maybe Texas, but, of course, who knows. And who knows, also, whether what they still own is really worth $60,000,000 in actual market terms.

They clearly don't want to give up but I would think there's some limit to how much of the Texas property they can sell off. Given the way they describe Alert, some land is needed to pull that off. So they can't shrink down to nothing and survive. But the core group of grifters certainly seems determined to keep milking their scheme for as long as possible. Alert is kind of their flagship now, for the U.S. operation anyway. The homeschooling stuff seems to be still selling in some countries. And they're really beefing up the Embassy Media thing......

There's now some kind of subscription model for much of that website, and they've pulled on board a bunch of people who are supposed experts in, well, pretty much everything. For example, they have a whole section of stuff now on music for your godliness, with what appear to be video classes in "gospel piano music," which I assume is stuff to teach you how to play piano like Erin Bates. (which seems pretty easy to me, if you have any piano knowledge at all -- just spread your hands into the widest major chord you can and bang bang bang bang bang your way up and down the keyboard in 4/4 time.).

And there are video "lectures" excoriating modern and contemporary music of all kinds.....They have some guy who, along with his wife, did worship music and then, apparently horrified when they discovered the actual "philosophy" that lies behind "contemporary" music, fled to what, I assume, is more like the Gothard approach. This guy, like others on the site, has a day job. He's a software developer......

I guess (?) they've declared Embassy Media a publishing house for the right kind of Christianity and they're soliciting for content creators, possibly among people who were never officially Gothard even back when Gothard was an actual thing but who share their basic views of fearfulness, control-freak mania, horror at the advance of secularism, homophobia, patriarchal passion, etc. ......They've got anti-evolutionist Ray Comfort and the Benham Brothers (who almost got an HGTV show until the network found out about their loud and virulent homophobia)and many more. And they are white white white white white and male male male male male male, except for four couples and the four oldest Duggar daughters (who don't actually show up on the people page, just on their family page). 

Yes, for all the Duggar fans that TLC has evilly created, they've expanded their collection of Duggar AV, now calling that section "Duggar Family" instead of only selling JB and M stuff. .... At this point the "family" material in question seems to be just really old video from meetings starring the four oldest girls teaching parroting the Gothard crap that was shoved down their throats all their lives about stuff like "sibling relationships" (yeah, that would be profound), "the six most important relationships in a girl's life," and "accountability partners with your parents." Jill is part of this group, of course, and I'm guessing JB won't want her long long hair ousted from here, since he may make a few bucks from her contribution.

Interestingly, while the site doesn't list Gothard among their experts, when you "search all media" by "popularity," many many of the first things that come up are videos and audios of old Bill himself, along with a bunch of Gil and Kelly and JB and M stuff......Seems to me that's evidence that, despite their obvious attempt to shake free of Gothard's now-publicly-tarnished name and turn into some new moneymaking entity that can sell to a larger group of conservative Christians, most of the sales are still being made to old Gothardites.....No other way to explain why BG's stuff would top the popularity charts -- he holds the top two places and four of the top 8 places -- when the subject-matter pages and the expert list don't mention him at all.

 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Aethera

Aethera

Folks, as is stated in the very short, bright red mod note that has been pinned directly above the reply box for weeks, discussion of Jed's run for office is off topic until it's shown on episodes, when it will then be discussable only in context of what is shown on the show. He is a politician, and thus the Politics Policy applies. Warnings will be issued for violations. 

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MunichNark

MunichNark

True😱😱 HOW did those "parents" manage to raise 19 children without a single personality trait? Every last one of them is deadly dull and bland and boring. How is that even possible?

All the Duggar males do not even qualify for nomination, for they all are to a point so damn boring and entitled that they are indistinguishable from one another.

The girls have at least recognisable features but none are endearing.

Jana is human tofu, as is Jinger with her pretentious notions these days. Jessa is smug and lazy, Joy, well at least there IS some spunk there it seems. Jill remains to be seen but she has been a bumbling tone-deaf fool so far and the poor pitiable lost girls are too depressed to be anything.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

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(edited)
11 hours ago, MunichNark said:

Can we have a ballot on the dullest duggar?😂 it still beggars belief that amongst 19 children not one has any real personality, interests or talents.

 

They have been squashed. They continue to be squashed. 

I know this because I was squashed. When I was a kid, to pretty much everyone I appeared to be the quietest, most timid, most boring old-ladyish uninteresting dull non-energetic no-fun gray un-adventurous solitary conservative unmemorable lifeless lump of nothing ever. In my home there was no room for me to be anything but that. Being anything but that was actively, continually discouraged and squashed. 

I'm not the quietest, most timid, most boring old-ladyish uninteresting dull non-energetic no-fun gray solitary conservative unmemorable lifeless lump of nothing ever. In fact by nature I'm quite the opposite of most of those things.

But none of that manifested outwardly -- and none of it blossomed at all -- until I got out of that environment. I had been adapting to what that environment seemed to require if you were going to survive. Like those frogs that, when drought shows up, burrow deep under the river bed and go into a state of suspended animation for years and years and years, until the rains come again at last.  And then they come out to jump. 

Kids tend to adapt to what gives the best chance of survival in their environment.  That's nature operating. (Yeah, the mechanisms of evolution, you fucking ignoramus Duggar parents who've ordered your kids not to believe in that.) For many people in a squashing-individualism environment, fitting in with that environment seems best done by squashing themselves, one way or another. Duggarlings -- squashed. 

And yet the fiction persists that these two bastards love their kids.

Here's how Jim Bob and Meeeechelle "love" their kids: Picture a large stack of hundred dollar bills. 

And you "love" those bills. Why would't you? They show you're rich. They open doors for you. They are the means by which you get stuff you want. 

But do you "love'" those bills as individual serial numbers? Do you know their numerical details? Do you know their crinkles and wrinkles? 

More important -- do you love the thought that each of those bills is an individual, particular bill with its own desires and its own ideas about what it should buy? NO. You do not. if that's what it meant to love those dollar bills, you would not love them, Jim Bob and Meeechelle. 

But what we're talking about Jim Bob and Meeeechelle "loving" isn't a stack of hundred-dollar bills. It's a stack of kids. 

And, guess what, you two disgusting terminally selfish creeps, when it comes to loving people, it's an absolute requirement to know and love their specific serial numbers and their crinkles and wrinkles, to see them as absolutely individual and not in any way interchangeable, and to respect and cherish the fact that they are the ones who decide what they'll be and buy, not you. 

That's what love means with people, rather than hundred-dollar bills. With people, if love doesn't mean that, then it's not love at all, you creepy worthless "parents of the year." 

Okay, rant over.....Yeah, the 19 Duggar kids show no real personalities, interests or talents. And, in my opinion, this is why! 

And look, the parents squash the kids. And then the world fills up with probably nice-enough people who nevertheless loathe and despise and disparage and ridicule the kids. When it is not their fault. I don't want to despise and ridicule your children, JB and M. But not only did you squash them, you put them on tv, where the warping you accomplished is wide open for the whole world to see.

I've said this before in the last 24 hours. I want to say it again. Fuck you, Jim Bob and Meeeechelle Duggar. Just fuck you. 

(Fuck you, also, TLC. For bolstering the sickening egos of these two loathsome bastards by putting them on TeeVee and making them feel even more justified in their terminally selfish behavior toward their children. And for creating an audience of millions who despise and disparage people for what they've been turned into by someone else because the pair of someone elses have been warping them for their own selfish purposes since birth.)

 

Edited by Churchhoney
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MsJamieDornan

MsJamieDornan

On 8/22/2020 at 7:52 AM, Churchhoney said:
On 8/21/2020 at 7:42 PM, Chicklet said:

Hopefully very few people sign up to go and their whole enterprise crumbles into dust as it should have long ago. 

And the hot Duggar is slipping a little. Duggar curse is unfolding in front of us.

They still seem to have pretty much land to sell.

In their 2018 990 they were still claiming assets of over $60,000,000 although they've been periodically selling off some assets for quite a while now. Every significant infusion of cash

I thought for just a minute that you meant the Duggars.   $60,000,000 ? um, no.

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Scarlett45
Message added by Scarlett45,

Discussing the charges against Jana is fine, but do not post any information that reveals her address/contact information- even if said documents are public (i.e. a part of court proceedings.)

Discussing charges against Jana is NOT a jumping off point to speculate on other instances abuse/neglect etc towards the M-children or to elaborate on Josh's conviction and potential victims.  

 

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