S05.E04: Let the Children & the Childbearers Toil

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Following up on intel from a mysterious source, Mrs. S heads on the road with Sarah to investigate a lead on a Neolution defector. Meanwhile, an unexpected reunion takes place on the island, while Cosima's research leads her to a terrible discovery.

Promo:

[possibilities]

When did Helena become the calm and wise one, let alone someone Sarah would go to for advice?

I felt bad for Felix being sent away. He's given up everything for the family and they just treat him like an errand boy. I don't mind that all the men (except Westmoreland) are basically just set dressing and helpmeets on this show, except it does bother me when they treat Felix that way. Donnie gets to be a 3D character, even if he's a helpmeet, but Felix tends to just be given assignments and it bothers me that they use him and don't seem to care at all about his feelings. At least Donnie has agency and Allison loves him.

I was disappointed it was Coady in the chair... for a moment I thought it would somehow be MK. For a second I thought maybe somehow Delphine had managed to find her, revive her, and give her the cure. And then we saw who it really was-- that was the cruelest tease they've ever done on the show, to let us see the dark hair first, and give me a tiny ray of fantastical hope.

All the eugenics people seem like psychopaths to me, all the factions seem irredeemably horrible, and so far I can't really figure out why any of them think they're better than the others.

[natyxg]

Wow, I was dying to know Coady's past and I was so dying to find out what happened to her after we last saw her.

And wow, what a cool idea it is to dedicate a full episode to explain the "monster" in the woods they introduced two seconds ago, I was dying to know about that, it's so awesome that it seems like it will be one of the mysteries of the season.

Super cool.

Disclaimer: This post was full of sarcasm.

PS: I imagine Delphine told S about Coady for some reason.

Edited July 2, 2017 by natyxg

[Glade]

Does all this new, unnecessary backstory really pair up with what we learned back in season 2 from Sam Duncan?  When is this love triangle between Coady, Susan, and P.T. supposed to have taken place, before or after Susan faked her death and thus separated from her husband?  I can certainly see why this is the last season. 

I thought the woman in the chair was Susie Chen with horrible neolution plastic surgery or something for a few moments, it took me a long time to remember who the hell that was.  She did not need to return to the show, Susan should have just killed her, I don't know why all the factions prefer just disappearing people to obscure clinics.  Maybe she and her imminent escape will be what brings Mark back to the show?  But I really don't want her around bothering Mark.  Mark and Ira should be cured/deweaponized some other way. I hope Ira gets more time/development next episode, maybe some scenes with Cosima. 

[natyxg]

8 minutes ago, Glade said:

Does all this new, unnecessary backstory really pair up with what we learned back in season 2 from Sam Duncan?  When is this love triangle between Coady, Susan, and P.T. supposed to have taken place, before or after Susan faked her death and thus separated from her husband?  I can certainly see why this is the last season.

Supposedly the Castors and the Ledas happened because PT let them both work separately, so I imagine this was all before her husband. But yeah, it doesn't feel like it fits with the other stuff. The impression back then was that Susan was recruited by Neolution around the time she faked her death, or at least after Rachel was born. I don't remember the details, but back when Sam talked about their past the whole clone thing seemed like it was something that came out naturally out of their research, no? I mean, that they just came up with it and then the government picked them up? 

Whatever, what I'm going for is that now it sounds even more convoluted because then Susan was faking the whole time with her husband steering things and pretending that they were happening naturally. That sounds exhausting and like why didn't she and Coady just work with PT on the island? Why involve the military? Etc.

 I don't know if I'm explaining myself right. But yeah, they're just making shit up as they go along, most likely.

[justmehere]

Here's how I see it:

I think Susan and Coady started working for Westmoreland sometime well before cloning began. There have been various genetic experiments under his control, most likely over a long period of time. -- Remember the Cold River info Sarah found? Now that we know there's this "monster" in the woods, I'm guessing that P.T. was probably connected to the Cold River experiments.

Susan probably either already knew or soon met Ethan Duncan and brought him in on the cloning efforts (and married him at some point). Ethan found Kendal, and cloning succeeded -- with deliberate defects Susan included to prevent reproduction. Ledas can't conceive; Castors are tainted and also happen to self-destruct.

I can't remember all of what Marion Bowles (Topside lady from S2) said, but I think it was about funding drying up (government support?), and so Leda and Castor were split. That was the story, anyway -- she was a corporate player, not privy to all the details if she only knew of Castor as a rumor for so long. Anyway, the military took control of the boys -- perhaps to intentionally reduce the effects of nurturing on their development -- so the gov't wasn't entirely out, but it became a secret project.

Meanwhile Dyad and Topside corporations took over running Leda, and the girls were allowed greater variety in their upbringing -- and showed greater individualism due to the effects of nurturing, despite being genetic identicals -- providing contrasting data to Castor. It was all still ultimately controlled by Westmoreland -- top of the pyramid.

Coady, (God, I hate that bitch), "wasn't squeamish" and decided to weaponize the boys' defect. Evie Cho ran a separate genetic experiment, and she wasn't squeamish either. (Don't miss her a bit.) All situations started blowing up (poor Paul!) and Westmoreland kidnapped Delphine, thought Coady dead, and shut down Evie. He then reorganized, putting Rachel in charge.

How Coady got from Ferdinand to Susan, I don't know. Susan wants her alive for some reason -- she says to protect herself and Ira but how/why, we don't officially know (but really, so there can be a showdown later, no doubt). Maybe Coady has something on Westmoreland? We'll see later.

Anyway, I'm guessing Susan faked her death because Ethan was too soft-hearted. He wanted to stop cloning. She absolutely wanted to continue. Susan might be a shade better than Coady, but she wasn't so moral that she stopped them from turning Rachel over to Dyad/Leekie to raise. Actually -- she might have objected. She said something in this ep. about how damaged Rachel was -- P.T.'s corporate monster -- so maybe it was his directive, another experiment in lack of nurturing (or in taking it away, since she was well-loved until about age 7 or 8). Maybe Westmoreland thought Ethan had to go and "made" Susan fake her death. Or, a combination of both their decisions. Whatever the case, Susan talked to Rachel about the hard decisions (e.g. whether or not to treat Charlotte), and is willing to make them herself.

Wait, I was going to say Susan doesn't go as far as Coady, but who ordered Helsinki? If Susan was in charge of Neolution and Leda -- is that on her? If Susan ordered the hit, it could explain the connection with Ferdinand -- in which case she's deluding herself about being better than Coady. (Or did Marion order Helsinki?)

It certainly is involved, but it does kind of all fit together. The producers said all along that they had a five-year plan, so any confusion may come more from the execution rather than the planning. Of course, I could be completely wrong in how I see it.

P.S. -- And then the Proletheans: Henrik had a connection (it escapes me just now), stole the genetic material to create his own experiments, but failed given that his "son" died. Meanwhile, Tomas was a fundamentalist or something -- another who went off on his own tangent -- and corrupted Helena into killing her sestras. How he found her is a question, or was the awful convent where she was raised connected somehow? It seemed like he was part of her upbringing. We may never learn more about that part of the story.

Edited July 2, 2017 by justmehere

[AftermathTV]

-PT is now Susan's keeper. Neither have really done a lick of good for Rachel, if only Ethan were still here.

-Freaky tooth. The holes that thing keeps leaving in animals is vomit-inducing.

-Kira not having any of Sarah's interrogation. #StopBlamingRachel

-Percival gave Susan back her weird Freudian clone courtship. Time to start the mission you were bullied into, beta Ira. 

-Apparently both Sarah and the comic boys have the same level of need to know intel. Delphine really rubbed off on S.

-Nice play Sarah, the splash in her face helps get out the aggression.

-"It's not his fault". Code for "it's completely his fault". This creature is a tortured human experiment of our big bad.

-Kendall set the tone for these mother/daughter complexities. "What it means to become you". 

-Delphine is the one close to HQ. Unless PT has some way of hacking into clone brains(like that swan ordeal?), I'm not sure why Sarah is left in the dark.

-Ira is just Susan's consolation prize. Hopefully Ira is ready to dump this dinosaur.

-First Sestra Session of 2017. Love it when these two unite. Core of the show, honestly. Fight me, people who think Cosima/Alison holds precedence.

-Helena's got a tongueless old friend to call on. Wonder if that doctor is now tongueless too. P.S. I'd buy a copy of Helena's memoir.

-Trust me Adele, I'd have an even colder welcome for you. Not a side character I find amusing. Even if she's out of the clone closet.

-Helena is the mother MVP. Yes, share all horrors. Kids don't like being patronized, especially in a life or death battle with them as a centerpiece.

-Sarah feels the flow of sisterhood! Rachel will never have this tingly sensation. Helena will have miracle twins that WON'T try to kill each other.

-Master of DisguiSe. 

-Virginia Coady! Not someone I expected a return visit to, even though we never knew where Ferdinand took her. I don't think it was to a lobotomy.

-Aw, sweet gift from Helena. Keep drooling on yourself, bitch.

-Original obsession that dates back pre-cloning. "Never been squeamish".

-Mud is a stupid kind of brave. But mostly stupid since Cosima has been tailing her with ease and Cosima apparently isn't under lock and key or being watched/guarded.

-Revenge strangle. Is she going to use that key card and re-appear later down the line? If she does get out, I think Helena will have some "love" of her own to give back.

-Susan vs. Coady. Game on. Ira/Susan aren't protected if she escapes.

-Felix finally got a job and he's talking about art openings. Oy.

-"Your corporate raised psychopath is finally paying dividends". This is one brutal custody battle. Super Spy Ira.

-To The Future: AKA S5E05: Mud stops avoiding the questions, Sarah gives Kira respect, Rachel keeps hurting her mommy, and Cophine play dress-up.

[Ravenya003]

Wow, does anyone on this show ever stay dead? (Apart from Paul?) I'll be annoyed if the final season sees return appearances from every random character they've ever introduced (Coady, Adele, Susan) but never bothers to explain what the heck happened to Kira's father. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

So Mud is taking care of Sloth.

I had to laugh at Charlotte and her new friend just walking through the woods looking for the lost pig. Just goes to show that kids get scared a lot less easily than adults. Even after Mud told them to get the hell out of the woods, they were just kind of strolling back (in Charlotte's defense, I don't know how much faster she can go due to her leg brace, but still).

Hilarious that Helena is somehow the one calming Sarah down now. Of course, I knew she was still the same old Helena when she said that after the babies, she and Sarah should go kill Rachel and PT.

For the record, I can't take PT seriously as a victim because (1) every time someone says PT, I automatically think PT Barnum and then I start picturing clowns (2) at certain angles, he looks like Seth Myers in a wig doing an SNL skit. I keep waiting for him to look straight at the camera and say, "REALLY?"

I feel bad that Felix is getting sent off on another errand (and I still don't trust Adele - when she showed up at his place, I half expected her to knock him out while his back was turned and kidnap Kira). I loved that his reason for not wanting to go was that he needed to be there for Kira...and he has an art show in three weeks. All joking aside, I would have been fine with his reason for not going to be "BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO DO THIS." He's right that he needs to be around for Kira, especially now that she's seeing Rachel at Dyad and fighting with Sarah. Kira needs someone who she trusts, who she will talk to, and right now Felix is the only person really fulfilling that role.

I was so excited to see who was in that wheelchair and then it was Coady, ugh. I swear, comparing Susan to Coady to PT is just an exercise in comparing now nuts they all are. They all feel so justified in what they're doing.

[Lady Calypso]

I also really dislike Felix being treated the way that he is. He is the only one to get through to Kira to some extent. She is shutting Sarah out, and although Siobhan has a better handle on her, she hasn't told her anything either. Felix hasn't gotten all that much to do in the last few seasons, though. The show seems obsessed with others like Donnie, Ira, and even Scott (and I love Scott). I want Felix to get in on the action, but I don't want him being shipped off to different countries for it. I also don't like Adele comes back and is already in the know. Unless she's going to turn out to be a backstabber, I just don't care. 

I really didn't like this episode. Coady's return didn't make me happy in the slightest. Out of all the people they could have had, they bring back Coady? And with that blatant shot of her stealing the visitor's card, she's clearly on her way to escaping to The Island of Dr. Moreau, to confront Susan and PT. Which...eh, no thanks. Unless it ends in all three of them dying, I still don't care. I also don't remember that entire backstory, so it makes things all the more confusing. 

So, Mud has been the caretaker of The Monster. Ok? So, he was the first experiment gone wrong. What importance does he have now, though? Why should I care about his role in the grand scheme of things? 

Surprisingly, Helena's return made the episode a little less shitty. Her and Sarah had a nice moment, and I really am reminded on Helena's redemption being quite successful. Hopefully that doesn't mean that she's going to sacrifice herself at the end. 

[Pallas]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

So, Mud has been the caretaker of The Monster. Ok? So, he was the first experiment gone wrong. What importance does he have now, though? Why should I care about his role in the grand scheme of things? 

Surprisingly, Helena's return made the episode a little less shitty. Her and Sarah had a nice moment, and I really am reminded on Helena's redemption being quite successful. Hopefully that doesn't mean that she's going to sacrifice herself at the end. 

With Helena now maternal and wise, Team Clone now has an opening for a righteous new killing machine with parent issues, and the same parents. 

[natyxg]

Quote

I think Susan and Coady started working for Westmoreland sometime well before cloning began. There have been various genetic experiments under his control, most likely over a long period of time. -- Remember the Cold River info Sarah found? Now that we know there's this "monster" in the woods, I'm guessing that P.T. was probably connected to the Cold River experiments.

I think the person in the woods is the child with the wonderful genome that they destroyed with their experiments.

The Leda's problem is not that they are infertile, they were designed that way. Their problem is their illness.

And lawd, I had forgotten the politheans (or whatever).

Speaking of other stuff, are they going to explain the swan in Rachel's eye? That seems forgotten.

Important thing to point out, though: Mrs. S. looked super hot with that disguise.

[justmehere]

1 hour ago, natyxg said:

I think the person in the woods is the child with the wonderful genome that they destroyed with their experiments.

The Leda's problem is not that they are infertile, they were designed that way. Their problem is their illness.

I didn't quite finish the thought about PT and the guy in the woods. Yes, I agree that he's the child they mentioned. It just reminded me of the Cold River info and made me think that PT Westmoreland probably had something to do with those genetic experiments as well. They happened many decades ago, but he's old enough, and there is a connection (Helena even knew something about it).

--The Ledas were designed infertile, but it has a side effect of spreading tumors. They start in the uterus, as Cosima and Delphine found out when doing an autopsy on Jennifer (I think that was her name). The illness is a byproduct of the design change. Similarly, Castors are infertile, and they have two byproducts: they transmit it like an STD, and they self-destruct. They've all been trying to find a cure so the clones don't all die, but it has to come from the original, unaltered genome. It's the alteration that caused the illnesses.

 

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I loved that his reason for not wanting to go was that he needed to be there for Kira...and he has an art show in three weeks. All joking aside, I would have been fine with his reason for not going to be "BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO DO THIS." He's right that he needs to be around for Kira, especially now that she's seeing Rachel at Dyad and fighting with Sarah. Kira needs someone who she trusts, who she will talk to, and right now Felix is the only person really fulfilling that role.

I really hope this doesn't result in Felix being out of the picture for any episodes. He absolutely had justification to say he just didn't want to go, and he was right that Kira needs him. I also loved that he mentioned his art show. Why shouldn't his art be a priority? The whole family is involved in this mess, but Felix is still entitled to some sovereignty, and art is his core, his main means of self-expression.

 

7 hours ago, Ravenya003 said:

Wow, does anyone on this show ever stay dead? (Apart from Paul?) I'll be annoyed if the final season sees return appearances from every random character they've ever introduced (Coady, Adele, Susan) but never bothers to explain what the heck happened to Kira's father. 

I agree with you about Kira's father. They at least need to say something or have him "call" or have some kind of remote input. Even if it's a one-sided conversation -- that's a pretty big ball to drop otherwise.

Ferdinand took Coady away, which gives the impression that he would kill her, but they never said what actually happened. 

Mentioning Kira's dad reminds me that I also hope they bring back Jesse for Helena and the babies.

[possibilities]

7 hours ago, Ravenya003 said:

but never bothers to explain what the heck happened to Kira's father. 

I forgot all about Kira's father, but I still think about what became of Tony (the trans clone).

 

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I really am reminded on Helena's redemption being quite successful. Hopefully that doesn't mean that she's going to sacrifice herself at the end. 

I will never forgive the show if they kill Helena.

The elaborate plot might be easier to follow of there wasn't such a long gap between seasons. I've started to just allow it to blur in my mind: abusers of science are all out to control the clones, clones are out to protect each other, everyone is racing for a cure but for different reasons. Who will be eliminated and then resurrected next? (insert eyebrow pop here)

[AftermathTV]

7 hours ago, Ravenya003 said:

Wow, does anyone on this show ever stay dead? 

Coady was not implied to be dead. She was a loose end.

I have no sympathy for Felix, because he made Ira his errand boy with no hesitation. Plus he gets to hang out with his annoying blood relative like he wanted.

I'm sure Cal will be mentioned as part of Sarah/Kira's happy ending, but I'm not sure if the actor was available. Paul dying really hurt Cal's role as a piece in a love triangle.

[MissLucas]

Looks like I'm in the minority but I really liked this episode. Probably my favorite this season. Finally clone club stops being in flight mode and is returning to fight mode. I loved Mrs S taking control, her and Sarah do make an awesome con-team. And finally things are moving along and we get some answers. Even if they are damn convoluted due to some wonky plotting - but that was to be expected. I did not mind Coady's return but that was probably because I had no expectations who the person they were going to see would be.

Loved seeing Helena - though I wonder how the tongueless nun found her way from Ukraine to Canada. The scene between Helena and Sarah was great.

Phew, I'm glad Kira's mouse is okay and she was 'just' self-experimenting. Also: we finally get some insight into what she's thinking and feeling when she's with an adult who's not just freaking out, well done Felix. But you get no pity from me after having dissed Fondue.

So the 'bear' in the woods is Chimera 0. I have questions. Why are they keeping him alive? He predates Leda and Castor so when did he break out of his cell? Why does the blood on the walls of his cell look so fresh? And if it's not fresh why has nobody bothered to clean things up - that's some bad housekeeping. And what exactly was Mud doing with PT Westmoreland? Looked like he was getting hooked up for dialysis.

Edited July 3, 2017 by MissLucas

[tennisgurl]

I really like that now that the show is getting closer to its end goal, they are giving us some closure to a lot of lingering plot threads, both by plot and by character. Last week we had Allison getting some closure with her dead best friend, and now we get some stuff with Sarah and Mrs. S and their relationship, and Sarah and Helena talking about their past with all the murdering and the twin stuff. Plus they do seem to be trying to tie up the whole mythology and explain what all these disparate groups of clone obsessed weirdoes are up to.

Speaking of, I think I basically get what PT was up to, but his plan seems SUPER convoluted. Like, why both with playing all these people against each other? Why get the military involved? Where does this monster guy (who has never been mentioned or even hinted at before) fit into everything? At least with him, we will probably get some answers soon. Although, if this guy is supposed to peak genes, what the heck are the other clones?!?!

Count me in on someone else annoyed with Mrs. S and Sarah for exiling Felix to Europe to be their errand boy. He shouldn't have to give up his life just to do stuff for them, especially when he clearly doesn't want to, and he has actual stuff he wants to do at home. He is clearly the only person Kira is really opening up to, and he seems like the only one who is actually listening to her. Plus, he has an art show damn it! Art is his livelihood more often than not, and he should be able to try to build up his portfolio! His only other job that I can think of is occasionally being a part time hooker, and I don't think his family would be super pumped about getting further into that career, so let him do his art show! I guess what he's doing is important, and I know he wants to help his family, but it would be nice that his family at least asked him, and didn't just tell him. I will be SUPER pissed if this is the last we see of him until the finale.

[Captanne]

Did this whole episode suck or is it just me?  They can't kill Kira off fast enough.  They are going to do that, right?  Please?  She can go jump in a lake with the annoying Southern drunk. 

 

What has has happened to the show in just a short few weeks?  Allison gone to wreck and ruin, Helena is some guru on a "mountaintop" dispensing wisdom, No one can make up their minds what to do with Delphine, PT Barnum and his circus are inexplicable, and Caliban is now the main attraction?

2 nuggets -- thank God Cosima mentioned the Island of Dr. Moreau (nice continuity, there), and I do like Mud for some reason.

[kelaney]

Can anyone file me in on whatever happened to the bot thing in Sarah's cheek?  I thought Ferdinand said Susan was going to be the one to get it out, but I don't remember anything ever happening to it.  Is that another one of the many things I just don't remember?

[Loandbehold]

13 minutes ago, kelaney said:

Can anyone file me in on whatever happened to the bot thing in Sarah's cheek?  I thought Ferdinand said Susan was going to be the one to get it out, but I don't remember anything ever happening to it.  Is that another one of the many things I just don't remember?

Didn't Evie Cho remove it last season?

[shapeshifter]

At this point there are either so many dropped plots or plots I can't remember that I'm just watching it like it's Bewitched or I Dream of Jeannie with stand alone episodes and look-alike long lost cousins.

[Kaboom 2.0]

At this point I'm just glad that Scott and Hell Wizard are still around and supporting the sestras, I heart those two. 

Thanks to ElectricBoogaloo, who has christened the monster in the woods Sloth, I will now hear the Goonies' pirate theme whenever we see him. Goonies never say die! :-D

I'm hoping Ferdinand appears before the end to wrap up not just his own story but also somehow affect Rachel's. Love the actor and the unpredictability of the character. 

[thuganomics85]

After last week's great episode, this I kind of fell back down for me.  Granted, a lot of it is just I can't barely remember what happened in the past, so there is some confusion going on.  I honestly couldn't place Coady, until they finally brought up Caster, and then I remembered that she was the ringleader for that.  Still not sure I'm all that interested over her involvement.  Basically, it sounds like Westmoreland, Susan Duncan, and Coady had all been working together, but Coady was willing to go places that Susan wouldn't, so that's how they all had their big falling out.  And now Westmoreland thinks Coady is dead and is willing to work with Susan again, but if Coady does get out (and she has the keycard), I imagine this will all fall apart.

Also, it sounds like this monster thing that attacked Sarah in the premiere was a failed experiment of Coady and Westmoreland?  And Mud is taking care of it, for some reason?  The whole thing confuses me and feels like it belongs on a different show.

I did enjoy Mrs. S. and Sarah working together and pulling off a con.  And the Sarah/Helena scene was great as well.  Always great watching Tatiana Maslany play off of Tatiana Maslany.

I feel like I'm suppose to feel for Kira on some levels, but I just find her obnoxious and wish Sarah had a kid who wouldn't treat her like shit every scene.

So, now Felix's annoying sister is back too and they're off to Switzerland of all places, in order to find out more about Neolution.

We are already close to the halfway point of the season, so I really hope they pick things up soon.  And we better get a return from Alison.  And Krystal.

[AftermathTV]

People need to train their memories.

There are a lot of already resolved things that people keep asking about.

Plus Coady was part of Paul's death for chrissakes. 

I'll finish my Season 4 rewatch this week, but I've got it all down pretty well.

[holly4755]

yes, I was thinking Coady entered the room when Paul blew it up, if it destroyed all the castors how did she survive?  

[AftermathTV]

1 hour ago, holly4755 said:

yes, I was thinking Coady entered the room when Paul blew it up, if it destroyed all the castors how did she survive?  

The explosion blew up Coady's valuable research, not Castor clones. We saw her and Rudy run out of the room before it detonated. Coady/Rudy were both alive and healthy in the very next episode, and Coady survived the Season 3 Finale just fine even though she was led into a trap.

It's possible more Castor clones are alive, but every non-Mark/Ira Castor given a name died on-screen. Paul snapped one's neck, Helena stabbed one in the brain to end his suffering, one died from a glitch while Cal watched and Rudy put him down, and Rudy had a combo glitch/Helena takedown. 

[maddie965]

If I have to watch a very old episode to remember who a supposedly important character is, the writers are seriously fucking it up. 

I hate what Orphan Black has become. I couldn't care less for all those old plots that never made sense anyway. I couldn't care less about the Others and their stupid monters. I hate that MK's death had no purpose at all. I hate that Art has become a puppet and we don't know how or why. I hate how fabulous Felix is just a distant thought now.  I miss the times when I could follow a whole episode without feeling pissed or sad or both.

I watch for Tatiana. That's all 

Edited July 5, 2017 by maddie965

[AftermathTV]

1 hour ago, maddie965 said:

If I have to watch a very old episode to remember who a supposedly important character is, the writers are seriously fucking it up. 

I hate what Orphan Black has become. I couldn't care less for all those old plots that never made sense anyway. I couldn't care less about the Others and their stupid monters. I hate that MK's death had no purpose at all. I hate that Art has become a puppet and we don't know how or why. I hate how fabulous Felix is just a distant thought now.  I miss the times when I could follow a whole episode without feeling pissed or sad or both.

I watch for Tatiana. That's all 

The blame lies completely on you, sorry

What you invest into something is how much you get back

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, maddie965 said:

If I have to watch a very old episode to remember who a supposedly important character is, the writers are seriously fucking it up. 

I hate what Orphan Black has become. I couldn't care less for all those old plots that never made sense anyway. I couldn't care less about the Others and their stupid monters. I hate that MK's death had no purpose at all. I hate that Art has become a puppet and we don't know how or why. I hate how fabulous Felix is just a distant thought now.  I miss the times when I could follow a whole episode without feeling pissed or sad or both.

I watch for Tatiana. That's all 

Pretty much the same here. I suppose the writers might be writing for future viewers whom they assume will be binge watching the entire series. But I don't like the story direction anymore; For me it's been a steady slide downhill since the advent of the Castors and the death of Paul. I just like Tatiana and most of the cast's acting. The dialogue is good—it's just the ponderous multiple plots collapsing under their own weight.

About Kyra's bratty rebelliousness: It seems like mother, like daughter to me.

[Haleth]

Except for Tatiana's brilliant acting, this just is not good anymore.  I almost gave up last season because of the convoluted conspiracies but hung in there.  Now we have one more layer of bad guys on top of that.  With Allison gone, Felix maybe sidelined, and Helena shut away (not that she's a favorite) all the fun is gone.  This whole island of Dr Westmoreland (complete with Caliban like monster) is ponderous.  And Kira is annoying.

[snarktini]

On 7/2/2017 at 1:38 AM, AftermathTV said:

-"It's not his fault". Code for "it's completely his fault". This creature is a tortured human experiment of our big bad.

 

Didn't she mean it's not the fault of our bear / monster / human experiment?  That's what I thought Mud meant. She tries to help and protect him because this was done to him and he can't help it.

[Chyromaniac]

While I'm not a huge fan of bringing back Coady (I feel like the show said everything it needed to about Castor back in Season 3), the trip to the care facility provided some great scenes for Tatiana and Maria, so overall I enjoyed the episode.

[mahree]

On 7/2/2017 at 4:24 AM, justmehere said:

P.S. -- And then the Proletheans: Henrik had a connection (it escapes me just now),

He was Ethan Duncan's lab assistant.

[SomeTameGazelle]

On 7/4/2017 at 4:14 PM, thuganomics85 said:

I feel like I'm suppose to feel for Kira on some levels, but I just find her obnoxious and wish Sarah had a kid who wouldn't treat her like shit every scene.

I thought Kira's obnoxiousness was refreshingly real, under the circumstances. She's not perfect, she's frustrated because her mother is trying to protect her from things she doesn't want to be protected from while she is still too young for Sarah to let her make her own decisions when the stakes seem so high. She reminded me of my 12-year-old niece.

[seacliffsal]

This once favorite show of mine has become so complicated and confusing that I am only watching out of loyalty and to finish the series.  The clones work best, in my view, when they work together.  This season though they are in separate storylines that, quite frankly, don't make sense to me.

In spite of this, I'm here until the end.

[Eureka]

I'm just catching up on this episode. I loved the genuine smile we saw from Helena. My first thought was that she looked like Alison there. Then it hit me that although they all look alike, we have never (or rarely anyway) seen a real, not demonic smile from Helena.

As for the plot, I am having trouble following what's going on with all these characters they've brought back in like Susan and Virginia. I hope it comes together in a more cohesive (to me, anyway) way because right now it just feels like they've brought them back just because it's the last season. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

A closer look: Helena and Sarah reunite

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Behind the scenes of S5.E4:

Q&A with Tatiana:

[AudienceofOne]

And straight back to the mess. What's happening? I'm not sure. But count me in as someone who wants more Felix. I imagine the actor might want to be freed up though. He's come a long way since Unnatural History