S05.E13: Storm-y Weather

[Cranberry]

Quote

Mya shouldn't mod half asleep. 

[Cranberry]

As chaos descends on Litchfield three days into the riot, the inmates wonder what the future holds and seek solace in loved ones.

[Blue Plastic]

Well, just another cliffhanger.  Oh well.  It felt like nothing much happened this season except a lot of torture and rape and then all the inmates got sent off somewhere else.

Please send the white supremacist and meth head characters off to a prison that is never shown on screen.  I guess they are supposed to be foils for the characters viewers are rooting for, but the foils are all just evil and/or stupid with no real motivation IMO for doing what they do.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Blue Plastic
Wrong thread

[Armchair Critic]

Buh bye Piscatella, can't say you'll be missed.

[snowwhyte]

Yeah, it was not a surprise that he died as the inmates were discussing Alex killing that guy and he heard everything. Am glad they didn't kill him. I would be worried about the swat team trying to shift the blame for his death onto them but I think forensics would clear them.

[Armchair Critic]

It's been so long since I watched the first few seasons that unfortunately I forgot some of the backstories. 

They said they were 10 prisoners short but it was actually 11 because they counted Linda. I wonder if the Asian woman will get away, I love how she notices everything that goes on but she just blends into the background. How long can Pennsatucky play house with her boyfriend the guard? If she is in the guard's house it's just a matter of time before more of them come back.

[lonestar]

Finished the season. Overall, I thought it was better than some past seasons. I just don't get why they make so many exceptions for Suzanne. After seeing what she did to Maureen's face, she should be in the psychiatric wing.

[wonderchica05]

Oops wrong thread!

Edited June 11, 2017 by wonderchica05

[WhosThatGirl]

Wow. What an end to the season. It was actually a pretty good season. Although last season got more of an impact from me, I enjoyed this season immensely as well.

I felt bad for the prisoners being separated at the end. 

Pistcella dying wasn't anything. Also were we supposed to take anything from his backstory in the previous episode? To me  it was anticlimactic. He fell for a prisoner and started a romance and then that man got Attacked and he Pistcella then hurt the other inmate and then the flashback ended? Or did I miss a scene? I don't know. It didn't garner sympathy from me and his reactions after. He's still awful and his reactions in this episode to tastyee were not anything. I'm glad the gang didn't kill him but all the same.. he won't be missed.

Aside from that.. yeah, what the hell is going to happen with Pennastukly and the guard? I don't get this storyline and it bothers the hell out of me what they're doing with this story. 

Edited June 11, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[Sentient Meat]

Because of the death mentioned in his file, I assume Piscatella scalded that man to death.

I knew this season couldn't have a happy ending because private prisons still are horrible... hopefully they will take it easy on them next season, but as long as things are the way they are, I'm guessing they will continue to fight the good fight.

The acting was amazing, but the storyline was all over the place.  For every time I was moved, there was another scene that took me completely out of the plot.

[kathe5133]

Glad Piscatella bought it in the end.  Waste of human flesh!  But, the women never stood a chance.  Even if Tastee had agreed to what Fig proposed, they would have reneged in the end, I'm sure of it.  It ended like I thought it would, glad there weren't  more deaths.  I can't believe any of them were dumb enough to think it could have ended any differently.  Well, that's  it till next June, I guess.

[Lady Calypso]

I'm definitely confused about Piscatella's backstory, since the man he fell for didn't even die. I assumed that prisoners would attack the poor guy who fell for him in the first place, but I assumed his death would have instigated Piscatella's already psychotic personality (as it doesn't just come from nowhere). But it's kind of a fitting end for him, either way. 

8 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Aside from that.. yeah, what the hell is going to happen with Pennastukly and the guard? I don't get this storyline and it bothers the hell out of me what they're doing with this story. 

Agreed. Pennsatucky became so empowered last season when she realized that Coates wasn't worth it and she got to say her peace. And then this season, they...double down on the romance? I'm not sure what they're trying to accomplish here. I hope we're supposed to find it creepy and we're not supposed to root for it at all. And I truly hope nobody is rooting for the romance either, because damn, I got creeped out by the domestic vibe in their last scene, although it also ended in a questionable form. Does Coates really want a future with her? Are things really going to work out, or will they both realize sooner rather than later that domestic bliss and a normal relationship isn't for them? Plus, Caputo will realize that Pennsatucky wasn't accounted for, right? They'll still have to take their names in their new prisons and then cross check them with the prisoners from Litchfield. Even with Linda counted as an inmate right now, I can't imagine she'd actually stay in prison, right? But her questioning that at the end makes it seem like they'll do exactly that. 

Maritza and Flaca are separated into different prisons, which will be different to see. I want to see these two independent of each other. I also wonder who will get put where, and if Litchfield truly is over as a prison. I guess, at this point, it has to be, but will they want to commit to several prisons and follow each group? 

I'm not sure what all the women thought would happen here, but surely they didn't think it would end happy, right? And will the women be sentenced to Max at some point, or will they just get longer sentences? I'm guessing it's the latter. 

Is it bad that when I saw the Nazis and the meth heads actually making separate plans to invoke violence (or, in the meth heads' case, causing a fire), I wanted the SWAT team (I think they're SWAT?) to shoot them all dead? Because that would be the majority of the characters I hate gone for next season. 

[Fairlily26]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm definitely confused about Piscatella's backstory, since the man he fell for didn't even die. I assumed that prisoners would attack the poor guy who fell for him in the first place, but I assumed his death would have instigated Piscatella's already psychotic personality (as it doesn't just come from nowhere). But it's kind of a fitting end for him, either way. 

Agreed. Pennsatucky became so empowered last season when she realized that Coates wasn't worth it and she got to say her peace. And then this season, they...double down on the romance? I'm not sure what they're trying to accomplish here. I hope we're supposed to find it creepy and we're not supposed to root for it at all. And I truly hope nobody is rooting for the romance either, because damn, I got creeped out by the domestic vibe in their last scene, although it also ended in a questionable form. Does Coates really want a future with her? Are things really going to work out, or will they both realize sooner rather than later that domestic bliss and a normal relationship isn't for them? Plus, Caputo will realize that Pennsatucky wasn't accounted for, right? They'll still have to take their names in their new prisons and then cross check them with the prisoners from Litchfield. Even with Linda counted as an inmate right now, I can't imagine she'd actually stay in prison, right? But her questioning that at the end makes it seem like they'll do exactly that. 

Maritza and Flaca are separated into different prisons, which will be different to see. I want to see these two independent of each other. I also wonder who will get put where, and if Litchfield truly is over as a prison. I guess, at this point, it has to be, but will they want to commit to several prisons and follow each group? 

I'm not sure what all the women thought would happen here, but surely they didn't think it would end happy, right? And will the women be sentenced to Max at some point, or will they just get longer sentences? I'm guessing it's the latter. 

Is it bad that when I saw the Nazis and the meth heads actually making separate plans to invoke violence (or, in the meth heads' case, causing a fire), I wanted the SWAT team (I think they're SWAT?) to shoot them all dead? Because that would be the majority of the characters I hate gone for next season. 

I agree with everything you've said, and I do think somehow Linda will get released because even though she's being counted now, most likely when they get to the new prison her info will get looked up and she'll be released. The annoying ass meth heads burning everyone's file was stupid because duh, computers, finger prints, and ssn#s.

I felt so bad for Gloria. I gotta say, I hate every single character that came from max last season, feels like they ruined show.

But I really really hope to never see the meth heads again. I skipped every scene they had. 

[pootlus]

It looked like they were literally - as well as figuratively - shipping some characters off to parts unknown.  The cast has got so big that I lose track - I wonder if next season will see a reduced core cast.  TBH I'd be happy if they kept to the ones in the basement plus Maria, Lorna and a couple of others.

[AgentRXS]

So they are totally going to just Luke and Laura Pennsatucky and the guard? In 20-fuckin-17? In a show created by a woman for a mostly female audience? Just fucking awesome. I guess the lesson is, as long as he is weally and twuly sowwy, we womens should just find the redeemed rapist story so romantic, and the bestest story ever! Especially when the man is in a position of power and has total control of the woman's fate.  Lovely, OINTB, just lovely. 

[Lady Calypso]

19 minutes ago, AgentRXS said:

So they are totally going to just Luke and Laura Pennsatucky and the guard? In 20-fuckin-17? In a show created by a woman for a mostly female audience? Just fucking awesome. I guess the lesson is, as long as he is weally and twuly sowwy, we womens should just find the redeemed rapist story so romantic, and the bestest story ever! Especially when the man is in a position of power and has total control of the woman's fate.  Lovely, OINTB, just lovely. 

I actually don't think this is the message they want to send us. I mean, I could be wrong and I will be waiting until next season to see if my thoughts are for real or just wistful thinking, but I do think we're supposed to feel exactly how we are. Boo's been incredibly displeased with Pennsatucky shacking up with Coates in any form, and the other inmates were just as unhappy when she chose Coates over the other girls. Looking at this episode, where Pennsatucky is waiting for Coates like a good little housewife, and the uncomfortable feeling when they settled in on the couch, I don't think it'll be happy and blissful at all. I think this is a warning for Pennsatucky.

Not that I agree that they should have done this storyline at all. I'd rather she stuck to her guns last season and Coates could have just been another hostage.

[snowwhyte]

I don't think we're meant to see the Pensatucky and Coates relationship as romantic either. I think we're meant to agree with Boo in seeing it as an indication of how messed up Pensatucky is. It's obviously going to end badly. I just hope it ends up with Pensatucky learning from it and Coates in prison. 

[Sparger Springs]

Why didn't Caputo remember his girlfriend was with the prisoners. He should've went and gotten her. 

[Sentient Meat]

I think everyone universally accepts that what Coates did to Pennsatucky was despicable... but that doesn't mean this type of relationship doesn't happen on occasion.  Why not try to explore the ramifications of such a situation instead of taking the obvious path of Coates getting fired and Tiffany never speaking to him again?  If Crazy Eyes were a man, would anyone tolerate what she did to Kukudio and continue to ship them? or what Alex did to Piper?  The whole show is about people doing terrible things to the people they care about and the enemy seems to be the power structure in general rather than just men.

[Negritude]

54 minutes ago, Sparger Springs said:

Why didn't Caputo remember his girlfriend was with the prisoners. He should've went and gotten her. 

I didn't re-watch last season so I don't remember but I thought they had either called it quits or cooled off. He was about to hook up with Fitz (?) and never mentioned her one time in the negotiations. Even though that would be weird even if they were broken up.

[rho]

1 hour ago, Sparger Springs said:

Why didn't Caputo remember his girlfriend was with the prisoners. He should've went and gotten her. 

She's definitely not his girlfriend anymore. He had the chance to rescue her when she came running in and interrupted negotiations but instead he basically gaslighted her. After the riot and SWAT shit show he's got a million other things to think about. At this point, he'll either be publicly let go or he's stuck dealing with the aftermath. Either way he's MCC's scapegoat so he's probably not feeling too hot on Linda right now. Meh, she can ride it out on the bus. Someone will figure it out before she's locked up again...or not

[AgentRXS]

Quote

Why not try to explore the ramifications of such a situation instead of taking the obvious path of Coates getting fired and Tiffany never speaking to him again?  If Crazy Eyes were a man, would anyone tolerate what she did to Kukudio and continue to ship them? or what Alex did to Piper?  The whole show is about people doing terrible things to the people they care about and the enemy seems to be the power structure in general rather than just men.

I don't ship Crazy Eyes and anybody. In fact, as much as I think the actress is talented, I've had enough of Crazy Eyes period. I really hope she ends up in a Psych Ward where ever next season.  The act has gotten old and its not enjoyable to watch. At some point, I hope they write it so that Taystee realizes that Suzanne is just as (if not more) responsible for Poussey's death as Bayley was.

Not really a fan of Piper or Alex ( separately or together) but those two can give as good as they get from each other. Their brand of crazy is equally matched.

Coates holds all the power over Pennsatusky. I'm glad others here have faith that the writers aren't going to go the happy couple route with them but I'm not so sure.  These are the same writers who thought it brilliant to waste 13 episodes with the Meth Head Twins featuring in the majority of all of them. I get that actor availability comes into play, but damn.

[ThatsDarling]

Man, I feel like I watched one 13-hour episode. Having the entire season take place over the course of three days kept things progressing at such a slow rate, and I could have done without so many guard humiliation scenes.  It all felt very repetitive after a while.

I'm kind of irked that we waited a year for one bloated storyline that ended in a cliffhanger, but at least there's the potential for the show to have a major shakeup in season 6. Some of the core characters and their dynamics with other characters (especially the Piper-Alex romance) feel very stale to me, so I think it could be interesting to send them to different prisons and see how they navigate their new environments and peer groups. Or just ship them off to a prison that isn't depicted on the show.

[Sentient Meat]

1 hour ago, AgentRXS said:

I don't ship Crazy Eyes and anybody. In fact, as much as I think the actress is talented, I've had enough of Crazy Eyes period. I really hope she ends up in a Psych Ward where ever next season.  The act has gotten old and its not enjoyable to watch. At some point, I hope they write it so that Taystee realizes that Suzanne is just as (if not more) responsible for Poussey's death as Bayley was.

Not really a fan of Piper or Alex ( separately or together) but those two can give as good as they get from each other. Their brand of crazy is equally matched.

Coates holds all the power over Pennsatusky. I'm glad others here have faith that the writers aren't going to go the happy couple route with them but I'm not so sure.  These are the same writers who thought it brilliant to waste 13 episodes with the Meth Head Twins featuring in the majority of all of them. I get that actor availability comes into play, but damn.

I don't really hold Suzanne ultimately responsible for Poussey's death as she is mentally ill, and think the point of this season was also to point out that Bayley wasn't so much at fault as much as a corrupt for profit prison system that would hire people such terrible or underqualified people as Piscatella and Bayley and keep Suzanne from proper medical care.  The takeaway isn't so much that this man is bad or this woman is evil... but that these poor souls are being victimized by the entire institution that goes all the way up the food chain to the POTUS.  If one is angry at certain characters more than the system, I think one is missing the point.  This isn't to say that they shouldn't piss you off... but more like have the feeling that there but for the grace of God goes myself.  When you start thinking you're better than these people, you fall into the trap of becoming Linda Ferguson.  I am not trying to say that the average person isn't better than these people... but if we are it is because we were fortunate to be born into a more supportive, loving environment that saved us from becoming like some of these characters.  When you start looking at groups of people as naturally bad or "evil doers"... you become no better than the guards who were committing the abuses.  In a way the season was kind of like Eddie Murphy's Trading Places... showing us that if you put the inmates in a position of power, they (we) are all capable of committing the same atrocities and it is very difficult not to let the position of power corrupt you.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Sentient Meat
grammar

[AgentRXS]

Quote

ill, and think the point of this season was also to point out that Bayley wasn't so much at fault as much as a corrupt for profit prison system that would hire people such terrible or underqualified people as Piscatella and Bayley and keep Suzanne from proper medical care.  

Except Lolly was put in Psych because she was considered a danger to herself and others. It was well-known pre-Lolly that Suzanne was prone to violent outburts and is considered a danger to herself and others. She isn't being written to being treated simply because the writers are found of Uzo's acting ability and she has more time on her hands than Lori Petty.

My problem is with the writing. I think they are incapable of properly writing around the actor's availability (I HATE how Sophia has been so isolated and sidelined). Despite being given backstory, I don't think the Meth Heads were written with any layers-they were just written to be annoying for annoying sake---much like Piper was last season. The only characters they handled properly were Maria, Tastyee,Boo, Lorna,  Gloria, and Aleida. Everyone else was marginalized or given way too much meaningless screentime (the new Hispanic girls, the white supremacists).

Quote

 I am not trying to say that the average person isn't better than these people... but if we are it is because we were fortunate to be born into a more supportive, loving environment that saved us from becoming like some of these characters. When you start looking at groups of people as naturally bad or "evil doers"... you become no better than the guards who were committing the abuses

This isn't true, and even the show has explained this. Poussey's father adored her and she still ended up in prison. Suzanne was raised in a loving environment even if her mother didn't quite know how to handle her illness (which isn't exactly her mother's fault---mental health education even today is lacking). This show does a good job of showing that anyone can end up in prison regardless of background.  Some people are career criminals, some are victims of circumstance, and some just had one bad day where they lost control.

And sorry, I don't tolerate racism....so I will look at any form of violent supremacy as evil. The barista girl who is in for poisoning the coffees of POC/Jewish customers is just as irredeemable to me as Piscatella.

[Willowy]

I'm angry with Suzanne because her fucking foghorn mouth and rabid, insane assault made it impossible for Bayley to realize the damage he was doing to dear Poussey. At that moment- when she died? Had I been there I would have flung Suzanne out a window. I don't blame Bayley at all. I realize she's nuts, I do. I used to care. I don't now.

[leighroda]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I would rather see Angie and Leanne gone, than Flaca and Maritza... I think both were kinda pointless filler this season... but in general I just don't like Leanne and Angie, and I don't really understand how for all the dumb stuff they do, they manage to fly under the radar. I'm not saying Maritza and Flaca are much deeper characters, I feel they kinda play the same role amount the Hispanic group, but to me they are just more likable, and if I had to choose I would prefer them, Leanne and Angie got quite a bit of screen time considering they are generally more in the background, but I don't know that they added much. It also didn't make much sense how they were separating Flaca and Maritza, while it appeared every other line filed on the same busses, they were singled out, out of nowhere. Who knows maybe the busses are going to the same place making it a moot point, but it seemed weird to me. 

[Sentient Meat]

4 minutes ago, AgentRXS said:

Except Lolly was put in Psych because she was considered a danger to herself and others. It was well-known pre-Lolly that Suzanne was prone to violent outburts and is considered a danger to herself and others. She isn't being written to being treated simply because the writers are found of Uzo's acting ability and she has more time on her hands than Lori Petty.

My problem is with the writing. I think they are incapable of properly writing around the actor's availability (I HATE how Sophia has been so isolated and sidelined). Despite being given backstory, I don't think the Meth Heads were written with any layers-they were just written to be annoying for annoying sake---much like Piper was last season. The only characters they handled properly were Maria, Tastyee,Boo, Lorna,  Gloria, and Aleida. Everyone else was marginalized or given way too much meaningless screentime (the new Hispanic girls, the white supremacists).

This isn't true, and even the show has explained this. Poussey's father adored her and she still ended up in prison. Suzanne was raised in a loving environment even if her mother didn't quite know how to handle her illness (which isn't exactly her mother's fault---mental health education even today is lacking). This show does a good job of showing that anyone can end up in prison regardless of background.  Some people are career criminals, some are victims of circumstance, and some just had one bad day where they lost control.

And sorry, I don't tolerate racism....so I will look at any form of violent supremacy as evil. The barista girl who is in for poisoning the coffees of POC/Jewish customers is just as irredeemable to me as Piscatella.

Agree with you about the writing... it's not so much that it was bad, as it was disorganized... the show has always had an anthology feel about it but this time even the present events seemed disjointed.  Might not be bad if they did the show like Fargo, it would be interesting to see a whole season of Freida's character after Girl Scouts... or Red's younger days between Russia and her children... but as you said they have the cast to consider.

Poussey's family was loving but I think they had a hard time with her coming out... Suzanne's problems stem from her mental illness plus her dealing with adoption... I didn't mean to say a loving environment guarantees a good person or a latchkey or difficult childhood means delinquency... I simply meant those who have support usually do better and one should have compassion for those who don't have any.

Also agree that the barista girl was terrible, but who knows her backstory?  Maybe she grew up getting beaten by people of color everyday... maybe her parents indoctrinated her with that crap and punished her if she didn't obey them.  As a person of color myself, I'd try to rehabilitate her rather than then write her off but it would be truly frightening to see her out in the world able to pour more antifreeze at a moments whim.  Piscatella was the worst because he was educated and he still acted that way... but it would have been interesting to see more of his story.  It's a tough call, but it's funny how we demonize the poor instead of looking at the damage done by our so-called civil institutions.  9/11 killed 3,000 people... Black on black murders kill 6,000 to 10,000 a year... but removing health insurance may kill up to 45,000 a year.  Yet we fear terrorists and gangsters way more than our own government.

[AgentRXS]

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lso agree that the barista girl was terrible, but who knows her backstory?  Maybe she grew up getting beaten by people of color everyday... maybe her parents indoctrinated her with that crap and punished her if she didn't obey them.  As a person of color myself, I'd try to rehabilitate her rather than then write her off but it would be truly frightening to see her out in the world able to pour more antifreeze at a moments whim.  Piscatella was the worst because he was educated and he still acted that way... but it would have been interesting to see more of his story.  It's a tough call, but it's funny how we demonize the poor instead of looking at the damage done by our so-called civil institutions.  9/11 killed 3,000 people... Black on black murders kill 6,000 to 10,000 a year... but removing health insurance may kill up to 45,000 a year.  Yet we fear terrorists and gangsters way more than our own government.

I grew up in an environment similar to what you have been describing. My household wasn't loving and supportive. My mother dated a racist redneck at one point. I was poor and white, and was bullied at my mostly POC schools from elementary school on up. You can only use your upbringing as a crutch for so long before you have to learn to take personal responsibility for your actions and make nonviolent choices.  If these characters were real, I wouldn't demonize most of them. But the skinheads need more than rehab....they need to be kept away from the public for our safety. . The girls in there for  minor drug offenses need drug rehabilitation, job placement, and education training and not jail time.  A girl like Tastyee is whom I would  feel sorry for--she would be brilliant in whatever career path she choose if given the right resources. Lorna, Suzanne and Lolly need real long-term psychiatric help and not prison. And believe me, I have a whole lot to say about the prison-industrial system and the government but that is for a different thread. :)

Edited June 12, 2017 by AgentRXS

[Sentient Meat]

23 minutes ago, AgentRXS said:

I grew up in an environment similar to what you have been describing. My household wasn't loving and supportive. My mother dated a racist redneck at one point. I was poor and white, and was bullied at my mostly POC schools from elementary school on up. You can only use your upbringing as a crutch for so long before you have to learn to take personal responsibility for your actions and make nonviolent choices.  If these characters were real, I wouldn't demonize most of them. But the skinheads need more than rehab....they need to be kept away from the public for our safety. Lorna and Suzanne need real psychiatric help. The girls in there for  minor drug offenses need drug rehabilitation, job placement, and education training and not jail time.  A girl like Tastyee is whom I would  feel sorry for--she would be brilliant in whatever career path she choose if given the right resources.  Suzanne and Lolly need real long-term psychiatric help and not prison. And believe me, I have a whole lot to say about the prison-industrial system and the government but that is for a different thread. :)

It's good that you were able to overcome the bullying that could have lead you down a hateful path... but although I don't condone racism I try to understand it.  The barista was able to work along side the Latinas and they only lashed out at each other because they ran out of coffee and all the old wounds reopened as soon as one of them made a rude comment.  The fact that they were able to be friendly at first, lead me to believe there might be some hope of growth from that character but I would understand extreme caution because of her sociopathic nature and lack of moral boundaries.  Agree about Suzanne, Lolly and even Lorna, it really bothered me when Nicky left her alone with the drugs because Nicky is a competent intelligent woman when she's sober and should've known that Lorna could really hurt someone.

[DrSpaceman73]

I thought this was probably the best season start to finish

To play it all out of 3 days in real time, 13 episodes, I thought was a good decision.  it played out in pseudo- real time, though not quite. 

Red looked so different when younger, not what I expected from her.  Though I liked how her boyfriend proved to be more brave than the cute guy just in it for the money. 

Taystee's mom......DAMN WOMAN!!!  That's one of the worst things I have seen so far on this show that did not involve someone dying.  Ok you give her up for adoption.  Don't blame her for that.  Bad circumstances, was probably the right move.  But then you track her down 18 years later, tell her you want to meet her..........and then AGAIN REFUSE TO LET HER KNOW HER FAMILY and truly be in your life?!!!  How cruel and horrible.  You should have just left it alone, not even reached out to her if that's what you wanted. 

I like the fact they make you feel compassion for the characters in jail, but at the same time, they make it pretty clear, these people are pretty effed up inside and certainly cannot be trusted to make sane, rational decisions on their own. 

Piper and Alex I just don't find believable as a couple.  I mentioned before in another thread, I see this as Piper just reliving her youth while in prison.  The moment she is out and Alex is still in prison, I don't see that relationship lasting.  What makes me confused about the intent here.  I don't know if its just bad writing and acting that make the SEEM like a bad couple or if we as viewers truly are supposed to recognize they don't belong together long term, even though they can't see it or refuse to acknowledge it,  for that reason and they are TRYING to portray them as a bad couple.  I think to accept the latter though gives far too much credit to the two mediocre actresses, so I doubt that is the case. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by DrSpaceman73

[uoflfan]

21 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Aside from that.. yeah, what the hell is going to happen with Pennastukly and the guard? I don't get this storyline and it bothers the hell out of me what they're doing with this story. 

This bugs the hell out of me, too.  The last thing I would do with my rapist was start a relationship.  I love Pennsatucky but she has zero self esteem.  FFS, Donuts raped her.  My rapist said he loved me, too, but there was no way I'd ever let that bastard near me again.

[DrSpaceman73]

21 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Wow. What an end to the season. It was actually a pretty good season. Although last season got more of an impact from me, I enjoyed this season immensely as well.

I felt bad for the prisoners being separated at the end. 

Pistcella dying wasn't anything. Also were we supposed to take anything from his backstory in the previous episode? To me  it was anticlimactic. He fell for a prisoner and started a romance and then that man got Attacked and he Pistcella then hurt the other inmate and then the flashback ended? Or did I miss a scene? I don't know. It didn't garner sympathy from me and his reactions after. He's still awful and his reactions in this episode to tastyee were not anything. I'm glad the gang didn't kill him but all the same.. he won't be missed.

Aside from that.. yeah, what the hell is going to happen with Pennastukly and the guard? I don't get this storyline and it bothers the hell out of me what they're doing with this story. 

 The inmate he placed in the shower that hurt his prison lover died in that shower.  They don't show it in the flashback, but they mention it in an earlier episode when they find his employment file and learn he was involved in an inmate dying of burns, but he was never charged with anything over it.  The guy he placed in the shower, he basically killed him. 

I have no sympathy at all over Piscatella, even after knowing that happened earlier to him and at the end of this season.  He is not supposed to be involved with an inmate.  This is one reason, among many reasons, why such rules exist. 

[rho]

46 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I have no sympathy at all over Piscatella, even after knowing that happened earlier to him and at the end of this season.  He is not supposed to be involved with an inmate.  This is one reason, among many reasons, why such rules exist. 

A miniscule part of me feels bad for the kid who got sent to conversion camp, he obviously came away with lots of mommy issues but that doesn't justify his treatment of Red and her "family." Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think the flashback was meant to humanize Piscatella. All it did was solidify the fact that he's a vengeful sadist on a power trip.

This show has always maintained a running social commentary. If anything, I think the flashback was meant to give a glimpse at men's prisons and the equally disturbing misuse of power.

[WhosThatGirl]

56 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

 The inmate he placed in the shower that hurt his prison lover died in that shower.  They don't show it in the flashback, but they mention it in an earlier episode when they find his employment file and learn he was involved in an inmate dying of burns, but he was never charged with anything over it.  The guy he placed in the shower, he basically killed him. 

I have no sympathy at all over Piscatella, even after knowing that happened earlier to him and at the end of this season.  He is not supposed to be involved with an inmate.  This is one reason, among many reasons, why such rules exist. 

Yeah I remembered that he killed an inmate and I realized the guy who hurt his prison lover was the one who killed but what I meant was.. were we supposed to take something from that? I mean he didn't get any sympathy from me from that flashback. What happened to his prisoner boyfriend? Did he just break it off with him? Maybe if I had more backstory on that I would care. But he's gone now and he was a worthless character. Can they do the same with Coates? 

Because I can't with this. I just don't get it? And I think they want us to feel exactly like we're feeling about it but I feel really uncomfortable with it. 

And this season wasn't perfect by any means. Yes the riot went on too long, because what did the women think they were going to accomplish? I feel like the season promos were a little misleading. I thought all the groups were going to come together and I guess they sort of did but it wasn't what I thought it was going to be. I didn't think it would be just crazy fights and the humiliation of the guards constantly. I get that the guards suck, a lot of them did. But most of them really were just doing the job. And also yes I know they all didn't say anything to help with negative situations and the death of Poussey but I mean... really. The inmates who were participating in it get no points either.

Yes the season felt uneven but there were good moments. Also.. good episodes. I liked this one and the two before it.

Next season should be interesting. I wonder which characters we will see and how it's going to plan out. I also wonder if the separation of the groups is intentional, to stop the race mobs and what have you. I know I could do without the Nazi group or the Meth heads. 

[Willowy]

What I liked was, by and large, the season showed that when women are given free reign to create a societal structure, it's mostly positive. 

The underground lair

Poussey's tribute library

The coffee bar (where even though it was brief, the nazis and hispanics were showing each other respect and working together)

Their version of torture is an 'America's Got Talent' show? Hilarious, but hardly sadistic. 

Taystee's negotiations - most all were reasonable, well argued, and well-thought out

Before it all went to shit, and with a few exceptions, I LIKED seeing what Litchfield women did when given the chance. 

Even when they tortured the guards, again, noting a few exceptions, really all they did was humiliate them and make them exceedingly uncomfortable. Considering what the guards had been putting them through for YEARS... I thought their revenges were pretty tame.

[DrSpaceman73]

I think it would be unrealistic for them to all come together as one big group singing Kumbaya to win better days for the prison.  However I was still disappointed in the ending and Tasytee turning down the offer. 

I didn't mind the way this season was chaotic and kind of all over the place.  that is realistic.  Some started off with good intentions and then couldn't follow it through.  Some factions came together and split apart.  The lack of any structure was fun for them at first but then over time they downgraded to huge problems and unmitigated, unchecked factions all with different goals and views. 

Its a riot.  Its hard to get everyone to stay together for very long, even in small groups, let alone large ones.  The stories were all over the place much of the time, but that is how it would be. 

I would have preferred though that Tasytee be talked into the negotiations offered.  It felt like they went a different direction because they thought it would be a better story this way, with a big cliffhanger ending again and now everyone being bussed off to who knows where.  it gives more possibilities for future storylines, I guess, but it still seemed unsatisfying after everything they did. 

[WhosThatGirl]

I'm just curious about what next season is going to look like. Like are we actually going to lose some of the cast, because that's what it looked like. I mean if so, we're more than likely going to keep all the people in the basement  on the show.  But that group was missing Boo and Lorna and Pennstucky. And Boo and Lorna are big characters on the show.

Also what about Sophia who just walked out of the prison and was sent on Max? Are we  done with her and what about Daya? I'm curious to what next season is going to look like it. 

[Reishe]

8 hours ago, rho said:

I don't think the flashback was meant to humanize Piscatella.

I agree. I don't think the flashbacks are ever meant to make us feel more sympathetic--they're just meant to show us that what people see in Litchfield is who these people are inside those walls. Incarceration is one of those unique experiences where you are expected to box up who you were before hand, put on a uniform and completely change your behavior out of self-preservation, so I think it's particularly apt in an unfolding story to show who these people were before undergoing that transformation. Piscatella's flashback showed us that he cared too much for an inmate and yet failed to protect him; what he resented about Red was the devotion of her prison family and her vigilance to protect them (he was vocal about it while monologuing at her). It's a bit of a stretch, really, but whatever. Maybe as a closeted (in the beginning) gay man he had felt he had to hide his nurturing impulses and resents women for not having to hide it?

8 hours ago, Willowy said:

Considering what the guards had been putting them through for YEARS... I thought their revenges were pretty tame.

I felt it was pretty darned Animal Farm/Lord of the Flies, myself. Dehumanization and humiliation. "Cavity searches" in front of a crowd, denial of insulin (I felt that was a misstep by the writers, as we never saw any health implications from denying that guard his insulin), verbal abuse, being locked in close quarters with multiple people and no reasonable place to sleep and a communal bucket. And, as has been mentioned upthread, the guards they rounded up weren't necessarily the ones that had brutalized the inmates over the years. If the inmates' objection was that the COs hadn't been trained properly, then it certainly isn't fair to punish them for the lack of training provided by their employers. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by Reishe

[Captanne]

I also got the "Lord of the Flies" vibe -- which is why I'm glad the heroes ended up out of the melee and in the basement/pool.

 

Too little, too late, when the brunette Meth-Head started recounting their crimes with a bit of remorse.  (At least, doubt.)

[Absurda]

I thought there were some good points to this season. I don’t think Piscatella’s flashback was done to humanize him as to provide some contrast with Bailey. They both killed inmates. Bailey did it by accident out of a lack of training and preparedness where as Piscatella did it on purpose out of revenge and in a horribly painful way. Bailey is so wracked with guilt he can’t function and truly believes he’s a monster who belongs in prison (why isn’t his family getting him help???). Piscatella feels no remorse, and actually still believes he is better than the inmates in prison. The only difference between them and him is they were tried and convicted.

I really hope the group in the pool doesn’t get hurt when the SWAT team gets there. Was I the only one thinking Frieda should probably put down Piscatella’s utility belt?

I appreciated the group that just kind of checked out and decided to spend their days soaking up the sun and relaxing. Felt realistic that there would be some who just want to be lazy for a few days and not be involved in the revenge madness.

Random Thoughts:

Will an epi pen really undo lithium overdose?

Agree with the poster up thread who noted the count should have been 11 missing. There were the 10 in the pool and the 2 that escaped (twelve missing) then Linda made up 1. I don’t know why, but that really bugged me.

I’m sad to see Flaritza’s vlog ending. I actually found them much more entertaining than the meth heads.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Absurda

[snowwhyte]

I've never liked Flaca or Maritza since they are so shallow and thoughtless but they could conceivably grow out of that.  You would think watching a fellow inmate die on the cafeteria floor might have helped them mature a bit but clearly not. They do have a liveliness to them though and they can be fun.

The meth heads are just morons who don't care about anything but getting high. I did not enjoy watching them huff bleach or lose a gun or any of the other stupid stuff they did during the riot.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

3 hours ago, Absurda said:

Agree with the poster up thread who noted the count should have been 11 missing. There were the 10 in the pool and the 2 that escaped (twelve missing) then Linda made up 1. I don’t know why, but that really bugged me.

I totally forgot that Chang escaped too! Thanks for reminding me.

After Piper and Alex got engaged, I was fully expecting one of them to die when the guards finally charged in. Love is pain. I guess they can cause more pain to each other alive.

I didn't mind Piscatella dying but I wouldn't have minded seeing him in prison; maybe at the one he used to work at. I'm glad none of the women killed him though.

I liked the riot but I don't think it was enough to fill a whole season. Did we really need 8 million scenes of Suzanne freaking out, the Meth Clowns, and the guards being tortured in the chapel, the "bubble," the "poo" AND Litchfield Idol? I think they could have wrapped it up in about 4 episodes and moved along some of the stories they started, like Pennsatucky and Donuts. It would have been nice to have that play out rather than be left with them cuddling on the couch. Leaving it there made it seem like a happily ever after romance. I have a feeling they will try for domestic bliss but the whole thing will end badly.

Plus the riot ended up having no point, which may have been some existential point in itself. Taystee spent the whole time trying to get justice for Poussay by negotiating with MMC, and the one thing they didn't have control over was who gets prosecuted. So Taystee ends up losing all her progress with MMC holding out for something she couldn't even get from MMC. AND it sounds like an investigation could have occurred anyway and justice be served without any protest. The riot, like the season was self-indulgent. Most of the rioters were out for themselves; Maria to shorten her sentence, Gloria for furlough, and everyone else to either enjoy themselves or torture the guards.

[Armchair Critic]

Anybody else remember when Taystee turned on Poussey when Taystee was selling drugs? She was pretty mean to her and that seemed to get glossed over. That's why it irritated me a bit when Taystee at first was so hard on Brooke acting like she had more right to grieve than Brooke did.

[DrSpaceman73]

While at this point the riot seems to be a failure in achieving their goals, I am not sure we know that for sure. 

If nothing else this has become a huge PR nightmare for the state and the company that was in charge.  It has been shown on video now a guard terrorizing inmates for no reason, even though he is now dead.  Two guards and one inmate died in this riot.  There could be criminal charges I would think for negligence even against the private company for what happened. 

They did not achieve what they wanted in a direct negotiating process, but there is little chance of this just being glossed over and Litchfield just returning to the status quo after all this is over. 

Litchfield may very well just get shut down over this, never existing again.  And the company may be forced out of the private prison business over this. 

It was not what they wanted.  But I would take a wait and see approach before saying it was all pointless. 

[colorbars]

Flaca and Maritza can be mean, but they're the perfect for comic relief and used well. They have a scene or two an episode, stick to themselves, and mostly just come off ignorant or cold. Not to mention, they've both had some more serious moments as well. Whereas the methheads and skinheads eat up screentime and are actively awful, and are completely one-dimensional. They're also just not funny at all. I'd love if both those groups left and never came back.

I also hate the Pennsatucky/Donuts storyline, and am really not sure what they're trying to do there. Last season I thought it was more clear that the viewers weren't supposed to be rooting for it, because Boo was always there to be the voice of the audience, but she wasn't really there to do that this season so it was just.... cute rapist love story, and I wasn't into it.

I enjoyed everything else this season, though. I liked that it was just over 3 days and thought the pacing was fine. It was a nice change from the normal formula of the show, and I loved seeing different characters interacting. And I think it sets up for a very interesting sixth season, that can really go anywhere at this point.

7 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

Anybody else remember when Taystee turned on Poussey when Taystee was selling drugs? She was pretty mean to her and that seemed to get glossed over. That's why it irritated me a bit when Taystee at first was so hard on Brooke acting like she had more right to grieve than Brooke did.

They made up at the end of that season and Taysteee redeemed herself by helping to bring Vee down, and then spent the entire next season taking care of her group and growing to be the mother. Yeah, she was shitty there to her for a bit, but it didn't ruin or define their relationship.

[lonestar]

Quote

Litchfield may very well just get shut down over this, never existing again.  And the company may be forced out of the private prison business over this. 

We had a prison in South Texas that went private. After a riot, it was shut down. Now, after a couple of years, it is back up and running but no longer private. (sound familiar?)

[mattie0808]

I really, truly enjoyed this season, with some caveats.

-- I am a bit annoyed they ended on another cliffhanger, and we're supposed to believe that Piper, Alex, Taystee, Suzanne, Red, and others are about to bite it. They won't (the reaction to the guy killing Piscatella makes me pretty confident on that front, aside from them seeing Freida has a gun, maybe).

-- I'm with those TIRED of Suzanne. I don't blame her for P's death, but I really, REALLY wish the black family would stop being so flat-out desperate to take care of her at all costs at all times. I don't think it's realistic. They'd be EXHAUSTED of it by now. She and Lorna literally have major parts of the both the prison and the outside world jumping through these INSANE hoops to try to help them not fall to pieces. Why? I know they are loved by their respective prison families, but come the F on. At some point, you can't just keep at it, especially when there are literally life and death issues staring you in the face.

-- I don't give a single goddamn about Bailey. I was so relieved they didn't have P's father offer him some sort of absolution. I know he didn't mean to kill her, but stop. Seriously. I don't think for a second if Lorna lost her damn mind in the cafeteria and Nicky tried to intervene, Nicky would wind up dead. These accidents always and only seem to happen to certain people. Bailey can take his guilt literally anywhere else in the world rather than weeping in front of her FATHER for some freaking forgiveness/closure. I'm shocked (not) he didn't actually go to Litchfield in the end. I'm sure he'll eventually go to a hospital or otherwise get some long-term counseling, and find peace and a good life in the future (with the support of his family, and the entire legal system). I'm so sorry for him that this is what he's looking forward to. I mean, he's definitely going to have a rough couple of years to get there. And P will be decomposing in her grave. Yeah.

-- Amazing that the SWAT team (or whatever) got EVERYONE OUT WITHOUT KILLING ANYONE but Piscatella. It's weird, it's like, even in a crazy, violent, dangerous situation, the folks with the guns don't, you know, have to...accidentally...kill anyone. They even got Team Latte out alive when they were really trying to take dudes out. It was refreshing, lol.

-- I still don't like Piper and wish Alex could move on from her, but they are clearly the end-game for the show. Whatever.

-- I liked seeing Fig again in this context. I liked seeing the various family members outside the prison (and against all my better judgement, was happy for Leanne for the moment with her mother). I liked seeing Piper's mom. 

-- I'm, like, violently relieved that Gloria's son is okay. I don't mind Maria getting hers and I'm glad her guy came with the kid (though, should you bring a baby to a violent hostage situation, lol?).

Edited June 13, 2017 by mattie0808

[DoubleUTeeEff]

17 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

It was not what they wanted.  But I would take a wait and see approach before saying it was all pointless. 

You make a good point. I still think the riot was pointless in terms of getting justice for Poussey and humane living conditions but if Litchfield gets shut down or MMC loses their contract, it will end up a failed experiment for the private sector taking over a prison.

[chitowngirl]

Bailey, Poussey's dad is not going to give you any sort of forgiveness 4 days after his daughter's death. There probably hasn't even been a funeral yet.

I cannot imagine even beginning to sort out the prisoners and getting inside the prison and beginning to clean up that mess. It's making my OCD twitchy just thinking about it. If Caputo doesn't tell them about Linda, I wonder how long she'll be stuck in a prison, especially since the records are burnt. The count is going to be one short if they don't find Tiffany and the older lady who walked through the fence. If they find one of them, it'll be a while before they even realize the other is missing until Linda is discovered to not belong there.