S06.E24: Love In La La Land

[jacksgirl]

3 hours ago, lezlers said:

It wasn't the TV, it was a soother.  My kids had similar ones.  It has lights and plays music.    My first thought about the green container was that it was from the vet as well.

Can't bold in quote box today, but Lezlers, but the only problem with that line of thought is do any of us believe Matt or Amber take their pets to a vet ever?

[GreatKazu]

16 minutes ago, jacksgirl said:

Can't bold in quote box today, but Lezlers, but the only problem with that line of thought is do any of us believe Matt or Amber take their pets to a vet ever?

Thank you. 

They would never dare put any of those pets in those fancy shmancy cars of theirs that they work so hard to lease out. 

[leighroda]

My vet gives xanax #justsaying #desperate

[lezlers]

1 hour ago, jacksgirl said:

Can't bold in quote box today, but Lezlers, but the only problem with that line of thought is do any of us believe Matt or Amber take their pets to a vet ever?

Valid point.   I'm afraid to say anything else because the last time I respectfully disagreed with someone on here I had a mod threaten to kick me off the boards and given no chance to defend myself so I'm basically just reading now. 

[RealityMyArse]

  On 6/9/2017 at 3:51 AM, mittsigirl said:

Well do I ever feel dumb about the wrong poop! I did tape the show, but I just can't bring myself to watch the damn thing, same as all of the others this season, I tape then erase after I find out everything here from you guys, as well as on twitter. I know I have told you that I lost a daughter to cancer. I have a really hard time watching these non-mothers, the way they ignore and neglect their daughters. You just can't take a child's life for-granted, long lives are not guaranteed, just because they are children. I would give ANYTHING to have my child back, and these losers say they are 'mothers'? Amber especially. Makes me so mad and sad at the same time. Sorry for the rant.

I'm sorry for your loss. ??

It's reasons like this that make me want to cherish everyone single moment with my kids because most people do take advantage of the fact that kids are young.

You hear people all the time say "I'm going to spend more time with my grandmother as she's getting old and could pass anytime." Well, the same goes for anyone, sadly.

Again, I'm sorry for your loss. ??

So sorry for your loss, Calm81. It was 13 years ago on 6/09/04 that I lost my 5 year old daughter, Jasmine. I adopted her at age 2 from China: she was missing the left side of her brain. She was an amazing little girl, and I miss her every single day, and look forward to seeing her in heaven. Thinking of you and your child. ?

[RealityMyArse]

@mittsigirl I understand what you mean. My son died in his sleep. We still do not have a cause of death after 6 years and probably never will since the autopsy was inconclusive. To see some of these "parents" acting the way they do is a slap in the face.

So sorry to read these stories: I've been there. My daughter was 5 when she died in her sleep. We go on, but it never gets "easy". (((Hugs))))

[mamadrama]

1 minute ago, RealityMyArse said:

So sorry to read these stories: I've been there. My daughter was 5 when she died in her sleep. We go on, but it never gets "easy". (((Hugs))))

I am sorry to hear about your daughter. There is an exchange in the movie "Rabbit Hole" that I think of often...

 

Becca: Does it ever go away?

Nat: No, I don't think it does. Not for me, it hasn't - has gone on for eleven years. But it changes though.

Becca: How?

Nat: I don't know... the weight of it, I guess. At some point, it becomes bearable. It turns into something that you can crawl out from under and... carry around like a brick in your pocket. And you... you even forget it, for a while. But then you reach in for whatever reason and - there it is. Oh right, that. Which could be aweful - not all the time. It's kinda...

[deep breath]

Nat: not that you'd like it exactly, but it's what you've got instead of your son. So, you carry it around. And uh... it doesn't go away. Which is...

Becca: Which is what?

Nat: Fine, actually.

[RealityMyArse]

If Cait had kept Carly, Carly would have been taken away from her.  Their lives were chaotic back then and adoption was the best thing for the child.  They lost contact because they would not follow the rules set down by the parents of Carly.  It was selfish and they lost out.  They have no one to blame but themselves. Nova is not being raised in an optimal way but they think they are stellar parents.  [shakes head, walks away]

I think the show is just perpetuating the chaos of these kids into adulthood.  They keep in touch and reinforce each other's craziness.

No doubt, adoption was the best thing for Carly, Cate, Tyler…everyone involved.

HOWEVER…

I keep going back to the scenes of Teresa and Brandon meeting then-pregnant Cate and PROMISNIG her yearly, supervised visits. They all agreed it would be best for everyone involved, INCLUDING Carly. And of course the big line that Teresa sold Cate and even had engraved on freakin' matching charm bracelets was, "It's not goodbye, its see you later."

Earp. ?

I'm an adoptive mom: three times over. 23 years of experience behind me now with open adoptions: some experiences good, some not so good. But through it all, you know what I always did? I kept my end of the adoption agreement in the "adoption triad": because it was the right thing to do, and I knew that my kids would benefit from it in the long run.

Shame on Teresa and Brandon for saying what they had to say to get Carly, and breaking a sacred trust to keep in touch with Carly's birth parents. They are making decisions right now on Carly's behalf they have no moral right to make.

That's an adoptive mom's two cents: I'm sure my birth moms would agree, as well.

[RealityMyArse]

  On 6/6/2017 at 4:47 PM, LotusFlower said:

Exactly.

Dawn's comment stood out to me, too.  What bothered me was not that Tyler is expecting Carly to contact them when she's eighteen so much as the unfair implication that B&T were the mean ones who kept her away.  To use Amber's word- it felt spiteful, like he wants to one day show Carly that he was always thinking of her and wanting contact, and the lack of contact wasn't his fault.  I think Dawn should have followed that up by saying that while that's understandable, he should think about.....IDK, other things, like why B&T decided otherwise, what was best for Carly....

Didn't he sound like a little bitch when he was saying that? It just made me hate him more. He does.not.get.it.

Actually, a reality TV show isn't the best place to discuss the terms of an adoption. But here's the agreement B&T entered into: a semi-open adoption, with yearly supervised visits. Pretty damn simple. B&T were well-aware of C&T's screwed-up past and home life, and as a professional counselor as well as an adoptive mom myself, when I saw the meetings between those four, what I saw was a quite virtually breathless perspective adoptive couple that would say and agree to practically anything to make Carly's adoption happen. Once the adoption went through, they granted a couple of visits, then they used the MTV angle and the "gee, your family's way too screwed up" angle to reneig on the yearly visits. Really, REALLY underhanded and unethical on the part of B&T, heartbreaking for C&T, and who knows what effect (if any) it will have in the future on Carly. I know I as an adoptive mom would never want to be accused by one of my kids as keeping their birth family from them: it's THEIR choice as to whether they will have a relationship. Brandon and Teresa need to honor their very reasonable obligation they walked into with two sets of very open eyes, cameras rolling.

[RealityMyArse]

Leah cracked me up when Matt said he was taking her to a friend of her Dad's house and she said "I hope it's close." She's a smart girl! I'm also glad that she seemed OK with the surprise move. A new school, moving away from friends, it can be pretty overwhelming for an 8 year old but she seemed to take it in stride. It was heartwarming to see how much she obviously loves her baby sister. That was too sweet but I did not like seeing her riding on the lawn tractor with Gary in the closing scenes. That is really dangerous and it is not uncommon for kids to get seriously injured/killed doing it.

When Kate opened up after the girl who chose adoption related her satisfaction with how her relationship with the parents and Cate opened up and actually seemed somewhat animated and talked about Theresa's "communication" and how she wished Theresa would call her and talk about her "fears" it seemed like Cate was really projecting there and also seemed like she saw herself as somehow being a co-parent with Theresa.

I do think that women and men contemplating placing a child for adoption should receive counseling from a licensed professional not affiliated with the adoption agency and their own independent attorney before any papers are signed.

In most states, every child has to have an attorney. Adoption agencies are completely optional.

[LotusFlower]

14 minutes ago, RealityMyArse said:

Actually, a reality TV show isn't the best place to discuss the terms of an adoption. But here's the agreement B&T entered into: a semi-open adoption, with yearly supervised visits. Pretty damn simple. B&T were well-aware of C&T's screwed-up past and home life, and as a professional counselor as well as an adoptive mom myself, when I saw the meetings between those four, what I saw was a quite virtually breathless perspective adoptive couple that would say and agree to practically anything to make Carly's adoption happen. Once the adoption went through, they granted a couple of visits, then they used the MTV angle and the "gee, your family's way too screwed up" angle to reneig on the yearly visits. Really, REALLY underhanded and unethical on the part of B&T, heartbreaking for C&T, and who knows what effect (if any) it will have in the future on Carly. I know I as an adoptive mom would never want to be accused by one of my kids as keeping their birth family from them: it's THEIR choice as to whether they will have a relationship. Brandon and Teresa need to honor their very reasonable obligation they walked into with two sets of very open eyes, cameras rolling.

Thanks for offering a different perspective.  I think you raise an important point by pointing out that Brandon and Theresa knew that Cate and Tyler came from a troubled background, and yet they still entered into the semi-open arrangement with yearly visits.  I've also been more sympathetic than some folks here re: C&T because they were raised with such bad role models, and to this day are still guided in the wrong direction by adult after adult, starting with their exploitation by the producers at MTV.  However, I think the C&T/B&T adoption is different from all others in one significant way - it's all played out on tv and on social media.  Maybe B & T were naive in not realizing how problematic all the publicity could be for themselves and Carly, but no one could have anticipated the ramifications of social media on their lives.  I don't follow the teen moms on SM, but those that do report that not only have Cate and Tyler posted pics of Carly when they were specifically asked not to, but their fans have very aggressively gone after B & T, and C & T either encourage it or don't do anything to stop it.  In other words, fame has affected this story in a big way.  

[poopchute]

I think the problem BrandonandTheresa have now is that they have repeatedly asked Tyler and Catelyn to stop sharing Carly's picture and stop sharing the details of their private conversations on camera and time after time, we see Tyler either refusing to comply or throwing a temper tantrum about it.  BrandonandTheresa are making a reasonable request: please don't share our daughter's photo with MILLIONS of strangers. And then here's Tyler angrily saying "I will not be silenced!!!!!!"  I think this is the only reason they cut the visits.  If visits with Carly are so important why can't Tyler and Catelyn comply with the requests?

[CofCinci]

2 hours ago, RealityMyArse said:

Actually, a reality TV show isn't the best place to discuss the terms of an adoption. But here's the agreement B&T entered into: a semi-open adoption, with yearly supervised visits. Pretty damn simple. B&T were well-aware of C&T's screwed-up past and home life, and as a professional counselor as well as an adoptive mom myself, when I saw the meetings between those four, what I saw was a quite virtually breathless perspective adoptive couple that would say and agree to practically anything to make Carly's adoption happen. Once the adoption went through, they granted a couple of visits, then they used the MTV angle and the "gee, your family's way too screwed up" angle to reneig on the yearly visits. Really, REALLY underhanded and unethical on the part of B&T, heartbreaking for C&T, and who knows what effect (if any) it will have in the future on Carly. I know I as an adoptive mom would never want to be accused by one of my kids as keeping their birth family from them: it's THEIR choice as to whether they will have a relationship. Brandon and Teresa need to honor their very reasonable obligation they walked into with two sets of very open eyes, cameras rolling.

B&T have gone above and beyond their obligations. We have seen the communications contract. They've honored it and have been quite generous. 

If C&T and their kinfolk weren't drug addicts, I'm sure C&T would see Carly more.  B&T didn't have to let Carly go to the wedding. That was not an obligation. They had a simple request that Butch stay away.  Did he? No. He didn't respect the boundaries.  Catelynn went to rehab and was shown doing drugs with her mother on Camera. Why would B&T want that around their child?

[jumper sage]

2 hours ago, poopchute said:

I think the problem BrandonandTheresa have now is that they have repeatedly asked Tyler and Catelyn to stop sharing Carly's picture and stop sharing the details of their private conversations on camera and time after time, we see Tyler either refusing to comply or throwing a temper tantrum about it.  BrandonandTheresa are making a reasonable request: please don't share our daughter's photo with MILLIONS of strangers. And then here's Tyler angrily saying "I will not be silenced!!!!!!"  I think this is the only reason they cut the visits.  If visits with Carly are so important why can't Tyler and Catelyn comply with the requests?

 

2 hours ago, CofCinci said:

B&T have gone above and beyond their obligations. We have seen the communications contract. They've honored it and have been quite generous. 

If C&T and their kinfolk weren't drug addicts, I'm sure C&T would see Carly more.  B&T didn't have to let Carly go to the wedding. That was not an obligation. They had a simple request that Butch stay away.  Did he? No. He didn't respect the boundaries.  Catelynn went to rehab and was shown doing drugs with her mother on Camera. Why would B&T want that around their child?

Both of you have excellent points.  Am I remembering correctly that the adoption liaison showed Cate what she signed and it DID NOT say what she thought it said?

[leighroda]

I get that B&T made an agreement, but at the point that agreement was made nobody knew the impact 16 and pregnant would make, or that teen mom would even exist... and I feel like all parties tried to take things in stride, it wasn't until B&T had fans of the show tracking them down that they requested privacy, which is a reasonable request. C&T continued to talk on air about private conversations, it's been 8 years they (C&T) were given plenty of chances to stop talking about off air conversations. It's one thing to mention Carly, we all know she exists at this point, but there have been multiple instances where Theresa has talked (texted) Cate and asked for her not to talk about it on tv, only for her to turn around and talk about it on tv. I don't really see what B&T are supposed to do but cut ties at this point. They tried to be reasonable about it, but C&T have done nothing to respect any of the boundaries they have set.

[AmyFarrahFowler]

On 6/12/2017 at 0:18 AM, RealityMyArse said:

Actually, a reality TV show isn't the best place to discuss the terms of an adoption. But here's the agreement B&T entered into: a semi-open adoption, with yearly supervised visits. Pretty damn simple. B&T were well-aware of C&T's screwed-up past and home life, and as a professional counselor as well as an adoptive mom myself, when I saw the meetings between those four, what I saw was a quite virtually breathless perspective adoptive couple that would say and agree to practically anything to make Carly's adoption happen. Once the adoption went through, they granted a couple of visits, then they used the MTV angle and the "gee, your family's way too screwed up" angle to reneig on the yearly visits. Really, REALLY underhanded and unethical on the part of B&T, heartbreaking for C&T, and who knows what effect (if any) it will have in the future on Carly. I know I as an adoptive mom would never want to be accused by one of my kids as keeping their birth family from them: it's THEIR choice as to whether they will have a relationship. Brandon and Teresa need to honor their very reasonable obligation they walked into with two sets of very open eyes, cameras rolling.

The only obligation B&T have is to protect Carly as her parents. In the years since her birth, Tyler and Catelynn have changed into very different people than they were first perceived. I get that they were young, I get that much has happened in those years but that's not something B&T need to feed into and above all, subject Carly to. They are known drug users. They subject the child that they did keep to an unstable ex-con that thinks his jail time and questionable sobriety is a huge joke (Free Butch?) while they go on yet another vacation. When Catelynn and Tyler are upset with B&T they blast their complaints on Social Media to the point that their crazy fans are stalking Brandon at his place of employment. This is not stable, reasonable behavior that I would want to subject my child to. If you would well, that's your business. I thank the heavens everyday that B&T were able to give one of Catelynn and Tyler's children a normal life away from the crazy.

Edited June 17, 2017 by AmyFarrahFowler
Double word

[SPLAIN]

C&T and their family are big fuck ups. That is a fact. We try to come up with reasons as to why B&T have backed away. That is one of the reasons WE have mentioned. However, Brandon and Teresa have never said or implied that was a reason for them. In reality, B&T have backed off because their agreement with C&T has not been honored. They have bent over backwards to accommodate C&T. When B&T asked C&T to be accommodating, they are ignored. On top of that, C&T have posted comments that led their "fans" to attack and intimidate B&T at their place of business. B&T have gone above and beyond their duties. C&T are not owed a thing. 

I am an adopted child. My siblings and I were all adopted at birth. I have never met my bio parents and I have no desire to meet them. I am glad because my parents are the people who actually adopted me. Being an adoptive parent or child doesn't give one's opinion more leeway. It is just my view, and plenty of adopted children do not care to have a connection with their bio parents nor do they care to have a relationship any half-siblings such as my sister who met her mother and half-siblings.  It took a toll on my sister and it was a choice she regretted. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by SPLAIN

[GreatKazu]

Quote

 Am I remembering correctly that the adoption liaison showed Cate what she signed and it DID NOT say what she thought it said?

@jumper sage yes, you are correct. 

Dawn pointed out to Cate and Tyler the little verbiage on the contract where it clearly showed that it was at "Brandon and Teresa's discretion" with regards to visitation and other requests made by Cate and Tyler. At that point, B&T had been accommodating and they had honored most, if not all, of C&T's requests. You could clearly see the sudden enlightenment in Cate's face as that was pointed out to her. 

The problem I see is, Cate and Tyler feel they OWE their fans on social media. They somehow feel the need to tell them everything and anything on social media. They haven't had any boundaries and they sure don't have privacy as far as their lives are concerned. Everything is put out there. They live in that world. The problem is they expect others to live that way and that is unreasonable. 

[CofCinci]

Neither Catelynn or Tyler kept an original copy of one of the most important documents they'd ever sign in their entire lives. 

[Cherry Cola]

I think they should stop talking, about Carly, unless it's producer driven, and proabably is, and funnel all that energy into the little precious child they do have.  

[Chris Knight]

1 hour ago, CofCinci said:

Neither Catelynn or Tyler kept an original copy of one of the most important documents they'd ever sign in their entire lives. 

You're kidding, right ? Unbelievable.

[MissMel]

59 minutes ago, Cherry Cola said:

I think they should stop talking, about Carly, unless it's producer driven, and proabably is, and funnel all that energy into the little precious child they do have.  

I think Cate kind of has, hasn't she?  She was asked a question and she answered it.  Tyler is the one that went on and on and acted so distraught like he was never going to give up.  The camera panned to Cate and she was turned away, mouth not saying a word, and glaring at him.  I think she might know how to respect Carly's parents and not be the one to ruin that relationship.  Tyler still acts like he's owed something.  He's also the one that specifically asked for a picture every year in that written agreement.  I don't think that's bad on it's own but knowing what we know now of him?  Yikes.

This show wasn't good for anyone in this particular situation.  Most of all, Ty and his ego.

[RealityMyArse]

I've read all the responses to the Cate/Tyler/Brandon/Teresa....and most importantly: CARLY…issue, with great interest. Our open adoptions (thankfully) did not include the intense social media scrutiny. However, I still maintain that one thing that could have diffused this situation greatly…even WITH the MTV lunacy and the social media element…is more, VERY CLOSELY SUPERVISED…contact. Let me explain: as we went on our 23 years of open adoption journeys…with families that were far from ideal…we found that the more access we granted to birth moms, interestingly the fewer visits they requested. And though we never tried this because we didn't view our kids as "experiments", it was an educated guess on our part that if we had started limited access/visits, birth moms would have started asking for more and more visits. So, by having an open door policy, we actually saw very little of our birth moms, and everyone in the end was happy. Our kids are grown now, and we have a great relationship with birth moms. Anyhow, for what it's worth, that's one mom's story. 

[RealityMyArse]

  1 hour ago, Cherry Cola said:

I think they should stop talking, about Carly, unless it's producer driven, and proabably is, and funnel all that energy into the little precious child they do have.  

I think Cate kind of has, hasn't she?  She was asked a question and she answered it.  Tyler is the one that went on and on and acted so distraught like he was never going to give up.  The camera panned to Cate and she was turned away, mouth not saying a word, and glaring at him.  I think she might know how to respect Carly's parents and not be the one to ruin that relationship.  Tyler still acts like he's owed something.  He's also the one that specifically asked for a picture every year in that written agreement.  I don't think that's bad on it's own but knowing what we know now of him?  Yikes.

This show wasn't good for anyone in this particular situation.  Most of all, Ty and his ego.

Dr. Drew should have a heart to heart with both Cate and Tyler off-camera. But that wouldn't make very compelling TV, would it? And there's the root of the problem: ultimately, Cate and Tyler have sold their lives to MTV, and that includes any and all discussions of their relationship with Carly. And whether or not they want to admit it, game over. That must be a very, very bitter pill (not the best imagery, considering the family we're talking about) to swallow. It's painfully obvious B&T are done with them: for Nova's sake and for their own sanity, C&T need to live in the now, and concentrate on raising Nova. PERIOD.

[poeticlicensed]

FWIW, if MTV was not part of the equation and if Tyler wasn't intent on famewhoring with MTV's blessing, I do think that B&T would be much more open to a more frequent visitation schedule. The other issue is that of the whole Lowell/Baltierra clan. I would not want my child exposed to the likes of Butch and  April. B&T must know all about it. The fact that at the wedding they specifically asked that Butch have no contact and then Butch ran right up to Carly is evidence that these people have no concept of boundaries, MTV or not. Everytime that B&T give an inch, MTV/C&T/the clan all come rushing through. I would also be bristling at C&T talking incessently about how Nova and iCarly are going to be reunited sisters the moment she turns 18. I feel bad for B&T that they are going to have to deal with this as iCarly gets older. But then again, if reality TV is involved, and they knew that upfront, it's bound to be a shitshow. But I'm sure they never thought in their wildest dreams that one segment on 16&P would spawn this monster that is TM.

[ginger90]

Quote

. The fact that at the wedding they specifically asked that Butch have no contact and then Butch ran right up to Carly is evidence that these people have no concept of boundaries, MTV or not. 

 

On the recent episode, didn't Cate and Tyler say they haven't seen Carly since their wedding? I could be remembering incorrectly.

[ghoulina]

Yea, I don't think Cate and Tyler's past or families have anything to do with B&T pulling back. They agreed to the open adoption and visitation knowing all that. In the beginning, they made every effort to send letters, go on visits, etc. I bet they didn't love the cameras, but they probably didn't think it would go on for years upon years. C&T's actions the last few years have shown a complete disregard for B&T as Carly's PARENTS. Carly was getting older, going to school, making friends; they wanted to dial way back. C&T wouldn't concede. They (mostly TY) acted like entitled brats who could do whatever they wanted because they procreated. To quote Gretchen Rossi, "Just because you pump a child out between your legs, it doesn't give you the God right to know how to parent!" 

They just act so noble, so superior. They GAVE B&T this kid and they should be grateful. And I'm sure B&T ARE grateful. But I know people who have given children up for adoption and they don't feel like C&T do. THEY feel grateful as well - "Thank you for making a home for our child when we couldn't, thank you for raising him/her and loving them so well". That kind of thing. At this point, it feels like C&T are USING B&T's daughter for their storyline and B&T have a duty to protect that child and give her as normal a life as possible. I don't blame them one bit. 

If C&T would have honored their request from day one, I bet you anything nothing would have changed on B&T's end. I bet they would have seen Carly by now, it just wouldn't be on camera. And I guess that's too big of a sacrifice for those famewhores to make. 

[eskimo]

10 hours ago, CofCinci said:

B&T have gone above and beyond their obligations. We have seen the communications contract. They've honored it and have been quite generous. 

If C&T and their kinfolk weren't drug addicts, I'm sure C&T would see Carly more.  B&T didn't have to let Carly go to the wedding. That was not an obligation. They had a simple request that Butch stay away.  Did he? No. He didn't respect the boundaries.  Catelynn went to rehab and was shown doing drugs with her mother on Camera. Why would B&T want that around their child?

*Bolding mine*

Not only that, he introduced himself to her as her grandfather.  That is an honored title in my opinion, and he is NOT her grandfather.  In fact he, and the environment he helped create, is a big reason Carly could not be raised in that home.  So he can shove the title of 'grandfather' up his butt. 

31 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

On the recent episode, didn't Cate and Tyler say they haven't seen Carly since their wedding? I could be remembering incorrectly.

I heard it that way as well.  It makes perfect sense to me, I always wondered what B & T thought about the way C & T disregarded their boundaries, especially when B & T went way out of their way to include Carly on their wedding day.  They did not have to do that and it shows just what C & T could still have to this day, if they weren't such idiots.

 

12 hours ago, RealityMyArse said:

I keep going back to the scenes of Teresa and Brandon meeting then-pregnant Cate and PROMISNIG her yearly, supervised visits. They all agreed it would be best for everyone involved, INCLUDING Carly. And of course the big line that Teresa sold Cate and even had engraved on freakin' matching charm bracelets was, "It's not goodbye, its see you later."
 

I truly feel like B & T's intention WAS to have C & T see Carly and get updates regularly.  That is evidenced by the fact that they brought her to their wedding.  Going to the birth parents wedding is not the actions of people who are looking to shut a door.  In fact I think Theresa had a special bond with Cate as well, but they had to back off because the unique situation they are in allows B & T, and both their kids, to be in a certain amount of danger if C & T don't respect the more-than-reasonable boundaries that were set up.  

 

1 hour ago, RealityMyArse said:

Let me explain: as we went on our 23 years of open adoption journeys…with families that were far from ideal…we found that the more access we granted to birth moms, interestingly the fewer visits they requested. And though we never tried this because we didn't view our kids as "experiments", it was an educated guess on our part that if we had started limited access/visits, birth moms would have started asking for more and more visits. So, by having an open door policy, we actually saw very little of our birth moms, and everyone in the end was happy.

This is a very interesting point!  And very true I'm sure.  My niece is going through a divorce and custody battle now with a man who had little tolerance or interest in his small children (2 & 5) when he lived with them.  To the point that when the youngest was in the hospital with RSV at 9 months old, he was upset that my niece was staying at the hospital with him, because he didn't think he should have to take care of the older one, and thought that the hospital should discharge the baby early.   But suddenly he wants full custody (only because that's the only thing my niece really wants, I'm certain).  They just had a temporary custody hearing and for the next few months he will get them one full week a month (they are in different states now), and two weeks over the summer.  I told her that after a couple of visits where he is the primary care giver, he will probably start to have important obligations during his week off that will prevent him from taking them that week.  I think it will be just as you have experienced. 

[SPLAIN]

16 hours ago, RealityMyArse said:

HOWEVER…

I keep going back to the scenes of Teresa and Brandon meeting then-pregnant Cate and PROMISNIG her yearly, supervised visits. They all agreed it would be best for everyone involved, INCLUDING Carly. And of course the big line that Teresa sold Cate and even had engraved on freakin' matching charm bracelets was, "It's not goodbye, its see you later."


 

Teresa didn't promise anything. She told Cate what she could offer Cate in the event she chose B&T as the adoptive parents, but all that would be figured out at in the final agreement. Cate had yet determined what it was she was wanting for the open adoption. The only things B&T were sure of and could offer the baby was a stable, nurturing and loving home.  What was said orally doesn't fly. It is the written agreement that matters, and to reiterate what was pointed out about that written agreement, the visits were to be done at the discretion of the adoptive parents. As for that bracelet, it was just a gift. A piece of jewelry doesn't bind these people. That was a gesture, and a nice one at that, from one grateful person to another and letting them know they share a bond. 

Here is the adoption video B&T made:http://heavy.com/entertainment/2015/03/brandon-and-teresa-teen-mom-carly-catelynn-tyler-parents-adoptive/

[Juniebaby]

Did anyone else notice when Farrah was on her date and she was in the salon she really seemed to like the guy.  She was smiling and happy.  The minute she heard he was from Israel she said she had to catch a plane and had to leave.

[CofCinci]

20 minutes ago, Juniebaby said:

Did anyone else notice when Farrah was on her date and she was in the salon she really seemed to like the guy.  She was smiling and happy.  The minute she heard he was from Israel she said she had to catch a plane and had to leave.

Perhaps she is done with men from cultures with very anti-intermarriage beliefs? Simon will never marry her. A Jewish guy from Israel probably wouldn't marry her either. 

[Christina]

I lost the quotes somehow, but regarding the adoption, I think that Bethany, with Dawn's help, did mislead Catelynn. She still, to this day, claims that the birth parents make the rules, at the same time as she was saying how upset she was to not know Carly's last name. What she thought would happen, and still thinks will happen (Carly moving in with them when she turns 18) is completely unrealistic and no one disabused her of those beliefs.

However, the major reason Brandon and Theresa had to back away lands solely at the feet of Catelynn and Tyler. Theresa tells them that Carly has gotten older, is going to school, and is more recognizable, and for her comfort and safety, they did not want anything they sent posted online or discussed on the show. Tyler proceeds to make a video of the photos B&T sent, and then posts it online. They then wanted to know why B&T wouldn't respond to their request for another visit, complained on the show, and their fans went into another attack mode, insisting B&T needed to return Carly to her "real parents" while C&T basked in the adoration. Finally, when B&T wouldn't respond and Dawn met with them, Tyler responded online that B&T were her real parents, and other general platitudes. He continues to talk about B&T on the show, though. 

The harassment by C&T's fans was horrible. Calling at work, showing up at their church to try and snap a photo, calling out her name at the grocery store, etc. and B&T owed it to Carly to try and put a stop to it. I don't think they ever wanted to cut C&T out of Carly's life or restrict access as much as they have, and C&T could have course corrected the issues a long time ago, but Tyler (mostly) thrives on fan contact and really doesn't seem to give a damn about how it affects Carly. I wish Brandon and Theresa were given a talking head about what has happened with the trolling, because I think most people would understand the pull back. The leg-humpers wouldn't, but no reasonable person would doubt the fear of some Teen Mom fan trying to snatch a photo or snatch her to return her to her 'real parents." 

If this show was cancelled tomorrow, the situation would probably course correct back to more visits. But until then, I don't think B&T would find it safe to keep it very open, because Tyler can't help himself from posting photos or claiming Carly called him dad. 

[lexiexx]

If Cate is so concerned with Brandon and Theresa honoring those open adoption requests she should have acted like someone t hey would want Carly associated with.   And if they don't like Brandon and Theresa having that power they should have kept Carly.    I don't think they will ever see Carly again after they have been shown doing drugs, leaving Nova with Butch and April, now the Xanax thing.    Brandon and Theresa are probably appalled by Cate and Tyler in general right now.

9 hours ago, Christina said:

I lost the quotes somehow, but regarding the adoption, I think that Bethany, with Dawn's help, did mislead Catelynn. She still, to this day, claims that the birth parents make the rules, at the same time as she was saying how upset she was to not know Carly's last name. What she thought would happen, and still thinks will happen (Carly moving in with them when she turns 18) is completely unrealistic and no one disabused her of those beliefs.

However, the major reason Brandon and Theresa had to back away lands solely at the feet of Catelynn and Tyler. Theresa tells them that Carly has gotten older, is going to school, and is more recognizable, and for her comfort and safety, they did not want anything they sent posted online or discussed on the show. Tyler proceeds to make a video of the photos B&T sent, and then posts it online. They then wanted to know why B&T wouldn't respond to their request for another visit, complained on the show, and their fans went into another attack mode, insisting B&T needed to return Carly to her "real parents" while C&T basked in the adoration. Finally, when B&T wouldn't respond and Dawn met with them, Tyler responded online that B&T were her real parents, and other general platitudes. He continues to talk about B&T on the show, though. 

The harassment by C&T's fans was horrible. Calling at work, showing up at their church to try and snap a photo, calling out her name at the grocery store, etc. and B&T owed it to Carly to try and put a stop to it. I don't think they ever wanted to cut C&T out of Carly's life or restrict access as much as they have, and C&T could have course corrected the issues a long time ago, but Tyler (mostly) thrives on fan contact and really doesn't seem to give a damn about how it affects Carly. I wish Brandon and Theresa were given a talking head about what has happened with the trolling, because I think most people would understand the pull back. The leg-humpers wouldn't, but no reasonable person would doubt the fear of some Teen Mom fan trying to snatch a photo or snatch her to return her to her 'real parents." 

If this show was cancelled tomorrow, the situation would probably course correct back to more visits. But until then, I don't think B&T would find it safe to keep it very open, because Tyler can't help himself from posting photos or claiming Carly called him dad. 

I agree 100% that Catelynn was misled.   The fact that she still claims birth mothers can lay out the adoption plan the way they want it is disgusting.    She is leaving out the caveat that its not enforceable.  Tyler and Cate should have gone on social media and told their weirdo fans to back off and let Carly live a normal life.   Instead they add fuel to the fire by complaining about it.    They are just so selfish and immature.  

[mittsigirl]

On 2017-6-12 at 0:36 AM, RealityMyArse said:

So sorry for your loss, Calm81. It was 13 years ago on 6/09/04 that I lost my 5 year old daughter, Jasmine. I adopted her at age 2 from China: she was missing the left side of her brain. She was an amazing little girl, and I miss her every single day, and look forward to seeing her in heaven. Thinking of you and your child. ?

So sorry for your loss Reality. I can't wait to see mine

in Heaven someday, too. I dearly hold onto that hope.

On 2017-6-12 at 0:38 AM, RealityMyArse said:

So sorry to read these stories: I've been there. My daughter was 5 when she died in her sleep. We go on, but it never gets "easy". (((Hugs))))

I can't believe so many of us here have lost our children.

Maybe that is exactly why these teen 'moms', who ignore

and emotionally abuse their kids, piss us off so much.

I know that every single one of us would do anything

to have them back. Then there is Amber, just too tired

and too upset to see her precious daughter. Breaks

my heart.

[mamadrama]

On 6/13/2017 at 11:29 AM, mittsigirl said:

So sorry for your loss Reality. I can't wait to see mine

in Heaven someday, too. I dearly hold onto that hope.

I can't believe so many of us here have lost our children.

Maybe that is exactly why these teen 'moms', who ignore

and emotionally abuse their kids, piss us off so much.

I know that every single one of us would do anything

to have them back. Then there is Amber, just too tired

and too upset to see her precious daughter. Breaks

my heart.

I was pregnant with my son when Amber & Co. were pregnant with their children. I felt like we were going through our pregnancies together. Our kids were born and I was able to watch some of those earlier episodes. Then my son died. I must admit, in the darkest days, it angered me that I lost MY child while some of these dummies could do practically anything to theirs and everything was okay. It wasn't that I wanted Leah, Sophia, et all to die, but when you're that early in grief you're pretty much pissed off at the world and wondering how YOU won that awful lottery. I was then pregnant with my "rainbow baby" during the TEEN MOM 2 era. That was all 8 years ago. Lots of things have changed, especially my grief. In many ways, however, I still feel connected to this cast. 

[guilfoyleatpp]

On 6/12/2017 at 7:27 PM, Christina said:

If this show was cancelled tomorrow, the situation would probably course correct back to more visits. But until then, I don't think B&T would find it safe to keep it very open, because Tyler can't help himself from posting photos or claiming Carly called him dad. 

I think if MTV wasn't there pushing to film visits with Carly, C&T might be less interested. It's like a snake eating it's own tail...camera crew arrives, pushes C&T to reach out to B&T, they then film visits or film calls or film texts or film no response, B&T see and get pissed off about whatever it is and the commentary on it.

Cate and Tyler are uniquely unmotivated in every other aspect of their lives. I can't see them being overly excited to see Carly for a couple of hours every few months if the crew wasn't bugging them about it. 

Perhaps Brandon and Theresa have noticed this and are trying to protect their daughter from the inevitable hurt when the cameras leave and Cate and Tyler lose interest. 

[Caracoa1]

I'm wondering if when the MTV money train ends for good if Cate and Tyler will ramp up their interest in Carly?  That would make headlines and get their mugs on rag mags and possible daytime talk shows...they have no education and no means to support their current lifestyle once the show ends....they will need to stay relevant to keep the cash flowing.

[jacksgirl]

Now come on Caracoa, Tyler and Cate have their "passion". If mean old MTV will only let them do more of their Reunited  shows...... oh wait, those shows were too heavy for us to watch. I actually watched the episode, Cate and Tyler were clueless.

[CofCinci]

37 minutes ago, Caracoa1 said:

I'm wondering if when the MTV money train ends for good if Cate and Tyler will ramp up their interest in Carly?  That would make headlines and get their mugs on rag mags and possible daytime talk shows...they have no education and no means to support their current lifestyle once the show ends....they will need to stay relevant to keep the cash flowing.

They'll probably do what they did before MTV added a zero to the checks -- get paid by Bethany to exploit more young women. 

[MargeGunderson]

11 hours ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

Cate and Tyler are uniquely unmotivated in every other aspect of their lives. I can't see them being overly excited to see Carly for a couple of hours every few months if the crew wasn't bugging them about it. 

 

I think that if they had to actually parent Carly for a couple of weeks that could solve this whole issue. Not saying that Carly's not a lovely child, just that when faced with the reality of Carly vs. their dream of Carly, reality will take work and that's not something either of them excel at, unless it involves useless preening/attention seeking or quesadillas.

[teapot]

8 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

 

I think that if they had to actually parent Carly for a couple of weeks that could solve this whole issue. Not saying that Carly's not a lovely child, just that when faced with the reality of Carly vs. their dream of Carly, reality will take work and that's not something either of them excel at, unless it involves useless preening/attention seeking or quesadillas.

although, she's like eight years old, right?  and I'm sure B & T have done a lovely job of parenting her, so C & T would be wondering why she is so much better behaved than Nova!

[RamonaSenomar]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 3:51 AM, mittsigirl said:

Well do I ever feel dumb about the wrong poop! I did tape the show, but I just can't bring myself to watch the damn thing, same as all of the others this season, I tape then erase after I find out everything here from you guys, as well as on twitter. I know I have told you that I lost a daughter to cancer. I have a really hard time watching these non-mothers, the way they ignore and neglect their daughters. You just can't take a child's life for-granted, long lives are not guaranteed, just because they are children. I would give ANYTHING to have my child back, and these losers say they are 'mothers'? Amber especially. Makes me so mad and sad at the same time. Sorry for the rant.

@mittsigirl, my condolences to you on your loss as well.  I know that the loss of a child is one that we parents never, ever get over. 

I did mention it once (or twice) on these boards that DH and I are parents to a twinless twin.  After several attempts at fertility treatments, I was ultimately pregnant with B/G twins.  My son was stillborn on 7.22.2008 at 32 weeks gestation.  His surviving twin sister was delivered and sent straight to NICU for 28 days.  While it's been almost 9 years, there's not one day that goes by that I wouldn't give my right arm to have my son with us.  To see Maci drink through a pregnancy, Cate and Tyler ignore Nova while wailing about depression, and Amber call herself a good mom while purposefully and willfully missing Leah's weekends is enough to send me over the edge with emotion.

 

[mittsigirl]

8 hours ago, RamonaSenomar said:

@mittsigirl, my condolences to you on your loss as well.  I know that the loss of a child is one that we parents never, ever get over. 

I did mention it once (or twice) on these boards that DH and I are parents to a twinless twin.  After several attempts at fertility treatments, I was ultimately pregnant with B/G twins.  My son was stillborn on 7.22.2008 at 32 weeks gestation.  His surviving twin sister was delivered and sent straight to NICU for 28 days.  While it's been almost 9 years, there's not one day that goes by that I wouldn't give my right arm to have my son with us.  To see Maci drink through a pregnancy, Cate and Tyler ignore Nova while wailing about depression, and Amber call herself a good mom while purposefully and willfully missing Leah's weekends is enough to send me over the edge with emotion.

 

I am so sorry Ramona:( I just can't imagine what you went thru, and seeing the twin who survived, albeit it is a happy thing, it has to bring back those sad memories.

Yes, those girls who call themselves 'mom's are sorely lacking. They have no idea how quickly life can change, nobody is promised tomorrow.