A League of Their Own (1992): Women, Baseball, and that Darn Ending...

[Crs97]

I am so glad they cut all the nonsense about Dottie and Bob’s marriage.  I loved that they were happily married and settled and he was so proud when she played that final game.

[Bastet]

I also like that her marriage wasn't a storyline, that he's just sort of there and the one thing of him we know is he's completely supportive of her playing, but the backstory and dynamic that originally existed but didn't air gives me a chuckle, because Bill Pullman is totally bland to me in every role he plays, and has an unparalleled ability to generate zero chemistry with all the women with whom he shares the screen, so when I read about and now that I've seen those deleted scenes, they make perfect sense to me just because Bob is played by Bill Pullman.

I'm going to listen to the rest of commentary (Penny Marshall, Lori Petty, Tracy Reiner, and Megan Cavanaugh) tonight, as after watching the deleted scenes last night I fell asleep just a few minutes into it, so I'll report in tomorrow with any more good bits of trivia.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Bastet

[Crs97]

Thanks, Bastet, for sharing!  I always love learning the choices directors make or are forced to make behind the scenes.

[Dr.OO7]

12 hours ago, Bastet said:

Originally, Jimmy was at The Suds Bucket, too.  He'd seen the women sneaking out while Miss Cuthbert puked, but obviously he could give a shit if they're breaking that particular rule, so he just wound up there drinking himself.  That guy who gives Kit a kiss on the cheek was originally trying to get her to go out to his truck with him, and bet her that she couldn't strike him out; if she couldn't, she had to go out to the truck with him.  She gets two strikes in a row, and then as she's gearing up for the third pitch, Mae encourages her to let him win - after all, what did she come here for?  So Kit is winding up to purposely miss, when Jimmy grabs her arm, and tells her maybe this is a decision that shouldn't be made after a pitcher of beer.  Then he looks at the guy (who is now shirtless) and says, then again, maybe it should and walks away.  Kit thinks about it briefly, and throws a perfect strike.

There was also a scene at the bar where he comes to Dottie's rescue -- remember how she's there with just a coat over her nightgown?  Well, she had Marla on her back as she dragged her off the stage, but Marla of course went down and took the coat with her.  In a cute move, Dottie isn't particularly concerned about standing there in a bar in her nightgown, but when Marla's dress rides up her thigh as she hits the ground, Dottie quickly pulls it back down.  But then Mr. Lowenstein enters the bar, so before he can spot Dottie, Jimmy knocks him out from behind with a bottle.  As he hoists him up over his shoulder, Dottie asks what Jimmy is going to tell him when he wakes up, and Jimmy says he'll just drop him off in bed with Miss Cuthbert, and that will keep him from ever mentioning it.  I'm glad that one got cut (she didn't say why, so it may have just been for time).

I'm glad there were some signs Jimmy wasn't that bad even before he started to get his act together.

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I am so glad they cut all the nonsense about Dottie and Bob’s marriage.  I loved that they were happily married and settled and he was so proud when she played that final game.

So am I. I know when I watched the movie for the first time I expected Dottie and Jimmy to ended up together and was pleasantly surprised that didn't happen. I liked that Dottie was happily married and had zero interested in being with Jimmy. That instead they became friends. It worked really well.   

[Crs97]

Another touch I liked was even when Jimmy was at his worst and just showing up to wave to the crowd and collect his paycheck, he still knew his baseball and players well enough to tell Dottie she was crazy for signaling bunt to Marla when she was their best hitter.

[Bastet]

I wound up going in and out of sleep while the commentary played, but I still picked up lots of interesting stuff:

Lori Petty actually can easily outrun Geena Davis, so it was hard for her, in shooting the scenes where Kit and Dottie are racing and when they’re trying to catch the train, to come in behind her yet still look like she was running as fast as she could.  On the other hand, it was very easy for her to capture the sibling dynamic, because she felt a lot of pressure as a relatively new actor and an unconventionally-attractive woman to measure up to this glamorous Oscar winner.

The studio wanted the movie to end with Dottie and Kit saying goodbye at the buses, not wanting the Hall of Fame scene with the real players, but Marshall had final cut and told them to bugger off, those women were the entire reason she was making the film.  Also, when she and the writers went in to pitch it to Fox, a studio exec interrupted to ask who was going to play the coach.  Marshall said, “Shut up!  We’re telling you a story here, listen to it.  Who cares who plays the coach?”  She went through a lot to get the movie made, and at one point Fox was slated to do it with another (male) director.  It wound up being a situation where Sony was courting her, and threw in, "We'll even make that girl movie you want to do."

In the script, Kit and Dottie had not seen each other since they went their separate ways, but test audiences didn’t buy that, so they added in the part during the HoF ceremony where Kit’s family knows Dottie, and when they tacked on the beginning scene between Older Dottie and her daughter (the studio didn’t like just going right to people entering the HoF) they had the daughter say “you hardly ever get to see her” or whatever it was, not “you haven’t seen her in 40 years.”  I’m glad they did that; I think what they wound up with is realistic – they don’t see each other much, because Dottie likes to play life safe while Kit likes adventure, so Dottie and Bob would just do their thing in Oregon while Kit and Frank would travel, but they’re not estranged and thus do see each other occasionally.

The actors playing the older versions of the characters worked very closely with their younger counterparts so they seemed like realistic versions of them, even coordinating on what type of hairstyle the character would have at that age.

Speaking of hair, Marshall made all the (female) stars dye their hair, because they all had highlights, which women didn’t have back then, so she made them dye their hair a solid color.  Lori Petty wore a wig, because she has such short hair, so she was even hotter than everyone else sweating away in those wool costumes.

The period detail did not stop at the wardrobes; the gloves don’t have webbing between the fingers, as was the case back then, so balls kept going through them and a few people – including Anne Ramsay – wound up with a broken nose.  Everyone had blistered hands, because they had to hit without using batting gloves, which didn’t exist then – and not just while filming, but while practicing, too, because they needed to learn to do it that way.  Even the way the field is mowed was done the way it was then, not as it is now (so they had to keep re-mowing Wrigley Field).  In training, Geena Davis has baseball-shaped bruises, complete with imprint of the laces, all up her forearms because it took her a while to get good at catching.

They had two days to shoot at the HoF, and on day two Marshall was going to lose eight of the real players who had to leave for an event elsewhere.  When, as day one was drawing to a close, Marshall wondered how to handle this, they told her, "Penny, we'll just make it a double-header."  So all these women in their 70s - the real players and the older actors - shot for 24 hours, sleeping on the floor and benches at Cooperstown in between takes, to get it done.

When Madonna joined training, she brought a boombox onto the field, and told everyone, “If you break it, you buy it.”  Rosie O’Donnell told her, “You have more money than most third-world countries; shut up.”  (As we’ve often heard, they became great friends.  And, that story notwithstanding, everyone talked about how not a diva she was, and what a hard worker.) 

The studio insisted on Dottie reforming Jimmy from his alcoholic ways, which both Marshall and Tom Hanks found ridiculous, so their version of acquiescence to that request was that scene where Dottie hands him a soda and he does the exaggerated "Ahhh."  Hee.

Tom Hanks showed up every day for the game scenes, even when he wasn't needed, to help entertain the large crowd of extras who were also sweltering in their period costumes. 

In training, O'Donnell kept cheating when they were supposed to run laps, and Marshall caught on, so she'd feel the back of O'Donnell's shirt, and if it wasn't sweaty, she'd make her go run another lap. 

This has been brought up before, but I love it: One of the reasons O'Donnell was cast is she's one of the few people who can understand everything Marshall says, and she'd translate to all the people standing around asking, "What'd she just say?" 

Also, when the Marshall siblings talk to each other, they did it in such shorthand that no one who heard it knew what they had actually discussed, because so many words were missing.

Despite all the exercise they got, they put on weight because all the activity made them ravenous and they over-indulged at the craft services table.  No one realized it while filming, because they looked thin compared to all the local women cast as players (since they're "normal" thin, not Hollywood thin).  When they got home, Madonna called up Marshall and said, "I'm fat!"  Word trickled in they'd all gained weight.

Jon Lovitz, when he had to do the scene where Mr. Capadino reacts to seeing Marla's face for the first time, felt bad and kept reassuring Cavanaugh that she's not ugly.  She told him not to worry about it; she's laughing all the way to the bank.  (She was working as a server when she was cast, and didn't even have an agent.)

During the cow-milking scene, they had to stop filming because a cow was going into labor.  Lovitz is oblivious to what goes on around him, so he wondered why they were stopping.  Marshall said, "Um, Jon, a cow just fell over and is delivering a calf!"  The farmers named the calf Penny.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Bastet

[Mabinogia]

9 minutes ago, Bastet said:

The studio wanted the movie to end with Dottie and Kit saying goodbye at the buses, not wanting the Hall of Fame scene with the real players, but Marshall had final cut and told them to bugger off, those women were the entire reason she was making the film.

That is my favorite scene, because Marshall is right, they are the reason this movie was made and I LOVED seeing the real women and imagine how proud and excited they must have been that their story was being told. I always get a bit teary eyed at that scene just because of the reality of it. 

I will appreciate the film more knowing how much the cast and crew put into it. It sounds like it was a real labor of love for many of them. Yay!

[festivus]

On 12/26/2018 at 12:25 PM, Bastet said:

 

- It bugged her that (test) audiences wanted Dottie and Jimmy to get together - hello; it's 1943, and a woman can't easily divorce her husband - so she cut the kiss between them because it just fueled that fire

I'm so glad she did. Other kinds of relationships are just as important as romance. 

 

25 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Also, when she and the writers went in to pitch it to Fox, a studio exec interrupted to ask who was going to play the coach.  Marshall said, “Shut up!  We’re telling you a story here, listen to it.  Who cares who plays the coach?”  She went through a lot to get the movie made, and at one point Fox was slated to do it with another (male) director.  It wound up being a situation where Sony was courting her, and threw in, "We'll even make that girl movie you want to do."

AHH, flames on the side of my face! 

 

31 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Jon Lovitz, when he had to do the scene here Mr. Capadino reacts to seeing Marla's face for the first time, felt bad and kept reassuring Cavanaugh that she's not ugly.  She told him not to worry about it; she's laughing all the way to the bank.  (She was working as a server when she was cast, and didn't even have an agent.)

Awww. I love Marla and I think she's adorable. The part with her and her dad is my favorite part of the movie. I tear up just thinking about it.

 

 

Thanks for all these details. I love this movie, I think I'll have to get this edition. I did get an Amazon gift card for Christmas.

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, festivus said:

I love Marla and I think she's adorable. The part with her and her dad is my favorite part of the movie. I tear up just thinking about it.

I get choked up at that scene every time.  The movie ran way too long, so they had to find lots of things to cut.  Someone, I'm not sure if it was the editor or a studio exec, said they could lose that scene!  Marshall said no way, that would be crazy, and she cut the scene with Marla, Dottie, Kit, and Capadino on the train instead.  Also, filming the scene when Marla's dad comes over to plead her case (after Capadino walked away because she wasn't pretty), Jon Lovitz wasn't blinking.  Marshall asked him what he was doing, and he said he'd been told if you blink, the director will cut to a shot of the other character.  She asked him, "Do you really think I'm going to have the camera on you while this man is delivering these lines?  Just react!"

Oh, and the other part that always makes me tear up, when Stillwell says he had to come, because Evelyn always said this was the best time she ever had in her life, always made Marshall cry, too.

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

I will appreciate the film more knowing how much the cast and crew put into it. It sounds like it was a real labor of love for many of them. Yay!

Like any interview with any of them about it, the special features make clear how much this film meant to everyone - at the time and even now.  They knew they were making something special, and were very invested in rectifying the shameful fact most of America didn't even know this league had existed.  They wanted to do right by these women.  Some of them are still involved with AAGPBL events, and all of them are over the moon at how many people still come up to them all the time about this film.  Especially when it's young girls.  Anne Ramsay talked about how many men whisper to her that this is their favorite sports film, and she thinks/says, "Why are you whispering?  It is okay for men to like movies about women."  (Of course, Geena Davis's research institute has revealed over and over again that men very much watch movies and TV shows about women, and they make money, yet the idea stubbornly persists that only women will watch such projects so there are still far too few of them getting made.)

They also had a true blast making the movie, all those months of hard work together.  They loved having a woman directing, and loved working with so many other women (because that's very much not the normal experience on a movie set).  When reporters would come to interview the cast during filming, they'd all ask things along the lines of, "So, a big group of women, huh?  Lots of catfights to tell us about?"  Geena Davis would get so mad, explaining, no, hello, in general women love working together and support each other, and that's very much the case here.

The special features also make clear how close Penny and Garry were, and it was poignant to watch them talk about each other with them both now gone.  Tracy was obviously quite close to both of them, too.

Oh, another bit of trivia I just remembered from the commentary -- the scene of Kit cracking up at the charm school and Dottie hushing her was just Lori Petty not being able to keep it together (she spent all two days of that shoot trying not to laugh) and Geena Davis reacting in character, and Marshall loved it so she kept it in.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Bastet

[festivus]

18 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Anne Ramsay talked about how many men whisper to her that this is their favorite sports film, and she thinks/says, "Why are you whispering?  It is okay for men to like movies about women."  (Of course, Geena Davis's research institute has revealed over and over again that men very much watch movies and TV shows about women, and they make money, yet the idea stubbornly persists that only women will watch such projects so there are still far too few of them getting made.)

I was working on a rant about this but I'm not great with words so I'll just say I don't know why this idea persists that men don't like movies with women main casts. Men like things that are good, just like everyone else does. All the guys I know love this movie. It's like the reverse of the opinion that I just can't love action and superhero movies as much as I do because I'm a woman. Sigh.

[VCRTracking]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

The studio wanted the movie to end with Dottie and Kit saying goodbye at the buses, not wanting the Hall of Fame scene with the real players, but Marshall had final cut and told them to bugger off, those women were the entire reason she was making the film. 

That ending also inspired the ending of Schindler's List. Spielberg asked Marshall if he can use the idea of seeing the real life people in the epilogue and Penny said "Sure, I don't own nothin'."

I thought I posted this tweet by Ava DuVernay after Penny died but the post is blank so here it is:

[Bastet]

1 minute ago, VCRTracking said:

That ending also inspired the ending of Schindler's List. Spielberg asked Marshall if he can use the idea of seeing the real life people in the epilogue and Penny said "Sure, I don't own nothin'."

Yep (I'm trying to limit my posts to trivia that hasn't been noted before, since they're so long).  Spielberg also asked her if Older Dottie was Geena made up, or just her voice, and Marshall considered it the highest compliment that it worked so well someone of his experience and caliber had to ask.

Also, the initial plan was for all the Older Characters to be voiced by the younger actors, but Rosie O'Donnell just could not match her voice at all to the Older Doris actor's delivery in one section, and others were having some trouble, too, so she scrapped it for all but Dottie.  Geena Davis had to work very hard at syncing her voice to the actor's delivery, because Lynn Cartwright speaks much slower than she does.

As for the scene with the black women, I'll have to go back and watch that part with the commentary, because I was either dozing off or just coming to, but in talking about how much they love that scene, I think I heard one of them say that was another one it was suggested to be cut for time.  I'm sure Marshall never would have even entertained the idea.  Its inclusion made me nearly stand up and cheer the first time I saw the film (in the theatre).  To have made this celebration of the opportunity and experience this league gave the women playing in it without acknowledging women of color were excluded from it (and even segregated as spectators in some cities) would have been a serious oversight, but one that sadly a lot of white writers and directors would have made.

[Scarlett45]

I figured you guys would enjoy this podcast. 

 

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hold-up/id1447197423?mt=2&i=1000426782879

[VCRTracking]

Tom Hanks talking about Penny on Conan:

Rosie O'Donnell talking about Penny at 3:24 of this Seth Meyers clip:

 

Both talk about how Penny shot a LOT of footage to give her more options editing later.

[UYI]

[kiddo82]

On 11/1/2018 at 2:23 AM, VCRTracking said:

I think Kit just needed a Nellie Oleson-like rival to focus her hatred on, then she  would have gotten along with Dottie more!

What's the line from Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?  Something like "You mean all this time, we could have been friends?".  Different circumstances for sure but it certainly applies at the end of this movie too.

[Jediknight]

A League of Their Own Funko Pops are coming!

Granted right now it's just Jimmy and Dottie, but you know if they sell, there will be more released.  Perhaps we'll get Marla, May, Doris, Kit, the woman from Wizard of Oz, and that waitress from South Bend.

[kiddo82]

16 hours ago, Jediknight said:

the woman from Wizard of Oz

For a movie with so, so many great quotes, "By the way, I loved you in The Wizard of Oz" is up there for my all time favorite.  I laugh, like real belly laugh, every single time.

[VCRTracking]

RIP Eddie Jones, you were one of the best fictional dads ever. I am crying just thinking about his scenes with Marla.

[festivus]

Yes, best fictional dad ever. Makes me think about how much I miss my daddy. RIP Mr. Jones.

[Bastet]

He's magnificent in both his scenes* - a small gem in a movie filled with them.  That scene at the train station activates my tear ducts every time, when Marla is hesitant to go because who's going to take care of him, and he tells her nothing is ever going to happen here, and she has to go where things happen. 

*I'm sure I mentioned this before, but there was another scene not with him, but about him, that got cut for time: calling back to their train station conversation about the condition of her glove, Marla opens a package from him and finds a new glove.  She marvels that he must have spent an entire week's pay on it, and the next thing we see is her mailing him cash.  It's lovely; she's never had a paycheck before, so she's excited in general, and so honored to be able to use one to give him a gift in return. 

[festivus]

4 minutes ago, Bastet said:

That scene at the train station activates my tear ducts every time, when Marla is hesitant to go because who's going to take care of him, and he tells her nothing is ever going to happen here, and she has to go where things happen. 

I always cry at that scene.  I think I wrote in here somewhere that Marla and her daddy are my favorite part of a great movie (probably because I was always Daddy's girl and there was no-one I loved more than him).  I'm not sure I can even watch that scene anymore.

[Bastet]

This is on TV again, so of course I'm watching it again, and because I've spent nearly 30 years complaining about Kit - and stand by every one of those annoyances with her - but only the past year or so giving credit for something great she does, I have to reiterate my love for that scene, because it's wonderful and I'm ashamed it took me so long to notice:

When Dottie and Kit realize Capadino isn't taking Marla because she's not pretty, they both immediately drop their suitcases and refuse to go with him.  They aren't looking at each other, and Dottie isn't even a second ahead of Kit; Kit is not in any way following Dottie's lead.  Dottie doesn't even want to do this league tryout to begin with, is just doing it for Kit, while to Kit this seems her only possible chance at the kind of life she wants.  But, like Dottie, Kit doesn't hesitate to consider whether she's willing to put it on the line for a stranger.  A woman is being treated unfairly, and she, just like her more-privileged sister, instinctually will not stand for it.

It's a small but powerful moment in a film filled with them.

And since it relates to Marla, I'll go ahead and say for the umpteenth time that the scene at the train station between Marla and her dad is perfect.  Penny Marshall, who saw it untold number of times during filming and editing, teared up every time.  So it's no wonder I do the same every time I watch it.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Bastet

[Cobalt Stargazer]

*checks various schedules online*

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, Bastet said:

This is on TV again, so of course I'm watching it again, and because I've spent nearly 30 years complaining about Kit - and stand by every one of those annoyances with her - but only the past year or so giving credit for something great she does, I have to reiterate my love for that scene, because it's wonderful and I'm ashamed it took me so long to notice:

When Dottie and Kit realize Capadino isn't taking Marla because she's not pretty, they both immediately drop their suitcases and refuse to go with him.  They aren't looking at each other, and Dottie isn't even a second ahead of Kit; Kit is not in any way following Dottie's lead.  Dottie doesn't even want to do this league tryout to begin with, is just doing it for Kit, while to Kit this seems her only possible chance at the kind of life she wants.  But, like Dottie, Kit doesn't hesitate to consider whether she's willing to put it on the line for a stranger.  A woman is being treated unfairly, and she, just like her more-privileged sister, instinctually will not stand for it.

It's a small but powerful moment in a film filled with them.

And since it relates to Marla, I'll go ahead and say for the umpteenth time that the scene at the train station between Marla and her dad is perfect.  Penny Marshall, who saw it untold number of times during filming and editing, teared up every time.  So it's no wonder I do the same every time I watch it.

I love both of those scene. Its so great that both women refuse to go because Marla was being treated unfairly. And the scene between Marla and her dad is so sweet. 

[VCRTracking]

 

 

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

 

 

Rest in Peace Mary Pratt. Condolences to her family and friends. 101 years is amazing and now hopefully your playing baseball in Heaven.

[krankydoodle]

I got a copy today of Shea Serrano's book Movies (And Other Things) which has a chapter titled "Did the Rockford Peaches make the right decision trading Kit?" He also tackles the question in the thread title and identifies who should be blamed for Rockford losing the World Series. It's been a long time since I last watched the movie so I couldn't remember a lot of the details he uses to support his conclusions, but it was still a fun read and I figured some here might enjoy it. It makes me happy that there's still so much interest in this movie and debate over the ending.

[Ohiopirate02]

8 minutes ago, krankydoodle said:

I got a copy today of Shea Serrano's book Movies (And Other Things) which has a chapter titled "Did the Rockford Peaches make the right decision trading Kit?" He also tackles the question in the thread title and identifies who should be blamed for Rockford losing the World Series. It's been a long time since I last watched the movie so I couldn't remember a lot of the details he uses to support his conclusions, but it was still a fun read and I figured some here might enjoy it. It makes me happy that there's still so much interest in this movie and debate over the ending.

Rockford also would have stood a better chance at winning if Marla had not decided to get married when she did.  I rewatched this over the weekend, and was baffled that she quit the team to get married.  The timeline didn't make any sense even with a war on.  She meets Nelson during the season, court long enough to get a proposal, and plan a wedding in what 2 months?  If they rushed it because he was shipping out, then why couldn't she stay on the team after her honeymoon?

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Rockford also would have stood a better chance at winning if Marla had not decided to get married when she did.  I rewatched this over the weekend, and was baffled that she quit the team to get married.  The timeline didn't make any sense even with a war on.  She meets Nelson during the season, court long enough to get a proposal, and plan a wedding in what 2 months?  If they rushed it because he was shipping out, then why couldn't she stay on the team after her honeymoon?

In the script and original cut of the film, she came back - but playing for Racine - but the scene revealing that got cut because the Jimmy/Dottie kiss got cut.

Marla was pregnant, but couldn't let the coach know or she'd get kicked off the team and she and Nelson needed the money (which, yes, begs the question why she quit mid-season in the first place).  She fakes a back injury so she doesn't get put in much to begin with, and then the players - who all know she's pregnant - finagle things when she is on the field so that she only has to make simple plays.

When the Peaches are warming up to play the Belles, they're reunited with Marla and find out about the pregnancy and its cover-up.  In the game, when Dottie gets onto first, Jimmy stands there trying to talk to her, but she's pissed off about the kiss, so it's a very tense conversation between plays that distracts her from seeing Racine has subbed Marla in at second base (or that the players in the dugout are trying to alert her to that fact).  With the next hit, Dottie takes off extra hard because she's so emotional and wants the hell away from Jimmy, and by the time she registers that it's Marla on second, it's too late to avoid mowing her down.  Marla is okay, but Dottie feels like shit and everyone is upset with her.

That's why she's crying alone in her room when Bob makes his surprise return.

But with the kiss cut (because Penny Marshall was pissed test audiences were rooting for a Dottie/Jimmy pairing, so she didn't want to give them that fuel), that game scene had to go, too -- if the kiss didn't happen, the conversation on first can't happen, and without that, there's no reason she'd fail to notice Marla or take off running with such unnecessary intensity.

So the film winds up going right from Betty Spaghetti learning about George's death to Dottie crying in her room, and the context for the tears completely changes, to being about Bob instead, something that forever drove Penny Marshall crazy about her own movie.

[Katy M]

On 5/29/2020 at 5:57 PM, Bastet said:

In the script and original cut of the film, she came back - but playing for Racine - but the scene revealing that got cut because the Jimmy/Dottie kiss got cut.

Marla was pregnant, but couldn't let the coach know or she'd get kicked off the team and she and Nelson needed the money (which, yes, begs the question why she quit mid-season in the first place).  She fakes a back injury so she doesn't get put in much to begin with, and then the players - who all know she's pregnant - finagle things when she is on the field so that she only has to make simple plays.

When the Peaches are warming up to play the Belles, they're reunited with Marla and find out about the pregnancy and its cover-up.  In the game, when Dottie gets onto first, Jimmy stands there trying to talk to her, but she's pissed off about the kiss, so it's a very tense conversation between plays that distracts her from seeing Racine has subbed Marla in at second base (or that the players in the dugout are trying to alert her to that fact).  With the next hit, Dottie takes off extra hard because she's so emotional and wants the hell away from Jimmy, and by the time she registers that it's Marla on second, it's too late to avoid mowing her down.  Marla is okay, but Dottie feels like shit and everyone is upset with her.

That's why she's crying alone in her room when Bob makes his surprise return.

But with the kiss cut (because Penny Marshall was pissed test audiences were rooting for a Dottie/Jimmy pairing, so she didn't want to give them that fuel), that game scene had to go, too -- if the kiss didn't happen, the conversation on first can't happen, and without that, there's no reason she'd fail to notice Marla or take off running with such unnecessary intensity.

So the film winds up going right from Betty Spaghetti learning about George's death to Dottie crying in her room, and the context for the tears completely changes, to being about Bob instead, something that forever drove Penny Marshall crazy about her own movie.

I'm glad that they cut the Marla pregnancy thing.  Having all the teams basically cheat to cover for Marla was stupid.  Dottie crying because George died and she thought it might be Bob was perfectly realistic.  And, we didn't need Dottie kissing Jimmy when she's supposed to be happily married to Bob.  Why ruin a perfectly good movie with unnecessary infidelity?

And maybe it doesn't make a lot of sense for Marla to get married and quit mid-season, but the nonsensicalness wouldn't go away just because she came back whilst pregnant.  Marla didn't think she would ever find love and she did and she wanted to hurry up and get on with her life.  Or she did get pregnant and it was a shotgun wedding.

[Scarlett45]

If anyone wants to see a real life player in the women’s baseball league talk about her life, check out “A Secret Love” on Netflix. 

[Bastet]

 

On 6/2/2020 at 10:49 AM, Katy M said:

Dottie crying because George died and she thought it might be Bob was perfectly realistic.

Sure, it works, but I agree with Penny Marshall that it was more interesting when it was about her guilt and feeling ostracized by her teammates than when she's boohooing about Bob.

It also puts Dottie's decision to leave her team, especially at such a crucial time, in a context that at least makes some sense.  In the final cut, she's just like Marla - quitting because of a husband. 

The good thing about all the stuff about Dottie's marriage being cut is that the Bob who remains is a blank slate - all we really know about him is he fully supports Dottie's decision to return to the team and see the season out.

But in the original cut, we learn they dated for five years and then abruptly got married the night before he shipped out.  There was more to the conversation between Kit and Dottie back on the farm about going with Mr. Capadino to the try-outs:  As Kit is trying to persuade her, she says Dottie can't be all that thrilled with life, either, and Dottie says she's only sad that Bob is gone, because if he was home they'd be starting a family.  Kit points out she could have married him five years ago and have all kinds of family by now, and Dottie protests she just wanted to be sure -- that's when Kit makes fun of her last-second wedding, married by a preacher in pajamas, with their dad standing there saying, "One down ..." 

Bob being a dud Dottie married because she was supposed to and remained unsure about would have played true for me, because Bill Pullman comes across to me as a dud in every role he plays.  But I like that the backstory is gone, so that instead their marriage is just something that exists.  We, not knowing anything about it, take it at face value and assume she happily wants to be married to and have kids with Bob, which means it's not sad that she only played that one season despite being one of the best players in the league.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Bastet

[Crs97]

I remember being worried when Dottie and Jimmy got closer and Bob came home with a wounded foot that we would find out Bob was a secret coward who shot himself to get out of fighting.  That would have ruined the movie for me more than Dottie dropping the ball.  I liked Bob and their marriage.

[ruby24]

I think having Dottie be unsure about their marriage from the beginning and then kissing Jimmy would not have let the ending that we ended up getting be very satisfying, because it would have seemed like she was ultimately settling for this guy she was never sure of and didn't pursue other avenues in her life that she secretly wanted.

I actually prefer it as it is, because I read it as Dottie being a more typical 1940's woman who, even though she actually is passionate about baseball and playing, simply didn't see herself as someone who was going to have a life that was meant to be any different from most women of that era, and not reaching for it because it just wasn't expected of her. She loves Bob, she wants a family and she doesn't consider doing something different with her life outside the war. And I can believe there were many women of that era, especially around her age who were that way, despite hidden or buried talents and passions. A lot of them were asked to step up in different ways during the war and then asked to go right back to being homemakers after the war was over- I'm sure there were women who were resentful of it and others who didn't question it because this was as society was structured at that time. Perhaps in retrospect years later they might look back on it and realize, as Dottie does, what could have been different.

Having all that other stuff in the movie makes it very explicit that she's suffering and repressing who she is and regretting every choice she's making in the moment and that would have made the ending much more depressing overall. As it is, it's more bittersweet, because it's all in her memories of it.

Edited June 6, 2020 by ruby24

[Katy M]

5 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I think having Dottie be unsure about their marriage from the beginning and then kissing Jimmy would not have let the ending that we ended up getting be very satisfying, because it would have seemed like she was ultimately settling for this guy she was never sure of and didn't pursue other avenues in her life that she secretly wanted.

I actually prefer it as it is, because I read it as Dottie being a more typical 1940's woman who, even though she actually is passionate about baseball and playing, simply didn't see herself as someone who was going to have a life that was meant to be any different from most women of that era, and not reaching for it because it just wasn't expected of her. She loves Bob, she wants a family and she doesn't consider doing something different with her life outside the war. And I can believe there were many women of that era, especially around her age who were that way, despite hidden or buried talents and passions. A lot of them were asked to step up in different ways during the war and then asked to go right back to being homemakers after the war was over- I'm sure there were women who were resentful of it and others who didn't question it because this was as society was structured at that time. Perhaps in retrospect years later they might look back on it and realize, as Dottie does, what could have been different.

Having all that other stuff in the movie makes it very explicit that she's suffering and repressing who she is and regretting every choice she's making in the moment and that would have made the ending much more depressing overall. As it is, it's more bittersweet, because it's all in her memories of it.

I agree. The way the movie is now, it's a happy ending.  Dottie had her adventure and then went back to start her life with the love of her life.  Who wants to think of her living a life of regret that she quit the team and didn't run off with Jimmy?  

I stand by my position that this was a movie about women, their relationships with each other and being able to break out of the homemaker mold, even if just a little.  We didn't need an affair or an unhappy marriage (besides Evelyn's) to muddy the waters on my favorite feel-good movie of all time.

[Bastet]

Just to be clear, there was never going to be an affair.  There was only ever that kiss (which he initiated), which freaked Dottie out, and really wasn't even about Jimmy for her, it was just another example of her questioning her life.

Penny Marshall got really annoyed with test audiences actually rooting for Dottie to wind up with Jimmy (like it was easy for a woman in the '40s to get divorced even if she wanted to), and it was just too much story for a movie that was already quite long anyway, so it was all left on the cutting room floor.

And, while I share her frustration with the changed context of the crying scene, I think overall the movie is much better for losing the Dottie/Bob backstory.  For the obvious ways it makes Dottie's story happier, and also that in so doing, it makes Evelyn's story all the more important.  When Stillwell says he had to come, because she always said playing in the league was the best time she ever had in her whole life (a scene that made Marshall cry whenever she watched it), it's a gut punch reminder of her situation, and that she had no realistic way out of it.  It's the perfect touch of bittersweet in the midst of the celebration.  But if the main character was also stuck in her life because she was a woman of her time, meaning something that had been sporadically explored throughout the film, Evelyn's story wouldn't have that same impact.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Bastet

[GaT]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

Just to be clear, there was never going to be an affair.  There was only ever that kiss (which he initiated), which freaked Dottie out, and really wasn't even about Jimmy for her, it was just another example of her questioning her life.

Penny Marshall got really annoyed with test audiences actually rooting for Dottie to wind up with Jimmy (like it was easy for a woman in the '40s to get divorced even if she wanted to), and it was just too much story for a movie that was already quite long anyway, so it was all left on the cutting room floor.

And, while I share her frustration with the changed context of the crying scene, I think overall the movie is much better for losing the Dottie/Bob backstory.  For the obvious ways it makes Dottie's story happier, and also that in so doing, it makes Evelyn's story all the more important.  When Stillwell says he had to come, because she always said playing in the league was the best time she ever had in her whole life, it's a gut punch reminder of her situation, and that she had no realistic way out of it.  It's the perfect touch of bittersweet in the midst of the celebration.  But if the main character was also stuck in her life because she was a woman of her time, something that had been sporadically explored throughout the film, Evelyn's story wouldn't have that same impact.

I think that having Dottie cheat on her husband who was off fighting for our freedom would have changed her whole character, & not for the better.

[Mabinogia]

I am glad Penny canned the kiss, even if it wasn't mean to be romantic, I am glad that the movie was about these women and not about their love lives. Having any of the main cast hook up even just an awkward kiss was just completely unnecessary. 

For me the movie is perfect just as it is. 

[ClassicShowsFan]

The movie will be on tomorrow at 2:45 PM and Wednesday at 11:00 AM on IFC.

[ClassicShowsFan]

And also, BBC America will be showing the movie on Friday at 8:00 PM and Sundance will be airing it on Saturday at 5:00 PM.

[txhorns79]

On 3/19/2020 at 12:31 AM, Bastet said:

 

And since it relates to Marla, I'll go ahead and say for the umpteenth time that the scene at the train station between Marla and her dad is perfect.  Penny Marshall, who saw it untold number of times during filming and editing, teared up every time.  So it's no wonder I do the same every time I watch it.

Is that where Capadino makes the comment explaining to Marla that the train moves and not the station?  Lovitz was so good in that movie.

I always kind of hated the ending where Dottie is at the Hall of Fame alone, but Kit shows up with like a thousand family members.  I would have liked to see some balance between the two.

[Bastet]

4 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I always kind of hated the ending where Dottie is at the Hall of Fame alone, but Kit shows up with like a thousand family members.  I would have liked to see some balance between the two.

Well, Dottie didn't even want to go herself; she wasn't going to invite the whole family along or even say yes if the daughter suggested it.  Dottie only played for one year, despite being one of the league's best players, because she was always afraid to drift too far from the safe, familiar, traditional path (something Penny Marshall noted in her commentary).  She never truly acknowledged what it all meant (like her daughter said), so she has mixed emotions about revisiting it.

But Kit presumably played for quite some time; unlike Dottie, who says she was never really part of it, for Kit the league was a tremendously important part of her life (it was her ticket out of a life she didn't want) and something about which she only has positive feelings.  She'd be jazzed to come, and leap at the chance to share it with her family.

[xaxat]

 

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, xaxat said:

 

Oh, their so cute!

[Dejana]

 

Quote

"In the '90s, I auditioned for a movie [called] A League of Their Own in Chicago," she said of the 1992 film about an all-female baseball league.

Directed by Penny Marshall and starring Tom Hanks, Geena Davis and others, the role Lynch sought ended up going to Rosie O'Donnell.

"Rosie O'Donnell ended up getting the part, but I auditioned," Lynch said of the role of a woman on the team. "I had to play baseball and the whole thing."

"I didn't get it. It was heartbreaking," Lynch admitted.

 

I loved Rosie in the role and her real-life rapport with Madonna really showed, but I think Jane would have worked as well.

[Bastet]

Most probably already know this trivia, but just in case:  O'Donnell auditioned for Marla, but Megan Cavanagh was just so perfect the role had to go to her.  Marshall still wanted O'Donnell in the film, though, so she changed the Doris role to be better suited to her.

[EarlGreyTea]

So I re-watched the movie last night. For my money, one of the most poignant lines comes from Mr. Harvey: "You're a young man, Jimmy. You still could be playing. If you just woulda laid off the booze." Garry Marshall delivered it with such perfect notes of regret and disappointment. Hanks' very brief look of shame was a nice rejoinder. I've always felt we are our own worst enemies sometimes.

Did that article shown in the HOF scene with Jimmy's dates of birth and death mention anything about his post-AAGPBL life? I wonder if he remarried or what.

Edited April 20, 2021 by EarlGreyTea

[susannah]

This is one of my most favorite movies ever, and the posts here are quite interesting. To throw my 0.2 in on the couple of points I have with the film...I think Kit should have been fouled out at the end of the game. It is apparently illegal to deliberately run over a baseman and she plowed into Dottie head on. The other thing was about Evelyn. I didn't know how she made it into the league since she seemed to be incompetent, and also, I didn't think that if her husband was as controlling and possibly abusive as she implied, that he would ever have let her just take off to do what she wanted to do, even if she took the little cretin with her. Did anyone else think it a bit weird that a school age boy would be hanging out in the dressing room with the women while they changed?

One of the most powerful scenes in the film was when the black woman threw the ball to Dottie, and the look they exchanged. Of course it was beyond shameful that they both knew that she couldn't and wouldn't be asked to join the league, in the early 40s. As I see it, though, it was the same as lesbians not being included in the beginning of women's rights movements. To make any societal progress of change, they had to lead with the least "controversial" to those fragile male psyches, or no one would have gotten anywhere.