A League of Their Own (1992): Women, Baseball, and that Darn Ending...

[Spartan Girl]

On August 2, 2018 at 11:30 AM, andromeda331 said:

I liked that part too. It was nice that she loved her husband and didn't leave him for Jimmy like you'd expect. 

Like I said before, I never got the feeling there was anything between Jimmy and Dottie except a grudging mutual respect. Plus, Jimmy as a love interest? No, no, no, never, not with a thousand condoms.

[scarynikki12]

3 hours ago, festivus said:

That line was the one thing I didn't think was funny in the movie. Jimmy was apathetic at times or cranky but that line was just straight up mean and I didn't think he was mean. I didn't like it.

He did start to redeem himself later that night by taking care of her when she was vomiting up the poison Mae slipped her.  He still had his snark but he sat with her, was probably the one who called the doctor (or told one of the Peaches who didn't go out to do it), and made sure she puked into the bucket/washbin.  His insult deserved an apology but, since one wasn't going to happen, I can imagine Miss Cuthbert choosing to remember the man who took care of her when she was sick rather than the one who woke up drunk and spewing insults. 

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

He did start to redeem himself later that night by taking care of her when she was vomiting up the poison Mae slipped her.  He still had his snark but he sat with her, was probably the one who called the doctor (or told one of the Peaches who didn't go out to do it), and made sure she puked into the bucket/washbin.  His insult deserved an apology but, since one wasn't going to happen, I can imagine Miss Cuthbert choosing to remember the man who took care of her when she was sick rather than the one who woke up drunk and spewing insults. 

He really did. It is surprising you'd think he'd be the last person who would take care of her. He seems like he would have gone off to get drunk as soon as they arrived at their destination. 

[HunterHunted]

On 9/9/2018 at 8:48 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Like I said before, I never got the feeling there was anything between Jimmy and Dottie except a grudging mutual respect. Plus, Jimmy as a love interest? No, no, no, never, not with a thousand condoms.

A romance between the two was planned, but ultimately scrapped.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/56212/25-fun-facts-about-league-their-own

[Mabinogia]

I'm glad they scrapped it. It was unnecessary to the story. I like that this movie focused on female friendship and not romance.

[Bastet]

This just ended on TV right now, so of course I had to watch part of it yet again, and: Forget the damn ball (no, it wasn't on purpose), my longstanding question has always been why the hell present-day Marla gives Mr. Capadino (Jon Lovitz's character) a kiss on the cheek and calls him "honey" when they're looking at the tryout day picture and she says, "That's the day you changed my life."  He was a total jerk.  I find it hard to believe he reformed somewhere along the way and they got back in touch so that she instantly recognizes him and is friendly with him.

It also always strikes me that the actor playing present-day Marla is mixed in among the real-life players watching the game.

[Constant Viewer]

On 10/17/2018 at 10:02 PM, Bastet said:

This just ended on TV right now, so of course I had to watch part of it yet again, and: Forget the damn ball (no, it wasn't on purpose), my longstanding question has always been why the hell present-day Marla gives Mr. Capadino (Jon Lovitz's character) a kiss on the cheek and calls him "honey" when they're looking at the tryout day picture and she says, "That's the day you changed my life."  He was a total jerk.  I find it hard to believe he reformed somewhere along the way and they got back in touch so that she instantly recognizes him and is friendly with him

That was Marla? I thought it was some random character, especially since she calls him honey and Marla married Nelson.

[Bastet]

4 minutes ago, Constant Viewer said:

That was Marla? I thought it was some random character, especially since she calls him honey and Marla married Nelson.

It's either Marla or someone with the same hairdo, earrings, body shape, and voice.

[Constant Viewer]

I guess you're right. It is weird that she would be so friendly with him, but I guess she was overcome with nostalgia

[Bastet]

It's so weird.  It would have been better for her to see him in front the pictures, recognize him and say, "Mr. Capadino," then while he's looking at her trying to figure out who she is, she points to a tryout day picture of her and says, "That's the day you changed my life."  And as he's realizing it's the young woman he treated like shit standing before him confident and attractive, she zings him a little - nothing Mae or Doris like, still Marla, but something that ribs him - and walks on.  He turns to watch her walk away, and we get that same shot of him with the cigar in his mouth in front of the picture of his younger self with the cigar. 

[Scarlett45]

On 9/8/2018 at 11:31 PM, Giuseppe said:

Edit: Now that I think about it, how old WERE most of the girls supposed to be when the league formed? Geena Davis was mid-30s when the movie was made, and Lori Petty about 8 years younger, but that seems a bit old to be recruited for a sports career. Were the characters supposed to be a lot younger?

I think the actresses were certainly playing younger. Geena’s character was likely in her mid 20s(24-27) with Lori Petty being under 21. 

[Giuseppe]

On 10/17/2018 at 11:02 PM, Bastet said:

This just ended on TV right now, so of course I had to watch part of it yet again, and: Forget the damn ball (no, it wasn't on purpose), my longstanding question has always been why the hell present-day Marla gives Mr. Capadino (Jon Lovitz's character) a kiss on the cheek and calls him "honey" when they're looking at the tryout day picture and she says, "That's the day you changed my life."  He was a total jerk.  I find it hard to believe he reformed somewhere along the way and they got back in touch so that she instantly recognizes him and is friendly with him.

It also always strikes me that the actor playing present-day Marla is mixed in among the real-life players watching the game.

That never bothered me, really. He eventually did relent (reluctantly) and let her tryout, and if she hadn't made the team, she'd never have gotten the makeover and met Nelson and gotten married, so I can see her feeling grateful to him for all of that despite that first meeting. Who knows, they may have even become friendly towards one another over the years. Marla didn't seem like the type to hold a grudge. Also, I thought the actress playing older Marla was actually a member of the real AAGPBL, and that's why she was included with the other real players. Could be wrong...I probably just assumed it.

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, Giuseppe said:

Also, I thought the actress playing older Marla was actually a member of the real AAGPBL, and that's why she was included with the other real players. Could be wrong...I probably just assumed it.

I looked her up when I first noticed her mixed in with them, to see if that was the case, and there's no information to that effect.  That's the kind of trivia that would make its way out there.  And she only watched, didn't play.  Plus, she looks too young.  The actor (Patricia Wilson) may have just wanted to hang out for at least part of the day of shooting the game.

3 hours ago, Giuseppe said:

He eventually did relent (reluctantly) and let her tryout, and if she hadn't made the team, she'd never have gotten the makeover and met Nelson and gotten married, so I can see her feeling grateful to him for all of that despite that first meeting.

Oh, I can see her - especially in the emotion of that moment, having just had the ribbon cut - just being about the fact that day wound up changing everything about her life for the better.  He's not worth her having continued to think about the way he treated her!  But for her to not just recognize him but already know who he is, call him "Honey," and kiss him on the cheek suggests an existing friendship of sorts rather than someone she saw a few more times over the years the league existed when he brought some new scouts to the team.  That's the part that doesn't work for me.  I'd like it a lot better if present-day Marla was a surprise to him that day.  (And there's no way that guy changed enough anyone would want him in her life - when you're that big an asshole to every single person you encounter at that age, you're just a congenital asshole and will be for life.  Stillwell had plenty of time to change.  Mr. Capadino was already who he is.)

Speaking of Stillwell, the other thing I always think about at the end is how sucky Evelyn's life probably was.  Her husband likely didn't change, either, so after the league folded, she probably worked a series of crappy jobs (at which she was patronized, certainly, and harassed, probably) to support the family, staying married to the jerk because divorce just wasn't proper then, and all she really had that made her happy was her son and memories of the best time of her life.  I wish she'd lived to be part of the Hall of Fame reunion.  Stillwell's bittersweet smile when he gets his picture taken by the cutout of his mom is the perfect visual of how I feel about Evelyn's story.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Bastet

[andromeda331]

On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 12:04 PM, Bastet said:

Speaking of Stillwell, the other thing I always think about at the end is how sucky Evelyn's life probably was.  Her husband likely didn't change, either, so after the league folded, she probably worked a series of crappy jobs (at which she was patronized, certainly, and harassed, probably) to support the family, staying married to the jerk because divorce just wasn't proper then, and all she really had that made her happy was her son and memories of the best time of her life.  I wish she'd lived to be part of the Hall of Fame reunion.  Stillwell's bittersweet smile when he gets his picture taken by the cutout of his mom is the perfect visual of how I feel about Evelyn's story.

So do I. I really wish it had been different that things got better for her. But also realistic. The league changed a lot of women's lives Marla, Doris, Frances, and Kit. It probably didn't change others. Dottie's life didn't really change. She returned home with her husband. And it didn't for Evelyn either unlike Dottie had a crappy husband. Its unfortunately very realistic. But I still hate it every time Stillwell says that was the happiest time in her life. That is just so sad. I keep wishing she ditched her crappy husband and went onto have a great life while raising her son. 

[Spartan Girl]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

So do I. I really wish it had been different that things got better for her. But also realistic. The league changed a lot of women's lives Marla, Doris, Frances, and Kit. It probably didn't change others. Dottie's life didn't really change. She returned home with her husband. And it didn't for Evelyn either unlike Dottie had a crappy husband. Its unfortunately very realistic. But I still hate it every time Stillwell says that was the happiest time in her life. That is just so sad. I keep wishing she ditched her crappy husband and went onto have a great life while raising her son. 

Yeah, but at least Stillwell turned out to be a good guy.  I know he was a brat back then, but if you have that kind of absent/jerk dad with combined with an well-meaning yet overly indulgent mother, what can you expect? 

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah, but at least Stillwell turned out to be a good guy.  I know he was a brat back then, but if you have that kind of absent/jerk dad with combined with an well-meaning yet overly indulgent mother, what can you expect? 

That's true and kind of lucky that child Stillwell wasn't worse. But yes Stillwell turned out well and that was all Evelyn. To have her son turn out so well probably made her very happy.

[Bastet]

On 10/21/2018 at 11:04 AM, Bastet said:

But for her to not just recognize him but already know who he is, call him "Honey," and kiss him on the cheek suggests an existing friendship of sorts rather than someone she saw a few more times over the years the league existed when he brought some new scouts to the team.  That's the part that doesn't work for me. 

Quoting myself to say this being on again tonight reminded me of the thing I knew I wanted to include in that post but couldn't remember -- in addition to the Marla/Mr. Capadino familiarities I listed as constituting my objection to their modern-day relationship, there's another one: the fact they walk in together - past the cut ribbon to the newly-opened exhibit - holding hands.  She says her line, walks away, and we get the cigar shot.  She's not hanging with him.  Add that to her earlier conversation with Dottie about how's Nelson (the enthusiastic, "He's good; our son runs the business now"), and there's no ambiguous craziness about Marla now being with the asshole, and there are easy explanations as to why Nelson is not with her as she walks in, or even there at all; the Marla/Mr. Capadino relationship is one of friendship, but I return to WTF? of it reaching the point of her walking into the exhibit hand in hand with Mr. Capadino, calling him Honey, and kissing him on the cheek, based on their origin, the limited contact they'd have had while the league existed, and the fact he was almost certainly a fucking asshole that whole time.

While I'm kvetching about something I otherwise love, I hate the "... and that darn ending" aspect of this thread title, because the end of the World Series (which is the source of the "did she drop the ball on purpose?" debate [she didn't] that to this day overshadows the film in some circles) isn't the end of the movie -- the film ends with the unambiguously (except what the hell Marla sees in Mr. Capadino, heh) wonderful reunion at the Hall of Fame and the baseball game played by real-life League members rather than actors.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Bastet

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

"did she drop the ball on purpose?" debate [she didn't]

If anyone is still questioning this, I recommend watching that scene without sound, as I did one day. Keep close attention to Dottie's expressions. The camera keeps panning between Dottie, who is standing there (more towards the first base line) watching the ball being played in the field and Kitt rounding the bases. At one point Dottie looks towards Kitt and her eyes widen a bit. There is an actual point where she has an almost "Oh crap" look on her face when she realizes the play was coming home. Dottie was never truly set to receive Kitt's aggressive charge to the plate.

[festivus]

This movie was on BBC America last night (Why BBCA shows a movie so American is weird but whatever) and of course I had to watch it for the umpteenth time. Now I can't stand Kit but I noticed something last night that was new to me and made me look at her a little bit better. When Kit and Dottie and Jon Lovitz are checking out Marla, and he doesn't want to take her because she's not pretty, Kit drops her suitcase at the same time Dottie does like she'll refuse to go if he doesn't take Marla. It was a nice little moment because we all know how badly she wanted to go and I don't think I registered it before. I still can't stand the whiny brat but at least there was that.

[Katy M]

44 minutes ago, festivus said:

This movie was on BBC America

I'm not sure why, but I thought this said this movie was banned on BBC America.  And I was like why????  I need to learn to stop imagining words that aren't in sentences.

[Dr.OO7]

8 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

If anyone is still questioning this, I recommend watching that scene without sound, as I did one day. Keep close attention to Dottie's expressions. The camera keeps panning between Dottie, who is standing there (more towards the first base line) watching the ball being played in the field and Kitt rounding the bases. At one point Dottie looks towards Kitt and her eyes widen a bit. There is an actual point where she has an almost "Oh crap" look on her face when she realizes the play was coming home. Dottie was never truly set to receive Kitt's aggressive charge to the plate.

I agree. She looks downright terrified when she realizes Kit isn't stopping.

1 hour ago, festivus said:

This movie was on BBC America last night (Why BBCA shows a movie so American is weird but whatever) and of course I had to watch it for the umpteenth time. Now I can't stand Kit but I noticed something last night that was new to me and made me look at her a little bit better. When Kit and Dottie and Jon Lovitz are checking out Marla, and he doesn't want to take her because she's not pretty, Kit drops her suitcase at the same time Dottie does like she'll refuse to go if he doesn't take Marla. It was a nice little moment because we all know how badly she wanted to go and I don't think I registered it before. I still can't stand the whiny brat but at least there was that.

I just loved that they were both willing to instantly stick up for a girl they didn't even know.

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, festivus said:

It was a nice little moment because we all know how badly she wanted to go and I don't think I registered it before. I still can't stand the whiny brat but at least there was that.

That's a good point that I never truly registered, either (but, yes, still can't stand the big baby).  I mean, I always liked that scene, that Dottie and Kit wouldn't go without Marla, not because she's a friend or even someone they know, but because she's a woman who is being treated unfairly.  But I never thought about that being an even greater move from Kit, who saw this opportunity as her one chance to get off her parents' farm and who was only taken because Dottie agreed to come too, and that Kit doesn't follow her sister's lead in doing so, they both do it at the same time; for both, the sisterhood is their natural instinct.  And for Kit, it's an instinct even stronger than self-preservation.  She's a whiny twit, but props for that!  And props to you for pointing that out, as now I'll enjoy the scene even more.

[festivus]

22 minutes ago, Bastet said:

And for Kit, it's an instinct even stronger than self-preservation.  She's a whiny twit, but props for that!  And props to you for pointing that out, as now I'll enjoy the scene even more.

Yeah, I will too. It gives you hope that there's a good person in there just waiting to come out once she grows up and hopefully gets over her insecurities.

[Bastet]

On 10/26/2018 at 1:48 PM, festivus said:

It gives you hope that there's a good person in there just waiting to come out once she grows up and hopefully gets over her insecurities.

That's another thing I always tell myself, to try not to hate Kit quite as much as I do -- Lori Petty was almost 30, but Kit is - based on the average age at marriage then and the fact she's the younger sister - much younger.  This league is the first professional experience she's ever had (she's been a teammate, yes, but for fun, not for stakes).  She's never had a job outside her parents' farm.  It will never not be annoying that she melts down into prolonged sobs in the fucking dugout, or even more tiresome that she can't accept the simple fact that, for almost all of us, there is someone out there better than we are at any given skill.

But she was smart enough to want the hell out of the life she was born into, and to want to do something for herself before settling down - she doesn't just stay in the league, she stays in Racine during the off-season to get a job and hang out/probably live with some of her teammates rather than heading back where "I'm nothing here."   She bugs throughout the movie for being so immature, whiny, insecure, and just all-around fucking exasperating, but she does have time to grow the hell up and we leave her in a time/place where we can see that's possible.

I cannot believe I just wrote an entire post sympathetic to Kit.

[Browncoat]

Dottie does have the "Oh shit, Kit's not slowing down" look as Kit barrels down the baseline toward her, but when Kit's teammates are carrying her off the field, Dottie just has this look on her face of joy about Kit's win.  And Dottie kind of hides that look from Jimmy, and tries to look less happy.  Dottie did not appear in the least bit to be upset about losing.  Which is part of what makes the whole "did she drop the ball on purpose" thing so ambiguous.  Had it been any other character catching for that game, there would have been zero ambiguity.

I remain on the fence, and can still see it both ways.  I kind of dig the ambiguity -- gives us something to think about.  :)

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, Browncoat said:

Dottie does have the "Oh shit, Kit's not slowing down" look as Kit barrels down the baseline toward her, but when Kit's teammates are carrying her off the field, Dottie just has this look on her face of joy about Kit's win.  And Dottie kind of hides that look from Jimmy, and tries to look less happy.  Dottie did not appear in the least bit to be upset about losing.  Which is part of what makes the whole "did she drop the ball on purpose" thing so ambiguous.  Had it been any other character catching for that game, there would have been zero ambiguity.

She could just be happy for Kit, knowing winning this meant more to her than it would have ever done for her.

[Browncoat]

17 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

She could just be happy for Kit, knowing winning this meant more to her than it would have ever done for her.

That is certainly a possibility.  And it's a possibility that Dottie dropped the ball on purpose, knowing winning this meant more to Kit than it would ever have done for her, and thus was happy for Kit.  As I said, I can easily see it both ways.  I watched the movie today, and really tried to pay attention and come to a concrete conclusion, and I just can't quite convince myself either way.  <shrug>  It's an interesting dilemma, and I enjoy all the debate.

[VCRTracking]

I have to say even though he's playing an asshole, I love Jon Lovitz in the movie.  He and Phil Hartman were so great playing characters from the 30s and 40s. Any time they play a character with a thin mustache and speaking with that fast talking old Hollywood movie accent I'm happy!

[Inquisitionist]

2 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

He and Phil Hartman were so great playing characters from the 30s and 40s.

ACTing!

[tribeca]

On 10/28/2018 at 3:39 PM, Bastet said:

That's another thing I always tell myself, to try not to hate Kit quite as much as I do -- Lori Petty was almost 30, but Kit is - based on the average age at marriage then and the fact she's the younger sister - much younger.  This league is the first professional experience she's ever had (she's been a teammate, yes, but for fun, not for stakes).  She's never had a job outside her parents' farm.  It will never not be annoying that she melts down into prolonged sobs in the fucking dugout, or even more tiresome that she can't accept the simple fact that, for almost all of us, there is someone out there better than we are at any given skill.

But she was smart enough to want the hell out of the life she was born into, and to want to do something for herself before settling down - she doesn't just stay in the league, she stays in Racine during the off-season to get a job and hang out/probably live with some of her teammates rather than heading back where "I'm nothing here."   She bugs throughout the movie for being so immature, whiny, insecure, and just all-around fucking exasperating, but she does have time to grow the hell up and we leave her in a time/place where we can see that's possible.

I cannot believe I just wrote an entire post sympathetic to Kit.

I always felt bad for Kit.  I have that perfect sister who can do everything better and is prettier.  It is not a great feeling to be known as someone’s sister instead of your own identity.  Everyone hates Kit but I found that character the most real    

      Dottie left her teammates during the World Series    Kit definitely loved the game and wanted to win more than Dottie  

[Crs97]

Everything Kit was trying to escape, Dottie loved.   It wasn’t Dottie’s fault that Kit was miserabke, no matter how many times Kit tried to blame her for being the more talented sister who dared to be happy where she was.

[VCRTracking]

I think Kit just needed a Nellie Oleson-like rival to focus her hatred on, then she  would have gotten along with Dottie more!

Edited November 1, 2018 by VCRTracking

[tribeca]

Kit even tells Dottie she was mad and when Dottie says at me. Kit says yes why do you have to be so good and the look on her face she realizes how wrong that is.  The best thing that happened to Kit was being traded.  

I know I am in the minority but I never saw Kit has a bad person.  She handled the situation wrong.  She had flaws and personal I find those characters more interesting.  

[chitowngirl]

My take on why Dottie did not deliberately drop the ball-from the time that Kit rounded third and Dottie realized Kit was on her way home, Dottie had no time to ponder “Hey, I can make Kit the hero if I let the ball go”. Her reaction to the play is ingrained and instinct would be to block home plate and hold on to that ball at all costs.

[Lovecat]

On 10/29/2018 at 2:20 PM, VCRTracking said:

I have to say even though he's playing an asshole, I love Jon Lovitz in the movie.  He and Phil Hartman were so great playing characters from the 30s and 40s. Any time they play a character with a thin mustache and speaking with that fast talking old Hollywood movie accent I'm happy!

“See, how it works is, the train moves, not the station...” is one of the two quotes from this movie that I use all the damn time.  I know I’m in the presence of a kindred soul when they recognize it.  The other quote is, “Use your head! That’s that lump three feet above your ass!”  That one is usually mumbled to myself, unless I’m in the presence of one of the aforementioned kindred souls, who understand the context and won’t be offended.

[Inquisitionist]

"Yeah, I'm just going home, grab a shower and shave, give the wife a little pickle-tickle, and I'm on my way.  I'll see ya."

[VCRTracking]

RIP Penny Marshall.

[benteen]

RIP, Penny Marshall.

[Dr.OO7]

There's no crying in baseball.

[shoregirl]

10 minutes ago, Camille said:

There's no crying in baseball.

Maybe just today 😢 RIP Penny Marshall .

[Bastet]

As a toast (with milk and Pepsi?) to Penny Marshall's memory, I re-read this wonderful article by Katie Baker honoring the film on its 25th anniversary.  (It was posted here at the time.)  It really nails what's so enduring and special about about this movie.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Bastet

[VCRTracking]

[wilsie]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

As a toast (with milk and Pepsi?) to Penny Marshall's memory, I re-read this wonderful article by Katie Baker honoring the film on its 25th anniversary.  (It was posted here at the time.)  It really nails what's so enduring and special about about this movie.

Thank you for sharing this.  

[Inquisitionist]

On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 6:43 PM, Inquisitionist said:

"Yeah, I'm just going home, grab a shower and shave, give the wife a little pickle-tickle, and I'm on my way.  I'll see ya."

According to the article by Katie Baker linked above: 

Quote

Lovitz is in the movie for only a few minutes, but he has zero lines that aren’t instant classics. ("How it works is, the train moves, not the station" is my personal favorite.) His "pickle-tickle" line was ad-libbed.

On the day that we lost Penny Marshall, that little bit of info is making me smile.  RIP, Penny.

[andromeda331]

On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 1:32 PM, Bastet said:

As a toast (with milk and Pepsi?) to Penny Marshall's memory, I re-read this wonderful article by Katie Baker honoring the film on its 25th anniversary.  (It was posted here at the time.)  It really nails what's so enduring and special about about this movie.

Great article!

[Bastet]

I got the 25th anniversary Blu-Ray of this for Christmas, and I've just gotten started with the special features, but I am already even more enamored of Penny Marshall than before:

- She believes the opening credits are up to the director, so she decided to put all the main women before the title, and all of the men besides Tom Hanks got left for after

- I always assumed she went directly to her pals Lowell Ganz and Babaloo Mandel to write the script, but nope: She wanted it written by a woman, but the women she approached (she didn't say who) turned it down, so only then did she fall back on them

- It bugged her that (test) audiences wanted Dottie and Jimmy to get together - hello; it's 1943, and a woman can't easily divorce her husband - so she cut the kiss between them because it just fueled that fire

- It continued to drive her crazy that she goes from Betty Spaghetti finding out about George's death to Dottie crying in her room (when Bob comes in), but she had to delete the Dottie plows into a pregnant Marla scene*, so the proper context, that Dottie is crying over guilt, is inevitably lost.

* I watched the deleted scenes, and it turns out the reason that one had to go is because the kiss was deleted.  The set-up is that Marla had come back to the league, playing for Racine, because she and Nelson needed the money.  The coach and manager can't know she's pregnant, because they'll kick her off the team, but all the players know.  She tells the coach her back hurts, so he doesn't play her much, and then the players all do things to make it so she doesn't have to make any plays other than simple catches.  The Peaches find this out when they're getting ready to face Racine in a game, and see that Marla is back.

Dottie gets onto first, and Jimmy is trying to talk to her, but she's pissed off about the kiss.  They wind up having a tense conversation between plays, and this keeps her from not paying attention to the fact there's been a substitution on Racine and Marla is now on second, or paying attention to the players in the dugout attempting to alert her to that fact.  So when Doris gets a hit, Dottie takes off extra hard because of her emotions, and by the time she registers that it's Marla, it's too late, and she totally topples her. 

(So, if the kiss didn't happen, then the conversation between Jimmy and Dottie when she's on first can't happen, and with that gone, there's no way to explain why she doesn't see that Marla is in the game or why she runs like she does.) 

It makes her abandoning her teammates when Bob shows up a little more understandable - not just the guilt, but also the players were pissed off at her when she took out Marla.

[Crs97]

While it’s a little abrupt, I would rather jump to Dottie crying (which I just took as her finally being alone and releasing her own emotions after being so afraid Bob had died) than to have Dottie and Jimmy kiss.

[Bastet]

19 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

(which I just took as her finally being alone and releasing her own emotions after being so afraid Bob had died)

Yes, that's how it plays, and I liked learning that Marshall didn't like that, because it was more interesting to her when Dottie's emotions were about Marla, her teammates, and her guilt, and now she's just boo hooing about Bob.  I agree.  

But, yes, I am glad the kiss was cut, because even though it was never intended to go anywhere or be something the audience rooted for (it was about Dottie's feelings about her life and marriage, not about Jimmy), the Dottie/Jimmy thing is simply a distraction the film does not need.  So test audiences rooting for them to get together, and Marshall's annoyance with that, saved us.

[GaT]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

* I watched the deleted scenes, and it turns out the reason that one had to go is because the kiss was deleted.  The set-up is that Marla had come back to the league, playing for Racine, because she and Nelson needed the money.  The coach and manager can't know she's pregnant, because they'll kick her off the team, but all the players know.  She tells the coach her back hurts, so he doesn't play her much, and then the players all do things to make it so she doesn't have to make any plays other than simple catches.  The Peaches find this out when they're getting ready to face Racine in a game, and see that Marla is back.

Dottie gets onto first, and Jimmy is trying to talk to her, but she's pissed off about the kiss.  They wind up having a tense conversation between plays, and this keeps her from not paying attention to the fact there's been a substitution on Racine and Marla is now on second, or paying attention to the players in the dugout attempting to alert her to that fact.  So when Doris gets a hit, Dottie takes off extra hard because of her emotions, and by the time she registers that it's Marla, it's too late, and she totally topples her. 

(So, if the kiss didn't happen, then the conversation between Jimmy and Dottie when she's on first can't happen, and with that gone, there's no way to explain why she doesn't see that Marla is in the game or why she runs like she does.) 

It makes her abandoning her teammates when Bob shows up a little more understandable - not just the guilt, but also the players were pissed off at her when she took out Marla.

Wow, I had no idea this was the real backstory, very interesting.

53 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

which I just took as her finally being alone and releasing her own emotions after being so afraid Bob had died

This is exactly what I thought it was also.

[Bastet]

I'd seen it written here that there had originally been a scene with Dottie plowing into pregnant Marla and that being why she was crying, and I also knew there'd been a kiss cut, but it wasn't until seeing the deleted scenes that I learned they worked together.

I'd also heard about Dottie's backstory including that she and Bob dated for five years and then abruptly got married the night before he shipped out, and that's part of Kit and Dottie's extended conversation about whether they should go with Mr. Capadino and try out.  As Kit is trying to persuade her, she says Dottie can't be all that thrilled with life, either, and Dottie says she's just sad about Bob being gone; if he was home, they'd be starting a family.  Kit says she could have married him five years ago and have all kinds of family by now.  Dottie says she wanted to be sure, and Kit makes fun of her last-second wedding, married by a preacher who didn't even get out of his pajamas, with Dad standing there saying, "One down ..." 

There was also more to the scene outside the bus when Kit reveals they're going to the Suds Bucket and Mae is going to poison Miss Cuthbert's dinner.  Dottie asks to talk with Kit behind the bus (prompting everyone to tease "Kit's in trouble") and cautions her against hanging out with Mae, pointing out that she's "gone all the way."  Kit says so what, you've done it, and Dottie replies that she had to, then corrects herself that it's not had to, but supposed to.  So it's clear that Dottie only finally agreed to marry Bill because he was shipping out, not because she was independently finally sure after five years, and she's still dealing with some doubts.

Some other cuts:

The scene where Evelyn asks Jimmy if she can bring her son with her on the road was cut for time, there was originally more in the beginning -- he's passed on on the dugout bench, and she wakes him up.  First he walks out and does his wave the hat at the crowd thing, and she tells him no, he already did that.  Then he puts his hand over his heart and starts singing the national anthem, and she finally gets him coherent enough to understand that the game is over, and she just needs to ask him a question.

Originally, Jimmy was at The Suds Bucket, too.  He'd seen the women sneaking out while Miss Cuthbert puked, but obviously he could give a shit if they're breaking that particular rule, so he just wound up there drinking himself.  That guy who gives Kit a kiss on the cheek was originally trying to get her to go out to his truck with him, and bet her that she couldn't strike him out; if she couldn't, she had to go out to the truck with him.  She gets two strikes in a row, and then as she's gearing up for the third pitch, Mae encourages her to let him win - after all, what did she come here for?  So Kit is winding up to purposely miss, when Jimmy grabs her arm, and tells her maybe this is a decision that shouldn't be made after a pitcher of beer.  Then he looks at the guy (who is now shirtless) and says, then again, maybe it should and walks away.  Kit thinks about it briefly, and throws a perfect strike.

There was also a scene at the bar where he comes to Dottie's rescue -- remember how she's there with just a coat over her nightgown?  Well, she had Marla on her back as she dragged her off the stage, but Marla of course went down and took the coat with her.  In a cute move, Dottie isn't particularly concerned about standing there in a bar in her nightgown, but when Marla's dress rides up her thigh as she hits the ground, Dottie quickly pulls it back down.  But then Mr. Lowenstein enters the bar, so before he can spot Dottie, Jimmy knocks him out from behind with a bottle.  As he hoists him up over his shoulder, Dottie asks what Jimmy is going to tell him when he wakes up, and Jimmy says he'll just drop him off in bed with Miss Cuthbert, and that will keep him from ever mentioning it.  I'm glad that one got cut (she didn't say why, so it may have just been for time).

When they got to the house being used as Harvey Mansion, they found a hidden bar (it looks like cabinetry along the wall, then you hit a switch and the cabinetry opens to reveal a bar), and quickly sketched out and filmed a scene using it -- Mr. Harvey opens the bar and there's a bartender in there, too.  This guy just lives in the hidden bar until Mr. Harvey wants a drink.  There's some funny dialogue between the bartender and Jimmy, but I get the sense it was cut because the concept is all just a little too much, even for Mr. Harvey.

Interestingly, the story - from the Katie Baker article above - about Babe Ruth and a meat rocket that Lovitz objected to having cut because keeping it in would surely mean he'd get an award nomination (to which Marshall replied, "You’re in the film just enough") would have been the one moment in the film that Mr. Capadino came across as semi-human.  It's when he's leaving after dropping Dottie, Kit, and Marla off at tryouts and they're surprised he's not sticking around.  He turns back around and says, "Okay, I'll tell you a story" and then tells the story of being 18 years old and wanting to get into baseball more than anything.  Somehow he winds up in front of Babe Ruth at practice, and Babe Ruth says, "Hey, Kid, go get me a hot dog."  So young little Ernie is thrilled at runs off to do so.  Ruth sucks it down, and asks for another one.  Lather, rinse, repeat - Capadino spends all his time delivering hot dogs.  Then Babe Ruth starts choking, and Capadino kicks him in the back, dislodging this giant meat rocket.  Dottie asks what this has to do with them, and he leaves, with extended muttering about how it's about him, and Babe Ruth, and they ask about themselves. 

Anyway, the humanizing part is the look on his face when he remembers being that starry-eyed kid coming face to face with Babe Ruth.  And, heh, Marshall obviously remembered his consternation at having it cut, because her intro to that scene is basically, "Yes, Jon Lovitz is very funny.  Here's a scene of his that was cut."

There's also, before that, more of him insulting Marla; in the dining car on the train, she's wolfing down food, and he's making his usual snide comments.  It's pretty short, and Marla definitely does not come off well (better than him, of course, but still, it's too over the top in its representation of "her dad raised her like a boy," because she's really kind of gross, not just unaware of all the fancy schmancy table etiquette rules), so I think that one's better off on the cutting room floor.

There's a sweet scene when Marla receives a package from her dad containing a new glove; she gets misty, saying it must have cost him a week's pay.  Later we see her putting cash from her first payday into an envelope to send home.