Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[MadameKillerB]

Wishful thinking: Could these leaks be fake scenes? 

[joliefaire]

2 minutes ago, Fiver said:

Well, one of the leaks did say that Qyburn has his own agenda.  I'm intrigued by what that might be.

Jesus, lets hope its not using Cersei's dead body for experiments down in his dungeons!  eeeek....

[chrisvee]

1 minute ago, Fiver said:

Well, one of the leaks did say that Qyburn has his own agenda.  I'm intrigued by what that might be.

He’s studied a dead wight and he’s created the Mountain. I think he’s going all CotF to become/create the next NK. It would tie into Jon’s fate to rebuild the NW.

[Jewlmc]

Please just tell me that Cersei dies.....

What am I saying? Of course she does, because we must kill all the evil wommins!

[nikma]

Now it makes sense why they made that Dany and jon'a scene from E1 so happy. Almost like a Disney movie.

D&D are cruel trolls lol

[BooBear]

3 minutes ago, MadameKillerB said:

Wishful thinking: Could these leaks be fake scenes? 

I doubt it. Legit publications like Variety have confirmed that Episode 4 was mistakenly released this morning in Germany by mistake. The clips only went up about 3 hours ago. They are from the episode. 

[magdalene]

2 minutes ago, BooBear said:

I doubt it. Legit publications like Variety have confirmed that Episode 4 was mistakenly released this morning in Germany by mistake. The clips only went up about 3 hours ago. They are from the episode. 

I am glad to have confirmation of being legit - I hate being jerked around by trolls and foilers.

[Bannon]

The way this train is coming off the tracks, I'm going to be bitterly disappointed  that Arya and Gendry aren't getting down to KL via rowboat, Gendry on the oars, Arya going through a very, very, very, long list of potential baby names!

[nikma]

o 

Jon - broken forever
Tyrion - loses his entire family
Sansa and Arya - they already lost so much
Bran - lost personality
Jaime - dead
Brienne - lost Jaime
Cersei - dead
Daenerys - dead

Bittersweet LOOOOL

[Stallion12]

I'm still hoping some of it is wrong.

[Bannon]

14 minutes ago, nikma said:

Now it makes sense why they made that Dany and jon'a scene from E1 so happy. Almost like a Disney movie.

D&D are cruel trolls lol

That scene really was stupid, and out of place. Trolling and filling 5 minutes with CGI distraction nonsense is likely the best explanation for it.

[Morrigan2575]

I like the Cyclical aspect of this story. That it's happened before and will happen again.

My only hope is that Jon's Watch isn't permanent. That he goes back to the wall, gets the watch started and then retires in peace with his family.  I really want all the Starks together but, if not that's what fan fic is for. 

[ihavenoidea]

1 hour ago, Brn2bwild said:

If the spoilers are true, it makes me sick.  While Dany definitely has flaws, they are no worse than anyone else's, and I have been rooting for her all along to succeed and learn from her mistakes.  Her being killed for being justifiably angry is a fuck you to her and to much of the audience.

Oh, and fuck Tyrion and a giant fuck you to Bronn, a character who should have been killed or retired seasons ago. 

I lurk here mostly, but I had to come out of lurkdom to say I so agree with this, and everyone else.  We spent all those seasons rooting for Dany and seeing her grow, this is a huge bummer. I think I would have been fine with her dying even if I was sad, but not like this.  It would even be easier if we had see her gradually go mad for the last 3 seasons or so, but this feels out of nowhere and very plot based.  It's like a bad soap opera.  I love this show but I think this whole Dany thing will take it out of my top ten.  It just sucks.

Oh and I also agree on Bronn, I've  never liked him, he's way too dudebro.

[Oscirus]

10 minutes ago, BooBear said:

I doubt it. Legit publications like Variety have confirmed that Episode 4 was mistakenly released this morning in Germany by mistake. The clips only went up about 3 hours ago. They are from the episode. 

How many times are they gonna keep fucking these things up?

[BooBear]

Just now, Oscirus said:

How many times are they gonna keep fucking these things up?

Starting to wonder if it is being done on purpose. It is amazon again. Headed over to twitter where people are posting the scenes and the reaction is strongly negative. I am just glad I didn't see this at 10 PM and have to go to work tomorrow. 

[JennyMominFL]

27 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I like the Cyclical aspect of this story. That it's happened before and will happen again.

My only hope is that Jon's Watch isn't permanent. That he goes back to the wall, gets the watch started and then retires in peace with his family.  I really want all the Starks together but, if not that's what fan fic is for. 

Yeah, and Im just tired of absolute monarchs on the throne. Are some better than others ? Sure. Dany would be vastly better than Cersei, but Id really prefer neither, I never saw the quest to be an absolute monarch as heroic or good. Id rather there was no Iron Throne, so Dany needs to go too. Its seems to me in keeping with GRRM feelings about the little people vs big. 

I had to come back and add that, I dont hate Dany. She is gray as most characters. Im just opposed to the thone in theory and I dont think its good for Westeros. I need to see how it plays out before I make a judgement

Edited May 5, 2019 by JennyMominFL

[GraceK]

So isn’t this a repeat of Joffrey beheading Ned Stark? Are we supposed to see callback here?

[Couver]

I guess I'll just cling to the spoiler of Drogon taking his mom away from all this at the end as my bittersweet. And Ghost making it out of this mess as well.

The ruling council seems like straight up garbage though. The head of it has no empathy or human sentiment. Tyrion has suspect character....and I don't even know what to say about Bronn's inclusion? Davos is the only decent person on it and the only person who actually has been shown caring about the lives of the common people.

And not.a.single.woman on it? Not even Sansa who would be well suited to it. Or Yara? Brienne?

And it's weird that every major house is gone except the Baratheons with Gendry legitimized right at the end. I would think all the houses would be gone.

Disappointing. I'm not going to rage about it though. Some will like it some will hate it. This show was GOOD when it was good...and BAD when it was bad for me at least.

I'll be skipping the last three eps. Seeing Dany's hearbroken face when Viserion died was enough. I don't need to see a repeat with Rhaegal. It's not shocking or new at this point. And they really dropped the ball in building up Jon's Targ ancestry or any type of relationship with the dragon.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Couver

[Stallion12]

12 minutes ago, ihavenoidea said:

I lurk here mostly, but I had to come out of lurkdom to say I so agree with this, and everyone else.  We spent all those seasons rooting for Dany and seeing her grow, this is a huge bummer. I think I would have been fine with her dying even if I was sad, but not like this.  It would even be easier if we had see her gradually go mad for the last 3 seasons or so, but this feels out of nowhere and very plot based.  It's like a bad soap opera.  I love this show but I think this whole Dany thing will take it out of my top ten.  It just sucks.

Oh and I also agree on Bronn, I've  never liked him, he's way too dudebro.

Are we sure the council and bran thing is confirmed? I know episode 4 was leaked, but that doesn't mean everything in the summaries is correct.

[Edith]

1 hour ago, SilverStormm said:

Yes, that could be an explanation. For the record, I wasn't reaching, I was genuinely confused about it. You've provided a possible explanation, so thanks for that.

The reaching wasn't directed to you, for the record! That would be so rude, so apologies if that is way it came out.  

I remembered when those pictures came out, everybody at Freefolk started to said that, plus BSB leaks..

But the true is there was a wolf unit and a dragon unit, so in perspective makes sense.

[stagmania]

12 minutes ago, BooBear said:

Starting to wonder if it is being done on purpose. It is amazon again. Headed over to twitter where people are posting the scenes and the reaction is strongly negative. I am just glad I didn't see this at 10 PM and have to go to work tomorrow. 

Just peaked at twitter and whoo boy. “Dany should burn them all” appears to be the overwhelming sentiment. 

4 minutes ago, GraceK said:

So isn’t this a repeat of Joffrey beheading Ned Stark? Are we supposed to see callback here?

Definitely a deliberate callback, especially in the context of Dany trying to negotiate with Cersei in good faith. Cersei is the real Mad Queen here, but apparently the show doesn’t see it that way???

[Bannon]

I think I have a spinoff! Euron loses an arm in some fight, then comes upon Gendry and Arya, whereupon Gendry, not knowing who Euron is, asks if he needs help. Euron replies, "No, it is just a flesh wound!" As Gendry is shocked by the reply, Euron head butts him unconscious, and suddenly Arya forgets how to fight, as Euron kills her with terrorizing facial expressions. Euron, with Cersei defeated, flees to Essos. Arya's body is discovered, and everybody turns to Bran for insight as to who committed the crime. Bran, just coming out of the stupor from his opium den vacation that prevented him from helping out after the long night, gets confused, and names Gendry as the perp. Falsely convicted Gendry makes a break for it, gets to Essos, and wanders from town to town, getting caught up in the dramas of the locals, one step ahead of the law, talking about the mysterious one armed man who killed Arya!

I smell Emmys, baby!

[Stallion12]

1 minute ago, stagmania said:

Just peaked at twitter and whoo boy. “Dany should burn them all” appears to be the overwhelming sentiment. 

Definitely a deliberate callback, especially in the context of Dany trying to negotiate with Cersei in good faith. Cersei is the real Mad Queen here, but apparently the show doesn’t see it that way???

This also assumes everything else is correct. I'm not saying it'll be good or it's not. But we only have episode 4 confirmed, not 5 or 6 yet.

[BooBear]

1 minute ago, stagmania said:

Definitely a deliberate callback, especially in the context of Dany trying to negotiate with Cersei in good faith. Cersei is the real Mad Queen here, but apparently the show doesn’t see it that way???

Kind of ironic as Cersei wasn't in favor of killing Ned because she knew what a storm it would fire up.  Does Cersei want to die?  Well, I sincerely hope that Dany gives her what she wishes but D&D don't like kick ass women so she will be the "mad" queen. Kind of makes me angry, what business is Kings Landing of Jon's? Go keep your precious Wildings under control. 

[Jewlmc]

I really hope Dany tells Jon shes pregnant as she dies. " You know nothing Jon snow"

Too bad Drogon doesnt burn him to a cinder.

[BooBear]

3 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

This also assumes everything else is correct. I'm not saying it'll be good or it's not. But we only have episode 4 confirmed, not 5 or 6 yet.

There are several spoilers out there that have the information from episode for and the same spoilers we have heard from 5 and 6 that were posted months ago. My hope for foilers is gone. 

[Oscirus]

Tyrion looked legit pissed off in that missandei clip.  I don't see him going back to a save Cersei type of thing after that. Im dying to see how the fuck D and D will justify his thinking here.

[Smad]

So it took people until S8 to finally realize how racist D&D are? Geez some people are slow...

[GraceK]

9 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Tyrion looked legit pissed off in that missandei clip.  I don't see him going back to a save Cersei type of thing after that. Im dying to see how the fuck D and D will justify his thinking here.

Yeah I don’t get that either. I can’t see him trying to save Cersei, but at this point, nothing will surprise me. Literally nothing .

[shireenbamfatheon]

2 minutes ago, Smad said:

So it took people until S8 to finally realize how racist D&D are? Geez some people are slow...

Right? The whole crowdsurfing on brown people crying for "mother" thing should have given it away. Or the brown Dothrakis being hypersexual rapists who value their horses more than they do women and don't have a word for "thank you." Speaking of the Dothraki, good thing they're dead it the leaks about Dany unleashing her forces on the commonfolk are true. 

[Couver]

One thing this show did well was give the villains their comeuppance when the time came. So at least fans got that satisfaction. It sometimes came late like with Ramsay and the Freys but when it came it was GOOD.

I'm sad to see that Cersei goes out so mildly. No one to gloat at her and make her suffer? The character so richly deserved that after all these years.

[Jewlmc]

2 minutes ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

Right? The whole crowdsurfing on brown people crying for "mother" thing should have given it away. Or the brown Dothrakis being hypersexual rapists who value their horses more than they do women and don't have a word for "thank you." Speaking of the Dothraki, good thing they're dead it the leaks about Dany unleashing her forces on the commonfolk are true. 

And clearly not a memorable or important scene as Dany will be a cartoon villian as opposed to chain/wheel breaker.

[nikma]

 I'm surprised that people are constantly surprised about the same things every season.

As I said before this season started D&D have their MO that brought them success. So if you didn't like last 3-4 seasons you won't like this one.

What you expected? That they will change their style?

Edited May 5, 2019 by nikma

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Bannon said:

Well, look, if we are going to envision a story where the Winterfell crew hasn't been lobotomized, as soon as they burn the bodies after the long night, they ask Bran to locate Euron's fleet and the Golden Company. Arya is sent to integrate herself into the G.C.'s camp followers, and starts to assassinate its command structure, sowing chaos. Dany and Jon stage a night attack on the fleet, when the gunners can't see anything. Cersei gets stripped of her military power pretty quickly.

What are the limits to what Bran can see?

[Stallion12]

20 minutes ago, BooBear said:

There are several spoilers out there that have the information from episode for and the same spoilers we have heard from 5 and 6 that were posted months ago. My hope for foilers is gone. 

True, but many episode 3 spoilers turned out false, so much is out for episode 4 because the whole episode leaked.

[Lillith]

5 minutes ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

Right? The whole crowdsurfing on brown people crying for "mother" thing should have given it away. Or the brown Dothrakis being hypersexual rapists who value their horses more than they do women and don't have a word for "thank you." Speaking of the Dothraki, good thing they're dead it the leaks about Dany unleashing her forces on the commonfolk are true. 

Wouldn't all of this be the "fault" of GRRM? The Dothraki were based on the Mongols with a dash of the Native American Plains tribes. 

The whole "white savior" thing with Dany is lame but also not their invention. 

[Oscirus]

4 minutes ago, Couver said:

One thing this show did well was give the villains their comeuppance when the time came. So at least fans got that satisfaction. It sometimes came late like with Ramsay and the Freys but when it came it was GOOD.

I'm sad to see that Cersei goes out so mildly. No one to gloat at her and make her suffer? The character so richly deserved that after all these years.

Other than keeping her rule, Cersei basically gets everything she wants and got to avenge all her kids deaths. Do D and D actually identify with the villains cuz wtf?

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, Affogato said:

What are the limits to what Bran can see?

As far as I can tell,  he can send flocks of birds anywhere, and see whatever a bird sees. Meaning locating a large army and fleet of ships is pretty simple.

[Jewlmc]

What happens to cersei?

[Smad]

6 minutes ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

Right? The whole crowdsurfing on brown people crying for "mother" thing should have given it away. Or the brown Dothrakis being hypersexual rapists who value their horses more than they do women and don't have a word for "thank you." Speaking of the Dothraki, good thing they're dead it the leaks about Dany unleashing her forces on the commonfolk are true. 

Apparently people needed to see 100k PoC being wiped out in literally seconds in a way that made no sense. To see the only woman of color beheaded by white people after which what is left of the PoC will unleash hell on all the white people after which they will need to be stopped by other white people.

I've said before that D&D are racist, homophobic, anti-religion and sexist. I've said this in S7 too and people told me I had no idea what I was talking about.

[GraceK]

Also if you look at execution scene, it looks like they throw Missendeei’s headless body over the wall. You see it behind Tyrion as he looks away. So it’s especially brutal and disrespectful. So anyone saying that Dany isn’t justified to go apeshit, or that Cersei doesn’t deserve to die horribly is wrong. Cersei is the villain, not Daenerys. This isn’t Dany was evil all along, this is literally pushing a good person to the limits of her endurance. Arya Stark hasn’t even gone through this shit and I see no one is saying she should die. 

Edited May 5, 2019 by GraceK

[mirsk1]

Long time lurker, first time posting.  I am not surprised at these leaks.  I have suspected for a while that there would be a showdown between Jon and Dany.  Did anyone really believe that Jon and Dany would live happily ever after?  This is GOT after all.

All we have are one sentence leaks.  No dialogue to fill in the cracks, so to speak.  Just a few weeks ago, everyone was screaming about Friki's leaks and poor Tyrion.  Well, someone has to die, Jon, Dany, Tyrion - it's GOT, not a disney movie.  And the death has to be tragic to make an impact.  Death can be tragic and senseless.

Missendei's death is tragic, but also not unexpected.  Did anyone really think that she and Grey Worm would survive and move to Naath?

As far as Dany using Drogon to destroy Kings Landing - didn't Tyrion tell Jon last season that over one million people lived in Kings Landing?  If she unleashes Drogon to kill everyone in Kings Landing, that's not war, that's genocide.

One more thing - for those protesting that there are no women in power at the end, I think that too many people are looking at this show through 21st century eyes.  Women in medieval times had little to no power.  Women couldn't even vote until the 20th century. Taking it even further, to this day, there is still no female President or VP, so why would the middle ages be more enlightened.  After all, that's what GOT is based on, The War of the Roses.

[LadyChaos]

33 minutes ago, Jewlmc said:

I really hope Dany tells Jon shes pregnant as she dies. " You know nothing Jon snow"

Too bad Drogon doesnt burn him to a cinder.

Do you really hate Jon that much?

What are these clips and images everyone is talking about?

Edited May 5, 2019 by LadyChaos

[Nightingale]

From what I've read about the episode, it really does sound like the people staying in Winterfell (Sansa, Sam, Brienne, Gendry ...) are gonna do nothing until they have to go to the Dragonpit. That sounds really strange but maybe Cersei vs Dany vs Jon was the only big storyline left. There's no point in Sam and Sansa plotting for Jon to betray Dany since he's gonna take care of that all by himself anyway.

[JennyMominFL]

8 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Also if you look at execution scene, it looks like they throw Missendeei’s headless body over the wall. You see it behind Tyrion as he looks away. So it’s especially brutal and disrespectful. So anyone saying that Dany isn’t justified to go apeshit, or that Cersei doesn’t deserve to die horribly is wrong. Cersei is the villain, not Daenerys. 

If she goes apeshit and takes it out in the people responsible that is fine. If she kills everyone in her path its not fine. She decided to go after the throne. She decided to risk her friends life. Her friends came of their own free will knowing that death was the risk. By all means kill those involved, but that is where the line is drawn.

Maybe its my time in the Marines that taught me that total war is not OK and is in fact a crime

Edited May 5, 2019 by JennyMominFL

[Umbelina]

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I won't know if I'll love it until I see it play out but, I think I'm happy with it. I stopped expecting good/happy, traditional hero endings when Ned Stark lost his head. The Red Wedding convinced me it would end in mostly tragedy and blood.

I think this is probably the only way it could end without being a total copout. I'm sad for Jon's ending but, even that is fitting to the character. 

The Pack and Tyrion survives, I'm pretty happy at this point

It is so hard for me to understand how anyone expected a storybook happy ending (unless they just watched the show, and didn't read the books at all.)  GRRM has said for so long it's about war, and the horror and stupidity of war, and doesn't care one shit about people who think they deserve to "rule."

As someone who liked the spoilers from the beginning, at least as far as an ending I could live with in the books?  It just kind of baffles me honestly.

I'm not a huge fan of GRRM writing, mostly I find him self indulgent and he takes so fucking long to get anywhere.  (Dany is still across the sea fucking up in the books for example.)  However, some of his writing is just so beautiful and thought provoking.  For me, those places were rarely with the "rulers" but nearly always with the "small folk" who were constantly paying the price for the "games" of those who considered themselves betters.

It's why, despite everything Littlefinger did, I liked him as a character, if only because he pulled himself up by his bootstraps, using only his wits.  He was evil, but more evil than the so-called legitimate royalty like Tywin?  Not to me.

The sweet part of this ending is for the masses of people these "nobles" have destroyed in their search for personal power and glory.  It's not absolute, but it's a start.

3 hours ago, Advance35 said:

LOL, I'll join your table.

Not shocked by any of the leaks or of the fates revealed.   The potential fate spelled out in the leaks is no worse then Ned Stark or The Red Wedding, in my eyes.

snip

I have know doubt this is the fate of all these characters in the books.  GRRM just didn't get there (and let's be real, he was never going to).  I'm still grateful to D&D that I will know how this whole saga ends.

The leaks made sense to me, and I agree, the violence of the "nobles" has been a constant, this ending is nothing new, except for the outcome.  They essentially cease to rule or exist.

The books, which will never come, might have done it better, but I think the ending will be the same, and at least we finally HAVE an ending.  It may not be my dream ending, but at least it's there.  It sounds like the hound is still alive too, so yay!

3 hours ago, Stallion12 said:

And the franchise, many aren't going to watch thecspinoffs if the ending is this bad.

That could be an issue for HBO, we shall see.

3 hours ago, GraceK said:

So according to that summary, it still seems like Dany tries to negotiate and be reasonable and Cersei decides to straight up murder Missandei. 

So tell me, in what universe is Daenarys not allowed to flip her shit and finally rain down fire and blood? How much more saintly can she be? How are her actions not justified?

No one is saying Dany's reaction isn't justified, if you are big on vengeance and mass murder.  She's certainly provoked, and I do not think it makes her "crazy."

Still, mothers and brothers and sisters will be crying over their burned loved ones for the rest of their lives.  THEY matter too.  If Jon stops that?  It's also justified.  Would you sacrifice your loved ones because Dany deserved vengeance?

2 hours ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

Also, Dany tells Jon not to tell anyone about his claim because it trumps hers lmao. So she'd rather everyone believe Rhaegar was a rapist who kidnapped an innocent young girl than reveal the truth.  

Interesting tidbit there, no shocking, because Dany is singleminded.  It's one of her best and also her worst qualities.

2 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

You all are assuming that the spoilers are real.  We don't know that they are.

I thought they were probably real from the beginning.  Those videos are proof.

2 hours ago, onyxrose81 said:

Dany telling Jon not to tell anyone about his claim is so stupid.  Just get married.  It’s just another example of gotdamn useless writing.  

I don't think Jon is OK with incest.  The Targs were, but not Jon, so happily ever after ruling while they marry and have kids was always out of the question.

2 hours ago, nikma said:

That's true. GRRM hates love lol.

I'm still heartbroken about Tyrion's first marriage.  😉

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

It seems kind of cruel to have Arya hook up with Gendry only to reject him, but I didn’t think before 8x02 aired that Arya would end up with Gendry in the books, so I guess Arya/Gendry is going to be a bit of fan service. To be fair, the writers and Maisie were careful not to say that Arya is currently in love with Gendry, only that she once was and that she had sex with him because she wanted to experience it before dying.

SO, We have an answer to Arya's look after sex.  It wasn't that great.

2 hours ago, anamika said:

Fucking useless Bran getting made King at the end is the absolute worst. Ugh.

But hey, atleast the memes that will come out of this will be fun.

NOT "King."

There is no throne, no King, no Queen.

Bran who can see the past, present, and future, and cares only about the survival of humanity, is there to oversee a council.  It doesn't say lead them, and he would have no interest in the small day to day shit unless it would lead to disaster, at which point he could warn, advise.

2 hours ago, Nightingale said:

You know they're gonna have close ups of poor innocent toddlers being burned by the Mad Queen Dany with the sad violin version of the Lannister song playing. Same as 7x04.

Same. If they had confessed their undying love in episode 1 and talked about leaving Westeros i'd probably swoon at the Romeo and Juliet tragedy. Right now I'm baffled.

How is Dany "mad" when so many people here, not directly involved, are cheering Dany to "BURN THEM ALL!"  ?  I don't see the "mad" thing. 
She's furious, but that doesn't mean "insane.'

2 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Cant even blame Martin over this because at least he'd build it up way better than this.  This is a rush job of epic proportions.

Better than taking over twenty years and still getting almost nowhere I suppose. 😉

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

Another image leak confirms Jaime/Brienne sex.

I'm thrilled that Jaime has finally had sex with anyone not Cercei.  He kept himself faithful to her while she had sex with anyone and everyone.  At least he finally moved on, only to sadly die in the end.

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

I'm sure the millions of dollars they've made will comfort them regardless of how they feel about Dany and Jon's final fate.  Even if they're one hit wonders who never do anything again that's still a lot better than 99.9% of actors.

This is also what Oleanna said in her final scene.  In any case, if Dany isn't willing to burn KL to the ground then she should just give up and go back to Essos now.  She almost certainly lacks the forces to take KL the conventional way, and even if she goes on a grand tour of the Seven Kingdoms to rally support I don't think she'll be that successful.  I don't think most people really care who sits on the Throne as long as they're left alone.  If they were going to make some grand stand for decency they would have done it after the Sept of Baelor was nuked.

Oh, I think the "people" will be thrilled they no longer have to bow and scrape and starve for a "King" or "Queen" and that there is some hope, finally, of real change for them.

1 hour ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

There is this one spoiler that goes "Jon finally sees Arya" in episode 5 or 6 which sounds a bit strange. But according to the episode summary, Arya will infiltrate the city and be among the civilians crammed into the Red Keep to prevent Dany from burning it to the ground. But if she goes through with it anyway, which the leaks and leaked set pics indicate she does, then Jon might believe she's burned his sister alive as well until he later "sees her". He is not going to take that well. 

Yes, that could force Jon to kill Dany as well, to save Arya.

1 hour ago, MadameKillerB said:

Wishful thinking: Could these leaks be fake scenes? 

CGI is very expensive, if they wanted to fake something, they wouldn't be using the CGI method.  So?  No.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Umbelina

[JennyMominFL]

6 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

It is so hard for me to understand how anyone expected a storybook happy ending (unless they just watched the show, and didn't read the books at all.)  GRRM has said for so long it's about war, and the horror and stupidity of war, and doesn't care one shit about people who think they deserve to "rule."

As someone who liked the spoilers from the beginning, at least as far as an ending I could live with in the books?  It just kind of baffles me honestly.

I'm not a huge fan of GRRM writing, mostly I find him self indulgent and he takes so fucking long to get anywhere.  (Dany is still across the sea fucking up in the books for example.)  However, some of his writing is just so beautiful and thought provoking.  For me, those places were rarely with the "rulers" but nearly always with the "small folk" who were constantly paying the price for the "games" of those who considered themselves betters.

It's why, despite everything Littlefinger did, I liked him as a character, if only because he pulled himself up by his bootstraps, using only his wits.  He was evil, but more evil than the so-called legitimate royalty like Tywin?  Not to me.

The sweet part of this ending is for the masses of people these "nobles" have destroyed in their search for personal power and glory.  It's not absolute, but it's a start.

The leaks made sense to me, and I agree, the violence of the "nobles" has been a constant, this ending is nothing new, except for the outcome.  They essentially cease to rule or exist.

The books, which will never come, might have done it better, but I think the ending will be the same, and at least we finally HAVE an ending.  It may not be my dream ending, but at least it's there.  It sounds like the hound is still alive too, so yay!

That could be an issue for HBO, we shall see.

No one is saying Dany's reaction isn't justified, if you are big on vengeance and mass murder.  She's certainly provoked, and I do not think it makes her "crazy."

Still, mothers and brothers and sisters will be crying over their burned loved ones for the rest of their lives.  THEY matter too.  If Jon stops that?  It's also justified.  Would you sacrifice your loved ones because Dany deserved vengeance?

Interesting tidbit there, no shocking, because Dany is singleminded.  It's one of her best and also her worst qualities.

I thought they were probably real from the beginning.  Those videos are proof.

I don't think Jon is OK with incest.  The Targs were, but not Jon, so happily ever after ruling while they marry and have kids was always out of the question.

I'm still heartbroken about Tyrion's first marriage.  😉

SO, We have an answer to Arya's look after sex.  It wasn't that great.

NOT "King."

There is no throne, no King, no Queen.

Bran who can see the past, present, and future, and cares only about the survival of humanity, is there to oversee a council.  It doesn't say lead them, and he would have no interest in the small day to day shit unless it would lead to disaster, at which point he could warn, advise.

How is Dany "mad" when so many people her, not directly involved, are cheering Dany to "BURN THEM ALL!"  ?  I don't see the "mad" thing.

Better than taking over twenty years and still getting almost nowhere I suppose. 😉

I'm thrilled that Jaime has finally had sex with anyone not Cercei.  He kept himself faithful to her while she had sex with anyone and everyone.  At least he finally moved on, only to sadly die in the end.

Oh, I think the "people" will be thrilled they no longer have to bow and scrape and starve for a "King" or "Queen" and that there is some hope, finally, of real change for them.

Yes, that could force Jon to kill Dany as well, to save Arya.

CGI is very expensive, if they wanted to fake something, they wouldn't be using the CGI method.  So?  No.

All of this is what I have been trying to say . I think the seeds for this have always been there.

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

t is so hard for me to understand how anyone expected a storybook happy ending (unless they just watched the show, and didn't read the books at all.)  GRRM has said for so long it's about war, and the horror and stupidity of war, and doesn't care one shit about people who think they deserve to "rule."

I never read the books so GoT was my introduction to this world and Ned losing his head was a total shock to me, I was devastated. After that I read a summary of every character I loved to make sure they survived (at least until where they were in the books that were out).

Those 2 events (Ned and Rob were my favorite characters) pretty much convinced me this is just going to end badly.

[aprilbabe]

Is Jon killing Dany episode 5 or 6?  Something tells me it's the end of episode 5.

[ihavenoidea]

5 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

If she goes apeshit and takes it out in the people responsible that is fine. If she kills everyone in her path its not fine. She decided to go after the throne. She decided to risk her friends life. Her friends came of their own free will knowing that death was the risk. By all means kill those involved, but that is where the line is drawn.

Maybe its my time in the Marines that taught me that total war is not OK and is in fact a crime

My problem is not that Jon thinks Dany has gone too far and needs to be taken out if she indeed goes insane, my problem is the lead up to it was practically non existent.  This season started and suddenly Dany was portrayed as straight up crazy.  I remember telling my friend that it was like she had a huge neon sign on her forehead that said evil in 8x01.  We've seen absolutely nothing in prior seasons absent burning the Tarly's the would lead up to this imo.  People love Brienne and Jaime because it was built up through seasons.  This Jon/Dany thing and now crazy Dany was like a last minute thing they rushed through just to get to because the plot demanded it.  It's hugely unsatisfying.