Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Eyes High]

9 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

This one is all true so far, except perhaps about Lyanna, but she's dead, so she would?  They corrected it to say Jon kills Dany, the only thing that hasn't happened yet.

From an Emily interviews:  https://www.inverse.com/article/54030-game-of-thrones-season-8-spoilers-emilia-clarke-daenerys-ending

“She starts feeling pretty cocksure and confident, and then stuff happens,” Clarke tells BAZAAR.com of Dany’s arrival North and her first encounter with Sansa Stark (Sophie Turner), which HBO teased in early promos.

“Every single piece that I put on made sense for the scene that I was in, and made sense with the place that the character’s in at that time,” she said. “There’s a real through-line for this particular season, there’s a real arc and I feel like fans, like hardcore fans, will clock what’s happening within the reflection of the clothing.”

about the ending:  “It fucked me up,” she said then. “Knowing that is going to be a lasting flavor in someone’s mouth of what Daenerys is.”

The shocking death really seems like it could be Dany.

The first problem with this is that the extra in question seems to have been there for the KL exterior set filming in May, June, and early July. Emilia did an interview for Vogue in April or earlier where she indicated that she had already filmed Dany's final scenes of the show. So this shocking death was likely something that was filmed much later, not Dany's final scenes of the show.

Also, Architectural Digest claimed that Dany's final scenes of the show were filmed in Dubrovnik, which wouldn't involve the same extras. And if that's true (which may not be the case), Dany's final scenes of the show are not death scenes, since big character death scenes would never be filmed in a public place.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Eyes High

[Oscirus]

5 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

This one is all true so far, except perhaps about Lyanna, but she's dead, so she would?  They corrected it to say Jon kills Dany, the only thing that hasn't happened yet.

From an Emily interviews:  https://www.inverse.com/article/54030-game-of-thrones-season-8-spoilers-emilia-clarke-daenerys-ending

“She starts feeling pretty cocksure and confident, and then stuff happens,” Clarke tells BAZAAR.com of Dany’s arrival North and her first encounter with Sansa Stark (Sophie Turner), which HBO teased in early promos.

“Every single piece that I put on made sense for the scene that I was in, and made sense with the place that the character’s in at that time,” she said. “There’s a real through-line for this particular season, there’s a real arc and I feel like fans, like hardcore fans, will clock what’s happening within the reflection of the clothing.”

about the ending:  “It fucked me up,” she said then. “Knowing that is going to be a lasting flavor in someone’s mouth of what Daenerys is.”

The shocking death really seems like it could be Dany.

All true so far. Lyanna does briefly become a white walker even if we don't see her in action, we see her blue eyes and raising.

[magdalene]

11 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

The first problem with this is that the extra in question seems to have been there for the KL exterior set filming in May, June, and early July. Emilia did an interview for Vogue in April or earlier where she indicated that she had already filmed Dany's final scenes of the show. So this shocking death was likely something that was filmed much later, not Dany's final scenes of the show.

Also, Architectural Digest claimed that Dany's final scenes of the show were filmed in Dubrovnik, which wouldn't involve the same extras. And if that's true (which may not be the case), Dany's final scenes of the show are not death scenes, since big character death scenes would never be filmed in a public place.

Edited 3 minutes ago by Eyes High

They do not always film the scenes in sequence.  Somebody could be filming their death scene before filming scenes that take place prior in the narrative.

[Eyes High]

10 minutes ago, magdalene said:

They do not always film the scenes in sequence.  Somebody could be filming their death scene before filming scenes that take place prior in the narrative.

I am aware of that, but Emilia was talking about her character's last scenes, not the final scenes she shot as Dany (which she would have filmed months later in June). And if she had already filmed Dany's last scenes in April or in Dubrovnik, it's extremely unlikely that extras brought in for the KL stuff in May in Belfast would know anything about them.

It seems likely that that main character getting shockingly offed was filming their death scene last, as actors on GOT filming their final scenes often have done (Kristian Nairn, Olenna Rigg, Jonathan Pryce, and several other actors). So it was one of the KL bunch given the extra's other information about KL scenes if it was anyone.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Eyes High

[Umbelina]

15 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I am aware of that, but Emilia was talking about her character's last scenes, not the final scenes she shot as Dany (which she would have filmed months later in June). And if she had already filmed Dany's last scenes in April or in Dubrovnik, it's extremely unlikely that extras brought in for the KL stuff in May in Belfast would know anything about them.

is it known that these spoilers come from an "extra?"

I just watched an extra feature on the Star Wars III DVD's.  It was about how many people worked on ONE minute of the film.  Thousands of people did, from CGI, to make up people, to costuming people, props people, stunt people, fighting instructors, the crew, on and on, including the musicians watching the film while scoring it.  There are a hell of a lot of people would could post spoilers, and if they did, I'd pick an ID that wasn't what I did, such as "an extra."

Edited May 2, 2019 by Umbelina

[magdalene]

I have been wondering why Benioff is feeling the need to get drunk and stay off the internet during the first airing of the finale.  Fearing a fan back lash?

If Dany is killed off - and I am not convinced of that - than that's all on GRRM.  Benioff and Weiss wouldn't change something that big.

[Raachel2008]

5 hours ago, Eyes High said:

It looks like Jon leaves Tormund at Winterfell from that one promo shot of 8x04 and goes to KL. Going back to the Randalstown forest filming in March 2018, where Kit and Kristofer as well as other actors filmed a very short scene in a forest dusted lightly with fake snow, it seems like we now know by process of elimination that this forest scene with Jon and Tormund is from 8x06. One of the prop trucks had a big sleigh-looking prop in it, so it's possible that Bran was in this scene, too. Is this Jon resettling the wildlings? Bidding Tormund a last farewell? Seems like epilogue stuff to me. The scene was shot in one day in March 2018, so it's not a long one. And if Jon is playing a role in resettling the wildlings, does that mean Jon is king after all? If there's only a little snow in the scene, maybe the seasons recalibrate themselves and the winter is much shorter than anticipated.

If the leaks about Jon killing Dany and taking the black again are true,  then maybe Jon is meeting Tormund and heading far North with the wildlings - or whatever is left of them - for exile.

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I think he's shown a lot of character, and yes, compassion, but that hasn't been his ruling emotion, because his desire is survival, and that means money, since his particular sperm and egg weren't "royal."

I'm sorry, but someone who thinks only about his own survival, shouldn't ever be part of a council deciding other people's lives. I like Bronn, he is fun to watch, but moral compass he is not.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Raachel2008

[Jextella]

I feel a build up to Dany losing her you-know-what has been in the works since the beginning.  She's changed dramatically from the beginning and is now pretty ruthless.  

On top of that, she's lost her life's purpose (the Iron Throne), Jorah, one of her dragons, the man she loves (after learning that Jon is her nephew), and Messandei, etc.

If Dany goes ballistic, she has good reason, and I don't feel it would be from out of nowhere - and I don't feel she's done a 180.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Jextella

[anamika]

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a27287639/john-bradley-game-of-thrones-samwell-tarly-battle-of-winterfell-season-8-ending-interview/

Quote

That included Tarly, who refused to stay in the presumed safety of the crypts.

"He wouldn't have been able to live with himself if Jon or anyone else died while he was safe in the crypts," Bradley tells me.

In fact, given what happens in the crypts in Episode Two, Bradley tells me that Sam would probably have rather been there protecting Gilly and Little Sam, rather than fighting on the front lines.

"In that moment he decides that these are the people he's fighting for," Bradley says. "He decides to fight for his own sense of duty. I think that's a really powerful moment."

“One word that I always use to describe how people feel about the show is satisfying. Happiness isn't something that this show goes about too well, because they've never bothered about keeping an audience happy. So when people say, 'Am I gonna be happy with the ending?' It's like, well, maybe not. Because everybody's got a different way that it wants to end,” Bradley says. “The Red Wedding is a hugely satisfying, dramatic moment, but you don't want it to happen. And I think that with Sam, I'm happy with the ending, but mainly because I'm just satisfied with it.”

Is John comparing Sam's ending to being as satisfying as the Red Wedding?

[GrailKing]

On 4/30/2019 at 3:54 PM, Happy Harpy said:

It struck me as weird how the writers stressed her antagonism and her irrational hostility towards Dany in 8x03; while Dany was risking her life outside so Sansa could only look petty. On top of it, they allowed another character to verbally smack her down about it.

They them selves did this ?

Because there was no hostility towards Dani in 8-3, Sansa stated a truth, Tyrion will and does have  conflicts. We ourselves saw them; Missandei was butt hurt, because she and they weren't welcomed with open arms; she also butted in on a private conversation that had nothing to do with her or her Queen.

[ShellsandCheese]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Every single piece that I put on made sense for the scene that I was in, and made sense with the place that the character’s in at that time,” she said. “There’s a real through-line for this particular season, there’s a real arc and I feel like fans, like hardcore fans, will clock what’s happening within the reflection of the clothing.”

Character development through wardrobe choices? Interesting. I still don’t feel like anything has been set up regarding Tyrion being a traitor or Dany going mad. I did the whole rewatch before the new season started - and that’s not at all where either of their arcs were headed. Even 7.4 - Dany made sure that Drogon’s Fire was mostly used to destroy the wagons and supplies. If she had wanted to, she easily could have killed everyone on that field. People who have a mad thirst for power and who are single mindedly focused on the Iron Throne don’t waste their time uses their resources for side projects. I’ll have too what happens in episode four. 

ETA: So far season eight has been a hot mess. 

Edited May 2, 2019 by ShellsandCheese

[Umbelina]

I question the "go mad" thing.  Dany can be pretty damn destructive when she gets angry.  She is single minded about "her Kingdom" and with all the work she's put in, I don't think she will put up with anything standing in her way now that she's so close.

Madness does run in her family but in Dany's case, what is "insane" and what is Dany simply doing whatever it takes to achieve her goals?

That could be frightening enough for someone to kill her, to stop her rage.

[Lemuria]

9 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Bran wouldn't need to have kids, because, there is no more KING or Queen.  Westeros evolves.

I see a lot of 21st century--not to mention, wishful--thinking when we're discussing the possible future.  "Evolution" doesn't happen overnight.  Or even in a decade.  You can't just take a people who have always been ruled absolutely (not just by a central king, but also by their own Wardens and before that, their own monarchs) and jump right into representative democracy.  

Where are the members of this Great Council coming from?  One from each of the former kingdoms? And how are they being picked?  By a single individual--Bran, possibly?--in which case they sit at the whim of the person who can "hire" or "fire" them.

By the heads of the Houses in each area?  Then we've substituted an oligarchy for a monarchy, and the small folk are no better off.

By the vote of everyone?  That ain't gonna be pulled off in a continent that has absolutely no experience with, or clue about, this.  How many decades would it take to even set the system up?

I can see the wheel rolling over everyone again in a very short order.

I don't think Bran is a good choice. Yes, he certainly doesn't seem to be ruled by greed or ambition or spite (though after this last ep, we can't be totally sure about that).  OTOH, he doesn't seem to care about people or have any feelings or understanding in regard to them, or any real concern for the general welfare.  Sort of the ultimate Big Picture Guy.

[GrailKing]

10 hours ago, WindyNights said:

Bran by himself, nah. King Bran as an absentee king that uses his powers to help with Sansa as the one actually ruling though, that would work. 

Just about any combo of: Jon, Bran, Tyrion, Davos etc with Sansa would work, they each augment the other nicely no matter how it's sliced.

[Minneapple]

Emilia was just on Kimmel's show and she said Episode 5 is crazy, find the biggest TV you can. No other spoilers, but Emilia is always super cute and one of those interviews I always enjoy because she's so bubbly and happy.

D&D are on Kimmel's show tomorrow.

[RedheadZombie]

3 hours ago, SeanC said:

People (understandably) have been speculating about Missandei's death for a long time due to Nathalie's seemingly early filming completion.  But since she survived the Siege of Winterfell, I honestly don't see her dying at this point.  Her ending up in Cersei's custody doesn't seem all that probable.

Why would she even go to KL?  

[GrailKing]

10 hours ago, Wouter said:

In turn, Sansa didn't kneel for him as she did in the show.

In book she never Kneels, or cry in public; ever.

[Jextella]

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

I'm sorry, but someone who thinks only about his own survival, shouldn't ever be part of a council deciding other people's lives. I like Bronn, he is fun to watch, but moral compass he is not.

Agreed. However, Bronn was paid a lot of gold by Cersei to kill both her brothers.   Could be he does something super impressive to justify a seat at the table.  I have no idea what it would be, but there is still some story to play out for Bronn.

I was thinking that Cersei (and Euron) must have had a game plan for dealing with the Whitewalkers should they not have been defeated.  Or maybe not.  Cersei seemed more threatened by the remaining humans than the dead...but if she did have a game plan, I wonder if the others fall victim to it to some degree.

[Umbelina]

51 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

I see a lot of 21st century--not to mention, wishful--thinking when we're discussing the possible future.  "Evolution" doesn't happen overnight.  Or even in a decade.  You can't just take a people who have always been ruled absolutely (not just by a central king, but also by their own Wardens and before that, their own monarchs) and jump right into representative democracy.  

Where are the members of this Great Council coming from?  One from each of the former kingdoms? And how are they being picked?  By a single individual--Bran, possibly?--in which case they sit at the whim of the person who can "hire" or "fire" them.

By the heads of the Houses in each area?  Then we've substituted an oligarchy for a monarchy, and the small folk are no better off.

By the vote of everyone?  That ain't gonna be pulled off in a continent that has absolutely no experience with, or clue about, this.  How many decades would it take to even set the system up?

I can see the wheel rolling over everyone again in a very short order.

I don't think Bran is a good choice. Yes, he certainly doesn't seem to be ruled by greed or ambition or spite (though after this last ep, we can't be totally sure about that).  OTOH, he doesn't seem to care about people or have any feelings or understanding in regard to them, or any real concern for the general welfare.  Sort of the ultimate Big Picture Guy.

But Bran sees the future and the past, so yes, I think he is exactly the right choice.  Of course things will take time to evolve, but just about anything is better than what they've had under the current system. 

If someone wins the throne, the wheel will definitely roll over everyone again, in short order.

There is a lot to fix, and Bran has the eyes to see what is best for the whole, not for himself, or for anyone else. 

Aside from all that, the book began with a Stark, I think it will probably all end with a Stark, and while Eddard as King had issues, like killing that poor guy that was trying to warn them of the white walkers just because the rules said he must?  In other ways he seemed to rule justly, and had the respect of his people. 

[GraceK]

I think Euron is gonna be a surprise contender for final boss. He is much more villainous in the books, and if they are sticking to GRRMS game plan, they may keep course and follow through with book Eurons original end even if the road there in the show is different. It’s possible Cersei is a red herring to maneuver Euron in a position of power to get him in his book place .

[Oscirus]

25 minutes ago, GraceK said:

I think Euron is gonna be a surprise contender for final boss. He is much more villainous in the books, and if they are sticking to GRRMS game plan, they may keep course and follow through with book Eurons original end even if the road there in the show is different. It’s possible Cersei is a red herring to maneuver Euron in a position of power to get him in his book place .

Could very well be. Cersei's always known for half assing plans that come back to bite her.  Euron does come across as a dangerous dude and it would subvert expectations.

[anamika]

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/ews-game-of-thrones-weekly/e/60343835?autoplay=true

So I listened to Hibberd’s podcast with that annoying guy to listen to his thoughts on the episode considering Hibberd knows something of the ending and knows D&D. I thought maybe he would say something about the show killing off it’s primary antagonist half way through. Seems like the reason was that D&D just thought that having the latter half of the show focussed on Cersei was more interesting and unexpected/surprising.

On Sansa-Tyrion:

Quote

“Really sweet scene with Tyrion and Sansa. Still a fair amount of affection there and obviously Tyrion still seems to be down with their arranged marriage and  renewing his marriage and maybe it could work and a sense from Sansa of NO. Because of Dany. Really Sansa? Dany is up there on a dragon right now risking her life to save you and you are still slamming her while hiding in the crypt?”

On Dany-Jorah:

Quote

“One thing I liked about his death was how Dany reacted. She really broke down and cried. I thought that was good for her character because we see her being so formal and rigid and harsh. And to remind us that there is still that humanity in her I think was important”

On the ending of the episode:

Quote

“ Show deals with the supernatural threat first and deal with the Iron Throne later. It’s super smart.  Three supersized episodes dealing with the war for the iron throne. So much of the second half was black boxed – and the way it’s been presented so far – the story of GOT final season – everyone comes to WF and they battle the army of the dead.  The rest of this is unknown territory.  It’s almost like two seasons in one. It’s like we have the story you expected and a whole another set of trilogy movies that we are getting. Everyone has got together and are triumphant and victorious  everyone is happy together. Then what happens? Are these relationships better and stronger for having fought together against a common enemy? Or do old rivalries and factions flourish now that there is no longer a common enemy? What’s going down in KL? Cersei is hoping AOTD wipes out her enemy. AOTD did wipe out a lot of soldiers – Dothraki etc. What are the numbers so far for Dany Vs Cersei? Are they now on an even playing field in this war? “

Quote

“ There’s a low body count because it’s not satisfactory for characters to die by zombie. It’s not as interesting as other ways one can perish like due to the machinations of other characters. I sort of feel like it’s a calculated number of deaths that feels about right. And I also wonder what’s Cersei’s plan? I have the feeling that she has some contingency plan for if the forces up north survive. I have a feeling that’s going to be stirring up some trouble”

Davos code name is banana.

Why did we not get ice spiders? Because Ice spiders look dumb. They wanted it to be very realistic. Same reason very less Direwolves - super sized direwolves look unrealistic.

GRRM was planning on calling the prequel the Long Night and was frustrated with this episode being named the same thing. Could be why HBO has not yet named the prequel before the episode aired.

Edited May 2, 2019 by anamika

[Happy Harpy]

2 hours ago, GrailKing said:

They them selves did this ?

Yes they did. But you said before that you refused to believe what they do even when it's written in black and white on a script, so I'm afraid a constructive discussion would be impossible. 🙂

The "extra" who gave info on the WF battle, which seemed believable enough, was BS (said that Tyrion and Sam manned a door together, for example). It seems that people who filmed for Ex06 had to wear special badges to enter the set. I doubt very much they have filmed a big spoilery scene in front of extras. Imo, the most important scenes were done in studios or in extra-securized sets if they had to film them outside.

I wonder why there's only Drogon above Dany's fleet in the trailer. Rhaegal is seen flying above WF but there might be a hole in his wing. Maybe he can't fly for long. It could be the writers' way of grounding a dragon and put Cersei in a better position.

There was word that Cersei was deposed by episode 4. Not sure it's going to happen. I thought she might send the GC to WF and surprise attack the survivors, I'm not sure it's going to happen either. Part of her forces should attack the Riverlands again (the Freys were on Cersei's side). But imo if they have to last 3 more episodes -although I'd take three other 8x02 and be the happiest camper- imo she will stay in KL with most of her troops because that's a way of avoiding an annihilation of Cersei's army by dragon(s).

I'm not sure that Daenerys knows of Cersei's pregnancy, or if it's common knowledge. I thought it was, but something in the way P.Dinklage played it when Tyrion and Jaime discussed it made me wonder. I don't think it was ever mentioned in front of her. Tyrion said to Sansa that Cersei "had a reason to live" but without specifying it.

I thought that long summers and long winters were owed to the climate and not specifically to the NK.

[ElizaD]

I don't know whether it'll mean anything, but the funeral photos have clear Team Stark and Team Dany groups, no "we all fought together" mixing of characters.

Now that the dead have already been defeated, I'm not sure that even Bronn's arrival could make Jaime go along with a plan to kill Cersei and his baby. Logically he and Tyrion should be trying to talk Dany into capturing Cersei, which they'd have a tough time selling to her without revealing the pregnancy.

[Kate47]

3 minutes ago, ElizaD said:

I don't know whether it'll mean anything, but the funeral photos have clear Team Stark and Team Dany groups, no "we all fought together" mixing of characters.

I have a feeling this is because each team is lighting the pyre for the people on their team (Jon for Edd, Dany for Jorah etc) and they might group together later or mingle to speak kind words about the deceased.

[Nightingale]

11 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Is there any indication that Brienne accompanies Jaime to KL? I remember information from extras about filming with Nikolaj, but nothing about Gwendoline. Does Brienne stay behind at Winterfell with Sansa?

No and I remember that after Seville, Gwendoline had a lot of fashion events and went on vacation with her boyfriend. She was only spotted in Belfast when they did the EW photoshoot, around June 4th-6th. I think she might stay in Winterfell, which begs the question, what's the storyline gonna be over there? Are Sam and Sansa gonna plot to put Jon on the throne by raven scrolls?

By the way can I ask why you think that Sam was involved in the KL sequence? I always assumed John wrapped in Seville with the others, for some reason.

1 hour ago, anamika said:

So I listened to Hibberd’s podcast with that annoying guy to listen to his thoughts on the episode considering Hibberd knows something of the ending and knows D&D.

Thank you, you took one for the team lol that other guy gives me a headache I can't listen to him.

I agree with them that Dany really had a good episode, which makes the recent spoilers even more baffling. A simple moment of her hesitating to save Jon or smirking at the idea of him dying would have set up a believable Mad Queen arc... but they didn't do that, quite the opposite. She was so worried about him that she put Drogon in danger. And she has plenty of shots where she looks happy in the promo so the assumption that she goes crazy because of Jorah doesn't work for me.

Also I keep seeing a lot of theories where Sansa and the Northeners are unhappy about having to fight against Cersei but that would, again, be bad writing. In 7x01, Sansa warned Jon that he should care about the Cersei problem as much as the NK problem. And it looks like she was right. Cersei sent them a scroll asking them to bent the knee or suffer the fate of all traitors so Sansa thinking that Cersei isn't her problem would be bad continuity. Not that this has stopped these writers before.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Nightingale

[anamika]

1 hour ago, Nightingale said:

I think she might stay in Winterfell, which begs the question, what's the storyline gonna be over there? Are Sam and Sansa gonna plot to put Jon on the throne by raven scrolls?

I think Cersei is going to send the Golden company to attack Winterfell while the rest of gang sails to Dragonstone. It's going to be the sack of of WF part II - mimicking what happened to WF when Robb went off to war.  All the leaks were pointing to GC and AOTD attacking at the same time or the GC attacking before the AOTD and being surprised by the AOTD.

What if the GC attacks after the AOTD is defeated? We never considered this option because no one suspected the NK/AOTD would be defeated this easy in one episode. We all imagined the NK going to KL.

As you say, something should occupy the WF gang while the dragonstone gang is planning war. From the looks of it, I think even Royce and the Vale army march south which means it's going to be upto Sansa, Arya and Bran to defend it with a small army.

This could be where the scroll comes into the picture when Sansa sends a SOS for help via raven to dragonstone gang.

Could be why Sapochnik said it was one story and there's more fighting next episode and it all culminates in episode 5. I think the next episode is going to be very interesting.

Hibberd  talked about why the body count was low last episode - because they wanted more characters to die by the machinations of other characters. I predict some characters dying next episode - including Pod.

I think Brienne and Pod will stay behind with the Starks and Pod will die. Not sure if Sam is going to follow Jon around to dragon stone to nag him about the Iron Throne or stay behind with Gilly and little Sam - this could be where Gilly may die.

If Friki is right, this could be where Tyrion's "betrayal of the Starks" comes into the picture since Dany is now no longer around and it's going to Cersei Vs Starks at WF. That is if Tyrion has orchestrated this somehow - but we only know all this later on.

Not sure what Jaime is going to do now.

1 hour ago, Nightingale said:

By the way can I ask why you think that Sam was involved in the KL sequence? I always assumed John wrapped in Seville with the others, for some reason.

No, John Bradley continued filming for some time. He was there in Belfast when Emilia wrapped mid June.

1 hour ago, Nightingale said:

Thank you, you took one for the team lol that other guy gives me a headache I can't listen to him.

lol, thanks. One of the most annoying podcasters ever. And has nothing useful to contribute despite being a book reader. I thought that maybe he would ask Hibberd about the prophecies and Ice and fire and Mel and NK, but nothing.

In other news:

Quote

Were you sad that the Night King died?

I can’t even tell you — I was supposed to hold so many [secrets], say nothing about this episode. Not even my family knew. For me, when he died on the TV, I said, “Now I am free.” I can say anything on the street. But when I saw how she killed him, I had many different feelings inside. Me as myself, I said, “No, no, why! Don’t kill him!” I’d like to stop her. “Don’t, don’t kill him! He’s not so bad.”

You think he’s not so bad?

Look, we think he’s going to kill Bran, but who knows if he’s going to kill him? He doesn’t rush. Maybe he had different [plans]. Maybe he wanted to do something else. You know? Then she kills him. But maybe he was gonna show them, “No, no, no, wait, I’m here for something else!”

https://www.vulture.com/2019/04/game-of-thrones-vladimir-furdik-night-king-interview.html

Edited May 2, 2019 by anamika

[Nightingale]

22 minutes ago, anamika said:

No, John Bradley continued filming for some time. He was there in Belfast when Emilia wrapped mid June.

You're right, I just now went back to Emilia's Instagram and saw them at a festival together on June 17th. I'm desperately hoping that he was there for ADR or something, I can't take yet another action sequence where Sam wants to be brave and ends up crying and being a liability. And I could do without him nagging Jon.

Jaime will end up in the south for sure, there was that extra who talked about him being in the KL sequence with Arya and the Hound and Nikolaj filmed his interviews in the interiors of the Red Keep. He also filmed at some caves, if I recall? 

I think your entire speculation about the GC attacking Winterell makes a lot of sense and it would explain why the characters end up being separated into groups yet again and why some of the fighters are still there. If the writers really wanted them all to stick together and flee south, burning Winterfell would have made that easy but they decided otherwise so there has to be a big storyline up in the North.

And it's really boring to think that these characters, Bran, Sansa, Brienne, Gendry, and co, would just stay there until they have to go south for the Dragonpit event. It would mean that their storylines are already done and they're just waiting for their endgame.

Also I think BoatsexBaby made a post recently (based on sleuthing, not fleaks) that showed a picture of Lannister, Unsullied and Northern soldiers in King's Landing, no GC. I'm just surprised that they managed to film so many different action sequences in Winterfell without us knowing. It all seemed to be from 8x03, at the time. Let's just hope the lighting is better.

[nikma]

8 hours ago, GraceK said:

Or Tyrion.

Why not both? Lol

[SimoneS]

9 hours ago, Eyes High said:

The first problem with this is that the extra in question seems to have been there for the KL exterior set filming in May, June, and early July. Emilia did an interview for Vogue in April or earlier where she indicated that she had already filmed Dany's final scenes of the show. So this shocking death was likely something that was filmed much later, not Dany's final scenes of the show.

Also, Architectural Digest claimed that Dany's final scenes of the show were filmed in Dubrovnik, which wouldn't involve the same extras. And if that's true (which may not be the case), Dany's final scenes of the show are not death scenes, since big character death scenes would never be filmed in a public place.

IF these leaks are true, I think the death that shocked the extras could be Varys' execution not Dany's death. If the leak about Drogon taking Dany's body away and not doing anything to Jon is true, she and Jon must be alone in those scenes.

As for Brienne, one of the leaks says that after Jaime is captured Brienne tries to talk to him, but he refuses to talk to her. If this is true, then Brienne does, in fact, go south with the army or later on. This is why I think that we will know if these leaks have any credibility Sunday.

Edited May 2, 2019 by SimoneS

[ElizaD]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

If Friki is right, this could be where Tyrion's "betrayal of the Starks" comes into the picture since Dany is now no longer around and it's going to Cersei Vs Starks at WF. That is if Tyrion has orchestrated this somehow - but we only know all this later on.

I feel like this is the first time I've seen a "betrayal of the Starks" speculation that has sounded logical and big enough to warrant execution. So Tyrion wouldn't be betraying Dany directly, but he would be abandoning her allies to be slaughtered (and hurting her cause overall) if he knows Cersei sent the company to attack after the battle. Dany and Jon would be going south with Arya, Sandor and the Lannisters and she'd be fighting Cersei with her dragons in 8x05; at the same time, the Starks would be facing a desperate and unexpected fight. Maybe Brienne kills Strickland after he kills Pod? Then the survivors meet in KL, Tyrion has his trial, Cersei finally dies. I'm not ready to predict it yet, but this might be my favorite of all the ending theories I've seen - plausible but still with the huge twists of the betrayal and a second WF battle.

[Dame sans merci]

1 hour ago, Nightingale said:

Also I think BoatsexBaby made a post recently (based on sleuthing, not fleaks) that showed a picture of Lannister, Unsullied and Northern soldiers in King's Landing, no GC. I'm just surprised that they managed to film so many different action sequences in Winterfell without us knowing. It all seemed to be from 8x03, at the time. Let's just hope the lighting is better.

You've just reminded me that there was a supposed leak from somebody whose friend played a Lannister soldier. Apparently the human armies have a 'truce'. 

When I first read that post, I assumed it was because Winterfell had fallen and they fought against the army of the dead together but in light of episode three...?! 

I wonder whether this is a) the very end of the battle or b) whether the Lannister armies are turned against Cersei at some point?

Edited May 2, 2019 by Dame sans merci

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, anamika said:

I think Cersei is going to send the Golden company to attack Winterfell while the rest of gang sails to Dragonstone. It's going to be the sack of of WF part II - mimicking what happened to WF when Robb went off to war.  All the leaks were pointing to GC and AOTD attacking at the same time or the GC attacking before the AOTD and being surprised by the AOTD.

What if the GC attacks after the AOTD is defeated? We never considered this option because no one suspected the NK/AOTD would be defeated this easy in one episode. We all imagined the NK going to KL.

As you say, something should occupy the WF gang while the dragonstone gang is planning war. From the looks of it, I think even Royce and the Vale army march south which means it's going to be upto Sansa, Arya and Bran to defend it with a small army.

This could be where the scroll comes into the picture when Sansa sends a SOS for help via raven to dragonstone gang.

Could be why Sapochnik said it was one story and there's more fighting next episode and it all culminates in episode 5. I think the next episode is going to be very interesting.

Hibberd  talked about why the body count was low last episode - because they wanted more characters to die by the machinations of other characters. I predict some characters dying next episode - including Pod.

I think Brienne and Pod will stay behind with the Starks and Pod will die. Not sure if Sam is going to follow Jon around to dragon stone to nag him about the Iron Throne or stay behind with Gilly and little Sam - this could be where Gilly may die.

If Friki is right, this could be where Tyrion's "betrayal of the Starks" comes into the picture since Dany is now no longer around and it's going to Cersei Vs Starks at WF. That is if Tyrion has orchestrated this somehow - but we only know all this later on.

Not sure what Jaime is going to do now.

No, John Bradley continued filming for some time. He was there in Belfast when Emilia wrapped mid June.

lol, thanks. One of the most annoying podcasters ever. And has nothing useful to contribute despite being a book reader. I thought that maybe he would ask Hibberd about the prophecies and Ice and fire and Mel and NK, but nothing.

In other news:

https://www.vulture.com/2019/04/game-of-thrones-vladimir-furdik-night-king-interview.html

Thanks for listening to the Hibberd podcast so the rest of us don’t have to. Your sacrifice is appreciated.

I don’t buy a GC attack on Winterfell because the timing doesn’t line up. Harry Strickland’s actor was filming in May and June, when Sapochnik was doing those nonstop KL exterior shoots with Maisie and other actors, and when Sophie had pretty much already wrapped filming except for Seville. I can buy Bronn making it to Winterfell and fucking shit up: Bronn killing Pod would make a lot of sense. Maybe Bronn approaches Pod as a best bro and then shanks him. 

[Dame sans merci]

1 minute ago, Eyes High said:

Thanks for listening to the Hibberd podcast so the rest of us don’t have to. Your sacrifice is appreciated.

I don’t buy a GC attack on Winterfell because the timing doesn’t line up. Harry Strickland’s actor was filming in May and June, when Sapochnik was doing those nonstop KL exterior shoots with Maisie and other actors, and when Sophie had pretty much already wrapped filming except for Seville. I can buy Bronn making it to Winterfell and fucking shit up: Bronn killing Pod would make a lot of sense. Maybe Bronn approaches Pod as a best bro and then shanks him. 

Yeah, Bronn killing Pod is my spec here too - although i'd guess that Pod bravely jumps in the way or similar. 

[Callista]

17 hours ago, Eyes High said:

 Maybe the Dany scene is a wedding? And if so, who's getting married?

Arya and Gendry!  I wish.

[anamika]

17 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Harry Strickland’s actor was filming in May and June, when Sapochnik was doing those nonstop KL exterior shoots with Maisie and other actors, and when Sophie had pretty much already wrapped filming except for Seville.

Are we sure of this?

In this interview,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBLpSCcve48

the actor who plays him, says that he started filming from end of October and flew in and out of Belfast to film his scenes.  Over at FF, using photo metadata they figured out that the Cersei-Strickland scene in episode one was shot on November 20th, 2017.

Golden company is definitely in the KL battle. But there were also GC shields among the dead dummies in photos taken by WOMB in march supposedly from the WF battle.

Anyways we will know this Sunday.

Edited May 2, 2019 by anamika

[Bannon]

Oh, good grief, if a dragon is still flying, and the still haven't figured out that one of the best uses of a dragon is to recon the position of your enemy, that's just too stupid for words. That's even before we get to Bran's ability to warg flocks of birds all over Westeros to gather information. I've been mildly pleasantly surprised at the writing this season to date; if they revert to everybody having a sub 50 I.Q., so the Golden Company can traverse Westeros undetected, well, I'm right back to needing emergency surgery for convulsive eye-rolling!

[Eyes High]

40 minutes ago, Dame sans merci said:

Yeah, Bronn killing Pod is my spec here too - although i'd guess that Pod bravely jumps in the way or similar. 

If Brienne is injured and/or Pod dies saving Tyrion and Jaime from Bronn, Tyrion and Jaime will probably be a lot less conflicted about going after Cersei, so maybe it's not that simple, what with Hibberd's comments @anamika helpfully transcribed:

Quote

Everyone has got together and are triumphant and victorious  everyone is happy together. Then what happens? Are these relationships better and stronger for having fought together against a common enemy? Or do old rivalries and factions flourish now that there is no longer a common enemy? 

Vanquishing the AOTD turning out to have been the easy part or at least not magically fixing everything reminds me of a comment GRRM allegedly once made about not liking stories where everyone teams up Avengers-style to fight the bad guys, and of course the Scouring of the Shire for LOTR.

So going into 8x04 we have this interesting tangle of questions. What are Cersei's "plans for the Targaryen girl" that don't include assassination? Is Sansa going to get over her distrust of Dany now that Dany has helped save everyone? What's with these inscrutable stares Bran keeps giving Tyrion? What will happen with Jon and Dany's relationship? How will Sam react if Jon wants to keep his parentage secret going forward? How will everyone else learn of Jon's parentage, and how will they react? Is Cersei really pregnant? How will Jaime and Tyrion react to Dany's plans of a full-on assault of KL? Is Bronn going to inflict some serious damage on his assassination mission? Will everyone at Winterfell be safe when Dany and her forces leave, or will there be another attack? Who stays behind at Winterfell and who heads south? Are Jaime and Brienne ever going to kiss? Is the Gendrya relationship going to develop into something serious?

Edited May 2, 2019 by Eyes High

[Callista]

8 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I question the "go mad" thing.  Dany can be pretty damn destructive when she gets angry.  She is single minded about "her Kingdom" and with all the work she's put in, I don't think she will put up with anything standing in her way now that she's so close.

Madness does run in her family but in Dany's case, what is "insane" and what is Dany simply doing whatever it takes to achieve her goals?

That could be frightening enough for someone to kill her, to stop her rage.

Why kill her though? Why not simply knock her out and then imprison her?

[Callista]

11 hours ago, Umbelina said:

This one is all true so far, except perhaps about Lyanna, but she's dead, so she would?  They corrected it to say Jon kills Dany, the only thing that hasn't happened yet.

From an Emily interviews:  https://www.inverse.com/article/54030-game-of-thrones-season-8-spoilers-emilia-clarke-daenerys-ending

“She starts feeling pretty cocksure and confident, and then stuff happens,” Clarke tells BAZAAR.com of Dany’s arrival North and her first encounter with Sansa Stark (Sophie Turner), which HBO teased in early promos.

“Every single piece that I put on made sense for the scene that I was in, and made sense with the place that the character’s in at that time,” she said. “There’s a real through-line for this particular season, there’s a real arc and I feel like fans, like hardcore fans, will clock what’s happening within the reflection of the clothing.”

about the ending:  “It fucked me up,” she said then. “Knowing that is going to be a lasting flavor in someone’s mouth of what Daenerys is.”

The shocking death really seems like it could be Dany.

This "leaker"'s definition of "main" character seems to be rather broad, since he calls the 5 characters who died in the Battle of Winterfell "main characters." I don't think many of us would consider Edd, Beric, or Lyanna main characters.

So when he describes the character killed off in the scene with Jon as a "main" character, he could be referring to pretty much any of the supporting characters, really. And since he says it could have happened in Ep 5 OR 6, any one of those characters he lists as being alive in Ep 5 (Davos, Jaime, etc.) could still qualify as that character killed off in the scene with Jon.

Note also that he doesn't say that Jon kills the character--they're only in the scene together. So something/someone else could have caused that character's death.

[Riplet68]

Would it be too much to ask that Jon and Ghost actually interact?  In the funeral pic, Ghost isn’t standing in Jon’s group.

i know asking for Jon, ghost and Rhaegal together would be waaay too much, or even seeing Dany interact with Ghost.

how bout, faceless men kill Jon, then kill Dany as Jon.  Jamie kills cersei

[stagmania]

14 hours ago, glowbug said:

I would be really surprised if Brienne didn’t go South regardless of where Sansa is. We know Arya goes south because of filming spoilers and Brienne is pledged to protect her too. But more than that Brienne and Jaime’s story is not over. Whether he ultimately turns away from her and runs back to Cersei, which would be particularly unsatisfying mostly because of the implications for his book counterpart, or is truly reformed and solidifies his allegiance to her (whether it’s romantic or platonic), their relationship needs to be resolved. 

I wouldn't be surprised if we get no further resolution on their relationship. I think the knighting scene was the culmination of their relationship arc, and now the show will turn its attention to resolving Jaime and Cersei's storyline. I expect that to end tragically (and if these spoilers are remotely true, with a total regression of Jaime's character), and don't think there's likely to be space for anything else good to happen for Jaime and Brienne. 

14 hours ago, SeanC said:

Also, the idea of Bronn on a governing council is pretty silly.

The small council list is one of the main things that make me think these spoilers are fake. It reads like a list of someone's favorite characters, not a group that would conceivably rule. Tyrion's whole arc the last few seasons has been about sucking at this job, Sam is kind of useless on strategy and tactics, and Bronn is an amoral sell sword. Davos is the only name on that council that makes any kind of sense.

14 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

You can't talk about the books and then say that Dany must die. Because book!Dany doesn't want to be queen above all. Book!Dany puts off going to Westeros because she feels she has a duty in Meereen. She says a queen doesn't belong to herself, but to her people. After the 90 days ultimatum she gives to Hizdhar, she marries him. Not because she loves him, but because she feels she has to do it for peace. She'd rather be with Daario and she thinks that if he asked her to give up her crown, then she would. And she cares a great deal about the plight of the people. She goes outside the walls to take care of people who have the bloody flux.

So no, Dany must die doesn't apply.

Thanks for this reminder. It's been so long since I read the books, I forget how differently Dany is written in them. Her show portrayal is much more focused on the bombastic conqueror stuff.

12 hours ago, kellog010 said:

Why can't Dany realize the thing she was fighting for is worth giving up for the greater good and agrees to rule by council? I would believe that before I believe after fighting the AOTD she goes mad. I would be sorely disappointed if that is her end. 

I agree that Dany breaking the wheel would be a much more satisfying ending to her story for the last eight years. When you go back and rewatch seasons 3 and 4 and look at the way they wrote her then, it's bonkers to think that they were steering toward her going crazy and being killed by Jon. Part of me is hoping that all the Mad Queen teases are just a big red herring.

10 hours ago, magdalene said:

If Dany is killed off - and I am not convinced of that - than that's all on GRRM.  Benioff and Weiss wouldn't change something that big.

People keep saying this and I don't agree at all. It's on D&D - it's their responsibility to tell the story adequately so that the ending makes sense, or change the ending to fit the story they have actually told. They can't just say "oh well GRRM says this happens so we'll tack it on even though it doesn't fit the show version of the characters" and call that an excuse.

5 hours ago, anamika said:

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/ews-game-of-thrones-weekly/e/60343835?autoplay=true

So I listened to Hibberd’s podcast with that annoying guy to listen to his thoughts on the episode considering Hibberd knows something of the ending and knows D&D. I thought maybe he would say something about the show killing off it’s primary antagonist half way through. Seems like the reason was that D&D just thought that having the latter half of the show focussed on Cersei was more interesting and unexpected/surprising.

And this right here is why I'm never confident about the story they're telling. Every interview with and about D&D indicates that their primary focus is shocking the audience - they don't care if their plot machinations make any narrative sense or undercut characterization. They ignored the entire theme of the story and the message they've been sending to the audience for eight years because they thought it would be more surprising to quickly dispatch the existential threat to humanity and end on Cersei. 

[SeanC]

Winterfell being the subject of a surprise attack despite having an omniscient seer in residence would be just about the dumbest plot twist on the show yet.

[Eyes High]

9 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I question the "go mad" thing.  Dany can be pretty damn destructive when she gets angry.  She is single minded about "her Kingdom" and with all the work she's put in, I don't think she will put up with anything standing in her way now that she's so close.

Madness does run in her family but in Dany's case, what is "insane" and what is Dany simply doing whatever it takes to achieve her goals?

The whole madness thing is not an issue, I don't think. Book Dany is not mad. The writers have said that TV Dany is not mad, and she hasn't shown any signs of madness, either.

However, the show is full of characters who are not at all mad but who have done unspeakable things to obtain and preserve power. Tywin Lannister wasn't mad when he obliterated the Reynes and the Tarbecks, women and children included. Cersei wasn't mad when she blew up the Sept and all the innocent people inside. Stannis wasn't mad when he ordered his daughter's death. They were deliberate power moves done in service of a specific goal. If Dany deliberately unleashes Drogon on KL, it won't be because she's mad, it will be because she's determined to achieve her goal regardless of the collateral damage she will inflict, but it won't matter; it will be an atrocity showing she's unfit to rule either way.

That said, assuming Drogon does burn KL, we don't know the circumstances. Maybe Dany is injured or something and Drogon goes berserk and burns the fuck out of KL. 

28 minutes ago, stagmania said:

I wouldn't be surprised if we get no further resolution on their relationship. I think the knighting scene was the culmination of their relationship arc

Gwendoline did talk about their "growing" relationship in one of the 8x02 BTS videos, but Cogman made that comment about Theon and Sansa having a long way to go after 8x02, one episode before killing Theon off, so there is that.

I don't think there could be any scene more romantic than Jaime knighting Brienne, personally. A consummation of feelings almost seems superfluous after that. And no hate to Jaime/Brienne shippers, but I have a hard time imagining Jaime and Brienne even kissing. It just seems weird to me, I dunno, maybe because Brienne is such a buttoned-up, awkward sort of character (as opposed to Gwendoline, who seems like a delight). Gwendoline also talked in a recent interview about how Brienne's sexuality is interesting and she's not this typical TV female character who desperately needs her love interest to kiss her, want her, have sex with her, etc. On the other hand, Gwendoline said she went "bright red in the face" when reading the scripts, so who knows?

Looking back at Sansa and Tyrion's scene, assuming Tyrion does die, their little moment could be the writers' way of giving Sansa/Tyrion closure as a ship just like Jaime/Brienne in 8x02 (and like Theon/Sansa in 8x02 if you ship it). That might also explain why they didn't talk about it very much in the BTS videos, since "We wanted them to have one last nice moment before Tyrion betrays the fuck out of the Starks" isn't exactly the sort of thing you announce.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Eyes High

[Callista]

42 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

So going into 8x04 we have this interesting tangle of questions. What are Cersei's "plans for the Targaryen girl" that don't include assassination? Is Sansa going to get over her distrust of Dany now that Dany has helped save everyone? What's with these inscrutable stares Bran keeps giving Tyrion? What will happen with Jon and Dany's relationship? How will Sam react if Jon wants to keep his parentage secret going forward? How will everyone else learn of Jon's parentage, and how will they react? Is Cersei really pregnant? How will Jaime and Tyrion react to Dany's plans of a full-on assault of KL? Is Bronn going to inflict some serious damage on his assassination mission? Will everyone at Winterfell be safe when Dany and her forces leave, or will there be another attack? Who stays behind at Winterfell and who heads south? Are Jaime and Brienne ever going to kiss? Is the Gendrya relationship going to develop into something serious?

Another question that I'm also wondering about: what did Cersei mean when she said back in Season 7 that she would like the Golden Company to recover some things that belong to her? 

[Bannon]

45 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Winterfell being the subject of a surprise attack despite having an omniscient seer in residence would be just about the dumbest plot twist on the show yet.

If they go that route, after what they have been doing with Bronn since the S1E2, all those years ago, it's just the most unforgivably lazy writing imaginable.

[anamika]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

Winterfell being the subject of a surprise attack despite having an omniscient seer in residence would be just about the dumbest plot twist on the show yet.

I am really hoping here that there's more to Bran than what the show has given us so far. The actor who plays the NK, Furdik has given some answers that make it seem like there's maybe something more, but with the way D&D write, it's probably futile to hope for this.

Like what's the idea behind Bran telling Jon/Dany that he does not know if dragonfire can kill the NK, but gives Arya the dagger a season ago because he knows that she is going to use it kill the NK? How is it possible he knows one but not the other?

I still don't understand why the NK waited all these 8000 years till now to kill Bran? What is Bran going to do now that the NK wanted to stop? Why does the NK want to kill wikipedia?

What did Bran actually do during the battle? He warged some ravens to near the NK and then?

Even if Cersei is planning a surprise attack, Bran is not going to warn them, even if he knows. That's pretty much what Bran has been doing for two seasons now.

Edited May 2, 2019 by anamika

[YaddaYadda]

6 minutes ago, anamika said:

What did Bran actually do during the battle? He warged some ravens to near the NK and then?

Well, if he knew that Arya was going to be the one to deliver the death blow and everything indicates that he did, then he let thousands of people die for absolutely nothing.

That in my book makes him pretty evil and I don't care what his motivation is which is not like to be fleshed out anyway.

This whole idea that Bran would sit at the head of some sort of a council in the state he's in will make everything even more stupid.

[Bannon]

12 minutes ago, anamika said:

I am really hoping here that there's more to Bran than what the show has given us so far. The actor who plays the NK, Furdik has given some answers that make it seem like there's maybe something more, but with the way D&D write, it's probably futile to hope for this.

Like what's the idea behind Bran telling Jon/Dany that he does not know if dragonfire can kill the NK, but gives Arya the dagger a season ago because he knows that she is going to use it kill the NK? How is it possible he knows one but not the other?

I still don't understand why the NK waited all these 8000 years till now to kill Bran? What is Bran going to do now that the NK wanted to stop? Why does the NK want to kill wikipedia?

What did Bran actually do during the battle? He warged some ravens to near the NK and then?

Even if Cersei is planning a surprise attack, Bran is not going to warn them, even if he knows. That's pretty much what Bran has been doing for two seasons now.

Well, he did keep Jon & Co. in the loop with regard to the NK's movements, and that he had a zombie dragon. Which is why it would be so stupidly lazy to write as if he wouldn't locate the G.C. as soon as the battle with the NK was over. What else does he have for a task? Burying bodies? Cleaning up the mess?

[SeanC]

54 minutes ago, Callista said:

Another question that I'm also wondering about: what did Cersei mean when she said back in Season 7 that she would like the Golden Company to recover some things that belong to her? 

The Seven Kingdoms.  That’s the obvious context.