Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Eyes High]

Even assuming that these leaks are bullshit, we know that KL gets roasted by dragonfire judging from the type of burns we saw on the KL exterior set (from the top, as opposed to wildfire burns which would be from the bottom), and we now know that it ain't Viserion dragonfire...so unless the dragons go berserk, it is all but confirmed that Dany unleashes Drogon on KL, and the implications of that are really not good.

After 8x03, and the shot of Dany in 8x04 flanked by Missandei and Varys (but not Tyrion), it seems more likely that Tyrion crosses over to Team Stark, which is pretty funny after all the speculation that he already betrayed or was going to betray Dany for Team Lannister.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Eyes High

[GraceK]

Just now, Eyes High said:

Even assuming that these leaks are bullshit, we know that KL gets roasted by dragonfire judging from the type of burns we saw on the set (as opposed to wildfire), and we now know that it ain't Viserion dragonfire...so unless the dragons go berserk, it is all but confirmed that Dany unleashes Drogon on KL, and the implications of that are really not good.

Maybe she has too. She’s dealing with a mad woman. And maybe they evacuate the people. We don’t know. Context is everything. 

Also, didn’t Emelia say she shot fake scenes? It’s possible her “ death scene “ was one of them and  that’s the one that leaked.

[SimoneS]

7 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

After 8x03, and the shot of Dany in 8x04 flanked by Missandei and Varys (but not Tyrion), it seems more likely that Tyrion crosses over to Team Stark, which is pretty funny after all the speculation that he already betrayed or was going to betray Dany for Team Lannister.

But think of how many times many of us posted, after Friki's "leak,"that it was more believable that Tyrion betrays Dany than the Starks,. At least, this version of Tyrion's betrayal is logical.

Edited April 30, 2019 by SimoneS

[Minneapple]

26 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

IF these leaks are true:

I HATE that Missandei is captured and executed. Not just because I like her, but for one of the only two Black characters to die, especially like that because will set off an ugly outcry on social media and elsewhere about race/ethnicity.

The entire Dothraki horde was slaughtered and nobody cared. I would not expect a social media outcry about Missandei. How about an outcry first about how the two black characters were all but ignored in the first two episodes and Missandei who is supposedly Dany's BFF and one of her top advisers hasn't even had a scene with Dany. 

Racism on TV is usually more subtle and more about tokenism than it is outright racism. People don't expect much from this show because it has a horrendous history of the way it treats characters of color.

[MarySNJ]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

But think of how many times many of us posted, after Friki's "leak,"that it was more believable that Tyrion betrays Dany than the Starks,. At least, this version of Tyrion's betrayal is logical.

Yes I can believe that if forced to choose between his loyalties- Daenerys or Jaime, he would choose Jaime. 

I’ve been wondering what Jaime’s going to do now that the AOtD have been destroyed. He went to Winterfell to fight for the living, not to pledge fealty to Dany. 

Still, a lot of these leaks sound awful and I hope they’re fake. If that's the ending and it mirrors the ending is that’s basically what GRRM has planned, then I can skip the last 2 books if he ever gets around to finishing them. Those books are grim enough as it is and I don’t think I can handle a tragic ending for the heroes.

Edited April 30, 2019 by MarySNJ
Spelling/punctuation

[domina89]

1 hour ago, John Potts said:

On the "Jon kneels to Cersei", (aside from the fact it could just be a random shot that wasn't actually filmed), I did wonder if it might be Arya wearing Jon's face. Cersei might believe Jon is too honourable to try to assassinate her, but Arya certainly isn't. If Arya's wearing Jon's face that would suggest he was dead, although there was that occasion when Jaquen wore Arya's face, so it might not necessarily be the case.

Maybe he favours the male line (Jon/Aegon) over the female (Danny)? Traditionally, only males could sit on the Iron Throne, after all.

What puzzles me is that the photos we saw clearly showed Jon with his old hairstyle- not the man bun.  So were the scenes faked?  Or we are supposed to think it's a "different" Jon?

28 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

The whole Dany goes nuts and Jon has to kill her is such nonsense. All of a sudden, girlfriend is going to go cray-cray? Really?

Could this be Bran's influence, though?  There are many who suspect Bran may have gone back in time and created the madness in Aerys.  If true, could he not do that to Dany as well?  It would be awful but we don't really know the full extent of his power.

[GraceK]

Also, you realize that those leaks make the Lannister’s go out romantically dying a tragic death in each other’s arms, Tyrion heroically trying to saving his evil despotic sister , ending up ruling the 7k in council while Jon is isolated forever after a murdering a woman and Dany is murdered after being a hero for 8 years and getting everything stripped away from her? That’s the bittersweet ending GRRM  envisioned? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Edited April 30, 2019 by GraceK

[nikma]

It's still better than Jon and Dany killing Cersei and ruling together IMO

[anamika]

44 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

It does sound like the Tyrion's "divided loyalties" that we have heard about. As long as Jaime and Tyrion believes that Cersei is pregnant, they will go to hilt to save her.

I am not blaming D&D though. This is Martin's story and his ending. He has every right to end his story how he wants. 

It's Martin's ending for the  characters, but it's no longer Martin's story. It's D&D's. Martin's story is first and foremost fantasy - A Song of Ice and Fire. He's build a rich mythology for this.  As we just saw, D&D's story is a game of thrones.

Martin's story is about how families squabble and ignore this existential threat that threatens them all and how they have to rise above it. D&D's story is that Cersei was right and smart all along and she made the right decision to not unite against the WW because now Dany has lost most of her forces defeating the NK and has to fight for the Iron Throne from a disadvantage. D&D's moral of the story is that it's better and smarter to squabble for the Iron Throne

GRRM : “When dead men come hunting in the night, do you think it matters who sits the Iron Throne?”
D&D: The last three episodes of the series will be dedicated to who sits on the iron throne. 

The journey matters. How the characters get there matter.  Dany suddenly deciding to turn bad and mad in 3 episodes is nonsensical - as nonsensical as the NK being vanquished in one episode.

So hopefully these leaks are wrong and I am also hoping that there's more to this NK business in terms of Bran Stark - that this story is not done and Bran will be the one to watch.

Other things to consider. Arya just killed the NK - epic and amazing for the character. A truly heroic moment and yet, the story board D&D gave her of what they thought was her best scene on the show was her last scene on the show - which is supposedly very spoilery. I doubt it's just Arya going away.

Sophie talked about Sansa making decisions that threatens to split her family. Nothing about her in these leaks?

I think there will be more to this than just standard Lannisters Vs Dany.

18 minutes ago, domina89 said:

Could this be Bran's influence, though?  There are many who suspect Bran may have gone back in time and created the madness in Aerys.  If true, could he not do that to Dany as well?  It would be awful but we don't really know the full extent of his power.

I think this may very well be possible.

Edited April 30, 2019 by anamika

[Eyes High]

16 minutes ago, anamika said:

Sophie talked about Sansa making decisions that threatens to split her family. Nothing about her in these leaks?

I think the leaker also posted on another account under a throwaway (not sure if it's the same leaker) that Sansa and Tyrion scheme together against Dany, that Sansa strings Tyrion along with promises of ruling together and then doublecrosses him to claim it all. (On the other hand, I thought this leaker said that Tyrion ends up on Bran's council, so...?) There's something important for the plot about that Sansa/Tyrion moment in the crypts, so who knows? I don't think Sansa was playing Tyrion with her talk about his divided loyalties and dangling their marriage as a carrot to get Tyrion to switch sides, but you never know.

Quote

I think there will be more to this than just standard Lannisters Vs Dany.

I agree. That's thin gruel for three remaining supersized episodes. And now that we know that a non-Viserion dragon burns the fuck out of KL, something Dany was warned against doing by Tyrion and Jon lest it make her look like a tyrant, it's not looking great for Dany.

Judging from the 8x04 promo, Dany's going to get at least three different costumes, two of which are new:

1. The grey outfit with grey/red fur trim from 8x02 (when she gives a speech with Varys and Missandei close by).

2. The suede grey outfit from the EW photoshoot and a different hairstyle (when she's with Drogon in a scene that also seems to have been filmed in Iceland).

3. A red outfit that looks like a red version of the black/grey outfits she wore in S7 (when she's giving a toast in the great hall at Winterfell and being cheered).

Sansa is also wearing two new gowns, judging from the trailer shots, and Cersei is wearing the red velvet gown from the EW photoshoot. I guess Michele Clapton is going all out.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Eyes High

[DeccaMitford]

I was not liking this leak but willing to go along with it being possible until this bit:

Quote

Bran oversees his council of Tyrion, Davos, Sam, and Bronn.

Bronn is on the ruling council? If Dany is killing all of Cersei's people in King's Landing, why wouldn't Bronn die too? And what happened to him being paid to kill Jaimie and Tyrion?

Dumber things have happened on this show, but this smacks of the poster realizing he forgot to give Bronn a fate and so just stuck him in there at the end.

[anamika]

19 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

And now that we know that a non-Viserion dragon burns the fuck out of KL, something Dany was warned against doing by Tyrion and Jon lest it make her look like a tyrant, it's not looking great for Dany.

Well, the person who sees the shadow of a dragon flying over KL in a vision - something that D&D wanted kept in there because it was important - was Bran Stark. He is not seeing the dragon, but seeing the shadow of a dragon below from above.

Bran could always warg into a dragon as well. So it does not have to be 100% Dany. There's another option for who burns down KL with a dragon!

Of the two characters, Dany and Bran - it's Bran who is acting more shady these days.

But Bran heading up the council in these leaks does line up with all those sudden bets after March about him sitting on the Iron Throne.

Edited April 30, 2019 by anamika

[Minneapple]

13 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I think the leaker also posted on another account under a throwaway (not sure if it's the same leaker) that Sansa and Tyrion scheme together against Dany, that Sansa strings Tyrion along with promises of ruling together and then doublecrosses him to claim it all. (On the other hand, I thought this leaker said that Tyrion ends up on Bran's council, so...?) There's something important for the plot about that Sansa/Tyrion moment in the crypts, so who knows? I don't think Sansa was playing Tyrion with her talk about his divided loyalties and dangling their marriage as a carrot to get Tyrion to switch sides, but you never know.

Huh. Sansa double-crossing Tyrion would actually make her quite interesting to me. 

For anyone bitching if Tyrion gets a happy ending..REMEMBER THAT HE IS GRRM'S AVATAR. Either he will get some heroic tragic ending, or he'll get a heroic happy ending. And remember we were all questioning how he could betray the Starks. Well, maybe that leak wasn't true.

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I am not blaming D&D though. This is Martin's story and his ending. He has every right to end his story how he wants. 

Yup. It's his story and he will tell it the way he sees fit. Or well, he'll have D&D tell it. Maybe not the way he wanted, but he got money from HBO so I'm sure he sleeps just fine at night.

[GraceK]

Here’s the thing though about these links. If Cersei manages to behead and kidnap Missandei, and Eurons fleet is so powerful it can take out a dragon, then it seems that Euron and Cersei are the ones who need to be put down and stopped because they are despotic leaders of Kings Landing.  Your telling me that Sansa and Arya are totally cool with that? They wouldn’t be on board with Danys kill   Cersei plan? Arya still has her on her list. This whole team up against Dany to save Cersei's life from Danys cruelty sounds ridiculous. Especially if Jaime betrays the North for Cersei. Arya bakes the Freys into pies for god sakes and eliminated their house. This is war, Dany going to war with Cersei and Euron sounds completely reasonable, and if one Dragon was killed then clearly they are formidable enough that Dany can’t pull punches. How does it make her a tyrant to unseat them from power? It doesn’t justify Jon Snow on any level murdering  her in cold blood just because Tyrion doesn’t want his evil sister to die and idiot brother to suffer .

so yeah, I call bullshit, especially as they have played up Jon riding Rhaegal these past few episodes and seeing to bond with him. 

[LadyPenelope]

There are parts of this I like, but I’m still not buying it.

Jon going back to the Wall actually seems plausible to me. In the books there is no Night King so the WW could well be a threat that appears ongoing. Jon going back to rebuild the wall and protect the living wouldn’t be outrageous, and there is certainly precedent for a Targaryen refusing the throne to serve with the NW. The last lines on the show being “I am the sword in the darkness, I am the watcher on the wall...” would actually be quite fitting. Tyrion freeing Jaime to save him from execution would also be appropriate.

However. I find Bran as king completely implausible. And I would hate for Dany to die, after all those people have laid down their lives to bring her to Westeros and make her queen. I’m assuming that if Jon did kill her it wouldn’t be for trying to kill Lannisters but because there is a lot of collateral damage or something, but I still find it hard to believe. 

Is there any evidence for the accuracy of these spoilers?

[Chaser]

I remember reading articles a couple seasons ago about the possibility of Dany becoming the finale villain. It's been an idea tossed around with my general audience friends for awhile. It kind of surprises me that so many people see these elements coming out of nowhere. 

[SimoneS]

51 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Also, you realize that those leaks make the Lannister’s go out romantically dying a tragic death in each other’s arms, Tyrion heroically trying to saving his evil despotic sister , ending up ruling the 7k in council while Jon is isolated forever after a murdering a woman and Dany is murdered after being a hero for 8 years and getting everything stripped away from her? That’s the bittersweet ending GRRM  envisioned? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Tyrion doesn't die according to the second leaker. He is on the ruling council in the end.

47 minutes ago, anamika said:

I doubt it's just Arya going away.

Maybe she and Gendry go away together? But Maisie did say that Arya was alone in her final scene, but of course, she could have been lying.

[SimoneS]

13 minutes ago, LadyPenelope said:

Is there any evidence for the accuracy of these spoilers?

No hard evidence, but the first leaker got Viserion's neck injury correct and it was posted months ago. The other one feels credible given the first one.

Edited April 30, 2019 by SimoneS

[Minneapple]

11 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I remember reading articles a couple seasons ago about the possibility of Dany becoming the finale villain. It's been an idea tossed around with my general audience friends for awhile. It kind of surprises me that so many people see these elements coming out of nowhere. 

I know. It's been a possibility for awhile. It's not far out of the realm of TV writing. Jon killing Dany is really not too different from Buffy killing Angel. 

[domina89]

37 minutes ago, anamika said:

Of the two characters, Dany and Bran - it's Bran who is acting more shady these days.

But Bran heading up the council in these leaks does line up with all those sudden bets after March about him sitting on the Iron Throne

Wouldn't it be a kicker if we find out Bran has been the villain all along causing all this chaos and the NK was actually the hero who was trying to stop him?  That would blow everyone's mind...

[Callista]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I found a leak on FF from nine months ago. It sounds credible to me given the leak about Jon killing Dany. The person claimed to have a friend who worked on the production crew. People dismissed it immediately because it sounded ridiculous at time, but he got the bit about Viserion right even though he was wrong about Jon killing him. 

So we are supposed to find this "leaker" credible because...he was right about the part with the undead dragon? And since he says that Jon kills Dany, we're now supposed to believe every single leak that says this?  Even if we're not yet 100% sure that Jon kills Dany?

Edited April 30, 2019 by Callista

[Eyes High]

18 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Maybe she and Gendry go away together? But Maisie did say that Arya was alone in her final scene, but of course, she could have been lying.

Maisie was talking about the last scene she filmed as Arya (in July), which was probably a scene from 8x05 since Sapochnik wrapped on S8 the following week, not Arya's last scene of the show.

Going back to the S8 storyboard gifts that we know about, I think we can now guess at three of them:

1. Maisie's big spoiler storyboard gift must have been Arya killing the NK.

2. Gwendoline's was probably Brienne being knighted in 8x02.

3. And Richard Dormer's was Beric's last scene, so Beric's death in 8x03.

Rory McCann said his S8 storyboard gift was a "small" scene, which in light of what we've seen to date is either his 8x02 scene with Arya or, assuming he was joking around, was Cleganebowl.

Sophie Turner's S8 storyboard gift was Sansa's last scene, so we still have to wait for that one.

And we have no idea about Kit, Emilia or Peter's gift storyboards.

[Morrigan2575]

I find some of these suspect, if this leaker isn't totally fake maybe it's a mix of real and alternate scenes filmed?

I can buy Cersei and Jamie dying together.  I can even buy Jon saying fuck it all and going North of the Wall to live in peace with the Free Folk.  I don't see why he'd go back to the Night Watch...that doesn't even exist and ended up killing/betraying him. 

I don't see how Bran ends up on the Throne when he's repeatedly said he's not a man/person/Stark he's the 3ER and his role is to record history not direct it.

Dany going crazy is possible but, especially if she loses all the people/things she loves.  Jorah is already dead, if she loses another Dragon and Missandrei plus if Tyrion and Jon turn away from her.  I can MAYBE see it but, they'd need to set something up in 804.

I do think Sansa will end up Queen in the North and, I can even buy a small council with rulers from the 7 kingdoms (or what's left of them) with no actual King/Queen sitting on the Iron Throne ruling over all Kingdoms.  However, i don't think Sansa would betray or string along Tyrion, for one she flat out told him in 803 it wouldn't work between them...not exactly stringing him along.  That to me sounds like just more Sansa-bashing.

I also don't buy that other spoiler about Jon "sees" Arya, like really "sees" her, which seemed to imply a romantic/sexual sense...unless i read it wrong.  They've been pretty hardcore with Arya/Gendry this season, flirting in 801, sex in 802 and something in 804 so i don't think there's like some Jon/Arya ending there.

[Spartan Girl]

These leaks sound like bullshit.  We've had too many bullshit ones this year already...

God, sometimes I wish this was a Netflix show, then we'd KNOW already!

[YaddaYadda]

41 minutes ago, LadyPenelope said:

Jon going back to the Wall actually seems plausible to me. In the books there is no Night King so the WW could well be a threat that appears ongoing. Jon going back to rebuild the wall and protect the living wouldn’t be outrageous, and there is certainly precedent for a Targaryen refusing the throne to serve with the NW. The last lines on the show being “I am the sword in the darkness, I am the watcher on the wall...” would actually be quite fitting. Tyrion freeing Jaime to save him from execution would also be appropriate.

Does it really make sense for the show to send Jon back to the Wall after they've done away with the big bad? The show gave the Great Other a face and they did away with that face.

Unless D&D have some other twist planned with the NK, then that part of the story is over and done with and Jon retreating to the Wall would be him choosing to live as a recluse, not as someone who is renewing his vows to protect the realms of men.

The other thing that bugs big time is that the Long Night was experienced only at winterfell and north of it, so you know, no one has seen or experienced what that part of the world has just experienced. So you know, when the archmaesters at the Citadel are making fun of Bran's letters about an army of the dead, they are 100% justified.

Edited April 30, 2019 by YaddaYadda

[Eyes High]

15 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

However, i don't think Sansa would betray or string along Tyrion, for one she flat out told him in 803 it wouldn't work between them...not exactly stringing him along.  That to me sounds like just more Sansa-bashing.

I'll admit that it doesn't make much sense to me, either. Tyrion was the one who brought up the marriage, anyway, not Sansa. Sansa has never tried to work Tyrion or feign emotions that she doesn't feel; she has always been very blunt with him on the show. She could have attempted a charm offensive in 8x01 with Tyrion as she did with Dany in 8x02, but she was pissed at him and let him know. And in 8x03, when Sansa came down to the crypts, she initially tried to keep a poker face for everyone else, but when Tyrion gave her a look, she couldn't keep up the facade and her face dropped, letting him know how bad the situation really was.

We really didn't see much in the 8x04 promo. A lot can happen in 78 minutes or whatever it amounts to in the end.

Jon going off to live as a recluse after Dany's death has been a fan theory for years. If someone's going to be the Frodo of the story, Jon could be as good a candidate as anyone.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Eyes High

[WindyNights]

5 hours ago, anamika said:

It would have been interesting for Bran and red priestess Melisandre to meet before she walked off into the snow and died.

In the books, she sees Bloodraven in the flames and thinks of him as the Great Other - the enemy of the Lord of Light. Of course Mel has a tendency to interpret everything wrongly.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Great_Other

This is interesting but I don't know if the show will deal with this in any meaningful way. Currently the Lord of Light is winning as the most useful God. Mel basically tells Arya to go kill the Night King. Meanwhile the Old Gods are stuck with Bran and his idiotic riddles - here Arya, I gave you this dagger a season ago for this purpose, but I am not going to tell you.

I'm honestly pretty sure that the Lord of Light and Bran are the same person at this point 

[GraceK]

Really I feel like every week we go through some new version of Dany goes evil . Now it’s Jon will put her down like a rabid dog. Honestly, I find it disgusting that it’s the traditional , feminine Sansa that manages to always survive and rule in all of these fake leaks . It’s not enough that we have one , proven evil queen, but we have to shoehorn in Dany too even though she has proven herself over numerous times. And since she has, the only way to find a way to justify her fall to darkness is to create more and more outlandish heartbreaking tragedies for her to go through to make her insane. Now Missendai has to be sacrificed .🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄 No one thinks this reeks of misogyny? And I’m the last one to scream sexism because I hate when people do that. But really.  These leaks insult Sansa too because manipulating Tyrion for power is more stereotypical female character traits. This is like a checklist of fantasy female character tropes.

Edited April 30, 2019 by GraceK

[nikma]

Not everything bad happening to female characters is misogyny.

There is a reason why Dany becoming "mad" was theory in books and the show for years. There are hints about this.

[GraceK]

16 minutes ago, nikma said:

Not everything bad happening to female characters is misogyny.

There is a reason why Dany becoming "mad" was theory in books and the show for years. There are hints about this.

Not everything no. I never said that. And plenty of bad shit had happened to everyone, including Dany and I don’t scream misogyny. But if Dany hasn’t been “mad” for 8 years. She’s not irrational. That has never held up. People only accuse her of it because of who her father was, but she is actually not mad. BookDany is actually a lot less fire and blood than her show counterpart and a lot of her wise decisions and battle strategies were taken away and given to the male advisors in the show actually.  And people forget that Jon Snow is the Mad Kings grandson and no one ever throws that accusation at him in theories. She has done more to help people and has been more self sacrificing than she has ever been “ mad queen “. 

The only self serving thing she has ever done is go after the throne and people act like it’s the worst thing in the world. Why? At least she intends to be a well intentioned ruler. She’s worked for it and in the meantime, she has freed slaves, saved our hero’s, helped end the Long night, made many sacrifices and done some good. Meanwhile the hell bitch in Kings Landing and the other contenders have raped, tortured, burned their daughter alive, etc. Yet every year, then every week, a new “ leak” comes out where she either going mad queen, or killed and strung up by Euron, or someone betrays her, and now it’s she goes insane and Jon Snow  stabs her to death. There seems to be a gleeful willingness to tear her down and see her die. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by GraceK

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, LadyPenelope said:

Tyrion freeing Jaime to save him from execution would also be appropriate.

Saving him from execution or a life in prison I would buy, especially since Dany and/or the Starks should toss him into a dungeon right now.  Sure, they needed everyone they had so he got to run around freely while the NK was active.  That's finished (good job Arya!) and he fought bravely so that should spare him a beheading/hanging/roasting.  However, they'd be fools to trust him now - he only betrayed Cersei to fight the dead, not because he suddenly decided she shouldn't be on the throne.  Maybe give him an upgrade from what he had in S2 but don't treat him like your new best buddy.

[aprilbabe]

It’s not just the Dany part of the leak that sucks the whole thing does. And if it’s true I get the actors reaction when asked about the end. They know people (both Jon and dany fans) are gonna go ape shit. It sucks for both character.

Also that leak says Drogon takes her away. Away how. On dragon back? She’s dead she’d fall off. In his mouth like dogs carry their pups? And takes her where?

[GraceK]

Just now, cambridgeguy said:

Saving him from execution or a life in prison I would buy, especially since Dany and/or the Starks should toss him into a dungeon right now.  Sure, they needed everyone they had so he got to run around freely while the NK was active.  That's finished (good job Arya!) and he fought bravely so that should spare him a beheading/hanging/roasting.  However, they'd be fools to trust him now - he only betrayed Cersei to fight the dead, not because he suddenly decided she shouldn't be on the throne.  Maybe give him an upgrade from what he had in S2 but don't treat him like your new best buddy.

Exactly. I see Jaime going back If they go to war against Cersei because she’s pregnant and that’s his baby. There’s no way in hell Jaime is gonna let his child die. And that’s where I think the conflict comes in, because Jaime never pledged to Daenarys, he pledged to fight the dead to save his child, and in interviews NCW said he character still loves Cersei and that he’s tied to her always.

[Oscirus]

That latest batch seems like bad fanfic at best.

Bran didn't even want Winterfell when Sansa gave it to him, why would he want the seven kingdoms?

While I have no proof of it, but seems that Tyrion would've learned about Jon's lineage during their talk, not from Sansa.

And as for Sansa stringing along Tyrion? Power is not what Tyrion wants, it's never what he wanted so why would his motives change in the last 3 episodes?

[GraceK]

5 minutes ago, aprilbabe said:

It’s not just the Dany part of the leak that sucks the whole thing does. And if it’s true I get the actors reaction when asked about the end. They know people (both Jon and dany fans) are gonna go ape shit. It sucks for both character.

Also that leak says Drogon takes her away. Away how. On dragon back? She’s dead she’d fall off. In his mouth like dogs carry their pups? And takes her where?

And Drogon would go balls to the wall INSANE if Jon killed her. If he’s around and sees her dead, that’s it for Westeros. Now you have a dragon with no mother. He’s not carrying her away, he’s roasting Jon and everything in sight. Nothing in that leak makes sense . Like, he carries her away and then what? He’s just roaming around free?

Edited April 30, 2019 by GraceK

[blixie]

Quote

 I did wonder if it might be Arya wearing Jon's face.

I'd love this but it'd be pretty wild to let Arya off both big bads. 

[Morrigan2575]

37 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Jon going off to live as a recluse after Dany's death has been a fan theory for years. If someone's going to be the Frodo of the story, Jon could be as good a candidate as anyone.

which makes me wonder if the leak is more fleak based on fan spec.  At this point i'm just going to wait and see what happens in 804.  the show hasn't been subtle with much.  

39 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I'll admit that it doesn't make much sense to me, either. Tyrion was the one who brought up the marriage, anyway, not Sansa. Sansa has never tried to work Tyrion or feign emotions that she doesn't feel; she has always been very blunt with him on the show. She could have attempted a charm offensive in 8x01 with Tyrion as she did with Dany in 8x02, but she was pissed at him and let him know. And in 8x03, when Sansa came down to the crypts, she initially tried to keep a poker face for everyone else, but when Tyrion gave her a look, she couldn't keep up the facade and her face dropped, letting him know how bad the situation really was.

there were a few things in that crypt scene that make me question what the hell is going on with Sansa/Tyrion.  I can't tell if it was just acting choices on Dinklage's part or something being hinted at.  There were the obvious moments, Tyrion brought up their marriage (again), the hand kissing, before going to face the Wights.  There was one thing that i might have imagined which was when Tyrion was talking about going up there to fight, he was arguing with Varys but, kept turning to look at Sansa, almost felt like he was posturing to get her attention.  Although, it could have been that Sansa and Varys were the only two in the crypt that were at the Battle of Blackwater so he could have just been trying to get her to take his side.

The other thing that confuses the hell out of me about Tyrion is the looks repeatedly exchanged between him and Bran.  Something happened in that Tyrion/Bran talk that we didn't see.  It will most likely be revealed in a flashback after whatever is supposed to happen, happens but, i don't know what the hell it means?  

[WindyNights]

4 hours ago, Jextella said:

I would also like to know "Why Bran?".   What are the rules...what's required to become a 3ER, e.g. lineage, unique skills, geography, etc.

Explained in the books. 

1 in 1,000 people is born warg. 

And only one in 1,000 wargs is born a greenseer. 

And Bran is an exceptionally powerful greenseer. It's noted even within the show that Bran is the first person to control a human being.

Its like having the Force and Bran is Anakin Skywalker.

[MarySNJ]

10 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

That latest batch seems like bad fanfic at best.

Bran didn't even want Winterfell when Sansa gave it to him, why would he want the seven kingdoms?

While I have no proof of it, but seems that Tyrion would've learned about Jon's lineage during their talk, not from Sansa.

And as for Sansa stringing along Tyrion? Power is not what Tyrion wants, it's never what he wanted so why would his motives change in the last 3 episodes?

I agree that it sounds like bad fan fiction. But given D&D’s recent comments about not wanting the predictable I could see them turning the heroes into villains and murderers and giving the villain a tragically romantic death in her brother/lover/baby daddy’s arms because it will shock people. I hope I’m wrong. 

All that said, I think Tyrion would like power. I think he did want to be the Lord of Casterly Rock and/or the North through marriage to Sansa. 

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

However, i don't think Sansa would betray or string along Tyrion, for one she flat out told him in 803 it wouldn't work between them...not exactly stringing him along.  That to me sounds like just more Sansa-bashing.

I also don't buy that other spoiler about Jon "sees" Arya, like really "sees" her, which seemed to imply a romantic/sexual sense...unless i read it wrong.  They've been pretty hardcore with Arya/Gendry this season, flirting in 801, sex in 802 and something in 804 so i don't think there's like some Jon/Arya ending there.

The leaker said that someone added the info about Sansa stringing along Tyrion and taking power for herself. He didn't write that. 

I think Jon "really sees" Arya means that Jon sees that she is really is a dangerous assassin, not romantically.

Edited April 30, 2019 by SimoneS

[Callista]

9 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

I agree that it sounds like bad fan fiction. But given D&D’s recent comments about not wanting the predictable I could see them turning the heroes into villains and murderers and giving the villain a tragically romantic death in her brother/lover/baby daddy’s arms because it will shock people. I hope I’m wrong. 

All that said, I think Tyrion would like power. I think he did want to be the Lord of Casterly Rock and/or the North through marriage to Sansa. 

Just because D&D want things to be unpredictable doesn't mean they would write everything to be unpredictable in a *bad* way--which is what these supposed leaks are showing. Arya killing the Night King, for instance, was unpredictable, but certainly not tragic or bad.

[Oscirus]

12 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

I agree that it sounds like bad fan fiction. But given D&D’s recent comments about not wanting the predictable I could see them turning the heroes into villains and murderers and giving the villain a tragically romantic death in her brother/lover/baby daddy’s arms because it will shock people. I hope I’m wrong. 

All that said, I think Tyrion would like power. I think he did want to be the Lord of Casterly Rock and/or the North through marriage to Sansa. 

While I do believe that subversion of expectations is their goal, I also believe they're aware of fan backlash and won't just do crazy shit for the sake of being crazy.

True, he wanted that , but his motives changed to finding a leader that we could all believe in since at least season 5. Power wouldn't be the right bait for him. 

[WindyNights]

4 minutes ago, Callista said:

Just because D&D want things to be unpredictable doesn't mean they would write everything to be unpredictable in a *bad* way--which is what these supposed leaks are showing. Arya killing the Night King, for instance, was unpredictable, but certainly not tragic or bad.

Arya single-handedly made the dragons almost irrelevant to the White Walkers' defeat.

Also made all this Prince That Was Promised stuff into a red herring. 

I didn't find it bad but felt it was anti-climatic.

[Callista]

34 minutes ago, aprilbabe said:

It’s not just the Dany part of the leak that sucks the whole thing does. And if it’s true I get the actors reaction when asked about the end. They know people (both Jon and dany fans) are gonna go ape shit. It sucks for both character.

Many actors found the ending surprising, but this doesn't necessarily imply that it's surprising in a completely tragic or grim way.  Also, Iain Glen said he found the ending "rather brilliant" and the final episode would "exceed most expectations." So if the leaks are true, he must have a really dark sense of humor to find it "brilliant" that the woman whom his character loved and died for turns full-blown mad and is killed by her lover-nephew.

[chrisvee]

Well I think after the BoW Jaime is super done with Cersei emotionally (he seems pretty damned attached to Brienne) although the point of conflict with him (and Tyrion) will be the child. They made sure to shine a light on that in 8.02. That may drive Jaime’s return to KL and whatever tragic redemption lies ahead for him.

Would Dany agree to spare Cersei’s life if Jaime bent the knee? Or if Tyrion asked to save the heir of House Lannister?

We’ll have to see what Bronn does; that will cement Cersei’s betrayal of Jaime since he didn’t believe at the end of s7 that she would have him killed.

[Callista]

1 minute ago, WindyNights said:

Arya single-handedly made the dragons almost irrelevant to the White Walkers' defeat.

Also made all this Prince That Was Promised stuff into a red herring. 

I didn't find it bad but felt it was anti-climatic.

Yes, but what I meant is, her killing the Night King is certainly not in the same category as the "unpredictable" actions of the characters described in the supposed leak (Jon stabbing Dany, etc.

[Chaser]

Might be a long shot but Tyrion knows how Sansa feels about Dany, could he have been trying to connect with Sansa in the crypts to plead Dany's case later? He clearly wants Sansa on their/his side. That might backfire on him, either with Dany or Sansa.

I don't think Dany is mad in the sense that she's lost her mind or irrational. They've established that Dany is a Conqueror and what she can't Conquer she will destroy. She's said it herself. That's dangerous, not necessarily mad.

[Callista]

I'm really more interested in Episode 4 at the moment than all these new "leaks." For instance, do you guys think the Golden Company will appear in this episode and attack...I don't know, Dany's fleet? Winterfell? And is Euron proposing marriage to Cersei in that scene in the trailer? Or just being his usual pseudo-romantic self?  Am also wondering if Euron will betray Cersei at some point, or Cersei betray him.

[GraceK]

6 minutes ago, Chaser said:

don't think Dany is mad in the sense that she's lost her mind or irrational. They've established that Dany is a Conqueror and what she can't Conquer she will destroy. She's said it herself. That's dangerous, not necessarily mad.

Except she doesn’t. She has “ destroyed “ slavery. She conquered slave cities and liberated the slaves. She doesn’t go around looking for continents to take over and destroy.  She wants Westeros to be her home, she’s trying to restore her dynasty, not conquer. She never said she was a conqueror, Daario called her that . She even put her quest on hold to help fight the NK. She said she will destroy her enemies, which well yeah, makes sense. What else is she supposed to do, hug them?

[tvduser93]

Just like the death of NK was necessary to get rid of the ice side of magic, maybe Dany's death is necessary to get rid of the dragons/fire side of magic.

Perhaps Jon's final purpose is to 'convince' her to sacrifice themselves for the greater magic-less good.