Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[JennyMominFL]

I feel like Jaime And Cersei are going to go today and what a wonderful job the actors have done, Remarkable performances

[GrailKing]

SooooI see FF pointing out Jon kills Dani and baby, thus, maybe ending eventually both houses.

[Leila6]

41 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Precisely why I loathe this endgame. We've had to assume Bran only gets slices of the past, present and future; otherwise it's impossible to excuse how useless he's been in providing his family with information to help defeat the NK and Cersei. So if that's the case, how can he make fair decisions with no context? Is he going to be a puppet with the real decision making going to Tyrion, a la Tywin/Joffrey? He says he doesn't "want anymore," but is that a good thing? What about wanting equality, peace and justice? From what moral compass does he base his rule? What's his lifespan? What happens if/when he dies and has no heirs to take over? Sorry for the rant, but the whole thing is shit. Complete shit. 

I hate it, too. And here’s Isaac Hempstead-Wright’s thoughts on it from a recent interview:

“Bran doesn’t care. It’s totally irrelevant to Bran that Samwell Tarly’s family has died, unfortunately. The Three-Eyed Raven doesn’t see things in terms of personal sadness. He just sees things in terms of the way things must unfold, or the way time goes … But that’s been the role of the Three-Eyed Raven for millennia. To sit there, watching, carefully. He doesn’t sit there judging. He doesn’t sit there advising. He just sits there keeping an eye on history and time....I think the job of the Three-Eyed Raven is to keep the information and decide what to be shared. The previous Three-Eyed Raven, and all the Three-Eyed Ravens before him, they didn’t share information. They sat there, and they waited. They just kept abreast of everything.”

It sounds like the TER is meant to be a repository of history and little else. Not actively ruling as king or even advising much. I just don’t get it.

[sunflower]

1 hour ago, Portia4844 said:

Unless Bran is immune to anyone but the NK killing him

Did killing the NK unmark Bran? Because if he still has that mark doesn't that make the NK still possible as in Bran can turn into one? They never even showed his arm afterwards. What a mess. 

[SeanC]

3 minutes ago, sunflower said:

Did killing the NK unmark Bran? Because if he still has that mark doesn't that make the NK still possible as in Bran can turn into one? They never even showed his arm afterwards. What a mess. 

The Night King's mark was a tracker, nothing else.  The process for making someone a White Walker was instantaneous, from what we saw; there's nothing at all suggesting Bran is in danger of that happening, or else the Night King even trying to kill him makes no sense.

[Oscirus]

Looking like the houses are falling off by the wayside . Depending on the spoilers, the lannisters are gone, the Starks are depending on Sansa, targs done, looks like the baratheons might be the last great house standing

[SeanC]

15 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Looking like the houses are falling off by the wayside . Depending on the spoilers, the lannisters are gone, the Starks are depending on Sansa, targs done, looks like the baratheons might be the last great house standing

Tyrion's still around at the end, so the Lannisters should be okay (even if no more gold, but the show seems to have forgotten about that).

[Stallion12]

2 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Tyrion's still around at the end, so the Lannisters should be okay (even if no more gold, but the show seems to have forgotten about that).

Assuming friki is wrong.

I'm surprised no leaks yet, last Sunday we were hit with leaked footage.

[bijoux]

2 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Tyrion's still around at the end, so the Lannisters should be okay (even if no more gold, but the show seems to have forgotten about that).

The Lannisters have Kevan's branch as well. I don't think we've seen any of his kids besides Lancel on the show, but it doesn't mean they don't exist. 

But I do think Bronn's speach in the last episode meant something. Old houses fall, new arise. 

[screamin]

I can just imagine how wonderful a king Bran would be.

King Bran (after an eight month silence, in a conversational tone): There's a ship from Essos that docked yesterday. Its crew is unknowingly carrying the bubonic plague and is now spreading it through King's Landing as they fall ill doing their business. I could have warned you yesterday not to allow that ship to land, but it's destiny and once half the Westeros population dies in the plague, the rest will pass on a handy resistance to other important diseases, which is a net gain, if you take the LONG view...

I don't think that will work out well. It doesn't do Bran a whole lot of good to foresee the assassin  coming to his door if no one around likes King Bran enough to WANT to save him.

[cambridgeguy]

All of the Great Houses that are left are pretty much down to one or two people.  On paper the Starks are in the best shape with three (or 4, if you count Jon) but none of them appear interested in having kids.  Clearly the takeaway is to make sure you breed like rabbits if you want to ensure your house doesn't get wiped out.  Well, that and being very suspicious if your stingy old lord invites everyone to a big party and doesn't drink his wine.

Somewhat ironically, not only is Gendry the only Baratheon left he's also arguably the third most important surviving Targaryean since Dany and Jon are the only two left from the main line.  If those two are dead/exiled then he's the heir of two Great Houses. The same would apply to Sansa if Edmure and his kid dies off screen, although I think the spoilers say Edmure is supposed to reappear at some point.

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, GrailKing said:

not joking, did they ?

Yes, immediately really.  Unless someone recorded the original, it's gone.

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Precisely why I loathe this endgame. We've had to assume Bran only gets slices of the past, present and future; otherwise it's impossible to excuse how useless he's been in providing his family with information to help defeat the NK and Cersei. So if that's the case, how can he make fair decisions with no context? Is he going to be a puppet with the real decision making going to Tyrion, a la Tywin/Joffrey? He says he doesn't "want anymore," but is that a good thing? What about wanting equality, peace and justice? From what moral compass does he base his rule? What's his lifespan? What happens if/when he dies and has no heirs to take over? Sorry for the rant, but the whole thing is shit. Complete shit. 

Bran would focus on the past/present/future that was important at the moment.  It's not so much slices, it's more like tuning in.  Otherwise it would be like having a television playing every channel at once, and not only every channel, every single thing every channel ever played or will play at once. Throw in a radio doing the same, and every human on earth's conversations and actions, including what they are doing then, and all of them, from the beginning of time.

He would presumably focus in on whatever actions, or questions, the rest of the council might need to know to make a good decision as they govern.  He's completely impartial and has no agenda other than the survival of the human race.

Personally, I think it takes magic way too far, and the show should have damn well paid more attention to Bran if this is our ending.  Still, if it existed in real life?  What a gift!

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

They should have left it and done an outtake where everyone is at a starbucks for inclusion on the dvd. Cersei and tyrion will get wine frappuchinos. 

It wasn't really a Starbucks cup.  In an interview I watched the other day, Sophie Turner said those are the cups the actors use for everything from water, to tea, or coffee, or juice, provided by production.

1 hour ago, Leila6 said:

I hate it, too. And here’s Isaac Hempstead-Wright’s thoughts on it from a recent interview:

“Bran doesn’t care. It’s totally irrelevant to Bran that Samwell Tarly’s family has died, unfortunately. The Three-Eyed Raven doesn’t see things in terms of personal sadness. He just sees things in terms of the way things must unfold, or the way time goes … But that’s been the role of the Three-Eyed Raven for millennia. To sit there, watching, carefully. He doesn’t sit there judging. He doesn’t sit there advising. He just sits there keeping an eye on history and time....I think the job of the Three-Eyed Raven is to keep the information and decide what to be shared. The previous Three-Eyed Raven, and all the Three-Eyed Ravens before him, they didn’t share information. They sat there, and they waited. They just kept abreast of everything.”

It sounds like the TER is meant to be a repository of history and little else. Not actively ruling as king or even advising much. I just don’t get it.

I answered this above.  We have seen Bran be able to also see the present and the past, AND the future,  he's Wikipedia on steroids, and combine that with every spy agency and tool ever imagined, and then add in "instantaneous."  He can see anything the council might need to see, past, present of future.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Umbelina
typo and added the future

[Leila6]

6 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I answered this above.  We have seen Bran be able to also see the present and the past, he's Wikipedia on steroids, and combine that with every spy agency and tool ever imagined, and then add in "instantaneous."  He can see anything the council might need to see, past, present of future.

I think you missed my point. He can see all that, but he’s not sharing much of it. That greatly reduces his usefulness to a council.

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, Leila6 said:

I think you missed my point. He can see all that, but he’s not sharing much of it. That greatly reduces his usefulness to a council.

He shares what they need to know.

Also, for example, if they were trying to decide on motivations, or guilt, or innocence of someone, they could just ask Bran, and he'd tune into that channel.  If the council wondered about the country being attacked, they could ask Bran to focus on those involved.  Is that banker trustworthy or does he have ulterior motives?  Etc.  IF we choose this particular path, what would be the result?

As a magical tool, him spouting off every single thing he knows at every minute would not only not be helpful, it would be overwhelming.  His "abilities" would overwhelm him too, if he didn't cull only what needed to be known.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Umbelina

[GrailKing]

Off to wifey's Mother's day dinner.

Happy day for all the moms; kids remember.

[Stallion12]

26 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

All of the Great Houses that are left are pretty much down to one or two people.  On paper the Starks are in the best shape with three (or 4, if you count Jon) but none of them appear interested in having kids.  Clearly the takeaway is to make sure you breed like rabbits if you want to ensure your house doesn't get wiped out.  Well, that and being very suspicious if your stingy old lord invites everyone to a big party and doesn't drink his wine.

Somewhat ironically, not only is Gendry the only Baratheon left he's also arguably the third most important surviving Targaryean since Dany and Jon are the only two left from the main line.  If those two are dead/exiled then he's the heir of two Great Houses. The same would apply to Sansa if Edmure and his kid dies off screen, although I think the spoilers say Edmure is supposed to reappear at some point.

Technically obeys renaming kids are part targaryans too if they survived, or at least the game of thrones wiki says.

[Raachel2008]

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

SooooI see FF pointing out Jon kills Dani and baby, thus, maybe ending eventually both houses.

Wait, what baby?

33 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

All of the Great Houses that are left are pretty much down to one or two people.  On paper the Starks are in the best shape with three (or 4, if you count Jon) but none of them appear interested in having kids.  Clearly the takeaway is to make sure you breed like rabbits if you want to ensure your house doesn't get wiped out. 

Somewhat ironically, not only is Gendry the only Baratheon left he's also arguably the third most important surviving Targaryean since Dany and Jon are the only two left from the main line.  If those two are dead/exiled then he's the heir of two Great Houses. The same would apply to Sansa if Edmure and his kid dies off screen, although I think the spoilers say Edmure is supposed to reappear at some point.

Sansa is smart enough to know she has to marry and have children some day, it is the best way to keep the Starks ruling.

As far as Gendry goes, I don’t think it was ever mentioned on the show that Robert was 1/4 Targaryen, so, for all purposes, Dany and Jon are the last.

[Brn2bwild]

One thing that upsets me about the argument that it's been obvious Dany's only desire is to conquer is (1) it's not true in the show and (2) it's even less true in the books.  During ADWD, Dany really tried to create a new way of life that sprang up out of the old culture, only without slavery.  She was always listening to her advisers (such as the Green Grace), often to her detriment.  It's notable that unlike on the show, where she ordered Hizdahr Loraq to marry her, in the book she did it upon her council's advice.  And notably, Hizdahr was not the hottie he was in the show.  She did it to keep the peace and unify Meereen.

This was all done without Tyrion, whom she hasn't even met yet in the books!

I realize GRRM loves to subvert fantasy/folklore tropes (see Quentyn Martell's hero's journey ending with his fiery death), but at some point, the tropes need to be adhered to, or the story doesn't have a satisfying outcome.

ETA: Speaking of episode titles, I remember the second episode was mistakenly called "The Rightful Queen" here before it was changed.  Could that be the title of the last episode?

Edited May 12, 2019 by Brn2bwild

[JunebugWA]

Seems like all signs pointing to Dany not being the winner of the IT. The writers are setting her up to be killed, either by Jon, Arya, or Drogon. 

[screamin]

46 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

He shares what they need to know.

In practice? It might have been useful for Bran to let, say, the Dothraki commander at WF know that charging blindly into the fray is a hopeless strategy that would kill half his men. Shrugging off the question of why he didn't warn them of losing strategies as 'You didn't need to know', isn't the way to win friends and influence people - which a king needs. 

If Bran is going to suddenly wake up and say to his bodyguard: "Defend me, an assassin is approaching my chamber," it doesn't do Bran a lot of good for the bodyguard to answer, "You didn't give a shit yesterday about all the people that died for your 'destined' goal, including my brother. Why should I give a shit about YOUR destiny?"

Wikipedia is a fine tool, but you don't put it in charge of the government. A tool is only as good as the will behind it is using it, and a king needs to be trusted to act for the good of his country. Bran's aims are supposedly wider than that, and honestly, who'd trust him not to betray the narrow interests of Westeros as a country if he decides that he's more in favor of humanity at large (which may mean the interests of Braavos instead of Westeros, from time to time) or more in favor of something the gods want that Bran has shown he's really unfit to clearly explain - but might be REALLY bad for many Westerosi, because inscrutable gods and opaque Bran?

If they decide to make passive, disinterested, cold, uncaring Bran king, it just doesn't seem believable to me that anyone would choose such a creepy, unnerving enigma with unknown motivations to rule over them.

[Snowball II]

43 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

Sansa is smart enough to know she has to marry and have children some day, it is the best way to keep the Starks ruling.

Sansa should marry Gendry.  True, Gendry has a thing for Arya, but with the goal being to have children and continue the family line, Gendry would not be the worst choice.  He's hardworking, kind, brave, and strong.  Highborn Sansa can teach him all about being a lord, while Arya does her own thing, and travels the world.  Gendry wouldn't be wild about it, but I think he would warm to it, over time.  And, we would come full circle with Bobby B's son marrying Ned Stark's daughter, just like he wanted.

However, their children would be Baratheons, not Starks, so they would probably be raised at Storm's End, not Winterfell.  Still, I like this little ship I just thought of, and I'm going to wrap it around myself like a cozy blanket as protection from all the crazy shit that is bound to go down in tonight's episode.  **pulls blankie tight and sips coco**

Quote

I realize GRRM loves to subvert fantasy/folklore tropes (see Quentyn Martell's hero's journey ending with his fiery death), but at some point, the tropes need to be adhered to, or the story doesn't have a satisfying outcome.

Exactly.  Tropes become tropes because they work.  I don't care if the most predictable thing in the world happens, as long as it is executed well, and is emotionally satisfying.  When people subvert expectations just to subvert expectations, it takes me right out of the story.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Fiver

[Umbelina]

14 minutes ago, screamin said:

In practice? It might have been useful for Bran to let, say, the Dothraki commander at WF know that charging blindly into the fray is a hopeless strategy that would kill half his men.

Or, he knows that the Dorthraki are not a good fit for citizens of Westeros and wants to avoid as much rape, murder, and theft as possible?

He's more than Wikipedia though.  He can see past, present, and future.  He has no agenda other than the survival of the human race, and survival of the 3ER.

That doesn't mean no one ever dies again, as a matter of fact, it probably means some people MUST die, for the good of the overall survival.

As far as the NK?  I could also argue that the most important thing to happen, the NK's death?  Needed all the idiotic and insane "human" battle planning to succeed. 

Although, I personally chalk it up to incredibly stupid writers who cared more about the look of the thing than it making one bit of sense.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Umbelina

[Maximum Taco]

14 minutes ago, screamin said:

If Bran is going to suddenly wake up and say to his bodyguard: "Defend me, an assassin is approaching my chamber," it doesn't do Bran a lot of good for the bodyguard to answer, "You didn't give a shit yesterday about all the people that died for your 'destined' goal, including my brother. Why should I give a shit about YOUR destiny?"

Wouldn't Bran also see this coming though and have that bodyguard removed and replaced with one who would obey him?

[screamin]

12 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

Wouldn't Bran also see this coming though and have that bodyguard removed and replaced with one who would obey him?

Can Bran read minds, too?

If Bran can see the future with absolute clarity, completely and immutably, then it's destined, and what does Westeros need him for to mouth predictions and pronouncements of things that are going to happen anyway? While looking creepy staring at the ceiling from the Iron Throne?

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, screamin said:

Can Bran read minds, too?

If Bran can see the future with absolute clarity, completely and immutably, then it's destined, and what does Westeros need him for to mouth predictions and pronouncements of things that are going to happen anyway? While looking creepy staring at the ceiling from the Iron Throne?

Probably, since he could warg into anyone, and see anyone's past, present, and future as well.

[bijoux]

36 minutes ago, Fiver said:

Sansa should marry Gendry.  True, Gendry has a thing for Arya, but with the goal being to have children and continue the family line, Gendry would not be the worst choice.  He's hardworking, kind, brave, and strong.  Highborn Sansa can teach him all about being a lord, while Arya does her own thing, and travels the world.  Gendry wouldn't be wild about it, but I think he would warm to it, over time.  And, we would come full circle with Bobby B's son marrying Ned Stark's daughter, just like he wanted.

However, their children would be Baratheons, not Starks, so they would probably be raised at Storm's End, not Winterfell.  Still, I like this little ship I just thought of, and I'm going to wrap it around myself like a cozy blanket as protection from all the crazy shit that is bound to go down in tonight's episode.  **pulls blankie tight and sips coco**

I find it hard to imagine any one of the three not growing bitter if that happened. Maybe Arya if she  sails west of Westeros and isn't constantly reminded of it.

[Greta]

I just flat out don't believe this will end with King Bran. I think there will be moves in that direction not just in the show but the books, and perhaps a reveal that this was 3ER/Bran's plan all along, but it won't be successful. It's just an opportunity to allow GRRM to comment on the (bad) idea of a god-emperor.

[Maximum Taco]

11 minutes ago, screamin said:

Can Bran read minds, too?

If Bran can see the future with absolute clarity, completely and immutably, then it's destined, and what does Westeros need him for to mouth predictions and pronouncements of things that are going to happen anyway? While looking creepy staring at the ceiling from the Iron Throne?

Who the hell knows what Bran can do? 

In the books he seems to have strictly enforced rules, he can see through the weirwoods, in the past and present, and he can warg, and he sometimes gets prophetic visions. 

In the show it seems like he has whatever powers are convenient for him to have for the purposes of the plot, and if it serves the plot more for him to not have those powers he forgets he has them. He's like Super Friends era Superman. 

Edited May 12, 2019 by Maximum Taco

[Stallion12]

12 minutes ago, Greta said:

I just flat out don't believe this will end with King Bran. I think there will be moves in that direction not just in the show but the books, and perhaps a reveal that this was 3ER/Bran's plan all along, but it won't be successful. It's just an opportunity to allow GRRM to comment on the (bad) idea of a god-emperor.

I'm hanging onto it's false, because why would friki get silenced by HBO for leaking if what he said was completely false?

[loki567]

48 minutes ago, Fiver said:

Exactly.  Tropes become tropes because they work.  I don't care if the most predictable thing in the world happens, as long as it is executed well, and is emotionally satisfying.  When people subvert expectations just to subvert expectations, it takes me right out of the story.

I agree so much with that. There are complaints of either Dany and Jon ending up on the throne but these characters, in the books anyway, have spent the entire series learning and dealing with the weight of leadership. At a certain point, the story has to become predictable to make sense to the audience. 

And I still say Dany/Jon rule could be quite bittersweet in the sense that suddenly wouldn't magically heal all of Westeros' problems. They would have to deal with the reality of governing a broken nation. 

[Umbelina]

I want to make something clear.  😉

Personally, I find having the 3ER being a magical solution to everything beyond distasteful, and a cheap "out" of this story.

That said, I'm sure GRRM will handle the entire mess with much more skill than D&D, who frankly, just do have Bran staring off into space.

Now, I 'm sure Bran/3ER would spend a lot of time appearing to stare into space, since he has so much information to consider from every time period in history and the future.  However, in the book, that could be interesting, since we will be in Bran/3ER's mind with him. 

For the show to stay true to GRRM's ending is commendable, but if this is the solution to wars, injustices, and more than just the defeat of the NK?  They needed to spend a lot more time with Bran/3ER.  Otherwise, I think this ending will seem cheap and the biggest and sloppiest Deus ex machina EVER.

Shame on them.

Also, not too thrilled with GRRM right now either, because while I'm certain he would handle it better?  The world needs a version of a present Godlike creature in order to continue?  Mankind can't work a few things out for themselves? 

I'm explaining Bran/3ER (at least show version, the books haven't progressed very far yet) only because the questions are  being posed, not because I am thrilled with this ending.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Umbelina
clarity

[spaceghostess]

You guys? I'm now worrying that Jon will start killing Dany and then she'll tell him she's pregnant when it's too late for him to un-kill her.

My exchange w/the show if that happens:

P.S. I learned to make a meme just for this post. . . so thanks, GoT?

Edited May 12, 2019 by spaceghostess
postscript

[loki567]

That's very, very possible. It would be horrible but the show's been capable of that kind of horrible. 

It also brings to mind the theory I've seen before that all past legends in Westeros' history might have been prophecies about our current characters past down through the history. For example, Tyrion's Lann the Clever, etc. 

So by the same token, Jon might have been the one to actually start the Azor Ahai legend about killing his wife and forging Lightbringer by stabbing Dany and restarting the Night's Watch. 

[tabularasa]

To be completely honest writing an ending to satisfy a majority is impossible. There are those who wanted to see Dany on the throne, Jon of course and those who hate both characters. I feel bad because I wanted the ending not to be Disney like but now I kind of hope it would be after reading the spoilers.

Could someone tell me why they made a huge love story between D & J? Do you remember all of us thinking their baby would rule? This love story consisted of like 2 episodes because now Jon is repulsed by his aunt and Dany thinks about the throne. Also Jon's parentage should be a huge deal and it'll be like irrelevant. Why did they even create that tension? I didn't even get nice scenes or conflicts.

[spaceghostess]

7 minutes ago, loki567 said:

That's very, very possible. It would be horrible but the show's been capable of that kind of horrible. 

It also brings to mind the theory I've seen before that all past legends in Westeros' history might have been prophecies about our current characters past down through the history. For example, Tyrion's Lann the Clever, etc. 

So by the same token, Jon might have been the one to actually start the Azor Ahai legend about killing his wife and forging Lightbringer by stabbing Dany and restarting the Night's Watch. 

I wish I could "useful" and "sad" your post simultaneously, but I went with the stronger feeling. I just feel like D&D haven't remembered the books even exist for the past several years. I read a review with David Nutter yesterday that asked him some burning questions about 8.04. His answers indicated that his read on the episode (which must mainly come from the script he was provided) when directing it was pretty shallow and barely informed by past seasons, much less the books themselves. I'll have to see if I can dig it up and post a link.

Edited May 12, 2019 by spaceghostess

[Oscirus]

4 minutes ago, tabularasa said:

To be completely honest writing an ending to satisfy a majority is impossible. There are those who wanted to see Dany on the throne, Jon of course and those who hate both characters. I feel bad because I wanted the ending not to be Disney like but now I kind of hope it would be after reading the spoilers.

Could someone tell me why they made a huge love story between D & J? Do you remember all of us thinking their baby would rule? This love story consisted of like 2 episodes because now Jon is repulsed by his aunt and Dany thinks about the throne. Also Jon's parentage should be a huge deal and it'll be like irrelevant. Why did they even create that tension? I didn't even get nice scenes or conflicts.

Because romantic tragedies get more play.  Though it is fucked up that Jon repeatedly has to kill women he loves.

[Stallion12]

21 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I want to make something clear.  😉

Personally, I find having the 3ER being a magical solution to everything beyond distasteful, and a cheap "out" of this story.

That said, I'm sure GRRM will handle the entire mess with much more skill than D&D, who frankly, just do have Bran staring off into space.

Now, I 'm sure Bran/3ER would spend a lot of time appearing to stare into space, since he has so much information to consider from every time period in history and the future.  However, in the book, that could be interesting, since we will be in Bran/3ER's mind with him. 

For the show to stay true to GRRM's ending is commendable, but if this is the solution to wars, injustices, and more than just the defeat of the NK?  They needed to spend a lot more time with Bran/3ER.  Otherwise, I think this ending will seem cheap and the biggest and sloppiest Deus ex machina EVER.

Shame on them.

Also, not too thrilled with GRRM right now either, because while I'm certain he would handle it better?  The world needs a version of a present Godlike creature in order to continue?  Mankind can't work a few things out for themselves? 

I'm explaining Bran/3ER (at least show version, the books haven't progressed very far yet) only because the questions are  being posed, not because I am thrilled with this ending.

That's my gripe too, but we also assumes that is the e ending. 

[BitterApple]

8 minutes ago, tabularasa said:

To be completely honest writing an ending to satisfy a majority is impossible. There are those who wanted to see Dany on the throne, Jon of course and those who hate both characters. I feel bad because I wanted the ending not to be Disney like but now I kind of hope it would be after reading the spoilers.

I always figured Jon would sacrifice himself to save a pregnant Dany and she'd end up on the Throne. That would be in alignment with everything we've been building up to, but not a totally picture-perfect ending. 

Edited May 12, 2019 by BitterApple

[Oscirus]

3 hours ago, SeanC said:

Tyrion's still around at the end, so the Lannisters should be okay (even if no more gold, but the show seems to have forgotten about that).

Depends on the spoiler, but yea lannisters should be ok and Brienne might be having a little Lannister of her own so theres that. 

[Stallion12]

8 minutes ago, tabularasa said:

To be completely honest writing an ending to satisfy a majority is impossible. There are those who wanted to see Dany on the throne, Jon of course and those who hate both characters. I feel bad because I wanted the ending not to be Disney like but now I kind of hope it would be after reading the spoilers.

Could someone tell me why they made a huge love story between D & J? Do you remember all of us thinking their baby would rule? This love story consisted of like 2 episodes because now Jon is repulsed by his aunt and Dany thinks about the throne. Also Jon's parentage should be a huge deal and it'll be like irrelevant. Why did they even create that tension? I didn't even get nice scenes or conflicts.

True, but they could do better than the rumor. You won't get everyone, but at least go with something the show set up, they didn't set up bran as king or the nights watch being needed.

[stagmania]

I can’t believe nothing has leaked. Really wanted to go into this one prepared for the full scope of awfulness.

[Stallion12]

2 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I always figured Jon would sacrifice himself to save a pregnant Dany and she'd end up on the Throne. That would be in alignment with everything we've been building up to, but not a totally picture-perfect ending. 

That would be bittersweet. I just had a thought of that myself. 

[tabularasa]

1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

I always figured Jon would sacrifice himself to save a pregnant Dany and she'd end up on the Throne. That would be in alignment with everything we've been building up to, but not a totally picture-perfect ending. 

Honestly it would have been my guess as well but season 8 proved my wrong. I was worried season 8 would be too romance focused but instead I got nothing and honestly I don't think Jon killing Dany (unless pregnant which would be the worst outcome) bears so much weight. I mean their romance was quick and not exactly portrayed as an epic love story.

[stagmania]

1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

I always figured Jon would sacrifice himself to save a pregnant Dany and she'd end up on the Throne. That would be in alignment with everything we've been building up to, but not a totally picture-perfect ending. 

I thought Jon dying so Dany/their baby could live was a lock - it’s definitely what season 7 seemed to set up with the love story + quickening womb anvils + frequent reminders of his resurrection. But season 8 has in many ways felt very discordant with where season 7 left off, like they didn’t really have the whole trajectory figured out back then. 

[Oscirus]

4 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I always figured Jon would sacrifice himself to save a pregnant Dany and she'd end up on the Throne. That would be in alignment with everything we've been building up to, but not a totally picture-perfect ending. 

You still have that madness gene up and alive.  If madness is passing from generation to generation as is being insinuated, then it needs to end with Dany

[loki567]

1 minute ago, stagmania said:

I thought Jon dying so Dany/their baby could live was a lock - it’s definitely what season 7 seemed to set up with the love story + quickening womb anvils + frequent reminders of his resurrection. But season 8 has in many ways felt very discordant with where season 7 left off, like they didn’t really have the whole trajectory figured out back then. 

Which is strange as the whole thing was planned as one season. 

[BitterApple]

7 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

That would be bittersweet. I just had a thought of that myself. 

My thought as well. Dany would've achieved her goal of ruling Westeros and given birth to the child she never thought she could have, but it would've come at the cost of losing the man she loved. So she wins and she loses. If Dumb and Dumber weren't determined to turn her into the Mad Queen, I think that would've been a great ending. 

Edited May 12, 2019 by BitterApple

[spaceghostess]

9 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I always figured Jon would sacrifice himself to save a pregnant Dany and she'd end up on the Throne. That would be in alignment with everything we've been building up to, but not a totally picture-perfect ending. 

I could have lived with that.

[Umbelina]

3 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

My thought as well. Dany would've achieved her goal and given birth to the child she never thought she could have, but it would've come at the cost of losing the man she loved. So she wins and she loses. If Dumb and Dumber weren't determined to turn her into the Mad Queen, I think that would've been a great ending. 

I don't think D&D "turned her into" anything.

It's GRRM's ending.  If anything, they should not have focused so much on Dany, but it's set up as a bait and switch now, because of their choices, and that they obviously loved dragons, and hated Direwolves, even though there is a company that could have excelled at Direwolves.  Tippet Studios.  By the last two episodes in that saga, they had it DOWN, including fighting with humans and interacting with them.

Also, it goes back to the many interviews and comments with GRRM about war, the stupidity and destruction of war, the crushing of the "small folk" in war.  This was always a war tale, and not in favor of wars, or conquerors.  I stopped thinking Dany ( or anyone!) would win the throne long ago.

This unearned Deus ex machina at the end irks me though, because it's too out of the blue, with their version of Bran/3ER.

I also wish there were more of "Bran" left, if it was going to go this way.  I hope in the books that is true, and 3ER is just something he can call on as needed.

[galaxygirl76]

Do we know what will happen with the Clegane bowl? I just checked out freefolk and they seem pretty sure they will both fall in a fire while fighting and will both die that way. I do not recall seeing that in any of the (f)leafks but honestly there are so many I can't keep track of all of them.