Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[GraceK]

4 minutes ago, screamin said:

I'm wondering what Varys will DO to be considered a traitor. He seems so powerless right now. You would think that in KL, his old stomping grounds, Dany would at least TRY to use him to get into those tunnels and in touch with his old network of kids, and he would maybe turn that against her somehow...but how to do that if the whole city's going up?

Maybe he and Sansa are in cahoots? To promote Jon’s interests? He did send her that scroll about Eurons attack.

[nikma]

I think he will try to poison her.

[anamika]

5 minutes ago, MrsR said:

Everyone ends up dead in Hamlet. Titus Andronicus. Macbeth. etc. They're called tragedies. That's where this has always been heading.

But Bittersweet.....

How is all this even remotely like LOTR's scouring of the shire?

8 minutes ago, Chiny11 said:

I don't see how anyone would say he is the smartest person in the room.

He's the smartest person in the room because all the other characters say he is. Like Sansa. That's how it works in this show. If character A says that character B is smart, they are - even if they do the stupidest things.

Edited May 8, 2019 by anamika

[stagmania]

I assume the truth is some version of all these leaks combined. It’s going to be awful. 

I can’t stop laughing over the idea of Dany going mad at the sound of bells. Sure, why not!

[MrsR]

1 minute ago, anamika said:

How is all this even remotely like LOTR's scouring of the shire?

Is it required to be?

[anamika]

3 minutes ago, MrsR said:

Is it required to be?

According to GRRM, yes. He said that his ending is bittersweet like the Scouring of the Shire and is most similar to that.

Quote

“I haven’t written the ending yet, so I don’t know, but no. That’s certainly not my intent. I’ve said before that the tone of the ending that I’m going for is bittersweet. I mean, it’s no secret that Tolkien has been a huge influence on me, and I love the way he ended ’Lord of the Rings.’ It ends with victory, but it’s a bittersweet victory. Frodo is never whole again, and he goes away to the Undying Lands, and the other people live their lives. And the scouring of the Shire —brilliant piece of work, which I didn’t understand when I was 13 years old: ’Why is this here? The story’s over?’ But every time I read it I understand the brilliance of that segment more and more. All I can say is that’s the kind of tone I will be aiming for. Whether I achieve it or not, that will be up to people like you and my readers to judge.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/08/14/george-r-r-martin-aiming-for-a-lord-of-the-rings-ending-to-game-of-thrones/#307bd3bf3762

Edited May 8, 2019 by anamika

[ShellsandCheese]

2 minutes ago, MrsR said:

Is it required to be?

It's not but GRRM has been saying for years, decades that that is what he's going for as far as the end of A Song of Fire and Ice. 

[Minneapple]

7 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

Where is the info that Dany goes “mad”? What im seeing may be possible is that she goes full on ruthless, borderline evil. That’s not the same as ,talks to the fairys has visions , mad. I mean , aside of the weird bells make her crazy possible spoiler. If she does that then I agree they have made her “mad” and she has not been shown to be mad..   But if she goes to the dark side, well I think there is precedent.

I believe it's mostly just from Mad King Aerys. There has always been speculation that Dany could go that route, and people are simply saying she goes mad because she's burning people, not listening to reason, perhaps killing innocent people. I wish they had had more of a buildup to this on the show, but I do think there have always been signs. And, the minute she reacted to Jon's Targ news with "your claim to the throne is better than mine," I had a feeling about where this was going.

[ShellsandCheese]

8 minutes ago, nikma said:

I think he will try to poison her.

Maybe Varys and Qyburn conspire to give her a poison that makes her......drum roll please.....go mad! Episode five can be called The Mad Dragon (could be talking about Dany, Drogo, or both). Hahahaha. I wouldn't mind seeing Drogo and Dany in armor though. 

[GraceK]

One good thing to come from this shitshow is that Emilia Clarke is getting some really good material to work with this season. She’s finally getting a chance to act and show more range than just giving speeches and yelling. Her emotional journey has been very compelling and If she does go Darth Dany it will be glorious to watch at least.

[Colorful Mess]

2 hours ago, screamin said:

But it seems that the showrunners are in a great hurry and just want to sell us Jon as the humble unselfish paragon, without doing the work required.

I want a Darker Jon too.

[screamin]

32 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Maybe he and Sansa are in cahoots? To promote Jon’s interests? He did send her that scroll about Eurons attack.

If Varys is a traitor simply for communicating with Sansa against the Queen's wishes, then so is Jon, for telling Sansa something critical that Dany had specifically ordered him to keep to himself. It has to be something more specific done directly against her.

Maybe nikma's right about it being poison, but seems to me Varys would remember it didn't work against Dany the first time it was tried way back in the first seasons. He might go for the more direct approach, the way Kevan was killed in the books.

[catrice2]

When you go out to Youtube for these " Game of Thrones the cast remembers" videos and you realize neither Jacob Anderson nor Nathlie Emmanuel have one......

[GraceK]

3 minutes ago, screamin said:

Varys is a traitor simply for communicating with Sansa against the Queen's wishes, then so is Jon, for telling Sansa something critical that Dany had specifically ordered him to keep to himself. It has to be something more specific done directly against her.

Geez I didn’t mean just for communicating! Merely saying Sansas name apparently invokes a defensive response! I literally said “ in cahoots to promote Jon’s interests”. Varys has been making it clear to Tyrion that he prefers Jon in the throne instead, and made a veiled threat about possibly killing her if he feels she’s bad for the realm.  He knows that Sansa has the vale on her side, and knows that she knows about Jon’s parentage, and clearly feels comfortable enough sending her the important information about the attack on Danys ships, which means  he sees her as an important person in her own right. It’s possible he attempts to convince her to help him in trying to put Jon on the throne which if Dany finds out, would be treason in her eyes and is definitely enough to get him killed.

[ursula]

The moment Sansa told Tyrion about Jon's claim, she set the wheels in motion for Dany to be killed. 

[GraceK]

[GraceK]

I have no idea if they are true 🤷🏻‍♀️ But then again, so much is leaking they have as much of a chance as anything else.

[Chiny11]

4 minutes ago, GraceK said:

I have no idea if they are true 🤷🏻‍♀️ But then again, so much is leaking they have as much of a chance as anything else.

Leaks and counter leaks.

But the bells though...😂😂😂

Serious question....I am confused by the Golden Company's reference in that leak. Whose side are they on?

Edited May 8, 2019 by Chiny11

[Nashville]

15 hours ago, John Potts said:

And everyone will puzzle over his last words, "Snowball" (though I guess that depends whether that was intended as a Citizen Kane or a St Elsewhere reference)!

I immediately went with St. Elsewhere myself.  🙂 

15 hours ago, TwistedandBored said:

How I am feeling after reading these spoilers

 

 My favorite workout shirt at the gym:  😆

10 hours ago, Umbelina said:

From the moment she has her husband murder that worthless little shit, Dany has wanted the IT for herself.  

I would disagree with this assessment simply because I don’t think Dany pushed Drogo into action against Viserys; Drogo acted of his own volition in that respect, out of irritation with Viserys’s unending spew of bullshit.  At that point Dany had assimilated well enough with the Dothraki to understand the untenable position in which her brother had put himself with them, and she passively accepted Drogo’s delivery of the consequences without protest - but I don’t think she provoked them.

1 hour ago, Chiny11 said:

More leaks:

https://mobile.twitter.com/khalesus/status/1125913629101047809?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1125913629101047809&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231125913629101047809

Translation (As Is from the link above.):

"The episode begins with Daenerys in Rocadragón. She is very sad about what happened in the previous episode. Her hair is lucky because Missandei died because she feels defeated.

<snip>

Last time I read something that bad, I was assembling an entertainment center.

1 hour ago, screamin said:

I'm wondering what Varys will DO to be considered a traitor. 

Varys may have already done it.  After getting the DL from Tyrion regarding Jon’s true lineage, and deciding Dany might not be the horse Varys wants to hitch up with...?  A well-timed raven from Varys to Cersei might have been all that was necessary for Urine to have his ship-based ballistas waiting in ambush.

[Umbelina]

16 minutes ago, Chiny11 said:

Serious question....I am confused by the Golden Company's reference in that leak. Whose side are they on?

Cersei's paying them.

If they had waited, Cersei would have run out of money and they would have split.

[magdalene]

21 minutes ago, GraceK said:

This reads like Dany shipper fan fiction and wishfulment fantasy. How would they have gotten the whole episode?

[magdalene]

8 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Last time I read something that bad, I was assembling an entertainment center.

Oh yes, written by someone who knows how to mangle the English language.

[Snowball II]

This is just a small thing, but I rewatched season seven recently, and I can't stop thinking about it: when Dany meets Jon on Dragonstone, she says to him, "Do you have any idea how many men have tried to kill me?".

Yeeaahh...if these spoilers are true, they pretty much just spelled it out, right there.  Oof.

[GraceK]

Im wondering ..,where do bells fit in? How is that a trigger? Where did that come from?

[ShellsandCheese]

I don’t need a fan fiction ending but an ending where Dany was being set up to look like she’d gone crazy when she hadn’t would at least be interesting. Or if we find out that Sansa playing a long con too and was in it the whole time, hence the hostility. That at would at least be different. 

[MrsR]

It's a crappy translation and I suspect it came from the music editing department in some country.

On another site, someone is suspecting it's Cersei who was triggered by the bells. SHAME SHAME

Edited May 8, 2019 by MrsR

[anamika]

The only legit leaker right now is Got1111 something.

So bells it is!

8 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Im wondering ..,where do bells fit in? How is that a trigger? Where did that come from?

I am sure D&D will have some character refer to something they put in episode 3 of season 2 to let us know.

Edited May 8, 2019 by anamika

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

But Bittersweet.....

How is all this even remotely like LOTR's scouring of the shire?

Yeah, this is not bittersweet, this is straight up devastating.

1 hour ago, stagmania said:

I can’t stop laughing over the idea of Dany going mad at the sound of bells. Sure, why not!

I almost hope the bells story is true, because 

1)  It's so ridiculous that it will remind me not to take this stuff too seriously.  I've had a dark cloud hanging over me since Sunday because I've been so upset about where this is obviously going.  It's not right to be so involved in a TV show.  I may swear off fiction altogether after this.  And:

2)  If the bells drive her mad, it's more like a true mental illness/I'm not responsible mad, as opposed to I'm a megalomaniac and a bad person mad.  I could see a scene where the Dothraki are raping and looting and pillaging, and things are getting out of hand, and maybe Drogon has died (as much as I hate the idea), and the bells start and she just freaks out.  What she does as a mad person I don't know, just start threatening everyone?

1 hour ago, GraceK said:

One good thing to come from this shitshow is that Emilia Clarke is getting some really good material to work with this season.

Did you see the article where Emilia Clarke talked about when she found out what happened to her character?  It said she just walked around London for three hours, she was so upset by it.  That's pretty much how I've felt about it.  And she knows her character as well as anyone.  Obviously she didn't expect this dark an end.

[GraceK]

2 minutes ago, rmontro said:

What she does as a mad person I don't know, just start threatening everyone?

She starts flapping her arms around screeching “ i am a dragon ! I am a dragon! Weeeeeeee!”

[glowbug]

Those latest leaks, while not as bad as Dany going mad at the sound of bells, is so unbelievable. Very much sounds like it’s been made up by a Dany fan and Jon/Dany shipper. 

Varys has already committed treason during his conversation with Tyrion. Saying Dany is mad and shouldn’t be on the throne and trying to convince one of her supporters to turn against her. He’s already plotted against her and stated his intentions to plot further. If Dany ever found out what he had said she would have grounds to execute him. Any other ruler would do the same. Unless Tyrion tells her though she won’t find out so he’ll probably do something else and she’ll catch him that way. 

[Nashville]

14 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Im wondering ..,where do bells fit in? How is that a trigger? Where did that come from?

Hunchback of Notre Dame, maybe?

[magdalene]

I think certain noises can set off a psychotic break in a mentally ill person or a person going through severe trauma. As to why bells, I have no idea.

Why is HBO so bad at keeping the episodes under wraps? Good grief.

[Portia4844]

Aren't bells used to declare that King/Queen are dead?  Or rung to signal something of significance? 

[Nashville]

2 minutes ago, Portia4844 said:

Aren't bells used to declare that King/Queen are dead?  Or rung to signal something of significance? 

They burn shit for a Pope - other than that, I got nothin’.

[MrsR]

The bells ring during emergencies. Remember Tywin dying and Varys' reaction.

[bijoux]

23 minutes ago, MrsR said:

On another site, someone is suspecting it's Cersei who was triggered by the bells. SHAME SHAME

That would certainly make more sense.

[rmontro]

19 minutes ago, GraceK said:

She starts flapping her arms around screeching “ i am a dragon ! I am a dragon! Weeeeeeee!”

I was thinking they should have her sing "You Should See Me in a Crown" by Billie Eilish.

The lyrics and video are appropriate.

14 minutes ago, magdalene said:

I think certain noises can set off a psychotic break in a mentally ill person or a person going through severe trauma. As to why bells, I have no idea.

I know some autistic people can have violent reactions to loud noises.  I suppose this could be something similar.

Regarding Tyrion possibly betraying her:  I wonder if this could be prompted by her executing Varys (if that happens).  Tyrion is already too fond of Cersei to begin with.

[GraceK]

4 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Regarding Tyrion possibly betraying her:  I wonder if this could be prompted by her executing Varys (if that happens).  Tyrion is already too fond of Cersei to begin with.

She should have gotten rid of Tyrion in season 7. Olenna was right.

[Oscirus]

6 hours ago, screamin said:

• People can recover from starvation. Flash-frying them is a little more permanent.

Honestly, a siege of KL is probably the best idea right now. The new Prince of Dorne (who? Just go with it) has apparently vowed fealty to Dany, so there's a source of food, new men, and a place to winter. IIRC, Tyrion DID say it's still winter, so food will remain important. A relatively small number of men and ships can besiege the capital and cut off trade so that Cersei will eventually run out of both food and money to pay her mercenaries, while Dany keeps her last child out of crossbow range and can freely gather the rest of the country's fealty at her leisure.

There's gonna be causualty's regardless only difference is the nobles wouldn't be affected by Tyrions method, and if you think Cersei's going to go away quietly cuz others demand it without doing something catastrophic, you don't know Cersei. Best bet is to go in there hard and fast and apologize later for the aftermath

Lolol Not surprising Dany fans love that latest leak.  Jesus is that one dumb 

[Jextella]

3 hours ago, anamika said:

According to GRRM, yes. He said that his ending is bittersweet like the Scouring of the Shire and is most similar to that.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/08/14/george-r-r-martin-aiming-for-a-lord-of-the-rings-ending-to-game-of-thrones/#307bd3bf3762

This reminds me of an interview with D&D in which they talk about how the endings of Breaking Bad and The Sopranos were perfect.  I never watched the Sopranos but I did watch Breaking Bad and I could totally see a GOT ending similar to that of BB.  Dany will have the same fate as Walter White.  Both are obsessed with a singular goal.  Both get close but die in their pursuit only inches away.  I could totally see Dany in the throne room touching the throne before dying in the same way Walter White was in the drug lab when he died.

WW's family suffered in the end for his obsession.  Life moves on for the survivors, but their futures are bleak.  I think we will see the same for Dany and those around her.  We've already seen Missandei die (kinda like Walt's brother-in-law!). 

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a Breaking Bad ending - fantasy style.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Jextella

[rmontro]

I saw someone say on YouTube that when this season ends, the phrase "jump the shark" will no longer be used, because it will be replaced by how Game of Thrones will have destroyed itself in the end.  I wish I could disagree.

[Brn2bwild]

Re the competing spoilers: The more I think about it, the more I think D&D are too conventional to go with an outcome that isn't largely triumphant and upbeat.  So at this point we're supposed to think Dany will go all mad queen and everything will be destroyed, but then it will turn out to not be the case.  I'm still praying we get our upbeat ending where Dany finally stops acting like I Am the Queen! and goes back to being the Dany who learned how to win the respect of the Dothraki before she had dragons.  I'll cling to that until the final two episodes prove otherwise.

[anamika]

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/blpfcc/night_king_is_really_getting_the_short_end_of_the/

To think that D&D reduced these guys to a one episode secondary plot point after all that build up and mythology and prophecies and back story.... I still find it hard to digest.

[Indi]

3 hours ago, MrsR said:

It's a crappy translation and I suspect it came from the music editing department in some country.

On another site, someone is suspecting it's Cersei who was triggered by the bells. SHAME SHAME

I agree. Dani being driven mad by bells doesn't make any sense.

[BooBear]

7 hours ago, GraceK said:

I’ve been hurt too many times to believe in hope anymore. 

One reason I can't care about the spoilers anymore. I think they made a mistake in leaking a lot of foilers. Now people are making things up with abandon. You can't tell what is going to happen. It is definitely hurting my enjoyment of the show. I heard the last episode was one of the lowest rated. I think people are getting frustrated.  I will note however none of the spoilers have been right that weren't leaked on the day of the episode. 

Only reasons to watch for me

1. I have found all the acting to be quite good and I believe the acting is elevating the material. 

2. I hold out hope for reason and that the show runners will not want to hurt the brand. With all that HBO has planned for it. Though I think that might be too late. 

3. I want to be able to fully enjoy the fan reaction(vitriol) right as the episode ends. 

[Stallion12]

9 hours ago, aprilbabe said:

Lawd it looks like this confirms the leaks. Bells fucking Bells make her snap. This is worse than I thought and honestly legit made me laugh. I can't even be mad, just laugh because what I am picturing is ridiculous.

 The show got dragged for their misogyny this ep by critics.  Now they are about the have the brown people raping and murdering the lily white women and children.  They are about to have their asses handed to them. How can D&D be that damn dense? Like really.

Yea, I could see a few doing it and have greywurm confronting them, but as the army? If they had the second sons with them and they did it too it would at least even out, but this is a disaster.

[Dame sans merci]

5 hours ago, bijoux said:

That would certainly make more sense.

That would make a lot more sense. Which probably means it's not right...!

The bells thing has genuinely sent sent me over the edge from 'annoyed' to 'vaguely delirious'. I am cackling.

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, Indi said:

On another site, someone is suspecting it's Cersei who was triggered by the bells. SHAME SHAME

Cersei has been lacking a big scene this season so that would fit - I find it very hard to believe that the series will end without Lena Headey getting some meaty material and so far all she's done is mope about a lack of elephants and spend most of the time looking smug. 

I hope the Golden Company actually does something.  So far all of her success have been because of Euron and the ballistas.  Make them earn their money!

[Minneapple]

Well at least we got to read some Jonerys fanfic!

I think I'm going to be triggered by Dany being triggered by bells. I'm seriously wtf over that spoiler.

[Dame sans merci]

Just seen somebody on Reddit ponder whether Jon will end up murdering Dany with Jorah's family sword of all things, and I am, quite frankly, not okay.

Thanks, I hate it.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Dame sans merci
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