S34.E14: No Good Deed Goes Unpunished / S34.E15: Reunion

[cooksdelight]

1 minute ago, rasalas said:

But they were available to Cirie just as they were to everyone else.

Exactly. If you lie back and think your social game will do it, or that you can strategize better than anyone else, it won't matter if everyone around you has an idol.

I do hope production/Jeff takes a look at the fallout from having so many rewards, advantages, idols, etc., and scales back. I would dearly love for one season with no idols, no advantages. Just people playing hard to be the last one standing.

[AZChristian]

Sarah is a cop, and knows how to read people.  She knew that the advantage was non-transferrable before she gave it to Cirie as a sign of trust.  

Put it in this context.  A cop (or ANYONE with a grain of sense) is not going to hand a loaded gun to a criminal in a life-or-death situation and say, "I'm going to let you HOLD this is a sign of trust."  Because they know that if the gun is loaded, they're going to end up dead.  

Sarah ain't stupid.  She knew she was NOT going to lose that advantage; Cirie would have either shown herself to be trustworthy, or she would have exposed herself for the non-trustworthy person she was.

And I'm in the minority camp here, but I loved the TC when everyone played their idols and advantages.  I love a good scramble - and it's all part of the "Outlast" part of the game.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, AZChristian said:

And I'm in the minority camp here, but I loved the TC when everyone played their idols and advantages.  I love a good scramble - and it's all part of the "Outlast" part of the game.

I think production loved it, too, and it's probably what they've been hoping for when they do put so much junk in play.  I didn't mind it.  At least it was something new.  Hard to find anything new in this.  How many eps have their been?  Close to 500?  That's a lot of same ol same ol.

[nkotb]

Everyone has captured my feelings very well, but I had 2 observations that haven't been touched-on very much.

1. Is Brad seriously a lawyer? Like, he passed the bar & everything? That was one of the worst tribal council performances I've ever seen. Troyzan, who was a non-entity, did a billion times better than him. I hope none of his clients are facing the death penalty (I don't know what kind of law he practices).

2. Ozzy, you pretty, athletic, shockingly-stupid hottie, you perfectly articulated why you could play this game every season until you're in the ground, but you'll never win. Focusing on just winning competitions, and caring nothing at all about the social aspects of the game is why you always lose. For sure, Brad was in the final 3 because of his competition wins, but his social game, as well as any strategy that didn't involve winning competitions, sucked, which is why, like you, he'll never win. Culpepper is a much bigger douchebag than Ozzy, in my opinion, but they both focus on the "outplay", not the "outwit" & "outlast" part of the game. I have to be honest, I truly believe that Culpepper was an ass all season, & they chose to not show it until last night. Please let that be the last of the Culpeppers we see. God help us when their kids are old enough to play, if they're not already. 

[fishcakes]

It's a shame that Brad, who for most of the season was a pretty good guy, released his inner douchebag at the end. I don't think the editing was hiding it all along; I think the safer he got, the more obnoxious he became, and combined with the fact that Tai didn't bow down to him, as he seemed to think Tai was obligated to do, made him insane. His despondent face throughout the reunion was everything. And I get to end the season with a final "Fuck you, Brad Culpepper!" so that's a bonus.

If they're going to start a season with 20 people, then they need to either have more than 12 episodes or have a couple of double eliminations early in the season when it matters less to the final outcome. Four TCs in the finale is too many, and after Cirie, Aubry, and Tai left, we didn't even the the few minutes back at camp where everyone talks about what just happened. It was just torch snuffed, commercial, then right to the next IC three times in a row. The reunion was also way more compressed than usual; the discussion with the players didn't start until 10:15 and at 10:45 they were done, leaving the last 15 minutes for commercials and next season's preview. So it was only a half hour minus commercial time to talk to a handful of the 20 players.

Sarah killed it at FTC. I thought it was hilarious that Brad was touting his skills as a trial lawyer beforehand because Brad has gone to trial exactly ONCE in his career. He's what's known in the legal profession as a dump truck; he takes cases and settles them without going to trial. And because he has that reputation, opposing counsel know they can lowball him on the settlement offer and he'll talk the client into accepting it. It's very lucrative for him because never going to trial frees up a ton of time to take on more cases he can settle and take a contingency fee on, but his clients get screwed. So his crowing about how he's going to put his trial lawyer skills to work at FTC was pretty great because Sarah, as a police officer, has significantly more experience talking to juries than he does, and she proved that last night. I also thought Troy's final speech at FTC was nice; he knew he wasn't getting any votes but was just happy to have played.

8 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

There was.  Probst also sky dived and arrived by motorcycle before.  I miss those cheesy entrances.  

I do too. My favorite cheesy entrance was when the reunion was at the Ed Sullivan Theater and in the last leg of Jeff's jaunt from the island to New York he took a cab, went back for a receipt, and then rode the subway wearing his cargo pants and holding the voting urn.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I feel like an idiot.  Everyone who hated Culpepper all along was right.  Man I'm so done with him FOREEEVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. I eat crow @fishcakes.  He is the worst.

Michaela when Debbie brought up Lady Macbeth.  (What the fuck was WITH Debbie, anyways?  God.  Sarah is Lady Macbeth?)

Tai when Culpepper was doing his fucking bullshit.  

Michaela just, anytime.  <3   My Skeptical Queen who did not take good gameplay personally.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Jolie said:

I would also have been okay with Brad winning. I don't think he's evil or hiding his true personality. We all have a bit of douchery in us. It just needs the right buttons pushed to come out. I can see where Tai could be extremely frustrating. Should Brad have talked to him the way he did? No, but maybe he wouldn't have if he really had had that Snickers bar.

Seconds before he went off on Tai, I was commenting on how deeply exhausted he looked -- actually ill.  I think the food deprivation is much harder on men and the more calorie burning muscle they carry the worse it is.   So, I'm not convinced Brad was being fake all season and that was his true colors coming out.  I didn't want Brad to win, but I don't hate him for showing his frustration with Tai.

 

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

I did not like how somehow Zeke's pain was put into context of how it affected Sarah's grandmother.

It's our grandparents who have the most to learn from seeing Zeke play Survivor.  Kids today grew up watching Glee and dozens of other TV shows and movies where the gay people are wonderful and sympathetic characters.  Acceptance and understanding toward people in the LGBT community is a steep learning curve for older people who grew up being told by teachers, parents, books and movies that this was something very wrong, a sickness even.  It's always hard to unlearn something that was learned during the formative years.  Old  people may be throw away people to most of society but what they think still matters if for no other reason that many of them are raising their grandchildren.

[Special K]

2 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

 

Michaela when Debbie brought up Lady Macbeth.

 

 

This look says:  "Has she even read Macbeth?!?"  And also:  "Get some friggin perspective, lady!"

[Bryce Lynch]

32 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

ah, there is the asshole, bullying Brad that I remember so well. Brad does not seem to get that strong arming people doesn't work. On top of that, he is an emotional player. Why did he get rid of Tai when he could have brought a goat to the final tribal? Why the hell would he bring Sara? Seriously, she got along with everyone even after voting out their alliance mates.  But Tai made Brad angry. Brad did not get the idol from Tai and allow Brad to control him so Tai had to be voted out.

Yeah, it took all season but there was the asshole. Props to his puzzle acumen. He did a great job with those. I expect him to win challenges because he was a professional athlete. He should win games that involve running, throwing and lifting stuff. The puzzle wins are more impressive but I don't think anyone thinks of him as a dumb jock, he is a lawyer. That means he has enough intelligence and perseverance to go far in school and pass the bar exam. Those are not easy things to do.

But my god his strong arm tactics were painful to watch. There is no subtly there. And he was happily bragging about his condensation and bullying. He was freaking celebrating his bullying with Troyzan.

And then there is Tai being Tai. He can never win the game because he cannot lie or intentionally hurt people and winning the game really does entail the willingness to lie and stab people in the back. He is a good guy who is great at finding idols but he cannot win this game. I love that he stood up to Brad and tried to find another way to deal with that mess.

Troyzan was useless. He was invisible and did nothing. He was such a non-entity in the game that no one cared about him at tribal. So, yeah. That was a waste of space.

I loved Sara's tribal performance. I loved that someone asked her straight up how she could be so friendly and personal with people and then stab her in the back. Her argument was perfect. My job requires that I act the role fully or bad things happen and that made it possible for me to do it in this game. I also think she was honest that she liked the people she hurt and it bothered her but she knew that she had to do it to win the game.

And fuck Ozzy. Ozzy lost every time you play because you are an idiot. People can handle starving for a week or two to win the money. Your fishing does nothing to advance your game. And you are screwed when you lose immunity because people know that you are a target. Brad was on the bottom for a good portion of the game. He didn't have to play a good social game. And we saw his game when he has any type of power. Egotistical, wanna be dictator, bullying asshole. Just because you are a physical threat does not mean you deserve to win. Learn to play nice with people and form a freaking alliance that might stick together.

I am not surprised that Debbie voted for Brad. She is the person who will latch on to the Alpha because it makes her feel special. And she is always going to be angry at the person who takes her out because she has to be the best at everything. How dare you beat me?

Cirie's ouster is a clear example that there are far too many idols and advantages in the game. Cirie received no votes but is sent home. That is just wrong. She did everything she needed to do and still gets screwed. Just BS.

I agree with everything except the part about Cirie.  The idols and advantages were out there for anyone to find.  Maybe Cirie should have "gotten off the hammock" and gone hunting for them.

Also, 3 of the idols were found early in the game and held onto by players who spent most of the season as members of a minority.  They managed to "outlast" without using the idols (though I thought Tai should have used one during at least 2 earlier votes) and they got to reap the rewards at the Final 6.

[ShadowSixx]

37 minutes ago, Special K said:

I feel like I was being punked by Brad's look at the reunion.  Like he was trying to dress like a 1950s NASA engineeer.....why?  To make me think he's smart or something?  Seriously that was the biggest mind-f*ck of the whole thing, and that counts Cirie's ouster as well.

God help me, but I love Troyzan.  He just loves Survivor and life.  I liked this final FTC speech.  He knew he wasn't winning, and he was full of gratitude and humility. 

Debbie, what a fool, with that Brad tongue-bath.  At least Ozzy's made sense. 

Aubry, Michaela, Cirie, Sierra all looked really really beautiful at the reunion. 

That was Cydney, the gorgeous bodybuilder, who went to U Penn.  And kept it secret, I think, to downplay her intellect.

 

I agree at least Ozzy said why he backed Culpepper, Debbie didn't. She only did it because Ozzy & Culpepper are alpha males and that's what she attaches herself to. You seen when Debbie poorly explained why she backed Culpepper, Michaela rolled her eyes because she knew Debbie was being a bitter Betty. When Michaela was saying why Sarah should win, Debbie was rolling her eyes. Debbie had no argument and Probst probably had FTC go that way cause he didn't want to hear Debbie add another profession to her resume. You know at FTC Debbie would have said she was an interrogator or she ran polygraph tests for the police department.

4 minutes ago, Special K said:

This look says:  "Has she even read Macbeth?!?"  And also:  "Get some friggin perspective, lady!"

Knowing Debbie, Debbie said she wrote Macbeth under a pseudo name.

Edited May 25, 2017 by ShadowSixx

[fishcakes]

6 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I feel like an idiot.  Everyone who hated Culpepper all along was right.  Man I'm so done with him FOREEEVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. I eat crow @fishcakes.  He is the worst.

I liked him this time too, but I won't make that mistake when he plays the third time and you know he's going to play a third time. I'll make a Fuck You, Brad Culpepper keyboard macro for his next returning season.

[NurseGiGi]

This season kinda went off the rails for me early on when Malcolm was sent home the way he was.  I don't know, I really thought this would be his season.  I also really hated, HATED all the idols and advantages.  I would love an old school season with no idols.

2 hours ago, Drogo said:

Khaleesi was very happy with Sarah's win and believes that Brad handed it to her.

 

Tai proposes splitting 2/2 and going to fire:  Tai's crazy if he thinks they're going to vote him out and take Sarah to Final Tribal.  Tai's done nothing in this game and Sarah did everything- he should just write her name down and save himself the splinters.

Brad tells Troyzan they have to get rid of Tai:  You know what's more important to Brad than winning a million dollars?  His pride.  Monica is going to be maaaaa-aaad.

Khaleesi, as always, is a genius and I look forward to her eventually competing and RULING her season!

[Bryce Lynch]

21 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

It's a shame that Brad, who for most of the season was a pretty good guy, released his inner douchebag at the end. I don't think the editing was hiding it all along; I think the safer he got, the more obnoxious he became, and combined with the fact that Tai didn't bow down to him, as he seemed to think Tai was obligated to do, made him insane. His despondent face throughout the reunion was everything. And I get to end the season with a final "Fuck you, Brad Culpepper!" so that's a bonus.

If they're going to start a season with 20 people, then they need to either have more than 12 episodes or have a couple of double eliminations early in the season when it matters less to the final outcome. Four TCs in the finale is too many, and after Cirie, Aubry, and Tai left, we didn't even the the few minutes back at camp where everyone talks about what just happened. It was just torch snuffed, commercial, then right to the next IC three times in a row. The reunion was also way more compressed than usual; the discussion with the players didn't start until 10:15 and at 10:45 they were done, leaving the last 15 minutes for commercials and next season's preview. So it was only a half hour minus commercial time to talk to a handful of the 20 players.

Sarah killed it at FTC. I thought it was hilarious that Brad was touting his skills as a trial lawyer beforehand because Brad has gone to trial exactly ONCE in his career. He's what's known in the legal profession as a dump truck; he takes cases and settles them without going to trial. And because he has that reputation, opposing counsel know they can lowball him on the settlement offer and he'll talk the client into accepting it. It's very lucrative for him because never going to trial frees up a ton of time to take on more cases he can settle and take a contingency fee on, but his clients get screwed. So his crowing about how he's going to put his trial lawyer skills to work at FTC was pretty great because Sarah, as a police officer, has significantly more experience talking to juries than he does, and she proved that last night. I also thought Troy's final speech at FTC was nice; he knew he wasn't getting any votes but was just happy to have played.

I do too. My favorite cheesy entrance was when the reunion was at the Ed Sullivan Theater and in the last leg of Jeff's jaunt from the island to New York he took a cab, went back for a receipt, and then rode the subway wearing his cargo pants and holding the voting urn.

You, Better Call Brad!!!  The second one reminds me of the Dunder-Mifflin waving ad (not the Michael Scott director's cut).  

[Wings]

8 minutes ago, nkotb said:

2. Ozzy, you pretty, athletic, shockingly-stupid hottie, you perfectly articulated why you could play this game every season until you're in the ground, but you'll never win. Focusing on just winning competitions, and caring nothing at all about the social aspects of the game is why you always lose.

Agree.  He is humorless and very serious.  

9 minutes ago, nkotb said:

I have to be honest, I truly believe that Culpepper was an ass all season, & they chose to not show it until last night.

Yes. No one bothered to eliminate him because he was not a threat to win this game.  He turned out to be the perfect goat and they didn't have to drag him there!   =)   They all saw him being objectionable.  Editing opted not to include that to have some suspense (they thought) at the finale.  They had to hide Brad.  Troysan had no shot.   

 

8 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

Four TCs in the finale is too many, and after Cirie, Aubry, and Tai left, we didn't even the the few minutes back at camp where everyone talks about what just happened.

YES!  Very unsatisfying.  

[Eolivet]

11 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

I don't think the editing was hiding it all along; I think the safer he got, the more obnoxious he became, and combined with the fact that Tai didn't bow down to him, as he seemed to think Tai was obligated to do, made him insane.

To me, there has to be some foreshadowing to it. The show isn't being broadcast live -- it's an edited product. If you know he eventually goes back to being a jerk, you find ways to show that he's still a jerk. They should not have made his edit about what a changed man he is. Again, make him faceless. What seriously was the point in humanizing him if the editors knew it ended badly for him?

If he really was a great guy that turned into a jerk at the end, then make him invisible. Give him Ken's second-half edit from last year: challenge beast, no personality. Ken had a great first-half edit, and became a non-entity in the second half. There are ways to do it.

But I wouldn't take "he was good until he wasn't" from a novel, and the show more resembles a novel than a live event, because it's edited into a story. That's just bad characterization. And it feels like jerking the audience around, at least to me.

[cooksdelight]

28 minutes ago, nkotb said:

Is Brad seriously a lawyer? Like, he passed the bar & everything? That was one of the worst tribal council performances I've ever seen. Troyzan, who was a non-entity, did a billion times better than him. I hope none of his clients are facing the death penalty (I don't know what kind of law he practices).

He's a personal injury lawyer. An ambulance chaser. :)

[DrivingSideways]

I went into this season liking Debbie for some reason I can't recall.  She's the worst.  And as much as Tai bugs the crap out of me, Brad was borderline abusive to him.  

I'm so happy Sarah won.  She seems humorless and like she's had a hard life, but essentially a good person who played the game seriously.  Her humanity came out with the Zeke situation.  Of all people, it was so sweet of Michaela to defend her game play - the bitter jury is so ridiculous.  Sarah wasn't a villain, she just pivoted as she had to, to stay in the game.

I also thought it was magnanimous of Sarah to apologize to Cirie.  Even if Cirie was doing it to help her, it was still an underhanded move to use someone's advantage against them, and it was fair that Sarah took out Michaela to punish her.  

Great season of Survivor!!   I hope the next one keeps up the momentum!

[dolphincorn]

12 hours ago, escatefromny said:

Brad looked like a middle school science teacher from the 70s at the Reunion, between the cheesy mustache and the short sleeved dress shirt ...

More like a phys-ed teacher who has to teach one period of science a day because of budget cuts. I think I was in his class in 1979. He was also a Mormon.

[Negritude]

8 hours ago, Daisy said:

oh, I remember what i wanted to say. I know that some people don't like the live thread concept - I hope/wish we had a live thread separate for every episode, because I have zero people to watch it at home with so i love Live Threads because i get that "oh i'm with friends, we can to talk about the show" vibe, before we break down what actually happened on the show. hopefully something to consider. (but i mean i get it if we can't. it's not y'alls fault i have no friends LOL)

 

Just sucks for us west coasters who have to go into social media hibernation so we won't get spoiled and then by the time I saw Sarah win, there's 12 pages in the forum. So yeah I would like for there to be a separate live thread.

[Special K]

1 minute ago, Negritude said:

Just sucks for us west coasters who have to go into social media hibernation so we won't get spoiled and then by the time I saw Sarah win, there's 12 pages in the forum. So yeah I would like for there to be a separate live thread.

There was a separate live thread, but I guess not everyone knew.

I hate the live-posting, too. :(

[Bryce Lynch]

13 minutes ago, ShadowSixx said:

 

I agree at least Ozzy said why he backed Culpepper, Debbie didn't. She only did it because Ozzy & Culpepper are alpha males and that's what she attaches herself to. You seen when Debbie poorly explained why she backed Culpepper, Michaela rolled her eyes because she knew Debbie was being a bitter Betty. When Michaela was saying why Sarah should win, Debbie was rolling her eyes. Debbie had no argument and Probst probably had FTC go that way cause he didn't want to hear Debbie add another profession to her resume. You know at FTC Debbie would have said she was an interrogator or she ran polygraph tests for the police department.

Knowing Debbie, Debbie said she wrote Macbeth under a pseudo name.

Good points.  I totally got Ozzy backing Brad. He was basically voting for himself.  To vote for Sarah, he'd have to admit the difficult truth that he has been playing Survivor stupidly all these years.

Debbie admitted Sarah played the best game and gave no valid reason for not voting for her.  I have no big problem with spite votes, but at least own the spite.

I think Debbie would frighten Lady Macbeth.  

8 minutes ago, DrivingSideways said:

I went into this season liking Debbie for some reason I can't recall.  She's the worst.  And as much as Tai bugs the crap out of me, Brad was borderline abusive to him.  

I'm so happy Sarah won.  She seems humorless and like she's had a hard life, but essentially a good person who played the game seriously.  Her humanity came out with the Zeke situation.  Of all people, it was so sweet of Michaela to defend her game play - the bitter jury is so ridiculous.  Sarah wasn't a villain, she just pivoted as she had to, to stay in the game.

I also thought it was magnanimous of Sarah to apologize to Cirie.  Even if Cirie was doing it to help her, it was still an underhanded move to use someone's advantage against them, and it was fair that Sarah took out Michaela to punish her.  

Great season of Survivor!!   I hope the next one keeps up the momentum!

Had you suffered a head injury?  That could explain both liking Debbie and the memory loss. :)

[blackwing]

27 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

Sarah killed it at FTC. I thought it was hilarious that Brad was touting his skills as a trial lawyer beforehand because Brad has gone to trial exactly ONCE in his career. He's what's known in the legal profession as a dump truck; he takes cases and settles them without going to trial. And because he has that reputation, opposing counsel know they can lowball him on the settlement offer and he'll talk the client into accepting it. It's very lucrative for him because never going to trial frees up a ton of time to take on more cases he can settle and take a contingency fee on, but his clients get screwed. So his crowing about how he's going to put his trial lawyer skills to work at FTC was pretty great because Sarah, as a police officer, has significantly more experience talking to juries than he does, and she proved that last night. I also thought Troy's final speech at FTC was nice; he knew he wasn't getting any votes but was just happy to have played.

If he has only gone to trial once, then I would agree that he might have overemphasised his trial experience.  However, even if he doesn't go to trial, I would imagine he has still developed skills in negotiation and persuasion.  He still has to get the opposing side to accept his offer.  So there are some skills there that he must have.  He just didn't articulate himself very well.  And I disagree that Sarah as a police officer has "significantly" more experience talking to juries.  Not sure how often she is in court to give testimony, but in her role, that's all it is.... testimony.  If she gets called to appear at trial, in her capacity as a police officer, all she is there is to give an account of the facts.  She's not there to persuade the jury, and she's not there to talk to the jury.  She's there to answer the lawyers' questions.  I do agree that she accounted for herself well at TC but I think she was also helped by Brad's ineffectiveness.

17 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Seconds before he went off on Tai, I was commenting on how deeply exhausted he looked -- actually ill.  I think the food deprivation is much harder on men and the more calorie burning muscle they carry the worse it is.   So, I'm not convinced Brad was being fake all season and that was his true colors coming out.  I didn't want Brad to win, but I don't hate him for showing his frustration with Tai.

I fully agree, and I can't fault him for going off on Tai.  Tai is a terrible player and the worst part about him is that he is so insecure and wishy washy that it makes him dangerous because he is unreliable.  Brad and Sarah both commented last night about how Tai always changes his mind.  Brad was trying to lock him down.  I thought Tai was ridiculous in his weeping and his "he treats me like a dog".  At that point, Tai should have been happy that anybody was going to take him to the end.  If he had been smarter, he would have gone to Brad and said that Brad would be more likely to beat Tai in the finals than Sarah, and then the three of them get together to vote out Sarah.  He trusted in Sarah to try and force a tie with Troyzan, and she said she was with him and then stabbed him in the back.  But Tai couldn't allow his hurt injured pride to see that sticking with Brad was his best move.

[ljenkins782]

12 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Each season it breaks my heart when Probst doesn't take the urn and jet-ski back to the States :(  I'm happy for Officer Sarah! Culpepper deserved to lose based on that pornstache alone.

Who do I have to bribe/kill/seduce in order to get a season with no twists and zero idols? Because that first TC was ridiculous! Granted, I'm extra salty because it was Cirie who got idoled out of the game, but that would have been such a bullshit way to go out, no matter who it happened to.  All those days of playing and strategizing and you can still get knocked out of the game, with ZERO votes, because of 4 different advantages...that needs to be fixed.

My jaw actually dropped when they panned over the F3 at the reunion. Granted, I was just recently mocking him for his mutton-dressed-as-lamb style choices and trying to seem younger than he is, but clearly he decided to swing ALL the way in the other direction and look like a dentist from the 1950s. (Seriously men, there is just no call to wear short-sleeved dress shirts. Ever.) 

The immunity train tribal really, really sucked. I guess they couldn't have predicted that people would have held onto their idols for this long, but still, way too many advantages in the mix. 

I will never understand how Tai held onto those 2 idols so long. His name was written down by his own alliance, his vote was stolen during a tumultuous TC, and people were always mad at him. How the hell did he sit on those idols through all that? And with the way it eventually played out, it was all for nothing. He bounced Cirie in a bullshit situation, saving himself and Aubry, only to see her bounced next and him right after. It was a complete waste and ended in a crappy (for me) F3. 

Quote

Why would Tai save Aubrey with his Idol and then vote her out next tribal? 

Right? I don't know that he could have predicted that saving Aubry was going to get Cirie out, maybe he thought Sarah would be vulnerable? Did they actually show the votes that were cast, but negated and never read to the group? 

Quote

Brad made several mistakes. Picking Sarah instead of Tai. Boasting about how great he was. Forgetting to play a social game. Picking on Michaela was probably his biggest blunder, you work at getting along with everybody. He said he didn't need the million but he wanted to win anyway. Another reason why you lost.

I could tell from the conversation they showed with Troyzan that Brad was going to lose the game for himself. Troy had already correctly surmised that Tai would give a worse performance at FTC, which Brad should have known too, Tai got there once and didn't get a single vote and he's a disaster at regular TCs. He clearly can't take the pressure of being questioned and always says the wrong thing, he was the perfect goat. It was the single simplest decision of the game, you only had to pick between 2 people, everyone else is already gone, and you had a right hand man who was guaranteed to vote your way. Brad 100% blew it. 

Quote

 

Sarah articulated it beautifully. People focus on outplay as in "winning challenges." that's a part of Outplay.  Brad's toolbox is about being physical and he outplayed using that. Sarah's toolbox is different and she outplayed using her surroundings and the information to make decisions (as she also pointed out every single player (I think except 1), she orchestrated the vote). In my mind that trumps five immunity wins. 

since the very beginning the show was never about winning more immunities than anyone else once you pass merge. sometimes that's respected (on top of everything else) but that shouldn't be the only factor.and I'm glad. 

 

I can't stand the focus on winning challenges either and if that itself were the sole criteria, this would be a completely different show, like American Ninja Warrior or something. Shows like that only feature one type of person: super trained athletes and that's just not what Survivor is supposed to be. It's supposed to be all different types of people who have to find their particular path to the end, not just who can physically dominate the others. 

I wish they'd bring back some of the other types of immunity challenges from earlier seasons, like shooting stuff with slingshots, or tossing things to break tiles, etc, just to give other people a shot. They do use a lot of puzzles now, which CAN be an equalizer, but it's frequently the end piece of a very physically taxing obstacle course, which is still going to favor the very physical players. If Brad and Cirie started a puzzle at the same time, she's got a good shot at beating him, but if they have to run a marathon first, he's going to get way more time to figure it out. 

Quote

When Jeff brought up the chance of a tie at the final TC when voting for the winner... did it ever dawn on him that he can prevent that by having an odd number of jurors?

An odd number of jurors and let's go back to an F2 while we're at it. The F3 just never seems worth it, there's always that one person who gets completely ignored at FTC and blanked in the votes. Credit to Troyzan for figuring out (albeit a little late, considering his "I can beat anyone" speech previously) that he was the seat-filler at FTC and no votes were coming his way.

Quote

Brad was really not very nice to Debbie during the game, yet she still voted for him.  She's even stupider than I thought.

Debbie's hard on for Brad during FTC was making me cringe, it was such a one-sided admiration. I was half expecting Brad to reject her support and talk only to Ozzy.  

Quote

Yeah, good point.  Not every vote against the winner is a bitter one.  Really, if I think about it, I don't think any of the three votes for Brad were bitter votes.  Maybe Debbie's was.

Who was Brad's 3rd vote? I know Ozzy and Debbie, but who else? 

Quote

Y'know, I felt bad for Jeff UNTIL the book plug.  And notice that when they cut to commercial after Varner's first spiel, you hear Probst saying, "I'll circle back..." as they trail off.  So before the mics were even off, Jeff Varner, Mr. It's Not About Me It's About Zeke, was complaining that he didn't get his book plug in, with his amazing new job plug.  But it's not about Jeff's shame.  Which is why HE's written a book.  Fame hos.... what ya gonna do.  

Me too. I still think he made this bed entirely on his own and he deserved to have to lie in it, but I felt some sympathy for him having to rehash it. But then his dig at the company who fired him, followed by his book plug turned me back to thinking he needs to lie in that bed awhile longer. 

Between the plug-fest and Jeff's (admittedly obstructed by Brad) extremely long, drawn out fantasy revote with Tai in the F3, he ended up ignoring half the cast. Not that he doesn't usually, but I think he would have had more time if he hadn't needed to show Brad what he (and all of us) already knew...not taking Tai was the mistake of his game. In other news, grass is green and water's wet. Thanks Jeff! 

[Special K]

2 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I totally got Ozzy backing Brad. He was basically voting for himself.

Yes, and Debbie NOT voting for Sarah was the same petulant jealousy she unleashed on Hali for no reason.  I don't think she likes to saa any other woman to do better than she does.

[valandsend]

My first thought when I saw Brad at the reunion was that his stylist must have dressed him out of vengeance.

I wonder how long the TC took when Cirie left. It was edited very well, I thought, to make it seem as if Jeff had the answer immediately to the rest of the players being immune after the vote. It seems more likely that this unlikely event would have thrown him and the other producers for a while.

[Negritude]

2 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Good points.  I totally got Ozzy backing Brad. He was basically voting for himself.  To vote for Sarah, he'd have to admit the difficult truth that he has been playing Survivor stupidly all these years. 

Yep...stupidly and boringly. I want to see twists and turns and scheming and plotting and backstabbing. If I just wanted to watch athletic prowess, I'll watch sports.

[Special K]

I can't believe I've gone this long and forgotten to mention the burlap sack Culpepper was wearing as a tunic during the final episode!  Was that the rice sack or something?  Seriously, it makes me laugh even now!!

[blackwing]

3 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

Who was Brad's 3rd vote? I know Ozzy and Debbie, but who else? 

Sierra voted for Brad.   Not surprised.  I did like what she said to Sarah about how hurt she was.  Sierra's decision to give the advantage to Sarah saved Sarah, because without it, Sarah would have gone home during the Cirie vote since most people voted for her.  Sarah at least could have thanked her.

[valandsend]

To Brad, Ozzy and everyone else who claimed to be a fan of the game while insisting that winning multiple challenges is enough reason to be voted Sole Survivor, I wanted to scream, "Have you never heard of Kelly Wiglesworth?"

2 minutes ago, Special K said:

I can't believe I've gone this long and forgotten to mention the burlap sack Culpepper was wearing as a tunic during the final episode!  Was that the rice sack or something?  Seriously, it makes me laugh even now!!

I wondered what happened to his shirt to make him have to wear that.

[ljenkins782]

2 minutes ago, Special K said:

I can't believe I've gone this long and forgotten to mention the burlap sack Culpepper was wearing as a tunic during the final episode!  Was that the rice sack or something?  Seriously, it makes me laugh even now!!

Ha, I forgot about that too! WTF was that? His regular shirt was dirty, so he "dressed up" in the only relatively clean fabric they had?? Honestly, I don't think he wore a shirt for more than 30 seconds the entire season so it really should have been fairly clean. 

[BTBAM310]

12 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Each season it breaks my heart when Probst doesn't take the urn and jet-ski back to the States :(  I'm happy for Officer Sarah! Culpepper deserved to lose based on that pornstache alone.

Who do I have to bribe/kill/seduce in order to get a season with no twists and zero idols? Because that first TC was ridiculous! Granted, I'm extra salty because it was Cirie who got idoled out of the game, but that would have been such a bullshit way to go out, no matter who it happened to.  All those days of playing and strategizing and you can still get knocked out of the game, with ZERO votes, because of 4 different advantages...that needs to be fixed.

All in all, not a great season imo. Losing Malcolm and Sandra before jury and then Ozzy shortly after really sucked. We were left with a competent but boring final 5. I still can't believe Troyzan made it to the final 3. That pretty much sums up the quality of this season.

Sandra, as always, was my favourite part of the show. "Survivor is my job. I have 39 days to get the million dollars." I love her so much! 

I keep hoping they once again have Jeff using a machete to hack his way back to the reunion.

[Negritude]

5 minutes ago, Special K said:

I can't believe I've gone this long and forgotten to mention the burlap sack Culpepper was wearing as a tunic during the final episode!  Was that the rice sack or something?  Seriously, it makes me laugh even now!!

[Ms Blue Jay]

10 hours ago, princelina said:

I have too - and I do know why!  In his first season, when it was so obvious that he was getting voted out by the women that they couldn't even edit it for suspense, the ladies just expected him to "take it" and he talked back to them, and for some reason that made me chuckle and like him in spite of himself, and when I posted thusly on TWOP, some douchebag PMd me after he got voted out and said, "Haha, you stupid fucking bitch".  So this season I had a liking for him just because :)

Wow.  I've received a PM like this too, so I think I know who messaged you.

[valandsend]

Did Jeff Varner say something about his book being about his "year" of shame? If no one outside the show knew what he did until that episode aired, how can it be a year (except for his own personal feelings of guilt)?

Anyway, it was sure obvious that Zeke was holding his tongue and did not approve.

[ItsJessMe]

2 hours ago, Drogo said:

The very beautiful

  Hide contents

Cydney of Kaoh Rong

went to UPenn. 

Thank you!!

[Special K]

5 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

Ha, I forgot about that too! WTF was that? His regular shirt was dirty, so he "dressed up" in the only relatively clean fabric they had?? Honestly, I don't think he wore a shirt for more than 30 seconds the entire season so it really should have been fairly clean. 

Yeah, it was like suddenly he got modest and had to fashion a shirt for himself.  I don't recall him wearing a shirt at all.  It did give him a kind of sad-sack hobo look at FTC, maybe it was a tactic?  You know how you borrow your brothers old beater to drive to the car dealership, so the salesman doesn't think you're rich.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Special K

[laurakaye]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I still love Michaela, Tai, Cirie, Zeke, Caleb, Haili, most of those people in the back row, but I'm very ready for some brand new people.  Even with contrived labels like Healers, Helpers, Hustlers, Housewives, Hotties or Heffers.  Just bring them on.

ALL NEW PEOPLE.  New new new!  Please, all new!  As much as I love Ozzy, Malcolm, Joe, Cirie...I don't want to see them anymore.  They've gotten their 15 minutes of fame and then some.  That's why, for me as a viewer, I frequently felt like I was being taken right out of the show...that I was watching a group of good friends "play-act" Survivor, playing to their Survivor character, while Jeff - bestie to all - lobbed softball TC questions at them in a rushed fashion, as if he were waiting for it to be over so he could hang out and drink margaritas with the cool kids at Ponderosa.  It bugged me to no end.

 

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

Exactly. If you lie back and think your social game will do it, or that you can strategize better than anyone else, it won't matter if everyone around you has an idol.

I do hope production/Jeff takes a look at the fallout from having so many rewards, advantages, idols, etc., and scales back. I would dearly love for one season with no idols, no advantages. Just people playing hard to be the last one standing.

+10000000000. 

Other things:

Since when has music been played over the entire conversations at TC?  I really noticed it last night.  It was super distracting.

Were the female jury members trying to out-do each other's outfits, makeup and hair?  Cirie's eyelashes must've weighed a pound each, and did I see Andrea wearing a black bustier?  What was going on there?  

Man, I really struggled with this season.  I thought the returning players concept would be so interesting.  Turned out, not so much.  I swear, they were all "playing" Survivor, not playing Survivor.  The editing was so wonky, Jeff was just plain odd, puzzle after puzzle after puzzle, reactions that didn't jibe with what we, as viewers, were seeing - all around, the worst season so far, IMO.  And that's saying something, as I am currently re-watching the White/Blue/No Collar season, where 75% of the cast got on my last nerve.

Edited May 25, 2017 by laurakaye

[HahYallDoin]

34 minutes ago, Special K said:

This look says:  "Has she even read Macbeth?!?"  And also:  "Get some friggin perspective, lady!"

Michaela's face and reluctance to hug Debbie at the end of the reunion was also quite funny. Too bad I deleted it last night so I can't post the pic. 

As they all stood up and began hugging one another, Michaela was briefly alone and saw the camera was focused on her part of the stage. She stood there a moment, looked around and Debbie was also standing alone. So, they walked toward one another and hugged. Michaela gave a one armed hug and, of course, Debbie went full on hug and began talking in her ear. Michaela, aware the camera was still on her, gave her best WTF glance and a gritted teeth 'smile' that said 'this witch is craaaazy and I want her off me NOW!' 

The camera then panned elsewhere and at the very end caught Debbie and Hali hugging. There was enough room in between them for a marching band to pass as a result of Hali not going full on hug. Good old Debbie, to be avoided like the plague! This is result of her personality and she earned the scorn without a damn doubt! 

[Wings]

1 minute ago, laurakaye said:

Since when has music been played over the entire conversations at TC?  I really noticed it last night.  It was super distracting.

Your TV should have a setting for sound, music, conversation etc.  The music was not overpowering for me, it is set on conversation or dialog, something like that. 

 

2 minutes ago, HahYallDoin said:

Michaela's face and reluctance to hug Debbie at the end of the reunion was also quite funny.

Loved that! 

[simplyme]

5 minutes ago, HahYallDoin said:

As they all stood up and began hugging one another, Michaela was briefly alone and saw the camera was focused on her part of the stage. She stood there a moment, looked around and Debbie was also standing alone. So, they walked toward one another and hugged. Michaela gave a one armed hug and, of course, Debbie went full on hug and began talking in her ear. Michaela, aware the camera was still on her, gave her best WTF glance and a gritted teeth 'smile' that said 'this witch is craaaazy and I want her off me NOW!' 

Ha! We noticed that too! SimplyMom started voicing Michaela's thoughts: "Get her off! Get her off before I take her down!"

[Bryce Lynch]

9 minutes ago, HahYallDoin said:

Michaela's face and reluctance to hug Debbie at the end of the reunion was also quite funny. Too bad I deleted it last night so I can't post the pic. 

As they all stood up and began hugging one another, Michaela was briefly alone and saw the camera was focused on her part of the stage. She stood there a moment, looked around and Debbie was also standing alone. So, they walked toward one another and hugged. Michaela gave a one armed hug and, of course, Debbie went full on hug and began talking in her ear. Michaela, aware the camera was still on her, gave her best WTF glance and a gritted teeth 'smile' that said 'this witch is craaaazy and I want her off me NOW!' 

The camera then panned elsewhere and at the very end caught Debbie and Hali hugging. There was enough room in between them for a marching band to pass as a result of Hali not going full on hug. Good old Debbie, to be avoided like the plague! This is result of her personality and she earned the scorn without a damn doubt! 

I noticed the Michaela/Debbie awkward hug as well.  It seemed like Michaela sort of hesitated before joining the hugfest,(she doesn't seem like the touchy feely type), then decided to find somebody to hug, but then realized Debbie was standing in front of her.  

I hope this traumatic experience doesn't permanently deter Micheala's efforts to become more comfortable with hugging people outside her closest inner circle. :)

Edited May 25, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Guest]

I was going to say Brad can't be all that smart if he tried to file a disability claim for a period when he was playing Survivor, but I didn't realize then he was an ambulance chaser.  That entire field is basically insurance fraud.  Why not jump on the free money bandwagon?  It's victimless.  Except that the 99% of us who don't commit the crime are the victims and pay the settlements for the creeps who do the crime.  

And having wasted a week on a jury for some bullshit auto accident claim, I resent it from that perspective, too.  

32 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

To me, there has to be some foreshadowing to it. The show isn't being broadcast live -- it's an edited product. If you know he eventually goes back to being a jerk, you find ways to show that he's still a jerk. They should not have made his edit about what a changed man he is. Again, make him faceless. What seriously was the point in humanizing him if the editors knew it ended badly for him?

I can think of two reasons they edited Brad to be decent until the end.  1) Suspense.  As it was, most of us could tell Sarah was the winner weeks ago.  If Brad had been shown to be a shit, Tai as Tai and Troy as a nothingburger, the finale would've been a foregone conclusion entirely.  

And 2) the home viewing audience already refused to send Brad back to play when it was up to us.  So tptb blatantly ignored us by bringing him back this season.  By not showing his assiness til the end, they avoided several months of being hated on by viewers.  

[BTBAM310]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

Sarah is a cop, and knows how to read people.  She knew that the advantage was non-transferrable before she gave it to Cirie as a sign of trust.  

Put it in this context.  A cop (or ANYONE with a grain of sense) is not going to hand a loaded gun to a criminal in a life-or-death situation and say, "I'm going to let you HOLD this is a sign of trust."  Because they know that if the gun is loaded, they're going to end up dead.  

Sarah ain't stupid.  She knew she was NOT going to lose that advantage; Cirie would have either shown herself to be trustworthy, or she would have exposed herself for the non-trustworthy person she was.

And I'm in the minority camp here, but I loved the TC when everyone played their idols and advantages.  I love a good scramble - and it's all part of the "Outlast" part of the game.

John McClain proved that a long time ago

[fishcakes]

I missed all the Debbie hug avoidance, but I did notice that after the vote was read but before the first set of commercials, Brad was hugging Tai, which makes me think his later apology and hug were probably genuine. But he lifted him off the ground both times, which seems sort of unnecessarily aggressive, so I think it was more like he actually was sorry, but also wanted Tai to know he could kill him with his bare hands.

58 minutes ago, blackwing said:

If he has only gone to trial once, then I would agree that he might have overemphasised his trial experience.  However, even if he doesn't go to trial, I would imagine he has still developed skills in negotiation and persuasion.  He still has to get the opposing side to accept his offer.  So there are some skills there that he must have.  He just didn't articulate himself very well.  And I disagree that Sarah as a police officer has "significantly" more experience talking to juries.  Not sure how often she is in court to give testimony, but in her role, that's all it is.... testimony.  If she gets called to appear at trial, in her capacity as a police officer, all she is there is to give an account of the facts.  She's not there to persuade the jury, and she's not there to talk to the jury.  She's there to answer the lawyers' questions.  I do agree that she accounted for herself well at TC but I think she was also helped by Brad's ineffectiveness.

Brad's a PI plaintiff's attorney so he doesn't make offers; he accepts them and apparently all the time. I agree he probably does have some negotiation skills, but in the end, the defense attorneys know he's going to accept less than the case is worth to get out of going to trial (whether because he's greedy, lazy, or just afraid, I don't know, but I suspect a combination of all three), so in reality he's not swaying them much, if at all. As for Sarah, police officers are professional witnesses; they are very much there to persuade the jury and they're good at it. I've crossed officers on the stand, and it's more difficult than with ordinary witnesses because police officers know how to look the jurors in the eye, not let the questioning get under their skin, and how to deflect effectively. Sarah's answer to Andrea's question was a good example of this because the question was basically a more graceful version of Eliza's, "my question is: APOLOGIZE TO ME," but Sarah's answer was, "look, my job requires that I lie all the time and endanger myself for the good of society. Lying keeps me alive." Not only did Sarah not apologize for her gameplay, but she made Andrea's question look sort of petty, because the meaning was, "how can you question my integrity? I put my life on the line for people like you every day!" but the delivery was such that it almost made made you feel sorry for her because she's out there having to pretend to be a user or a prostitute. If Brad were really the trial genius he claims to be, he would have been all over that deflection.

Edited May 25, 2017 by fishcakes

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, ItsJessMe said:

2. I loved Michaela's question to Brad and his stumbling over the answer.  But he said she went to Texas Christian U.  I clearly remember from her first season her saying she went to UPenn.  She didn't correct him at final tribal though.  I'm confused.

That was an incredible TV moment.  She got him so good.  Brad:  "uhhhhhhhh buhhhhhhhh What do you want from me?"  Wow.  LOL.  

[Daisy]

1 minute ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

That was an incredible TV moment.  She got him so good.  Brad:  "uhhhhhhhh buhhhhhhhh What do you want from me?"  Wow.  LOL.  

LOL right? and I think the lack of correction was more of when she turned to Cirie and they both mouthed. "WOW" at each other. they both know that Brad was dead wrong. 

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, Daisy said:

LOL right? and I think the lack of correction was more of when she turned to Cirie and they both mouthed. "WOW" at each other. they both know that Brad was dead wrong. 

What was so great about it is Michaela didn't say Brad didn't make personal connections, she made Brad show it.  I think Michaela would be a better trial attorney than Brad.  

[Special K]

2 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

What was so great about it is Michaela didn't say Brad didn't make personal connections, she made Brad show it.  I think Michaela would be a better trial attorney than Brad.  

Yeah, and if he was smart, it could have been a gimme.  I mean he could have used the opening to go on and on about all the things that make Michaela great, complimenting her, even if he didn't have actual facts!

[HahYallDoin]

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

(Seriously men, there is just no call to wear short-sleeved dress shirts. Ever.) 

Agreed. But then again, button downs aren't dress shirts and shouldn't be worn with a tie ever. That's why proper dress shirts only come in long sleeve but button downs come in both long and short sleeves. Pet Peeve of mind...you know, some of us crazy Southerners(who aren't ancient but rather 41 LOL) observe the old fashioned 'rules' like no white before Easter or after Labor Day, small children wear smocked corduroy Bishops and John-Johns for Christmas even though it's very likely the a/c is running, no caps or hats inside unless its women in church, etc. LOL

Good old Brad also wore a button down with his suit in a picture for his law firm posted by someone else. At least his brother-in-law knew better. 

Sorry for the thread drift but again, pet peeve of mine. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by HahYallDoin
Typo

[Callaphera]

6 hours ago, Nashville said:

Was it just me, or did anybody else think when Aubry made her first Jury appearance she looked absolutely smoking hawt...?  :)

Probably my favourite thing about this season (which I think says something), because the look on Mr. Callaphera's face when she made the transformation from Survivor Aubrey to Jury Aubrey was amazing. Her reunion look wasn't as flattering but hot damn, that jury appearance.