Deception - General Discussion

[kaygeeret]

Quote

Quote

7 hours ago, meira.hand said:

On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 9:45 PM, kaygeeret said:

I liked the show, but I love Alan Cummings enough that it is on the list to be recorded.

Aren't you confusing Deception with Instinct?

 

 

My bad, you are absolurely right.  Thanks

[Charlesman]

On 3/13/2018 at 5:33 PM, Tachi Rocinante said:

It was a variation on a do-it-yourself online trick that made the rounds on the internet a few years ago.  It was in a cave or something like that.

 

It's an old trick, I think even David Copperfield used it in an old special--it's basically the only card trick you ever see on TV because it's the only "pick a card" variant that works on television

[Natalie25]

I'm really liking this show! It sort of reminds me of White Collar. It's a great light hearted procedural. I actually really liked the scenes in the prison, I hope they show more of that too. I like Cameron and his team, but I don't really care too much for the FBI agents.

[ohjoy]

I get more Castle vibes, but I agree -- this is a fun lighthearted procedural. I like Cameron and his team, and I like that Cameron seems  to be generally a happy person, despite the shadowy childhood. Jonathan continues to intrigue me; I'm curious how he was with Cameron and the team before the murder setup. Maybe we'll get flashbacks at some point.

[mertensia]

I like the show, but let me just say I am sad I am watching Vinnie Jones on an ABC show on a Sunday night and he's not in medieval garb singing. 

I didn't catch that the docent was in on it.

Maybe the bicolor-eyes gal really was after Jonathan.

[Sandman]

I missed the second episode, but I liked this one a lot -- it was pretty well put together. I didn't twig to the idea that the docent might be in on it until quite late in the episode, when she was talking about the wanting to be an art restorer -- the line between restorer and forger is always the faintest possible brushstroke in mystery / caper shows like this. But I did notice that when Joan was coming into the gallery, the custodian seemed to catch the camera's attention for a significant, though brief, interval. I figured Cameron had tipped to Joan by the time he asked her to lunch, though. Cameron's escape from the car while managing to stop the goons and keep the person of interest in custody was a nifty maneuver.

I continue to like Cameron and most of his team -- I still can't warm to Vinnie Jones (everyone connected in any way to "I'm the Juggernaut, bitch!" should grow headfirst in the ground like turnips) -- and I haven't made up my mind about Jonny. I don't think he's the Evil Twin, but he's certainly the Angry Twin. The FBI agents, including Kay, could have been way more strait-laced and obnoxious, but it makes much more sense for Mike to be the starry-eyed one where Cameron is concerned. Jack Cutmore-Scott is a real charmer in the role of Cameron. I'm satisfied so far that he's distinguishing Jonathan and Cameron sufficiently, based on what I've seen.

The comparisons to both Castle and White Collar make sense to me. The "civilian-with-specialized-skills aids law enforcement" premise is at least as old as Jessica Fletcher, I guess, and still going strong. I thought the stage magician's skill set might be a bit of stretch, but so far it's working.

I just realized Chris Fedak was also a producer and writer for Chuck, which might explain why I'm liking this one so much. (Of course, nothing can quite explain Legends of Tomorrow -- at least not to me.)

Edited April 3, 2018 by Sandman

[chitowngirl]

Not a spoiler but a speculation-that for some reason Cameron and Johnathon will switch places because there is something that only Johnathon can do for the case of the week. And then Cameron will be stuck in jail because Johnathon will take off.

[Kimmel77]

I knew it was the son from the beginning, because in these shows its always one of the few peripheral characters they bring in in the first few minutes of the show. I didn't suspect the woman but guessed something was up when they freed her half way through the episode. Overall, this is getting boring. The main character performs some long ass illusion, tells us how he does it and then gets himself in a situation where he is at the opposite end of a gun and must be saved.

 

I do now wonder if this is an elaborate plot by the twin to replace his brother and have him suffer by living the rest of his days in prison. But, as an illusionist, I doubt he would have much trouble getting out. So maybe he's waiting for something and/or is looking for something (with his magician's assistant! on the outside).

[Lady Calypso]

I don't know how they got me to enjoy this show in four short episodes. I realize that if they cancel it for whatever reason, I'm going to be disappointed. I might go as far as saying that this is my favourite freshman show of this TV season. It legit makes me really happy. It's not anything groundbreaking, but it's fun. 

I'm now wary on whether Jonathan's always been shady and has had some grand plan all along to land him in jail, or if he's been actually innocent but jail is going to change him. I will say, Jack Cutmore-Scott is really selling both roles. He makes Jonathan so different from Cameron, it's unbelievable at times to think they're played by the same actor. He's not Tatiana Maslany levels of good, but he's possibly the best male actor I've seen in recent years to play a double role with such ease. 

I actually really liked Vivian. More to the point, I was thinking that I saw some actual chemistry between Vivian and Cameron, so I'm glad she at least got to live, even though we'll likely never see her again. I thought she had a really fun dynamic with Cameron, and I think it helped him with his brother a little bit. 

As for the supporting characters, I'd really like to get to know them as people. Hopefully that can happen soon because I can barely remember all of their names.

[threebluestars]

I wasn't sure about this at first, but I'm really enjoying the show now. I think it's entertaining and the lead has really grown on me. I'm interested in the brother's storyline too (and usually I get super bored with side stories).

[mertensia]

This was enjoyable and yeah, if I didn't know better I could believe they were played by twins; the actor makes them believably different.

I think- at this point- Johnnie should be not mingling with the other prisoners. 

[meira.hand]

After looking for an excuse for liking a show that is not very original or deep or very complex, I finally realized why. The TV landscape seems to be divided between original but dark/deep/heavy/violent or insultingly dumb/trite or over the top soap operas. This one manages to be light and fun and while not original, still written well with intelligent characters I enjoy spending time with. They don't manufacture annoying acrimony between them, the stories are interesting and between the many better shows I follow and stress over, this is a great palate cleanser.

[Netfoot]

6 hours ago, mertensia said:

I think- at this point- Johnnie should be not mingling with the other prisoners. 

I think it's time for the team to orchestrate a complex illusionary play to be run inside the prison to put Baldy down hard, and make Johnathan somewhat of an untouchable figure.

[Netfoot]

33 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

it can't be the same type of thing week in and week out.

There is still the entire question of the brown/blue eyed woman who framed Johnathan and got him into prison.  Nothing further about her since the pilot.  There is plenty of scope for development in that direction.  I just hope they don't completely ruin the opportunity with weak plot lines.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I was kind of hoping that she would go toes up.  At some point one of Cameron's schemes needs to tragically fail.  That said, I could see Vivian come back every so often to help Cameron out, assuming she is in some sort of disguise of course.

I agree that one of Cameron's deceptive plans need to fail, but I assume that's going to come up at some point. Right now, though, I agree that they've kind of kept a similar idea going for the last four episodes, so I hope they switch it up soon. But yeah, I'm ok with Vivian not being the failed plan of Cameron's, as I really do like her as a character and really hope she returns if there's a second season. 

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I could also perhaps see a scenario where Cameron voluntarily swaps places with his brother in prison for a short period of time, in an effort to help his brother out.  Of course that would have to be kept between the two brothers.

I have to imagine that's going to be a plot for the end of the season, and either that's Jonathan's plan in order to escape (I hope not because that would hurt his relationship with Cameron), or it's just a one episode to give Jonathan a chance to interact with the deception team and the FBI. I'm actually curious to see how sullen, cynical Jonathan works with Kay. I think Kay's more similar to Jonathan than she is to Cameron, so it'll be interesting to see them clash, even if Jonathan is fooling Kay and the FBI as well. 

I am still wondering if Jonathan has this grand plan to deceive his brother, or if he'll turn out to be good and it's their father who will turn up at the end of the season. Even though we've only heard about Sebastian Black once, I totally don't think he's a good father so I assume they may want to introduce him at some point. Plus, it would be a typical TV trope right behind the good twin/evil twin trope. 

[TheRabbi]

On 3/27/2018 at 4:32 PM, icemiser69 said:

There seems to be a lot of shows that use the "buddy system".

Lucifer:  The Devil becomes a police consultant.

Castle: writer becomes a police consultant.

Deception: Magician and his crew consultants/work with the FBI

White Collar: con artist/informant works with FBI

There are more, but you get my point.  Kind of a trend.

 

Sleepy Hollow, Elementary, Blindspot, Instinct, tons!! Cop show 101. I wish there were some more original ideas, but this show is fun enough.

Edited April 2, 2018 by TheRabbi

[rho]

Vivian's reading about Jonathan having a darkness to him was pretty heavy-handed. I wish the show would focus a little more on Jonathan's life inside prison and what Cameron is actually doing to help his case. I wouldn't hate it if they clued us in to the dynamic between the two of them before the murder plot.

It reminds me a lot of The Prestige, spoilers ahead if you haven't seen it: 

Spoiler

The twin magicians in that movie took turns doing the tricks and taking the bow at the end. They were as equal as possible in a situation where they share a single identity. But it's different on this show in that Cameron did all the tricks while Jonathan, even though he didn't get the name credit, was the one to receive the applause. I wonder if that made Jonathan resent Cameron.

I definitely don't trust Jonathan and I am fully expecting him to betray his brother in the season finale. It's inevitable after hearing Vivian address "his darkness." My first thought that was that he staged the crime just so he could reveal his existence to the world. But if that's the case, why not frame his brother, let him take the fall and then launch relaunch his career as Jonathan Black.

[Guest]

Does anyone know who played the angry art owner? I can’t find it anywhere but he looked so familiar!

I like this show. I’ve watched three episodes in two days. 

[Cigale]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

Does anyone know who played the angry art owner? I can’t find it anywhere but he looked so familiar!

I like this show. I’ve watched three episodes in two days. 

John Shea

[ohjoy]

John Shea, a.k.a. '90s Lex Luthor (from Lois & Clark) -- at least, that's the character I always remember.

[Mystery]

I actually felt sorry for Jonathan when Vivian (I loved the actress) talked about his darkness. He's in JAIL. He has to do things to survive, whether his brother asks him or not. I keep wondering if he would have done better if the father had the brothers alternate between being the star and being the other one. I'm not sure I understand their dynamic, even now. Was Cam faking his tricks, by having Jon help him? 

[Lady Calypso]

7 hours ago, Mystery said:

I actually felt sorry for Jonathan when Vivian (I loved the actress) talked about his darkness. He's in JAIL. He has to do things to survive, whether his brother asks him or not. I keep wondering if he would have done better if the father had the brothers alternate between being the star and being the other one. I'm not sure I understand their dynamic, even now. Was Cam faking his tricks, by having Jon help him? 

Cameron definitely tries to have a more optimistic outlook on life, while Jonathan's very cynical, yet probably also very realistic. Cameron hasn't figured out that jail is going to change Jonathan because he has to survive, especially with everyone knowing about Cameron Black having a twin. I think their father gave his sons a very skewed and messed up childhood which has affected both of them, but moreso Jonathan. From what I understand, Jonathan was only used for the bigger tricks, when Cameron literally had to be in two places at once. Otherwise, Jonathan was either hidden away or he had to be Cameron out in public. Of course that's going to mess up any thirty year old. 

[janeta]

So how long to we think it’s going to be before Cam and Jon end up switching places for some reason? And then of course, Jon won't want to go back to jail....

[Lady Calypso]

Well, that was completely obvious, but I'm still enjoying this show a lot. Jack Cutmore-Scott continues to prove why I keep coming back. His portrayals of Cameron and Johnathan have been so well done. Johnathan got a little more layers this episode, as did Dina. Maybe I missed it from the pilot, but I had no idea Johnathan and Dina had a former relationship, or feelings for each other. The funny thing is that I don't feel any romantic chemistry toward Cameron and Dina, but I actually saw some chemistry between her and Johnathan. I liked seeing Johnathan become vulnerable around her, because he's been very closed off with his brother. Those scenes worked well. I did note the venom in Johnathan's voice as he brushed off Dina's comment about Cameron being optimistic. It did get me right back on the suspicion train in his involvement with his whole sent to prison plot, but I feel like he has more unpented anger and jealousy over Cameron, since Cameron was clearly the favoured twin (mostly judging by their father choosing Cameron to be the face and star of his show). It's so interesting as well to see Cameron blinded from all of this. 

Although, my suspicion of Johnathan is lessening by the episode. I'll always be suspicious to an extent, but now I feel like this has to do with their father. 

Seriously, though, these brothers do not have some dream life in any way. Their father literally had them on the road and even taught them how to fight in order to survive. I can't even imagine how young they were when they started those lessons. 

So, the case in itself was completely predictable because you don't just cast Billy Zane for one scene and then kill him off. I knew he was Bishop and had the entire heist planned as soon as Kay mentioned that he had "died". I then suspected that Cameron was right about him being connected to Lady Eyes.

I actually really like the tidbit about Cameron not being good at street art. Nor was he good at parkour, so he struggled at that. And even Jordan decided to take over with finding the pattern in the art before Cameron could try his own tricks on it. 

I still am extremely curious to see how the rest of the season plays out. It really is a fun show to watch. I really am fascinated by Cameron and Johnathan the most, but everyone else really works well around them. Though Cameron keeps getting punched in the face, so at least this time, he wasn't knocked out. 

[mertensia]

This was good, and I also liked that apparently Cameron is not the go to guy for good artwork.

Who else here is wondering if their dad is John Winchester? Just me? *skulks away*

Billy Zane! Haven't seen him for years!

[ohjoy]

4 hours ago, mertensia said:

Who else here is wondering if their dad is John Winchester? Just me? *skulks away*

Not just you — although it confirms for me what’s sucking me into this show: the brothers’ relationship (surprise surprise). I like everybody fine for the most part, but Jack Cutmore-Scott is really making the brothers interesting as separate people. Sibling relationships are my thing (especially when the childhood leaves a lot of stones to overturn), so I’m definitely in for more.

[Netfoot]

Obvious and predictable.

[Netfoot]

52 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Fighting isn't something that I would think anyone would want to do, but if there isn't any other options, it is nice to know that someone is prepared just in case.

Even if other options do exist, it is NOT wise to choose the path of victimhood.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Netfoot
Because I had it backwards.

[Lady Calypso]

So, here's some possible good news for the show (or bad, depending on the time slot): the seventh episode is actually going to be airing on Tuesday April 24th in the 10pm slot, replacing a repeat episode for other freshman show, For The People. 

Next Sunday won't have any new episodes, but the week after will be airing two new episodes on the 22nd and 24th. That...could actually be a glimmer of hope for the show, if it's trusting enough to not necessarily move to a new night permanently, but airing two new episodes in the same week. I don't expect the Tuesday episode rating to be strong, but I'm hoping it adds some more eyeballs and doesn't drop. 

I'm not sure whether they're doing this because one of their Sunday slots has been unexpectedly taken away for some sports thing or this was a decision made by the network to try to boost the show but either way, I'm excited. 

To take a look at typical Tuesday ratings, the show will be in competition and might just meet For The People's already low numbers, but ABC has a really strong night with Roseanne kicking it off, so there's also a chance it could help. I'm hopeful either way that it's a good sign that the network is pushing for the show to do well. Why put a new show on in that timeslot, after all? 

[notcreative enough]

I guess I'm in the minority because now more than ever I think Jonathan is the bad guy. From his " but you found no clues" and Cameron telling him that they did and it's all connected. He seemed more of shit and less woohoo. I kinda thought that Dina and the FBI guy were having a moment and that they might be something but with her history with Jonathan they only way would be if he is the bad guy or I guess he could die.

Don't know who you were trying to full Deception but no one believes that you would cast Billy Zane and then kill him. Nope. You should have had a huge arrow pointing to him that said "BAD GUY"

[dargosmydaddy]

Agreed that the brothers are the best part of the show. I loved the juxtaposition of the fight scenes, and both of them asking about the other's bruise. I am very intrigued by Johnathan. Hope he doesn't turn out to be a villain, but I'm cool with him being a gray character, or just a grumpy, pessimistic one.

[Lady Calypso]

16 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Agreed that the brothers are the best part of the show. I loved the juxtaposition of the fight scenes, and both of them asking about the other's bruise. I am very intrigued by Johnathan. Hope he doesn't turn out to be a villain, but I'm cool with him being a gray character, or just a grumpy, pessimistic one.

I would hate for Jonathan to turn out bad for the sole reason that I like the brothers being so different from one another. I don't mind if he makes shady and morally grey decisions, but I don't want this to be some grand scheme of his. 

1 minute ago, icemiser69 said:

Interesting, I never thought of that.  I was thinking that Jonathan was just being cynical.  Given that Jonathan is in prison, it shouldn't be all that surprising that he is a Debbie Downer.  Jonathan comes across as a guy that just doesn't have much faith in his brother.

It's not even just about not having faith and being cynical, but also growing up literally in the shadow of his twin. He had to be his twin and never got to be just Jonathan. That's why I hope that, if there is a season 2, Jonathan isn't a bad guy so he can finally be his own person in the world. 

[ohjoy]

5 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's not even just about not having faith and being cynical, but also growing up literally in the shadow of his twin. He had to be his twin and never got to be just Jonathan. That's why I hope that, if there is a season 2, Jonathan isn't a bad guy so he can finally be his own person in the world. 

I think this is why I’m interested in Jonathan’s prior relationship with Dina. She is someone who saw Cameron and Jonathan as two separate people, and she chose Jonathan. And he hurt her, but they clearly still care about each other. I’m curious to learn more about Dina, and about Jonathan through her eyes. And frankly, about Cameron through her eyes as well. I just think she potentially has great insight into the Black family.

[jbrecken]

Oddly, the "civilian works with cops to solve crimes" show this reminds me the most of is Numb3rs, because Cameron is more than just one guy; he has a whole team of non-cops.  And there's a strong sense of family that holds everyone together.

[Lady Calypso]

29 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Do we know who made that decision?  Did Jonathan have any real  choice, other than being the hidden brother of the magician?  Cameron seems to be far more charismatic than Jonathan,  I can't imagine their roles being reversed.  That said, if Jonathan wanted to be his own man and go his own way, as an adult, I don't know what would have stopped him. 

I would assume their father made the decision. The two boys would have been very young when Sebastian decided to put them in his show, as nobody knew about Jonathan. He would have had to make the decision on which boy to be "the public face" so to speak, and whatever the boys were like at their young age, their father clearly thought Cameron was the better choice. Jonathan never really got the chance before he was already assigned the secret brother, so it shaped who he turned out to be. 

19 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

In general, I don't think learning how to fight as a kid is a bad thing.  I never learned, I wish I had.  I was raised with the ignore them, avoid them, stay away from them, and they will eventually (on their terms) leave you alone philosophy.  That never worked for me. Walking away isn't always an option, and there does reach a point where if you always flee, you never learn to stand up for yourself.   That can lead to a very isolated path for any child.  Fighting isn't something that I would think anyone would want to do, but if there isn't any other options, it is nice to know that someone is prepared just in case.

It's definitely not a bad thing to know how to fight. What bothers me is that the twins needed to learn to survive as kids. Again, just further proof in how their father's choices influenced them, and not really in a good way. We haven't met the guy, we've barely heard anything about him, but I hate him the more we learn about him. He messed up his kids; he sounds like a very selfish person. Sure, he taught his boys to fight and protect themselves, but he also put them in the position where they needed to do that in the first place. 

[Lady Calypso]

20 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Any anger that Jonathan may have, should be direct at is father, not his brother.  I do understand Jonathan's frustration with Cameron, it just seems that Cameron just doesn't get what Jonathan is going through.  Jonathan has to do what he has to do to survive in prison, I don't think Cameron understands that.

For sure, but since we don't know where Sebastian is, I can see Jonathan misplacing his anger with Cameron. It's not fair, but it's a human response. He still seems to care about his brother, but also has other feelings toward him that makes their relationship complex. I mean, Cameron doesn't even see the anger that his brother has, so there's a disconnect between both of them. Cameron's optimistic outlook on life and overall positive response to the world they grew up in counters Jonathan's more cynical and possible realistic look on the situation. And I think, if the series does continue, it'll have to go toward Cameron understanding the childhood him and Jonathan grew up in is not a positive one and has messed his brother up more than he realizes. 

And, in that sense, it's why I'm loving the series so far. There's some cliches here and there, but the Black family is what interests me the most, as it's not just a simple situation. Cameron and Jonathan's team interests me as well. The FBI portion, on the other hand, is pretty blah because I've been there, done that, so they can stay as supporting to the other, more interesting, aspect of the show. 

[ursula]

10 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I would assume their father made the decision. The two boys would have been very young when Sebastian decided to put them in his show, as nobody knew about Jonathan. He would have had to make the decision on which boy to be "the public face" so to speak, and whatever the boys were like at their young age, their father clearly thought Cameron was the better choice. Jonathan never really got the chance before he was already assigned the secret brother, so it shaped who he turned out to be. 

Won't they have just taken turns? We do see Jonathan in the spot light in the Pilot so we know he has spotlight charisma.

[Lady Calypso]

Just now, ursula said:

Won't they have just taken turns? We do see Jonathan in the spot light in the Pilot so we know he has spotlight charisma.

Well, because he's playing "Cameron". He's not being himself. He couldn't introduce himself to a woman as Jonathan. They took turns, but it was always as Cameron, whether or not Cameron was the twin in public.

[ursula]

Mmmm good point. In the

Spoiler

Prestige,

Magician twins amalgamated their names. So they were both literally living half a life, not one in the shadow of the other although it's implied that one would have been happier  retiring and is being dragged along by his brother's ambition.

I think this show would have been interesting that way, with Cameron needing to reinvent his image as well as discovering how to live a full life, not half one. 

Indeed, this show might be more interesting if it was Cameron behind bars and Jonathan a free man both literally and figuratively.

[Eneya]

This is reminding me of the movie Prestige with

Spoiler

the twins living as one person.

:)
The woman with the eyes may simply have heterochromia and i find it lovely. :)

The actors are amasing and it is both cheesy and fun. I love it.

Edited April 12, 2018 by garnetarden
added spoiler tags

[rhys]

Some (many?) identical twins are mirror images of each other, tho and that leads to one being left handed and the other being right handed. If Jon & Cam were really twins & had differing "handedness" dad may not have been able to use them interchangeably.

[Lady Calypso]

8 minutes ago, rhys said:

Some (many?) identical twins are mirror images of each other, tho and that leads to one being left handed and the other being right handed. If Jon & Cam were really twins & had differing "handedness" dad may not have been able to use them interchangeably.

Well, the whole situation with hiding a twin for thirty years without many people finding out is a bit unrealistic in itself to begin with. Having two kids keep it a secret would be tough enough. So if they choose to explain that as people not paying attention or teaching Jonathan extensively to use Cameron's dominant hand, then I'll give a little wiggle room for unrealistic expectations. Of course, that's just because I enjoy the show so much that I'm willing to put up with some of its more unrealistic portions...to an extent.

[Lady Calypso]

4 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Wouldn't Cameron's career as a magician be toast now?  I would think some of his fans would be more than a bit offended that he had a twin who was helping him.  Now, Jonathan no longer needs to hide, and he can do whatever he wants to do, assuming that he gets out of jail. 

It all depends. We haven't gotten to see how his fans have been reacting to this big twin revelation because he's been working for the FBI. If there's a season 2, they may explore Cameron's magician career and how badly it's been affected. But yes, Jonathan is now a free man in the sense that people know he exists. I assume Jonathan will get out of jail, if he's truly a good guy, so he'll be free in the outside world as well to be Jonathan. 

[Sandman]

On 4/2/2018 at 6:34 AM, meira.hand said:

This one manages to be light and fun and while not original, still written well with intelligent characters I enjoy spending time with.

Bingo. This captures the appeal of this show for me precisely. It seems to be a mashup of all the fun parts of Now You See Me (those would be the non-Jesse Eisenberg parts) and The Prestige -- with some White Collar stirred in for good measure. The hotel setting of this episode emphasized the show's debt to Ocean's Eleven (the Soderbergh/Clooney version, not the Rat Pack version, as far as I know), too.

On 4/3/2018 at 10:31 AM, Lady Calypso said:

From what I understand, Jonathan was only used for the bigger tricks, when Cameron literally had to be in two places at once. Otherwise, Jonathan was either hidden away or he had to be Cameron out in public.

From a purely pragmatic point of view, it would probably be easier to have one twin with a life and one hidden one, rather than have the two of them switching places from time to time, which would probably involve both of them having to keep up two double lives. Lots more potential for error that way. I can't imagine what it would do to them to have a father who treated one son like a successor to his magic show "legacy," and the other one like a prop. 

I agree Jack Cutmore-Scott is doing a really nifty job of differentiating between the brothers, and I liked the team dynamics in this episode. I liked the way the three "readers" (Vivian, Cameron and, in her way, Kay) each tried their mojo out on each other. Vivian was a great character (if somewhat heavy-handed with the Significance Bat), and Christine Ko and Jack Cutmore-Scott had nice chemistry.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Sandman

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

We just have to hope that they aren't just trying to burn off episodes.  Normally that is the type of thing that would be done on Saturdays.  However, ABC is running new American Idol episodes on Saturdays which is odd.   It is really hard to tell what the future is for Deception.

I honestly doubt it. The reason why I think they're not burning off episodes is because they're putting a new episode in a timeslot that is actually decent. It's not being thrown on a Saturday, which is where shows go to die quietly. They specifically put it in a Tuesday timeslot, arguably one of the best nights ratings-wise, and it seems like they're trying to salvage their Tuesdays at 10pm timeslot, which For The People has been doing quite poorly in. ABC's best night is also now Tuesdays, thanks to Roseanne, so I think they're hoping for a ratings boost above 4 million, since FTP has been getting lower ratings than that. It seems to be doing well on Sundays regardless, but I see this more as an experiment to see if they can boost the ratings a bit, both for the show and for the network. Of course, I still consider this show as "on the bubble" for renewal, though glancing at the network's current shows in general, I think I'm leaning more toward a renewal than a cancellation. 

FTP seems to be a one and done, Inhumans, The Mayor, and Ten Days in the Valley are already dead, they have Once Upon a Time and The Middle ending this season, and their other newer shows plus Designated Survivor are the ones on the fence for renewal. Deception is doing pretty decently for the network so I don't think they'll cancel it, but it's also not a for sure for renewal. I think that's why they're testing out a Tuesday night timeslot, though glancing at the press release for Tuesday's episode, it's a rather important one and it might have been better to find another episode to throw in there. I mean, it works out well for me, but I also don't think a lot of people know that there'll be a new Tuesday episode. 

[Lady Calypso]

28 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

IIRC, "Kevin (Probably) Saves the World", aired on Tuesday nights at 10:00pm earlier this television season.  I guess that is on the bubble in terms of possibly being cancelled.

Oh yeah, yeah it did. That was another show I watched and it also didn't do great, so maybe it's just that particular timeslot that doesn't do well.

28 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

"The Crossing", I don't think has much of a chance to survive.  I have watched every episode and there really doesn't seem to be much buzz with it.

The Crossing would have been better off as a summer show. I've watched the first two episodes and then skipped episode three. 

28 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I wouldn't be shocked if American Idol was shown the door.   IMO, it has to be struggling if they are airing new episodes on a Saturday.  I think they way overpaid for Katy Perry.

It's hard to say with American Idol, because I think the network really wants it to succeed, as evident by it being brought back less than two years after it was cancelled, but I say just let the show die for the last time. ABC doesn't need American Idol to waste two nights where newer programming could go. Are they airing on a Saturday? I know they air Sundays and Mondays, but I didn't hear about the new Saturday timeslots. 

As for renewal chances, they've already renewed four shows. Greys Anatomy and its new spinoff, Station 19, are for sure renewals. How To Get Away With Murder is a likely renewal for a probable final season. And some of its sitcoms (specifically Splitting Up Together, Fresh Off The Boat, and Black'ish) are likely to get renewed. They also have two ordered-to-series freshman dramas. 

Even taking a look at last season's ratings for their shows, the network cancelled a lot and then renewed others that probably shouldn't have been renewed (Quantico, but that was for international reasons). I think Deception is in the middle, where they could easily renew it and keep it on Sundays, as it's done better in that timeslot than Quantico has in the same timeslot, or American Crime. I mean, someone on the network seems to be happy with the show, or else it would have never gotten their special episode on a Tuesday night; if they needed to push an episode on a different night to maintain their winter schedule, they would have thrown the episode on Saturday. Them throwing 1x07 on Tuesday at 10pm, if it hits the regular 10pm ratings for Tuesday (around 3 million or lower), then they must know that it's the timeslot. And even if the Tuesday night timeslot was the only one they could throw it on, I'd say that speaks more to the show they're replacing (FTP, even if it's only a repeat of that show) than for Deception. 

Even just talking it out here, it makes me a little more confident for a renewal. I'm now about 50% that it'll be renewed for a season 2. 

[kassygreene]

I think ABC is trying with Deception.  In my experience when ABC pays for a series that they wind up hating they kill it with a Saturday schedule for Saturdays no one watches TV (John Barrowman's Sing Your Face Off, burned off at two episodes per Saturday for a three week period starting on May 31), or if they put on a series that commits the sin of not being top ten after the first program, they yank it and get weird with the scheduling (The Assets, starring Jodie Whittaker and Harriet Walter, aired Thursdays Jan 2 & 9, was pulled and re-scheduled to Saturdays in June (21 & 28), pulled again and re-scheduled to Sundays Jul 27 & Aug 3, two episodes each day at 4 & 5 pm in the afternoon!)  Granted, Sing Your Face Off was kind of amusing but not really good, and The Assets was a program that didn't begin to live up to the promise of the story (the hunt for the mole that turned out to be Aldrich Ames) because they couldn't resist putting in some schmaltz, in spite of having Whittaker and Walter and other good Brit casting acting their assets off.

With these shows ABC led me to believe that they would never give a new show a decent shot unless it was pre-loaded (Bachelor-ish fakery), re-boot pandering (Roseanne Barr), or Shonda-land (that Romeo & Juliet thing was a silken mess, and apparently so obviously bad ABC Wouldn't Even). 

So, Deception has a thirteen episode first season, they've actually scheduled to air all of it before Memorial Day (a very good sign), the actor playing the Black brothers should be getting a double salary, (and if at some point the brothers switch places, a trope I hope they avoid, he'll be playing four parts instead of two, so quadruple for that), and finally, Vinnie Jones.  Show has a chance.

Edited April 20, 2018 by kassygreene

[Charlesman]

I wouldn't worry, it was pulled last Sunday for that James Comey thing, then it gets the Tuesday follow up slot after Roseanne, the biggest hit ABC has had since Lost. If they don't blow it, they should be safe.

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, Charlesman said:

I wouldn't worry, it was pulled last Sunday for that James Comey thing, then it gets the Tuesday follow up slot after Roseanne, the biggest hit ABC has had since Lost. If they don't blow it, they should be safe.

As long as they don't get lower ratings than FTP or Kevin (Probably), then they should be fine. 

[AnimeMania]

The next episode airs this Tuesday night, don't forget to watch it.

They never explained how they kidnapped the woman and got away.

Edited April 23, 2018 by AnimeMania
Made post longer.