S24.E09: Week 9: Semi-Finals

[calipiano81]

39 minutes ago, F. M. said:

 

39 minutes ago, F. M. said:

4 hours ago, crossover said:

But the untrained only works on this show if you're male.

How so? 

Untrained females on this show are never given a pass for mediocre dancing, regardless of their personality.

[NeverLate]

17 minutes ago, calipiano81 said:

 

Untrained females on this show are never given a pass for mediocre dancing, regardless of their personality.

Perhaps. Honestly once they are off my screen, I seldom give them any thought. Male or female.

[McManda]

Quote

ETA:  I don't hate Heather, Normani, Simone or Nancy.  I do feel having Heather on the show was unfair in many ways.  Yes, she was a top-notch dancer...but then she was before the season began.  

But ... so was Normani.

This highlights the different narratives Normani and Heather were given. Both are good dancers - professionals even, yet Normani can't go wrong and "never ever ever" makes a mistake while Heather can't escape the label of Beyonce's backup dancer and gets nitpicked to death because if it.

My issue is not with Normani herself, it's with the story the show crafted for her. She's Saint Normani, she's the best dancer on this show, ever (does that mean anything anymore?), she's perfect can't do any wrong.

While I think Normani is  technically good, It makes me gag when the judges pile on the praise like that because I do think there are things she could work on. Connecting with Val, the nuances of the dance (they all feel the  vaguely the same to me, kind of hard and fierce), or even just pushing back and deciding not to do another high kick  in every dance (I get it, she's flexible).

It's tiring and predictable and I'm not buying into the story the show wants me to. Sucks that Normani is a casualty of that (for me), but maybe the show shouldn't try to further their narrative by shoving someone down my throat ... especially someone who arguably doesn't need it.

[hyacinth]

6 hours ago, Ivana Tinkle said:

Sorry to completely derail the always prevalent ringers vs. popularity contest discussion, but Carrie Ann's "Your foot came a millimeter off the floor!  My hands are tied, THERE ARE NO OTHER OPTIONS!  Sorry!" *tee hee* is so annoying.  Because there is an option:  you could just ignore it when it's clear it wasn't blatant, you no talent fuckwit.  

I wanted to like this 100 more times.    

[crossover]

2 hours ago, F. M. said:

No, not at all. I don't believe she was a dancer, so I enjoyed the journey. LOL.

I'm different from you.  I believe she had dance lessons just like most girls her age.  She was probably just not gifted.

[crossover]

57 minutes ago, McManda said:

This highlights the different narratives Normani and Heather were given. Both are good dancers - professionals even, yet Normani can't go wrong and "never ever ever" makes a mistake while Heather can't escape the label of Beyonce's backup dancer and gets nitpicked to death because if it.

While I think Normani is  technically good, It makes me gag when the judges pile on the praise like that because I do think there are things she could work on. Connecting with Val, the nuances of the dance (they all feel the  vaguely the same to me, kind of hard and fierce), or even just pushing back and deciding not to do another high kick  in every dance (I get it, she's flexible).

I didn't know Normani was a paid dancer.  I thought she was just a gifted dance student.

Since you said she's like Heather (professional) I'm surprised she found work with all the things you say she needs to work on.  It's good she has this singing thing as a backup.  But besides Rashad/Emma, I think Normani/Val had a great connection.  I'll have to agree with CAI on this one.  They dance as one and complete each other.  She elevates Val's choreography.

Edited May 16, 2017 by crossover

[luvbadtv]

Interesting that they critiqued Simone all season on her emotion, yet David is the same or worse.  He has never gotten the same comments.

[PTVjones]

4 hours ago, McManda said:

This highlights the different narratives Normani and Heather were given. Both are good dancers - professionals even, yet Normani can't go wrong and "never ever ever" makes a mistake while Heather can't escape the label of Beyonce's backup dancer and gets nitpicked to death because if it.

My issue is not with Normani herself, it's with the story the show crafted for her. She's Saint Normani, she's the best dancer on this show, ever (does that mean anything anymore?), she's perfect can't do any wrong.

It's tiring and predictable and I'm not buying into the story the show wants me to. Sucks that Normani is a casualty of that (for me), but maybe the show shouldn't try to further their narrative by shoving someone down my throat ... especially someone who arguably doesn't need it.

I feel like when I read stuff like this I'm watching a completely different show than everyone else. Normani was never paid to be someone's back-up dancer, dance in a dance company, or dance on broadway. Since those are basically the 3 pathways to being a professional dancer I just don't see how Normani is considered a professional dancer. As far as I can see, her and Paige have the same amount of training and Paige didn't get nearly as much criticism for being a professional dancer. 

I understand this feeling because I felt this way for many of Derek's partners who I thought were doing much better in the competition than they should have been. However, that had a lot more to do with my feelings regarding Derek, and the show's positioning of Derek, than it had to do with his partners. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by PTVjones
typo

[ladylaw99]

This has been a horrible season.  In all honesty no one has "wow" me.  

[dcubed]

8 hours ago, Venee said:

It's not a show about taking people who don't know how to dance and teaching them. If it was ,they wouldn't cast people who know how to dance.  It matters not what Julianne (whom I heard parrot that line) says, It's  what the show actually does. The tag line is  "Vote for your favorite"  If the show really was about people who don't know how to dance I wouldn't watch.

I think what the show is and what it tries to be has evolved over time.  I think at any given season it has been "watch people learn and grow" (the beginning seasons), to let's have some really great dancers, (Nicolette being the first I really remember), to "let's promote the pros", to "our pros can make mediocre dancers look great (anyone with Derek) to "people that stay are the heart of the show."  They go with the flow of audience voting and reactions.   Some seasons they try to manipulate a lot (see Kane, Chelsea) and others I think they throw their hands in the air and go with the audience favorite (Donald Driver). 

I am not a dancer, I have never taken ballroom but I do know and appreciate dance and quite frankly, if I want really great dancing, I watch other dance shows.  I do watch this show to see who gets better so there are people out there like me (and I suspect there are a lot of us).  So in my world, for me, while I think Normani is the best dancer by far, she isn't why I watch the show.  I watch the show for the Rashad's, David's, and Nancy's, who show improvement and are a joy to watch. 

Unless we are sitting in on meetings with Disney, ABC and the producers from DWTS, we can only guess what TPTB are doing but I do know that ratings, advertising and reaching the desired demographics are their goals.  If they can achieve that with great dancers, awesome.  But if they are more successful achieving those with the David Ross's of the world, expect that the direction they will go. 

[Jax7917]

27 minutes ago, luvbadtv said:

Interesting that they critiqued Simone all season on her emotion, yet David is the same or worse.  He has never gotten the same comments.

Because there are so many other things to critique with him.

I think the problem is that this show doesn't know what it wants. Is it a show about growth as a non-dancer into a better dancer or is it a show about people that start out as amazing dancers and stay amazing dancers?

Simone's attitude last week was bratty, but she's only like 19 or 20 years old so I give her a pass. I don't think she was disappointed to be sent packing though.

[Beyoncheyyy]

9 hours ago, Alapaki said:

Also, why do they keep talking about "MLB giving them" David, as though he needed permission from the Commissioner to go on the show?

Mostly because he's the first MLB player on there, so they'll continue to make a big deal about it until the season is over. You basically have to wait for a baseball player to retire before he can come to do DWTS because baseball runs (spring training + the actual season + post season) almost all year round. So, they're just excited to have their first one on there. My kid is 13, never watched dwts before, and he's watched every David performance because he's an avid baseball fan and plays year round travel ball. DR is a bigger deal than most realize, which is why he's still sticking around. Popularity for dayzzzzz. 

[boyznkatz]

6 hours ago, gohawks said:

For all the talk of Normani being pimped, David has been equally pimped.  You think TPTB are not aware of the middle-aged, middle- of-the-country housefraus that find him so charming?  He should never have been scored over a three.

Well you know he's gonna work for ESPN, so they have to pimp their boy. Funny how Bonner was ridiculed by the judges for his awful dancing, but David tried oh, so hard. I don't even think they are pimping Normani, but Val. He's Derek 2.0 and they need to get him in the finals.

I knew Simone or Rashad was going to go, because TPTB have no vested interest in them. I figured Simone had the bigger fanbase so it would be Rashad, but no surprises really.

[NodakFan]

Remember the beginning of the season when we had 3 female ringers + nancy + hell even charo was better on paper than their typical older lady, and we still end up with a final 3 with only one woman?

[boyznkatz]

3 minutes ago, NodakFan said:

Remember the beginning of the season when we had 3 female ringers + nancy + hell even charo was better on paper than their typical older lady, and we still end up with a final 3 with only one woman?

Even when women do make the finals, it's all about their male partner (Derek, Val, Maks). Do you think TPTB actually cares about Normani? It's the Val show.

[Primetimer]

We start the show with four couples, and magically end the show with three couples, as we head into next week’s finals.

View the full article

[NeverLate]

1 hour ago, crossover said:

I'm different from you.  I believe she had dance lessons just like most girls her age.  She was probably just not gifted.

When she was three or six, that doesn't bother me at all. A back up dancer for Beyonce does.

I think non ringers work just as hard, if not harder than ringers. The show should think about that. People aren't liking the way the judges have been acting, and bringing grandma into the act doesn't move me one iota.

Go Rashad! 

23 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

Well you know he's gonna work for ESPN, so they have to pimp their boy. Funny how Bonner was ridiculed by the judges for his awful dancing, but David tried oh, so hard. I don't even think they are pimping Normani, but Val. He's Derek 2.0 and they need to get him in the finals.

I knew Simone or Rashad was going to go, because TPTB have no vested interest in them. I figured Simone had the bigger fanbase so it would be Rashad, but no surprises really.

Val can never be Derek 2.0 ,no matter how hard he tries. Nevah! :) 

[crossover]

1 minute ago, F. M. said:

When she was three or six, that doesn't bother me at all. A back up dancer for Beyonce does.

I think non ringers work just as hard, if not harder than ringers. The show should think about that. People aren't liking the way the judges have been acting, and bringing grandma into the act doesn't move me one iota.

Go Rashad! 

I'm sure Bindi took classes later than 3 or 6.  She probably just wasn't good.  Anyway, it looks like you are talking about Heather.  She was a professional dancer for Beyonce but not ballroom.  It gave her an advantage of course but they critique her hard as well.

[Archery]

I'm disappointed that Simone was eliminated.  I was really looking forward to her being able to show her gravity-defying skills.  Carrie-Ann once dinged her for a "lift" when Simone obviously didn't need Sasha's help to leave the floor, but she didn't have a chance to prove it.  I kinda wanted her freestyle to be BSC moves and jumps and lifts and hanging in the middle of the air upside down. 

I love watching Rashad dance more than any other male celeb that's been on DTWS, I think.  He's not perfect, but I don't care.

Normani's grandma was a riot up in the sky box. 

[NeverLate]

Just now, crossover said:

I'm sure Bindi took classes later than 3 or 6.  She probably just wasn't good.  Anyway, it looks like you are talking about Heather.  She was a professional dancer for Beyonce but not ballroom.  It gave her an advantage of course but they critique her hard as well.

Bindi isn't dancing this season, so I'll leave that alone.I was thrilled she won.

As for Heather big ringer, glad she got the boot.I was hoping Normani went, her VW was horrible. I'm hoping Rashad/Emma do well in the freestyle, because Val doesn't choreography them that well imnsho.! 

[crossover]

41 minutes ago, dcubed said:

I am not a dancer, I have never taken ballroom but I do know and appreciate dance and quite frankly, if I want really great dancing, I watch other dance shows.  I do watch this show to see who gets better so there are people out there like me (and I suspect there are a lot of us).  So in my world, for me, while I think Normani is the best dancer by far, she isn't why I watch the show.  I watch the show for the Rashad's, David's, and Nancy's, who show improvement and are a joy to watch. 

 

You do realize that figure skaters take a ton of dance classes, right?  If you think Normani is too trained, you'd have to put Nancy with her.  She most certainly doesn't belong with David or Rashad.

[NeverLate]

Quote

I love watching Rashad dance more than any other male celeb that's been on DTWS, I think.  He's not perfect, but I don't care.

I enjoy him :) 

[rollacoaster]

9 hours ago, breezy424 said:

You can be the best dancer in the world but if you don't have 'appeal' to the viewers, you're not going to get the votes.  It's that simple.

Simone was technically good.  She's used to being in contests where she is judged primarily on skill, not popularity.  This experience must have been very frustrating for her.  No matter how good she was, she couldn't win, because she didn't know how to, or care to, play to the audience.  At least she got her beloved 10s. 

I love Normani's Grandma! She's a cheeky Dame! Her face just lit up when Val claimed her from Len. Yasss, Queen!  

Edited May 16, 2017 by rollacoaster

[NeverLate]

Just now, crossover said:

You do realize that figure skaters take a ton of dance classes, right?  If you think Normani is too trained, you'd have to put Nancy with her.  She most certainly doesn't belong with David or Rashad.

Nancy hasn't danced for years, plus she never had a partner. She's not in her twenties either. Loved Nancy.:) 

[crossover]

2 minutes ago, F. M. said:

Bindi isn't dancing this season, so I'll leave that alone.I was thrilled she won.

As for Heather big ringer, glad she got the boot.I was hoping Normani went, her VW was horrible. I'm hoping Rashad/Emma do well in the freestyle, because Val doesn't choreography them that well imnsho.! 

I could tell that you were thrilled.   When it's your favorite, you don't care about their experience.

[Alapaki]

30 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

I don't even think they are pimping Normani, but Val. He's Derek 2.0 and they need to get him in the finals.

I really only watch this show as a reality show (that just happens to involve dance).  And in that regard, Val has really learned to play the game.  

He brings whatever "Chmerkovsky" traits seem to resonate with the audience, along with the obsequiousness towards the relevant judges (and benign neglect of CAI) that is absolutely Hough-ian.  He does seem to be the male-pro face of the franchise at this point.

Sasha's not in the same league, in that regard.

I think TPTB could very easily have torpedoed David with more candid critiques that weren't buried amidst praise for his "effort" and "charm" and "dedication" and "enthusiasm".  I'm not saying those things shouldn't count to viewer-voters, because after all this is just a reality show, not the Olympics.  But a more candid and less intentionally balanced critique from the Judges might very well have suppressed David's votes.

But I think that David is the perfect F3 candidate given the show's recent track record.  So they were never going to take out the knives on him.

[crossover]

11 minutes ago, F. M. said:

Nancy hasn't danced for years, plus she never had a partner. She's not in her twenties either. Loved Nancy.:) 

You don't know when was the last time Nancy's taken dance class.  She's one of your favorites too since you're trying to change the narrative.  She did well regardless of her age.  She kept herself in good shape.

ETA:  Just noticed your partner angle.  Normani, Heather, Simone weren't ballroom dancers either.  They didn't dance with partners.

Edited May 16, 2017 by crossover

[Venee]

43 minutes ago, dcubed said:

I think what the show is and what it tries to be has evolved over time.  I think at any given season it has been "watch people learn and grow" (the beginning seasons), to let's have some really great dancers, (Nicolette being the first I really remember), to "let's promote the pros", to "our pros can make mediocre dancers look great (anyone with Derek) to "people that stay are the heart of the show."  They go with the flow of audience voting and reactions.   Some seasons they try to manipulate a lot (see Kane, Chelsea) and others I think they throw their hands in the air and go with the audience favorite (Donald Driver). 

I am not a dancer, I have never taken ballroom but I do know and appreciate dance and quite frankly, if I want really great dancing, I watch other dance shows.  I do watch this show to see who gets better so there are people out there like me (and I suspect there are a lot of us).  So in my world, for me, while I think Normani is the best dancer by far, she isn't why I watch the show.  I watch the show for the Rashad's, David's, and Nancy's, who show improvement and are a joy to watch. 

Unless we are sitting in on meetings with Disney, ABC and the producers from DWTS, we can only guess what TPTB are doing but I do know that ratings, advertising and reaching the desired demographics are their goals.  If they can achieve that with great dancers, awesome.  But if they are more successful achieving those with the David Ross's of the world, expect that the direction they will go. 

I used to dance, (not Ballroom) but I watch all the dance shows (even used to watch the old PBS Ballroom specials. Tony Dovoloni is my all time favorite and what first interested me in this show). I wouldn't watch this one if they only had non dancers however... The journey thing is meh for me. I tend to see the Rashad types as having ups and downs depending on the dance. The growth is up for debate. The judges say whatever works at the time. Davids best dance IMHO was his first. His body carriage and quality of movement (for me) hasn't been at that level  since.. I'm going to say something that will probably irk Derek haters big time... but I think Simone would have been better off with a "Derek" type, probably even Mark. Simone and Shawn are similar power gymnasts. She may have needed their previous experience with types like her to suppress the auto pilot as well as craft routines that masked the gymnast more..... The show covers it's bases though that "Vote for You favorite"  it's the ultimate equalizer!

[vibeology]

11 hours ago, McManda said:

Normani's Viennese waltz did anything but remind me of old Vienna. And they should have ditched the black and white filter.

Len wants her to do something classical and graceful so of course let's dance to Rihanna and add weird filters. I think Normani did the best she could with that setup but what a crappy setup. I would actually love to see what she would have done with something more traditional. I think balance might have been an issue, but it also would have given her a chance to show a different side performance wise and I think that might matter more.

11 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I will say that I'm kind of glad she was eliminated. I could see tonight definitely that my issues with her would never be resolved. Watching her last dance with Sasha, I felt like I was watching two strangers dancing. She's a lovely girl, but completely blah for me as a dancer.

I don't think it's a knock against Sasha or Simone nor is it a judgment about their friendship off the dance floor but they are just two people who couldn't connect on that dance floor at all. It happens. Years of watching So You Think You Can Dance taught me two great dancers who are friends might still struggle to have chemistry while performing and that's what got these two more than anything for me. I think Simone could have overcome some of that robot stuff if they didn't have this chemistry problem. And no one is at fault; sometimes people don't click but obviously it hurt them. I'm sad to see her go. She's clearly a stronger dancer than David and Sasha has never done a freestyle so it sucks that he missed it by one week.

7 hours ago, Nalan said:

I don't get why you all think the judges were feigning shock.  I think that looked real to me.  Yes, they nitpicked Simone.  But I don't think they had any way of knowing that that might contribute to her ouster.  Everything about that felt real to me.  Their reaction was the main thing that really helps me know, for sure, that not even they know who's going.

I'm not one who believes the judges are told the result before hand. I do remember several of the pros saying sometimes you get the feeling when it's your week because some of the production treats you different and I think the judges are probably able to pick up on that too, but I doubt there's a meeting where the results are told to them ahead of time (because CAI and Bruno would absolutely have fucked up at some point over the years.) But, it's been 24 seasons and all the judges have been with the show for years. They know what sort of packages and events typically result in someone going home. They know how their comments impact the voting. The shocked faces were bullshit because they've been here all season critiquing Simone for her emotional connection. They've been giving her good but not amazing scores. They've been praising David for showing up and giving him pretty good scores. Carrie Ann spent two critiques giving Simone the same notes and then gasped like she had been slapped in the face when Simone finally answered. The surprised act is bullshit for me because these are people who should be savvy to how this show works at this point. Many people on the board last week talked about Simone as a potential surprise boot based on what we saw. If viewers can predict it, the judges have no excuse.

7 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

I think a better case for sabotage can be made in regards to Heather.  I knew her only from Glee, only you'd never know it going by how the show seemed to think her one and only job was as a backup dancer for Beyonce.  But even then, I think their intention was more about being conscious about casting a professional dancer as opposed to wanting her booted off early.

I'm still annoyed about this. They spent so much time talking Beyoncé and so little time talking Glee. Glee is far and away the bigger part of Heather's career and the reason she's famous.

51 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I think the problem is that this show doesn't know what it wants. Is it a show about growth as a non-dancer into a better dancer or is it a show about people that start out as amazing dancers and stay amazing dancers?

The show knows exactly what it wants. Money. It wants to make money. For itself, for other network shows, for other ABC/Disney properties. That's it. So if a combo of nice people learning to dance and actual good dancers get the most eyeballs on a Papa John's commercial, that's who they'll cast and promote week after week. Controversy is good for ratings. Simone's shock boot might get a few new people watching GMA so it helps there too. They don't have a mission; there isn't a goal here beyond making money. They'll go with whatever seems to be best for ratings, cross-promotion etc.

32 minutes ago, NodakFan said:

Remember the beginning of the season when we had 3 female ringers + nancy + hell even charo was better on paper than their typical older lady, and we still end up with a final 3 with only one woman?

I had a feeling the women would cancel each other out somewhat but I am surprised and disappointed that at the end we've only got one still standing.

If, in a few years, Disney decides they need a life action version of The Princess and the Frog (since they're redoing everything else) Normani needs to be on the Tiana shortlist. It's a crime she wasn't given that for Disney week because that styling suited her in her jazz.

Rashad pulled off one of the stronger male rumbas we've seen in years on this show. I do think having Bruno there to demonstrate was helpful because his movement was more fluid than in previous weeks. His feet are still a challenge but his arms were quite nice.

I'm really looking forward to whatever Emma's got in store for the Freestyle. Her only other one was with Bill and that didn't give her much to work with.

[puppy breath]

DWTS needs to revise their scoring system so that the actual JUDGES have more of an impact on the results.  This show has become nothing more than a popularity contest.  David is a charming man, but my dad can dance better than he does.  Normani is good, but nowhere near Heather (who should have won!) or Simone.   Rashad is beyond flat footed and, again, is there because of his popularity.

Later DTWS, you jumped the shark years ago, but this is ridiculous.

[crossover]

7 minutes ago, Venee said:

 I'm going to say something that will probably irk Derek haters big time... but I think Simone would have been better off with a "Derek" type, probably even Mark. Simone and Shawn are similar power gymnasts. She may have needed their previous experience with types like her to suppress the auto pilot as well as craft routines that masked the gymnast more..... The show covers it's bases though that "Vote for You favorite"  it's the ultimate equalizer!

I like Derek and Mark.  And Simone would've been better off because of their fanbases.  When she won with Mark, there weren't 3 other women who could flat out dance.  The judges hung with her because she was the favorite female that season.  So she had time to grow into the dancing role.  She started off just like Simone. 

[thesupremediva1]

Simone can join the ranks of Nastia, Charlie, and many other highly talented dancers who fell victim to an untimely elimination the week before the finals.

I knew last week's comments would do her in - even if she had every right to say them and stand up for herself. In the moment, it never comes off well, and voting is only open for so long. 

My ability to care a whole lot went out the window when Nick and Nancy were eliminated, so now I'm just sort of shaking my head and laughing. 

I like Rashad and Emma, and I won't be upset if they win, but I'm a huge Val fan and Normani is the best dancer left, so they're getting my votes.

I'll cackle if David wins, but I won't be shocked or appalled or upset like the judges pretended to be last night. If you're scoring him with the same paddle you're scoring Normani or Simone, you have zero right to be banging your head against a desk when he stays over more talented dancers. His fan base is massive and motivated. Len verbally cuts him down and then he gets an 8? Well there's your problem right there. Scores that only vary by a point are eviscerated when a rabid voting block comes into play. Give the guy a 6 or temper the critique.

Two members of the Final Five were never going to win back to back. I so wish Simone had waited one more cycle before coming on. The only reason I'm at all upset is because I love Sasha and want to see him make the finals. I thought his work with Nastia during Derek's injury was first-rate.

Edited May 16, 2017 by thesupremediva1

[Venee]

16 minutes ago, crossover said:

You don't know when was the last time Nancy's taken dance class.  She's one of your favorites too since you're trying to change the narrative.  She did well regardless of her age.  She kept herself in good shape.

ETA:  Just noticed your partner angle.  Normani, Heather, Simone weren't ballroom dancers either.  They didn't dance with partners.

I'm going to agree with you Crossover. It's not like Nancy was dusting off the Cobwebs. I just saw her perform in this skating Gymnastics special that was taped in January. She wasn't doing triples, but she was in tip top shape http://www.dissonskating.com/event/colgate-skating-gymnastics-spectacular-2016/   Let's be real, these people are competitive, do we honestly think they wouldn't  start a training regimen the minute they decide to do the show? Heck I would lol  Heather hasn't danced in a while either, but there's tape of her taking some dance classes on youtube getting back in the grove (killing it BTW I get's the sads every week since she was booted knowing the routines I didn't get to enjoy)

[Boofish]

12 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

The faux-shock by the judges and Erin is so eye-roll worthy. This show is really amazingly predictable if you've watched it long enough. It was obvious last week was setting up Simone's exit this week. This will come down to Rashad and Normani. If Emma drops the ball on the freestyle, Normani'll take it. The judges will score David low enough that he has no shot of winning since he's clearly the weakest link in the Final 3.

David's dancing will justify the scores

[dcubed]

7 minutes ago, vibeology said:

The show knows exactly what it wants. Money. It wants to make money. For itself, for other network shows, for other ABC/Disney properties. That's it. So if a combo of nice people learning to dance and actual good dancers get the most eyeballs on a Papa John's commercial, that's who they'll cast and promote week after week. Controversy is good for ratings. Simone's shock boot might get a few new people watching GMA so it helps there too. They don't have a mission; there isn't a goal here beyond making money. They'll go with whatever seems to be best for ratings, cross-promotion etc.

This x 1,000!!!!

[Venee]

9 minutes ago, crossover said:

I like Derek and Mark.  And Simone would've been better off because of their fanbases.  When she won with Mark, there weren't 3 other women who could flat out dance.  The judges hung with her because she was the favorite female that season.  So she had time to grow into the dancing role.  She started off just like Simone. 

Good points, especially the bolded. I forgot about that!

[dcubed]

38 minutes ago, crossover said:

You do realize that figure skaters take a ton of dance classes, right?  If you think Normani is too trained, you'd have to put Nancy with her.  She most certainly doesn't belong with David or Rashad

I never said Normani was too trained just as I never said that Nancy hadn't taken lessons.  I said I watch the show for the Rashad's, David's, and Nancy's, who show improvement and are a joy to watch.  Normani is great.  Normani is a powerful dancer.  For me, I don't see that Normani has improved, perhaps because I'm not trained enough to see the little things she's improved upon but then I guess that makes me similar to most of the audience watching.  For me, I like the improvement arc story.  For me,  it isn't about who's been trained, who hasn't, who is a ringer, and who isn't.  I was speaking about my personal preferences and what I enjoy. 

[McManda]

2 hours ago, crossover said:

I didn't know Normani was a paid dancer.  I thought she was just a gifted dance student.

Since you said she's like Heather (professional) I'm surprised she found work with all the things you say she needs to work on.

So we're just ignoring that Normani's made a few dance videos (for which she was presumably paid), been dancing since she was three or four, and said herself dancing is her first passion? Okay sure, she was never a backup dancer for Queen B, but let's not pretend she doesn't have the same kind of advantages that Heather did.

THAT'S what bothers me about Normani. She got lucky that the show harped on Heather (and to an extent Nancy) and that the show decided that Simone was going to be something akin to this season's villain and she got the platitudes and do-no-wrongs. If they had come out and said "hey, you're good, but there's always room for improvement" it would grate on me less.

[NeverLate]

44 minutes ago, crossover said:

I could tell that you were thrilled.   When it's your favorite, you don't care about their experience.

Pretty much. Why would I care about people I don't like or enjoy? 

I like all sorts of people, preferably if they aren't paired with Val or Maks. 

DWTS jumped the shark a few years ago as far as I'm concerned. 

[dcubed]

44 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

I think TPTB could very easily have torpedoed David with more candid critiques that weren't buried amidst praise for his "effort" and "charm" and "dedication" and "enthusiasm".  I'm not saying those things shouldn't count to viewer-voters, because after all this is just a reality show, not the Olympics.  But a more candid and less intentionally balanced critique from the Judges might very well have suppressed David's votes.

I've thought from the very beginning that David had the votes to get to the finals and potentially win.  I will not be surprised if he does, not at all.  You take the DWTS audience demographics and they line up perfectly with David.  And I'm not saying he's the best, or that he should win, just that the judges know to go along with what the audience wants lest they completely tick off the majority of their views. 

[Venee]

21 minutes ago, vibeology said:

Len wants her to do something classical and graceful so of course let's dance to Rihanna and add weird filters. I think Normani did the best she could with that setup but what a crappy setup. I would actually love to see what she would have done with something more traditional. I think balance might have been an issue, but it also would have given her a chance to show a different side performance wise and I think that might matter more.

I don't think it's a knock against Sasha or Simone nor is it a judgment about their friendship off the dance floor but they are just two people who couldn't connect on that dance floor at all. It happens. Years of watching So You Think You Can Dance taught me two great dancers who are friends might still struggle to have chemistry while performing and that's what got these two more than anything for me. I think Simone could have overcome some of that robot stuff if they didn't have this chemistry problem. And no one is at fault; sometimes people don't click but obviously it hurt them. I'm sad to see her go. She's clearly a stronger dancer than David and Sasha has never done a freestyle so it sucks that he missed it by one week.

I'm not one who believes the judges are told the result before hand. I do remember several of the pros saying sometimes you get the feeling when it's your week because some of the production treats you different and I think the judges are probably able to pick up on that too, but I doubt there's a meeting where the results are told to them ahead of time (because CAI and Bruno would absolutely have fucked up at some point over the years.) But, it's been 24 seasons and all the judges have been with the show for years. They know what sort of packages and events typically result in someone going home. They know how their comments impact the voting. The shocked faces were bullshit because they've been here all season critiquing Simone for her emotional connection. They've been giving her good but not amazing scores. They've been praising David for showing up and giving him pretty good scores. Carrie Ann spent two critiques giving Simone the same notes and then gasped like she had been slapped in the face when Simone finally answered. The surprised act is bullshit for me because these are people who should be savvy to how this show works at this point. Many people on the board last week talked about Simone as a potential surprise boot based on what we saw. If viewers can predict it, the judges have no excuse.

I'm still annoyed about this. They spent so much time talking Beyoncé and so little time talking Glee. Glee is far and away the bigger part of Heather's career and the reason she's famous.

The show knows exactly what it wants. Money. It wants to make money. For itself, for other network shows, for other ABC/Disney properties. That's it. So if a combo of nice people learning to dance and actual good dancers get the most eyeballs on a Papa John's commercial, that's who they'll cast and promote week after week. Controversy is good for ratings. Simone's shock boot might get a few new people watching GMA so it helps there too. They don't have a mission; there isn't a goal here beyond making money. They'll go with whatever seems to be best for ratings, cross-promotion etc.

I had a feeling the women would cancel each other out somewhat but I am surprised and disappointed that at the end we've only got one still standing.

If, in a few years, Disney decides they need a life action version of The Princess and the Frog (since they're redoing everything else) Normani needs to be on the Tiana shortlist. It's a crime she wasn't given that for Disney week because that styling suited her in her jazz.

Rashad pulled off one of the stronger male rumbas we've seen in years on this show. I do think having Bruno there to demonstrate was helpful because his movement was more fluid than in previous weeks. His feet are still a challenge but his arms were quite nice.

I'm really looking forward to whatever Emma's got in store for the Freestyle. Her only other one was with Bill and that didn't give her much to work with.

This should be pinnned at the top of this board lol no truer words about this show have ever been spoken.  

[basiltherat]

I'm glad David went though because, as a Cubs fan, he's the only one winning for us this year!  If Show wants to control who wins, they never should have given weight to "America's" vote.  Remember, "America" voted for BOTH Trump AND Obama!

[crossover]

3 minutes ago, dcubed said:

I never said Normani was too trained just as I never said that Nancy hadn't taken lessons.  I said I watch the show for the Rashad's, David's, and Nancy's, who show improvement and are a joy to watch.  Normani is great.  Normani is a powerful dancer.  For me, I don't see that Normani has improved, perhaps because I'm not trained enough to see the little things she's improved upon but then I guess that makes me similar to most of the audience watching.  For me, I like the improvement arc story.  For me,  it isn't about who's been trained, who hasn't, who is a ringer, and who isn't.  I was speaking about my personal preferences and what I enjoy. 

You're right. Improvement is subjective too.  I remember Normani's first week.  There was a river between Val and her.  I guess she had to get use to dancing with a partner and in heels because now she doesn't have that issue.  Her arm movements have gotten more refined etc.  So I did see improvement.  It's easier to see Nancy, David and Rashad's improvements because they weren't consistent from week to week.

[boyznkatz]

2 minutes ago, dcubed said:

I've thought from the very beginning that David had the votes to get to the finals and potentially win.  I will not be surprised if he does, not at all.  You take the DWTS audience demographics and they line up perfectly with David.  And I'm not saying he's the best, or that he should win, just that the judges know to go along with what the audience wants lest they completely tick off the majority of their views. 

I agree. They know how many votes people are getting, and if someone is getting a lot of votes, they won't be dumb enough to kick them out.

[shoregirl]

Im not really sure why the recapper has such a hard time referring to Simones parents as such. They adopted her they are her parents. It's really not that hard of a concept yet this is not the first time she has referred to them as Simone's grandparents.

[Venee]

11 hours ago, puppy breath said:

DWTS needs to revise their scoring system so that the actual JUDGES have more of an impact on the results.  This show has become nothing more than a popularity contest.  David is a charming man, but my dad can dance better than he does.  Normani is good, but nowhere near Heather (who should have won!) or Simone.   Rashad is beyond flat footed and, again, is there because of his popularity.

Later DTWS, you jumped the shark years ago, but this is ridiculous.

I think the better adjustment would be to crown a Ladies celeb champ and a guys celeb champ. The demand is sooo different in a partnership. Last night I heard CAI going on about how hard it is to be the male partner, but let's talk about the demand if you're the female. The Dancing in heels alone is worth getting spotted 2 points  lol For further proof, keep an eye on the pro female in any given routine. The step sequences and work that's going on while the male is planted there with his arm outstretched is challenging. I was watching Rashad's Rumba in particular last night and thinking how much harder that exact dance would have been if one of the celeb ladies had to do Emma's work.... 

Edited May 17, 2017 by Venee

[sinycalone]

1 hour ago, boyznkatz said:

Well you know he's gonna work for ESPN, so they have to pimp their boy. Funny how Bonner was ridiculed by the judges for his awful dancing, but David tried oh, so hard. I don't even think they are pimping Normani, but Val. He's Derek 2.0 and they need to get him in the finals.

I knew Simone or Rashad was going to go, because TPTB have no vested interest in them. I figured Simone had the bigger fanbase so it would be Rashad, but no surprises really.

David is probably not getting a job with ESPN....they have laid off a lot of on-camera personnel and have basically put a freeze on hiring.  I think in David's case, as others have pointed out, he not only has Chicago and Boston fans behind him...but many people who are simply MLB fans.

[NeverLate]

1 hour ago, crossover said:

You don't know when was the last time Nancy's taken dance class.  She's one of your favorites too since you're trying to change the narrative.  She did well regardless of her age.  She kept herself in good shape.

ETA:  Just noticed your partner angle.  Normani, Heather, Simone weren't ballroom dancers either.  They didn't dance with partners.

Actually Nancy gave an interview about her dancing, or not dancing. Busy mum, three children, its difficult. I give her tons of props, and found her far more enjoyable than Simone/Normani combined.

[Alapaki]

The show could very easily go to a format without viewer input where the Judges make the decisions, like many of the "audition-format" competitive reality shows.

But TPTB have obviously decided that there's a value-added to having viewer-engagement via voting.  Once they adopted that premise, it would probably be counterproductive for them to structure scoring in a way that the Judges' votes could veto "fan favorites".  That would just lead to backlash and viewer-disengagement.

So what they've decided upon is a format where the Judges and TPTB attempt to craft narratives that will influence viewer-voting rather than a scoring-system where they can overrule viewer-voting.  

Of course, when it comes to the finals the Judges usually get the final say, with a dance that they score after the viewer-votes are all tabulated.  So they can exercise a veto option there.  But they can easily assign a dance/song/etc. that will torpedo their target and make their elimination-causing-scores seem reasonable.

[crowceilidh]

I thought Rashad's "improved" arm movements were hilarious.  He got one move with his right arm and put it on rinse and repeat.  He must have done that one armed graceful arm movement 50 times.

Simone's first dance absolutely had improved emotional connection both with Sasha and with the audience.  And then she did her second dance and it all washed away.  She should be there over David, but I rarely enjoyed her dancing (I don't really enjoy his either).  

Lindsey is the interesting one in that partnership - she has spent quite a time honing her "patriotism" and "sports" choreo and it serves her well.  I think many people would be icked out if David connected with Lindsey in a way that showed anything beyond "good wholesome fun" chemistry.  His posture is egregious and I thought it was funny that they put him in tails to cover his butt in that first dance.  I'm guessing he didn't master the tucking of the tush.

Normani doesn't really connect with the audience very well because her face is always so guarded, but that characteristic enables her to embody the diva/queen thing that she does successfully in nearly every dance, so it's kinda a pro and a con.  She sure was having some kind of balance problems in her second dance - her legs kept looking hesitant in landing - Witney had a bit of that in her show dance with Artem too.

Hated Cheryl's dance and ended up fast forwarding through it.   I think Cheryl picked the wrong dance to showcase for a tv show - the background and the foreground just blended with each other too well.

I have loved Val and I have hated Derek, but Val will never be Derek 2.0.  His choreo is just not inventive enough.  Even though Val is cute (from my pov MUCH cuter than Derek) and used to be attractively pensive (he's becoming loudmouthedly pensive like his frigging brother now), he's not the package that Derek is.