S05.E11: Dyatkovo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

A surprise assignment from the Centre divides Philip and Elizabeth, forcing them into a moment of profound crisis. Stan gives Henry a tour of the FBI -- but will he see too much?

Promo:

[Umbelina]

Profound crisis would be good about now.

Oh goody!  Another new character!  Another new plot point!  woo.

[TimWil]

OK, something BIG better happen tonight. Like Tuan murdering Paige and pasting her eyebrows into his scrapbook, just below an ad trumpeting IHOP's Spirit of '84 blueberry pancakes special for a limited time only.

Edited May 18, 2017 by TimWil

[MisterBluxom]

I looked up Dyatkovo (the title of this episode) and it's the name of a city. It appears to be near the western border of Russia. But the maps were very difficult for me to read for some reason.  Here is a link to a map from Wikipedia. See if you can identify the country to the West. I think it may be Poland. I wonder why the episode would be titled the name of a city. The only sub-plot going on in Russia is Oleg.

Oh wait. Maybe this has something to do with Philip's son who came to America?  I have no idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatkovo

Edited May 17, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Bannon]

Based on the wheat midge fiasco, I suspect The Centre determined the target was a Nazi collaborator because, upon arrival in the U.S., her least favorite t.v. show was Hogan's Heroes.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Bannon

[SeanC]

Ah, Elizabeth, every time I think you're making some progress, you just go and remind me that you're basically evil.

On the lighter side of things:  Mail Robot!

Edited May 17, 2017 by SeanC

[Primetimer]

Elsewhere, Oleg's food investigation inches forward, and one of your faves comes back for a cameo.

View the full article

[Umbelina]

6 minutes ago, PreviouslyTV said:

Elsewhere, Oleg's food investigation inches forward, and one of your faves comes back for a cameo.

View the full article

Kudos!

I feel your pain.

[crgirl412]

Well that was brutal.  

[ptuscadero]

Well, P&E have definitely turned a corner now.  :-(

[Dev F]

"He thinks I'm wonderful." Holy shit. That might be the saddest thing I've ever heard.

[Erin9]

Elizabeth is done and wants to go home. I so did not see that coming. She was able to kill that very sympathetic couple, but is finally done because of them.  And Philip couldn't kill them at all in the end. What a way to end the episode. As usual with the centre these days.....nothing is as black and white as they make it sound. I wonder how Philip feels about wanting to get the truth first now. The truth was complicated and tragic. 

Henry saw the mail robot!! That was priceless given his parents history with it.  And told his parents about the vault. He unknowingly gave his spy parents interesting info. Loved that Stan told Henry the truth about what the FBI can do to people- make them have difficulty trusting anyone and ruins relationships. I think that took some of Henry's enthusiasm away. And showed Stan's own burnout too. 

We get william's real name! I love those little details. 

So Philip decided he was ok with Henry going away, though was saddened by it. Interesting. He's right- Henry is doing well at home. But he  is letting him go anyway. I'm not sure what to make of his flashback of playing airplane with his dad yet. I'm not surprised he was the one to guess that Paige may have wanted them to see all those pages though with her there. Philip is more intuitive that way. 

Gotta say it again: the end was amazing. Did not expect Elizabeth to just throw up her hands like that. Philip's reaction was more expected. 

[Tetraneutron]

Liked the Natalie Granholme story. I mean, yeah, it was brutal to watch, but compared to the multipart saga of whether some Soviet party bureaucrats we've never heard of are on the take and whether or nor Stan's boring girlfriend is real, it was nice to see something ACTUALLY HAPPEN.

And I loved that the drama didn't turn on whether Natalie actually was who the Centre thought she was or it it was mistaken identity. I mean, after the wheat thing I didn't think they'd do "The Centre gets it completely wrong" twice in a row, but I wasn't expecting the real resolution - that she was basically a conscripted against her will child soldier, tortured and damaged and had to go to extreme measures to save herself even though, looking back, it's the obvious answer. And goes with everyone (Tuan, Paige, Oleg, Stan) doing the wrong things for justifiable reasons.

And why is it P and E spend multiple scenes every episode discussing in detail their Paige strategy, but we never hear what their Henry strategy is. Are they grooming him? Has Paige's breakdown convinced them (ok, Elizabeth) they DON'T want Henry to be a second-gen illegal after all? How do they feel about their son's surrogate father and his access to the inner circle of the FBI? These are things the audience needs to know.

[Shriekingeel]

Ugh. This episode really ticked me off--I hate when fiction writers play around with the facts of WWII/Holocaust history for dramatic effect. Hate. It. (William Styron, I'm looking at you). 

The Nazis never used women in their execution squads. Never. The writers made it a woman just to be more manipulative. And the execution squads themselves (Einsatzgruppen) were specifically for the killing of Jews and "commissars", that is, Communist Party leadership. The Nazis felt no urgency to kill rank and file non-Jewish Russians: they were needed for slave labor in Germany, where they were worked to death in vast numbers. 

Being lowered into a vat of boiling oil is too good for our serial killers P&E. Don't think I've ever hated any television character as much as I hate these two. 

[benteen]

Strong episode, maybe the best of the season.  Something about bringing in a World War 2 related mission  That was brutal to watch though and I'm surprised that Elizabeth has finally reached her breaking point.

Mail Robot returns!  Too bad we didn't see Henry interact with Stan's boss.  I can't imagine Stan's boss being good at that sort of thing.

The scenes with Henry and Stan were good.

[sistermagpie]

Just now, Erin9 said:

Henry saw the mail robot!! That was priceless given his parents history with it.  And told his parents about the vault. He unknowingly gave his spy parents interesting info. Loved that Stan told Henry the truth about what the FBI can do to people- make them have difficulty trusting anyone and ruins relationships. I think that took some of Henry's enthusiasm away. And showed Stan's own burnout too. 

The Vault isn't new info for P&E. They ran Martha for years and she may have even mentioned it in the pilot. (The recapper seemed to think it was new info too, but it's definitely not.)

Here's the thing that struck me--wtf were Philip and Tuan watching? I think that song is from the movie Cranes are Flying, but iirc that movie is in b&w and they were watching something in color. Either way it doesn’t seem like something Tuan would be popping into the VCR. Either he’s decided he wants to watch war-themed Russian songs from the 50s (and either found some on TV or borrowed it from Pasha on VHS or something) or he and Philip and watching a sad Russian movie about WWII. Maybe he asked Pasha's mom for a Russian movie to bond with his fake dad (without telling her that, of course) and this was what she had. But again...not b&w so probably not the movie.

Don’t get me wrong, though. I was a sobbing mess at the end of the movie and it certainly has some thematic connection to Anna’s story.

The Jennings’ little exchange about Matthew was funny. It seemed completely based on his haircut.

Wonder if they’re going to consider telling Henry the truth if Elizabeth is actually considering going home. Maybe he can just go home to Odessa on break. They can tell him they've opened a field office and he'd be so convinced of their boring-ness he'd never catch on.

3 minutes ago, Tetraneutron said:

Liked the Natalie Granholme story. I mean, yeah, it was brutal to watch, but compared to the multipart saga of whether some Soviet party bureaucrats we've never heard of are on the take and whether or nor Stan's boring girlfriend is real, it was nice to see something ACTUALLY HAPPEN.

It was very season 1 in a good way. We got basically a Mission-of-the-Week episode where the meaning for P&E was obvious.

5 minutes ago, Tetraneutron said:

And why is it P and E spend multiple scenes every episode discussing in detail their Paige strategy, but we never hear what their Henry strategy is. Are they grooming him? Has Paige's breakdown convinced them (ok, Elizabeth) they DON'T want Henry to be a second-gen illegal after all? How do they feel about their son's surrogate father and his access to the inner circle of the FBI? These are things the audience needs to know.

Yeah, I don’t know. When Elizabeth said Stan wasn’t “getting” Henry I was like...how would you stop him? It seems like they’re just not dealing with Henry, though. I mean, they’re not actually grooming Paige either. Everything they’re doing with her now is about parenting her through this, not recruiting her. So they probably are both silently agreeing to simply not deal with Henry until the Centre forces the issues, since Henry himself isn’t going to do it.

His conversation with Stan (who could tell Henry was laying it on thick in his essay--Henry's quite the slick suck up when he wants to be; I suspect he's like that with Chris's dad) was nicely foreboding if the kid ever figures out he’s the family member who’s not trusted.

[Umbelina]

After reading a few excellent reviews (posted in the Media thread) I really kind of wish Philip had said something like "she was Paige's age."

Maybe too much, maybe it was already there in subtext, and certainly the line would have to be better than that, but still.

1 minute ago, sistermagpie said:

The Vault isn't new info for P&E. They ran Martha for years and she may have even mentioned it in the pilot. (The recapper seemed to think it was new info too, but it's definitely not.)

 

None of the recappers I've read so far caught that.  I knew Philip knew about the vault.  Martha told him a couple of times things like "you know they never let me in there."

[Dev F]

6 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

After reading a few excellent reviews (posted in the Media thread) I really kind of wish Philip had said something like "she was Paige's age."

Maybe too much, maybe it was already there in subtext, and certainly the line would have to be better than that, but still.

The tricky thing, though, is that she wasn't just Paige's age. She was also Elizabeth when she was raped, and Philip playing with his father, and Henry being tempted by the enemy. It's like Oleg's suspect told him -- he thinks he's righting an aberrant injustice, but it's how everything works, what everyone does.

[Erin9]

16 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

After reading a few excellent reviews (posted in the Media thread) I really kind of wish Philip had said something like "she was Paige's age."

Maybe too much, maybe it was already there in subtext, and certainly the line would have to be better than that, but still.

None of the recappers I've read so far caught that.  I knew Philip knew about the vault.  Martha told him a couple of times things like "you know they never let me in there."

I'd forgotten that, though it makes sense. Still, Henry coming home and telling his spy parents  all about his field trip to enemy territory was pretty priceless. Considering how over everything E and P are though, I'm not sure anything Henry could have said would have resonated too much with them. But, I still think it's interesting how, despite all Stan's precautions, little bits of info slide out just the same one way or another. 

[jjj]

I'll just focus on the one bright spot in this episode for now:  seeing the Mail Robot! was like finding out your best friend from high school, who went away to college and you didn't see for years, suddenly turned up living on the next block.  What a happy sight!  The years just melted away...

[MisterBluxom]

Something struck me as curious during this episode.

Phillip is in Henry's room and tells his son that when his mother gets home, he should tell her that Phillip will be back around 8 pm. Then Phillip gets into his car and drives over to Tuan's house.  My question is: When did he change into his airline uniform, his wig and his moustache?

Did he go into the secret room in the garage to change? If so, he must have done this sort of thing many times over the years. Elizabeth must have done it too.

So, what happens if Henry hears him start the car and thinks of something he needs to ask his father and runs out of the house to ask him just as he is backing the car out of the garage? What happens when he sees him in his uniform, wig and moustache? And I'm guessing he doesn't have an automatic garage door closer. What happens when the neighbors (especially Stan) sees him get out of his car and walk to the garage door to close it while he's wearing this disguise?

Stan would have some questions. Wouldn't he? Also the other neighbors. And their kids. How do P & E make this transformation and enter and exit their home with no one seeing them?

Edited May 17, 2017 by MissBluxom

[jjj]

They have always had another location where they change and switch cars.  When they get home, they are back in their regular mode of hairstyles and outfits.  They must have a lot of cars stashed somewhere.

23 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

Something struck me as curious during this episode.

Phillip is in Henry's room and tells his son that when his mother gets home, he should tell her that Phillip will be back around 8 pm. Then Phillip gets into his car and drives over to Tuan's house.  My question is: When did he change into his airline uniform, his wig and his moustache?

Did he go into the secret room in the garage to change? If so, he must have done this sort of thing many times over the years. Elizabeth must have done it too.

So, what happens if Henry hears him start the car and thinks of something he needs to ask his father and runs out of the house to ask him just as he is backing the car out of the garage? What happens when he sees him in his uniform, wig and moustache? And I'm guessing he doesn't have an automatic garage door closer. What happens when the neighbors (especially Stan) sees him get out of his car and walk to the garage door to close it while he's wearing this disguise?

 

[PinkRibbons]

Hearing Zhuravli in the opening nearly made me jump out of my skin it was so familiar. And so freaking apt it blows my mind. Not only is it about fallen soldiers in WW2, which ties so neatly into the plot of this episode, it plays over Philip, a man trapped into his life as a soldier. The lyrics are about the souls of soldiers that become white cranes, and how the singer looks up and sees a gap in the flock of birds and thinks some day he'll be one of those cranes. The singer was dying when he recorded it and it's a thirty-hanky heartbreaker.

The interrogation of Natalie drove me nuts because the first thing they should have done was make her show them the oldest photos of herself that they could find. I was truly willing to believe she wasn't the woman they were looking for up until the line about getting drunk the first time she shot anyone. She's such a parallel for Philip and Elizabeth as all of them being victims of their superiors.

Fomina has balls of steel, the way she stared down Oleg and Other Guy. She didn't call them "high and mighty" -- what was funny was that I was sure one of the words she used was one we applied to our family cat. Mama just confirmed that she used a Russian phrase that literally means "white and fluffy" (essentially meaning "pretending to be pure and innocent". But they and our cat are all fluffy.)

Edited May 17, 2017 by PinkRibbons

[jjj]

I thought Natalie could have easily played to their doubts (Phillip's for sure, and even Elizabeth started to look like she could waver in the middle of it) -- if Natalie had just sounded like she was making up locations ("the basketball stadium next to piroshky row") just to keep her husband safe, I think that could have bought her an out.  But like Betty a few seasons ago, once she had seen them and talked to them, she was a goner. 

10 minutes ago, PinkRibbons said:

The interrogation of Natalie drove me nuts because the first thing they should have done was make her show them the oldest photos of herself that they could find. I was truly willing to believe she wasn't the woman they were looking for up until the line about getting drunk the first time she shot anyone. She's such a parallel for Philip and Elizabeth as all of them being victims of their superiors.

[minamurray78]

Quote

 

Well that was nasty business. Awful. Let's see how the Centre feels about early retirement.

Also, was the KGB really that unaware of the magnitude of the food distribution problem or were they just sending lackys to harass store managers to keep up appaearances? This storyline is dragging.

Henry fawning over the mail bot was so cute. Get out Henry, while you can!

[chocolatine]

59 minutes ago, jjj said:

But like Betty a few seasons ago, once she had seen them and talked to them, she was a goner. 

This exactly. Once she'd seen them, it didn't matter whether she was guilty, innocent, or anywhere in between. P&E have killed many innocent people before, and even though it's been taking its toll on them, they weren't going to leave a job unfinished.

1 hour ago, PinkRibbons said:

Fomina has balls of steel, the way she stared down Oleg and Other Guy. She didn't call them "high and mighty" -- what was funny was that I was sure one of the words she used was one we applied to our family cat. Mama just confirmed that she used a Russian phrase that literally means "white and fluffy" (essentially meaning "pretending to be pure and innocent". But they and our cat are all fluffy.)

I was stunned how bluntly she spoke to them. She either has a death wish, or friends in very high places who she thinks are going to bail her out.

The mail robot lives! Henry is a smart guy, I hope he figures out what his parents are up to and goes to Stan before P&E can take him to Russia.

[Bannon]

3 hours ago, Shriekingeel said:

Ugh. This episode really ticked me off--I hate when fiction writers play around with the facts of WWII/Holocaust history for dramatic effect. Hate. It. (William Styron, I'm looking at you). 

The Nazis never used women in their execution squads. Never. The writers made it a woman just to be more manipulative. And the execution squads themselves (Einsatzgruppen) were specifically for the killing of Jews and "commissars", that is, Communist Party leadership. The Nazis felt no urgency to kill rank and file non-Jewish Russians: they were needed for slave labor in Germany, where they were worked to death in vast numbers. 

Being lowered into a vat of boiling oil is too good for our serial killers P&E. Don't think I've ever hated any television character as much as I hate these two. 

Eh, I can't even work up any emotions, because the whole episode has so many preposterous elements.  The historical facts you note, the idea that a 16 year old girl's family will be executed, and then the Nazis would give her a rifle and have her join an execution squad to murder fellow Russians? Ugh. Even more stupid is the idea that the Nazis, in utter logistical desperation on the Eastern Front, would use resources to transport a young Russian girl to Germany, so she could receive hospital treatment for her venereal diseases. I'm nearly laughing out loud just typing the words. Good grief, how could a professional writer  engage in such schlock? Egads.

Then we get to the notion of FBI counterintelligence, in the recent past having been victimized by a listening device in a pen, allowing high school civilians to observe their innermost headquarters, with explanations provided as to security procedures. Huh?

I know some differ, but I thought the dialogue between Stan and Henry was clunky as hell, and I think that the writers are starting to, unfortunately, write pretty pedestrian dialogue for P &E, like when Liz had her initial exchange  with Mrs. Nazi Collaborator. Really stilted.

I don't mean to be excessively negative on a show that many here still obviously enjoy, and one which has had elements, even into this season, which I really have enjoyed as well. That's my honest reaction, however, and if these writers (with whom I've grown very irritated with), don't take some major positive steps in the next two episodes, I may not bother with the last year. Yes, I'm sure they are very concerned (sarcasm).

Edited May 17, 2017 by Bannon
Typo

[Bannon]

28 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

This exactly. Once she'd seen them, it didn't matter whether she was guilty, innocent, or anywhere in between. P&E have killed many innocent people before, and even though it's been taking its toll on them, they weren't going to leave a job unfinished.

I was stunned how bluntly she spoke to them. She either has a death wish, or friends in very high places who she thinks are going to bail her out.

The mail robot lives! Henry is a smart guy, I hope he figures out what his parents are up to and goes to Stan before P&E can take him to Russia.

I thought the blunt talk from the secretary was the the one effective scene from this episode. This is the Soviet State just prior to entering its death throes. The level of cynicism, from all corners of society, is truly towering. Nobody believes any longer, and to really inculcate fear and terror, a regime needs to have believers. In a few short years, the Berlin Wall will fall, when nobody has enough belief left to shoot people who try to cross a border.

[MisterBluxom]

4 hours ago, jjj said:

They have always had another location where they change and switch cars.  When they get home, they are back in their regular mode of hairstyles and outfits.  They must have a lot of cars stashed somewhere.

Aha. Thanks for that.

[Doyounot]

"He thinks im wonderful" wow that was some good stuff and him saying he knows who she is! Sad episode but loved Henry being so enthusiastic about everything fbi and Stan being like eh more trouble than its worth or later pouring his heart out about what it makes you like was awesome. From the outside things always look so good. I also thought his reporting to his parents was jokes he got so much info so fast little does he know what they have to do to learn all of that! "Hes not getting him" was also great!

The song in the beginning gave me the feels even though i couldnt understand the words i knew a handful, enough to know it applied to Phillip and the show and wasnt just random sadness! Thank you PinkRibbons for the translation and also for the correct phrase she used i never understood why they dont just write that like we wouldnt understand what she meant if they didnt use an english phrase that is i guess close.

[Ina123]

From what we saw of Henry's visit, I would have thought his first words to his parents would have been about the mail robot. That would have provoked memory of Elizabeth forcing the older woman to OD on her meds while Phillip bugged the mail robot. They could have exchanged those  furtive glances more befitting of their current mood.

Or Henry's next conversation will be about the mail robot and how he wants too go into robotics.

[Ina123]

BTW, was the interrogation of a mentally ill person by the KGB guy possibly Misha?

[JFParnell]

Ugh. Brutal episode. Sorry -- I know, she's a kind of soldier in her thinking, yada yada. But Elizabeth is such a crime against humanity. I know she's a true believer and all, but she has to be stopped. Good thing, at least, she's going to stop herself. Haven't been as mad at her since she offed that poor old sick woman during the mailbot bugging op in that warehouse. I half hoped Philip would think "Is this really US?" and turn his gun on her. And I haven't forgotten .. didn't she crush some dude beneath a car in an earlier season while making an escape? (the details are fuzzy, but E did not spend much time agonizing over that one ...)

Obligatory disclaimer: Yup, Philip is no saint either. Just ask poor non-spy wheat scientist lab guy. But he came by his weariness a lot sooner than his spy bride.

Are they ever going to be made to SWEAT a little bit? That's always bugged me. They move and act, and kill, all too freely. It's been forever since they have had a true, razor-close brush with being caught out and facing life in prison.

P&E listening to Henry tell about his FBI field trip was funny. I know it seems now they're feeling mixed about involving their children, but I could have sworn their look was like: "Ack! We told the wrong kid! Here we could work Henry into the FB freakin' I! But instead our dear Paige is spying the daylights out of...  Pastor Tim."

On the upside... something happened! Woot. There was some actual high drama :) Even though this season still feels as all-over-the-place as ever.

I'm trying but I just can't get into the Oleg storyline.

[BetyBee]

When Philip winced when Henry closed the door, then went to spend time with his faux son, I wanted to punch him.  You did this, P&E!  You ignored your real life son and left him alone and he was resourceful enough to make a life for himself.  Too bad, so sad.  Stan may well get him.  What hold do you have on him?  None.  He certainly will not want to go "home" to Mother Russia.  

P&E could see a bit of themselves in Natalie and John, I think.  By the time it was all over anyway  They've done awful things too and others would see them as the enemy.  Suppose they retire and stay in America.  Someone could come for them one day in much the same way.  

[Jodithgrace]

When they were questioning Natalie, I kept shouting at the television (in my mind) "Ask her for a photo album, even a wedding picture so you can compare it to the younger photo you have." It was driving me crazy. So easy to prove she is or isn't who she says. Her present face was so round, not triangular like the young photo, i would never have thought it was the same person. 

[whiporee]

I'm glad to see Pat Buchanan got a gig writing TV, because that was about as "the USSR was monstrous" as one could find. Corruption in Moscow, using bio weapons, plotting to kill people without a lot of evidence and then killing people placed in impossible situations for behaving impossibly. And their husband because they happened to be there, too. 

Way too many logistical problems tonight. I mentioned this early in the year, but because they knew the end was coming but not here this year, the showrunners feel they have the luxury of time and they are using it to the viewers' detriment. Because, honestly, this episode was just dumb. There's no way the Center would reveal to its spies they delivered a bio weapon, and there's NO WAY even if they did, Claudia would tell P&E that. There's no way Henry's hanging around the FBI taking notes on that floor. There's no way the Center risks P&E to take out this woman. There's no way the Nazis used her to execute people. There's no way she was able to keep her calm and stick to her story as long as she did, and then only confess when her husband was already in danger -- if she was going to tell the truth to save him, she would have done it before he came home. The only thing that saves him once he's in the house is that if P&E believe she's not the person they accuse her of being. And then the Moscow scenes that just lead to nothing except what we already knew -- the USSR was corrupt and bad and everyone did what they had to do.

Which ties back into the central issue. Elizabeth Jennings is a stone killer. She's a murderer. Natalie wasn't collateral damage -- she and her husband were executed for crimes committed, without the benefit of trial or circumstances. This wasn't a moral quandary about what to do or serving the greater good -- this was killing for revenge and on orders. How in the world are we supposed to do anything from this point on other than hope she gets a bullet in the head, too? 

But I did have an idea -- what if the mail robot ends up being the Jenning's reveal?  Henry didn't mention it in his paper or to his parents, then Phillip says something to Stan about it and the whole thing unravels because how would he know unless he was a spy. It would be more than fitting that after all it's been through, the mail robot ends up saving the day.

Edited May 17, 2017 by whiporee

[teddysmom]

Well that escalated quickly. I mean, that got out of hand really fast.

Gosh, you get to see your parents murdered by Nazis, forced to dig their graves, raped by same Nazis, given so much to drink you can't stand up, told to shoot Russian prisoners, or probably you'll be shot.

Judgmental much, Elizabeth?

[SunnyBeBe]

I agree that the story of the young girl who was forced to shoot soldiers was hard to swallow.  I see that from post above, this never happened during that time. That whole story seemed too contrived to me AND I was frustrated by how P & E handled it. If they aren't sure that she is the actual woman, then grill her at a time and location where her husband would not have to be killed too.  And to do it in the home....now their adult children's home has a marred memory of the brutal murder of both their parents.  P & E could have done it elsewhere and made it appear to be an accident.  Their approach was just stupid and needlessly cruel.  I think I've turned the corner and from now on, will root for their take down.  I've been understanding of them to this point, but, naaay.  They need to go down. 

I almost feel sorry for Stan.  Regardless, of his explanation, the fact that he brought a family member of Russian spies into his office........there are no excuses. 

This  episode made it appear that Oleg and his partner aren't very competent. Are they really that ignorant? 

[shura]

9 hours ago, Tetraneutron said:

the multipart saga of whether some Soviet party bureaucrats we've never heard of are on the take

That's exactly what Oleg's story line is. It's like a middle school play written by a six grader who is not very good at it. We are told a linear story that boils down to "and then this person they caught named that guy, then they talked to that guy and he named the next person, and it's all so impressive in it's scale and scope." But we never know any of these people to care or feel anything particularly impressive there (we are just told it is all impressive). Nor do we ever get a chance to figure out anything that is not fed to us by this "writer." Once I got that there is bribery and corruption, there is nothing interesting shown there anymore. "You don't know who you are dealing with! It's Kirillov himself!" Who?

[MisterBluxom]

There is another detail about this episode that bothers me. But I'm going to put it in a spoiler box because it contains some descriptions of very bloody and gory things and so anyone who doesn't like to read or see that kind of stuff is advised to ignore it:

Spoiler

I'm talking about the scene where the two married people are shot in the foreheads. I've never seen anyone get shot. Not anywhere on their bodies. But from what I do know, I would expect that when anyone is shot in the forehead, there would be a big mess of blood and other bio matter come gushing out of their head. Even if they are shot with the smallest possible bullet (like a .22) with a very weak charge (like a "short .22" and a bullet designed not to open a big hole, I can't imagine the real life aftermath would be just a tiny little hole and a tiny little spurt of blood like we were shown.

But I'd like to ask if anyone has any rl experience and can verify whether the way this scene was shot was plausible. Was it plausible? Or was it intentionally altered so as not to disturb many viewers who would object to scenes with a lot of blood and gore?

Edited May 17, 2017 by MissBluxom

[benteen]

I have no idea why they didn't just do a snatch and grab with the Russian woman.  It's not like they were trying to get at another trained agent.  Just snatch her and get her away from that location.  Flat out executing her and her husband in their own home is going to attract a major investigation by the police.  Making her disappear would have triggered an investigation too but not like this.

Edited May 17, 2017 by benteen

[Novel8]

There is another detail about this episode that bothers me. But I'm going to put it in a spoiler box because it contains some descriptions of very bloody and gory things and so anyone who doesn't like to read or see that kind of stuff is advised to ignore it:

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I'm talking about the scene where the two married people are shot in the foreheads. I've never seen anyone get shot. Not anywhere on their bodies. But from what I do know, I would expect that when anyone is shot in the forehead, there would be a big mess of blood and other bio matter come gushing out of their head. Even if they are shot with the smallest possible bullet (like a .22) with a very weak charge (like a "short .22" and a bullet designed not to open a big hole, I can't imagine the real life aftermath would be just a tiny little hole and a tiny little spurt of blood like we were shown.

But I'd like to ask if anyone has any rl experience and can verify whether the way this scene was shot was plausible. Was it plausible? Or was it intentionally altered so as not to disturb many viewers who would object to scenes with a lot of blood and gore?

There was a long shot of the room showing a pool of blood on the floor...BTW, remember its just a TV show, did you actually expect to see the brains popping out?

[Novel8]

  10 hours ago, Tetraneutron said:

the multipart saga of whether some Soviet party bureaucrats we've never heard of are on the take

That's exactly what Oleg's story line is. It's like a middle school play written by a six grader who is not very good at it. We are told a linear story that boils down to "and then this person they caught named that guy, then they talked to that guy and he named the next person, and it's all so impressive in it's scale and scope." But we never know any of these people to care or feel anything particularly impressive there (we are just told it is all impressive). Nor do we ever get a chance to figure out anything that is not fed to us by this "writer." Once I got that there is bribery and corruption, there is nothing interesting shown there anymore. "You don't know who you are dealing with! It's Kirillov himself!" Who?

Personally, i don't care for the Russian scenes. What does it have to do with the main plot? At the beginning I thought it would have something to do with it, but now its rambling off in different directions.

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, Erin9 said:

Henry saw the mail robot!! That was priceless given his parents history with it.

Not to mention Stan's comment: "It's more trouble than it's worth." Hee. 

10 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

The Jennings’ little exchange about Matthew was funny. It seemed completely based on his haircut.

They weren't wrong, though. Matthew doesn't seem like the type to pull himself together and get motivated.

9 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

Fomina has balls of steel, the way she stared down Oleg and Other Guy.

I loved that she wasn't the least intimidated by either of them.

[teddysmom]

Quote

I agree that the story of the young girl who was forced to shoot soldiers was hard to swallow.  I see that from post above, this never happened during that time. 

You don't believe the Nazis were capable of doing what she said they did? 

[Bannon]

20 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

There is another detail about this episode that bothers me. But I'm going to put it in a spoiler box because it contains some descriptions of very bloody and gory things and so anyone who doesn't like to read or see that kind of stuff is advised to ignore it:

  Hide contents

I'm talking about the scene where the two married people are shot in the foreheads. I've never seen anyone get shot. Not anywhere on their bodies. But from what I do know, I would expect that when anyone is shot in the forehead, there would be a big mess of blood and other bio matter come gushing out of their head. Even if they are shot with the smallest possible bullet (like a .22) with a very weak charge (like a "short .22" and a bullet designed not to open a big hole, I can't imagine the real life aftermath would be just a tiny little hole and a tiny little spurt of blood like we were shown.

But I'd like to ask if anyone has any rl experience and can verify whether the way this scene was shot was plausible. Was it plausible? Or was it intentionally altered so as not to disturb many viewers who would object to scenes with a lot of blood and gore?

A .22 doesn't make much of a mess. It really is the preferred round in a lot of assasinations. The bullet bounces around inside the skull, thoroughly destroying the brain, but the amount of gore escaping the skull is pretty minimal, until the bleed out takes place, and even that may be very reduced. Use a subsonic round (plenty of killing power at close range) with a suppressor, and the sound is very minimal. 

[SheTV]

10 minutes ago, benteen said:

I have no idea why they didn't just do a snatch and grab with the Russian woman.  It's not like they were trying to get at another trained agent.  Just snatch her and get her away from what location.  Flat out executing her and her husband in their own home is going to attract a major investigation by the police.  Making her disappear would have triggered an investigation too but not like this.

My thoughts exactly.  And in addition, if P&E, who are very obviously not at the top of their game right now, forgot to or didn't take the time to sweep the room for evidence, the authorities will have E's fingerprints, as she touched both the pitcher and the glass when Natalie/Anna asked for water.  I know that's a really lame old school tv/movie trope, but it's something I noticed.

[Bannon]

2 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

You don't believe the Nazis were capable of doing what she said they did? 

They were capable of anything. They would have had too much contempt for a 16 year old Russian girl to hand her a rifle and conscript her into an execution squad for common Russian soldiers, who were seen as slave labor with value. Also, the idea that they would use precious transport resources to get her to a scarce hospital bed, in Germany, so she could be treated, with very scarce medicine, for her venereal diseases, is just ridiculously stupid. The only really reason I can think of for the writers to engage in such patent nonsense is that they were trying to be salacious, for some unfathomable reason. It is inexcusable that this escaped a writers' meeting. Are these people even trying anymore?

[stagmania]

2 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

When they were questioning Natalie, I kept shouting at the television (in my mind) "Ask her for a photo album, even a wedding picture so you can compare it to the younger photo you have." It was driving me crazy. So easy to prove she is or isn't who she says. Her present face was so round, not triangular like the young photo, i would never have thought it was the same person. 

Clearly they wanted us to doubt whether she was the culprit until the final moments, just like P&E. I admit, they had me going.

1 hour ago, teddysmom said:

Well that escalated quickly. I mean, that got out of hand really fast.

Gosh, you get to see your parents murdered by Nazis, forced to dig their graves, raped by same Nazis, given so much to drink you can't stand up, told to shoot Russian prisoners, or probably you'll be shot.

Judgmental much, Elizabeth?

Seems pretty clear that Elizabeth felt sympathy for her and hated having to kill them. Which is why the immediate next scene is her finally joining Philip in wanting to GTFO of this life.

What a great, brutal episode. The final two of the season seem poised for big change.

[Bannon]

25 minutes ago, benteen said:

I have no idea why they didn't just do a snatch and grab with the Russian woman.  It's not like they were trying to get at another trained agent.  Just snatch her and get her away from what location.  Flat out executing her and her husband in their own home is going to attract a major investigation by the police.  Making her disappear would have triggered an investigation too but not like this.

The writers are making the characters stupid, for purposes of plot advancement. They wanted to get the husband murdered as well, because it heightens the internal conflict P & E feel, since the husband is pretty much an innocent. So they have P&E  keep Miss Nazi Collabotator with Venereal Disease of 1942 in the house, so the husband, like so, so, many of P&E's murder victims, can show up in time to be murdered.

The more I read and write about this episode, the more irritated I get with the writers of this show. What was a minor annoyance for most of this show's run is now really bugging me, because I think the writers have squandered so much, given how many terrific actors they had the benefit of, and given this is one of the great premises for a show in television history. I want to make them write with antique typewriters for a year as punishment.