Speculation Without Spoilers

[Gobi]

I would love to see a sequel series with Kim and Howard set in the BB timeline or beyond. It would be possible to have some interaction with the BB or BCS characters in ways that don't affect the established events in BB. 

[shapeshifter]

16 hours ago, Gobi said:

I would love to see a sequel series with Kim and Howard set in the BB timeline or beyond. It would be possible to have some interaction with the BB or BCS characters in ways that don't affect the established events in BB. 

I imagine that the industry is very close to being able to generate animations based on footage of live action that gives the appearance of being live action with the original actors. When that threshold is crossed, I wonder if the original actors would get any royalties, and I also wonder if it will be entirely automated so that it is just an app that anyone can run.

Another variation of this would be software that ages actors up or down in the editing process.

[gallimaufry]

Okay, here's a wild piece of speculation.  

Kim is cagey about where she grew up.  We don't know anything about her family.  We know nothing about her past before she started in the mail room at HHM.  She seems comfortable in the grifter groove even though she's very paranoid about staying on the straight and narrow.  She also had a strong negative reaction to the bank models and seems to spend a lot of time looking at them but also looking at the locations.  What if she's actually looking for a particular location?  As in, worried that she might one day her work might take her too near to a particular location to which she daren't return?

Why would this worry her?  Why be so vague?  My completely off-the-wall speculation is that Kim was the first person the "Disappearer" disappeared and it's through him that Saul knows of his existence.

Extreme long-shot but I kind of like the symmetry that Kim is another "Gene".

[PeterPirate]

2 hours ago, gallimaufry said:

Okay, here's a wild piece of speculation.  

Kim is cagey about where she grew up.  We don't know anything about her family.  We know nothing about her past before she started in the mail room at HHM.  She seems comfortable in the grifter groove even though she's very paranoid about staying on the straight and narrow.  She also had a strong negative reaction to the bank models and seems to spend a lot of time looking at them but also looking at the locations.  What if she's actually looking for a particular location?  As in, worried that she might one day her work might take her too near to a particular location to which she daren't return?

Why would this worry her?  Why be so vague?  My completely off-the-wall speculation is that Kim was the first person the "Disappearer" disappeared and it's through him that Saul knows of his existence.

Extreme long-shot but I kind of like the symmetry that Kim is another "Gene".

I also think Kim is going to visit the Disappearer.  Although I think the reason will be to cover up something she did with Jimmy, and not before she came to HHM.  

Edited August 25, 2018 by PeterPirate

[gallimaufry]

Here's a wild one.  At some point, Saul needs to cross the line that he's comfortable allowing or even advocating for people to be killed and that means these characters will need to be set up earlier.  I wonder if the two nitwits from 502 are going to be those people.  It's kind of a dark mirror of the skateboarders from 102 - a pair of losers nobody is exactly going to mourn.  But Jimmy risked his neck against Tuco to save the skateboarders.  With these guys, Jimmy letting them die would not such a dark step that the audience would recoil (like killing Howard or Kim) but it would be a set of characters we're a little familiar with.

[gallimaufry]

So with at least another year before we're likely to see the final season, here are some thoughts on how the characters might pan out.  They've talked about wanting to give the characters good endings but what are these endings to be?

I'm not inclined to believe most of them will die, except Mike as he's already dead and of course at some point I reckon we'll see some kind of montage showing the body count of BCS characters who die in BB which is a fairly prodigious list - Hank, Gomez, Domingo, Hector, Gus, Schuler, Tyrus, Victor, the cousins, Gale, Tuco, Lydia, Bolsa, Eladio... and that's just the ones we know about!  Of course, BB killed off Hank and Walt and that precedent is there for characters like Kim, Nacho and Jimmy.  But  I also think in some ways, Hank's ending was actually positive for him in that he died a hero having solved the case of his life.  If he'd lived, his career would have been over, his family in pieces... for the man who was terrified of the violence that came with his job, he ultimately did die the man he thought he was.  This is a show about characters keeping going and trying to come to terms with the past.  

Nacho... if his dad dies, it's going to be very bleak.  But if Nacho dies, it's going to be very depressing for his dad.  Plus, if he dies in some grand, redemptive gesture, does that really fit the show's themes about how hard and awful it is to climb your way to respect?  I do feel like Nacho has a Jesse path ahead of him... he's going to go through hell but live.  In some ways, if his dad is dead, it means he no longer has a moral compass to orientate himself and needs to figure out a way forward on his own... but I don't know how we'd see that.

Mike... man, what is a good ending for Mike given that we know he dies and is then "vanished"?  I reckon the whole thing is planned.  The person flipping at the right time, the non-Saul lawyer being involved... it feels like there's room here to retcon this so that Mike actually plans his own exit, perhaps drawing Walt's attention so that Saul can do something.  I don't think his actual death was intended but I think it was probably, by this point, factored in.  Also... is leaving a massive great pile of blood money in a box for Kayleigh really the way he comes back from "breaking" his boy?  It feels more like the smoking gun that's been left on purpose because the DEA know he's involved but can't prove he's involved.  Maybe, like the Dave Clark play, the DEA have been given all the information they need only for a key weakness in the case to be exposed later on causing the case to topple like a house of cards and allowing Kayleigh to keep at least something.

To me, the scene that needs to happen for Mike with regard to Kayleigh is the one Walt had with Skyler in "Felina": "I did it for me."  I doubt it could be with Kayleigh herself unless by a letter which isn't the show's style generally (although it might make a nice mirror to Chuck's).  However, multiple times, Mike has run away from opportunities to support Kayleigh and Stacey - blowing off the support group, blowing up at Kayleigh - and has levelled himself out by earning money in their name.  Was this what she needed or wanted?  Like Matty, Kayleigh is an innocent who puts Mike on a pedestal.  Does Mike subconsciously want Kayleigh to think badly of him as a kind of punishment?

Howard... I really like Howard but then I really liked Hank who was similarly set up as the character you'd dislike but shown to be quite a warm and decent person.  I think the show can't end before Jimmy and Kim metaphorically (and, god knows, maybe literally) burn HHM to the ground.   I'd kind of love to see Howard able to pick himself and start again as he always wanted to do and show that resilience, that he can still be happy and not carry a grudge and continue to learn and grow.  But for this ending to be earned, he'd really have to go through some hell first and I'm not sure whether they're as interested in Howard any more as a character in his own right... just like Marie who really ceased to have any role of note after she learned of Hank's death.

One sidenote... the show tries to be timeless and Vince Gilligan talked about not wanting the show to be too topical.  However, a subconscious backdrop to "Breaking Bad" at the very start was the financial crash and the idea that people were struggling.  Of course, it was conceived and probably shot before the credit crunch so I don't for a second think it was an intentional link but nonetheless I think it added a frisson of relevance to Walt's situation.  I wouldn't normally expect this to factor in one iota to BCS except for two things... one, Kim's experience in banking and the centrality for all these seasons of the growth of Mesa Verde.  If we collide into the BB timeline, we're also going to collide into a much tougher, more cutthroat situation for Mesa Verde.  Secondly, Peter Gould also wrote "Too Big to Fail" about this very era so it's territory he knew well.  The downside is still that the show has a long record of using intrinsic motivations near-exclusively -- even Walt's lack of money was superseded as his primary motivation by the end of episode 4.  However, they do sometimes use bad luck to heighten an already-dramatic situation (e.g. Ted's trip).

Kim... I've always thought she ends up working with the elderly.  At first I thought the fact that she took Jimmy's contact list in the S3 finale was a clue but I'm not sure she can come out of this still a lawyer.  I could see her working in an old people's home though.  Dirt poor but fulfilled.

And then there's Jimmy - what's a satisfying ending for him?  It seems to me that Jimmy's original sin was when he was saved from prison.  He even says in the S1 finale that the Chicago sunroof was when it all went wrong and that's what he's been paying for ever since.  But he never paid for it.  Chuck saved him but then felt a kind of ownership and the more Jimmy tried to repay that debt, the further he travelled from who he really is and ironically the more Chuck despised him.  Of course, if Chuck hadn't saved Jimmy, Jimmy would doubtless have slipped further into criminality at a much earlier stage.  Still, if Jimmy is to have a redemptive ending (and I feel that is where it's going), it needs to be on the back of having gone much further S5 Gene to seek redemption.  Perhaps having some grand play that would clear him of all BB charges and then letting the opportunity pass because he does, ultimately, deserve to pay for his crimes.  Luckily, because the show is set so far back in the past now, it would be quite possible to flash forward to the 2020s and have Jimmy coming out of prison having served a decade or more (though with so many crimes, it's difficult to imagine him ever getting free if he made an honest and full confession).  On the other hand, an externally-imposed method of redemption doesn't seem like these writers... I almost wonder if Gene will emerge from hiding to discover that the case against him has collapsed somehow, giving him his life back.  With no Chuck and possibly no Kim, no ability to practise law and no need to hide, what would a tabula rasa Jimmy make of his life?  I can't see his crimes vanishing though, even with some Kim magic, which means if he's not in prison, can he genuinely seek redemption for crimes he's still running away from? 

[scenario]

On 10/4/2020 at 2:35 PM, gallimaufry said:

So with at least another year before we're likely to see the final season, here are some thoughts on how the characters might pan out.  They've talked about wanting to give the characters good endings but what are these endings to be?

I'm not inclined to believe most of them will die, except Mike as he's already dead and of course at some point I reckon we'll see some kind of montage showing the body count of BCS characters who die in BB which is a fairly prodigious list - Hank, Gomez, Domingo, Hector, Gus, Schuler, Tyrus, Victor, the cousins, Gale, Tuco, Lydia, Bolsa, Eladio... and that's just the ones we know about!  Of course, BB killed off Hank and Walt and that precedent is there for characters like Kim, Nacho and Jimmy.  But  I also think in some ways, Hank's ending was actually positive for him in that he died a hero having solved the case of his life.  If he'd lived, his career would have been over, his family in pieces... for the man who was terrified of the violence that came with his job, he ultimately did die the man he thought he was.  This is a show about characters keeping going and trying to come to terms with the past.  

Nacho... if his dad dies, it's going to be very bleak.  But if Nacho dies, it's going to be very depressing for his dad.  Plus, if he dies in some grand, redemptive gesture, does that really fit the show's themes about how hard and awful it is to climb your way to respect?  I do feel like Nacho has a Jesse path ahead of him... he's going to go through hell but live.  In some ways, if his dad is dead, it means he no longer has a moral compass to orientate himself and needs to figure out a way forward on his own... but I don't know how we'd see that.

Mike... man, what is a good ending for Mike given that we know he dies and is then "vanished"?  I reckon the whole thing is planned.  The person flipping at the right time, the non-Saul lawyer being involved... it feels like there's room here to retcon this so that Mike actually plans his own exit, perhaps drawing Walt's attention so that Saul can do something.  I don't think his actual death was intended but I think it was probably, by this point, factored in.  Also... is leaving a massive great pile of blood money in a box for Kayleigh really the way he comes back from "breaking" his boy?  It feels more like the smoking gun that's been left on purpose because the DEA know he's involved but can't prove he's involved.  Maybe, like the Dave Clark play, the DEA have been given all the information they need only for a key weakness in the case to be exposed later on causing the case to topple like a house of cards and allowing Kayleigh to keep at least something.

To me, the scene that needs to happen for Mike with regard to Kayleigh is the one Walt had with Skyler in "Felina": "I did it for me."  I doubt it could be with Kayleigh herself unless by a letter which isn't the show's style generally (although it might make a nice mirror to Chuck's).  However, multiple times, Mike has run away from opportunities to support Kayleigh and Stacey - blowing off the support group, blowing up at Kayleigh - and has levelled himself out by earning money in their name.  Was this what she needed or wanted?  Like Matty, Kayleigh is an innocent who puts Mike on a pedestal.  Does Mike subconsciously want Kayleigh to think badly of him as a kind of punishment?

Howard... I really like Howard but then I really liked Hank who was similarly set up as the character you'd dislike but shown to be quite a warm and decent person.  I think the show can't end before Jimmy and Kim metaphorically (and, god knows, maybe literally) burn HHM to the ground.   I'd kind of love to see Howard able to pick himself and start again as he always wanted to do and show that resilience, that he can still be happy and not carry a grudge and continue to learn and grow.  But for this ending to be earned, he'd really have to go through some hell first and I'm not sure whether they're as interested in Howard any more as a character in his own right... just like Marie who really ceased to have any role of note after she learned of Hank's death.

One sidenote... the show tries to be timeless and Vince Gilligan talked about not wanting the show to be too topical.  However, a subconscious backdrop to "Breaking Bad" at the very start was the financial crash and the idea that people were struggling.  Of course, it was conceived and probably shot before the credit crunch so I don't for a second think it was an intentional link but nonetheless I think it added a frisson of relevance to Walt's situation.  I wouldn't normally expect this to factor in one iota to BCS except for two things... one, Kim's experience in banking and the centrality for all these seasons of the growth of Mesa Verde.  If we collide into the BB timeline, we're also going to collide into a much tougher, more cutthroat situation for Mesa Verde.  Secondly, Peter Gould also wrote "Too Big to Fail" about this very era so it's territory he knew well.  The downside is still that the show has a long record of using intrinsic motivations near-exclusively -- even Walt's lack of money was superseded as his primary motivation by the end of episode 4.  However, they do sometimes use bad luck to heighten an already-dramatic situation (e.g. Ted's trip).

Kim... I've always thought she ends up working with the elderly.  At first I thought the fact that she took Jimmy's contact list in the S3 finale was a clue but I'm not sure she can come out of this still a lawyer.  I could see her working in an old people's home though.  Dirt poor but fulfilled.

And then there's Jimmy - what's a satisfying ending for him?  It seems to me that Jimmy's original sin was when he was saved from prison.  He even says in the S1 finale that the Chicago sunroof was when it all went wrong and that's what he's been paying for ever since.  But he never paid for it.  Chuck saved him but then felt a kind of ownership and the more Jimmy tried to repay that debt, the further he travelled from who he really is and ironically the more Chuck despised him.  Of course, if Chuck hadn't saved Jimmy, Jimmy would doubtless have slipped further into criminality at a much earlier stage.  Still, if Jimmy is to have a redemptive ending (and I feel that is where it's going), it needs to be on the back of having gone much further S5 Gene to seek redemption.  Perhaps having some grand play that would clear him of all BB charges and then letting the opportunity pass because he does, ultimately, deserve to pay for his crimes.  Luckily, because the show is set so far back in the past now, it would be quite possible to flash forward to the 2020s and have Jimmy coming out of prison having served a decade or more (though with so many crimes, it's difficult to imagine him ever getting free if he made an honest and full confession).  On the other hand, an externally-imposed method of redemption doesn't seem like these writers... I almost wonder if Gene will emerge from hiding to discover that the case against him has collapsed somehow, giving him his life back.  With no Chuck and possibly no Kim, no ability to practise law and no need to hide, what would a tabula rasa Jimmy make of his life?  I can't see his crimes vanishing though, even with some Kim magic, which means if he's not in prison, can he genuinely seek redemption for crimes he's still running away from? 

I could see him go to prison. There are innocent people in prison and some prisoners who were seriously overcharged. The person caught with a small amount of drugs getting 20 years in prison because it was their 3rd strike. 3 minor crimes can = 20 years if you don't have a good lawyer. Or the person who was convicted of a crime he couldn't have done because he was in jail when it occurred but his lawyer screwed up and the prosecutor won't listen because it would make him look bad. Or the police officer who arrested him lied through his teeth to convict him but the guy's a no good addict so who cares.   So he takes a page from Kim and works to help the people in prison who don't really deserve to be there. He's not legally a lawyer anymore but that won't stop him from helping people write briefs and stuff. 

He gets out after 20 years and does what Kim wanted to do and becomes a prisoners advocate. 

[qtpye]

Some good theories.

[PeterPirate]

On 11/6/2020 at 11:39 PM, qtpye said:

Some good theories.

Good stuff.  I think Kim is going to get entangled with Lalo and the cartel.  

[Spartan Girl]

I think Vince Gilligan gave a pretty big hint on Kim’s face with the use of “Days of Wine and Roses” in the flash forward of Saul’s ridiculous mansion being repoed.

Days of Wine and Roses was about an alcoholic who gets his wife to start drinking, and she becomes a worse addict than him. It ultimately destroys their relationship and herself. Jimmy/Saul is starting to be wary of the person Kim is becoming, a change he is partly responsible for since he goaded her on this path. The question is, whether they’re just going to break up or if she’s going to get involved in the cartel and wind up dead.

My guess is both. As much as I hate the idea of fridging, it makes sense of Kim’s fate to be the final nail in the coffin of Jimmy McGill, and the true birth of the ruthless, corrupt and stupidly rich Saul we saw represented in the mansion.

[gallimaufry]

I agree that "Wine and Roses" is the key to the lock.  I watched the film after it showed up int he trailer because I was obsessed with the music.  But I don't think it suggests Kim will die.  The key thing about that film, it seems to me, is the push-pull nature of the relationship.  Jack Lemon starts it but he is also the first to make a serious attempt to clean up and nearly does so until his wife draws him back in.  And the end is uncertain -- it's not impossible that they could both have a happy ending but it seems a long way off.

Now look at Jimmy and Kim.  Can you imagine Kim walking back this path under her own steam, even if she were able?  She's had her wobbles along the way but since marriage and since committing by leaving S&C, I think she's all in.  Whereas Jimmy dips his toes in and then gets upset when things go wrong, Kim digs in and confronts her way out.  Plus both she and the pro bono business she's sunk all her hopes into is completely financially dependent on Saul Goodman.  He likes to play; she wants to win.  And while he understands the game ("the winner takes it all"), I still don't think he's decided if he's a wolf or a sheep.  I think Kim has decided to be a wolf - or perhaps she always was.

Now what would push Jimmy into being the soulless, murderous scumbag of "Breaking Bad"?  He's always feared that people look down on him -- and he's always feared that Kim looks down on him.  Fine to play with, not fine to share an office with.  And yet, I think there's an unpaid debt with Kim which is that Jimmy played her during the Mesa Verde slam -- given Kim's meticulous and vengeful nature, I don't think that has completely escaped her.  The double guns in 510 were a direct response to being blindsided by him (unwittingly) duping her at the bar hearing.  So what if the situation occurs that Jimmy wants to backpedal or even just confront the fact that Kim has lost her moral compass?

Well, we've seen how Kim would deal with being backed into a corner.  She finds the biggest shark in the sea and she makes a big, bold offer.  She did it with Wachtell.  She did it with Schweikert.  And now I think she'll do it with Gus.  Saul is the kind of lawyer guilty people hire.  Kim is the kind of lawyer the great and the good hire.  Funding the DEA to the hilt while running a drug empire - that feels to me like a Kim move, not like BCS Gus.  Doing some good to offset something bad.  And let's be frank -- with Gus's platform, Kim could do a lot of good.  An awful lot of good.  Mike was devastated when Gus was killed and asked Walt, "Do you have any idea what you've done?" I wonder if there was something worth protecting there - beyond the village dedicated to Max.

Where does that leave Jimmy?  He's not only "ruined" Kim as he sees it (and as Chuck called it) but she still looks down on him -- he's not even the best grifter.  I think the anger he'd feel and the way he'd act out would bring him to becoming the Saul of "Breaking Bad".

Fast-forward to the end -- Kim more or less has to be in the wind or dead by the "Breaking Bad" era as, for one thing, she'd be on Lydia's hitlist in BB502.  But without Kim, there's no possibility for that bittersweet ending of "Wine and Roses" so I don't think she's dead and we know that she wouldn't be safe in prison.  I think she has been disappeared.  If I were to guess when, it would be in parallel with the death of Gus in "Breaking Bad".  And while this is the obvious point for Saul to go with her -- I think he's too far in.  I think he'll stay.  As in "The Days of Wine and Roses", the push and pull doesn't allow both of the couple to be on the same page when they're in sufficiently deep.

By Omaha, we know that Gene is still unrepentant -- from watching the SG videos to SG graffiti to antagonising the mall security, he's still an angry wasp underneath.  But enough time may have passed that Kim has had to face justice and come through the other side.  It's always Jack Lemon's character who is arrested and undergoes the arduous process of trying to rebuild and he's the one who ultimately has to walk away.  Although in theory Jimmy is the Jack Lemon character, I actually think the ending might work better mapped onto Kim.

I still think Kim's final calling is to work with the elderly.  There was some kind of unexplored thought back in Season One about how the elderly could be treated and I wouldn't be surprised if the death or exploitation of a grandparent is at the heart of her breaking bad -- to be able to say to Betsy she lost everything, she'd have to have something to lose and so far we haven't got any sense of what young Kim had in her life besides a drunk mother and being shipped from home to home that would be a truly devastating loss.  She's not empty, she is -- in parallel with Mike and Gus -- vengeful.  However, she doesn't need to be a lawyer to look after old people.  Care homes have been a huge part of this series (even Hector's degrading treatment being made to attend a birthday party is a regular theme) and I think these are "sheep" that Kim could feel good about defending from "wolves".  If Kim manages to hit the reset button, I think that's how she ends up.

My guess is that we'll end with some permutation of the question about whether Jimmy can reform as Kim perhaps will manage -- or whether they will drag each other down again.

[Spartan Girl]

Excellent theory @gallimaufry. It would make better sense for Kim and Jimmy/Saul to have a huge falling out that pushes him completely into the decadent and gaudy lifestyle we see being dismantled in the opening.

[PeterPirate]

Sadly, I think the Viagra and women's clothing in the bathroom is the tell that she is no longer alive.  I find it unlikely that Saul would carry on with other women as long as he believed otherwise, even if she were disappeared.  I also find it hard to think of how Kim could go so far down the Bad Choice Road that they break up, since Saul is completely there in BB.   

But then again, there is the phone call that Francesca is going to wait for on Jimmy's birthday. 

The mind reels.  

[Crashcourse]

I don't think Kim gives a crap about the elderly or anyone else, for that matter; she's just bent on revenge.  

[gallimaufry]

24 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

I don't think Kim gives a crap about the elderly or anyone else, for that matter; she's just bent on revenge.  

Perhaps that is true in her current state but I think the elderly are close to her heart and if she's ever able to find redemption and fulfilment I can see that being the route.  She initiated Jimmy going into elder law and said it was something she thought about for herself.  The angriest and rawest we've seen her yet is when the Kettlemans were bilking old people.  Similarly, she was willing to scam for Mesa Verde before they tried to evict Everett Acker which was the last time she mentioned her background unprompted. And the first and only time to my knowledge that she's specifically mentioned her family was in 105 when she discussed her "scumbag cousins" stealing her grandmother's pain meds.  With an alcoholic mother and no reference to a father, it wouldn't be surprising if grandparents could be the only point of consistency in young Kim's life. 

[PeterPirate]

OK, I have an idea.  Suppose it is Jimmy's soft, use-the-carrot approach that results in Kim being disappeared.  (And I still think Lalo will be somehow involved in why she has to leave.)  Wracked with anguish about losing Kim forever, he vows never to use half measures again, and thus Full Measure Saul Goodman is launched.   

This is a really, really, really good theory.  

Except for that damn phone call.  

[Bannon]

We have seen characters' anger, whether it be from grief, and sometimes the thirst for revenge that accompanies that grief, or damaged pride, be the demise of many characters, and sometimes collateral people as well, throughout the BB/BCS universe. Even characters who survived, like Jesse, had their reckoning through this portal, like when his desire to avenge Brock's poisoning by Walt is what eventually leads to him being enslaved by the Aryan gangsters, which leads to Andrea's murder, as Jesse looks on in horror. 

I think Kim acting on her anger is going to lead to deadly or hideously violent, consequences for her, and/or some entirely innocent people. It happened with Walt, Jesse, Hank, even Skyler, Jimmy/Saul, Mike (of course), and Gus. I think it will happen with Kim as well.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Bannon

[Bannon]

Also, if the writers could could come up with an organic, meaningful way for Anna Gunn and Rhea Seehorn to have a scene together, that would be great. That is a big ask, however, and could easily have a really clunky, tacked-on, feeling.

[gallimaufry]

1 hour ago, Bannon said:

Also, if the writers could could come up with an organic, meaningful way for Anna Gunn and Rhea Seehorn to have a scene together, that would be great. That is a big ask, however, and could easily have a really clunky, tacked-on, feeling.

In some respects, I think there's a lot more leeway for this than for her to encounter Walt and Jesse since there's the whole period of time after "Ozymandias" where we know very little about what happened to Skylar.  

On the other hand, I can't imagine Kim having a lot of sympathy for Skylar who is hardly one of the kinds of clients she usually goes for. And Kim certainly wasn't in any of the legal proceedings with saw in "Granite State" and would have difficulty getting anywhere near any of it due to having been married to Saul.  Plus I wouldn't really want the show to undermine the ways in which Walt took care of his family with the lottery ticket and the money laundered through Gretchen and Elliot.  In many respects, I'd be more interested in seeing more of Marie's fate.

In terms of integrating the shows though, there is one scene in "Breaking Bad" in, I think early Season 4 where Walt, Skylar and Saul decide to purchase the car wash.  In the middle of it, Huell comes in to use the bathroom.  It plays as an odd little comedy moment but I do wonder whether they'll retcon that scene into something more significant, though I've no idea what -- Mike already had Walt bugged and it wasn't much use.

[Cinnabon]

23 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

I don't think Kim gives a crap about the elderly or anyone else, for that matter; she's just bent on revenge.  

I disagree. She cares a lot about defending the vulnerable, poor, and underserved who can’t afford pricey defense lawyers. The legal system is systematically unfair and she’s doing what she can to right that by providing the forgotten with good counsel. Despite her crazed revenge fantasies about Howard, I think she’s genuine about her concern for the “less than” in our society.

[Dessert]

I think Kim broke bad a long time ago. As complexly as Jimmy has been written in Better Call Saul, he has done terrible things from the very beginning. She has always been attracted to the sleazy, cruel side of him. Her obsession with destroying Howard is very ugly.

Part of me hopes Kim hooks up with Lalo in some way. He was very impressed with her and their interactions were electric. You could tell Lalo felt it. I like to envision Kim and Lalo running everything from some remote location. Of course, I doubt this will happen.

[Gobi]

Who will survive and what will be left of them?

While we know the fate of some of the BCS characters in the BB timeline (Gus and Mike, for example), there are major characters whose fate is unknown. Keeping in mind that I have 99% accuracy for predicting storylines, by which I mean that I am wrong 99% of the time, here are my speculations.

Howard - On the bright side, he has the best chance of coming out relatively unscathed. Given that he practices civil litigation and Saul criminal, there would be no reason for him to have appeared or be mentioned in a BB storyline. 

On the dark side, Kim and Jimmy are plotting to ruin him. Howard's (and his firm's) reputation is everything to him. Should it be destroyed, he may commit suicide (recall that he blamed himself for Chuck's suicide) in atonement. As this is too similar to Chuck's fate, I don't think this will happen. As an alternative, he may leave the practice of law (or be disbarred). I do think that whatever happens with Kim and Jimmy's plan will be a major catalyst in their relationship.

Lalo - One of two BCS characters named in BB. Saul's "Did Lalo send you?" can be interpreted several ways.

Lalo is dead, but Saul doesn't know that.

Lalo is dead, Saul knows it, but thinks Lalo may have sent someone after him before he died.

Lalo is in prison. Possible, but I think Gus would have moved heaven and earth to have Lalo killed in prison.

Lalo is in hiding outside of the US where Gus can't get to him. I think this is most likely. 

Nacho - The other character mentioned. Saul's "It wasn't me, it was Ignacio!" can also be interpreted different ways.

Nacho is dead and Saul feels safe in blaming him for whatever they were involved in (that Saul at least knew about, even if he didn't participate directly).

Nacho is alive, and Saul thinks either Nacho will cover for him, or at least Saul can buy time to escape.

Kim - She is the biggest "what happened?" Saul mentions his ex-wife in BB. Unlike Lalo and Nacho, he isn't fearing for his life when he does. He could be lying to deflect attention away from his remorse at whatever happened. That they broke up is, I think, most likely. It's hard to imagine her being ignored during BB if they were still together. Whatever happens with Howard, or Saul's increasing involvement with criminal activory, will cause her to end their relationship. But then what?

Saul/Gene - Will he end his days reliving his past and remain in hiding? What could bring him out of hiding? The most likely is a threat to Kim. With Gus dead, will Lalo feel safe to return to threaten Kim so as to get at Saul? Or will something else require Saul's involvement to help Kim?

We shall see.

[gallimaufry]

3 hours ago, Gobi said:

Who will survive and what will be left of them?

While we know the fate of some of the BCS characters in the BB timeline (Gus and Mike, for example), there are major characters whose fate is unknown. Keeping in mind that I have 99% accuracy for predicting storylines, by which I mean that I am wrong 99% of the time, here are my speculations.

Howard - On the bright side, he has the best chance of coming out relatively unscathed. Given that he practices civil litigation and Saul criminal, there would be no reason for him to have appeared or be mentioned in a BB storyline. 

On the dark side, Kim and Jimmy are plotting to ruin him. Howard's (and his firm's) reputation is everything to him. Should it be destroyed, he may commit suicide (recall that he blamed himself for Chuck's suicide) in atonement. As this is too similar to Chuck's fate, I don't think this will happen. As an alternative, he may leave the practice of law (or be disbarred). I do think that whatever happens with Kim and Jimmy's plan will be a major catalyst in their relationship.

Regrettably, I think Howard is the most likely of all the cast to die.  If he tries to push back even slightly against Saul and starts digging, there's a real risk he doesn't just discover Saul's business but he discovers Lalo's and that... is going to get messy fast.  We started with Jimmy negotiating with Tuco for the lives of the skater twins.  I wonder if we could see him negotiating with either Tuco or Lalo for the life of either Howard or Kim. 

If he survives, I think he'll do well -- work through his trauma with a therapist, perhaps go into solo practice and end up happy and successful still.  Right in the first episode, he said something to Jimmy along the lines of, "In our line of work, we can get so caught up in the idea of winning, that we forget to listen to our hearts."  Despite being really cheesy and cringey, I think it is actually going to prove to be a key insight for Kim and Jimmy and the reason Howard will be able to walk away -- if he lives.

3 hours ago, Gobi said:

Lalo - One of two BCS characters named in BB. Saul's "Did Lalo send you?" can be interpreted several ways.

Lalo is dead, but Saul doesn't know that.

Lalo is dead, Saul knows it, but thinks Lalo may have sent someone after him before he died.

Lalo is in prison. Possible, but I think Gus would have moved heaven and earth to have Lalo killed in prison.

Lalo is in hiding outside of the US where Gus can't get to him. I think this is most likely. 

In BB S4, Gus said to Hector that the family name would die with him and since, as we know, Hector has absolutely no poker face, I think we can take this on face value.  Of course, perhaps Lalo will fake his death a second time and this time will keep Hector in the dark but this seems a little too arch.  I can't see Lalo surviving and in fact I doubt he'll make it to the finale even.

3 hours ago, Gobi said:

Nacho - The other character mentioned. Saul's "It wasn't me, it was Ignacio!" can also be interpreted different ways.

Nacho is dead and Saul feels safe in blaming him for whatever they were involved in (that Saul at least knew about, even if he didn't participate directly).

Nacho is alive, and Saul thinks either Nacho will cover for him, or at least Saul can buy time to escape.

It's completely possible that at this point Jimmy knows Lalo is alive and knows about the assassination attempt but hasn't seen him since 509 - this would fit "it was Ignacio!" But it also means that Lalo doesn't make contact with Saul for another... how far away are we?  2-3 years?  Seems unlikely.

Nacho is tricky.  I feel he has earned redemption but that could be a noble sacrifice or it could mean prison - but I can't see the cartel turning a blind eye to him once he's in the system.  The key thing is that he needs to earn his father's respect which I think will be much more difficult unless she can find some way to atone.  But he can't become an informant because it would implicate Tuco and Gus.  If his father dies, I could see him heading out to try and do good on his own which would fit the "Samurai without a master" theme but would feel very cold.  Then again, I feel like this is a show about living and Nacho's death wouldn't really tell us very much.

3 hours ago, Gobi said:

Kim - She is the biggest "what happened?" Saul mentions his ex-wife in BB. Unlike Lalo and Nacho, he isn't fearing for his life when he does. He could be lying to deflect attention away from his remorse at whatever happened. That they broke up is, I think, most likely. It's hard to imagine her being ignored during BB if they were still together. Whatever happens with Howard, or Saul's increasing involvement with criminal activory, will cause her to end their relationship. But then what?

You know, it occurred to me what in a twisted way would be a terrible "good" fate for Kim: after Saul's house is gutted but Kim has somehow managed to walk away untouched, she runs into Kevin somewhere.  Kevin says he's sorry but he did try to tell her that she could do better than Jimmy.  He's got a nose for this kind of thing.  But he doesn't think any the less of her - she's not capable of that kind of thing.  I'm not sure how Kim would take that but being ignored, disregarded, discounted almost seems like her true idea of hell and I imagine would see her acting out in some kind of terrible fashion.  I can't see this happening though because either she'd be still married to Jimmy and therefore implicated or they'd be divorced she spousal privilege would no longer apply.

I do think we'll see them working towards redemption but it being ambiguous as to whether or how they'll get there.

I half-expect and even half-hope that they'll take advantage of the by now very considerable time difference between the end of BB (circa 2010 I think?) and today.  For any of these characters, if the true extent of their crimes were exposed, they'd be in prison for decades but it would be possible to do a time jump over 10-15 years of prison time and see the other side without it being too wildly far from the real world.

The trickier ones in some ways are Gus and Mike.  We know their fates but we don't know where they'll be left here and even how their deaths will be framed.  For Mike at least, there are a lot of unanswered questions, not the least of which are what happens to Stacey and Kayleigh?

[PeterPirate]

I for one will be sorely aggrieved if Kim and Jimmy succeed in bringing down Howard (and HHM).  

But then again, this is the BB-verse, and Jimmy has to become Full Measure Saul.  

[Gobi]

31 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I for one will be sorely aggrieved if Kim and Jimmy succeed in bringing down Howard (and HHM).  

But then again, this is the BB-verse, and Jimmy has to become Full Measure Saul.  

I think that what happens to Howard is going to be key. If Howard dies or is ruined as a result of their plan, I can see Kim having a “What have we done?” moment and deciding that she and Jimmy cannot stay together as they bring out the worst in each other. The same could happen if the plan fails.

[scenario]

37 minutes ago, Gobi said:

I think that what happens to Howard is going to be key. If Howard dies or is ruined as a result of their plan, I can see Kim having a “What have we done?” moment and deciding that she and Jimmy cannot stay together as they bring out the worst in each other. The same could happen if the plan fails.

Howard is an interesting character because absolutely anything can happen to him. He's not in breaking bad because there's no reason he has to be in BB. He could just be living his life the way he always had or he could be dead and his whole company destroyed. Or anything in between. There's no reason you'd know anything about it on BB. 

Choices about Kim is more limited. It wouldn't make any sense for her to be a significant part of Saul's life during BB. She is either dead, or in hiding, or working for the mob or in prison. Before the last few episodes, I would have said divorced and working somewhere far away but that looks less unlikely now.

I kind of like the idea of messing with people's heads. Edit a few episodes of Breaking Bad and put Kim in the background but do it in such a way that no matter what you do, you can't tell its her for sure. Put it on the A&E website and deny you did it. Drive people crazy. 

[sistermagpie]

45 minutes ago, Gobi said:

I think that what happens to Howard is going to be key. If Howard dies or is ruined as a result of their plan, I can see Kim having a “What have we done?” moment and deciding that she and Jimmy cannot stay together as they bring out the worst in each other. The same could happen if the plan fails.

Or Jimmy gets cold feet at the last minute, that makes things turn out horribly, and that's the final nail in the Jimmy coffin.

[Cinnabon]

6 hours ago, Gobi said:

Who will survive and what will be left of them?

While we know the fate of some of the BCS characters in the BB timeline (Gus and Mike, for example), there are major characters whose fate is unknown. Keeping in mind that I have 99% accuracy for predicting storylines, by which I mean that I am wrong 99% of the time, here are my speculations.

Howard - On the bright side, he has the best chance of coming out relatively unscathed. Given that he practices civil litigation and Saul criminal, there would be no reason for him to have appeared or be mentioned in a BB storyline. 

On the dark side, Kim and Jimmy are plotting to ruin him. Howard's (and his firm's) reputation is everything to him. Should it be destroyed, he may commit suicide (recall that he blamed himself for Chuck's suicide) in atonement. As this is too similar to Chuck's fate, I don't think this will happen. As an alternative, he may leave the practice of law (or be disbarred). I do think that whatever happens with Kim and Jimmy's plan will be a major catalyst in their relationship.

Lalo - One of two BCS characters named in BB. Saul's "Did Lalo send you?" can be interpreted several ways.

Lalo is dead, but Saul doesn't know that.

Lalo is dead, Saul knows it, but thinks Lalo may have sent someone after him before he died.

Lalo is in prison. Possible, but I think Gus would have moved heaven and earth to have Lalo killed in prison.

Lalo is in hiding outside of the US where Gus can't get to him. I think this is most likely. 

Nacho - The other character mentioned. Saul's "It wasn't me, it was Ignacio!" can also be interpreted different ways.

Nacho is dead and Saul feels safe in blaming him for whatever they were involved in (that Saul at least knew about, even if he didn't participate directly).

Nacho is alive, and Saul thinks either Nacho will cover for him, or at least Saul can buy time to escape.

Kim - She is the biggest "what happened?" Saul mentions his ex-wife in BB. Unlike Lalo and Nacho, he isn't fearing for his life when he does. He could be lying to deflect attention away from his remorse at whatever happened. That they broke up is, I think, most likely. It's hard to imagine her being ignored during BB if they were still together. Whatever happens with Howard, or Saul's increasing involvement with criminal activory, will cause her to end their relationship. But then what?

Saul/Gene - Will he end his days reliving his past and remain in hiding? What could bring him out of hiding? The most likely is a threat to Kim. With Gus dead, will Lalo feel safe to return to threaten Kim so as to get at Saul? Or will something else require Saul's involvement to help Kim?

We shall see.

The character of Kim hadn’t yet been conceived when they created Breaking Bad, so I don’t think her absence on that show means anything . The writers can find all kinds of creative ways to include her.

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

I for one will be sorely aggrieved if Kim and Jimmy succeed in bringing down Howard (and HHM).  

But then again, this is the BB-verse, and Jimmy has to become Full Measure Saul.  

Don’t worry - either way I think he’ll survive and continue his entitled, wealthy life. 

1 hour ago, Gobi said:

I think that what happens to Howard is going to be key. If Howard dies or is ruined as a result of their plan, I can see Kim having a “What have we done?” moment and deciding that she and Jimmy cannot stay together as they bring out the worst in each other. The same could happen if the plan fails.

Define “ruined” in this context. 

[scenario]

2 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

The character of Kim hadn’t yet been conceived when they created Breaking Bad, so I don’t think her absence on that show means anything . The writers can find all kinds of creative ways to include her.

If Kim was still Saul's wife and living with him, she probably would have shown up somewhere in BB. Anything else is fair game. 

[Cinnabon]

Just now, scenario said:

If Kim was still Saul's wife and living with him, she probably would have shown up somewhere in BB. Anything else is fair game. 

Probably. I agree with you.

[Adiba]

31 minutes ago, scenario said:

If Kim was still Saul's wife and living with him, she probably would have shown up somewhere in BB. Anything else is fair game. 

Yeah, it would really annoy me if they tried to make Kim still Saul’s wife going forward into the BB years, but who knows what the writers have come up with?

I hope it’s some crazy plot twist, like Kim is in hiding with Lalo on some Central/South American beach.

[Irlandesa]

7 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

The character of Kim hadn’t yet been conceived when they created Breaking Bad, so I don’t think her absence on that show means anything . The writers can find all kinds of creative ways to include her.

In theory, I agree. I don't think we really see much of Saul outside of the office so there's no reason we'd necessarily see Kim now that they do their scheming at home.

But I do think there's a meanness to BB Saul that doesn't exist in GCS Saul that I don't think would be there with Kim. And I don't think a Kim-less Gene makes any sense and that's why I don't think she's part of his BB-life.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Irlandesa

[Ellaria]

I have no idea of what is coming. I can’t even make semi-educated guesses. Having said that…

Much of current speculation is hanging on Saul’s mention of Nacho (Ignacio) and Lalo in S2E8 of BB when Walt and Jesse have him at gunpoint in the desert. That scene is approximately 3-4 years from where events currently are in BCS. I think it’s unlikely that both Nacho and Lalo are alive 3-4 years from the present based on the current state of things. However, if either or both are alive, then the story feels like it hasn’t progressed much.

Kim…sigh…whatever happens won’t be good. I don’t believe that she is in Saul’s life in BB. He seems to be a darker character than the current version. Something had to drive him there…something caused him to become the version of Saul that has golden toilets. It’s not happenstance. The explanation that I prefer right now - having seen only two episodes in this season - is that Kim betrays him. His love for her is the one thing that grounds him. Jimmy is nearly fully consumed by Saul in BB. The only hope is the stopper from the tequila bottle. 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Ellaria Sand

[SailorGirl]

just throwing this out there, because why not . . . 

Lalo gives Kim a choice -- become his lawyer or they kill Jimmy. She leaves Jimmy to become the full-time Salamanca cartel lawyer and save Jimmy's life. Jimmy moves into full-on Saul, shutting off Jimmy and compartmentalizing his feelings for Kim.

At some point between the end of BCS and when we're introduced to Saul in BB, there's some sort of incident where Lalo and others get killed, Kim among them . . . at least that's what everyone -- including now-Saul -- is led to believe. But in fact, Kim helps the feds bring down Lalo and goes into witness protection. Gus has Lalo killed in prison. 

Once Gus, Hector, Walt, and everyone else from BB connected somehow to the Salamancas are dead, Kim can leave witness protection. We know it looks like Saul is going to give up the Gene cover. Kim finds him before he makes himself public again, and they escape to a tropical paradise, living as Gisele and Viktor [whatever name Jimmy used, I can't remember] off the nursing home settlement money they finally received and stashed away.

Edited April 25, 2022 by SailorGirl
removed Jesse from the list of dead, because, well, he's not dead!

[carrps]

31 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

[whatever name Jimmy used, I can't remember] off the nursing home settlement money they finally received and stashed away.

Viktor.

[SailorGirl]

1 hour ago, carrps said:

Viktor.

fixed it, thanks!! 

[carrps]

De nada!

Edited April 26, 2022 by carrps

[Constantinople]

On 4/25/2022 at 10:35 AM, Ellaria Sand said:

Much of current speculation is hanging on Saul’s mention of Nacho (Ignacio) and Lalo in S2E8 of BB when Walt and Jesse have him at gunpoint in the desert. That scene is approximately 3-4 years from where events currently are in BCS. I think it’s unlikely that both Nacho and Lalo are alive 3-4 years from the present based on the current state of things. However, if either or both are alive, then the story feels like it hasn’t progressed much.

In addition to being held at gunpoint, Saul was also forced to kneel in front of an open grave. So I don't I put much stock in what verb tense Saul used in that situation. It wasn't exactly an ordinary business meeting in an office.

For that matter, Saul used both the past tense to reference Nacho ("It was Ignacio!"), but also used the current tense ("He's the one!"). So who knows what Lalo's condition is at the time Saul said "Lalo didn't send you? No Lalo?" and what Saul knows about it.

That said, I tend to think Lalo will die given that, as of BCS Season 6 Episode 3, Gus thinks Lalo's is alive, but thinks Lalo is dead in Season 4 BB when Gus taunts Hector as the last of the Salamancas.

But if we get a BB sequel titled Lalo that credibly explains what Lalo was doing in the BB timeline before Gus took out the cartel (it seems impossible to think of a credible explanation, but if anyone can it's the BCS/BB wriers) and afterwards (Lalo was too busy picking up the pieces before he could take revenge against Gus, then heard about what happened to Gus), I may not object.

[PeterPirate]

3 hours ago, Constantinople said:

BCS Season 6 Episode 3, Gus thinks Lalo's is alive, but thinks Lalo is dead in Season 4 BB when Gus taunts Hector as the last of the Salamancas.  

That's a good point.  Now that I think about it, it will cheapen Hector's demise if Lalo survives into the BB timeline.  

And now that I think about it some more, BCS has really enhanced the power of Hector's final scene in BB.  Gotta give props to Mark Margolis for giving us a truly reprehensible, evil character.  

 

3 hours ago, Constantinople said:

In addition to being held at gunpoint, Saul was also forced to kneel in front of an open grave. So I don't I put much stock in what verb tense Saul used in that situation. It wasn't exactly an ordinary business meeting in an office.  

For that matter, Saul used both the past tense to reference Nacho ("It was Ignacio!"), but also used the current tense ("He's the one!"). So who knows what Lalo's condition is at the time Saul said "Lalo didn't send you? No Lalo?" and what Saul knows about it.   

That fake American Greed video was posted to YouTube, and one of the commenters pointed out that they used "is" instead of "was" when describing Kim Wexler--"Kim Wexler is a bright and ambitious young woman"--thereby indicating she was (is) alive.  But they also use "is" when talking about Chuck, so there goes that theory.  

Man, this week I've been combing through the videos like they were the Zapruder film.  

Edited May 1, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Constantinople]

Someone speculated in the Hit and Run (BCS S6E4) episode thread that Kim is in jail during Breaking Bad. I almost responded that if so, it seems odd that it was never mentioned, but then I realized that's true of anything that happens to Kim: alive but in jail during BB, alive and free, or dead.

So I'll just wait for whatever explanation the writers give in upcoming episodes. But now that we know that Mike's had men following Kim, that Mike told her that Lalo might still be alive, and Mike said he thinks Kim is made of sterner stuff than Jimmy, I think a good explanation for Kim's BB absence would explain why neither Jimmy/Saul nor Mike mentioned Kim during BB.

That said, I have no idea what will happen to Kim. For all I know she's somehow behind Jeff, the taxi driver who goaded "Gene" into saying "Better Call Saul".

[Ed-]

11 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Someone speculated in the Hit and Run (BCS S6E4) episode thread that Kim is in jail during Breaking Bad. I almost responded that if so, it seems odd that it was never mentioned, but then I realized that's true of anything that happens to Kim: alive but in jail during BB, alive and free, or dead.

Kim seemed to be scared to death of Lalo during Hit and Run. Kim may decide to get a gun for protection. And then... Howard might decide to sneak in during the most inopportune time, to talk to her. Kim might shoot Howard by accident, mistaking him for Lalo (who might actually be also on his way). In this case, I can see her breaking down and ignoring Jimmy's pleas to let Mike or someone take care of it, and refusing the services of the Disappearer. So she might decide to turn herself in, but I think she would not "rat" anyone out, and Mike might actually let her go to jail. In a variation of this scenario, I can even see her shooting Lalo, with Mike watching in awe.

In another scenario, Howard discovers the truth about Jimmy's connections to the cartel (or something else big). In this case, I can totally see a confrontation where Kim takes the blame and demeans Jimmy to save him, possibly calling him "Slippin' Jimmy". Coming from Kim, this could conceivably complete Jimmy's transformation into Saul.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Ed-

[qtpye]

Fascinating theory.

The video says that Kim using the stick with the Kettlemens was her Heisenberg moment. 
Walter uses his family to justify his actions and Kim uses “helping the little guy” to justify her decisions.

In a lot of the plotting Jimmy takes most of us he risk.

The show took time for us to hear Kim’s client’s story of how a rich kid betrayed him into taking part of a robbery by letting him drive his fancy car.

This will be similar to how Kim will betray Jimmy in the future, causing Jimmy to fully turn into Saul.

Kim is a wolf and Jimmy is a sheep.

Again, interesting theory.

[Ed-]

9 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Fascinating theory.

Yeah! I feel there might be a fundamental split coming with the two possibly arguing who is the "real lawyer", maybe Kim dismissing the whole Saul thing as a joke, while believing her cause is the real one. The wolf factor of Kim is sufficiently strong that I don't want to dismiss even the theory that Kim may join Lalo and become a big time cartel lawyer, although I would say this is quite further down my list of possibilities. (I am not seeing how it connects to her pro bono work.)

Maybe Kim has been indeed attracted to Jimmy solely because Jimmy has so far been the "little guy" treated unfairly by the world. If Jimmy is now effectively a Saul-wolf (in reality more like a "functional sheep"), and if they succeed in destroying Howard's life in one way or another, the anticlimatic "what now?" question might cause them to de facto end their relationship. If they are very successful with a huge payday, we already know what Saul wants to spend that on, which is very likely not what Kim wants. If we go by her "more", maybe after Howard is gone (ousted?) she buys HHM outright and renames it?

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Whatever her planned fate, I want it to be the final scene...B/W...Saul at his wit's end...switch to color (Hello, OZ)!  We see Kim has entered the room with a classic enigmatic/Mona Lisa visage.  Fade to black.

It's very difficult for me to see how KW makes it out alive.  I keep going back to Gilligan's quote months ago that he told Rhea what Kim's fate was going to be.  It seems odd to me that he would say that if Kim was to survive BCS.  

[Gobi]

6 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

It's very difficult for me to see how KW makes it out alive.  I keep going back to Gilligan's quote months ago that he told Rhea what Kim's fate was going to be.  It seems odd to me that he would say that if Kim was to survive BCS.  

I’m not so sure. If, for example, her fate was to betray and abandon Jimmy, it would help Rhea to know that so her performance could lead up to that, rather than seeming to be at random.

[PeterPirate]

Good theory.  I have been hung up on the phone call Francesca is supposed to answer on Saul's birthday, which I am certain is from Kim.  Until now I have been thinking Kim gets disappeared and is advised by The Disappearer to call Saul only on his birthday.  But now I wonder if Kim leaves Saul and calls only on his birthday as her birthday present to him.  

I like this new idea because it fits all the known facts.  It explains why Saul would live a life of debauchery while still having some contact with Kim.  It paints Saul (or really, Jimmy) as a sheep and Kim as a wolf. 

If this theory is correct, I can't see Kim meeting up with Gene.  Then again, these two do not deserve a happy ending.   

It also makes sense that Gilligan would inform Rhea Seehorn about her character's future.  Instead of saving herself she is going to become the equivalent to Heisenberg.  I watched one video wherein Patrick Fabian revealed that during some sort of meeting of the cast and crew, he said that maybe Howard could help save Kim, to which Rhea Seehorn said something like "I save me".  

Edited May 6, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Constantinople]

Did the cartel find out about Gus's super lab in Breaking Bad?

They knew about Guy's blue meth at some point. They hijacked a Los Pollos truck, found the blue meth in a container, gave it to some meth dealer and left a message on the container lid. Mike found the lid when he and Jessie recovered the blue meth from the guy who yelled "Tucker!".

The cartel knows they didn't make the blue meth. I can't remember if the cartel knows about its purity, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had some idea.

So they must figure Gus is producing meth somehow.

But maybe whatever the cartel learns only occurs in BB.

But if BCS is set in 2004 as of S6E5 and BB starts in 2008, that's a long time to have an unproductive hole in the ground

[SunnyBeBe]

With all the analysis opinions I’ve been seeing, I’m now wondering if Kim is planning to set up Jimmy and not just Howard.  Could she still harbor resentment from his previous deeds?  Or, am I reading too much into this?  

[MissScarlett]

I wonder if Kim has a breaking point in all of this? She is "Breaking Bad" right now but with Mike telling her that she and Jimmy are being tailed by his men because Lalo is actually alive, I don't know. That whole scene seemed eerie to me. Foreshadowing Kim's eventual return from the side of the Wicked or ... she'll go all in and lose her life to the Salamanca tribe.

What do you all think?

[Razzberry]

When Kim did the hand-guns gesture last season, I groaned inwardly because it was pure hubris.  In Greek tragedy it's a given that hubris will cause the Greek goddess Nemesis to inflict retribution for evil deeds.  Kim's going down, and it should be disturbing but exciting to watch.