S04.E05: Craig Of All Trades, Master Of None

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, sadie said:

But this isn't a heart attack and people have tried to help her. I've dealt with addiction and you can't drag someone into recovery. She went to rehab and kept using. That's not on Thomas (and I loathe Thomas). Kathryn's actions are Addict behavior 101. She wants what she wants when she wants it and anyone who doesn't give her a free pass is a "betrayer". If her kids mean that much  to her, then get sober and do the hard work. She has psychological issues for sure as the scene with Jennifer aptly displayed. I have no sympathy for her, she's had acess to treatment most addicts could never afford and she just keeps using. PEOPLE HAVE TRIED TO HELP HER- SHE DOESNT WANT IT. Thomas is a tool but I can't blame him in any way for her drug issues.

Craig-I posted the interview on his thread-has said he has tried to help Kathyrn by relaying experiences he had with an organization that works with parents who have been separated from the children.  I think of all the cast Craig has his heart in trying to help Kathryn, and at the same time remain amicable with Thomas.  Kathryn might want to take a page from Craig's playbook, he certainly reached a point in his life where partying wasn't working for him.  He seems to have filled the partying hours with everything from writing a 50 page thesis and volunteering and researching it, to gardening, indoor seed starting, carpentry, cat grooming, working on a reality show, sewing and now pickling his harvest. 

Kathryn wants hand outs not a hand in getting back on her feet.  The idea she views anyone with issues that surpass hers as competition is pretty sad.  Don't know if there is enough therapy on this planet to get her out of that mindset. 

[Mojoker]

1 hour ago, sadie said:

But this isn't a heart attack and people have tried to help her. I've dealt with addiction and you can't drag someone into recovery. She went to rehab and kept using. That's not on Thomas (and I loathe Thomas). Kathryn's actions are Addict behavior 101. She wants what she wants when she wants it and anyone who doesn't give her a free pass is a "betrayer". If her kids mean that much  to her, then get sober and do the hard work. She has psychological issues for sure as the scene with Jennifer aptly displayed. I have no sympathy for her, she's had acess to treatment most addicts could never afford and she just keeps using. PEOPLE HAVE TRIED TO HELP HER- SHE DOESNT WANT IT. Thomas is a tool but I can't blame him in any way for her drug issues.

Yes, people are always quick to give Thomas a pass for just about anything, while Kathryn can be crucified for a look or a word.  People are actually dragged into recovery all the time. We took my nephew to rehab in handcuffs, completely against his will.  He completed the program and he never used again. My point with the heart attack comment was that you wouldn't expect someone going through that to fix himself.  He would need a team of trained professionals to help him through the situation, and a dedicated support system in place to aid in recovery. Yet I keep seeing people suggesting, or just saying, that this is all on Kathryn and that she needs to fix herself. Everyone keeps insisting that Kathryn is chemically altered, yet somehow still expect a chemically altered person to make good decisions for herself. It's an impossibility.

[sadie]

12 minutes ago, Mojoker said:

Yes, people are always quick to give Thomas a pass for just about anything, while Kathryn can be crucified for a look or a word.  People are actually dragged into recovery all the time. We took my nephew to rehab in handcuffs, completely against his will.  He completed the program and he never used again. My point with the heart attack comment was that you wouldn't expect someone going through that to fix himself.  He would need a team of trained professionals to help him through the situation, and a dedicated support system in place to aid in recovery. Yet I keep seeing people suggesting, or just saying, that this is all on Kathryn and that she needs to fix herself. Everyone keeps insisting that Kathryn is chemically altered, yet somehow still expect a chemically altered person to make good decisions for herself. It's an impossibility.

Sorry Mojoker, wasn't attacking your point. I was trying to express (badly) was that it appears Kathryn has had access to help, she went to rehab and it still didn't stick. At some point she has to make the choice and move forward. Her family sent her to rehab so I assume they want her to be clean and are willing to help. But when she keeps failing her drug screens speak to me of someone who isn't ready to be clean despite her words.

[AttackTurtle]

I don't see people giving Thomas a pass.   Thomas is a tool, but Thomas has also shown some self awareness.  He does accept responsibility for his actions; whereas Kathryn not so much.  She acknowledged that she f-ed up by using drugs and losing her kids, but look at her actions since then.

I think Kathryn has a number of people who would be willing to help her get help.  She doesn't appear to want the kind of help she needs.  

I guess I just don't understand why people defending Kathryn feel the need to call out Thomas for supposedly being given a pass by those critiquing Kathryn.  The criticism of Kathryn has been earned by Kathryn and right now it's her behavior that is jeopardizing the long term health of her children.

[slowpoked]

1 hour ago, Mojoker said:

Yes, people are always quick to give Thomas a pass for just about anything, while Kathryn can be crucified for a look or a word.  People are actually dragged into recovery all the time. We took my nephew to rehab in handcuffs, completely against his will.  He completed the program and he never used again. My point with the heart attack comment was that you wouldn't expect someone going through that to fix himself.  He would need a team of trained professionals to help him through the situation, and a dedicated support system in place to aid in recovery. Yet I keep seeing people suggesting, or just saying, that this is all on Kathryn and that she needs to fix herself. Everyone keeps insisting that Kathryn is chemically altered, yet somehow still expect a chemically altered person to make good decisions for herself. It's an impossibility.

No one is giving a pass on Thomas. Well, Landon does, but that's another point.  But on Thomas' side, he has done what is required of him to do. Thomas is undergoing routine drug tests just like Kathryn - he has passed them all so far. He shows up for court dates. He makes sure the kids are well taken care of, whether it's him or the nanny. I think what everyone is pointing out is that Kathryn has had her chances, chances that most addicts don't get because she has a better stature in life. She went to a fancy rehab place that someone else paid for. No one expected her to do this all by herself - she had people helping her, family and friends. Heck, even Thomas in the most basic form of help tried. No one left her in the ditch and told her to go fix all this by herself.

But there comes a point where Kathryn herself needs to realize upon herself that if she will get better, she will have to make a conscious choice to choose that path for herself. No one is going to make that choice for her. She blames everyone but herself for her failures. She completed the program in a fancy rehab place but went back to using again. She lost custody of her children but  that still didn't stop her from doing drugs. I always hear that addicts hit some form of rock bottom before a light bulb turns on. Someone I know said his rock bottom was pawning his wedding ring so he could buy a few more hits. I know everyone's rock bottom is different, but I would think the finality of losing your children and ending up in jail would be Kathryn's. Apparently not.

And like most said, I don't think it's just being an addict that's "altering" Kathryn's state of mind. There is a personality disorder there. And whether Kathryn gets healed of her addiction or not, that disorder is there. 

In other (sad) news, I read in another board that the nurse or doctor's assistant who talked to Shep when he was in the doctor's office has passed away from brain aneurysm.

Edited May 3, 2017 by slowpoked

[Suck It Trebek]

12 hours ago, breezy424 said:

It seems that many think Cam will be having a baby soon.  I have my doubts.  She just doesn't seem to want it.  It may end her marriage.  Cam isn't as squeaky as the Lily Pulitzer clothes seem to imply.

She announced that they are expecting a baby girl over on Instagram. Not sure how to link.

[LIMOM]

24 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

No one is giving a pass on Thomas. Well, Landon does, but that's another point.  But on Thomas' side, he has done what is required of him to do. Thomas is undergoing routine drug tests just like Kathryn - he has passed them all so far. He shows up for court dates. He makes sure the kids are well taken care of, whether it's him or the nanny. I think what everyone is pointing out is that Kathryn has had her chances, chances that most addicts don't get because she has a better stature in life. She went to a fancy rehab place that someone else paid for. No one expected her to do this all by herself - she had people helping her, family and friends. Heck, even Thomas in the most basic form of help tried. No one left her in the ditch and told her to go fix all this by herself.

But there comes a point where Kathryn herself needs to realize upon herself that if she will get better, she will have to make a conscious choice to choose that path for herself. No one is going to make that choice for her. She blames everyone but herself for her failures. She completed the program in a fancy rehab place but went back to using again. She lost custody of her children but  that still didn't stop her from doing drugs. I always hear that addicts hit some form of rock bottom before a light bulb turns on. Someone I know said his rock bottom was pawning his wedding ring so he could buy a few more hits. I know everyone's rock bottom is different, but I would think the finality of losing your children and ending up in jail would be Kathryn's. Apparently not.

And like most said, I don't think it's just being an addict that's "altering" Kathryn's state of mind. There is a personality disorder there. And whether Kathryn gets healed of her addiction or not, that disorder is there. 

In other (sad) news, I read in another board that the nurse or doctor's assistant who talked to Shep when he was in the doctor's office has passed away from brain aneurysm.

Wow, she was so young. I was thinking here is dumbo meeting a quality woman and being completely blind to the opportunity.

Back to Kathryn's situation, I just think that she can't help feeling betrayed by Thomas. Why would he think that procreating with an addict was a good idea(I am referring especially to Saint), this was such a foolish decision on his part.

I also think that he pushes her buttons,  which is a problem as she has some serious psychological issues plus the fact  that he has so much more life experience than her. They are not on an even playing field.

yes, she is an addict but he is no innocent in that situation, imo.

[MerryMary]

13 hours ago, Jextella said:

She's really messed up.  That scene with Jennifer was crazy bad.  Kathryn needs tons more therapy - not just for drugs but in general.

I don't even know if therapy would help.  The way she had no empathy for Jennifer sent chills down my spine.  

Edited May 3, 2017 by MerryMary

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, Mojoker said:

Yes, people are always quick to give Thomas a pass for just about anything, while Kathryn can be crucified for a look or a word.  People are actually dragged into recovery all the time. We took my nephew to rehab in handcuffs, completely against his will.  He completed the program and he never used again. My point with the heart attack comment was that you wouldn't expect someone going through that to fix himself.  He would need a team of trained professionals to help him through the situation, and a dedicated support system in place to aid in recovery. Yet I keep seeing people suggesting, or just saying, that this is all on Kathryn and that she needs to fix herself. Everyone keeps insisting that Kathryn is chemically altered, yet somehow still expect a chemically altered person to make good decisions for herself. It's an impossibility.

Kathryn's substance abuse issue isn't about Thomas.  Thomas gets a pass and not much of one, for being a responsible father and taking care of his children full time because their mother is not able to, taking responsibility isn't all that laudible.  Read some of Thomas' social media comments people write horrible things next to the photos of their babies about him. Or comments on here, it is far from a pass.  Kathryn has struggled and during her "heart attack" her family stepped in and secured her treatment, presumably with a team of professionals and the tools to help herself once she re-entered her world.   I can not speak for anyone else but I do believe it is pretty well stablished in the addiction treatment community that a person has to want to be sober.  That is what I get from the comments about Kathryn helping herself, she has to first want it.  

I always remember Robert Downey, Jr. , standing before the judge after yet another drug violation and telling the judge, "It's like I have a shotgun in my mouth, my finger on the trigger and I like the taste of gunmetal."  There had been an abundance of support from the Hollywood community wanting to help him and it just didn't work. His trained professionals ended up being prison guards at Corcoran State Prison.  Now we have a Kathryn who has become part of the justice system risking her freedom.  I guess it would mean she be incarcerated so someone else makes her decisions for her?  I think Kathryn's issues are so far beyond what her co-workers and Thomas can handle.  I don't know if they are enabling or just being supportive in agreeing to film with her at this point. 

As sad a situation as Kathryn has become, the more important issue is during her times of inability her children are being cared for by their father and not in foster care.   

[scrb]

Kathryn can't be allowed to be around her kids.  She's demonstrated that she can't be trusted.

Thomas provides for the kids.  If he was irresponsible as well, the kids would have a sad fate, probably put into foster home or something.

There's a world of difference between Kathryn and Thomas when it comes to suitability as parent and the welfare of the kids.

A big wide world of difference.

[DrSparkles]

17 hours ago, Mountainair said:

So, Sheps dad had a heart attack at the same age Shep is now and he thinks his current lifestyle is ok? I mean, obviously not since he's seeing a dr. (Who was kind of hot in an older man sort of way) but he's been living in denial for far too long! I used to drink with the best of them and still do enjoy a few drinks on most nights but my nights of 12 or more (and you know Shep is drinking way more than 12 drinks a night) at a time were over in my twenties. I'm a few years younger than Shep and was worried about my own drinking habits and got checked up at the dr but my 3 or 4 beers every few nights is no where near his level! I don't know how he functions. I guess it's easier when you don't have to pull a 9-5 or take care of kids but holy hell. I wonder how his lab work looked?

Lort knows, I did my share of drinking in my 20s (until I turned to... non-liquid substances ;) ). So, while I was getting ready, a drink or two. Let's say the night started ~10.30 & ended ~4. I could put away ~drink/hour and some shots. LOTS of water & constant dancing too though. Not just standing around drinking. And we went out 4-5x a week, so I can't side-eye Shep too hard (even though he is 30'something).

Also, in terms of who Shep wants & why: he wants WHO he can't have. E.g., Cameron, and now new girl. He just wants to compete for her attn. bc Austin has it. Bc he's bored. Bc he doesn't have anything else to do! IMO.

[eurekagirl mOo]

On 5/2/2017 at 8:14 AM, Major Bigtime said:

Thomas talking to himself while drinking, thinking about calling Landon, and "a day date" had me cracking up. He really is a funny guy when he's basically sober.

Kathryn can disappear any minute now, please Bravo. That lunch was hard to watch, she is a heartless, cruel, self-centered bitch. Addicts are that way anyway, but I think it's just her basic personality to yell "me me me me" all the time. If you click on another link in the article link above, Jennifer is suing Kathryn for saying Thomas is the baby's father. I am sure Lee isn't happy about it either, so I hope they totally destory what's left of that creature.

Craig said how much he loved sewing when he took Home Ec in high school. 

Craig buys a sewing machine which has the embroidery attachments.

Craig wants to start a fashion line.

 

Craig is gay.

Seriously? What year do you live in? If a little girl plays with a truck is she a lesbian? I know a TON of men who sew and they are not gay! (Not that there's anything wrong with that) I owned a fabric store and men sew! 

[Mojoker]

40 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Kathryn's substance abuse issue isn't about Thomas.  Thomas gets a pass and not much of one, for being a responsible father and taking care of his children full time because their mother is not able to, taking responsibility isn't all that laudible.  Read some of Thomas' social media comments people write horrible things next to the photos of their babies about him. Or comments on here, it is far from a pass.  Kathryn has struggled and during her "heart attack" her family stepped in and secured her treatment, presumably with a team of professionals and the tools to help herself once she re-entered her world.   I can not speak for anyone else but I do believe it is pretty well stablished in the addiction treatment community that a person has to want to be sober.  That is what I get from the comments about Kathryn helping herself, she has to first want it.  

I always remember Robert Downey, Jr. , standing before the judge after yet another drug violation and telling the judge, "It's like I have a shotgun in my mouth, my finger on the trigger and I like the taste of gunmetal."  There had been an abundance of support from the Hollywood community wanting to help him and it just didn't work. His trained professionals ended up being prison guards at Corcoran State Prison.  Now we have a Kathryn who has become part of the justice system risking her freedom.  I guess it would mean she be incarcerated so someone else makes her decisions for her?  I think Kathryn's issues are so far beyond what her co-workers and Thomas can handle.  I don't know if they are enabling or just being supportive in agreeing to film with her at this point. 

As sad a situation as Kathryn has become, the more important issue is during her times of inability her children are being cared for by their father and not in foster care.   

Thomas thew money at the problem. That's it. Why is he being applauded for making sure his own children don't wind up in foster care? They're his kids. What the fuck else is he supposed to be doing? He doesn't deserve a medal for this. I'm sorry you didn't understand my mention of a heart attack, but I've explained it as best I can. I don't know what's established in the "addiction treatment community" (I didn't even know there was such a thing) but, as I stated previously, in my personal experience, someone can definitely be helped despite their wishes to the contrary. Not only have I lived through that very experience in my own family, but I've seen it a dozen times on Dr. Phil.

1 hour ago, slowpoked said:

No one is giving a pass on Thomas.

Then we're reading different comment boards.

[slowpoked]

1 hour ago, LIMOM said:

Wow, she was so young. I was thinking here is dumbo meeting a quality woman and being completely blind to the opportunity.

When I first saw that scene, I kept waiting for the inevitable "Before you go, can I have your number so I can call you after my doctor's appointment?"

I really can't with his new show. I don't think I can muster enough energy to watch an hour worth of Shep saying "I'm very picky...this is my standard...I'm looking for this type of girl...I'm not the village bicycle" then being shown hooking up with the first person who raises her skirt in front of him in a really nasty dive bar on the corner of nowhere.

EDIT: Never mind. I've posted previously all my thoughts about the topic.

Edited May 3, 2017 by slowpoked

[Major Bigtime]

5 hours ago, slowpoked said:

In other (sad) news, I read in another board that the nurse or doctor's assistant who talked to Shep when he was in the doctor's office has passed away from brain aneurysm.

Do you have a link for this? I cannot find anyone named Tara who works for Dr. Maguire listed online as passing away.

Edited to add it was confirmed on Facebook by a friend of hers.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Major Bigtime

[Mojoker]

17 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Craig did take the bar exam so he did finally get his degree.  Did he pass?  Don't know.  His hobbies were all about storyline because he was studying for the bar and finishing up law school.

Yes, he passed on the first try. In South Carolina, only about 70% of people taking the bar pass on the first try.  Obviously Craig is no airhead. I hope the smae people who've been giving him such a hard time on the show about this are just as quick to give credit where it's due.

[Major Bigtime]

19 minutes ago, Mojoker said:

Yes, he passed on the first try. In South Carolina, only about 70% of people taking the bar pass on the first try.  Obviously Craig is no airhead. I hope the smae people who've been giving him such a hard time on the show about this are just as quick to give credit where it's due.

No, this was his second try. It was discussed last season at the reunion.

[MissMel]

How was this his second try?  I thought he said his first application was ineligible and he lost that money but knew he would and it was his own fault.  Did I miss something?

[slowpoked]

11 minutes ago, Major Bigtime said:

No, this was his second try. It was discussed last season at the reunion.

 

3 minutes ago, MissMel said:

How was this his second try?  I thought he said his first application was ineligible and he lost that money but knew he would and it was his own fault.  Did I miss something?

I'm surprised too. I thought he wasn't even eligible to sit for the exam in the first place?

[Natalie68]

On 5/2/2017 at 10:29 AM, Lizzing said:

How many people stood up Whitney at the bar with Thomas?  Those 2 towers of seafood were enough for at least 4 people.  I have to say I was shocked at the practical side by side of Thomas today and the flashback to 4 years ago in that segment.  Dude has AGED in 4 years, and Shep should take heed.

I don't get Bravo's strategy here.  They're trying to make this Shep/Austen/Chelsea triangle a thing in the episodes, but have already announced Shep's new 'search for love' show.  It's like Bravo is conceding that the love triangle is entirely a put on halfway through the season.  I mean, yeah, we knew it was fake, but Bravo isn't supposed to pop the bubble of illusion during the run of the season.

For ME, the most boring part of the show.  That is the time I go get my snacks.  If Shep actually drinks that much daily I find that super gross.  If he drank 1/2 that much it is gross.  Hopefully he gets that sorted out before he ends up with some sort of brain damage.  

[zoeysmom]

Craig said at the Reunion he wasn't able to sit for the bar exam because he had not finished his thesis.  I posted a link on Craig's thread today and he goes into more detail.  Apparently between the time he "graduated" law school in 2014 and August of 2016 the ownership of the law school he attended changed hands and it made it difficult for him to complete thesis.  So two years later in August 2016, they allowed him to write his thesis and he finished it in December, making him eligible to sit for the bar for the first time. 

Edited May 3, 2017 by zoeysmom

[TheFinalRose]

Quote

In other (sad) news, I read in another board that the nurse or doctor's assistant who talked to Shep when he was in the doctor's office has passed away from brain aneurysm.

This is terrible news. I was going to post yesterday that, in addition to all that hard living having an affect on one's heart health, one of the dangers down the line of smoking (which Shep admitted to) is cerebral hemorrhage, but then I didn't, cause you know, Debbie Downer and all. So sad that that poor girl was the victim, she looked awfully young. 

[Natalie68]

20 hours ago, Mojoker said:

That's the problem -- people are somehow expecting her to get herself better. If she was having a heart attack, would folks be walking past her saying, "You really should get yourself better"?  She needs help and support, not stress and shaming.  The fact that Thomas can throw money at the situation and hire other people to hug his children doesn't make him a better parent, it just makes him a slightly less bad parent.

No they would not walk past.  They would get the person help.  If after the help that heart attack victim still ate horrible food, didn't exercise, smoked, drank, etc their recovery is on them.  She went to rehab now its on her to clean up her life.  Sobriety and responsible living can only be attained by ones own efforts.  Perhaps after she grows up a bit, gets on the proper mood stabilizing drugs (assuming there is mental illness which I would say there is), gets a job and has a stable life she can get back with her kids.  He may not be a ton better but at least with him the kids are safe because of the nanny.  What she doesn't need is this show.

[Mojoker]

1 hour ago, Major Bigtime said:

No, this was his second try. It was discussed last season at the reunion.

No, this was his first try. He wasn't eligible to take it before.  http://people.com/tv/southern-charm-craig-conover-finally-passes-bar-exam/

[Major Bigtime]

46 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Craig said at the Reunion he wasn't able to sit for the bar exam because he had not finished his thesis.  I posted a link on Craig's thread today and he goes into more detail.  Apparently between the time he "graduated" law school in 2014 and August of 2016 the ownership of the law school he attended changed hands and it made it difficult for him to complete thesis.  So two years later in August 2016, they allowed him to write his thesis and he finished it in December, making him eligible to sit for the bar for the first time. 

Thank you for the clarification, I thought he'd already taken it once.

[Mojoker]

5 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

No they would not walk past.  They would get the person help.  If after the help that heart attack victim still ate horrible food, didn't exercise, smoked, drank, etc their recovery is on them.  She went to rehab now its on her to clean up her life.  Sobriety and responsible living can only be attained by ones own efforts.  Perhaps after she grows up a bit, gets on the proper mood stabilizing drugs (assuming there is mental illness which I would say there is), gets a job and has a stable life she can get back with her kids.  He may not be a ton better but at least with him the kids are safe because of the nanny.  What she doesn't need is this show.

That's kind of like saying, "I called 911 for you, so, if you can't get on from there without education and support, fuck you."  And I love all the folks on the internet diagnosing Kathryn based on what amounts to minutes worth of highly edited television. As for the show, everyone wants Kathryn to "get a JOB", completely forgetting that she actually has a job.  Frankly, there's no other job she's qualified for at the moment that would pay much more than minimum wage, so she's kind of between a rock and a hard place. If she stays on the show, it may sabotage her recovery; if she leaves the show, she may never get another job and be deemed an inappropriate parent because of it. People give her a hard time, and maybe she deserves it, but I don't see many people actually giving a lot of thought to the reality (as opposed to reality TV) of what she's been through and what she's going through. 

[slowpoked]

21 minutes ago, TheFinalRose said:

This is terrible news. I was going to post yesterday that, in addition to all that hard living having an affect on one's heart health, one of the dangers down the line of smoking (which Shep admitted to) is cerebral hemorrhage, but then I didn't, cause you know, Debbie Downer and all. So sad that that poor girl was the victim, she looked awfully young. 

Shep has the hat trick of vices - smoking, drugs and alcohol. He can laugh it off now but if he has family history of heart attacks and/or strokes, he really has to take this thing seriously. I don't know if the health scare is just another storyline for him this season, but whether it is or not, someone has to knock some sense into him for real.

But it looks like he isn't slowing down considering his new show enables him to enjoy such hat trick of vices, and at an even worse pace.

[AttackTurtle]

9 minutes ago, Mojoker said:

That's kind of like saying, "I called 911 for you, so, if you can't get on from there without education and support, fuck you."  And I love all the folks on the internet diagnosing Kathryn based on what amounts to minutes worth of highly edited television. As for the show, everyone wants Kathryn to "get a JOB", completely forgetting that she actually has a job.  Frankly, there's no other job she's qualified for at the moment that would pay much more than minimum wage, so she's kind of between a rock and a hard place. If she stays on the show, it may sabotage her recovery; if she leaves the show, she may never get another job and be deemed an inappropriate parent because of it. People give her a hard time, and maybe she deserves it, but I don't see many people actually giving a lot of thought to the reality (as opposed to reality TV) of what she's been through and what she's going through. 

People aren't just diagnosing Kathryn based on what they see on t.v., they're basing it on Court records which have been made public in addition to the information which she herself has put forth on the show.

i really hope she has some underlying mental health issue; otherwise her behavior at her lunch with Jen Snowden honestly was unforgivable.

Im embarrassed to admit that I follow this show closely as well as this board and I simply fail to see posts giving Thomas a pass.

Kathryn has family connections.  She's a beautiful girl.  Southern Charm films for 13 weeks.  Go to rehab, go to school or get a job.  

[Natalie68]

16 minutes ago, Mojoker said:

That's kind of like saying, "I called 911 for you, so, if you can't get on from there without education and support, fuck you."  And I love all the folks on the internet diagnosing Kathryn based on what amounts to minutes worth of highly edited television. As for the show, everyone wants Kathryn to "get a JOB", completely forgetting that she actually has a job.  Frankly, there's no other job she's qualified for at the moment that would pay much more than minimum wage, so she's kind of between a rock and a hard place. If she stays on the show, it may sabotage her recovery; if she leaves the show, she may never get another job and be deemed an inappropriate parent because of it. People give her a hard time, and maybe she deserves it, but I don't see many people actually giving a lot of thought to the reality (as opposed to reality TV) of what she's been through and what she's going through. 

No I don't think so.  You can't make someone get sober.  You can't make someone be responsible.  She is an adult so no one can make her stay at rehab.  The only way to make her stay somewhere would be to get her 5150'ed and how long does that last (3 days?)?  She is a sad case but its worse for the kids.  At some point its up the person fucking up their life to stop and love her kids more than drugs.  If I were to expect anyone to go above and beyond to help Kathryn its her parents.  It is really on Kathryn and Kathryn alone.  You can lead a horse to water and all that jazz.  

Thomas is an ass and I am glad he has someone else besides him looking after his kids.  If he never wants to speak to Kathryn again that is up to him.  Many co parents have no relationship with each other once the divorce/breakup happens except organizing custody and that seems moot right now.  To put more responsibility on Thomas to help Kathryn than say her parents or anyone else in her life is silly.  They are only connected via children she has no legal rights to at this point.

So what if she is not qualified for more than minimum wage?  Is she better than that?  She does have some skills.  She worked in politics for awhile before this gig.  But I bristle at the suggestion that if she is only qualified for minimum wage than she may as well not work.  The fact she would have somewhere to go, a schedule to follow, and a boss to answer to would go along way in helping her maintain a normal life.  And truth be told, with child support plus working even at minimum wage her children will be just fine.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Natalie68

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Charmers, if you’ve made your point or at least had your say, it’s time to move on.  We don’t all have to agree on how we feel about Kathryn or Thomas or TRav or Craig or the finer points of child rearing while dealing with addiction.  We do need to learn when we’re taking things too personally.  Yes, these are important issues but this is also a reality TV show.  There is no need to go back and forth.  Agree to disagree and move on. 

Don’t make kitty flex his claws! 

[zoeysmom]

Craig and Naomie, who seem to be quite happy, in real life, seemed out of character on this episode.  So I was wondering what all they (he) had going on during filming that would cause Naomie to question Craig's overload.  In addition to getting back on track to take the bar and write a thesis (August) due in December, they were also active in the Haitian orphanage they support and had the fund raiser . Craig and Naomie  visited Haiti the week before he sat for the bar exam.  Naomie's best friend got married and the two of them trained and ran the New York City Marathon in November and raised $10,000.00 for the Haitian orphans, hosted and worked with Habitat for Humanity. Craig bought the house. I am thinking they are both on the hyperactive side. I admire jealous of their energy.

It seems out of character they way they were speaking to each other and maybe the direct approach keeps the two of them together.  I am thinking at the time they had the disaster dinner Naomie was worried Craig would not finish his thesis.  I assume it gets worse this next week but I do agree with Craig, why air dirty laundry?  Most likely because working with orphans and Habitat for Humanity, writing a thesis on custody issues and volunteering at a support center for disenfranchised parents doesn't have the same allure as watching and listening to Shep, Thomas and Whitney trying to get laid and brag about the same.

Running and training for the marathon explains why Craig looks thinned down this year.

Edited May 4, 2017 by zoeysmom

[halkatla]

I was really enjoying this episode and then Landon came on... Everything about her is soooo pathetic! Kathryn is a terrible human being, but as far as "wrong reasons" reality tv watching is concerned, she is gold. She does evil, make-up pretty, crazy and wtf just right.

[Petunia13]

42 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Craig and Naomie, who seem to be quite happy, in real life, seemed out of character on this episode.  So I was wondering what all they (he) had going on during filming that would cause Naomie to question Craig's overload.  In addition to getting back on track to take the bar and write a thesis (August) due in December, they were also active in the Haitian orphanage they support and had the fund raiser . Craig and Naomie  visited Haiti the week before he sat for the bar exam.  Naomie's best friend got married and the two of them trained and ran the New York City Marathon in November and raised $10,000.00 for the Haitian orphans, hosted and worked with Habitat for Humanity. Craig bought the house. I am thinking they are both on the hyperactive side. I admire jealous of their energy.

It seems out of character they way they were speaking to each other and maybe the direct approach keeps the two of them together.  I am thinking at the time they had the disaster dinner Naomie was worried Craig would not finish his thesis.  I assume it gets worse this next week but I do agree with Craig, why air dirty laundry?  Most likely because working with orphans and Habitat for Humanity, writing a thesis on custody issues and volunteering at a support center for disenfranchised parents doesn't have the same allure as watching and listening to Shep, Thomas and Whitney trying to get laid and brag about the same.

Running and training for the marathon explains why Craig looks thinned down this year.

Thanks for posting this! It's nice to see. 

[nexxie]

8 hours ago, Suck It Trebek said:

She announced that they are expecting a baby girl over on Instagram. Not sure how to link.

Her reluctance was probably just a storyline.

[zoeysmom]

54 minutes ago, Petunia13 said:

Thanks for posting this! It's nice to see. 

You are quite welcome.  I am thinking Austen should take a page from their playbook and quit shadowing Shep. 

[slowpoked]

30 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

You are quite welcome.  I am thinking Austen should take a page from their playbook and quit shadowing Shep. 

For all of Cameran's talk about Shep having a good heart, it just needs to be the right woman, yada, yada, I think it's Craig who has the good heart. He may not just express himself well sometimes - heck, most times - but his good intentions are always there. To be honest, as this show goes on, I'm having a hard time seeing         this so-called good heart of Shep. All he's done so far is instigate fights with the group to make things more "interesting", chases skirts and shamelessly brags about his conquests, drinks until his liver begs him to stop, while being all high and mighty about this so-called bro code.

Edited May 4, 2017 by slowpoked

[zoeysmom]

30 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

For all of Cameran's talk about Shep having a good heart, it just needs to be the right woman, yada, yada, I think it's Craig who has the good heart. He may not just express himself well sometimes - heck, most times - but his good intentions are always there. To be honest, as this show goes on, I'm having a hard time seeing         this so-called good heart of Shep. All he's done so far is instigate fights with the group to make things more "interesting", chases skirts and shamelessly brags about his conquests, drinks until his liver begs him to stop, while being all high and mighty about this so-called bro code.

I have problems with the way the show is edited at times.  It always feels like Whitney as a producer wants to shade things a certain way.  He is all about the male prowling and making fun of Craig when only Craig and Cameran have real relationships.  Cameran I think has a good heart and is supportive of everyone but Kathryn.

There was a point in which I found Shep interesting but I find him so off putting with his constant self-promotion.  The guy seems to camp in the WWHL clubhouse.  Cameran and her voodoo love doll was interesting and wasted on Shep.

I found this quote within the Vulture recap of the episode:  "With their elongated faces, stringy fake hair, and outrageously flamboyant outfits, Larry's room full of voodoo dolls was sort of like seeing every single Real Housewives Reunion special at once."

More from Vulture here:   http://www.vulture.com/2017/05/southern-charm-recap-season-4-episode-5.html  Entertaining recap.  The reference to Kathryn having a frozen Jello Pudding Pop where her heart should be-just scratches the surface of a very entertaining recap.

[biakbiak]

6 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

It always feels like Whitney as a producer wants to shade things a certain way. 

Whitney is only an Executive Producer because he sold the show to Bravo he has nothing to do with the editing.

[halkatla]

I want Craig to know that he is a much better person and so above the other guys, and most reality tv people in general. I´m trying to send this information to him telepathically. I also love that he has a cat, I like dogs all right but it´s so boring never seeing cats. So cheers to Craig for that too.

Edited May 4, 2017 by halkatla

[LIMOM]

9 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

No I don't think so.  You can't make someone get sober.  You can't make someone be responsible.  She is an adult so no one can make her stay at rehab.  The only way to make her stay somewhere would be to get her 5150'ed and how long does that last (3 days?)?  She is a sad case but its worse for the kids.  At some point its up the person fucking up their life to stop and love her kids more than drugs.  If I were to expect anyone to go above and beyond to help Kathryn its her parents.  It is really on Kathryn and Kathryn alone.  You can lead a horse to water and all that jazz.  

Thomas is an ass and I am glad he has someone else besides him looking after his kids.  If he never wants to speak to Kathryn again that is up to him.  Many co parents have no relationship with each other once the divorce/breakup happens except organizing custody and that seems moot right now.  To put more responsibility on Thomas to help Kathryn than say her parents or anyone else in her life is silly.  They are only connected via children she has no legal rights to at this point.

So what if she is not qualified for more than minimum wage?  Is she better than that?  She does have some skills.  She worked in politics for awhile before this gig.  But I bristle at the suggestion that if she is only qualified for minimum wage than she may as well not work.  The fact she would have somewhere to go, a schedule to follow, and a boss to answer to would go along way in helping her maintain a normal life.  And truth be told, with child support plus working even at minimum wage her children will be just fine.

I think what we don't see is that they still have sexy times from time to time and instead of realizing that she is just a fuck buddy for Thomas, Kathryn believes that he was/is trying to establish a relationship with her.

that is why she is so angry, imo.

As far as mental illness, she could have post Portum depression in addition to her chemical addictions.

i don't see a sociopath but rather a stupid young woman here. 

In addition, her family was pushing her to marry Thomas. So she is getting manipulated by both Thomas and her family.

This sucks for the kids.

7 hours ago, slowpoked said:

For all of Cameran's talk about Shep having a good heart, it just needs to be the right woman, yada, yada, I think it's Craig who has the good heart. He may not just express himself well sometimes - heck, most times - but his good intentions are always there. To be honest, as this show goes on, I'm having a hard time seeing         this so-called good heart of Shep. All he's done so far is instigate fights with the group to make things more "interesting", chases skirts and shamelessly brags about his conquests, drinks until his liver begs him to stop, while being all high and mighty about this so-called bro code.

Plus his talk about being part of the Bourgeoisie and the OC (who knew this was a thing) is both outdated and off putting. 

There is absolutely nothing appealing about Shep.

Edited May 4, 2017 by LIMOM

[zoeysmom]

7 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Whitney is only an Executive Producer because he sold the show to Bravo he has nothing to do with the editing.

It is worse than I suspected.  I figured as a producer Whitney was trying to move the storyline along in a direction he thought would aid editing.  I can't believe he can be that much of an ass.  Thanks for the heads' up.

[corter20]

21 hours ago, sadie said:

Sorry Mojoker, wasn't attacking your point. I was trying to express (badly) was that it appears Kathryn has had access to help, she went to rehab and it still didn't stick. At some point she has to make the choice and move forward. Her family sent her to rehab so I assume they want her to be clean and are willing to help. But when she keeps failing her drug screens speak to me of someone who isn't ready to be clean despite her words.

I agree with this, but I disagree with the rehab she went to. Those "Malibu" rehabs are notorious for being a fraud. I have dealt with rehabs my entire life (my estranged dad is a drug addict and at 52, after he gets out of jail, he is headed to his 7th rehab because it is a life long battle) and what she needs is a dual program. Kathryn is dealing with a two front battle. Dealing with drugs and overcoming addiction is hard enough, but it is very clear that she has a mental disorder and one that more than likely requires a Med to help function like abnormal human being. My dad is a narccist with sociopathic tendencies. He has always been that way and drugs just heightened it. It is a double edged sword trying to control the mental disorders while not  becoming addicted to the meds he is on. 

She could benefit from a rehab within a hospital. They are available but they are not glamorous at all. I think she needs some support, but I also completely understand why people would want to wash their hands clean of her. Addiction and mental disorders are not easy and they are even harder on the family and friends who witness it. I would honestly think that Thomas, of all people, would understand what was going on. Kathryn is at fault for a lot of things and she has got to get control of her life, but I feel like Thomas eggs on a lot of things that make Kathryn react. Between her mental capacity and drugs, she just can't see through his games and respond like an adult. It is obvious her mental growth is stunted due to everything. 

[LIMOM]

1 hour ago, corter20 said:

I agree with this, but I disagree with the rehab she went to. Those "Malibu" rehabs are notorious for being a fraud. I have dealt with rehabs my entire life (my estranged dad is a drug addict and at 52, after he gets out of jail, he is headed to his 7th rehab because it is a life long battle) and what she needs is a dual program. Kathryn is dealing with a two front battle. Dealing with drugs and overcoming addiction is hard enough, but it is very clear that she has a mental disorder and one that more than likely requires a Med to help function like abnormal human being. My dad is a narccist with sociopathic tendencies. He has always been that way and drugs just heightened it. It is a double edged sword trying to control the mental disorders while not  becoming addicted to the meds he is on. 

She could benefit from a rehab within a hospital. They are available but they are not glamorous at all. I think she needs some support, but I also completely understand why people would want to wash their hands clean of her. Addiction and mental disorders are not easy and they are even harder on the family and friends who witness it. I would honestly think that Thomas, of all people, would understand what was going on. Kathryn is at fault for a lot of things and she has got to get control of her life, but I feel like Thomas eggs on a lot of things that make Kathryn react. Between her mental capacity and drugs, she just can't see through his games and respond like an adult. It is obvious her mental growth is stunted due to everything. 

Absolutely!

he is totally playing with her freaking emotions. He is a grade 10 asshole imo.

THomas ordered her not to be friend with Jennifer and then he turns around and kisses Jennifer's ass at the reunion(in Kathryn's eyes, he was just being civil).

I hate his immature ass and I fear for his daughter.

Edited May 4, 2017 by LIMOM

[iloveit]

Minus the scenes with Jennifer and Kathryn and Naomi and Craig fighting, this was a good, fun episode.  

I loved the hoodoo doll scene with Cam and her mom and Larry.  It was fun to see something quirky and different and special to the South Carolina area.

Loved Craig's sewing machine scenes, especially the thread stand and the embroidered C &N cupid handkerchief. Hilarious! I love his interests and special talents.  Everyone says he doesn't do anything all day but it seems like he has hobbies.  I assume during the filming period, he was finishing his law school stuff and starting to study for the bar.  I don't know what everyone expects him to be doing. It's not like he is going to be a regular job while filming and studying.

If I were Naomie, I would have been pissed that Craig hadn't mentioned buying an investment property and the clothing line and then just sprang it on her that he was doing those things.  (also would be pissed about the "she needs to appreciate me as much as I think she should" line.) Craig does not sound like he is headed toward a regular 9-5 lawyering job which is fine - he has talents and seems to be interested in being an entrepreneur and will probably succeed.  It doesn't sound like Naomie is on board with that idea which is also fine and her priority - but they won't last if they are on different pages and have very different life goals and vision.

How is Shep not obese with drinking some much every day?  I wish they flashed back to Season 1 when Shep was talking about bro code and hating on Craig for talking about it when Shep slept with Kathryn. 

Austen would be likable if he hadn't lied to Chelsea about how many one night stands he has had and if he hadn't told the girl in the first episode that she was taking a walk of shame.  

Whitney making fun of Thomas during their dinner made me laugh.  

Jennifer should never speak to Kathryn again unless she comes to Jennifer with a sincere apology.  

[Nancypants]

I would love to know if Landon really is as Stupid as her edit. 

I fucking hate her.

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, LIMOM said:

Absolutely!

he is totally playing with her freaking emotions. He is a grade 10 asshole imo.

THomas ordered her not to be friend with Jennifer and then he turns around and kisses Jennifer's ass at the reunion(in Kathryn's eyes, he was just being civil).

I hate his immature ass and I fear for his daughter.

Jennifer is so incredibly sympathetic, but I do recall last year when she misled or lied to Craig about Thomas not seeing Kathryn in the hospital.  She also did the live reporting from the flamingo party.  So does not have a terribly innocent past when it comes to interfering.  My guess is Thomas forgave her when he learned she was going through a difficult pregnancy.  Some real life tragedies surpass petty bickering.  This one is pretty big. 

Kathryn always has interesting albeit not terribly sympathetic responses to her behavior.  Tweeting, "I have a huge heart (Emoji) that scene hurts my feelings."  Say what Kathryn?  Outside of blaming it on editing (Kathryn did that as well) she could have said she was in a bad place at the Reunion with Thomas due to custody rulings and felt as if she lost an ally in Jennifer.  Certainly not a perfect response but better than the editing blame.  Oh and Kathryn also tweeted, "I did not reach out to anyone, better yet anyone, as I was in rehab."  Maybe she should have expressed those sentiments.

There is a part of me that empathizes with the cast that has elected to include both Kathryn and Thomas in their lives.  There just doesn't seem to be an upside.  Obviously they all (Including Thomas) want Kathryn to have a healthy, happy relationship with the children but there is just so much risk at getting involved with these parents on anything but a superficial level.   Whitney, Cameran. Patricia and Landon have it easy, they just stay the course with Thomas and don't entertain Kathryn at all.  They don't have to worry about crossing her. 

I like the idea the producers included Jennifer post-partum this season.  Just wish Kathryn could have used it as an opportunity to bond with her instead of clash with her.   

[gunderda]

On 5/2/2017 at 8:23 AM, sadie said:

I find nothing endearing about Craig. Naomi was simply stating the obvious. You can't jump from thing to thing with no drive or direction and expect to get anywhere.

Usually I would agree 100%.  Especially if we were in season 1.  But we're not and we know these people are making some serious money.  So because of that I think Craig now has the liberty to take his time, jump from thing to thing and see if something sticks. Even if he were only making $40k a year.  He doesn't have a mortgage or rent payment so even then he'd be pretty well off and test out some hobbies.

[RedHawk]

3 minutes ago, gunderda said:

Usually I would agree 100%.  Especially if we were in season 1.  But we're not and we know these people are making some serious money.  So because of that I think Craig now has the liberty to take his time, jump from thing to thing and see if something sticks. Even if he were only making $40k a year.  He doesn't have a mortgage or rent payment so even then he'd be pretty well off and test out some hobbies.

I agree. Just wrote a couple of paragraphs about Craig in his thread. Some people, especially those with the time and re$ources, just are better at finding their own path through trial and error. I think Craig does have drive, and his direction was toward passing the bar. Now he passed it, a big achievement that opens many possibilities. 

Also, I imagine Naomie's parents do charge the couple rent. Or aren't they in a different house now, because they had to move out of her parents' house when it sold? Why, with a Bravo paycheck, would he not be expected to kick in for living expenses?

[gunderda]

1 minute ago, RedHawk said:

I agree. Just wrote a couple of paragraphs about Craig in his thread. Some people, especially those with the time and re$ources, just are better at finding their own path through trial and error. I think Craig does have drive, and his direction was toward passing the bar. Now he passed it, a big achievement that opens many possibilities. 

Also, I imagine Naomie's parents do charge the couple rent. Or aren't they in a different house now, because they had to move out of her parents' house when it sold? Why, with a Bravo paycheck, would he not be expected to kick in for living expenses?

Probably just depends on her parents.  Some parents wouldn't have their kids pay rent, some would.  So if they are paying rent then I bet it's not much in to comparison of what they would if the house wasn't owned by her parents. 

[biakbiak]

4 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Also, I imagine Naomie's parents do charge the couple rent. Or aren't they in a different house now, because they had to move out of her parents' house when it sold? Why, with a Bravo paycheck, would he not be expected to kick in for living expenses?

They talked about living rent free in the old house which was huge and on the water, this house is also owned by her parents.