S04.E18: No Regrets

[blackwing]

It was great to see Trip.  I always thought it strange how the show suddenly killed him off with no warning and barely any mention of him ever again.  No one ever truly dies in a comic book, so maybe he can still come back.

Sad to lose Mace.  In the Framework he definitely seemed to be Inhuman with super strength.  Typically super strength comes with some degree of invulnerability.  How is it that he survived that first mini collapse that buried him and the boy, yet can't punch his way out of the final collapse?  He could be buried but he'd be able to shift around and loosen things until he can escape.  But his body flatlining in the real world I guess indicates he is gone baby gone.  I agree with the sentiment upthread that Jason O'Mara has horrible luck with TV shows.  Either they always get cancelled or his character always dies.

[Traveller519]

*Heard from the next room, "That wasn't the point, you miserable witch!"

Besides being a great laugh, that was well done for a show-don't-tell method of letting us know that Radcliffe was a) Still alive, b) within earshot of a normal conversation in the next room and c) experiencing remorse. Which set up his and Daisy's talk in the third act. I enjoyed how they contrasted that talk, with Radcliffe's waxing on about how a sentance can change one person forever with a very visible self-evaluation from May, and some more crack's in the framework armor from Fitz. If there's one thing this show has been consistent in, it's that the world, and life, isn't as simple as Radcliffe like's to convince himself it is.

Daisy shot down the Lincoln offer pretty quick. I wonder if she'll rethink that if she's forced to confront Trip, who sacrificed himself for her, or maybe Cal, who is working under Fitz, and developed the super-serum for Hydra.

[tennisgurl]

No, Mace! I don't want this, I don't want it at all! Its good that he died heroically here. Mace never really was a bad guy, despite the disdain a lot of the good guys (especially Coulson) had for him. Yeah he went with a story of his own heroics when it wasn't true, but he did seem to see it as a lie for the greater good, and he showed repeatedly that he was a well meaning, competent leader who could play the political game, and run SHIELD on a more official level then most others leaders have. It was so sad when Simmons admitted she hardly knew the guy, and her horror when he actually died. I think this version of him really was an Inhuman, not a guy with serum.

On the other hand, Trip is back! This I DO want! For a guy who wasn't around for that long, and didn't even have a whole lot to do, I have really found memories of him, and its going to be awesome having him around again. And, shockingly, I actually find myself really liking and rooting for this Ward, and hoping that Simmons gives him a chance. I can totally understand why she has trouble dealing with him, considering how much she (rightfully) hated the Ward she knew, but this guy seems to be on the up and up. It does seem to be hitting her that she cant just discount all the people in this virtual world as just being programming. Its going to be heartbreaking when Mack as to leave Hope, who is just a ridiculously adorable kid. Its turning into a real issue here. Yeah our guys are going to want to leave, but what about everyone else created by this world, who have thoughts and feelings and their own lives and histories?

Madam Hydra might be Evil, but her wardrobe game is one point.

So Fitz became evil in this world because he had his awful, abusive dad forming him, and no Simmons or any other positive influences in his life? That's going to be a really tough pill for him to swallow when he becomes real Fitz again.

This is the best arc they have done in ages (I liked the Ghost Rider arc, but this one is surpassing it) and I cant wait to see where its going.

[Vyk]

8 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

We finally got a look back at what's happening in the real world when AIDA saw that Mace's vitals had flat-lined. Being a robot, I am not sure why AIDA cares about keeping any of the Agents alive - it makes no difference to their lives in the Framework  (see Radcliffe).  ...Which makes it odd that dying in the Framework does affect the bodies back in the real world.

 

7 hours ago, CaptainTightpants said:

I don't understand how Mace's physical body would have died. Getting killed in the framework is something like dying in a very vivid dream, I would assume. 

But your brain activity doesn't simply stop because you think you get killed. It is a physical process, he should still be alive in the real world because his real body wasn't injured in any way. His brain should be working just fine. 

I have to say that this development took me right out of the story. 

If Aida had been monitoring the situation and turned him off when he dies in the framework that would make more sense. But it showed his brainwave activity flat line before that.

I just took the whole situation as the Framework being similar to The Matrix.  In those movies, they always lived by the concept of the body being unable to live without the brain.  The Framework must be the same.  Mace's brain must've died since he thought he himself died, so the rest of his body followed, as well.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

On 4/17/2017 at 10:58 PM, ixixan said:

All I want is a Philinda reunion already. I'm hoping it will happen in 418 since Phil is with Mace and Mace and Melinda fight at one point.

That aside, I've really been enjoying the Framework arc so far.

Did you catch how Coulson very easily and familiarly yelled at her and called her "May" in the building scene in spite of this supposedly being the first time they met?

I think May began to turn when during the fight she called Mace a thug, and he pointed out if he was a thug she would be dead.  There was a noticeable beat and a kind of hesitancy when she called in the status update.

So I am trying to figure out, is Aida IRL plugged into the framework for the Aida avatar to function in the framework?  Or is the Aida avatar a free-running program?  Because it looked like the Aida IRL at the end seemed surprised/saddened by the death of Mace.  She also did look a lot more mechanical, so it is possible the "original" Aida is plugged in while she has some "pure" versions running around maintaining everyone on the outside.  

I think the only way they are going to turn Fitz to good is somehow show his dad as being someone who murdered his mom or something like that.  

I think Daisy being able to get her powers is a by-product of the Framework.  Aida doesn't "control" the Framework, all the actions etc of the members does, it is just a bunch of algorithms that are generated to create a real world.  IOW, it isn't like the Matrix, where the machines had eyes and ears everywhere, Aida is just a part of it, and although by interjecting her avatar within the framework she is manipulating things, she isn't omnipotent.  She was able to override her programming against killing humans for one human, that was Radcliffe, because he made some comment about the Framework being the substitute or something, thus she said "Thank you" to Radcliffe for solving her dilemma (protecting the Framework and "protecting" humans) by killing Radcliffe but sticking him in the Framework immediately (to continue to live).

[ravmeltt]

I am so enjoying this show. I'm really liking Framework Phil although I liked the other one just the same. I can't help but like seeing new Ward. I always liked him (he's so sexy) and hated when they turned him bad, especially as Hives. That's the one thing I will regret when they go back to the real world, that nice Ward won't be there.

Can't wait for May and Daisy to kick butt. You go girls!

[xqueenfrostine]

5 hours ago, Sandman said:

She was constrained by her programming; honestly, I'm not sure what kind of limitations she has now. She's already been able to override the restriction against killing humans, among other things. I presume that some of this evolution beyond her original limitations is because of the influence of the Darkhold and her little "If I Only Had A Brain (Knitted Out Of Photons)" exercise. 

Who have we directly seen her kill other than Radcliffe?  She's coaxed other people killing for her, but the only person I can remember her killing herself was Radcliffe.  If that's right, then her killing a person is not evidence that the Darkholde removed her limitations into her programming.  She had to coax Radcliffe into basically giving her the go ahead before she killed him.  That's Aida exploiting a loophole, not Aida throwing off her programming.  I mean, I think it's also telling that she hasn't killed Daisy within the framework. Surely it'd be easier for her to just kill Daisy within the framework and then find and kill Simmons than it would be to get them to tell her where their bodies in the real world.  But she's not taking that route.  Why?  I think the easiest answer to that question is that it's because she can't.  

5 hours ago, Sandman said:

But I can't help thinking the deck is stacked in "Madame Hydra"'s favour. If the only purpose of the Framework is to remove each person's greatest regret, why is Madame Hydra at the top of the structure? This is why I think AIDA's assertions can't be taken at face value: because the nature of a dictatorship is preserve the position of the dictator. She may say she wants the choice that is integral to being human. Her actions imply that what she really seeks is the power to enslave her enemies.

I don't disagree with you that the deck is stacked in Aida's favor or that she's working to preserve her place within the framework, we just disagree with what kind of powers she has or how she's accomplishing that.   I think Aida has molded herself to fit into the position she wanted within the framework, not that she's molded the framework to fit around her.  She has near perfect knowledge of the "real" players within the framework thanks to the maps she and Radcliffe made of their brains, AND she knows what the algorithm is doing within the framework.  That gives her a giant advantage without making it necessary storywise for her to be nearly omnipotent within the framework.  

[Sandman]

11 minutes ago, xqueenfrostine said:

Who have we directly seen her kill other than Radcliffe?  She's coaxed other people killing for her, but the only person I can remember her killing herself was Radcliffe.

She killed the agent who came looking for May, no? I think attacking the team counts as beyond her programming, but that might have been at Radcliffe's urging. But she removed her pain responses (so that she would be harder to hurt, and would have an easier time hurting humans) because she decided she didn't like them. I think the last was after she made contact with the Darkhold.

The mere fact that she wanted the top-of-the-pile position suggests to me that her assertions that (a) all she did was remove one regret from each person and (b) her goal is to be as free as any other person, are at best self-serving, and at worst meaningless.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Sandman

[AKA...CJ86]

Didn't think I'd be as excited to see Tripp... but wow!

And Mace... this show really loves killing the character's I love. Even if it was a Framework induced... and it least he went out in a blaze of heroism and glory.

[Enigma X]

I am also loving this arc but still don't believe that some of the behavior changes were caused by removing one regret. As much as I love this arc, I have a feeling I am going to hate the aftermath of Fitz and Jemma doubting Fitz for what happened.

[TVSpectator]

2 hours ago, xqueenfrostine said:

Who have we directly seen her kill other than Radcliffe?  She's coaxed other people killing for her, but the only person I can remember her killing herself was Radcliffe.  If that's right, then her killing a person is not evidence that the Darkholde removed her limitations into her programming.  She had to coax Radcliffe into basically giving her the go ahead before she killed him.  That's Aida exploiting a loophole, not Aida throwing off her programming.  I mean, I think it's also telling that she hasn't killed Daisy within the framework. Surely it'd be easier for her to just kill Daisy within the framework and then find and kill Simmons than it would be to get them to tell her where their bodies in the real world.  But she's not taking that route.  Why?  I think the easiest answer to that question is that it's because she can't.  

I don't disagree with you that the deck is stacked in Aida's favor or that she's working to preserve her place within the framework, we just disagree with what kind of powers she has or how she's accomplishing that.   I think Aida has molded herself to fit into the position she wanted within the framework, not that she's molded the framework to fit around her.  She has near perfect knowledge of the "real" players within the framework thanks to the maps she and Radcliffe made of their brains, AND she knows what the algorithm is doing within the framework.  That gives her a giant advantage without making it necessary storywise for her to be nearly omnipotent within the framework.  

1

What about Nathanson? I know that he was a minor character but he was human and she basically choked him to death.  And this is also the death that is not only on Radcliffe's hands but on Fitz's and Simmons' as well. 

[jhlipton]

The "Cambridge Incident" happened because Framework!May couldn't kill a little girl -- AIDA used "Real Life"!May's killing her as "the biggest regret".  So finding out that Madame Hydra and Fitz are content to kill an entire building of kids was the jolt she needed to throw off the programming.

 

14 hours ago, mac123x said:

I'm also confused / intrigued by Project [Something I can't remember

Project Looking Glass -- which Alice used to go into her "Framework".

Edited April 20, 2017 by jhlipton

[VCRTracking]

Also loved Hope calling Jemma the "British Lady". She is too pure for either the Framework or the real world. It'll be gutwrenching seeing Mac have to give her up.

[ixixan]

6 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Project Looking Glass -- which Alice used to go into her "Framework".

I was wondering if Project Looking Glass might be used to get people out of the Framework somehow? I've been wondering if they'd bring back FW!Ward as an LMD or something or if they'd somehow re-create Hope?

[Teitr Styrr]

Wow, this arc has been fantastic! That last scene made me giggle. As far as bringing Ward, Tripp or Hope back to the real world somehow, I am preparing my heart for much sadness. We'll see I guess.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

19 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

What about Nathanson? I know that he was a minor character but he was human and she basically choked him to death.  And this is also the death that is not only on Radcliffe's hands but on Fitz's and Simmons' as well. 

From what I remember, Radcliffe was shocked by what Aida did to Nathanson and I think her excuse was that it was necessary to protect the plan.  Not sure if he further tweaked her commands to have a higher level of thought-process before killing again after that, but I think right now she has some "no-harming of humans" programmed into her system.

I just realized, as much as I have enjoyed this arc, isn't there a crisis still going on IRL?

[Raja]

36 minutes ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

From what I remember, Radcliffe was shocked by what Aida did to Nathanson and I think her excuse was that it was necessary to protect the plan.  Not sure if he further tweaked her commands to have a higher level of thought-process before killing again after that, but I think right now she has some "no-harming of humans" programmed into her system.

I just realized, as much as I have enjoyed this arc, isn't there a crisis still going on IRL?

The MODOK Superior is still out with his remotely controlled LMD body and Aida asked him to read the Darkhold before going after Inhumans. Yo-yo and Piper are tasked to protect the known Inhumans as well as Daisy and Simmons bodies 

[HawaiiTVGuy]

24 minutes ago, Raja said:

The MODOK Superior is still out with his remotely controlled LMD body and Aida asked him to read the Darkhold before going after Inhumans. Yo-yo and Piper are tasked to protect the known Inhumans as well as Daisy and Simmons bodies 

I am so confused by this, I must have missed it at the end of the fall season finale.  Does anyone have a clip of that scene I can see?

[TVSpectator]

2 hours ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

From what I remember, Radcliffe was shocked by what Aida did to Nathanson and I think her excuse was that it was necessary to protect the plan.  Not sure if he further tweaked her commands to have a higher level of thought-process before killing again after that, but I think right now she has some "no-harming of humans" programmed into her system.

I just realized, as much as I have enjoyed this arc, isn't there a crisis still going on IRL?

 

 

1 hour ago, Raja said:

The MODOK Superior is still out with his remotely controlled LMD body and Aida asked him to read the Darkhold before going after Inhumans. Yo-yo and Piper are tasked to protect the known Inhumans as well as Daisy and Simmons bodies 

 

Yeah, but wasn't AIDA at first programmed by Fitz and also Radcliffe to not kill humans and then she just killed Nathanson like he was some mook? I know that she was protecting their plan but still it seems that she had gone above her original programming about not killing humans. 

 

As with what is going on outside of the Framework, well yeah, they have to go back to the real world and close/tie-up all of those loose ends not to mentioned all of the loose ends that being inside the Framework created for the main cast, as well. I have a feeling that we won't see the real world until like between episodes 20-22 and maybe they will also add a small stinger at the end but it doesn't seem very likely that we will see any real world dealings until like 4X20. 

[Raja]

46 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

 

Yeah, but wasn't AIDA at first programmed by Fitz and also Radcliffe to not kill humans and then she just killed Nathanson like he was some mook? I know that she was protecting their plan but still it seems that she had gone above her original programming about not killing humans. 

 

As with what is going on outside of the Framework, well yeah, they have to go back to the real world and close/tie-up all of those loose ends not to mentioned all of the loose ends that being inside the Framework created for the main cast, as well. I have a feeling that we won't see the real world until like between episodes 20-22 and maybe they will also add a small stinger at the end but it doesn't seem very likely that we will see any real world dealings until like 4X20. 

I think her protect the Framework task for some reason took precedence over protect humanity. maybe a result of the Darkhold. Without The Superior's resources at the time, perhaps she just concluded that there was not yet room for Nathanson as some SHIELD Agents were more important than other SHIELD Agents.

 

I guess I will restate my wish for another Yo-yo web series for what has gone on in the real world while Daisy and Simmons fight inside of the framework.

[Raja]

2 hours ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

I am so confused by this, I must have missed it at the end of the fall season finale.  Does anyone have a clip of that scene I can see?

My first google fu try only brought up Aida telling The Superior that she needs him alive to protect the framework. Later in the episode we find his detached head in the bowl controlling the LMD body. My speculation is that he is one of the MODOK's, MODOK Superior in particular. Even if Iron Man 3 destroyed A.I.M. as it was the creator of the first MODOK I am almost certain we just got a MCU version of that with normal human porportions'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQw0CHre1ko

[Sandman]

14 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

Yeah, but wasn't AIDA at first programmed by Fitz and also Radcliffe to not kill humans and then she just killed Nathanson like he was some mook? I know that she was protecting their plan but still it seems that she had gone above her original programming about not killing humans.

As I recall, her original programming called for her to protect humans and to refrain from harming them. Then Radcliffe tasked her with protecting the Framework, and she gave that as the reason for killing Nathanson; then she attacked the team when they came to Radcliffe's apartment and discovered her. It was at that point (pre-Darkhold, I think) that she told them she'd removed her pain responses. That's what sticks in my memory about her transcending her programming.

[diadochokinesis]

On 4/20/2017 at 1:15 AM, tennisgurl said:

No, Mace! I don't want this, I don't want it at all! Its good that he died heroically here. Mace never really was a bad guy, despite the disdain a lot of the good guys (especially Coulson) had for him. Yeah he went with a story of his own heroics when it wasn't true, but he did seem to see it as a lie for the greater good, and he showed repeatedly that he was a well meaning, competent leader who could play the political game, and run SHIELD on a more official level then most others leaders have. It was so sad when Simmons admitted she hardly knew the guy, and her horror when he actually died. I think this version of him really was an Inhuman, not a guy with serum.

On the other hand, Trip is back! This I DO want! For a guy who wasn't around for that long, and didn't even have a whole lot to do, I have really found memories of him, and its going to be awesome having him around again. And, shockingly, I actually find myself really liking and rooting for this Ward, and hoping that Simmons gives him a chance. I can totally understand why she has trouble dealing with him, considering how much she (rightfully) hated the Ward she knew, but this guy seems to be on the up and up. It does seem to be hitting her that she cant just discount all the people in this virtual world as just being programming. Its going to be heartbreaking when Mack as to leave Hope, who is just a ridiculously adorable kid. Its turning into a real issue here. Yeah our guys are going to want to leave, but what about everyone else created by this world, who have thoughts and feelings and their own lives and histories?

Madam Hydra might be Evil, but her wardrobe game is one point.

So Fitz became evil in this world because he had his awful, abusive dad forming him, and no Simmons or any other positive influences in his life? That's going to be a really tough pill for him to swallow when he becomes real Fitz again.

This is the best arc they have done in ages (I liked the Ghost Rider arc, but this one is surpassing it) and I cant wait to see where its going.

10

The only thing that bugs me is the elbows on the sleeves of the jacket.  It is just so weird!  I get that it would be awesome for movement but it would drive me nuts. 

As far as the comments about the Framework mirroring current events, I have to agree.  It does. I'm not really that surprised though.  Think about Buffy.  Yes, it was a Joss show but he would draw parallels with the real world and blow it up by making it demons and vampires instead of the normal, everyday problems. It was part of why Buffy is so beloved even all these years later. 

[tennisgurl]

On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 8:39 PM, Enigma X said:

I am going to hate the aftermath of Fitz and Jemma doubting Fitz for what happened.

Yeah I really like this arc, but Fitz just makes me feel sad and I'm not sure I totally buy the whole "one regret" thing. I hate thinking about how miserable and guilt ridden he will be after this, and knowing that, according to this, he could have been a horrifying sadistic Scottish Mengele if something as simple as his dad sticking around had happened. I just don't know if that lines up with the Fitz we have gotten to know over the years. He has a bit of a dark side (like when he was sucking the air out of Wards prison cell when he had brain damage) but he has always been a good person who has risks his life to help others countless times, and has put others happiness or safety before his own. I just feel like there must be some more to this, especially considering the giant crush madam Hydra has on him. I would feel better if it turned out she did something extra to make him her boyfriend/lacky. And its going to be extra hard for FitzSimmons. I can imagine its going to be hard for them to come back from this, even if Simmons knows this isn't how he really is.

Then sheer amount of factors that keep them apart is almost darkly hilarious. Fitz finally admits his love for Simmons? Brain damage and undercover mission. Simmons admits she has feelings for Fitz? Sucked into an alternate universe. Simmons rescued from said planet? She's in love with Space Boyfriend. Finally together? Alternate Matrix Universe and Fitz is turned into a psychopath.

[rubyred]

I find myself both anticipating and dreading each of the episodes of this arc. They have been so damn good, but the anxiety and tension as I watch them unfold forces me to pause constantly.

This is the thing I don't get about AIDA and the Framework. So AIDA is handwaving that HydraWorld is a dystopian nightmare by saying that she's only helping people fix "one regret" -- so basically the completely disparate life experiences of this handful of people created the basis for this totalitarian hellscape? So it's their fault?! Wha? AIDA used to be far more perceptive - does she not notice that this world of hers sucks big time for everyone except her and Fitz? And why does she keep them around anyway (in their RealWorld induced coma state) if they're such a threat to her Happy Place?

Also I don't understand how people within the Framework who are dead in the RealWorld could conceivably "cross over"? I would love to see Hope and Trip in the RealWorld, but I don't understand how that could happen without a RealWorld human body...container. Has this been explained or alluded to?

[HawaiiTVGuy]

I have to say that this arc has made me want to watch the episode right when my DVR records it.  It is a testament to how much this arc has me hooked.  Of course it sucks that I can't just binge watch everything straight and have to keep waiting 7 days to find out what happens next.

[Froippi]

i really think by time this over Fitz and Simmons breakup and Fitz walks away from Shield broken

[mac123x]

3 hours ago, rubyred said:

This is the thing I don't get about AIDA and the Framework. So AIDA is handwaving that HydraWorld is a dystopian nightmare by saying that she's only helping people fix "one regret" -- so basically the completely disparate life experiences of this handful of people created the basis for this totalitarian hellscape? So it's their fault?! Wha?

Yeah, I don't really buy that either, considering three of the six regrets she fixed were pretty innocuous:

1.  Mack gets to be with Hope

2. Radcliffe saves the life of whats-her-name (human with a brain tumor that AIDA is modeled after)

3. Mace gets to be an Inhuman

 

So really it's down to three regrets getting fixed resulted in the algorithms creating a crapsack world:  May didn't kill the little girl, Fitz was raised by his dad, and Coulson didn't join SHIELD.   I'm still betting on the Darkhold being the reals source of this dystopia.

[rubyred]

Also, AIDA had to have been lying about being able to bring Lincoln back, right? Because she never downloaded Daisy's conciousness/memories of Lincoln, so all she would have to go on were the other team members memories and they didn't know him as well...oh, and also, Lincoln died before AIDA was born, right? So there's no way she has a human to make into an avatar, she's never even met the dude. (Oh, and stop teasing me, show. Luke Mitchell may be on a crap show but it's a much better role. Lincoln ain't coming back to be Daisy's Gary Stu.)

Oy I think I am going to stop trying to make sense of this and just enjoy the action and drama.

[Raja]

44 minutes ago, rubyred said:

Also, AIDA had to have been lying about being able to bring Lincoln back, right? Because she never downloaded Daisy's conciousness/memories of Lincoln, so all she would have to go on were the other team members memories and they didn't know him as well...oh, and also, Lincoln died before AIDA was born, right? So there's no way she has a human to make into an avatar, she's never even met the dude. (Oh, and stop teasing me, show. Luke Mitchell may be on a crap show but it's a much better role. Lincoln ain't coming back to be Daisy's Gary Stu.)

Oy I think I am going to stop trying to make sense of this and just enjoy the action and drama.

My guess  is that a Lincoln for Daisy would be the equivalent of Fitz's dad.

[CaptainTightpants]

I'm rewatching the episode and I forgot the best line in the whole show! When Coulson is talking to Patriot and expressing his enthusiasm for future undercover work,

"I could do an accent. Or another language maybe, my Spanish is mucho bueno."

Clark Gregg can do deadpan funny when he is playing opposite a doorknob. But I will keenly miss his scenes with Jason O'Mara! They have such great chemistry together, perfect timing and delivery. These two are the Sheild power couple that I have always wanted. ?

I would totally behind the idea of bringing him back next season, in any form, even if it has to be roboMace. He likes his barbeque sweet not spicy, bring this hero back!

The rewatch is also driving home how much I am personally tired of Aida and all of her smirking. 

[HawaiiTVGuy]

4 hours ago, mac123x said:

Yeah, I don't really buy that either, considering three of the six regrets she fixed were pretty innocuous:

1.  Mack gets to be with Hope

2. Radcliffe saves the life of whats-her-name (human with a brain tumor that AIDA is modeled after)

3. Mace gets to be an Inhuman

 

So really it's down to three regrets getting fixed resulted in the algorithms creating a crapsack world:  May didn't kill the little girl, Fitz was raised by his dad, and Coulson didn't join SHIELD.   I'm still betting on the Darkhold being the reals source of this dystopia.

Aida's excuse is the Butterfly effect.  Of course, as Radcliffe pointed out, she is ignoring how much of a role she herself is affecting the ripples.

[Tiger]

On 4/20/2017 at 0:42 AM, jhlipton said:

The "Cambridge Incident" happened because Framework!May couldn't kill a little girl -- AIDA used "Real Life"!May's killing her as "the biggest regret".  So finding out that Madame Hydra and Fitz are content to kill an entire building of kids was the jolt she needed to throw off the programming.

Upon re-watch, I don't May remembered/shook off her programming.  I think she has a sense that something is wrong, and questioned her allegiance to Hydra when she realized she wasnt actually keeping kids safe.  And I think the best evidence of this was her looking at the list of names of those that died in the cambridge incident.  

[jhlipton]

6 hours ago, Raja said:

My guess  is that a Lincoln for Daisy would be the equivalent of Fitz's dad.

Except Fitz knew his dad, so AIDA could model FW-Dad off his memories.  She really doesn't have good, deep memories of Lincoln, though.

[hello]

Quote

I'm still betting on the Darkhold being the reals source of this dystopia.

"Have people forgotten me already? I'm just a silly little book! No fears, friend - I'm easy reading! Don't believe me? Go ahead and open me, then! You're not afraid, are ya?" - The Darkhold, telepathically goading you, just now

[Mellowyellow]

They killed Mace. oh I'm so upset! Just stopped crying. The music, the last shots of Mace, Jemma's face, that scene was heartbreaking.

I'm so upset I can't even celebrate Tripp's return and I really like Tripp.

Dammnit I love this show. 

ETA:

I've recovered somewhat. That was a very heroic death which made it all the more heartbreaking for me. I believe Mace in the real world tried hard and wanted to do things for the greater good. He had no powers but was good with politics so he made the best use of his circumstances. In the matrix and in death I think he got to be the hero he always wanted to be. oh I'm so sad. I was very attached to Mace.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Mellowyellow

[Lady Calypso]

16 hours ago, rubyred said:

Also, AIDA had to have been lying about being able to bring Lincoln back, right? Because she never downloaded Daisy's conciousness/memories of Lincoln, so all she would have to go on were the other team members memories and they didn't know him as well...oh, and also, Lincoln died before AIDA was born, right? So there's no way she has a human to make into an avatar, she's never even met the dude. (Oh, and stop teasing me, show. Luke Mitchell may be on a crap show but it's a much better role. Lincoln ain't coming back to be Daisy's Gary Stu.)

That's why she wanted to know where Daisy's body is. So she can go there and plug Daisy into the Framework and give her Lincoln in exchange. It's the exact same as the Grant Ward situation. Somehow, NPC (Non-Playable Character) Ward and NPC Skye are part of the Framework before Daisy/Simmons went in, so there are still NPCs of them roaming around or at least acknowledged in the Framework. But unless Daisy lets Aida know where her body is, she can't give her Lincoln because that requires some rewiring of the Framework to give it to her. Now, whether Aida's lying about being able to give her Lincoln, it's all up in the air. I assume that she'll be able to, but it's a question on if she would. 

[StarBrand]

I'm wondering-is it hard-wired into inhuman's DNA that if they undergo Terragenesis, they always have the same powers. I mean, what guarantee is it that when Daisy breaks out of her cocoon, she has the quake powers-maybe she breathes fire or something instead.

I don't think they'd go down that route, but I was wondering nonetheless.\

In regards to Mace flatlining for real-it seemed that Aida seemed a little surprised-like "oh, that wasn't supposed to happen..."

Edited April 22, 2017 by StarBrand

[Chaos Theory]

On 4/19/2017 at 10:39 PM, Enigma X said:

I am also loving this arc but still don't believe that some of the behavior changes were caused by removing one regret. As much as I love this arc, I have a feeling I am going to hate the aftermath of Fitz and Jemma doubting Fitz for what happened.

I kinda do.  In a big picture tv way it is a very good story that has some basis in reality.  One decision can change a life and a destiny.  Asking/Not asking that girl out.   The parent that raises you.  The big moment where you either became a great hero or a mighty villian.

Tge only thing I miss is Skye/Daisy's parents.  Seeing where they would be in a HYDRA ruled world would be interesting.

[Raja]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

 

The only thing I miss is Skye/Daisy's parents.  Seeing where they would be in a HYDRA ruled world would be interesting.

Someone on a podcast said they saw a reference to Dr Whitehall in the fake history text. Considering what Hydra did to her mom from within their secret SHIELD cover story then I am not seeing anything could be worse. I am just assuming the same thing happened and it got her father working on his mini Hulk juice that they gave to May. Daisy gets taken away and is shielded, becomes a hacker and is recruited into Hydra. I don't think the NPC framework Skye knew of her parents and only Ward knew that she carried Inhuman genetic potential.

[Enigma X]

7 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I kinda do.  In a big picture tv way it is a very good story that has some basis in reality.  One decision can change a life and a destiny.  Asking/Not asking that girl out.   The parent that raises you.  The big moment where you either became a great hero or a mighty villian.

Tge only thing I miss is Skye/Daisy's parents.  Seeing where they would be in a HYDRA ruled world would be interesting.

Let me clarify. I think one regret may change a situation. I don't see how Fitz's father being in his life would make him as cold as he is in the Framework. In fact, after meeting his father, he seemed like an ass, but I am not convinced (or we are being told that he was) a huge ass enough for us to get Framework Fitz. Basically, this Framework arc, which I am loving, is a dumbed down explanation of the Butterfly Effect, which I do believe.

[Teitr Styrr]

In Fitz's case, I think it might be a combination of one regret (father) and Aida/Darkhold mucking with stuff (Simmons not being in his life).

[TV Anonymous]

So, Coulson's care about a digital kid causes Mace to die in real life? Nice work, Director.

[Chaos Theory]

I think in the end it's the one regret AND Aida direct interference.  She actively kept people apart who were good influences on each other.  

Edited April 23, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[teenj12]

At first I thought this episode was a little slow, but holy Jesus, the final half with Mace's sacrifice, May's flip, and Daisy undergoing terrigenisis - pure awesomeness. AOS is on fire lately. No wonder the ratings are going up. 

Speaking on Mace, I'm really sad that he was killed off. I grew to really like his character and the way he jived with the rest of the main team.