S02.E21: Deliver Us

[WendyCR72]

A week off before this airs, and from the look of it, the last episode before the finale in the first week of May:

Dr. Rhodes fights to save a mother who's desperate to help her daughter beat cancer. Dr. Charles asks Sarah to conduct his daughter Robin's psych evaluation but has difficulty staying out of the case. When Will and Dr. Manning spend more time together at work, Nina goes to extreme measures to get Will's attention. Meanwhile, Dr. Choi puts pressure on Noah when a residency spot becomes available.

[milner]

Isn't there still s chance that the little girl might      get a bone marrow transplant from a stranger  volunteer donor?

[mysticalflute]

12 minutes ago, milner said:

Isn't there still s chance that the little girl might      get a bone marrow transplant from a stranger  volunteer donor?

That was my thought. I was honestly surprised it didn't end with Manning or Rhodes being a match for her.

[Lady Calypso]

Man, I really hope Will/Nina make it. It is funny that Will actually had no idea that Natalie had feelings for him, or that they're seemingly soulmates. Speaking of, shut up Natalie. You aren't all that, and your "special" relationship with Will is not all that. 

Still don't like April's brother. Yes, he's a shitty doctor. April, just stop. Also Choi, I love you usually but I think you're betting on the wrong horse. I admire that you think that you can help him, but please don't. I really don't want her brother sticking around. But I guess we're stuck with him for some reason. And he'll be with Sarah, which....poor Splendorkable.

Robin's totally crazy and her dad is too. But Sarah? Tone it down 100%. You're still new at psychiatry. You've only been doing it for a few months. You don't know everything, and Robin's your first patient. That being said, Dr. Charles needed to be told to stop. He was pure dad, zero percent doctor then. 

The cases this week were alright. I'm surprised that Connor and Natalie's cases ended the way that it did. 

[UNOSEZ]

Well Noah isnt a shitty doctor I think that was Dr.  Choi's point... Hes the baby of a family and has gotten good at/used to being coddled and helped along the way when he finally got pushed he Came thru...also I'm guessing maybe April and Choi may hook up.... Yes Dr.  Reese prob over reacted... But if I'm a dad and I walk into my kids house and see rat traps set up everywhere along with kitchen knives I'm not taking any precautions especially as there is a family history... Ugh Dr.  Manning being a pushy doctor again and then messing with Will's head.. Good for him to not take the bait.. Of course I'm sure jay and Nat will have a grand time and that may cause troubles down the road... All in all good epi... I like the Robin stuff as it gives it a bit of serialization 

[mysticalflute]

I can understand both sides of the argument when it comes to Robin.

Yes, Dr. Charles is her father, and obviously any decent parent is going to be hopelessly worried about their child and try to check in on how their treatment is going, but on the other hand, Robin is an adult and has confidentiality laws protecting her. Sarah had every right to be angry with him for going above her head when it was her patient... and she was also right when it came to gaining Robin's trust before either of them making a decision to commit/not commit. I'm sure Sarah would have committed her had she been able to break through with Robin. Now? Who knows what'll happen.

[Fostersmom]

I'm glad they worked on Natalie's patient for a whole 14 seconds before pronouncing him dead. 30 seconds wouldn't have been enough.

Noah is a waste of space and a lazy, shitty student. Choi just needs to cut bait and run on that one.

The less said about Dr. Charles and his daughter, the better.

[Lady Calypso]

9 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Well Noah isnt a shitty doctor I think that was Dr.  Choi's point... Hes the baby of a family and has gotten good at/used to being coddled and helped along the way when he finally got pushed he Came thru..

I think my issue is that they've taken too damn long for me to care. Noah's been around since the pilot. We have not seen him make any progress until now. Them now probably wanting him to be a series regular next season means that they're inserting him into random plots to make us care. His love interest arc with Sarah and this mentorship with Choi doesn't work because they've done no build up to it. His relationship with April has been fairly consistent, at least, but it will always annoy me when April blindly defends her brother to other people and then half ass reprimand him behind closed doors. He should remain a recurring character, at best, but all I see is them setting up a series regular status instead of doing it with Jeff. 

[watcher1006]

Regarding the story of the pregnant mother with the weak heart and the cancer-stricken daughter, I think the outcome was the one most likely to happen. The mother could be saved, the fetus not, although Dr. Rhodes did all he could. While it was sad I think there was a realism to it as opposed to him being some kind of super-surgeon pulling off the impossible.

I don't think Will Halstead had to apologize to Natalie about what Nina did express delivering the autopsy report. The doctor was going to see it soon enough. She was certainly upset about seeing the results but seemed to shrug off the way she received them. Sure, Will could confront Nina and ask "What's up?" but it was unnecessary and awkward for him to bring it up with Natalie. Unless of course he WANTED a pretext to talk to her about their relationship or lack thereof. I for one don't care to see a romance develop between them.

And then there was another moment shown between Natalie and Jay right afterwards. The writers can't seriously be thinking about a cross-series romance between the two, can they? It's still Jay and Erin over on Chicago P.D. - or is it not?

[Sandman]

Noah may not be a shitty doctor, but he's a damned poor excuse for a human being. I loved Sarah's response to Noah's trash-talking Splendorkable -- she just turned around and walked away. Hee.

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think my issue is that they've taken too damn long for me to care. Noah's been around since the pilot. We have not seen him make any progress until now. Them now probably wanting him to be a series regular next season means that they're inserting him into random plots to make us care.

Exactly.

But Stohl's "yearly" power trip? What? No: that guy doesn't confine it to a singular annual event.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Sandman

[Fireball]

Dr. Charles-- Royally pissed me off. Everything he did this episode was wrong on so many levels. At the end when he was upset that he had ruined his relationship with his daughter, I really had no sympathy for him. I'm glad that Sarah told him off

Sarah-- When did she become a robot? She has such a deadpan voice and expression now. Also I guess it's inevitable that Sarah & Noah will happen--barf 

Noah-- He's totally the guy who's parents did his homework for him. Oh and when someone says "Impress me" they don't mean run to the nearest resident and get them to help you. Noah totally wanted Choi to just give him the answer. 

April--I was really happy when she told Noah that she wasn't going to do what he asked and then she went and talked to Choi. Seriously April just stop.

Choi--I hated that his only storyline this episode was to be a Cheer Leader for Noah. Noah is not a good doctor and Choi wanting to mentor him is just weird.

Robin--This crazy story line just isn't working for me; maybe if they had shown some indications before that something wasn't quite right with Robin. But nope she seemed fine until bam look she's cray cray. It just feels to me that the writers decided Robin needs to go and this is how they are writing her off.

The Apartment-- wow that was a lot of rat traps! Also what was with the tin foil? 

Nina-- They continue to throw her under the bus. However, she did admit like an adult why she did what she did. So maybe that's something. 

Natalie--I could write a ton about her, but I'll just say ugh so now they have something "special"? It wasn't something special when she wasn't interested or when she was dating Jeff. Just ugh

Will-- I'm so glad he shut down Natalie "We are just good friends". I'm also glad that he realized that he needed to spend time with Nina and not go to that hockey game.

Jay--what the heck-- why did he invite Natalie? I guess we're suppose to infer that Natalie and Will are just such good friends that she's hung out with Jay before.  Hopefully the writers don't hook them up to cause problems between Will & Jay. 

Jeff--Please come back from 'Ex-Lovers Island'; you're 10 times the doctor that Noah is.

[SunnyBeBe]

I actually don't mind Natalie so much as a doctor, but, in the romance department, I just can't stand her.  I was glad that she got shut down by Will, but, that was just a tease.  It'll turn out different and I hate that.  

I really like Dr. Charles and his approach may have been off base, but, he's still my favorite cast member.  As for Sarah....OMG.  She annoys me to no end.  Didn't she recently almost have a breakdown over not being reactive enough to a couple of people who killed themselves?  I'm not sure how stable she is. I don't see her working in psychiatry at all.  

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I actually don't mind Natalie so much as a doctor, but, in the romance department, I just can't stand her.  I was glad that she got shut down by Will, but, that was just a tease.  It'll turn out different and I hate that.  

Lucky you, because I can't stand her as a doctor! She shows all her cards when talking to patients and she can't seem to hide her disgust whenever she disagrees with a patient. Actually, that being said, I loved the scene with the cancer daughter this episode, so I want more of THAT Natalie. 

19 minutes ago, Fireball said:

Robin--This crazy story line just isn't working for me; maybe if they had shown some indications before that something wasn't quite right with Robin. But nope she seemed fine until bam look she's cray cray. It just feels to me that the writers decided Robin needs to go and this is how they are writing her off.

Yeah, they had no lead up to it. Unless she has a bug that caused her to go crazy, then it just doesn't make sense. Even as a 25 year old, there's usually more signs. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Actually, I thought that some forms of mental illness do suddenly appear when a person is in their early to mid twenties.  It's out of no where.  I still suspect that it'll turn out to be some kind of rare, medical condition, like a parasite in her eardrum or something like that which explains her symptoms and that can diagnosed and cured.  And if not......it's going to challenging, because severe mental illness may disable her. Here's a link about it.

 

https://psychcentral.com/lib/paranoid-schizophrenia/

[Fireball]

20 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Lucky you, because I can't stand her as a doctor! She shows all her cards when talking to patients and she can't seem to hide her disgust whenever she disagrees with a patient. Actually, that being said, I loved the scene with the cancer daughter this episode, so I want more of THAT Natalie. 

That I have to say is/was Natalie's best scene! She wasn't judgmental, she didn't lecture, and she wasn't wearing her emotions on her sleeve. Lets have more of that Natalie.  

 

So question: why was Natalie consulting on the mother's case? Was it because she treated the daughter when she collapsed? I really didn't understand why all of a sudden Natalie was telling Connor "We can save them both!". Or did I miss something and Natalie was always on the case?

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, watcher1006 said:

Regarding the story of the pregnant mother with the weak heart and the cancer-stricken daughter...

I hate the story-lines wherein the patient comes in all sick and sorrowful, and then refuses treatment.  That's why I couldn't be a doctor, because if that happened to me, I'd be "Well, if you are going to refuse the treatment we're offering you, call a taxi and fuck off home!"

Edited April 28, 2017 by Netfoot

[Xantar]

I'm just glad Natalie didn't bite someone's head off for being an insufficient parent in her eyes.

The cancer family in general is going to need years of therapy. The mother needs to learn that a failed pregnancy is not her fault. Both parents need to learn how to pay attention to their baby son. Even if the daughter lives, she's going to need mountains of therapy to deal with the knowledge that her sibling was essentially created to be her marrow donor. I get that parents want to do everything they can, but the cost is not going to be purely physical or financial for them.

1 hour ago, watcher1006 said:

And then there was another moment shown between Natalie and Jay right afterwards. The writers can't seriously be thinking about a cross-series romance between the two, can they? It's still Jay and Erin over on Chicago P.D. - or is it not?

Erin and Jay are taking a break because he needs to "sort some stuff out." So far, absolutely nothing else has happened with them. To me, there's every indication that the writers wanted to break them up for a bit because they think stable, loving relationships are boring (ugh). However, there's been no hint so far that either of them are seeking anybody else out. I will honestly be surprised if Jay and Natalie hook up because there has been no groundwork laid for that, and whatever else you might say about the writers, they generally let you know ahead of time when they're pushing two characters together.

[UNOSEZ]

I like choi being a mentor to noah as he desperately needs somebody to light a fire under him... Also loved Sarah just walking away from him... I don't mind him trying to get at her though shes adorable... I don't get ppl saying they need more build up for certain storylines. .robin seemed OK but it has been known that Charles has some Fam mental issues and she always presented as a bit off and now is much worse... Noah seemed like a coddled baby from the first tine he showed up to now... Manning to me always seemed to know will cared about her but just didn't want to do anything about it until now... If anything came out of the blue it was Jeff and Manning and that's already over

[Mrs Shibbles]

Ugh, I think rewatching E.R. has ruined this show for me. So much eye rolling. 

Dr Charles snooping on his daughter's treatment  is extremely inappropriate and a huge liability for the hospital.

[Tiger]

20 minutes ago, Mrs Shibbles said:

Ugh, I think rewatching E.R. has ruined this show for me. So much eye rolling. 

Dr Charles snooping on his daughter's treatment  is extremely inappropriate and a huge liability for the hospital.

As I've posted before, this show desperatly wants to be the next ER but totally fails at both the single episode procedural aspect and the episode-to-episode character building aspect.

The Robin is crazy story, Noah in general, and Nat/Halstead just arent working, yet those are the horses its riding for the finale and into next season.  

Edited April 28, 2017 by Tiger

[statsgirl]

What is this show doing?  They're spending so much time focusing on characters I don't like (Noah, Manning) and messing up ones I do (Charles, Reese) that it's hard not to be upset at it.

Noah remains a sucky med student.  Does it not occur to him to do a detailed history with the patient?  Yes, once he actually spoke to the guy he realized he could get the info from his fitbit but jeez, that's not rocket science,  it's Intro Med 101.  Noah keeps wanting other people to do his work for him, April and Will last season, Choi and Reese now, and it makes him a very unappealing character.  Not happy I'm stuck with him next season.

Manning was actually a decent doctor this week, in spite of not catching the embolism.  She was too intrusive with the family, which is her SOP, but good with the little girl. My only problem with that scene was she shouldn't have told her that her parents love her brother too, because duh, kids aren't stupid. A better way would have been to say "I know they're spending all their time thinking about you and the baby right now but when you're better, they'll show your brother that they love him too.  You're a good sister to worry about him."

But then Manning ruined it by being needy with Will and her dead patient.  Worse, at the end she started on about the special relationship she has with Will and if her boyfriend had that with someone else she would be jealous too.  Thank goodness Will remains clueless because I think making a play for someone else's boyfriend, especially after you've already rejected him, is the lowest of the low.

The Robin storyline is just being really badly done.  First, she's an epidemiologist so why is no one looking at a physical cause, like a parasite, as an explanation for what's going on with her?

Second, can they get a real therapist to go over the writing for Reese?  You never say "Do you want to tell me about ....." because the answer usually is "no', especially with an involuntary patient.  A better question is "Can  you tell me about..?"

Hey, Dr. Charles, instead of sneaking into Reese's notes, how about getting a real psychiatrist to treat your daughter?  I can't believe any doctor would be okay with a first year resident treating a family member when the stakes are so great.  Also, hospitalizing her at this point seems unnecessary.  She's delusional, not dangerous.

[statsgirl]

7 hours ago, Fireball said:

Jay--what the heck-- why did he invite Natalie? I guess we're suppose to infer that Natalie and Will are just such good friends that she's hung out with Jay before.  Hopefully the writers don't hook them up to cause problems between Will & Jay. 

Jeff--Please come back from 'Ex-Lovers Island'; you're 10 times the doctor that Noah is.

I so agree about Jeff.

I think Natalie going to the game with Jay was about further keeping her from her true love Will.  It's the old OTP stall, although in this case I don't mind it.

I liked Nina going to Will and telling him that yes, she was jealous of his relationship with Natalie.  There's been very little of that kind of maturity in the Manstead storyline.

I was pleasantly surprised that Will opted to spend time with Nina instead of going with Jay. Maybe he really does care about her?  He's still rather have Natalie though. I've given up hoping that Will/Nina is endgame and at this point I just want Nina back next season.

18 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Well Noah isnt a shitty doctor I think that was Dr.  Choi's point... Hes the baby of a family and has gotten good at/used to being coddled and helped along the way when he finally got pushed he Came thru

I think this is what the show was going for, and it explains why he's suddenly nice to April instead of emotionally beating her up as he did last season. But as @Lady Calypso said, they've spent too long on his screw-ups and him taking advantage of people around him and there's nothing left for me to root for at this point.  Having him insult Splendorkable was a bad move because I like Splendorkable so I'm not going to like Noah more because he was nasty about a character I like.

[Fireball]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

The Robin storyline is just being really badly done.  First, she's an epidemiologist so why is no one looking at a physical cause, like a parasite, as an explanation for what's going on with her?

Responding to the bolded--- Because everyone is stupid. Seriously, it really should be the first thing they look at, but noooo we need drama. I can see this story going different ways depending on if Robin will be coming back next season. 

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Thank goodness Will remains clueless because I think making a play for someone else's boyfriend, especially after you've already rejected him, is the lowest of the low.

I agree completely! I've said this before, but why is Natalie all of a sudden interested in Will? I hate the whole cliché of "I didn't realize I loved him until he wasn't available."

[SnarkyShark]

I'm frustrated because this show keeps pushing storylines I don't like. The episodes from later in this season have all felt very forced, making it hard for me to watch. I'm just not feeling Manstead, but the show will continue to force it down my throat. To me, it seems like Will and Natalie don't have a lot of romantic chemistry. They would make a boring couple because the only reason they are together is that it is supposed to be that way. I find them more interesting as friends.

I still don't like Noah. His personality and attitude frustrate me. He has this air of entitlement about him and it doesn't seem like he is willing to work hard to deliver good care. I'm fine with him being more lighthearted than other characters, but he needs to grow up and take his responsibilities seriously. Becoming a doctor takes work, and Noah will never learn if he expects others to tell him the answer. His lack of maturity is exhausting. The job requires focus and knowledge. True confidence will come with experience. I am waiting for him to be more humble about how much he has to learn. 

I'm begging at this point. PLEASE DON'T PUT NOAH AND SARAH TOGETHER! DON'T YOU DARE! Personality-wise, the two are total opposites that will not mesh well together. They have a more blatant lack of chemistry and would make a completely uninteresting couple that does not adequately compliment each other. In contrast, Sarah and the lovely Splendorkable already compliment each other. Both are fairly serious people who match each other intellectually. Splendorkable balances out Sarah by being calm and patient when she is stressed and anxious. He has this quiet strength and confidence that makes him a great rock for Sarah. More importantly, I see an aspect of maturity in their relationship. They respect and appreciate each other as individuals and give the other space to be themselves. It frustrates me that this show seems to have something against stable relationships. I (obviously) like several aspects of the Sarah/Splendorkable relationship, and I wish the show would let it progress naturally rather than throwing out a good foundations in favor of a new storyline. Honestly, if they want a new relationship storyline I would prefer they pair just about anybody other than Noah and Sarah because they are the last two I could see as a couple.

On another note, it doesn't seem appropriate for Robin to be Sarah's patient. There are too many preexisting personal relationships between Robin, Sarah, and Dr. Charles that make the dynamics more complicated. Given fact that this is likely to be a complicated case, it would be a better idea for Robin to go to an outside psychologist who is more experienced. Such an individual could better assert their authority and manage the challenges of Robin and Dr. Charles' relationship. With Reese being under Dr. Charles for her residency, he has serious potential to undermine her whereas an experienced outsider might better command Dr. Charles' respect.

[weathered1]

To all of you talking about how this show keeps pushing storylines you dislike, you can add me to your ranks. I really don't understand what the thinking behind this is, with Manning, Manning/Halstead, Noah, and Robin. They are focusing on the worst and weakest aspects of the show, and it's really dragging it down, imo. 

Manning continues to be insufferable in every possible way, and Halstead sort of bounces between being a jerk, being oblivious, and being an oblivious jerk. These Jay/Natalie moments are giving me a bad feeling. Either they fully intend to go there (which I would hate) or they'll make it appear that they have, just so Halstead can make some sort of jealous scene (which Nina will undoubtedly witness). Speaking of Nina, I don't care how much they throw her under the bus, I will never, ever think she is in the wrong. Ever. I want her to dump the loser; I want her to stay on the show; and I want her to find an infinitely better love interest. 

The Robin story is just . . . not good. I can't fault the actors; it's the writing that is absolutely atrocious. 

The cancer family story - I agree that the entire family will need years of therapy after everything that happened. 

[spunky]

I give major points to Will for shutting Natalie down. No Natalie he's not your soul mate, now keep it moving. I loved April finally coming down on her brother. I agree with Dr.Choi, Noah has potential, but is so used to being cuddled that he expects everything to be handed to him. I understand the mother's dilemma, but hopefully there is someone who is her match.

Dr. Charles was dead wrong for what he did. Not only did he violate HIPPA by looking into his daughter's medical file without her consent, he made rash decisions. If I were Sara I would've confronted him too.

Can Dr. Stohl please go away. The man is nothing more than a condescending jerk. 

[bioprof]

Agree with so  many of you here about the storylines....we DON'T CARE ABOUT THESE BORING PEOPLE ...and most of them are terrible actors ( looking at you, Natalie). But...the Robin thing:  first, I thought there was a hint of something when Dr. Charles put off talking to Rhodes....seemed like Charles feared he knew exactly what was happening ( past history, maybe....) and didn't want to disclose it. Second:  just because Robin's an epidemiologist ( in Chicago ) doesn't mean she's up close & personal with the "bugs".  Many ( certainly not all ) epidemiologists are primarily data crunchers working inside offices with computers ( valuable & essential work...not putting it down!! ).  The lab work is done elsewhere ( different level labs all around the country ) . Doesn't mean that a parasite , virus, etc. cause can't be possible, but Charles' reaction to her symptoms early on was very telling. I think he'd be the first to turn over any rock looking for a microbial cause....he clearly loves ( and worries about ) his daughter very much...he would not ignore this "more curable" avenue if he thought it was feasible.  But....we'll see.....these writers have clearly demonstrated they don't necessarily "need no stinkin' science" to push storylines forward.

[starri]

Robyn has anti-NMDA encephalitis, I'm calling it now.

I was actually completely on Sarah's side in her scene with Dr. Charles.  I know I'm the minority, but she was doing everything right, and then he kneecapped her, without even talking to her or the mysterious other attending first.  One does not usually pop off at their attending like that, but she's was also feeling like he used her.

Noah is a waste of time and space and if they give him a residency slot that could go to someone who is actually competent, or hell, even wants to be a doctor, they need to have him massively screw up next season and then try and figure out how to redeem him.

Nina and Will acted like adults!  Shame it's going to be for nothing in the end.

Hooboy, here I go:  five year survival for LVADs isn't great.  It's entirely possible that the little brother will end up losing both his sister AND his mom at the end.  Also, Amy Schumer looked far enough along that they could have delivered the baby, frankly.

[statsgirl]

11 minutes ago, starri said:

Also, Amy Schumer looked far enough along that they could have delivered the baby, frankly.

But then there wouldn't have been the DRAHMAH.

Interesting, there was a study just published that is looking at an external artificial womb for babies between 23 and 28 weeks of gestation when the mother an no longer carry them to give the lungs and other organs time to develop.  The fetus is in a "biobag" and fed and oxygenated through the umbilical chord. It's working on lambs so far but human trials are a bit down the road. Still, it would have solved this family's problem.

3 hours ago, bioprof said:

Charles' reaction to her symptoms early on was very telling. I think he'd be the first to turn over any rock looking for a microbial cause....he clearly loves ( and worries about ) his daughter very much...he would not ignore this "more curable" avenue if he thought it was feasible.

When the only tool you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.  Psychiatry is what he does and as Robin said, there's a history of psychiatric disorders in her family.  If that history is schizophrenia, he's probably been holding his breath all her life hoping she doesn't get it so naturally he'll jump to that conclusion.

Unfortunately even for non-psychiatrists if they don't know what's going on, the default is a psychiatric disorder. There was a case a few years ago at the children's hospital in my city where the doctors diagnosed a young boy who kept throwing up with a psychiatric disorder and made him clean up his vomit as a way to treat him. Turned out he had a twisted guy and died from it.   A former supervisor of mine kept trying to tell the doctors that a patient had a physical, not psychological disorder but they didn't believe her and it wasn't until he had a TIA judging a competition in front of TV cameras that they finally listened.

While Reese was more right than Charles, I still think her method of handling Robin could have been improved on by doing physical tests at the same time as her talk assessment.

[starri]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

The fetus is in a "biobag" and fed and oxygenated through the umbilical chord. It's working on lambs so far but human trials are a bit down the road.

I'm sure the Human Subjects Committee is champing at the bit to approve that one.

I kid, I kid.

[watcher1006]

1 hour ago, starri said:

Hooboy, here I go:  five year survival for LVADs isn't great.  It's entirely possible that the little brother will end up losing both his sister AND his mom at the end.  Also, Amy Schumer looked far enough along that they could have delivered the baby, frankly.

I suppose that a left ventricular device would be a stopgap measure to buy time. The mother will probably have to get a heart transplant at some point.

The mother’s decisions became ever more wild as things went downhill. She was willing to die, or collapse into a vegetative state in order to continue her pregnancy, but without any guarantee that further complications wouldn’t develop that would end the pregnancy anyway. And if she did deliver the baby, there is no assurance that the bone marrow transplant would completely cure her daughter’s condition and for all the days the daughter lived she would have to carry the burden of her mother giving up her life to try and cure her.

I wasn’t actually bothered by Robyn’s psychiatric problem seemingly appearing out of the blue. I’ve heard more than one story about extended family members and former schoolmates who were seemingly fine when I knew them developing psychiatric conditions in adulthood. There could have been signs, perhaps years in advance, but since we don’t see every detail of the character’s lives we wouldn’t necessarily know about them. It was mentioned that there is a family history. It could be an external happenstance that brought it on. It could have been a triggering event or a series of them.

[starri]

22 minutes ago, watcher1006 said:

I suppose that a left ventricular device would be a stopgap measure to buy time. The mother will probably have to get a heart transplant at some point.

Heart transplant wait times are long too.  I dunno, I may be heartless.

It also REALLY bothered me the attitude she was taking toward the baby she was carrying.  It seemed like she only thought of it as spare parts for the daughter.

[Sandman]

On 2017-04-28 at 9:29 AM, Fireball said:

Choi--I hated that his only storyline this episode was to be a Cheer Leader for Noah. Noah is not a good doctor and Choi wanting to mentor him is just weird.

I'm not sure Choi wants to mentor him; I think there's some distance between offering to be a mentor, and not wanting to let someone slide by on the path of least resistance again. I guess we'll see whether they develop more of a mentor-student relationship -- but I'm not sure that'd be a good thing; it doesn't strike me as particularly likely, but then again, this show usually goes with the sentimental option.

[starri]

At least in the beginning, ER tried to get the medicine as accurate as possible while still allowing for drama.

I'm trying to wrap my head around them not wanting to put the mother on bypass to implant the LVAD.  If I was following the justification, they were worried that having to anticoagulate her would be a risk to the fetus...but the treatment for women with blood clots during pregnancy is exactly the same, and unfractionated heparin is such a big molecule, it doesn't really cross the placenta.  And if they'd had to put her on ECMO, that also requires anticoagulation.

I get that I'm not fun to watch medical shows with, but still.

[Artsda]

Seems like they're trying to lead somewhere with Manny & Will's brother from PD? They been interacting every episode for weeks.

[LittleIggy]

Does Costco sell mouse traps in bulk?

[FnkyChkn34]

I only watched this episode after seeing comments on Twitter about Jay and Natalie.  What was that?  Just... no.  I think he only invited her because she was there and the ticket was free and they are supposed to be friends and maybe somehow Jay thinks he can help Natalie and Will get together - but if I'm wrong and it was anything more than that, that's just wrong.  

I don't think the PD and Med writers overlap much, but they should!!  

[Driad]

Cancer family: the baby died, correct?  I wonder if a 20+ week fetus had enough bone marrow to save the girl, because they could use all of it if the fetus died. Waited for a character to say something about this but they did not.

[starri]

They could also use cord blood.

[Fireball]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 8:20 AM, FnkyChkn34 said:

I only watched this episode after seeing comments on Twitter about Jay and Natalie.  What was that?  Just... no.  I think he only invited her because she was there and the ticket was free and they are supposed to be friends and maybe somehow Jay thinks he can help Natalie and Will get together - but if I'm wrong and it was anything more than that, that's just wrong.  

I found the scene weird. Why wouldn't Jay just text one of his buddies and see if they wanted to go to a Hockey game? Instead he asks his bothers coworker that he vaguely knows; I guess we're suppose to assume that Jay & Natalie are friends but I thought that it was weird. I'm guessing this will lead to Will misunderstanding some scene between Jay & Natalie which will help Will realize that Natalie is actually the one he really loves. ugh the whole thing is straight out of a soap opera. 

 

Did it annoy anyone else that Natalie didn't even ask her MIL if it was ok for her to leave Owen with her for the night? Yes, Owen would be sleep, but if Natalie told her MIL that she would pick Owen up after work then it was beyond rude of Natalie to agree to go to the hockey game without talking with the MIL first.

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, Fireball said:

I found the scene weird. Why wouldn't Jay just text one of his buddies and see if they wanted to go to a Hockey game? Instead he asks his bothers coworker that he vaguely knows; I guess we're suppose to assume that Jay & Natalie are friends but I thought that it was weird. I'm guessing this will lead to Will misunderstanding some scene between Jay & Natalie which will help Will realize that Natalie is actually the one he really loves. ugh the whole thing is straight out of a soap opera. 

 

Did it annoy anyone else that Natalie didn't even ask her MIL if it was ok for her to leave Owen with her for the night? Yes, Owen would be sleep, but if Natalie told her MIL that she would pick Owen up after work then it was beyond rude of Natalie to agree to go to the hockey game without talking with the MIL first.

Right, I think it was implied that they were under a time crunch, but all he had to do was tell someone to meet him there.

As for the MIL, I guess I just assumed that the arrangement was already for Owen to spend the night, so I thought nothing of it.  I don't really pay attention to things like that, and like I mentioned above, I'm not entirely invested in this show.  I don't know all histories, past storylines, etc.

[statsgirl]

I can't imagine why Choi would want to mentor Noah.  If it were me, I'd be fed up with him being such a dumbass when his sister deserves better.  Maybe that's why he finally wanted to push Noah to stand up by himself.

On 2017-04-29 at 7:21 PM, starri said:

At least in the beginning, ER tried to get the medicine as accurate as possible while still allowing for drama.

Love's Labors Lost , episode 1x19 -- Mark, the senior ER resident, supervises a woman giving birth who gets into trouble because there are no obstetricians or OB residents in the entire hospital or any competent doctor really.  She dies, the legal case goes on the next four episodes as Mark is  sued for causing her death through incompetence. Rivals the worst Grey's Anatomy storyline for unnecessary drama.

[greyhorse]

On 5/2/2017 at 8:47 PM, statsgirl said:

I can't imagine why Choi would want to mentor Noah.  If it were me, I'd be fed up with him being such a dumbass when his sister deserves better.  Maybe that's why he finally wanted to push Noah to stand up by himself.

Love's Labors Lost , episode 1x19 -- Mark, the senior ER resident, supervises a woman giving birth who gets into trouble because there are no obstetricians or OB residents in the entire hospital or any competent doctor really.  She dies, the legal case goes on the next four episodes as Mark is  sued for causing her death through incompetence. Rivals the worst Grey's Anatomy storyline for unnecessary drama.

Chiming in late here too, but I can't stand Noah.  But that's probably the writer's intent.  When we first met him, he was the partying wannabe who was trying to get in tight with April's professional football player boyfriend's crew.  And every time we see him, he's trying to skate by with doing as little as possible.  There is no comparison between him and ER's medical student John Carter, who was just naive but wanted to learn and make himself into a better doctor.  Noah is that kid in your class that you love to hate.  You know he's lazy, yet somehow he does stuff like cardiovert that patient and then the head attending is impressed.  Which I don't really understand what the big deal was.  That guy had an arrhythmia, somehow his iPhone let Noah figure that out (did he only have an arrhythmia when he exercised?), he shocks him, and abracadabra - he's cured!  I'm hoping that Noah doesn't stick around but I fear he will.

That ER episode was indeed widely criticized.  The woman had preeclampsia - high blood pressure in pregnancy - and it was just a disaster.  What I don't understand here is why the couple didn't have the child through a surrogate if they knew she was so high risk to die due to her heart.  That of course wouldn't make for dramatic tv.

[starri]

8 minutes ago, greyhorse said:

That guy had an arrhythmia, somehow his iPhone let Noah figure that out (did he only have an arrhythmia when he exercised?), he shocks him, and abracadabra - he's cured!  I'm hoping that Noah doesn't stick around but I fear he will.

I've been trying to figure out how he could diagnose off of the Fitbit.  I don't have a separate fitness tracker appendage, but the health data that my phone records does rate but not rhythm, and you can't diagnose an arrhythmia from a rate.  And if you did use the data from a non-approved medical device to guide your treatment, hello, lawsuit.

[crowsworks]

On 4/29/2017 at 7:21 PM, starri said:

At least in the beginning, ER tried to get the medicine as accurate as possible while still allowing for drama.

I'm trying to wrap my head around them not wanting to put the mother on bypass to implant the LVAD.  If I was following the justification, they were worried that having to anticoagulate her would be a risk to the fetus...but the treatment for women with blood clots during pregnancy is exactly the same, and unfractionated heparin is such a big molecule, it doesn't really cross the placenta.  And if they'd had to put her on ECMO, that also requires anticoagulation.

I get that I'm not fun to watch medical shows with, but still.

 

I was wondering if any medical person reading could tell me why they still couldn't try to harvest stem cells or even marrow from the dead baby. 

[crowsworks]

13 hours ago, greyhorse said:

Love's Labors Lost , episode 1x19 -- Mark, the senior ER resident, supervises a woman giving birth who gets into trouble because there are no obstetricians or OB residents in the entire hospital or any competent doctor really.  She dies, the legal case goes on the next four episodes as Mark is  sued for causing her death through incompetence. Rivals the worst Grey's Anatomy storyline for unnecessary drama.

 

I thought it was that the baby was in the canal and it was too late for a c-section...but it wouldn't come out the rest of the way and caused hemorrhaging.... back in the day it was called 'choose one'. 

[statsgirl]

I remember it as being preeclampsia as @greyhorse said.  The whole problem was that there was no OB or OB resident or any competent doctor available (eyeroll) so it was left to an ER resident who made a bunch of mistakes.

Edited May 5, 2017 by statsgirl

[FnkyChkn34]

12 hours ago, crowsworks said:

I was wondering if any medical person reading could tell me why they still couldn't try to harvest stem cells or even marrow from the dead baby. 

I'm definitely not a medical person, but maybe it was because the baby wasn't developed enough yet?  No idea, just a guess.

[TobinAlbers]

Absolutely LOVED the look on Nina's face when she turned around on Will after he asked her if she had it in for Natalie. That expression could only be read as 'The %$#@ you just say to me?' Girlfriend was DONE.

I wonder if anyone asked Colin 'Has Patty ever looked at you like that? And if so how did you survive what happened next?' Heh.

[Chas411]

Quote

t's still Jay and Erin over on Chicago P.D. - or is it not?

They're on a break but if this is actually leading to something between Jay and Natalie then Jay is coming off as an asshole.

I can't believe Robin is only supposed to be 25. I'd have said 30. That's my only comment on the awful storyline.