Home Fires - General Discussion

[attica]

Well, if I overstate, so then does wikipedia:

Historically, in most cultures, married women had very few rights of their own, being considered, along with the family's children, the property of the husband; as such, they could not own or inherit property, or represent themselves legally (see for example coverture). In Europe, the United States, and other places in the developed world, beginning in the late 19th century and lasting through the 21st century, marriage has undergone gradual legal changes, aimed at improving the rights of the wife. These changes included giving wives legal identities of their own, abolishing the right of husbands to physically discipline their wives, giving wives property rights, liberalizing divorce laws, providing wives with reproductive rights of their own, and requiring a wife's consent when sexual relations occur. These changes have occurred primarily in Western countries. In the 21st century, there continue to be controversies regarding the legal status of married women, legal acceptance of or leniency towards violence within marriage (especially sexual violence), traditional marriage customs such as dowry and bride price, forced marriage, marriageable age, and criminalization of consensual behaviors such as premarital and extramarital sex.

 

Getting free labor out of a wife (either to keep house/rear children, work the plow, or staff the till at the shop)  is a thing that has happened, and still does, frankly.  That many such marriages are affectionate and that the involved parties are consensual and content doesn't really undermine my point. In this show alone, we see the butcher's wife manning the counter. We see the farmer's wife working the farm. We see the doctor's wife handing appointments and billing. Sure, these are portrayed as loving partnerships, an economist sees them as free labor. For although the profits of the business redound to the family, it would be inconceivable, downright laughable! that an unhappy wife could say to her husband, "I'm done. Buy me out of the business." She might leave, but she'd leave with nothing.

 

To your point,women owning businesses historically happens when a husband is absent or dead. Which, yes, means that it is not unheard of. (Hi, Mrs. Scotlock!) Also common was that single women who went out on their own often cast themselves as widows so as to be employable. women writers who wanted to be published took on male pseudonyms (such as all of the Brontes)  or disguised their sex by using initials (Oh, hey, hi, J.K. Rowling!). In my  own lifetime, I have been witness and beneficiary to the sweeping changes to the lot of women. 

 

This show is set 20 years before the feminist movement. The social and economic self-sufficiency realized by (western) women during WW2 -- and then squelched when the men returned home -- is viewed as perhaps the most significant trigger for the movement. 

 

Finally, examples of pop culture aren't necessarily an accurate gauge of the reality of the times. If they were, subsequent generations of ours would believe we coexisted with dinosaurs in amusement parks, even to the point of rebuilding however often they ran amok. :) A scottish ballad that managed to survive down from its oral tradition roots has likely done so not because it's illustrative of its day, but because it is outrageous and therefore more memorable. A song that goes "I got up, I milked the cow, I went to bed, I'll do it all again tomorrow" a) isn't gonna fill your hat at the village fair b) isn't going to be bothered to be passed down. (Working/middle-class dissaffection only became considered art in the mid-20th Century.)

Edited November 29, 2015 by attica

[lucindabelle]

Wikipedia is not exactly a scholarly source. This has wandered far, far off topic. I'll say again that when you say the whole concept of marriage as a partnership is a recent idea and women in the 40s who thought that way, you are overstating. My own family was different from that and they are neither weird nor outliers. I've tried to be polite about all this and please agree to disagree.

Again: I think you overstate. I do not wish to argue about this further. Nothing you could possibly say will have me u know what I know of my own family and culture. I notice in your reply you mentioned the ballad but left that out, this has stopped being friendly.

I think making sweeping generalizations about "people" and using Wikipedia as a backup source is questionable, and I don't really think this sheds light on home fires.

Edited November 30, 2015 by lucindabelle

[Milz]

I just read three biographies/autobiographies that featured English middle-class and upper-class society between 1900 and 1960ish (they all became available in my library queue at the same time, so the common topic was coincidental). I was surprised at how much drinking and carousing and bed-hopping and divorce went on, especially in the supposedly conservative upper classes. The women were not home-bound and docile.

 

"Middle class morals"  which included marital fidelity is often mentioned in a very derisive way in novels of that era.  I think the upper class (then and now) have the fascade of conservative morality and ethos, when in reality they do not.

 

Looking at the divorces of the upper classes from Consuelo Duchess of Marlborough to Frances Work to the whole Cimmie Curzon-Oswald Mosely-Dianna Mitford thing, the upper classes behaved in a very non-conservative way.

 

Here's a post by Venetia Stanley-Smith, whose mother was the daughter of Lord Curzon. http://venetia-international.com/m51_blog.php?p=22231&year=2013&month=05&day=01 It sounds like some debs put out when they came out.....

Edited November 30, 2015 by Milz

[dcalley]

I've started reading the book and thought I'd share a few things I found interesting.

 

The Women's Institute started in Canada almost 20 years before it started in England/Wales and promoted education (practical education, home economics). The author speculates that the British were reluctant to have the WI due to tradition and conservatism and less social equality than was found in Canada. (As we saw on the show, a housemaid and her employer are meant to have equal footing in the WI.)

 

The first president of the National Federation of Women's Institutes (England/Wales and islands) promoted family planning and women's suffrage. The WI itself is nonpolitical and nonsectarian and is pacifist.

 

To set up a WI, a village had to have fewer than 4,000 people.

[dcalley]

I am finishing up the book now. The 1940 ambulance fundraiser is mentioned. Nationally, the WI raised enough for five ambulances, plus one mobile X-ray unit and three smaller, portable X-ray units.
 
As the war went on, the WI membership decreased (from 331,600 in 1939 to 288,000 in 1943), and the average member age rose as women (mostly <30) left to do war work or join the forces.
 
In the 1940s, the WI continued to lobby for issues, such as indoor plumbing and electricity, equal pay, and help for women giving birth at home. The WI surveyed its members for their thoughts on housing design and children's education and even had a few WI women appointed to government housing committees.

[dcalley]

Home Fires has been cancelled (but we still have season 2 to come). This article hints at 

Spoiler

a cliffhanger ending for the series.

Telly Visions

The real Women's Institute is promoting the fan campaign to save the show by tweeting about it and sending jam jars to itv.

[skyways]

Once you see Season 2, you will be banging on Itv's door too. I didn't care for Series 1 but 2 is a big improvement.

[Fiddler1]

On 10/27/2015 at 3:50 PM, pasdetrois said:

Each time I view the title of this show I see Home Fries. Yum.

I binge watched nearly all of Season 1 last night and I kept thinking that every single time the title came up!  Then today I wanted to watch the last episode and blanked out on the name of the program.  My thought process went: "Land Girls.....no....it was something to do with food.   Um...OH!  I know...Hash Browns!  NO -- Home Fries -- HOME FIRES!" 

I guess the UK got Season 2 already but I can't find anything for us in the US beside a vague "maybe in the Fall"....anybody know?

One thing I have to add:  any time I watch ANY British program I end up pausing a dozen times to IMDB people because "I know them from something!"  I watched Home Fires on Amazon on my computer and found they have something called XRay where you just touch your cursor and it brings up a little side panel with who is in that scene, and if you click on it, you get a short bio, filmography, etc.  Saved me probably 15 trips to IMDB while I watched!

[lidarose9]

Enjoying very much. Reminds me of Foyle's War but focusing on women rather than crime. One quibble: when the bicycle postman (forget his name) explains why he doesn't want to fight, he talks about the letters his father wrote from "the first war" describing his PTSD. This would never have happened. All correspondence to/from the soldiers was heavily censored. It was part of the commanding officer's duty to read all the letters and strike out anything specific or "disloyal". The army provided postcards where a man could check boxes to indicate that he was alive and in good health in an unspecified location as of X date, providing the minimal amount of info to relieve family's worries while giving absolutely nothing else away. Anything "bad for morale" was strictly forbidden, both in public life and in private. By the last couple years of the war, it was nearly considered criminal to criticize the war. 

My ear for British accents is very bad but from time to time, I think I hear a particular accent, sort of clipped. Is there a Cheshire accent? And are there certain actors who are doing it better than others? 

[JudyObscure]

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2015 at 8:22 AM, attica said:

Getting free labor out of a wife (either to keep house/rear children, work the plow, or staff the till at the shop)  is a thing that has happened, and still does, frankly.  That many such marriages are affectionate and that the involved parties are consensual and content doesn't really undermine my point. In this show alone, we see the butcher's wife manning the counter. We see the farmer's wife working the farm. We see the doctor's wife handing appointments and billing. Sure, these are portrayed as loving partnerships, an economist sees them as free labor. For although the profits of the business redound to the family, it would be inconceivable, downright laughable! that an unhappy wife could say to her husband, "I'm done. Buy me out of the business." She might leave, but she'd leave with nothing.

Isn't she getting free labor out of her husband?  Particularly back when 80% of all families were farmers, it's true he didn't pay her for cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, canning, and sewing, but she didn't pay him for going outside in Minnesota in 20 below weather, or in Mississippi 100 degree weather to feed animals, plow and chop wood all day. If I had to pick one person to say the other was "getting free labor,"  I would have to say it was her in every case you mentioned.  For example, the doctor's wife is  living a more comfortable life than most of the people in town but she isn't the one who worked for that degree or is up all night delivering babies and performing emergency amputations.

[SusanSunflower]

It is confusing ... On another forum I recent read half a dozen posts by women whose mothers and grandmothers were raised "on the farm" ... some back at the turn of last century. The women were perpetual motion machines (just like the men) 24/07/365 with women also dealing with serial pregnancies, miscarriages and child mortality (until vaccinations were widely available; accidents and infections/respiratory illness still took a toll)... just miserable 

It startled me, because born in 1952, raised in Southern California, I recall a 4th or 5th grade teacher saying (I think) that a milestone had been reached and for the first time less than 50% of Americans work in agriculture/lived on the farm. ... while in the city -- post-war -- the expectation was still (apparently briefly in historical sense) women were "not supposed to work outside the home" ... because (if for no other reason) it "emasculated" the husband (Freud was heyday) by suggesting "he could not adequately provide" ... very funny to realize how short that "women don't work outside the home" taboo lasted... although by the time my younger (very conformist brother) married and had kids, he was adamant that his wife should not work the better to care for the kids ... our mother was a TV professional and we both grew up with "hired care" to accommodate her careers (and our father's demands that she go back to work). 

I've never been "supported" financially, never married or had kids ... but the idea of being house-bound with kids always sounded suffocating to me.  Life on the farm sounds exhausting and brain-deadening (if just from the endless necessity to keep moving and doing overwhelming any "inner" or "personal" life). 

[dcalley]

The final season airs on PBS Sundays, April 2-May 7, 9-10 p.m. ET (check local listings).

http://www.pbs.org/about/blogs/news/pbs-announces-mid-season-schedule/

[mojito]

Waiting for the return of this show is like waiting for Martin to return. You have to be vigilant or you might miss it.

[zoey1996]

It's in my local listings for tonight, along with Call the Midwife and the re-airing of Wolf Hall!  So eager for these to return!

[sinycalone]

Just watched the first episode of Season 2 on PBS.  Very good indeed.

[abbyzenn]

Glad to see this show back but it's been so long that I spent most of the show figuring out who was who and their story line. 

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, abbyzenn said:

Glad to see this show back but it's been so long that I spent most of the show figuring out who was who and their story line. 

I know, it was a bit like my spotty recollections at high school reunions.  Oh there's the farmer who can't read, her husband sent her a postcard saying, "I'm alive."  Maybe he doesn't know she's learned how.  There's the conscientious objector and his girlfriend who works for the president of the WI.  Guess the town isn't still trying to tar and white feather him.  Oh yes, I forgot the president of the WI has a husband -- whoops, he's gone.

I'm glad the woman who got on the wrong side of the law to pay her dog's vet bills is going to work for the good side now.  I like her.  I also like her roommate, the teacher.  Too bad about the nice German dressmaker.  What will happen to the glamourous dress she's been making for the domestic abuse victim?  I want her to wear it for the handsome soldier before her husband comes home and kills them both.

The butcher's wife who is going insane  worrying about her son, and the butcher himself who is equally worried but less  vocal about it.  Awww.

The story I remember best is the doctor with cancer and his family.  So glad he punched the cad who seduced his daughter and the cad's subordinates were watching and laughing.  Ha! I would pity him but it's not in my gift.

[Eliza422]

The dressmaker was Italian, not german.

i too was trying to remember who was who and where they left off. Glad it's back!

 

who was the woman in the car accident? I lost track of where he was going in the car.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Eliza422

[JudyObscure]

Oops, sorry.  Even though my TV has terrible sound I did hear all the references to Mussolini.  Duh, me.

[sinycalone]

It was a little confusing at first trying to pinpoint each character...and their history....but once I was past that, I really enjoyed the show.  

I have no clue either who the woman in the car was....help!

[Eliza422]

5 hours ago, sinycalone said:

It was a little confusing at first trying to pinpoint each character...and their history....but once I was past that, I really enjoyed the show.  

I have no clue either who the woman in the car was....help!

It would have been nice to have some kind of "here's where we stand" at the beginning of the episode. For example, when I saw the blond accountant at the bus stop I was like, wasn't she arrested at the end of the first season? And now she's just walking around? With all the period costumes everyone looks a lot alike so I could have used a refresher course.

[jah1986]

I'm glad to have this show back but I think the main problem with the show is what everyone has mentioned in their posts, we don't really connect with characters.  I remembered who everyone was eventually but at the end when the newly married guy got to the car and kept saying "keep Mrs. Barden away" I was saying who is Mrs. Barden? We don't know any of the characters names. I mean they tell us and use them in the show but we don't or can't remember them. Like the newly married couple and they just calling each other Mr. and Mrs. Whatever I still can't remember and I really like this show.

I thought the woman in the car with Mr. Barden (yay, got one) was the woman his wife said to bring with him to the service if they were running late. Of course I could be wrong.

Of course abusive husband is coming back just as his wife is finding some peace and happiness, ugh.

[BusyOctober]

I know WWII claimed many many lives in England and several villages lost up to 90% of their men (soldiers and civilians).  It was just too much to take that all the menfolk of the main characters were struck down at once! The butcher's son as been MIA since last season and Alison the accountant's husband died a while ago. But tonight Mrs. Barden's husband dies (presumably) in a car wreck, the Vicar is a POW and the Doctor has lung cancer.  The only one who will probably make it back to the village is Bob the Battering Bastard. If Pat thought her life sucked before B the BB went off to war, she is in for a whole new kind of Hell when he comes back in a wheelchair. 

[AllAboutMBTV]

I, too, spent the majority of the episode trying to recall everyone's storylines (I remembered young Mr. Wilson was the postman but not that he was conscientious objector and certainly not that Mrs. Wilson worked for Aunt Rosamunde, er, Mrs. Barden.). So a "Last season on Home Fires..." would not have gone amiss, Miss Linney. Also, not helping -- nearly all the women look (and are styled) largely the same. Only the blonde women (the accountant, the switchboard operator) really stand out. Glad it's back, though. Am I wrong in thinking this is the final season?

[Fireball]

I usually hate when masterpiece does their recap intos, but I felt this show needed it. Like everyone else it took me a bit to remember who was who. When the show cut to the wedding, I thought oh so that's how they are going fix the Laura situation they marry her off. I really thought it was Laura at first.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Fireball

[Fireball]

While I'm glad the show is back, I have this feeling that everything is going to be so predictable. This episode indicated that Bob the Battering Bastard lives (seriously how depressing was that?) and that Laura will become the talk of the town and not in a good way.

I feel like this season Mrs. Barden will

Spoiler

find out that her husband was cheating on her with the women who was in the car.

The pastors' wife will

Spoiler

struggle with her feelings for the Squadron Leader Nick, and feel guilty about said feelings because her husband is a POW.

Pat will

Spoiler

fall in love with Marek.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Fireball

[magdalene]

I am hoping there will be a resolution as the show got cancelled and this second season is the last.

This series is such a soap opera so I am certain that the wife beater will be just fine and return to put a spanner into his wife's promising romance.

[sinycalone]

He's back (Bthe BB)....and I think she's a tougher person this time 'round.  Her scenes tonight and in previews seem to indicate this in any case.

[Brattinella]

My only thoughts so far are:  I hope the snoopy, arrogant and nasty telephone operator AND the nasty, stuck-up and vicious gossip-monger (who can't resist sneering at the "scarlet woman") both get their comeuppance in the woodshed soon.

[Pickles]

So, Mrs. Barden's husband and his passenger BOTH died in the car accident? He was having a long term affair with her (the passenger) and left her 20% of the company. What happens to the 20%, since this woman died too. Or did she not die and I totally missed that? 

I really hope Pat can kick her abusive husband to the curb. But, what future does she have with her soldier boyfriend? 

[AuntiePam]

My problem with keeping the characters straight is that they don't seem to "fit".  The doctor with cancer looks too young to be Laura's father.  Dan -- the soldier returned from Dunkirk -- looks much younger than his wife, and is the boy his brother or his son?  Others have mentioned the similarities between the women -- the hair color and hairstyles make it difficult to keep 'em straight.  Pat and Mrs. Barden and the blonde are easy, but the rest are a bit confusing.

I'm glad Pat is finding a few moments of happiness with her Czech soldier.  It'd be nice if she could stand up to her husband while he's physically unable to hurt her, but he won't be hobbled forever.  Darn it.

[Fireball]

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 4:06 PM, Pickles said:

So, Mrs. Barden's husband and his passenger BOTH died in the car accident? He was having a long term affair with her (the passenger) and left her 20% of the company. What happens to the 20%, since this woman died too. Or did she not die and I totally missed that? 

I have no idea; maybe the husband had a child with the women he was having an affair with and the 20% goes to them. This show is a bit of a soap opera; I can totally see them going that route and having Mrs. Barden

Spoiler

 track down the child and then I guess ask him/her to live with her. I so hope this doesn't happen.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Fireball

[Driad]

I was hoping that by the time BtheBB returned, Pat would go away where he could not find her. I would miss her but she would be better off without him.

Someone please remind me why the Czechs are there?

[AuntiePam]

4 hours ago, Driad said:

Someone please remind me why the Czechs are there?

Were they rescued at Dunkirk with the others?  I don't remember.

I was hoping that Mr. Barden's secret would be that he had a secret child, from an old affair.  But the note with the necklace put paid to that. 

[jah1986]

I just hope there's not secret love child from Mr. Barden and Helen, the long-term affair is bad enough.  I also wonder if the 20% will go back to Mrs. Barden since Helen is dead or if it will go to her next of kin.

[attica]

On 4/10/2017 at 7:31 PM, AuntiePam said:

Dan -- the soldier returned from Dunkirk

His name is Stan.

22 hours ago, Driad said:

Someone please remind me why the Czechs are there?

They were evacuated from France as part of Operation Ariel.

2 hours ago, jah1986 said:

I also wonder if the 20% will go back to Mrs. Barden since Helen is dead or if it will go to her next of kin.

If Helen had no next of kin, the lawyer wouldn't have been so cagey about the disbursement, if there were a disbursement at all.  There will be some family somewhere to make things tearier for Mrs. B, count on it.  I guess I've seen too many soaps in my life, but I called Peter's affair with Helen the minute her name was mentioned in possibly keeping him from the Bell ringing service.

What's the deal with all those box-shaped bags that everybody is carrying?  They don't look like the gas-mask carriers I've seen elsewhere, but I can't figure out what else they might be.

Can I just say how awesome I think Francesca Annis is? She just fills up the frame with her presence. 

[Fireball]

35 minutes ago, attica said:

If Helen had no next of kin, the lawyer wouldn't have been so cagey about the disbursement, if there were a disbursement at all.  There will be some family somewhere to make things tearier for Mrs. B, count on it.  I guess I've seen too many soaps in my life, but I called Peter's affair with Helen the minute her name was mentioned in possibly keeping him from the Bell ringing service.

I called the affair as well. While I like the show, I find it predictable.  It would have been nice, if Mr. B & Mrs. B's marriage was actually a healthy relationship with no drama. I really don't need every character to had some major drama going on.

[Meredith Quill]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

[Meredith Quill]

Or should she wake up and 'smell' the roses?

[Meredith Quill]

Your Cast Topic!

[AllAboutMBTV]

I said it upthread that many of the woman look and are dressed the same. Now when they appear onscreen I think to myself "Vicar's Wife," "Doctor's Wife or Daughter," "Aunt Rosamunde's Companion/Secretary," "Teacher, Rooms with Accountant," etc. For some reason, Pat is the only one whose name sticks (other than, ugh, Bob); you could beat me with sticks and I couldn't immediately tell you the first names of the other characters. Can someone remind me who the young blind woman is? (I am enjoying Home 'Fries' -- I can't see it any other way -- but I just have a block against their names. Too much good TV -- my brain is full!)

[JudyObscure]

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 7:31 PM, AuntiePam said:

My problem with keeping the characters straight is that they don't seem to "fit".  The doctor with cancer looks too young to be Laura's father.  Dan -- the soldier returned from Dunkirk -- looks much younger than his wife, and is the boy his brother or his son?  Others have mentioned the similarities between the women -- the hair color and hairstyles make it difficult to keep 'em straight.  Pat and Mrs. Barden and the blonde are easy, but the rest are a bit confusing.

Yes, and I thought the vicar's wife was his daughter for the longest time.  The only way I can tell her from the teacher is the teacher wears redder lipstick.

 

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 10:36 AM, attica said:

Can I just say how awesome I think Francesca Annis is? She just fills up the frame with her presence. 

I know.  The first thing I saw her in was "Reckless," as the older woman driving  a young man mad with desire.  I will forever think of her as wildly sexy.

BTW, I think the Women's Institute is kind of mean to her.

[dcalley]

This article is a tiny bit spoilery for what's still unaired in the US. The gist is: "Series creator Simon Block will continue the story of Home Fires in three new novels." So far it's UK only.

[NoThyme]

Just watched episode 2 of the second season, what a wonderful show.

[AnnieBeez]

7 hours ago, NoThyme said:

Just watched episode 2 of the second season, what a wonderful show.

There's more discussion under Masterpiece, if you're interested. 

[overbooked]

On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 3:44 PM, AuntiePam said:

Were they rescued at Dunkirk with the others?  I don't remember.

I was hoping that Mr. Barden's secret would be that he had a secret child, from an old affair.  But the note with the necklace put paid to that. 

I think the necklace's note indicated the necklace was for Helen, not Mrs. Barden.. I also think the mysterious 20% is for an illegitimate child from that relationship with Helen. The lawyer's instructions not to reveal the name of the party and the monthly  payments going back 10+ years seem to point to a child. I wouldn't be surprised if Mrs. Barden seeks out the now-orphaned child and has him/her evacuated from London to the village, as many London children were sent to the countryside during the war to escape the relentless bombing.

[jaybird2]

so that's where everyone is!  thanks mischamouse.  i asked for this thread and was surprised no one was posting

[Renee in CA]

I'm glad to see that I'm not The only one who has trouble telling characters apart. I'm watching very casually because if this.

[Ms Lark]

Home fires Masterpiece topic and this one need to merge somewhere.

[JudyObscure]

Everyone is getting reckless.  Pat and her handsome Czech,  Vicar's widow and that man she was  obviously in-love with even while her husband was still alive, Laura who might have wanted to stay home from dances while her name was still in the papers.

The teacher and the woman pilot might be getting ready to be reckless, but I don't think people were very suspicious about that in the 1940's.

Mrs. Barden must be shattered at the betrayal of a child born eleven years ago.  That's a lot of lies.

I was disappointed that the blonde telephone operator wasn't fired.