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S05.E10: Long Live Love

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Kathryn discovers a long-buried family secret; Daphne and Mingo compete for a paid internship; Bay struggles to prove herself as an artist to John; Toby meets a woman who changes his perception about his son's future; Regina takes a chance on love.

90-minute series finale!

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The highlight of my day is that Ryan Lane liked my tweet about the series finale ??. 

 

This was a ground breaking show. It had its ups/downs and disappointing moments (especially after season 3), but I was glad for it. I hope to see Sean Bledsoe, Ryan Lane and Katie LeClerk continue to grace our screens giving deaf and hard of hearing actors a chance to be represented. 

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I'm gonna be blunt. That finale was garbage. But it was the perfect ending to a terribly written disjointed final season.

ETA:

I'm not going to get too personal, but this show affected me on a visceral level and I expected more. Or maybe it was always there and it was ME who was the idiot for sticking around after consistent disappointments. 

There were good moments and I'll remember those, but this was a difficult ending for me to swallow.

Edited by JaggedLilPill
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I'm not happy Freeform mistreated this show in the last couple of years. To some extent, that's tainted my feelings about this season and about the series finale. That said, I do appreciate that Freeform game Lizzy Weiss an extra 30 minutes (minus ads) to wrap things up.

This was the finale I expected, but only because I've been disappointed by TV series finales for many a year. I don't remember the chronology of meta-events, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure the creative crew knew either the episode order number, or that this would be the final season, when they started writing it. 

So, while I don't appreciate that the last season was dominated by stories that weren't about the family members' relationships with one another, I do appreciate that Switched at Birth went there with a topical racial storyline. 

I always wanted Bay and Emmett to reunite, but I get why the show didn't have them do so. He cheated on her. He let her down after she was raped. They grew and moved on.

My real problem is with Bay and Travis. It's not so much how their relationship itself played out, it's that Daphne (rightfully) broke things off with Travis, because of his anger issues and violent tendencies. 

Had the show allowed Travis to grow past that, I think I'd be fine (if unenthusiastic) about Bay and Travis. But season five didn't just reference Travis' temper, it featured it. And no one (never mind Bay), no one -- not John, Kathryn, Regina, nor Daphne -- even raised it as a concern, where his romance with Bay was concerned. Then his current explosions were chalked up to his status as a sexual abuse survivor.

While a person who is still coming to grips with molestation could certainly act out, somehow, that part of the story didn't feel organic to me, at least not how it played out. 

I appreciate the show wanted to give Melody her moment in the sun, since she fueled much of the series, but I didn't care for her storyline at all. It just felt contrived.

I don't know. I appreciated the family-matters sentiment in the finale, but I wish it felt like the season had been building to it. Even Toby's gambling relapse was never mentioned, beyond his post-wedding vows confession to Lily, right? I feel like, in days of old, the whole family would have been apprised of Toby's slip, and there would have been at least one mention of him attending a G.A. meeting or something.

Ah well. In all, I think this was a beautiful show. I appreciate the efforts that went into writing it to a close. I just wish it had ended later and differently. 

Edited by General Days
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I wasn't expecting much but I was a mess when Emmett rode up on his motorcycle.  I'm not technically a Bennett shipper but I appreciated the montage because their relationship was such a big part of the show. I also love that Bay didn't go chasing Travis OR Emmett. 

John knowing that Bay wasn't his annoyed me at first because he was so hard on  Regina, but they cleaned it up when he stayed even though she wasn't his and he thought his wife had cheated on him.  That's pretty decent for John Kennish. 

Melody taking care of the deaf kids of KC feels right.  They had to give her a proper send off since Marlee Marlin is their big get.

The ending was the best part, I think. I'm a sap for mushy moments so I fell apart with Daphne asking to call Katherine "mom" and the much needed scene with Regina and Bay.  I'll be forever annoyed by the way they passed over that relationship because it needed the most work but I'm grateful for that moment.  Regina and Toby even had a small moment, which was nice because I've always liked their relationship.  

I was even a sucker for the callback to the show's poster of the girls lying in the grass. I always thought it was kind of a lame shot but this makes it better, girls trying to fit into five year old props and all. 

This show could have been so much better. They could have done so much more with the switch aspect, with the familial relationships, with the girls.  I think they tried to do too much by having so many special issues but for what it was, I still loved it.

Edited by Spencer Hastings
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Not horrible but still slightly disappointing. The sudden cancelation didn’t allow for the writers to build to these moments so all these “big decisions” carried very little weight since they just popped up this episode. 

Glad Bay didn’t follow Travis or get back with Emmett.  

Daphne’s speech to the jerky doctor was nicely done but I’ll never be invested in Daphne’s path to becoming a doctor because it’ll never seem worth the sacrifices her family (namely Bay) made to get her there. 

Not sure why Toby’s suddenly unhappy with music but nice that he found something he feels so strongly about.

Could have done without the Matthew/Melody subplot and definitely could have done without seeing Eric again. 

Where’s the Cracked Mug located? For some reason I thought it was in East Riverside, which would mean if Regina moves to East Riverside to raise Will, she would actually be closer to Bay (and Daphne) because Bay’s living above the Cracked Mug. Not that it matters where Regina lives because I don’t think her relationship with Bay is ever going to go beyond where it is now, but no need for Bay to be sad about Regina moving because it's not like she's going far. But Regina being so eager to raise Will must have felt like such a slap in the face to Bay, it's like her own mother is willing to raise any child but her. 

Speaking of which, my favorite part of the episode was when Daphne asked if she could call Kathryn “mom” in front of everyone and they had their big happy moment, and Bay just stayed quiet and didn’t ask the same of Regina because she still hardly knows Regina. 

Okay, my actual favorite scene was Toby, Bay and Daphne reminiscing about all their screw-ups and Toby's line about him and Bay having had a jump start on disappointing John and Kathryn. It was a fun sweet little moment. 

They seemed to try to give each family dynamic a little scene to tie things up but it just wasn’t enough and those moments fell short to me. Bay and Regina, who have had probably the most complicated relationship on this show, had like 30 seconds together and that was that. And Daphne and Bay said very little that mattered to each other when their relationship with each other has always been such a big part of this show. It seemed like the finale focused more on how the switch affected the parents than it did the girls.  

Edited by Everleigh
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5 hours ago, Everleigh said:

 Where’s the Cracked Mug located? For some reason I thought it was in East Riverside, which would mean if Regina moves to East Riverside to raise Will, she would actually be closer to Bay (and Daphne) because Bay’s living above the Cracked Mug. Not that it matters where Regina lives because I don’t think her relationship with Bay is ever going to go beyond where it is now, but no need for Bay to be sad about Regina moving because it's not like she's going far. But Regina being so eager to raise Will must have felt like such a slap in the face to Bay, it's like her own mother is willing to raise any child but her. 

Speaking of which, my favorite part of the episode was when Daphne asked if she could call Kathryn “mom” in front of everyone and they had their big happy moment, and Bay just stayed quiet and didn’t ask the same of Regina because she still hardly knows Regina. 


I'm pretty sure that Regina had more scenes with Toby this season than with Bay.

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I'm really glad they didn't have a pop-up wedding.  Most of the rest of it was OK to good, given the cancellation was done on short notice.  I felt that having Melanie stay made a lot of sense.  John still not fully encouraging of Bay's use of her talent was at least in character for him, but he's still an inveterate ass to me.  Bay-Travis-Emmett's resolution was a little too neat but I could buy it.  Ditto Daphne and Mingo.  Toby's decision made sense to me inasmuch as DJ hours don't fit with family life, and I think he would be a good teacher or other advocate.  The part that didn't sit well was Regina convincing Eric to go to prison for 2 or 3 years while she raised Will.  I doubt it would work that easily with an unrelated child.  It would have been better had Eric never reappeared.  Regina could have just moved out with or without Luca.  It was a nice touch she that she was returning to her old neighborhood. 

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7 hours ago, Everleigh said:

Where’s the Cracked Mug located? For some reason I thought it was in East Riverside, which would mean if Regina moves to East Riverside to raise Will, she would actually be closer to Bay (and Daphne) because Bay’s living above the Cracked Mug. Not that it matters where Regina lives because I don’t think her relationship with Bay is ever going to go beyond where it is now, but no need for Bay to be sad about Regina moving because it's not like she's going far. But Regina being so eager to raise Will must have felt like such a slap in the face to Bay, it's like her own mother is willing to raise any child but her. 

I had the same question, which drove me crazy enough to search Google maps for directions from Mission Hills, Kansas to East Riverside, Missouri. Google only wanted to give me Riverside, but still, I think we're talking about a 15 mile trip. And yes, I think the Cracked Mug is in East Riverside (not positive). 

If Bay had been moving back in with J&K, I could understand her being sad about Regina leaving. 

Also, I didn't quote this part, but you mentioned Regina being willing to raise any child that wasn't Bay. I'm disappointed by their relationship, but didn't Regina also not want to raise Angelo's baby -- the one the gay couple eventually adopted?

I wish Eric and Will either hadn't come back, or had come back early in the season with his legal troubles magically fixed, somehow. The Regina's-boy-toy storyline felt like a waste of time. 

40 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Bay-Travis-Emmett's resolution was a little too neat but I could buy it.

In the show in my head, Bay thought up that suggestion in order to free herself of both of them, because she knows they're both too serious about her and she just needs to be herself, right now.

I've always found it frustrating that neither Toby nor Bay went to back to school, after floundering around for a while. 

Did Ty's story end with him faking cheating on Bay, so she would forget about him once he was deployed? I can't remember if we ever saw him again, although I do remember Mary Beth finally telling Bay he didn't cheat. Since the end of this season was old home week, I would have rather seen Ty and Wilkie, than some of the people they brought back. Also? Grandma.

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1 hour ago, General Days said:

I had the same question, which drove me crazy enough to search Google maps for directions from Mission Hills, Kansas to East Riverside, Missouri. Google only wanted to give me Riverside, but still, I think we're talking about a 15 mile trip. And yes, I think the Cracked Mug is in East Riverside (not positive). 

If Bay had been moving back in with J&K, I could understand her being sad about Regina leaving. 

Also, I didn't quote this part, but you mentioned Regina being willing to raise any child that wasn't Bay. I'm disappointed by their relationship, but didn't Regina also not want to raise Angelo's baby -- the one the gay couple eventually adopted?

I wish Eric and Will either hadn't come back, or had come back early in the season with his legal troubles magically fixed, somehow. The Regina's-boy-toy storyline felt like a waste of time. 

In the show in my head, Bay thought up that suggestion in order to free herself of both of them, because she knows they're both too serious about her and she just needs to be herself, right now.

I've always found it frustrating that neither Toby nor Bay went to back to school, after floundering around for a while. 

Did Ty's story end with him faking cheating on Bay, so she would forget about him once he was deployed? I can't remember if we ever saw him again, although I do remember Mary Beth finally telling Bay he didn't cheat. Since the end of this season was old home week, I would have rather seen Ty and Wilkie, than some of the people they brought back. Also? Grandma.

I miss grandma too!

As far as Regina being willing to care for Will and not Angelo's daughter, caring for a young teen (Will is around 13 if the timining is right) is VERY DIFFERENT emotionally and physically than raising an infant from birth. Eric seems to have done a good job with Will, who at this age needs love/guidance and supervision, not 24/7 care, being taught how to walk, talk, etc. At Regina's age an older child is a hell of a lot easier than a baby. Further more I think Regina knew with Angelo he wasn't going to be up to doing the heavy lifting with his daughter and it would fall on her unfairly if she stayed with him. In this case that's not an issue with Eric so it's not really a comparative situation IMO. 

Regina said she was opening a SECOND cracked mug, that location would be close to East Riverside. I wish they had spent more time on Regina's professional life after having to quit being a hairstylist. Running a coffee shop would be a good fit for her personality and could've produced cool storylines. Alas they writers failed us. 

Edited by Scarlett45
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2 hours ago, General Days said:

I had the same question, which drove me crazy enough to search Google maps for directions from Mission Hills, Kansas to East Riverside, Missouri. Google only wanted to give me Riverside, but still, I think we're talking about a 15 mile trip. And yes, I think the Cracked Mug is in East Riverside (not positive). 

If Bay had been moving back in with J&K, I could understand her being sad about Regina leaving. 

Also, I didn't quote this part, but you mentioned Regina being willing to raise any child that wasn't Bay. I'm disappointed by their relationship, but didn't Regina also not want to raise Angelo's baby -- the one the gay couple eventually adopted?

I wish Eric and Will either hadn't come back, or had come back early in the season with his legal troubles magically fixed, somehow. The Regina's-boy-toy storyline felt like a waste of time. 

In the show in my head, Bay thought up that suggestion in order to free herself of both of them, because she knows they're both too serious about her and she just needs to be herself, right now.

I've always found it frustrating that neither Toby nor Bay went to back to school, after floundering around for a while. 

Did Ty's story end with him faking cheating on Bay, so she would forget about him once he was deployed? I can't remember if we ever saw him again, although I do remember Mary Beth finally telling Bay he didn't cheat. Since the end of this season was old home week, I would have rather seen Ty and Wilkie, than some of the people they brought back. Also? Grandma.

Since she is a convicted felon, Bay's employment options were limited. Going to school would probably been a complete waste of time. She had already been denied entrance into art school.

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I went in with low expectations for quality and pacing and common sense, and the show met those expectations, so overall it was fine. I'm glad Bay chose her career but with a commitment to stay in the healthiest relationship she's ever had. I'm glad Daphne continues to honor the sacrifice Bay made for her by staying on the doctor path. I'm glad Toby has found a sense of purpose in life and had a good scene in the cafe showing he'll probably be a natural at it. I'm glad Travis will get to play professional baseball and also won't be alone in Japan.

But everything just felt a bit rushed and inexplicable, and some of the character-to-character stuff fell flat, like Bay and Regina. I saw in a Lizzy Weiss interview about the cancellation a while ago that the network offered her a choice of either 2 hours or 1.5 hours for the finale, and she chose the latter because 2 hours would have required too much filler. I guess in her mind, "filler" means character development and explanations? 

I think she also said in one of her post-finale interviews last night that they opted not to do a flash forward, so they didn't shut down plot possibilities for a future revival or reunion special. Maybe I'm just a pessimist, but I really don't see that happening for this show and I would have appreciated an X years later kind of wrap-up. How great would it have been to let viewers know that these new paths chosen with such confidence by the characters actually did end up being right for them?

Because I think that's always been one of my major issues with Switched at Birth: the characters have made so many bad decisions, over and over again, and it's never quite sure if they've learned from their mistakes because it could all turn around in a second for the sake of drama. The emotional closure I needed wasn't about romance or shipping any of that, I think -- it was about growing up. I would have liked to see that these particular big decisions had good outcomes and that the characters became adults finally.

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2 hours ago, Jintian said:

I went in with low expectations for quality and pacing and common sense, and the show met those expectations, so overall it was fine. I'm glad Bay chose her career but with a commitment to stay in the healthiest relationship she's ever had. I'm glad Daphne continues to honor the sacrifice Bay made for her by staying on the doctor path. I'm glad Toby has found a sense of purpose in life and had a good scene in the cafe showing he'll probably be a natural at it. I'm glad Travis will get to play professional baseball and also won't be alone in Japan.

But everything just felt a bit rushed and inexplicable, and some of the character-to-character stuff fell flat, like Bay and Regina. I saw in a Lizzy Weiss interview about the cancellation a while ago that the network offered her a choice of either 2 hours or 1.5 hours for the finale, and she chose the latter because 2 hours would have required too much filler. I guess in her mind, "filler" means character development and explanations? 

I think she also said in one of her post-finale interviews last night that they opted not to do a flash forward, so they didn't shut down plot possibilities for a future revival or reunion special. Maybe I'm just a pessimist, but I really don't see that happening for this show and I would have appreciated an X years later kind of wrap-up. How great would it have been to let viewers know that these new paths chosen with such confidence by the characters actually did end up being right for them?

Because I think that's always been one of my major issues with Switched at Birth: the characters have made so many bad decisions, over and over again, and it's never quite sure if they've learned from their mistakes because it could all turn around in a second for the sake of drama. The emotional closure I needed wasn't about romance or shipping any of that, I think -- it was about growing up. I would have liked to see that these particular big decisions had good outcomes and that the characters became adults finally.

Choosing to become a convicted felon could NOT lead to a good outcome.

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What I liked:

That the show pulled a Dawson’s Creek and switched up the “endgame” couple. Bay and Travis was a nice ending. The Bay and Emmett montage showed how screwed up their relationship was and rightly called it a thing of the past.

Among Daphne’s seven thousand boyfriends on this show, Mingo was the one I liked most in the post-high-school years. The actors had chemistry and I can picture Daphne and Mingo having ridiculously attractive children.

Gabe’s new haircut.

Regina getting a – let’s face it – very mixed happy ending. Waiting for your boyfriend to get out of prison while you raise his kid is, uh, not the best thing in the real world.

Bay being happy in the end. I really didn’t care that much about any other character, it turns out.

 

What I didn’t like:

The idiotic “mean doctor shits all over poor St. Daphne but she prevails with her heroism and deaf activism” story. That was some of the clunkiest writing I can remember. Just embarrassing.

Really, we had yet another butthurt Iris and apologetic Mingo scene? She turned out to be quite the oversensitive asshole. Oh well.

Speaking of clunky writing…the Down syndrome scenes. Oy.

Toby continuing to play musical chairs with his careers. Just pick something, dude. After he and Lily inevitably divorce, I wonder what job he’ll land on.

 

Overall:

This show had a lot of promise and did so many interesting things with the deaf aspect (subtitled scenes, the all deaf episode). But terrible, embarrassingly bad writing sank the show. It had all the subtlety of a middle-school play.

Vanessa Marano was the standout actress of the show, in my mind. Uneven at times, yes, but she always felt real in ways that other characters (St. Daphne...) did not. No other character got crapped on quite as much as Bay.

 

16 hours ago, Everleigh said:

Not that it matters where Regina lives because I don’t think her relationship with Bay is ever going to go beyond where it is now, but no need for Bay to be sad about Regina moving because it's not like she's going far. But Regina being so eager to raise Will must have felt like such a slap in the face to Bay, it's like her own mother is willing to raise any child but her. 

Speaking of which, my favorite part of the episode was when Daphne asked if she could call Kathryn “mom” in front of everyone and they had their big happy moment, and Bay just stayed quiet and didn’t ask the same of Regina because she still hardly knows Regina.

 

I agree, that omitted question to Regina was a nice touch. Kathryn has two daughters, but Regina only has one.

 

All in all, good riddance.

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About Daphne being a surgeon: I would assume there are deaf surgeons in the real world, but it seems like it'd be very difficult to adapt for a deaf person. Lip reading would be right out, and relying on an interpreter in the room with you could be difficult, and even the slight delay between a doctor/nurse saying something and the interpreter repeating it could matter in an emergency situation. What methods do they use?

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Overall I liked it. I loved that Bay and Travis ended up together and liked that she chose herself for once but still got everything she wanted. I liked how they brought up everyone's seemly preference for Daphne yet made it clear that for the Kennishes - they have three kids. For example, for once and for all they showed that while it may be easier for John to show his affection and pride for Daphne, he loves Bay just the same. 

Toby's storyline was sweet but his whole marriage and son plot-line always seemed heavy handed, rushed and not quite believable. He says all the right things but for some reason I never quite bought it. 

I loved that Kathryn stood up for Bay and gave Daphne a pep talk. I also love that Daphne asked to call her mom and called John dad as well. It was sad - yet fitting that Bay didn't ask the same for Regina, but it fits. Someone mentioned up thread and I agree, Regina sees Bay as a distant relative and her relationship with Daphne seems more like aunt/niece than mother daughter. It must sting a little for Bay that Regina's willing to raise literally anyone else besides her biological daughter. I'm a little sad for Bay, she's the one who wanted to find her bio family and was the one who ended without one - at least biologically speaking. Regina's a stranger, Angelo's dead/seems more Daphne's dad, the grandmother didn't want anything to do with her and even Angelo's other daughter is MIA. She's never going to have that sort of bio family Daphne gained but I liked that the series finale showed that she'll be ok. They all will.

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10 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I miss grandma too!

As far as Regina being willing to care for Will and not Angelo's daughter, caring for a young teen (Will is around 13 if the timining is right) is VERY DIFFERENT emotionally and physically than raising an infant from birth. Eric seems to have done a good job with Will, who at this age needs love/guidance and supervision, not 24/7 care, being taught how to walk, talk, etc. At Regina's age an older child is a hell of a lot easier than a baby. Further more I think Regina knew with Angelo he wasn't going to be up to doing the heavy lifting with his daughter and it would fall on her unfairly if she stayed with him. In this case that's not an issue with Eric so it's not really a comparative situation IMO. 

Regina said she was opening a SECOND cracked mug, that location would be close to East Riverside. I wish they had spent more time on Regina's professional life after having to quit being a hairstylist. Running a coffee shop would be a good fit for her personality and could've produced cool storylines. Alas they writers failed us. 

In re: Regina & Will: I mentioned that, because earlier, someone said Regina was willing to raise any child -- provided it wasn't Bay. While I don't love how the Regina/Bay relationship was handled, Bay wasn't the only child she didn't want to raise.

8 hours ago, John S said:

Since she is a convicted felon, Bay's employment options were limited. Going to school would probably been a complete waste of time. She had already been denied entrance into art school.

Yes, her felony limits her career options, but less so in the art world. Yes, I remember she didn't qualify for a grant because of it. I'm not talking about that, though. My main point was that both Toby and Bay went to a hella expensive private high school (until Bay transferred to Carlton) and it just frustrates me that, after both of them floundered around for a while, they didn't go back to school. Besides, it's not like a degree was going to hurt her employment chances. And? It's not like college would have made her a less accomplished artist.

2 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

About Daphne being a surgeon: I would assume there are deaf surgeons in the real world, but it seems like it'd be very difficult to adapt for a deaf person. Lip reading would be right out, and relying on an interpreter in the room with you could be difficult, and even the slight delay between a doctor/nurse saying something and the interpreter repeating it could matter in an emergency situation. What methods do they use?

This was addressed in-show, but I have no idea if it's true. Daphne said to Dr. Intolerant that there are clear face masks to facilitate lip reading. I have no idea if that's so, except this show has been pretty careful in its treatment of issues affecting the deaf community.

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Bay is a kid who was given up for adoption. She eventually got to meet her bio mom and have a friendship or aunt/niece type of relationship with her.

Daphne is a kid who grew up thinking that her 'father' (in this case, extending to both bio parents) abandoned her, only to discover that they simply never knew she existed.

Those final scenes with the family while Toby and his wife were off to the side while the parents and girls had a big scene kind of exemplified his weird place on the show. They wrote him as being very much like Bay (artistic, not interested in sports, not really connecting with John the way Daphne did) and, indeed, as practically Bay's best friend at times, but would then make a big deal about Bay not fitting in with her family

I'm not sure what to make of the revelation that John had a paternity test done and then just sat on the result that said he wasn't Bay's father (assuming that Katherine had cheated on him). It's there as an obvious contrast to Angelo with Regina and Daphne. It certainly says something about his character that he didn't even say anything about it.

On the other hand, I just don't know that I buy that John would have been capable of not saying anything about it to Katherine. He couldn't even get upset with Bay for 2 seconds without mentioning Travis going to Japan.

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1 minute ago, Perfect Xero said:

Bay is a kid who was given up for adoption. She eventually got to meet her bio mom and have a friendship or aunt/niece type of relationship with her.

Daphne is a kid who grew up thinking that her 'father' (in this case, extending to both bio parents) abandoned her, only to discover that they simply never knew she existed.

Are you speaking metaphorically? What do you mean Bay is a kid who was given up for adoption? That's not what happened here.

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Those final scenes with the family while Toby and his wife were off to the side while the parents and girls had a big scene kind of exemplified his weird place on the show. They wrote him as being very much like Bay (artistic, not interested in sports, not really connecting with John the way Daphne did) and, indeed, as practically Bay's best friend at times, but would then make a big deal about Bay not fitting in with her family

Yeah, I've been mainly disappointed with how SAB handled Toby's relationships with his sisters (and Toby, in general). And I don't get it. Gabreel is a good actor. I think that was a squandered opportunity. 

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I'm not sure what to make of the revelation that John had a paternity test done and then just sat on the result that said he wasn't Bay's father (assuming that Katherine had cheated on him). It's there as an obvious contrast to Angelo with Regina and Daphne. It certainly says something about his character that he didn't even say anything about it.

The way I interpreted it while watching (and has since been backed up in interviews I've read; I can't quote you any, but Check out TVLine.com), is that Weiss wanted another opportunity to drive home that J&K have the real deal (i.e. a solid marriage). So, despite John's shortcomings, he's a devoted enough father (and husband) that when he (thought he) found out his wife conceived "their" daughter by someone else, he didn't want to give up his family. I actually thought the conflict part of this story was unnecessary, but I am sort of fond of the result. Despite John's hardassery, he loved Bay (and Kathryn) enough to not rock the boat after 16 years.

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On the other hand, I just don't know that I buy that John would have been capable of not saying anything about it to Katherine. He couldn't even get upset with Bay for 2 seconds without mentioning Travis going to Japan.

Yes, there is that, and it was probably the hardest part to swallow, except I do believe John loves Kathryn and Bay (and Toby) regardless of his obvious flaws.

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2 minutes ago, General Days said:

In re: Regina & Will: I mentioned that, because earlier, someone said Regina was willing to raise any child -- provided it wasn't Bay. While I don't love how the Regina/Bay relationship was handled, Bay wasn't the only child she didn't want to raise.

Yes, her felony limits her career options, but less so in the art world. Yes, I remember she didn't qualify for a grant because of it. I'm not talking about that, though. My main point was that both Toby and Bay went to a hella expensive private high school (until Bay transferred to Carlton) and it just frustrates me that, after both of them floundered around for a while, they didn't go back to school. Besides, it's not like a degree was going to hurt her employment chances. And? It's not like college would have made her a less accomplished artist.

This was addressed in-show, but I have no idea if it's true. Daphne said to Dr. Intolerant that there are clear face masks to facilitate lip reading. I have no idea if that's so, except this show has been pretty careful in its treatment of issues affecting the deaf community.

I recall them saying that, but from what I understand the lip reading on the show is practically magic. In the real world it's a case where a lip reader is getting half the words and then guessing based on context to fill in the gaps. I can't imagine that you could ever rely on that in a medical setting where a misinterpreted word could result in someone dying. Not to mention people in the middle of an operation having to constantly look at and monitor other things and might not be able to always look straight at someone while talking.

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15 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

I recall them saying that, but from what I understand the lip reading on the show is practically magic. In the real world it's a case where a lip reader is getting half the words and then guessing based on context to fill in the gaps. I can't imagine that you could ever rely on that in a medical setting where a misinterpreted word could result in someone dying. Not to mention people in the middle of an operation having to constantly look at and monitor other things and might not be able to always look straight at someone while talking.

Sorry, I quoted this before but then didn't something wrong and couldn't respond, yet couldn't delete it.

I'm largely with you on the lip reading. I just meant to add they did address that point in show. 

What got me about Dr. Intolerant's rude rejection of Daphne is that he wasn't looking for a proto-surgeon. I mean, Mingo go the job and he's not even pre-med. So, if Dr. Intolerant thought surgery involved complications beyond a deaf person's ken, maybe he should have hired her for the internship (it's not like it was a surgical internship if Mingo got it) so she could confront the reality of the job.

Edited by General Days

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8 hours ago, Jintian said:

Because I think that's always been one of my major issues with Switched at Birth: the characters have made so many bad decisions, over and over again, and it's never quite sure if they've learned from their mistakes because it could all turn around in a second for the sake of drama. The emotional closure I needed wasn't about romance or shipping any of that, I think -- it was about growing up. I would have liked to see that these particular big decisions had good outcomes and that the characters became adults finally.

Yes, I agree - though they both seem focused on making a path for themselves so it's as much as we can ask for I guess.

It's not the most popular opinion, but I always saw Bay as a flaky character with a good heart while Daphne's been a disappointment since Season 2 after Chef Jeff. They annihilated Toby's character after marriage #1 and Regina has never had a plot-line that didn't involve a man. The montage of Emmett & Bay's relationship truly made me cringe. The show really had nothing significant for Kathryn except to be the one who is most nostalgic and John had his a-hole moment BUT I'll give him credit because he's been on his good behaviour for the majority of the season - all I wanted him to do was tell Bay he loves her no matter what.

I think the girls had their emotional closure with the China adventure and moving in together so that it wouldn't be rehashed near the end. I think this episode was more for the parents (I wish abuela would have come back from Puerto Rico for a visit!).  I have no idea why Bay would be upset about Regina leaving when she'll just be on the other side of town and she no longer lives with J&K? I do think she made the right choice about Travis - so glad he decided not to give it up! There's no reason she can't visit him now that she'll be bringing in more clients with that celebrity. Maybe her experience with Emmett did make her realise that she doesn't need to move halfway across the country for a guy so positive signs of adulthood there.

Daphne will be fine but I will never buy her switch to medicine when her character was originally a culinary marvel - Mingo is okay but Wilke will always be the one who got away. Since Simone got to make an appearance I wish he could've made a cameo, even in a flashback! I had to chuckle at the last "deaf awareness" PSA to the professor, did anyone else catch that his last name was Bannon? ;)

I can't even get into Toby's dumpster fire marriage or Regina's ability to convince a fugitive to go to jail while she raises his son? I can't. The opening of a second coffee shop and her staying single would've been enough. Melody does make a for a great foster mother - I'm glad she decided to stay

Since the girls are so family-oriented, I can't imagine they'd ever leave KC permanently, so a time jump into the future would have been nice at least to show the audience that they were all okay and thriving. Instead of China, they missed out on a prime opportunity for the girls to connect with Angelo's family abroad - that's what audience members would have cared about. Plus, Vanessa Marano is fluent in Italian, it could've worked!

This is what I imagined for the characters:

Bay - Attending an art school in Italy and then returning to KC and starting a legitimate gallery
Daphne - Attending culinary school in France and then returning to KC to open up a bakery or restaurant
Toby - Attending WashU and becoming a professional musician
J&K - Becoming patrons for the deaf community: John would coach little league or high school baseball while Kathryn would start a foundation
Regina - Owns her own hair salon
Travis - Mentor/Advocate for bullied deaf kids (I'm satisfied with his pro ball career too)
Emmett - Professional photographer (hey they sorta got one right!)

Edited by Eri
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21 minutes ago, General Days said:

Are you speaking metaphorically? What do you mean Bay is a kid who was given up for adoption? That's not what happened here.

Yeah, I've been mainly disappointed with how SAB handled Toby's relationships with his sisters (and Toby, in general). And I don't get it. Gabreel is a good actor. I think that was a squandered opportunity.

Yeah, I was trying to be metaphorical about their relationships.

As for Toby, it's weird, because I really applaud the writers for not doing the obvious thing and making him a "John, Jr." popular jock/young Republican type, but, on the other hand, the writers never seemed to have any idea of what to do with that while also making it a major plot point that Bay doesn't fit in with her family.

10 minutes ago, Eri said:

This is what I imagined for the characters:
 


Bay - Attending an art school in Italy and then returning to KC and starting a legitimate gallery 
Daphne - Attending culinary school in France and then returning to KC to open up a bakery or restaurant
Toby - Attending WashU and becoming a professional musician
J&K - Becoming patrons for the deaf community: John would coach little league or high school baseball while Kathryn would start a foundation 
Regina - Owns her own hair salon
Travis - Mentor/Advocate for bullied deaf kids
Emmett - Photo-journalist (hey they got one right!)

Your version is nicer than the AU in my head where Bay never takes the fall and Daphne is still in jail while Bay and Toby live in LA with Emmett focusing on their art/music, and travel home to visit their parents a couple of times a year.

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14 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

I recall them saying that, but from what I understand the lip reading on the show is practically magic. In the real world it's a case where a lip reader is getting half the words and then guessing based on context to fill in the gaps.

You're right about this. Daphne's lipreading on this show is completely unrealistic. The average amount of content that could be understood would be around 30%. With accents, lisps, speed, etc. - even the most skilled lipreader would get maybe half of what is being said. Season 1 was more accurate about showing the deaf perspective on what they're seeing vs. what they're understanding.

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4 hours ago, t7686 said:

I'm a little sad for Bay, she's the one who wanted to find her bio family and was the one who ended without one - at least biologically speaking. Regina's a stranger, Angelo's dead/seems more Daphne's dad, the grandmother didn't want anything to do with her and even Angelo's other daughter is MIA.

No biological family ties, a convicted felon, and an aneurysm ready to burst and kill her any moment. The writers must have truly hated Bay. 

 

3 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

On the other hand, I just don't know that I buy that John would have been capable of not saying anything about it to Katherine. He couldn't even get upset with Bay for 2 seconds without mentioning Travis going to Japan.

That John subplot reeked of obvious retconning. It totally didn't fit with anything in the early seasons of the show, when John and Kathryn were both shell-shocked by the switch revelation.

If they needed to shoehorn in some bombshell twist (which they really didn't), I think an interesting one would have been that Toby was the one who knew all along. It would have been an interesting layer to his friendly relationship with Regina; it always seemed like those two got each other. 

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Lizzy Weiss gave an interview where she was asked about Bay not calling Regina mom like Daphne asked to do with Kathryn, and she admitted that while Daphne has seen Kathryn as her mom for a while, Bay and Regina have always had more of a little sister/older sister or aunt/niece relationship. 

TV Guide Interview:

Quote

But Regina isn't as traditional and for some reason, I just picture Bay calling Regina 'Regina' forever. It's just a personality thing for them both, plus their initial relationship was always more fraught and more big sister/little sister or aunt/niece.

Kind of interesting. I wonder if Weiss heard the criticism some fans have had about Regina not treating Bay like a daughter but like a niece/distant relative instead, and just decided to embrace it and act like that was the plan all along. I don't think Bay not calling Regina "mom" is a personality thing for Bay, I think it's a Regina thing. Regina has always sort of kept Bay at arm's length because of her fears or insecurities, but Bay actually seems like the type to crave that connection and feeling of affection and familiarity that comes with such terms, in fact in this episode she even called John "Daddy" when she got emotional over him not understanding her. If Regina was a warmer person who had been more open and loving with Bay from the start the way Kathryn has always been with Daphne, I think Bay would have leaped at the opportunity to call Regina "mom" because she's always wanted that connection, but there's been so much disappointment and tension in their relationship over the years that Bay will probably never feel comfortable calling Regina "mom".  

On another note, I don't know why people keep bringing up the idea of a revival somewhere down the line in these interviews. This show was never popular enough to warrant a revisit. 

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10 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

Your version is nicer than the AU in my head where Bay never takes the fall and Daphne is still in jail while Bay and Toby live in LA with Emmett focusing on their art/music, and travel home to visit their parents a couple of times a year.

OMG, I've thought this for years!  A spinoff with Bay, Toby, and Emmett in LA would have been much preferable to what they ended up doing with the LA subplot.  Those three would have thrived in that environment.  It would have been great to see them navigating life together and struggling with their respective artistic endeavors while keeping in touch with the original premise/characters of the show.  I've always thought that they were the strongest actors and characters of the younger set with similar temperaments and interests.  It would have been much better than what they ended up doing where Bay throws away her life for the unworthy Daphne, Emmett gets totally  pushed out and replaced on the show with Travis, and Toby floats from boring plot to boring plot with no real direction.

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That doctor was a huge arrogant dickhead but the way Daphne confronted him was also like a kid throwing tantrum. I would have simply given feedback to the school that made this arrangement regarding the discriminatory and unprofessional remarks he made during the interview. It was uncalled for and needs to be reported properly. But there's really no point in trying to put him in his place personally by yourself.

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13 hours ago, General Days said:

Yes, her felony limits her career options, but less so in the art world. Yes, I remember she didn't qualify for a grant because of it. I'm not talking about that, though. My main point was that both Toby and Bay went to a hella expensive private high school (until Bay transferred to Carlton) and it just frustrates me that, after both of them floundered around for a while, they didn't go back to school. Besides, it's not like a degree was going to hurt her employment chances. And? It's not like college would have made her a less accomplished artist.

The felony conviction could make it harder for her to get into college to boot. Almost all colleges ask about criminal record will require her criminal history which will be evaluated as part of her application. If a school were particularly competitive that could be considered a ding against her. It seems like Toby was going to go back to school for his dream of working as an advocate. 

13 hours ago, General Days said:

This was addressed in-show, but I have no idea if it's true. Daphne said to Dr. Intolerant that there are clear face masks to facilitate lip reading. I have no idea if that's so, except this show has been pretty careful in its treatment of issues affecting the deaf community.

I did find an article about how a deaf surgeon could receive training.  Basically she would be wearing a microphone and a transcriptionist would type everything in and it would be up on screens where the student could see it. I'm not sure how that would work, though, if a patient were crashing. This is interesting on accommodations for the deaf in medical school

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Not a bad finale, but you could tell it was rushed, with the writers trying to give every character an ending and closing up several arcs, even ones we have hardly spent any time with. This show really could have been so much better and more interesting of they had focused on the family and how they were all affected by the switch and its fall out, instead of melodrama and Very Special Episodes, but it did have a lot of good episodes and storylines, and I will miss the show and its characters. It could have been better, but it was pretty good as it was.

I'm glad that Travis and Bay are going to try to make it work long distance, and that we didn't end up with Bay dumping Travis to go off with Emmett. I used to really like Bay/Emmett, but they just have too much bad history between the two of them. I'm glad they ended on a good note, with the two of them bitter sweetly reminiscing about being in love once, but still parting. It looks like they are all in a good place, and I think that's a good ending for them. Becoming a tattoo artist really is a good career for Bay. Tattoo people wont care about her felony, it allows her to follow her artistic passions, and she can still make a living doing it. She got a happy ending, and that's all I asked for. Or, at least as happy as it could be for Bay.

I was really pissed off when it looked like John might have known about the switch, but I was alright with what they actually revealed. He though Katherine had cheated and Bay wasn't his bio daughter, but he loved them and didn't say anything. I don't think much time passed between him getting the test result and finding out about the switch, so he probably didn't have time to blow up, as he tends to do. John was a dick to poor Bay at the party, but I think I can understand it more after what he said later. He has tons of connections and experiences in so many fields, and he feels like he cant help Bay in the art world, and that freaks him out. Despite how much he naturally connects with Daphne, I always felt that he (and Katherine) always loved Bay and Daphne equally as daughters. Which brings me to...

I don't care at all about reginas love life. If they had spent more time on her realationship with Bay instead of her relationships with her endless stream of boring guys, maybe I would like her more. Its interesting that even the people behind the show noticed that Regina and Bay don't have the mother/daughter relationship that Katherine/Daphne do, but I don't think its a personality thing so much as Regina not being that interested in Bay. I think she cares about her, but not as a daughter at all. Even here, the scene at the end between them was nice enough, but her big scene was with Daphne. Its really sadly ironic that Bay, the one who felt alone in her family and searched for her biological family, is the one who didn't end up making a real connection with her biological family, while Daphne, who was at first just fine with Regina, got a whole new family that loves her. Also, I didn't care about her romance with boy toy guy, but it was pretty shitty of her to dump him in the middle of a party she invited him to, right after he thought they were moving in together. Not cool Regina.

Dr. Intolerance clearly existed to be a strawman for Daphne to get a big inspirational scene where she tells him what a jerk guy how wrong he is and how she's a strong independent woman who don't need no Dr. Intolerance. That guy was ridiculous, it was like he thought Daphne had leprosy and if he spoke to her for more then three seconds he would catch her deaphness. Also, if Mingo had just apologized about that stupid costume ages ago like he did here, that whole appropriation story probably never would have happened! Also, Iris is still pissed off about that apparently. And she's dating that jerkass guy who screamed at her about how she wasn't "really black" in front of a room full of people. Her levels of forgiveness are weird. Oh goody. And speaking of strawmen, the scene with Toby was also the fight against straw, where Toby randomly decides to give up his DJ dream he's had for ages, and will now be some kind of advocate. Not a bad idea for Toby, but it comes right out of left field.

I did enjoy seeing the girls recreating the original pose from the poster. Cheesy, but I enjoyed seeing it.

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I was a BEmmet fan at the beggining, but after some episodes this seasons I've realized the beautiful relationship Travis and Bay have got. 

I don't understand authors, people want to see people, normal relationship and It includes family ties, not only romance. They were able to write a good connection between Daphne and the Kennishes. Why weren't they able or interested to do the same for Bay and Regina? 

The John knows stuff was out of blue as well as his reaction. But It was a nice parallel to Angelo's. 

I don't know If it really affected the writing and although it was not Constanza's fault, her health problems were a big deal for me: till the end it bothered me the fact that Regina knows ASL but doesn't sign a word and relies on lip reading with her own daughter all the time. They could have used that to develop more her with Bay... Instead we have Eric back and she raising a new kid.

Agreed with most of you: this show had talented actors (Ryan, I'll be watching you!), Nice stories to tell and I'll miss It. But I was glad with Bay and Travis, both happy together and with their careers, Toby's finding a path (although very sudden), Kennishes and Melody happy... Nice ending.   

Edited by justmythoughts · Reason: Spelling
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Have to admit that I cried during the last 10 minutes. I will miss this show. Glad that the key characters got their happy endings. Glad that we got to see Regina's mother (Ivonne Coll from Jane the Virgin) again.

I am grateful for the window into deaf culture; I feel that the show educated a lot of people - myself included - about a world I previously knew little about.

For so long I wanted Bay and Emmett to be endgame. However, that all changed when Emmett himself changed. I'm not sure if Travis is the One for Bay but I'm glad that the show didn't send her running back to Emmett.

I like Mingo and think that he is good for Daphne. Felt badly for Luca but he always did look like Regina's boy toy. Regina raising Eric's son further extends the notion of "family". Also glad that they showed Melody getting a huge job and turning it down to take care of the deaf students at UKMC.

Nice show - well done for most of the run - I will miss hanging out with the Vasquez/Kennish clan.

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I'm glad bay didn't choose Emmett because now He can be all mine .. I did love EBay but I wasn't mad with the ending . I liked her Line of her always remembering him as her first love . It was more realistic and gave them closure 

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I'm good with the ending for the most part. Don't have any major criticisms. Kinda glad it's done though, as I think I was growing tired of it and was just watching out of habit. I liked it in the early seasons because I found the deaf/hearing aspect very interesting but I feel after a while, they got veered off that course and it became more and more like a sitcom soap opera.

I am also realising that I may be the only one here that doesn't have a problem with Bay and Regina's relationship. I remember they spent quite a bit of time getting to know each other when they moved in with Angelo. They bonded over their love of art. Yeah, it may have been more like sisters than mother and daughter, but I think that's OK. Bay already had a mother with whom she had a good relationship with (teenage angst aside) and she didn't need to latch onto Regina to find that. I actually think it's more realistic that way than Daphne trying to get Katherine to be her second "mom". I actually hated that scene. Found it unnecessary.

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8 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

Poor Luca, didn't he invest in the Cracked Mug recently too? That's going to make for some awkward business meetings.

No. Regina wouldn't let him once she discovered it was his money not his "investors."  After previous issues, she wanted to keep the relationship and business separate. 

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I'd give the finale a C.  Most often, unexpected cancellations end with disappointing finales. 

Although this series became way too preachy, I never missed an episode.  Very interesting concept. 

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On 4/12/2017 at 8:35 PM, Perfect Xero said:

I'm not sure what to make of the revelation that John had a paternity test done and then just sat on the result that said he wasn't Bay's father (assuming that Katherine had cheated on him). It's there as an obvious contrast to Angelo with Regina and Daphne. It certainly says something about his character that he didn't even say anything about it.

On the other hand, I just don't know that I buy that John would have been capable of not saying anything about it to Katherine. He couldn't even get upset with Bay for 2 seconds without mentioning Travis going to Japan.

 

On 4/12/2017 at 8:43 PM, General Days said:

Weiss wanted another opportunity to drive home that J&K have the real deal (i.e. a solid marriage). So, despite John's shortcomings, he's a devoted enough father (and husband) that when he (thought he) found out his wife conceived "their" daughter by someone else, he didn't want to give up his family. I actually thought the conflict part of this story was unnecessary, but I am sort of fond of the result. Despite John's hardassery, he loved Bay (and Kathryn) enough to not rock the boat after 16 years.

I mean, John couldn't have sat on it very long, though, which both makes it more credible that he did keep it secret, and also makes it less impressive that he didn't leave. Kathryn said that his results were dated a month before the family got theirs, right? I'm not sure how long test results take to run, but there'd be reason for John to keep quiet and not leave even before they discovered the switch.  As soon John found out that Bay wanted to get the genetic tests and Kathryn was okay with it, he would have known something was strange, wondered why Kathryn wasn't opposed, when she'd come clean, surprised when they actually got the test and morbidly curious if she'd actually wait until the geneticist told them at an in-person meeting that she was Bay's mother but John wasn't the father? I mean, who would leave the family at that precise point? It's high drama! He probably sat on it without the confusion of Kathryn's seemingly-incongruous reaction for 2 weeks, maybe 3 max. If he went months or years without leaving or saying anything, I'd be impressed. A couple weeks doesn't even give him time to have processed it. It tells me nothing about how solid or not-solid the marriage is. 

 

On 4/12/2017 at 8:54 PM, Eri said:

I have no idea why Bay would be upset about Regina leaving when she'll just be on the other side of town and she no longer lives with J&K?

I had to chuckle at the last "deaf awareness" PSA to the professor, did anyone else catch that his last name was Bannon? ;)

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing-- why is Bay crying, it's not like Regina is moving to Belize, she lives at Regina's place of work, this is weird? 

I didn't catch the last name. When she mentioned a big-name sports doctor who treated high-profile patients, though, I became worried that she was going to find out that he was sexually abusing his underage patients and/or collecting child pornography, since this show likes to explore contemporary issues and sometimes bases its stories on real events, which would not be the best plot line for a series finale. (I know it's been in mainstream media to some extent, but it's hard for me to gauge how well-known the issue is, since I'm so very saturated in the gymnastics world, but that's what's going on with Larry Nassar, who until recently was the doctor for the USA women's gymnastics national team.) So I was just relieved it was a much more back-to-the-basic-show-premise type of plot point.

On 4/13/2017 at 2:04 PM, tennisgurl said:

John was a dick to poor Bay at the party, but I think I can understand it more after what he said later. He has tons of connections and experiences in so many fields, and he feels like he cant help Bay in the art world, and that freaks him out.

That would be great, if it weren't exactly the same thing John said to Toby back in Season 1 about why he had trouble supporting Toby's dreams of becoming a musician, and Toby told him that he doesn't need his help, he just needs him to "get it". And while he has decided on a different path now, at this point Toby has been a professional musician for a while now. So, like... John has struggled with this exact thing before, successfully articulated his struggles with it 4 and a half years ago, and has come to terms with this exact thing before. This is a person journey he's already made, and that makes his being a dick to Bay a lot less sympathetic. Hearing him make the exact same sorta-apologetic explanation of non-support in the finale (of a 5 season show!) that he made in Season 1 just made it feel like he hasn't grown at all.

I don't think that the writers intended his speech to Bay to indicate non-growth; I think it's more likely that they honestly forgot his identical speech to Toby, and it's just an in-character enough mental and emotional beat for John that they didn't realize they re-created it. But as a viewer who immediately remembered that scene, it was absolutely the effect. 

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Quite a disappointing finale and lopsided in its focus. So the writers had time to make sure Mingo apologises to Iris (which was not necessary in my view) but they didn't have time to squeeze in a Bay-Regina heart to heart talk?

So John makes two 'I''m so proud of you and your career path' speeches to Daphne (right in front of Bay) but Regina has nothing to say to Bay?

And when John was on Bay's case about going to art school and becoming a proper artist,, I wanted Bay to point out this might not be possible because she took the fall for Daphne's shameful behavior (the one he is so proud of).

Dislikes  - another 'Daphne can overcome all obstacles' scene, the Carlton/Down Syndrome stuff which came too late for me to care, Regina's love life (yawn), flashbacks (we know what happened already).

It would have been better if instead of Daphne, Regina took Bay back to her old neighbourhood to fill Bay in on what she missed out on. And when Daphne asked to call Kathyrn 'mum', show Regina having some sort of regret that she has not earned the 'mum' moniker from Bay.

I would have liked a little more focus on Toby's sibling relationship with Daphne and the semi-sibling relationship between Travis and Emmett. It's strange but I never saw Melody playing favourites with her two boys (unlike Regina) even though Travis is not really hers. 

 

-

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