S03.E13: The Sign

[possibilities]

Thank you!!! I couldn't believe everyone acted like it was all on Frankie to change or lose the relationship. Nothing from Jacob? Not even a compromise, like half time in one place, and half in the other? He didn't even discuss it with her before he made the decision! And then he was pissed at Grace!!

And Brianna suddenly abandoning her life to go wait around hoping her ex would take her back? Shudder.

They couldn't think of ANY other stories? Who writes this unnuanced retrograde crap?

[Blakeston]

On 4/5/2017 at 1:40 PM, iMonrey said:

The thing with Frankie and Jacob makes me nuts because they have it backwards. It's not Frankie who has to decide what to do, it's Jacob. Frankie has already made a commitment to Grace and to their business; she hasn't made any commitment to Jacob. Jacob is the one who wants to change the dynamics of their relationship by moving away. That's his choice and it's fine but he's the one who needs to decide if he wants to be with Frankie, or if he wants to move. Instead he put this all on Frankie like she has to make a choice between him and Grace and that's not how it should work.

I think he made his choice - he was going to go to Santa Fe no matter what. And that left the ball in Frankie's court. If she wanted to continue a close relationship with him, she'd have to move. It's a brutal decision, and it sucks that she has to make it, but she's the one who has to make it.

Regarding Bud's girlfriend's pregnancy - was I the only one who had the impression that both she and Bud were in agreement that she should get an abortion?

[Clanstarling]

7 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I think he made his choice - he was going to go to Santa Fe no matter what. And that left the ball in Frankie's court. If she wanted to continue a close relationship with him, she'd have to move. It's a brutal decision, and it sucks that she has to make it, but she's the one who has to make it.

Regarding Bud's girlfriend's pregnancy - was I the only one who had the impression that both she and Bud were in agreement that she should get an abortion?

I didn't get the abortion vibe. On the other hand I wasn't sure how to take that scene.

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Regarding Bud's girlfriend's pregnancy - was I the only one who had the impression that both she and Bud were in agreement that she should get an abortion?

I'm hoping she'll decide pregnancy and childbirth would be too hard on her much-afflicted body and opt to abort, but I can't tell what they're going for.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I think he made his choice - he was going to go to Santa Fe no matter what. And that left the ball in Frankie's court. If she wanted to continue a close relationship with him, she'd have to move. It's a brutal decision, and it sucks that she has to make it, but she's the one who has to make it.

Well it should be a fairly simple choice - in fact, she doesn't really have one. He made this decision without consulting her and then basically gave her an ultimatum. She made a commitment to Grace and their business. He's saying "if you want stay in a relationship with me you have to break your commitment to Grace." In other words, screw over your friend and leave her holding the bag. That's a pretty crappy thing to ask. I don't even know why she'd want to be in a relationship with him at this point, if this is his idea of how relationships work. He makes all the decisions and she either goes along with him or they break up.

[azzabar]

Did anyone catch the bridge in the ocean at the beginning of the show? Later shots had it removed.

[Missy Vixen]

I turned to my husband as the hot air balloon was soaring away and said, "I think that's it." 

I appreciate the writers and actors being open to showing some of the downsides of aging -- it's not all fun, games, and a really cool vibrator.

[JBC344]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 6:44 PM, Blakeston said:

I think he made his choice - he was going to go to Santa Fe no matter what. And that left the ball in Frankie's court. If she wanted to continue a close relationship with him, she'd have to move. It's a brutal decision, and it sucks that she has to make it, but she's the one who has to make it.

Regarding Bud's girlfriend's pregnancy - was I the only one who had the impression that both she and Bud were in agreement that she should get an abortion?

I did get that impression.  Wasn't sure if I was reading the situation wrong or what.  Guess we will find out next season.

[eurekagirl mOo]

A- I Love this show

B- Peter Gallager has had a face lift and it looks like crap. Also miss his eyebrows.

C- I WANT and NEED that vibrator. 

D- I hate Buds GF. Just stupid

[wendyg]

I didn't like much of this season. While I appreciate the attention paid to Sol's and Robert's different reactions to being newly out at their age, I didn't care for the musical as a way of illustrating it. More important, I think the whole vibrator storyline was misconceived. It would have been *far* more interesting to watch them argue about what business to launch, settle on vibrators, argue about designs and colors, and have to research how to get it manufactured, fulfill orders, etc, than to watch lame SILICON VALLEY-style efforts to raise money. The episode where their backs gave out seemed cookie cutter sitcom - neither character has really been shown having back problems before. I also think this season shows the problem for the show going forward: how do you keep Sol and Robert in the frame? They've *left*, they've gotten married, they've moved to a new home, they've *retired*, and the show's efforts to work them into G&F's storylines look like becoming more and more contrived. And while I understand the actress was pregnant, I don't get how Brianna is hanging around Baltimore hoping her ex will see "reason" while she has a huge, great business to run back home.

That said, the final scene was great, and Sandy Denny singing "Who Knows Where the Time Goes?" was perfect. (Amazingly, Denny was *19* when she wrote that.)

Edited April 15, 2017 by wendyg

[Bastet]

52 minutes ago, wendyg said:

The episode where their backs gave out seemed cookie cutter sitcom - neither character has really been shown having back problems before.

Frankie's back went out in the first episode; Grace had to bring her pills to her on the beach.  And what happened to Grace is fairly common, where someone trying to support the full weight of someone else winds up injuring herself in the process.

That one was more sitcom-y than we usually see on the show, and the slow-speed chase across the floor was almost cartoonish, but it worked for me.  I wouldn't want it over-used, certainly, but I enjoyed it. 

[Empress1]

On 3/29/2017 at 3:46 PM, hnygrl said:

I just hate it that a strong, accomplished, successful, beautiful woman is lowered to stalking a man who walked away from her and is clearly over her. It's so lowering and humiliating. She's just sitting there (literally!) waiting for him to either cheat on his girlfriend with her or "choose" her.

Girl. No. If my kid or any female friend I know did that? We'd have to have a talk. That's just so humiliating and wrong. 

Sure, she discovered she wants what he wants. Now. And fully expected him to just drop everything and take her back. When that didn't happen, she should have gone home. It hurts. A lot. But we don't always get second chances. Sometimes you screw up and miss your shot.

That's a better message to that demographic than her sitting there, not running her business, just...waiting...for him to "choose" her. Ugh. This has to have been written my men. Can't imagine women writers sitting still for this. It's just freaking wrong and unrealistic.

Agreed. I can buy that she's realizing that she wants love. I've known a lot of women, myself included, who kind of went with the flow of hookup culture because "everyone was doing it" but then got honest with ourselves about wanting something deeper, and then started dating with that purpose. But to me it makes much more sense for her to chalk Barry up to being the person who helped her realize that - just because their relationship didn't work out doesn't mean it wasn't valuable. I could maaaaybe see her going to him and being like, "Look, I messed up, can we try again?" (Although I wouldn't think it was a good idea since while I think she wants love, I don't buy that she wants kids, which I think Barry does.) But he's moved on. That sucks. She should grieve it and move on too rather than subjecting herself to literally sitting around waiting for him to choose her.

I always assumed Jane and Lily's hair wasn't real. They look like wigs. Good wigs, but wigs nonetheless, especially Lily's.

[Bastet]

I think by dating Barry exclusively for however much time had passed and finally introducing him to her mom as the man she's involved with, Brianna showed she was open to being in a committed relationship and making someone part of her life (rather than just wanting "a boyfriend who doesn't talk" as she's said in the past) and sticking with that as long as it lasts.  She just didn't want that to wind up in marriage (or kids).  Then it's on him to decide if he can live without that.  He couldn't, so he moved on.  Done.  Move on.  Good for both.  She's seen she can, indeed, be part of a romantic partnership, and if she falls in love with someone who wants the same things she does out of such a relationship, great.  This wasn't it, and that makes her sad for a while, because she was happy with him.  But it's life. 

It was this wonderful, healthy thing, and then all of a sudden she's abandoning her business to stalk the guy and try to entice him into cheating on his girlfriend with her.  Gross.

[mmccpp]

On 3/30/2017 at 5:36 PM, Clanstarling said:

To me, they seem to be addressing the very messy business of relationships on a number of different levels. Every character on the show has a different challenge/desire when it comes to relationships, whether it's romantic, familial, or friendships. I, personally, like that being explored.

This is why I love this show.

And on a shallower note:  I am very proud that I managed to space it all out ... no more than one episode a day!  And really shallow:  I want the cocktail glasses in the last episode.  I want the martinis in them, too, but I want those glasses.

[OtterMommy]

55 minutes ago, mmccpp said:

And on a shallower note:  I am very proud that I managed to space it all out ... no more than one episode a day!  And really shallow:  I want the cocktail glasses in the last episode.  I want the martinis in them, too, but I want those glasses.

I'm impressed! That was my intention, to space this show out, but I think I went through it all is 2-3 days...

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, mmccpp said:

This is why I love this show.

And on a shallower note:  I am very proud that I managed to space it all out ... no more than one episode a day!  And really shallow:  I want the cocktail glasses in the last episode.  I want the martinis in them, too, but I want those glasses.

 

1 hour ago, OtterMommy said:

I'm impressed! That was my intention, to space this show out, but I think I went through it all is 2-3 days...

I have poor impulse control, and too much free time. Netflix was made for me. I think it took me two days.

[Lovecat]

On April 9, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Blakeston said:

Regarding Bud's girlfriend's pregnancy - was I the only one who had the impression that both she and Bud were in agreement that she should get an abortion?

Nope, I thought the same thing. I guess we'll find out next season.

[femmefan1946]

I found so many parts of this disconcerting.

Brianna- stalking the ex. If they had to get the actor out of the picture for a while, why not an extended business trip to Asia-- one of the prime markets for high end cosmetics.

She learned a lot from the boy whore - her face when he said she was on his phone as Brianna3 was perfect. But I don't think she would be stalking Barry.

Bud and Alison- I don't see what he sees in her, unless it is that he has been the 'only sane man' in his family all his life and needs to take care of someone. If Alison really is pregnant, and like most, I have my doubts, I think a miscarriage would be as likely as an abortion or a death, especially if her ailments are real and not imaginary.

Coyote is turning into an adult. Buying a sensible house-- for all the jokes how much more house does a single man need? My parents raised four children in 600 sq ft. He is holding on to his job(s) and nurturing Mallory's children.

Mallory- If she takes up with Coyote, she better have some way to support her family and her lifestyle, because much as I like him, he never will be able to do it. Does she have a profession? Lawyer? Yoga instructor?

Robert and Sol - I do like the way they are learning to live together although I also think they are young to retire as lawyers. Many in the profession remain active in their mid-eighties. Is Sol doing anything now that he is at home?

Grace was definitely playing the thieving manufacturer. But he was pulling some very creepy stuff.  I hope he comes back next season and she really shuts him down. Preferably with the help of Bud and perhaps Brianna's legal team.

And yes, Joseph was pushing his relationship with Frankie, although it is hard for me to understand how much time has passed in the story. It must be at least a couple of years, if only to get the vibrators designed, safety tested, and manufactured. A two year relationship leading to some sort of marriage-like committment doesn't seem out of line to me, but the Santa Fe plan did seem to come out of the blue.

[QTBlueMoon]

On 4/10/2017 at 3:52 PM, azzabar said:

Did anyone catch the bridge in the ocean at the beginning of the show? Later shots had it removed.

That's what I thought at first, too! On later shots, though, it turns out to be some type of decorative netting (?) along the property line.

[Wings]

Good catch on the bridge, I missed it.  

Buds GF is nuts,  I don't think she is really pregnant.  Hysterical pregnancy perhaps. This will signal the demise of that relationship to open it up for Bud to have a new love interest next season. 

I agree it was stupid to have Brianna waiting for her BF to have a change of heart.  I think there was something to that, though.   Brianna is a one note at this point so I think they will show her softening to the idea of having a partner in her life after all.   It will give more depth to her character.  

We will see Grace and Frankie have other love interests come and go.  They had to get Jacob off the show somehow.  Him retiring to a place that was home to him, made sense.  Just like Frankie not leaving the familiar. 

Edited June 4, 2017 by wings707

[MartyQui]

Re the martini glasses, I have them.  They're from William Sonoma.

I really enjoy this show, even more so when I fast forward through the majority of the Robert and Sol scenes.

[WhineandCheez]

Quote

Yeah, June Diane Raphael was the one who was pregnant the whole season. She talked about being grateful to Fonda for advocating for a positive workplace policy re: maternity leave. Having said that, I really missed the resolution of Brianna's storyline and the lack of her presence in the pivotal hospital scenes

NOW I know why she was wearing a black leather jacket everywhere in Southern California.

I'd like to know how Mallory with 4 tiny kids is everywhere all the time w/o said kids.  Need to pick out new glasses?  Mallory will be there--alone.

[kelslamu]

So, is the Peter Gallagher character supposed to be the female Grace (business-wise) and her match in that both have kids in their business as well?  His son said that PG wasn't supposed to be in meetings and I thought of Brianna saying Grace overshadows her.  PG is just one big eyebrow to me. lol  

[Sesquipedalia]

On 3/26/2017 at 1:56 AM, Bastet said:

Are we seriously, on this of all shows, going to do some asinine storyline where a man acts like a total asshole, refuses to take no for an answer, and the woman finds it charming?

This threw off the whole season finale for me. I mean, it would be fine if Grace used the situation to get out of the lawsuit, use the guy's balloon, and then shut him down. But he's obviously going to be her new love interest . . . because women love guys who threaten to ruin their business and bankrupt them. That's just so charming... HAAAAAAAATE.

I find the storyline about Frankie's choice between San Diego and Santa Fe quite compelling. In addition to her great relationship with Jacob, there's also the allure of a new adventure that is drawing Frankie toward Santa Fe. She would probably love that city (as Grace said, she's been dressing for it her whole life), and especially after facing a health setback, I can see her wanting new challenges and a fresh start. Even though she has started a new life with Grace, they don't get along that well, and Frankie doesn't seem super interested in their business. She was bored out of her mind when they were packing up their very first shipments, which would have been an exciting day for most business owners, as it was for Grace.

Frankie's heart is not totally in what she's doing with Grace. When she decided she couldn't go to Santa Fe, the choice was clearly based on fear, not on what she really wanted. I'm glad the season ended with Grace encouraging her to go, so now hopefully Frankie can make her decision with a clearer head. Obviously she will not choose to leave unless it's the series finale, which even then is unlikely, so my hope for Season 4 is that she will gain a firmer appreciation for the life she and Grace have built and maybe find her niche in running the business. If there's a grandchild, that could also be a factor, but I hope it's not the main factor.

[possibilities]

I thought that Jacob was also a jerk, though, in the way he gave her an ultimatum and didn't include her in his thinking until the moment he pulled the trigger. He and Frankie had fun, but he wasn't really treating her like a partner so much as an accessory when that all came out. So my view is that neither he nor the guy courting Grace are worthy of Our Heroines.

[stillshimpy]

On 10/8/2017 at 6:53 PM, possibilities said:

I thought that Jacob was also a jerk, though, in the way he gave her an ultimatum and didn't include her in his thinking until the moment he pulled the trigger. He and Frankie had fun, but he wasn't really treating her like a partner so much as an accessory when that all came out. So my view is that neither he nor the guy courting Grace are worthy of Our Heroines.

I'm in full agreement.  I thought that Jacob was the person putting too much pressure on Frankie to move to a state she's never lived in, away from her friends, away from her family, away from the entire life she built post-divorce, away from her business, all so that Jacob could retire near his children.  He's more than entitled to make his own choices based on what he's always envisioned for himself but to put it mildly, that pressure escalated quickly.  He went from being the Yam Guy to being the guy asking a woman practically constructed out of neurosis and oddities, to move away from everyone who cares about her, so that he can have what he wants.  

At least Gallagher's character is copping to the male-power-bullshit moves he's pulling but Jacob's not exactly in the clear there either. 

First of all, Jacob seems like a great guy but that's an awful lot of isolation from friends and loved ones to be a good idea when Frankie is experiencing some health problems.  Has she even met his children? 

I don't think it makes Jacob a bad guy or a poor choice but the pressure put on Frankie to decide because Jacob had determined it was time for him to retire was not okay.  Get ready to commute a bit to see your girlfriend there, buddy. or live with your own choices for a realistic change. 

I also thought Bud and his overly fragile girlfriend were on the same "Yeah, neither of us is thrilled about this news and we're not going to say that we are"  which was both realistic and refreshing.  Even though someone that overly conscious of absolutely everything going on with her body not having birth control plans designed to defeat Hercules sperm seemed unlikely, I'll be interested to see where they take it. 

I also wouldn't worry too much about Peter Gallagher becoming a fixture.  This show has been a parade of one-and-done great actors of yore.  Swoosie Kurtz was the first name that occurred to me and then I went and checked IMDb.   There's a long list of actors just as big as Peter Gallagher and in some instances, bigger, who did one or two episodes and exited politely stage left.  

We'll see, but I have more faith in Fonda than to believe she's actually going to have Grace find someone attractive who threatened the safety and security of her business to try and woo her.  That he admitted that was what he was doing doesn't actually solve that problem.

Admittedly, they had a fairly long and completely tired storyline with Robert and Sol involved in an entirely daft protest against gay people in musical theater, so sometimes the writing is tighter than others, I admit.  

Please, please don't let them pursue a storyline with Bud and Allison preparing for a bundle of food allergies and gluten sensitivities.  I'm afraid that is the more likely route though because both Bud and Coyote are adopted. 

I really enjoyed the season but the stories felt incomplete on a lot of levels.   Oh and Lily Tomlin's wig has always stood out to me as the more obvious wig.  

Edited October 10, 2017 by stillshimpy

[whydoiwatch]

Rewatching in anticipation of new season coming up. If Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin are wearing wigs, to my eye they look very natural. Would such realistic hair pieces be available to the average consumer and if so, from what source do you think? My hair is beginning to thin and I know it isn't going to thicken up as I continue to age.

Both women look fantastic in a different way. Love the show.

[Clanstarling]

6 minutes ago, whydoiwatch said:

Rewatching in anticipation of new season coming up. If Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin are wearing wigs, to my eye they look very natural. Would such realistic hair pieces be available to the average consumer and if so, from what source do you think? My hair is beginning to thin and I know it isn't going to thicken up as I continue to age.

Both women look fantastic in a different way. Love the show.

I think they wear extensions, rather than wigs. As I understand it, extensions look more natural because they're blended in with your real hair. I don't have any personal experience with them, so I'm not sure about that.