S06.E14: Page 23

[Shanna Marie]

If Gideon is capable of sending the Nautilus to another realm and poofing away, what power does he hope to gain from Emma that he doesn't have already? And does he really think that he would get light magic Savior power from committing murder? Why hasn't anyone said anything about this?

Emma says in her argument with Hook that he knows her parents and they'll forgive him. Has she met her father? David didn't forgive Hook for having once been a pirate who had done generic bad stuff after Hook saved his life, helped rescue Henry, jumped through numerous portals to help Emma, got mortally wounded saving Snow's life, and died saving the whole town. He just barely got over that after Hook put his life on the line to stop David from committing murder. I wouldn't feel super confident about him being at all okay with Hook having killed his dad, ever. I'm really not sure what Emma was expecting at the end. You give a guy the engagement ring back, you probably don't expect him to come home that night. Her "condition" on giving the ring back was kind of vague. Since she already knew his secret, it wasn't like he could come clean with her now. What was he supposed to do? How was he supposed to show that he'd learned his lesson, or whatever?

The Jekyll/Hyde split thing with Regina never made sense, and it's nice to see that it still doesn't. I had to shake my head at Henry's "there's good in you." By definition, the Evil Queen was everything that was evil in Regina. That was the point. I'm sure the flashback was supposed to show how complex and misunderstood Regina was, but what it shows to me is that she had zillions of chances to turn her life around and never took them, had many chances to find love but chose to cling to her hate, got multiple wake-up calls about what was really going on with her and ignored them all. So now I'm supposed to feel sad for the way her life has turned out?

I noticed in the clip of Hook's chat with Snow and his final visit to the Nautilus that he had on the new coat. Did we see him change during the episode? Or did it just appear? I wonder where he got his stuff when he was preparing to leave. Did he sneak into the house to pack while Emma was out? He didn't seem to have his stuff that he had when Snow talked to him when he went into the Nautilus, so you'd think someone would find it on the docks and figure out that something had happened -- unless it was buried under the snow.

[oncebluethrone]

I thought this episode was really good overall for the most part. I liked how OQ gets to exist in some realm, but my heart is broken over Captain Swan. I’m hoping we get a second proposal next episode.  I also didn’t like the flashback and was disappointed Tink was in only one scene.  

Edited March 27, 2017 by oncebluethrone

[superloislane]

I...don't even know what I just watched.

That was horrendous. 

I would rather watch a thousand of last week's episode than watch this one again. And I hated last week's episode.

So Regina gets to keep her clean slate with only a little bit of darkness while the Evil Queen (who we have to acknowledge as a totally separate person apparently) says sorry to Snow, who is still cursed by her, and then she gets to go have a happy ending with Robin Hood in another world? A world they're now saying is real and still exists which means Regina murdered real Snow and Charming from a real world which no one will ever bring up again. I knew they couldn't let any version of Regina go without a happy ending. Why didn't Regina take her back and actually take responsibility???? It makes no sense at all.

Meanwhile, the thing I was hoping would get me through this episode, Captain Swan, had some angst but it was so contrived I couldn't even enjoy it. Hook is burning the memory for no reason (a memory in a dreamcatcher which only magic can do but whatever), Emma randomly finds him (it didn't even seem like she came through the door so Hook was burning it when she was in the house like a dumbass?!) and she knows it's David's father for no reason at all. In fairness, they did have a good scene where she confronts him because she pointed out that they really do need to stop hiding things from each other because they really do. But then he goes to Nemo to go be a better man but changes his mind but then Gideon shows up and sends him away so now Emma will think Hook abandoned her. Gideon has only been in Storybrooke for a couple of days and even he knows that Hook is the only person who seems to really care about and support Emma through everything. (I still haven't got that image out of my head of Emma lying on the couch in her house after she had to kill Hook because apparently her whole family left her there to cry on her own while they went and changed. Never over it!).

Why is Emma only in episodes for 5 minutes at a time now? This is getting ridiculous.

I'm actually a little pissed off for Snow and Charming. It feels like they never get to be angry about anything that happens to them which is why Charming's centric was so good since he got to lose it for once. Snow has to have tears in her eyes when the bitch who cursed her and her husband says 'oops sorry!' and goes to be happy. Emma says Snow and Charming would forgive Hook for the killing because that's who they are and I agree with her but why? Why can't they be able to hold a grudge for once? It makes them seem like cardboard cutouts who don't feel emotions so if you do anything to them, it doesn't really matter.

Oh and Hook hates himself for everything he did and he wanted to go off and try to be a better man despite dying and coming back to life just last season but Regina had the revelation that she...loves herself even though she again pretty much said she doesn't regret anything???

Edited March 27, 2017 by superloislane

[Randomosity]

18 minutes ago, Curio said:

Like, girl, can you wait at least a month before you go on another date or try to "move on"? If you truly love someone and break up, it should take a while to even think about hopping back on the wagon.

But I know plenty of people in real life who do move on that quickly (and not just after dating break-ups - after divorce, after broken engagements). It's mind-boggling to me every time I see it, but given that it's a thing that does happen, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they try to make it happen here with Emma.

[oncebluethrone]

We got our first Snow/Killian conversation!

Edited March 27, 2017 by oncebluethrone

[Blue Plastic]

1 hour ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

And speaking of great parents - Gideon is now wondering around town, armed and plotting against Emma.  I am so glad that Rumple and Belle have warned Emma that their psycho spawn has repaired the sword he needs to kill her in the last episode and is coming for her.   Oh, wait.

This was so stupid.  I thought Rumple was going to do his dirty work for him (even though that wouldn't really absolve Gideon of involvement in the crime, but never mind that).  But he was nowhere to be seen while Gideon was committing his crimes this week.  Plus, yeah, why wouldn't at least Belle just hop on over and warn the Charmings that Gideon was still after Emma?  I guess we're supposed to be satisfied since Emma already suspects Gideon is still going to attack her again, but this makes me take a really dim view of Belle (or dimmer than I already had).

BS on the Captain Swan angst of course.

And WTF with Regina/Evil Queen?  Seriously?  I thought Regina was going to reunite her two halves into one again.  That would be more fitting.  Maybe she couldn't do that after their fates had been cut (LOL) but whatever.

Well, at least this seems to mean that Robin (from any realm) + Regina is over?

[Curio]

41 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I'm really not sure what Emma was expecting at the end. You give a guy the engagement ring back, you probably don't expect him to come home that night. Her "condition" on giving the ring back was kind of vague. Since she already knew his secret, it wasn't like he could come clean with her now. What was he supposed to do? How was he supposed to show that he'd learned his lesson, or whatever?

 

 

Yeah, there really was no winning for Hook. It's not farfetched at all to believe that David will still be upset with Hook and that there will always be a part of David that will think back to that moment and will think less of Killian. How can Emma even make that assumption for her father? I'm sure there would always be a part of Emma that viewed Regina in a slightly different light if she ever learned about her keeping Graham a secret. (Although, after this episode, probably not.) And to act surprised or sad that Killian didn't come back that night? Emma, you shoved the ring back in his face and walked away, that's the universal sign for get away from me. Was he supposed to come back literally hours later with rose petals on the ground, grovel at her feet and say he will never ever tell a lie again (which would be another lie because white lies happen all the time), and video record his conversation with David where he spills the beans? And why can't the writers ever bring up the fact that Killian died last season?! So Emma is willing to go to the Underworld to bring him back to life after he went super dark, but the second he tries to forget about a painful memory from decades ago, she gives her engagement ring back? Wtf?

Edited March 27, 2017 by Curio

[Rumsy4]

56 minutes ago, Curio said:

Sadly, the writers set up an August/Emma love connection thanks to the stupid Wish Realm. I will straight up lose all respect for Emma if she goes on a date literally hours after Hook leaving. Technically, they didn't even totally break up because she gave him the window to come back when he's ready and seemed to expect him to come home at the end of the episode.

It would be completely OOC for Emma to start dating someone the day after her True Love disappeared with no explanation. But this has been the season of character destruction--so who even knows. Belle dated Will after she banished Rumple. So, the writers may have Emma try to date August. I just hope not. But Emma has had 5 minutes of screentime in the last 3 episodes. She's not likely to have more in the upcoming one either. Hard to squeeze-in a date into that. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Mathius]

Relax, there won't be a Emma/Hook/August love triangle.  There isn't nearly enough time in the season for that to get squeezed in.

Quote

Emma, you shoved the ring back in his face and walked away, that's the universal sign for get away from me.

It's weird because she actually did essentially tell him to come back later when she did that.  

Her words and her actions did not add up.  If she was going to say that, she didn't need to take the ring off and give it back to him.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Mathius

[MaiLuna]

Well, this episode was cheesy but I'm happy with the conclusion (except maybe CS separating AGAIN).

I officially like the EQ better now since SHE ACTUALLY APOLOGIZED TO SNOW. Why can't Regina do that? It's literally 3 syllables. The last scene with her and Robin was what I was expecting OQ to be before they met, with a sassier Robin. It sucks for OQ shippers that Regina didn't get a goodbye, even though he wasn't her Robin. By the way, doesn't everyone hate the EQ in the wish realm? She just killed the king and queen and kidnapped the princess never to be seen again.

The fight with Emma and Hook was so realistic. And finally a Snow and Killian scene!

So all in all, even if it was very corny, the episode actually gave me a bunch of stuff I've been wanting to see.  

[Camera One]

So are we going to alternate Rumple and Regina episodes from now on since they're the only people who matter?  After last week's new low, this week's episode maintained the flatlining of this show.

What made this episode so boring was we saw EXACTLY what everyone on this message board predicted would happen after the Season 5 finale.  Regina learns The Very Special Lesson to love her entire self, dark and light.  The only "surprise" is that The Evil Queen ALSO deserves her happy ending because of course she does.

I'm surprised no one has typed out the iconic lines from this episode uttered by Regina:  "And now... I love myself."

The whole climax in this episode was so hokey that I felt embarrassed watching it.  It was an utter lovefest for Regina/EQ.  It was ridiculous that she got a little bit of "love" in her heart (from Regina's pure red bobble) and the EQ was apologizing about a fallen lamp on the floor.  And some of the lines were just so tone deaf.  Like this one that Regina said to her new BFF The Evil Queen when she was asked if she regrets not going into the tavern.  Regina replied, "If I had, I wouldn't be here... I wouldn't have Henry or my family or this town."  Uh, if you had, you also wouldn't have murdered hundreds of people and put your "family" through hell.  

Like Curio said, I was surprised how sassy Snow was being when Regina suggested Henry write the EQ a "fresh start".  Ginny might have gone a tad overboard with that look of utter disgust she gave Regina for saying nice things about EQ.  In this show's climate, I can't believe Snow said, "Not everyone is redeemable."  Of course she was wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Belle didn't tell her "friends" that Gideon now has the sword intact and he's after Emma?  And Gideon just waited for all the drama to play out so he could send Hook on a submarine adventure?  

Hasn't everyone learned by now not to look at Dreamcatcher memories with your back to the door?

Did Wish Robin forget that the whole reason he came to Storybrooke was to escape Wish Rumple who was after Regina/EQ?  It really is a perfect world... the King and Queen are dead so the EQ can keep her throne.  They could give Wish Henry a memory potion to forget his grandparents died, since who cares, eh?

I'm glad the snow that made the commute so bad resulted in such beautiful shots for this episode.  At least it was very pretty to look at, even though it was deathly dull.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Camera One

[Curio]

I couldn't be sad about Emma coming home to an empty home because we've never really seen Killian and Emma live in the house together. Like, we don't even know their routine, what they do before bed at night, if they even sleep in the same freaking bedroom... Like, those are important domestic scenes you need to show on screen in order for your sad break up scene to have any emotional impact. Who knows, maybe Killian likes to drink at the Rabbit Hole late every night, so Emma should be used to him not coming home right away. How would I know? The writers never bother to show us anything.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Curio

[Camera One]

A couple of lines I wrote down while watching...

This episode tried to address why magic isn't used but I wonder what the point was... was the exchange supposed to be funny?  Because the reason was idiotic.  

ROBIN: Why dig with a shovel? [for the box with the Shears] Couldn't you use magic?
EQ: What's the fun in that?

What was the whole "I need you to be a thief" bit?  Did the Writers forget that after writing the line?

Hook got to say one of the patented lines in the series "Villains don't get happy endings".

So we finally got Emma saying, "This is my fault.  I'm the one who convinced you to bring [Robin]."  Tink also blamed herself ("It started with me...").  It must be nice to have so many people blaming themselves for your own decisions.

Why didn't Regina use the "Enchanted Ropes" on Zelena in Camelot?

Edited March 27, 2017 by Camera One

[andromeda331]

3 minutes ago, Camera One said:

A couple of lines I wrote down while watching...

This episode tried to address why magic isn't used but I wonder what the point was... was the exchange supposed to be funny?  Because the reason was idiotic.

ROBIN: Why did with a shovel?  Couldn't you use magic?
EQ: What's the fun in that?

Hook got to say one of the patented lines in the series "Villains don't get happy endings".

So we finally got Emma saying, "This is my fault.  I'm the one who convinced you to bring [Robin]."  Tink also blamed herself ("It started with me...").  It must be nice to have so many people blaming themselves for your own decisions.

Why didn't Regina use the "Enchanted Ropes" on Zelena in Camelot?

Yes, God forbid we get one from Regina. Hell, even the Evil Queen apologized!

[Curio]

19 minutes ago, Camera One said:

They could give Wish Henry a memory potion to forget his grandparents died, since who cares, eh?

 

I'm glad you brought up the memory potion stuff. So last week, Rumple was supposedly being a good father and shown in a good light for wiping Bae's bad memory of ordering him to kill Beowulf, but this week Killian is chastised and broken up with when he wants to get rid of his bad memory of killing Robert? Like, isn't drinking a memory-forgetting potion and burning a dreamcatcher essentially the same thing? How many times has Regina used memory-forgetting potions? Why hasn't she gotten chewed out by Emma for erasing some of her son's memories?

[Camera One]

Brigitte Hales‏, one of the Writers for this episode, wrote a bunch of tweets about this episode.  She mentioned on Twitter during the Hiatus about some big deadline, so it was probably about this episode...

Oh God, the break-up scene. THE BREAK UP SCENE. It nearly killed me.

I had to write that break-up scene the day after the election. Spent all day crying and writing. #ouat

I love seeing Henry and the EQ together. There's something about that pairing that always works for me.

I love how Lana looks at that arrow. It's such a tiny little thing but it's why every single writer on staff loves writing for her.

That's the other scene that killed me!! Regina/EQ redemption. More crying at the keyboard.

Big those scenes went through 1 bagillion drafts, then were acted beautifully by all. Love our cast.

[Dianthus]

Still stunned by the Hook/Snow scene. I mentioned to my friend that it was the first one ever, and he was like..."Really?" Watching this show has become like an episode of MST3K for me, it's that bad.

[RadioGirl27]

3 hours ago, Daisy said:

So. Emma could make Hook the Dark One, lie about it, lie about her saviour tremors and that her life could be in danger and Hook always stands by her.  But Hook has one moment of legitimate self doubt about something in his past and Emma is like here's the ring?  Whatever 

Also if she thinks David will forgive that then Rumple is as innocent and pure as the freshly fallen snow. I knew Hook would get slapped with Charming Self righteousness

Emma is a complete hypocrite. Not only she has been keeping secrets from Hook before, and some of them affected him directly, but it seems, looking at next week promo, that she is back yo thinking the worst of him.

I'm not sure if this was the writers intention, but Emma is the one that, at least for me, is coming out worse from this storyline, nota Hook.

3 hours ago, Senna said:

Yeah, the dreamcatcher scene was contrivance of the most bizarre kind.  They might as well have had Emma read the secret in Hook's secret diary under the mattress.  

She likes to go through his stuff, so it wouldn't have been so bizarre. 

3 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

She told Regina everything she knew about the curse. Regina didn't disclose what she said, but we may learn what it was later.

That way Regina would be the one to break the curse and she would be treated like the best hero ever.

[Mathius]

13 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Oh God, the break-up scene. THE BREAK UP SCENE. It nearly killed me.

I had to write that break-up scene the day after the election. Spent all day crying and writing. #ouat

OK, WTF is she on?  That wasn't a break-up, Emma specifically told Hook to come back and talk to her later once he'd gotten his shit together.

A couple taking some time off isn't the same as a break-up, Brigitte.  Learn the difference. 

[Rumsy4]

46 minutes ago, Mathius said:

A couple taking some time off isn't the same as a break-up, Brigitte.  Learn the difference. 

I guess she falls on the Ross side of the equation: We were on a breeeeeeak.

[KAOS Agent]

This show is getting harder and harder to get through each week. I don't know if I can make it through the season, guys. 

Some notes:

- The Evil Queen flashbacks have got to go. And was Tinkerbell always so Kiwi sounding? Season 3 was so long ago.

- I liked the Emma/Hook scene. It didn't come across to me that Emma was upset about the murder or the lying. She was pissed that he was trying to erase the memory entirely rather than trusting in her and their relationship to deal with the problem. If he doesn't have that trust, then they really shouldn't be getting married. Any and all actions in the past by either of them aren't the point because this is about the future. If Hook had proposed when Emma was covering the whole Saviour will die thing and Hook broke it off after learning the truth, I'd think he was justified too. I felt bad for both of them and despise the contrived angst, but don't think either was unreasonable in their actions. Except for the part where it seemed like Hook was leaving town without even a note.  And the part where he knew that would mean leaving her alone to deal with Gideon. Hook would never even have considered doing that. That was stupid.

- I loved the Zelena/Snow snark fest about unleashing the Evil Queen on the Wish Realm.

- I'm really seriously disturbed by the extreme shortcut taken with the Evil Queen/Regina resolution. Regina essentially ditched half her darkness by inserting it into another person and sending that person elsewhere. I just can't with this. What a cheap way to "redeem" a mass murderer. Also, this needed to happen much earlier in the season.

- Finally, I love Nemo. He can be Hook's best man.

Edited March 27, 2017 by KAOS Agent

[PixiePaws1]

Absolutely adore Nemo!!!  He needs to stay in town..he gives great advice   o))

Loved Ginny's blue coat..

Everything else was ...well.....

[PixiePaws1]

https://bromfieldhall.tumblr.com/image/158880958137

 Brigitte Hales responding to the question of Killian leaving without leaving Emma a message.

...!!

How could she one of the writers of this ep and NOT know the intention..*mind boggled*

[Rumsy4]

She also thinks Emma and Killian broke up. These people don't even know what they're writing, apparently.

[Chaos Theory]

I am going to avoid reading most of the post because I can already hear the brains cracking at the episode on this board especially since I absolutely loved it and that means it's a good bet everyone else around here hated it.

i liked the Hook angst and that he was actually angsty about not telling Emma about his shady dealings with her family but just couldn't bring himself to do it but before doing some stupid Snow came to him and told him how happy she was about him marrying her daughter and how the Evil Queen was getting her happy ending.   Of course some random shenanigans happen but hey whatever but I liked Hook for the first time since the last time I liked him.

And I don't want to give everyone an aneurism so I will just say that I liked the concept that NotRobin is actually the Evil Queens happy Ending and not Regina's.  Does it make sense? Has this show ever?

Edited March 27, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[asabovesobelow]

7 hours ago, RadioGirl27 said:

I'm not sure if this was the writers intention, but Emma is the one that, at least for me, is coming out worse from this storyline, not Hook.

I agree with you. Maybe because it's the 577th time one of the villain's pasts has caught up with them and the heroes are still shocked, if not by the event, then by the unwillingness to talk about it. I mean, he killed his fiance's grandfather. Who wouldn't take some time to figure out how to come clean about it? Her first reaction is to take off her ring and tell him to come back when he's ready to be totally open with her. Sure, she said 'they' need to stop doing it to each other, but pot, kettle? You don't get to share blame for half a second and then push it all onto the other person.

And I really liked the Regina stuff. Some of it was definitely hokey, but after the season 5 finale, I'm dead inside to hokey scenes. However, I greatly dislike the fact that they didn't merge and the Evil Queen is now an entirely different being living in a wish realm that makes no sense. Why not just keep going? Split yourself up a hundred times, keep touching hearts so there's a little bit of you in every one, and populate the earth with clones of yourself. One of them is bound to get a happy ending. 

[Daisy]

9 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Emma says in her argument with Hook that he knows her parents and they'll forgive him. Has she met her father? David didn't forgive Hook for having once been a pirate who had done generic bad stuff after Hook saved his life, helped rescue Henry, jumped through numerous portals to help Emma, got mortally wounded saving Snow's life, and died saving the whole town. He just barely got over that after Hook put his life on the line to stop David from committing murder. I wouldn't feel super confident about him being at all okay with Hook having killed his dad, ever. I'm really not sure what Emma was expecting at the end. You give a guy the engagement ring back, you probably don't expect him to come home that night. Her "condition" on giving the ring back was kind of vague. Since she already knew his secret, it wasn't like he could come clean with her now. What was he supposed to do? How was he supposed to show that he'd learned his lesson, or whatever?

Right? I mean, I'll admit it, I firmly sit at the Not a CaptainSwan fan table, but, she didn't even really allow Hook to explain. And I'll even put it one step further. I don't even think Hook needed to tell anyone anything. Was it a horrible thing that he did? Yes, of course. But that part of him is dead and has been dead, I'd wager since the start of season three. It drives me bananas that Hook continually whips himself because he feels himself as a Villain and he's constantly, utterly does things for the people he loves, because he loves them. not redemption or to be loved like Regina. and while Regina can do her best "let it go" impression, Hook never does. The man literally died for this people (because of something EMMA DID AFTER HE BEGGED HER NOT TO) so I'd say past sins are paid in full. 

Since the get go, David's judgmental ass has thrown into Hook's face that he's a no good rotten pirate, and only gives him the time of day when 
A: he can get something out of it (like last week), and he still insults him, or
B: he needs help lying his ass to his wife, and he still needs help. 

Anytime Hook would step out of line, there would have been some snide remark. Snow probably would have forgiven him because at times she has a clue in her head, but David would have held this against him for the rest of their lives.

And honestly, Emma had the prime opportunity to stand by Hook. "No. you don't have to hide your memories, or burn them. I get why you were afraid, Hook, but I love you. We're going to get married, and I'll stand by you. No secrets. We'll make David understand." not. "Well we don't lie to each other, you figure it out and come back to me.

Then act all wounded puppy that he actually "left"

[Primetimer]

It's Regina vs. the Evil Queen in an episode of creative camera angles and bitterness.

View the full article

[Rumsy4]

15 minutes ago, asabovesobelow said:

However, I greatly dislike the fact that they didn't merge and the Evil Queen is now an entirely different being living in a wish realm that makes no sense. Why not just keep going? Split yourself up a hundred times, keep touching hearts so there's a little bit of you in every one, and populate the earth with clones of yourself. One of them is bound to get a happy ending. 

Yeah. Who freaking cares if a clone of Regina got to live out her fantasy romance with a version of Robin who may or may not be real?? They literally interacted for a hot minute in Storybrooke, and this is supposed to be the closure for the OQ storyline? I'm no OQ shipper, and I don't know how the majority feel about this, but both the Split Queen and Wish!Robin plots have been completely irrelevant to anything important in the Show. We got twice the amount of Regina for what? The only thing the EQ did that was relevant to the story was to Curse Snowing and give them even less to do on-screen than before. Regina is no different from before. What was the damn point of the lynchpin plot of the Season 5 finale, on which they built half of the premise of S6?? 

[cdp73]

Screw the lousy storyline...I just wish they'd stop cutting Ginnifer's hair with a weedeater.  Those chewed up bangs were worse than Alyssa Milano's on Charmed.

[Arnella]

Regina MURDERS a soldier out of peak because he was wrong about Snow's whereabouts.  Immediately after, Tinkerbell shows up to yammer about Regina's love life.  She says that Regina threw away love because she feels she doesn't deserve it in such a way that indicates Regina SHOULD feel that she deserves love.

Her murder victim's body is still warm on the ground and laying in front of the terrorized villagers who have surely heard about that other village that is now just a pile of bodies.  I wonder if they all think Regina deserves love?  I wonder what Tinkerbell thinks they and dead man deserve?

[Curio]

5 minutes ago, Arnella said:

Regina MURDERS a soldier out of peak because he was wrong about Snow's whereabouts. 

Plot twist! That random soldier was Emma's cousin's father! Damn, is Emma going to be pissed! Just wait until Emma tears off her BFF necklace and throws it in Regina's face!

Oh wait, is that not how this works?

[Eolivet]

I was actually OK with this episode until that terrible cop-out of an ending, which I hated with the power of a thousand burning suns on Doctor Who, and I hated almost as much here. "The other me can go have happiness with my true love!" is such. bad. writing. It's writers being unable to let go of a couple, and inventing some cheat to keep them together. Instead of angst and pathos and heartbreak, we get the Mega-Happy Ending.

I knew as soon as they sent Robin away that they were going to go with the Doctor Who ending and not like I should expect good storytelling on this show, but that is such lazy storytelling, and it's not even original! At least in the past, I feel like these writers have found a way to be lazy, but original.

(This story gets slightly more points than Doctor Who in that it was actually half of Regina and not her effing hand that transformed into a person. I will never be over that heinous cheat of an ending -- ever!)

[Curio]

13 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

The only thing I can think of is that Hook showed her the page August gave him -- it just showed Robert at Pleasure Island, right, not the murder itself? So Hook might have passed on the page, and Emma recognized him from that.

I know I already quoted and responded to this once already, but I just had a thought. Even if Hook showed the page to Emma, aren't the illustrations in Henry's storybook supposed to be somewhat ambiguous and not extremely photorealistic or detailed? If they were super photorealistic, then Season 1's entire plot falls apart because Emma should have been weirded out by how accurate the illustrations were to the Storybrooke counterparts. When Hook was holding the page that August gave him, the illustration had a filter over it to give it a slight illustrative look, but it definitely was not a photograph. If that's all Emma saw, then I doubt she would have been able to tell that was David's father right away, especially since there's nothing especially unique about Robert's look and she was standing all the way across the room and spying over Killian's shoulder. I could see her being inquisitive about it and asking if it's Robert, but the way the scene played, it's as if David showed Emma photographs of Robert her entire life and she could easily spot him in a crowd.

Quote

What I was wondering was how Hook got the memory into a dreamcatcher. Doesn't that require magic? Have we seen someone get memories into dreamcatchers without having magic powers?

I think we're supposed to assume that Hook and David are super pros when it comes to making magic potions and stuff now after their bromantic adventure. Either that, or Hook has some residual Dark One magic inside him.

[srpturtle80]

2 hours ago, cdp73 said:

Screw the lousy storyline...I just wish they'd stop cutting Ginnifer's hair with a weedeater.  Those chewed up bangs were worse than Alyssa Milano's on Charmed.

That was the only thing I could focus on during the Snow/Killian scene. She's obviously a gorgeous woman but I really don't think that haircut does her any favors. It's really bad. 

[iMonrey]

I'd like to be optimistic and think the whole "Evil Queen" thing is over with but I suspect sending her off to another realm just leaves the door open for her eventual return. I really wish the show had done something else if they wanted to "redeem" Regina, like revealing she herself was under a spell or possessed or something. Because  as long as she was operating under her own free will, there's really no "redeeming" her. She made all those choices herself, not because she was under someone or something's malevolent influence, but because she wanted to. She'd snap some random villager's neck just for giving her bad intel on Snow's location. That's on her. She doesn't even have to go to jail for mass murder? She just has to turn over a new leaf and say she's sorry for her to be forgiven? In what universe can that be considered justice?

Quote

First, what the heck is up with Snow's hair?  It's shorter than ever and buzzed in the back.  It's so much more flattering an inch or so longer.

Agreed. Does Ginnifer Goodwin have alopecia or something? That is the most unflattering hairstyle imaginable, especially with the extra baby weight. She looks like a little boy.

[Curio]

10 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

She just has to turn over a new leaf and say she's sorry for her to be forgiven? In what universe can that be considered justice?

I'd like to welcome you to the Once Upon a Time universe where keeping a secret is worse than murder. Did you snap a villager's neck and put Snow and Charming under a sleeping curse? Eh, whatever, as long as you tell the truth about it and apologize eventually. Now let's give you a happy ending! Did you dig through your boyfriend's personal belongings without his permission, open a box that clearly has a ring inside it, take the ring out, and hold onto it the rest of the day? Totally fine, as long as you immediately confess you did it and truthfully admit you violated his personal privacy. Feel guilty about murdering your girlfriend's grandfather and take a few days to keep it a secret? Screw you! How dare you keep a secret!

[Mathius]

13 minutes ago, Curio said:

I'd like to welcome you to the Once Upon a Time universe where keeping a secret is worse than murder.

Unless you're Snow White, in which case telling a secret is worse.

[oncebluethrone]

47 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Agreed. Does Ginnifer Goodwin have alopecia or something? That is the most unflattering hairstyle imaginable, especially with the extra baby weight. She looks like a little boy.

I've read somewhere that she hates having long hair.

[Rumsy4]

50 minutes ago, Curio said:

I'd like to welcome you to the Once Upon a Time universe where keeping a secret is worse than murder. 

36 minutes ago, Mathius said:

Unless you're Snow White, in which case telling a secret is worse.

This is the less discussed SEC (Snow Exception Clause).

12 minutes ago, oncebluethrone said:

I've read somewhere that she hates having long hair.

I've read that too. But does she want to look terrible? In her non-OUAT life, her hair is made up to look flattering (although I felt her Oscar-hairstyle wasn't really a good look on her). 

Edited March 27, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Writing Wrongs]

I laugh every time Gideon shows up in his hooded cloak and then drops the hood for dramatic effect. Dude, everyone knows who you are. It's not dramatic any more.

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I was actually OK with this episode until that terrible cop-out of an ending, which I hated with the power of a thousand burning suns on Doctor Who, and I hated almost as much here. "The other me can go have happiness with my true love!" is such. bad. writing. It's writers being unable to let go of a couple, and inventing some cheat to keep them together. Instead of angst and pathos and heartbreak, we get the Mega-Happy Ending.

Yes, I was thinking about that, as well. I was not a Rose fan, so I hated it on Doctor Who, too. It's the ultimate in Mary Sue writing, twisting the laws of the story and the universe to give your avatar everything she wants -- so Robin and Regina can't be together, but alternate versions of them can be!

Maybe I'll see it differently when I get to watch the whole episode, but the "Regina hates herself more than anything" thing doesn't ring true to me. She's definitely her own worst enemy, in that the decisions she makes to make herself happy only end up making her more unhappy, but she's a raging narcissist. Hating herself has never been her problem. She didn't reject the man with the tattoo because she didn't feel she deserved love but rather because she wanted her revenge more than she wanted love, and she didn't care that by rejecting that meeting she'd also affected his life. The first time we had the slightest inkling of anything resembling self loathing was when she related to Hook's inability to forgive himself and think himself worthy of being brought back to life, and then it was a big "Whaaaa?" And then there was the out of nowhere "I hate being good" speech at the end of last season. This season, I could believe that if Regina had thrown that arrow, it would have hit the Evil Queen that she blames for all her woes, but I don't for a second believe it of Regina during the era of that flashback. This was a woman who put her desire for happiness ahead of her father's life. That's not a person who hates herself more than anyone else. Even once she was supposedly redeemed, she spent an entire season focused on the idea that she deserved to have the rules of the universe rewritten so she could get what she wanted. She was able to listen to Robin talk about the hell he went through after losing Marian, then learn she was responsible for him losing Marian, and not have even a moment to feel bad about causing pain to someone she supposedly loved, not have a moment of feeling happy for him getting his wife back, but instead could only focus on how Emma ruined her life by not letting her execute Marian. She'd be the last person that arrow would go after. It would have hit Snow first, then created a portal to go to Wonderland and kill Cora, then probably come back and at least try to hit Rumple, then kill all the villagers who love Snow more than her, until finally the only people left standing are her and her father.

10 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

It didn't come across to me that Emma was upset about the murder or the lying. She was pissed that he was trying to erase the memory entirely rather than trusting in her and their relationship to deal with the problem. If he doesn't have that trust, then they really shouldn't be getting married.

The problem there for me is that trusting in her really didn't have anything to do with his problem. As he said, he couldn't sit across the table from her parents, knowing what he knew. I'm not sure that anything could make that better. Telling her and facing them together wouldn't change that. The only thing that could fix it is getting rid of that memory. Now, maybe he should have told her and let her help him with the memory, but given his guilt complex, even if Snow and Charming were totally okay with it (unlikely), he would still feel bad, it would still taint his relationship with them. That has nothing to do with trust. Plus there's the fact that he really has no guarantee that they would be okay with it. Maybe Snow, given that she's best buds with the woman who murdered her father, but unless there's been lots of offscreen bonding, Snow hadn't ever directly addressed Hook other than as a general part of a group until after that fight. Even when they were locked up together in the Land of Untold Stories, she didn't say anything about being glad he was still alive, never thanked him for getting himself killed saving her life (since that was what would have killed him if Emma hadn't intervened). He has no reason to believe Snow would be okay with things because until this episode he didn't know where he stood with her. Just two days ago, David was calling him names because of what he believed might be true about Hook's past, in spite of all the good Hook has done recently. And they can't even sit down and discuss this together with her parents because both her parents can't be awake at the same time.

So while I believe that Emma does have some point about being honest with her -- hypocritical as it is -- and that he shouldn't have proposed without coming clean, I think they were having two separate arguments here. She was focused on trust and acting like if he'd trusted her, they could work things out, but he was saying that he couldn't live with it, and trust wasn't going to change that. But I'm not sure the writer realized that was what she wrote.

Then there's the fact that giving the ring back is the nuclear option in a relationship. It doesn't really say "We're still together, but we need to work some things out before we're ready to get married" unless that's what you actually say, and then giving the ring back is kind of overkill. Giving the ring back says "it's over," with a bonus "get out" if you're living together. Giving the ring back without a very specific condition for restoring the relationship is keeping the ball in her court -- she's the one who broke the engagement, so she's the one who gets to say when it's back on, but he doesn't have anything specific to be able to do to get it back on. I guess he has to keep re-proposing until she says yes again? As she's gazing out the windows wonder where he is, all I could think was "You gave the ring back, and you expect him to come home?" That outcome would have worked better if she didn't take the ring off and hand it back to him, but rather told him he needed to talk to her parents, and he flipped out and ran off. Then she'd have room to worry about him not coming back. When you send the message "it's over, get out," you can't wonder why he didn't come home.

And then there's this ...

12 hours ago, Curio said:

I couldn't be sad about Emma coming home to an empty home because we've never really seen Killian and Emma live in the house together. Like, we don't even know their routine, what they do before bed at night, if they even sleep in the same freaking bedroom... Like, those are important domestic scenes you need to show on screen in order for your sad break up scene to have any emotional impact. Who knows, maybe Killian likes to drink at the Rabbit Hole late every night, so Emma should be used to him not coming home right away. How would I know?

Last week, I actually found it a little weird that he just opened the door and walked in, and then I realized that it's actually his house, too. But we've never seen him coming home like it was his home. We've never seen him and Emma at home. We don't know what their normal evening routine is. Is he always there waiting for her? Is he always coming home late? What does she think about coming home to find someone there? Is she used to that or still used to being single?

[tennisgurl]

*rubs head to ward off headache*

Why does everyone just let these super powered bad guys just wander around?!?! Shouldn't Belle have warned people that her son was gunning for Emma? Shouldn't they be looking for him? Why is everyone so cool with multiple supervillains just hanging out?!?!

Lets start with a few good thing: We got an actual Snow and Hook scene! Its a totally new thing on this show! And the in law talks with Hook and the Charming's always kind of crack me up because they look basically the same age as Hook, despite being future in laws. Those curses and time travelers sure do make family pictures look weird! Also, we actually got a follow up with Captain Nemo and his crew! I thought they would disappear into Offscreen Land! Captain Nemo is awesome. He actually gives good advice without being weird or judgmental. So of course he had to go. Also, Sean clearly enjoys playing Bad Robin, so he was fun. And a Tinkerbelle cameo was nice to see.

Now onto the...questionable. I'm glad we got the whole secret thing out of the way, but Emma's reaction kind of baffled me. She seemed more mad that he was removing the memory than the fact that he killed David's dad and hid it from her. Which, actually worked out alright for me. It would be the height of hypocrisy for Emma to be all pissed off about something that happened years ago, when she's forgiven Regina and Zelena for all the worst shit they did recently. What I don't buy is her immediately calling off the engagement. She knows how much he angsts about his past, couldn't she just be like "I know how you were, and I know your not that person, we can work through this", and just work on their communication issues? Really, it seems like Emma came off worse here. Although, I also call bullshit on Hook not even writing Emma a note that he was off to find himself or something. Uggggg!

So the whole EQ arc and Bad Hood existed solely to film an OutlawQueen AU fanfic. Dear God. Also, add that random soldier to the ever expanding list of Regina's (Oh, I mean the Evil Queen) victims. But, he wasn't related to a main character, so who cares?

[Arnella]

4 hours ago, Curio said:

Plot twist! That random soldier was Emma's cousin's father! Damn, is Emma going to be pissed! Just wait until Emma tears off her BFF necklace and throws it in Regina's face!

Oh wait, is that not how this works?

Exactly!  Remember when Emma went back in time and actually witnessed Regina burn Emma's own mother alive and laugh while she did it.  An hour later she returns having rescued another woman from a similar fate at Regina's hands.  Not only does she NOT demand an explanation or apology from Regina, she seems to have forgotten this HORRIFIC event altogether.  Then she ends up apologizing to Regina because the person she rescued was Regina's new boyfriend's wife and totally ruined her dating plans. 

Just keep going Killian - even going to hell and back for this woman won't get the forgiveness and acceptance that Regina gets for just being Woegina. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by Arnella

[Mari]

6 hours ago, asabovesobelow said:

 I greatly dislike the fact that they didn't merge and the Evil Queen is now an entirely different being living in a wish realm that makes no sense. Why not just keep going? Split yourself up a hundred times, keep touching hearts so there's a little bit of you in every one, and populate the earth with clones of yourself. One of them is bound to get a happy ending. 

And if you did that, could you eventually re-merge so that you all get the happy ending?  (Which is a ridiculous term.  It's more like a happy beginning. At least happily ever after shows that you keep going.)

[Curio]

7 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am going to avoid reading most of the post 

You might be missing out on some good discussion though. 

Quote

And I don't want to give everyone an aneurism so I will just say that I liked the concept that NotRobin is actually the Evil Queens happy Ending and not Regina's.

This was actually the first time I enjoyed watching Outlaw Queen. The Evil Queen mocking Robin for sleeping in mud and Robin giving sass right back is what their relationship should have been all along. We kind of got a little bit of it in the missing year during 3B, but it always came off stilted and heavy-handed. This episode was the first time where the actors' chemistry worked and I was rooting for them.

Is there a term for being underwhelmed yet shocked at the same time? That's how I feel about this whole Double Regina resolution. On the one hand I'm glad it's finally over, but on the other it doesn't feel resolved. I feel like Double Regina has been this dark cloud dragging the entire show down since the Season 5 finale because we all knew how utterly predictable the ending would be, and for the most part we were correct, but the writers still managed to end it in a way that wasn't entirely satisfying. And the fact that the resolution happened randomly in the middle of an arc is weird timing, so I feel like it's not over yet. Shouldn't that have been the midseason finale instead? 

[Shanna Marie]

1 minute ago, Curio said:

Shouldn't that have been the midseason finale instead? 

Yeah, that would have worked -- resolve one arc, set up another cliffhanger with Hook's disappearance. Yay, the Evil Queen is gone, but now what's going to become of Hook?

Except I think to be the mid-season finale, they'd have also needed to break the Charmings' curse, unless something Hook finds on his adventure has something to do with that, and that's how they're going to bring him back to the fold.

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, Arnella said:

Regina MURDERS a soldier out of peak because he was wrong about Snow's whereabouts.  Immediately after, Tinkerbell shows up to yammer about Regina's love life.  She says that Regina threw away love because she feels she doesn't deserve it in such a way that indicates Regina SHOULD feel that she deserves love.

Her murder victim's body is still warm on the ground and laying in front of the terrorized villagers who have surely heard about that other village that is now just a pile of bodies.  I wonder if they all think Regina deserves love?  I wonder what Tinkerbell thinks they and dead man deserve?

After Regina left the villagers beat up Tinkerbelle for that, she managed to flee with her life or play dead until it was safe and fled back to Neverland where she's been hiding out from the villagers when Regina showed up years later she was going to kill her was going to be her ticket to getting her wings back and going home.

[Curio]

Wow, I literally just made the connection that the resolution to this Double Regina plot is exactly the same plan Regina and Henry had for Operation Dumbass. This entire plot ended with Regina convincing The Author to give her a happy ending. That's literally Operation Mongoose in a nutshell. So that's why it feels like such a cheap ending...because it is.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Arnella said:

Exactly!  Remember when Emma went back in time and actually witnessed Regina burn Emma's own mother alive and laugh while she did it.  An hour later she returns having rescued another woman from a similar fate at Regina's hands.  Not only does she NOT demand an explanation or apology from Regina, she seems to have forgotten this HORRIFIC event altogether.  Then she ends up apologizing to Regina because the person she rescued was Regina's new boyfriend's wife and totally ruined her dating plans. 

Just keep going Killian - even going to hell and back for this woman won't get the forgiveness and acceptance that Regina gets for just being Woegina. 

That's like when Robin was telling the Evil Queen what would happen if she killed Regina. How upset the entire town would be. Ah, no the entire town would be so happy that the person who ruined their lives, massacred villages and etc. is dead. At least until they realizes there's still the Evil Queen left. Maybe that's why the town is mostly vacant everyone else is back in the Enchanted Forest happily enjoying their lives without Regina or Rumple. The few still there are only to keep tabs and to warn them if it looks like Regina and/or Rumple maybe coming back or dead and it looks like its sticking.