S05.E03: The Midges

[scrb]

They may have Misha finally meet Phillip for the season finale.

[minamurray78]

1 hour ago, rlc said:

Was that Svetlana from The Sopranos?

Yep. Alla Kliouka, looks like she's scheduled to appear in next week's episode too.

[gwhh]

1 hour ago, MissBluxom said:

Let me predict the three most common probabilities - a girl or drugs or a criminal gang.

Good idea.  But family ties tv show takes place in Ohio. 

Edited March 23, 2017 by gwhh

[Bretton]

1.) Remember the twist when we learned the kid was the one that killed his (Russian agent) parents and sister? I'm left wondering what twist might be in store for us this time around. Could it be the Russians are staging the story about wheat to cover their own internal ineptitude at feeding the Soviet populace?

2.) Kinda strange to find a thread where the women are commenting sexually about one of the male characters rather than the other way around. You don't see that too often. So, to offer a little balance, E sure looked hot in the cowgirl routine. ;)

Edited March 23, 2017 by Bretton

[magemaud]

My "Martha Sighting" was kind of spoiled since I was looking up some info on IMDB on my tablet and saw her name listed in the credits for the episode. Alison Wright sure has been busy since the last time we saw at the safe house. She's been on "Sneaky Pete" and she also has a role on "Feud." I wonder if she'll be on again, or was that the one nod to the viewers that she was, indeed, safely relocated to the Soviet Union. And someone please refresh my memory, would she and Oleg ever have crossed paths in the US? 

[VCRTracking]

(Me watching as Oleg leaves the Soviet supermarket):

"Geez, that lady by the shelf is being awfully picky considering there aren't a lot of choic-HOLY SHIT IT'S MARTHA!"

Edited March 23, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Anela]

8 hours ago, stagmania said:

Am I the only one who thought that Elizabeth was comforting Phillip in that hotel scene, not manipulating him? I don't really understand the need to read dastardly intentions into every single thing she does. She loves Phillip. He was troubled, and she had no reassurances to offer. So she did a totally normal thing that happens in all relationships and tried to distract him from his troubles with a little romance. I thought it was a nice scene.

As a few others have mentioned (I had all your lovely posts quoted and then lost them, dammit), Elizabeth absolutely has real feelings and cares deeply about her family and her cause. I've never believed that Elizabeth is sociopathic, and I don't think what we've seen on the show really supports that idea. She had a whole arc last season where she was struggling to deal with her emotions and creeping doubts. Her cause, while hard for many of us to understand or support, means a great deal to her and inspires real feeling. That makes her sympathetic to me, even if I do sometimes get frustrated that she doesn't question things as much as Phillip does. Really intrigued by @sistermagpie's idea about what Mischa's appearance could bring out in her (which I agree is a more interesting question than what it would inspire in Phillip).

On the issue of the realism of this pests plot, did everyone see this article today about the real life inspiration? 

I don't read dastardly things into everything she does. I was surprised they didn't use it as another excuse for her to get naked. There seems to be some sort of rule, that she get naked so many times per season. 

[Ina123]

23 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Speaking of Henry, his continued absence has to lead to something, right? It is kind of joke, at this point.

I expect Henry to just waltz in one evening with a mustache and beard and say. "We need to talk. My girlfriend is pregnant." P and E both exclaim, "What girlfriend?"

[stagmania]

7 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't understand how their relationship as portrayed on the show makes sense as just Elizabeth fucking this guy into staying with his job. It doesn't make sense as a motivation as most of her actions, if any. Or his.

About the only way one can read their relationship this way is to ignore the vast majority of what has happened between them and the very explicit plot lines that have been about Elizabeth's evolving emotional connection to Phillip. It really doesn't make sense.

It's also not lost on me that Phillip is the one who snapped a guy's spine in two this episode, and yet the vast majority of conversation has been about Elizabeth's morality or lack thereof. I've always thought it was such a smart choice to flip the expected gender dynamic in this relationship, but it seems to have resulted in a female character being judged far more harshly than I believe her male counterpart would be if their respective roles had followed more traditional emotional profiles.

Edited March 23, 2017 by stagmania

[Umbelina]

I don't think Elizabeth uses sex as a tool with Philip regularly.  At all.  I also don't think she's evil, or even lying to Paige about their job "saving the world."  She honestly believes that's what she's doing.

However, in that cowboy hat scene, Philip was further down the "I don't believe this shit anymore and I want out" rabbit hole than he's shown himself to be (to Elizabeth) for a LONG time.  Her go-to was sex, bring him back into the fold, or at least the reason he is doing all this, for HER. 

Do I think it was nefarious or calculated?  No, I don't.  Do I think she automatically used that?  Yes, I do.  I think Philip knew it as well, but they both just went with it, because talking was just going to lead to the underlying argument they've had for years now.  He wants to quit it all, and he'd prefer to live in America, and he's sure as hell prefer his kids could, and live their own lives, far away from the KGB, FBI, or CIA.  He wants Elizabeth SO much, that he's even willing to settle for living in USSR with her, and the kids he knows will be miserable there.  They are both too trained in sex to not know what just happened there.

Misha is going to bring all of it to a head I think.  I was a little irritated with the story, but now I'm loving it.   BTW, Why are we calling Misha "Mischa?"  Is the show writing it that way?  Миша is Misha.  No C sound or hard sound.  Native Russian speaker please correct me if I'm wrong, or it's some other name.  ???

This season started out slow, and the endless digging scene, which according to the insider podcasts actually took tons of work and money, didn't help matters.  They had to plant all that wheat to be ready in time for filming as well, and got the scene done right before the first frost, but apparently didn't have budget left to fix the autumnal trees.  I give that a pass, because they don't have the massive budget of other shows, but still...

Now however, the season is picking up speed and interest for me with this last episode.  I found myself really liking Misha and that story, interested in the Russian family as well, and Tuan is just so outspoken with such a fresh point of view, I'm enjoying him as well.  The only thing that irritates me is Paige, but if this all comes down to Philip or Elizabeth choosing the kids, including Misha, I guess it will make sense.

I'm rewatching seasons on DVD's.  Henry has so many quiet little moments and his acting is spot on in those.  One deleted scene has him asking Paige if she told anyone what Henry did to the creepy guy that picked them up when Paige was hitch-hiking.  She assured him that NO, she didn't.  She tells him he was brave, and he reminds her he pissed his pants.  Other scenes where the parental unit leaves him alone and rushes to Paige (several) and he just looks so resigned/sad.  That has to be deliberate.

He had JUST gone upstairs when the Pastor's wife rushed in screaming about Russians killing her husband and blackmailing/threatening them.  Minutes before his mom and called up to him, and he answered back (about not clearing his plate.)  Later Philip tells Elizabeth that Henry had his door closed and said he heard yelling but not the words.

REALLY?  What kid hears yelling downstairs and doesn't listen?  Open the door a crack and listen to make sure his family is OK, or just out of curiosity? 

Henry may already know so much more than they realize.  As sick as I am of Paige, I'm ready for the other budding teenager to get a story.  I hope it happens.

Russia wouldn't sabotage US grain, they were finally being allowed to buy it again, and they needed it.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Umbelina
page isn't Paige

[Ina123]

Maybe at the end of the very last episode of the last season a black screen will come on to update the characters' present lives. I'd hope Martha's would be "After the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, a pardoned Martha returned to the US and married a high school sweetheart she reunited with on Facebook. They now reside in Rosslyn, VA just across the river from Washington, DC.

Something in Martha's life has to turn out good. I just can't leave her like this.

[Christina]

1 hour ago, Ina123 said:

I expect Henry to just waltz in one evening with a mustache and beard and say. "We need to talk. My girlfriend is pregnant." P and E both exclaim, "What girlfriend?"

Or yell, "Who are YOU and WHY are you in OUR house?" Then exchange glances while they are trying to remember if they had a son, and then try and figure out how their little boy got so tall. 

20 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I'm rewatching seasons on DVD's.  Henry has so many quiet little moments and his acting is spot on in those.

 

21 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

As sick as I am of Paige, I'm ready for the other budding teenager to get a story.  I hope it happens.

I really don't enjoy Holly Taylor's acting. She has two facial expressions and two tonal expressions. You can see the difference when Henry and Paige are in a scene together, and Keidrich Sellati nails a beat but Holly Taylor just raises her eyebrows into her hairline (someone here phrased that and I find it fitting). It may have been his age that allowed the acting coaches to say, "Make this expression and say the words like this..." and he followed along, but they gave more leeway to Holly, or something. I don't know what the difference is, but she will pull me right out of the scene because I'm trying to grasp if she is supposed to be anxious, or confused, or angry, or constipated. 

The kids, who are now adults, on The Middle, for example, make you believe that they are clueless (Axl), clumsy (Sue), or oblivious (Brick), and you never have to guess what they are trying to get across to you. I'll quit harping on Holly, since she is a youngun', but she bugs and the Paige storyline could be great if they would work with her a bit. I remember an interview Christian Kane gave where he said that Second Hand Lions was a movie that he wanted because even though he wouldn't be paid (his part wasn't speaking), he was taught horseback riding, sword fighting, fighting, and how to convey the scene with facial expressions when there would be no words spoken. So, it must be a trainable thing, they just aren't training her.

[Milburn Stone]

9 hours ago, whiporee said:

I don't see how P&E have a marriage in any way that can be defined the way you're defining it. They were assigned each other after both were taught to use sex as a tool to control, if not a weapon. They may care about each other, but I think any time either of them provides solace to the other, I can't see how they would possibly trust it. Elizabeth may want Phillip from time to time, but she also knows -- or at least has been taught -- that the easiest way to control a man is by fucking him. If he's losing his focus on the job, fuck him until he's back on track. 

This is all true--and they love each other, as much as any couple in real life I've ever known. Which is what makes their relationship so fascinatingly complicated.

[shura]

10 hours ago, spaceghostess said:

Mischa is my little sweetie. I feel like hugging him and giving him hot cocoa every time he's onscreen.

Yes, he is a quintessential Soviet paratrooper and Afghanistan veteran, isn't he? I have to wonder about the casting decision there.

[whiporee]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

Russia wouldn't sabotage US grain, they were finally being allowed to buy it again, and they needed it.

That depends on how you see the world. 

If you can't grow grain, and your enemy can, you're at a disadvantage. If you can't grow grain and you have to BUY grain from your enemy, you're at a real disadvantage. 

But if you can't grow grain and your enemy also can't grow grain, you're equal. 

The USSR had no direct correlation between the population and the politburo, so there was less direct incentive for them to put the good of the people over the good of the nation. In the US, if people were starving (or bread prices are sky-high) the chances are they are voted out of office. Getting removed from office was not a foreseeable consequence to the politburo. Not that they were inherently evil or wanting to starve their population, but the strength of the country was more important than the welfare of its people. 

it also makers a lot more sense from a storytelling perspective. The program is already too advanced for a random botanist to be brought in in deal with developing midge-freindly wheat. But if he brought bugs with him ... 

[SunnyBeBe]

OMG, I sure do learn a lot on this site.  I didn't even think that Elizabeth had any other motive or intent when she approached Philip in the motel for sex.  I just figured that she was thinking,  "Hey, we're in a motel room, no kids, music, hot husband and some time to kill, let's get it on!"  Turns out, it was more about politics, philosophy, manipulation,..............you could have fooled me.  I thought it looked pretty genuine. She must be very good. 

[sistermagpie]

9 hours ago, magemaud said:

And someone please refresh my memory, would she and Oleg ever have crossed paths in the US? 

Nope, never.

3 hours ago, stagmania said:

but it seems to have resulted in a female character being judged far more harshly than I believe her male counterpart would be if their respective roles had followed more traditional emotional profiles.

Another thing that's good to remember is that there's more ways to manipulate besides sex. The conflict between P&E is pretty well-known to both of them. Sometimes they fight about it openly, sometimes they snipe at each other, sometimes they make obvious gestures that are sexual or affectionate or generous. And of course, not all of this is about manipulation--good example is when Elizabeth apologizes to Philip for moving ahead on telling Paige who they are without even letting him know.

But just as Elizabeth argues her own opinions about the work, so does Philip argue his, and sometimes he's even more subtle in his influence. Again, this doesn't mean he has some longterm plan about that any more than she does, but there are times where he might, for instance, hold back from saying something because he knows that it's more convincing if he doesn't. For instance, when Elizabeth is sad about destroying her relationship with Young-hee, Philip just takes her hand. He's being genuinely sympathetic, but he's probably also letting her feel the weight of what she's done, which is exactly the thing that bothers him.  He knows the worst thing he could do is draw a parallel to Martha or whatever.

In fact, on the show on the Centre side, they all seem to see Philip as the bigger threat in terms of manipulation. Elizabeth is their star pupil who's always loyal. Philip's got her taking unauthorized trips to Germany to see her mother and asking Gabriel if he can get Philip's son out of Afghanistan. She's inspired him when his motivation was gone for sure, but he started out with motivation. It's not as big of a change.

Here, Philip threw out something he was thinking--something that isn't actually anti-Russian at all. It's something a person who cared about Russia would ask. Elizabeth obviously wasn't into discussing it, but wasn't overly defensive about his question either. I'm not sure sure his question didn't stick with Elizabeth on some level. She's good at not thinking about things she doesn't want to think about, but they can still be there underneath. If he keeps thinking about it, it might get under her skin.

2 hours ago, Christina said:

You can see the difference when Henry and Paige are in a scene together, and Keidrich Sellati nails a beat but Holly Taylor just raises her eyebrows into her hairline (someone here phrased that and I find it fitting). It may have been his age that allowed the acting coaches to say, "Make this expression and say the words like this..." and he followed along, but they gave more leeway to Holly, or something.

Fun fact, I was on the set on a day when they were filming a Paige/Henry scene and they just let them both do it as they did it. In that scene they were actually trying to give Henry more direction, I think because he was  shy about grabbing at Holly Taylor too aggressively. I think they may rehearse and do stuff outside the filming of scenes, but in the scene with the two of them and the scene I saw filmed between Philip, Elizabeth and Paige, they didn't do much in adjusting the performances in the moment. Just the one thing with Henry because I suspect it was just very obvious that he was pulling his punches physically. (Not that he was actually punching her.) At least that's what obviously seemed to be happening from my pov.

But I agree, I think KS has actually done a GREAT job with all his little scenes, making Henry a distinct individual--there's a reason why many people kind of want to see more of him rather than just dismissing him.  (Some people do, but there is a lot of general chatter about how he's obviously better spy material.) Thinking back, it's funny how much he sells some of his early pop-culture musings when we don't know how much they mean to the actor.

One thing about him is that he's got this whole performative aspect to his personality (Eddie Murphy impressions, his whole "Heyyyy, Staaan!" thing) that automatically gives him a second layer. I think writing-wise Paige has evolved a lot over the course of the show, but to many people she seems static because her scenes often get played the same way. So people are more aware of Paige doing the same things than the nuances of it.

[SailorGirl]

On 3/22/2017 at 0:04 AM, ptuscadero said:

I can relate. I immediately flashed back to Commander Salamander when I heard it.   ;-)

Oh yes! And do you by chance remember the little pizza place that EVERYONE went to after hours and they had a little band that always played "Tequila" and we all did the PeeWee Herman dance -- standing on the bench?!?!!!! Or was that just me. . . :-D

[mwell345]

I thought this was a better episode than the first two, but maybe it's because things are starting to come together....and because we got to see Martha!

(BTW, Alison Wright is also in "The Feud")

I keep thinking Paige has got to let something slip to Matthew, because there has to be some payoff to their endlessly boring scenes.

[ChromaKelly]

16 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Maybe so.  Did I read it on this thread or site that Philip's family shared one pair of pants?  That's pretty poor.  How would the viewer know this?  Was it the way they were handling the pants in the scene?  What was that knocking sound in the background?

I am having a huge case of the giggles at work at the thought of the family sharing one pair of pants. Who's turn is it for the pants? How does that even work?

[ChromaKelly]

14 hours ago, RedHawk said:

The comments about Martha being shocked going from DC supermarkets to those in the USSR give me a little chuckle. Of course, she really would have been shocked, and she sure didn't look happy with her choices of merchandise on those shelves. I laugh because in DC we have the Safeway chain of grocery stores and back in the late '70s or early '80s each one was given an alliterative nickname based on location and/or an identifying characteristic of the store. One of the best-known nicknames was for the one at 17th and Corcoran Streets, which was called the "Soviet Safeway" because it was small and the shelves were so sparsely stocked! I think Martha lived in Georgetown so likely shopped the Social Safeway, named for the upper-crust NW DC types who shopped and socialized there in their cashmere sweaters and pearls. 

For more nicknames https://markovthoughtchain.wordpress.com/2010/05/22/safeway-nicknames-in-the-dc-area/

That's funny. In Baltimore, there was a Gucci Giant. 

I have a friend who works for the State Department, and she's said it can be overwhelming to come back to a US supermarket or big box store after being in Ghana or Bulgaria for a couple years. 

[Chaos Theory]

The thing about the show I find so fascinating is that there are always multiple motives for everyone's actions.  Of course Elizabeth was using sex to keep Philip on task but that doesn't mean she doesn't have very real and very genuine feelings for him that go beyond mission.  I am no longer sure she wouldn't chose him and her family over the mission there was a time I wouldn't be able to say that.

One of the things I am actually both looking forward to / worried about is the Oleg storyline.  What will he do when blackmailed by the CIA?  He knows full well what happened to Nina and she was being run by someone who loved her.  The CIA doesn't give a crap about him.

I am finding Mischa's trek around the world kinda boring,  Move on with it already.

I sooooo want Paige to meet  Gabriel or even better Claudia.  

[spaceghostess]

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

 

Misha is going to bring all of it to a head I think.  I was a little irritated with the story, but now I'm loving it.   BTW, Why are we calling Misha "Mischa?"  Is the show writing it that way?  Миша is Misha.  No C sound or hard sound.  Native Russian speaker please correct me if I'm wrong, or it's some other name.  ???

In my case, throwing a "c" in there was just blind ignorance. Thanks for the Cyrillic spelling--very cool. I learn so much on this forum. :)

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Misha is going to bring all of it to a head I think.  I was a little irritated with the story, but now I'm loving it.   BTW, Why are we calling Misha "Mischa?"  Is the show writing it that way?  Миша is Misha.  No C sound or hard sound.  Native Russian speaker please correct me if I'm wrong, or it's some other name.  ???

 

It's definitely just supposed to be Миша. We know he's named after his father. I just spelled it like that because I saw it spelled like that first w/r/t this character. Maybe it's done to signal that it's more foreign or something? In English people just seem to do whatever the hell they want with the name. The two American actors named that spell it different ways. One's Misha, one's Mischa.

[qtpye]

On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 11:22 PM, shura said:

Honestly, she doesn't look to me any more distressed than she has always been. I don't know what Stan and Matthew are noticing there that is out of her ordinary.

I'm also not sure why Gabriel is not very confident as to what the bugs are for. I just have to assume the bugs are to be used to attack the Soviet crops, not just eat the grain shipment they are coming in from the US. What would be the point of the latter? Especially since it could be achieved without resorting to illegal biological warfare.

Cool assignment for Stan and Aderholt - follow dudes into bathrooms and hold the door for them when they leave.

Other than that, I was a little bored.

It's so funny. The show runners have said the audience is to infer that Paige is giving up on having a normal life, because she now wears her hair in a ponytail.  The actress is okay playing the clean cut sweet American teenager, but she really can not portray the angst and inner struggle that Paige must be feeling at this time.

I am beginning to think that Gabriel is full of shit.  He is at adept  at manipulating Elizabeth as Elizabeth is manipulating her marks.  He is the father figure she has always wanted.  He knows if he can get E on board P will fall into line.

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 0:17 AM, shura said:

I just couldn't understand why they and the whole room were covered in dirt. People did clean up in the Soviet Union, communal apartment or not.

 

In Soviet Russia, broom sweep you.

23 hours ago, chick binewski said:

I'm hoping this is what the're planning for Henry and not a Homeland younger-son situation where they just decide the actor isn't up to it or the story gets abandoned. I also agree about Philip's upbringing flashbacks being particularly specific. Elizabeth's home was small and dark, but there was wallpaper and her hair was combed. Philip's family was a whole other level of poverty with no interaction (except pointing out loose pants to mom?) 

For me it's very difficult to understand Elizabeth. She only lived in the USSR as a regular citizen until she was a teenager. Part of her introduction to spy life was being raped and the Centre allowing it. She's lived in the US for all of her adult life and nothing has turned her head? I'd like to see it explored why her faith in her country hasn't eroded. Regarding Paige, I believe my view of Elizabeth as a mother changed drastically during the last half of season 4. Elizabeth dropped a few bombs and sent a few looks Paige's way that made me think she'd totally take her out if the situation called for it.

I do question if Philip is always aware when Elizabeth is manipulating him. That may be due in part to the actors' chemistry - it's hard to imagine their connection isn't real. But Elizabeth kept Philip at arms length throughout their marriage and only let him in after he started his relationship with Martha; she continually pushed his buttons regarding that situation even after Martha got on the plane. I'm interested in seeing what's in store for them during the final season.

I think we all could be right.  It is not an either or situation.  Elizabeth could have genuine feeling for Phillip and still be manipulating him to tow the line.  She thinks that this is the best thing for him and probably frames it as looking out for his interests.

12 hours ago, whiporee said:

I think P&E are going to find out the USSR is the one planning the midge infestation, and that's why Alexi is here -- he was the USSR's William, doing his part for the greater good by letting the US know about the plans and the infestation. Because he knows the USSR can't grow enough grain to feed their own people, and if the US were lose its supply, world famine would possibly follow. The Center is just trying to find out what the US knows about their operation. My guess is the corporation they are going to be chasing is going to have Soviet roots. The center is going to call them off before they get there, but they'll find out. All of that -- along with Paige being coerced by E to seduce Matthew, and Misha's arrival -- is going to put Phillip on the road to defecting. 

I'm always amazed at how transparent Elizabeth is with her honey trap. Since the separation, every time she feels Phillip starting to waver in his devotion to The Cause -- like she did last year with Martha -- she turns on the seduction. Every. Single. Time. 

I wonder how things will work when Oleg meets Martha. A lot of dynamics there. 

It always leaves me in a moral quandry when P or E kill a red shirt. I know it's just a story, but I really do want to cheer for the protagonists. And they go and snap the neck of some bug guy -- and hit him with her own version of Ezekial 25:17 -- or drop a car on a guy who's just living his life. 

I think corruption and a shady government built on cronyism is starving the Soviet people and the United States is a great scape goat to take focus off their own incompetence.  Do not get me wrong, the US also does a lot of shady stuff, but life in the former Soviet Union was a miserable experience.  The people were not all equal, with an elite government class that kept and got all the privileges, like old Russian nobility.

10 hours ago, Bretton said:

1.) Remember the twist when we learned the kid was the one that killed his (Russian agent) parents and sister? I'm left wondering what twist might be in store for us this time around. Could it be the Russians are staging the story about wheat to cover their own internal ineptitude at feeding the Soviet populace?

2.) Kinda strange to find a thread where the women are commenting sexually about one of the male characters rather than the other way around. You don't see that too often. So, to offer a little balance, E sure looked hot in the cowgirl routine. ;)

I agree with your first point, though it is nothing but speculation on my part.

My husband usually finds Kerri Russell very attractive.  He hated her wig this episode.  He said she looked like a cow girl Cersei Lannister.

I realized why KH usually looks so good in these fashions.  She has an almost Brooke Shields vibe about her and Brooke was considered quite the hot girl of the early eighties.

[Wouldofshouldof]

On 3/21/2017 at 10:13 PM, Umbelina said:

Anyone here not scream "MARTHA!" when we got that little clip?

I didn't, because I couldn't remember her name, LOL.  I did, however, think to myself that my fellow PTVers would be ecstatic  : )

[dubbel zout]

14 hours ago, JennyMominFL said:

I can't be the only one who has seen the grocery store scene in Deutschland 83, can I?

You're not! I can't imagine what it must have been like to go from little to no choice and scarce supplies to an obscene level of choice and quantity.

14 hours ago, RedHawk said:

I also don't feel that Elizabeth was just "working" Philip by using sex to distract him from his questions. It occurs to me that maybe she uses it to repress her unsaid questions as well. They have been shown to be able to lose themselves in sex -- with each other -- and the intimacy comforts them.

Neither do I, and I think it's kind of insulting to Philip that Elizabeth can manipulate him so easily with sex. He's not some naïf—he's a highly trained agent like Elizabeth is. 

Edited March 23, 2017 by dubbel zout

[magemaud]

5 hours ago, Ina123 said:

On 3/22/2017 at 7:14 AM, Ellaria Sand said:

Speaking of Henry, his continued absence has to lead to something, right? It is kind of joke, at this point.

I expect Henry to just waltz in one evening with a mustache and beard and say. "We need to talk. My girlfriend is pregnant." P and E both exclaim, "What girlfriend?"

that's after they say, "And WHO are you again?" 

[magemaud]

Here's my fantasy scenario...Oleg goes back to the store and Martha is there, still trying to decide between two cans of beans. He literally runs into her, knocking the beans on the floor and Martha lets out some kind of exclamation in English and Oleg realizes she's an American. They form a friendship and eventually come to realize they both know Stan! 

[RedHawk]

11 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Misha is going to bring all of it to a head I think.  I was a little irritated with the story, but now I'm loving it.   BTW, Why are we calling Misha "Mischa?"  Is the show writing it that way?  Миша is Misha.  No C sound or hard sound.  Native Russian speaker please correct me if I'm wrong, or it's some other name.  ???

Thank you! This has bugged me for ages but I didn't bother bringing it up, hoping someone with better knowledge of Russian (mine is 35 years ago) would. Then I watched the captions for the this episode and saw that they spell it Mischa, so I figured that's where some posters are getting it. His name is Misha.

7 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

That's funny. In Baltimore, there was a Gucci Giant. 

I have a friend who works for the State Department, and she's said it can be overwhelming to come back to a US supermarket or big box store after being in Ghana or Bulgaria for a couple years. 

They tried to do alliterative nicknames for the Giant stores in DC but none really stuck. The one nearest me was for a few years the Janky Giant, until it became the Gentrified Giant. ;-)

Edited March 23, 2017 by RedHawk
Wrote "credits" when I meant "captions".

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

His name is Misha.

English spelling laughs at your rules and phonetic logic.

It does not laff at them. 

[RedHawk]

14 minutes ago, magemaud said:

Here's my fantasy scenario...Oleg goes back to the store and Martha is there, still trying to decide between two cans of beans. He literally runs into her, knocking the beans on the floor and Martha lets out some kind of exclamation in English and Oleg realizes she's an American. They form a friendship and eventually come to realize they both know Stan! 

Nah, Martha can't have TWO hot Russian guys in one lifetime! No gal gets that lucky.

[magemaud]

No, I'm not seeing a romance (Martha's not pretty enough for Oleg) just them becoming "good comrades." 

[RedHawk]

3 minutes ago, magemaud said:

No, I'm not seeing a romance (Martha's not pretty enough for Oleg) just them becoming "good comrades." 

I know, I was kidding. But even to spend an hour a day with Oleg, when all you have to look forward to otherwise is mystery meat and strange stuff from dented cans. Remember him and Nina in the "decadent Western jacuzzi" at the hotel? Sigh.

[stagmania]

18 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Thank you! This has bugged me for ages but I didn't bother bringing it up, hoping someone with better knowledge of Russian (mine is 35 years ago) would. Then I watched the credits for the this episode and saw that they spell it Mischa, so I figured that's where some posters are getting it. His name is Misha.

I'd have to go back and check, but I think they spelled it with a "C" in the subtitles...

[scartact]

5 hours ago, stagmania said:

It's also not lost on me that Phillip is the one who snapped a guy's spine in two this episode, and yet the vast majority of conversation has been about Elizabeth's morality or lack thereof. I've always thought it was such a smart choice to flip the expected gender dynamic in this relationship, but it seems to have resulted in a female character being judged far more harshly than I believe her male counterpart would be if their respective roles had followed more traditional emotional profiles.

It's certainly interesting that Elizabeth's humanity is constantly under a microscope and put into question and kind of that reminds me of Anna Gunn's NYT editorial, not that the parallel is exact since Skyler and Elizabeth are very different people. Then again, I've always found fandom just as sexist as the real world. But that's a different topic of conversation...

Topic? I like the reading that Elizabeth also uses sex to repress her own unsaid questions. Who's to say she doesn't need that comfort as much as Philip does?

[RedHawk]

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Now however, the season is picking up speed and interest for me with this last episode.  I found myself really liking Misha and that story, interested in the Russian family as well, and Tuan is just so outspoken with such a fresh point of view, I'm enjoying him as well.  The only thing that irritates me is Paige, but if this all comes down to Philip or Elizabeth choosing the kids, including Misha, I guess it will make sense.

Tuan interests me more and more, and the season is drawing me in. He seems confused actually, about his true feelings. They seemed to contradict.

For me it's time to really use Henry as a character and I also think the young actor has the chops to pull off working with his talented elders. Hoping for a really good story line for him.

I remember watching the DVDs of early seasons and also seeing deleted scenes. One reason I still like to rent or buy DVDs, because you can get the extras that streaming doesn't offer. 

4 hours ago, shura said:

Yes, he is a quintessential Soviet paratrooper and Afghanistan veteran, isn't he? I have to wonder about the casting decision there.

Perhaps being his father's true son he decided it's better to act innocent and youthful rather than tough and calculating? One possibility.

Edited March 23, 2017 by RedHawk
Changed conflicted to confused.

[RedHawk]

1 hour ago, stagmania said:

I'd have to go back and check, but I think they spelled it with a "C" in the subtitles...

Yes, I noticed they did. But that spelling in Russian phonetically would be pronounced "Mees-scha" (hard to describe the "sch" sound) not "Mee-sha". I've read that the name Mischa does exist and is even more diminutive than Misha. Sort of saying Little Mikey and not Mikey for Mike. 

Don't want to nitpick it so like the autumn leaves on the winter trees, he's got a name and so I'm letting it go...

Edited March 23, 2017 by RedHawk
Changed to SisterMagpie's better phonetic spelling and to make my song allusion work better. :-)

[RedHawk]

6 hours ago, Umbelina said:

REALLY?  What kid hears yelling downstairs and doesn't listen?  Open the door a crack and listen to make sure his family is OK, or just out of curiosity? 

Maybe a boy who is happy that his parents and sister are distracted plus he knows exactly where they are, so he can have some  alone time with his photo of Mrs. Beeman?

Seriously though, I've always assumed that Henry is listening at the top of the stairs and just lies to Paige about what he has heard. That would fit his character as we've seen it.

Edited March 23, 2017 by RedHawk

[stagmania]

8 minutes ago, scartact said:

It's certainly interesting that Elizabeth's humanity is constantly under a microscope and put into question and kind of that reminds me of Anna Gunn's NYT editorial, not that the parallel is exact since Skyler and Elizabeth are very different people. Then again, I've always found fandom just as sexist as the real world. But that's a different topic of conversation...

Topic? I like the reading that Elizabeth also uses sex to repress her own unsaid questions. Who's to say she doesn't need that comfort as much as Philip does?

Yeah, I thought of the BB parallels, as well. Audiences are so rough on female characters. And agreed, that interpretation makes a lot of sense to me. Elizabeth and Phillip are super spies, but they're also just people. They both seek comfort sometimes, and not always in healthy ways.

2 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Yes, I noticed they did. But that spelling in Russian phonetically would be pronounced "Mis-cha" (hard to describe the "sch" sound) not "Mee-sha". I've read that the name Mischa does exist and is even more diminutive than Misha. Sort of saying Little Mikey and not Mikey for Mike. 

Don't want to nitpick it so like the autumn leaves that don't belong on winter trees, he's got a name and so I'm letting it go...

I definitely believe everyone here with more knowledge of the language that the show got this wrong. But it is definitely coming from the show, not posters (press reviews are spelling it that way, too). 

[sistermagpie]

7 minutes ago, stagmania said:

I definitely believe everyone here with more knowledge of the language that the show got this wrong. But it is definitely coming from the show, not posters (press reviews are spelling it that way, too). 

I don't think it's wrong, though. It's just that this is the way the show's spelling his name in English. It's not like when people say Mischa Barton's name they pronounce it like "Mees-scha." Everyone's pronouncing it correctly no matter how it's spelled. They just went with an English spelling that throws in an extra letter that's silent and unnecessary. 

Maybe it's to match his sister "Paige." :-)

[qtpye]

Do you guys think we might see mail robot in Russia...perhaps wearing a head scarf?

[RedHawk]

I miss Mail Robot. Maybe he ordered that hit on Gaad?

[TexasGal]

17 hours ago, RedHawk said:

The comments about Martha being shocked going from DC supermarkets to those in the USSR give me a little chuckle. Of course, she really would have been shocked, and she sure didn't look happy with her choices of merchandise on those shelves. I laugh because in DC we have the Safeway chain of grocery stores and back in the late '70s or early '80s each one was given an alliterative nickname based on location and/or an identifying characteristic of the store. One of the best-known nicknames was for the one at 17th and Corcoran Streets, which was called the "Soviet Safeway" because it was small and the shelves were so sparsely stocked! I think Martha lived in Georgetown so likely shopped the Social Safeway, named for the upper-crust NW DC types who shopped and socialized there in their cashmere sweaters and pearls. 

For more nicknames https://markovthoughtchain.wordpress.com/2010/05/22/safeway-nicknames-in-the-dc-area/

Hah!  I was in DC in the 90's for college and we shopped at the Social Safeway, and even called it the Social Safeway, but had no idea why were calling it that.  Glad to finally know.

I also share the dream that Martha and Oleg will meet somehow.  I know it probably won't happen but it would make me happy.

[topanga]

Love everyone's posts. Two questions:

• Did Stan & Aderholt approach the same guy twice, or were they two different guys? And what's the deal behind their actions, anyway? Are they recruiting an asset? Trying to get info?
• What's the Centre going to do with William's poisoned flesh? 

[RedHawk]

3 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

Oh yes! And do you by chance remember the little pizza place that EVERYONE went to after hours and they had a little band that always played "Tequila" and we all did the PeeWee Herman dance -- standing on the bench?!?!!!! Or was that just me. . . :-D

Taking my response to this and another about the Social Safeway to the "From Shoulder Pads to Huge VCR's: The Style and Decor of the 80's" thread. Come reminisce about DC life in the '80s (Chocolate City and Revolution Summer!) and what Henry and Paige really would have been doing in their teen years.

Edited March 23, 2017 by RedHawk

[Eulipian 5k]

17 hours ago, RedHawk said:

So the lady watching the parking lot (and the black male lookout) would have to get rid of car and body.

I kinda thought that Phillip going over to the lookout car was the notification that they should now dispose of the car. Since the idea of the head honcho's car with the STINKING DEAD BODY in the trunk would be a total tip off that the lab was broken into. Liz cleaned blood off the lab window before they left so I don't think the car & body will be left there to be discovered.

[dubbel zout]

7 minutes ago, topanga said:

Did Stan & Aderholt approach the same guy twice, or were they two different guys? And what's the deal behind their actions, anyway? Are they recruiting an asset? Trying to get info?

Two different guys; yes to trying to recruit an asset and get info.

[Kathemy]

21 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I love how almost everyone seems to have had the same reaction of shock and excitment at seeing Martha alive. It's also a great tease for the audience, because now that we know she's alive that means there's the potential to see her again. It lets the audience play a guessing game/debate whether or not we'll see her again. 

You know, I don't really want it to be true, but in "shipping terms" Martha may be Philip's endgame. As in, I could envision a future with him extracted to the Soviet Union with or without the kids, Elizabeth dead, and him reuniting with her.

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, Kathemy said:

As in, I could envision a future with him extracted to the Soviet Union with or without the kids, Elizabeth dead, and him reuniting with her.

That sounds like it would be absolutely torture for Philip and for Martha too.