AI in the Media

[MsTree]

I don't think it would flop if done right. Ryan alone did NOT make AI a hit. It was Simon Cowell. Everyone tuned in to see/hear the honest Brit's "tough love". They also enjoyed the opposite critiques of Simon & Paula, and after a while, the banter between Simon & Ryan. It became a well-oiled machine.

There's no reason why it can't happen again.

[MarkHB]

The more recent stories I've seen say that Ryan is still a possibility (they'd go live Sunday night at 5 in LA and Ryan would be there courtesy of NetJets). 

[holly4755]

Well you will never hear honest criticism from the JLo/Harry/Keith judges because they were falling all over themselves to be the "nice guy"  that and hogging the television time as if we really wanted to see more of them.  I liked it when the contestants were center, and I even enjoyed the Ford commercials wondering how they could get these future artists to be embarrass themselves, but in a smiley way, not mean. and I could do wit never having to hear lip synced autotuned Jlo again ever or watch her "shake her booty" for 5 minutes when the contestants get 45 seconds for a song.  the show never needs to be 2 hours and they never needed a 1 hour results show of major filler.  I like themes but you really can't say yo have a theme and then people perform pretty much anything.  

I think the failing came when they decided they had to have the 18-45 demo, before they had everything but. 

 

One of the best judges they ever had was Gladys Knight, and she was on their kid show,  not fond of the kids but she gave criticism in a positive way to help them improve, she did not pull punches, now the kids were not as interesting to watch, but she really did have a  way with judging.  And she never performed and never upstaged the kids. She is too old, but there must be someone else in the business who could do that. 

[Artsda]

It's official. ABC announced it.

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/05/american-idol-return-abc-ryan-seacrest-1201814187/

[Gemma Violet]

They need a complete shake-up of this show.  Bring it back to what it used to be in the early years.  Make it about the singers, not the judges.   The last couple of seasons, there were more camera shots of JLo than all the contestants put together.  Because of course we want to see a close-up of JLo when a contestant is performing, right?  (snark) (I guess the producers wanted to justify paying her that enormous salary.)  Get rid of all the strobe lights and craziness.  Get back to basics.  And get three judges who won't worry about hurting feelings.  We need another Simon Cowell and a couple of other people who have backbone.  Maybe include a former contestant as a judge.  I'm OK with Ryan coming back to host.  He's the only thing that stayed consistent all through the series.

[holly4755]

Why Gemma Violet, you could be Clay Aiken, who knew? 

Clay Aiken tells us what ABC’s “American Idol” reboot has to get right

[SnarkyTart]

4 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

(I guess the producers wanted to justify paying her that enormous salary.)  

If they weren't paying such enormous salaries to JLo and the other judges, maybe they could have afforded to pay the licensing fees for songs written in this century.

[Neet]

Even though many of the rumored details are unconfirmed, the show would be crippled from the outset if they were true.

No Ryan Seacrest would pretty much make the show be known as 'American Idol' by name only, although it makes sense if ABC could get away with paying a new host less money, since Ryan was making $15 million per season. Unless this was said by a commenter and not a real source, apparently Idol might get taped in New York, which could prevent the need for Ryan to travel between LA and NY constantly for Idol/Live. Maybe Nick Cannon would be a decent replacement host, though his lively personality that worked for AGT might cheapen a show that's a little bit more serious.

Starting the show in March sounds like changing things just for the sake of change. Of course the "Idol's coming back" promo and buzz will let everyone know when the premier is, but if viewers were accustomed to a season that started in January for 15 years, why mess with it? That better not also mean that the new series will only air from March to May, like I've seen speculated. A 12 week season is pitifully short, just like 2016's season was criticized for being too brief. With the television climate reduced to the lows it's at now due to competition from streaming, you would expect ABC to seek a proper return for the money spent on obtaining the Idol IP by getting as many episodes as possible.

I can't remember if this was reported by the usually unreliable TMZ or somewhere else, but I heard a rumor of the revival season airing on Sundays. Unless this was only inspired by trying to figure out how Ryan could format his schedule in order to host, what's the point? Especially for something like a live talent show, airing on the weekend seems so tacky. Sundays are hailed as the golden night for TV, except most of the shows people watch on Sundays are dramas. (Game of Thrones, Walking Dead, etc.) Other than that, FOX airs new episodes of The Simpsons, Family Guy, and Bob's Burgers. Those shows make sense to air on that day, and even if it did, I doubt most TV viewers would pick American Idol over all of the other shows. It can't just be recorded to the PVR for later when voting and results are the main part of the show, so ABC hoping to compete with everything else would probably be a disaster once the newness of Idol wears off. Tuesday-Thursday was deemed as a suitable time by the upwards of 40 million viewers at the (long ago) peak, so why change it and risk alienating more people. Seems like another pointless change, if true.

All new judges is a good thing. Nobody will miss Jennifer Lopez and her constant closeups. Her and the rest of the panel were borderline sycophantic to the contestants, it gets boring to hear how everyone's amazing, or a thick euphemism for "you sucked"...."but you're beautiful". Kelly Clarkson would be an okay judge, if for nothing else but bridging the gap between old and new iterations of Idol, but at the same time, the franchise getting a refresh may mean wanting to exclude references to the distant past. It's not like Kelly is a forgotten relic who stopped being relevant long ago, but having the season one winner in such a prominent role only emphasizes "hey, look at the star power this show made 15 years ago!" The old contestants were already heavily celebrated throughout the last season, it's done. I don't get why some are advocating for people like Melinda Doolittle to get a spot at the table - American Idol is essentially a game show, but presented as a gateway to the music industry, so it makes more sense to have the judges be people with a good amount of pull in the business, famous or not. Middle aged women are still deifying Adam Lambert and saying he has to judge the new season, I've never got what's so magnetic about him that he needs to keep coming back to the show. He sings with Queen, it sounds like he's plenty busy.

With only a year without Idol, it feels like the reboot is going to flop. Not enough time was spent away to make enough people miss it, Ryan might not even host, the music industry is bloated as hell with the barrier to entry being much easier than before, etc.. I'll watch, but unless more details are revealed and it sounds promising, I expect a very bastardized version that will get quickly cancelled and made fun of for years to come.

[MarkHB]

2 hours ago, Neet said:

Starting the show in March sounds like changing things just for the sake of change.

I think for this season it's logistics: they're way behind on auditions, etc., and need the time to set everything up. It's like the first season being a summer show.

The other possibility is, I wonder if they're thinking of taking DWTS back to Fall only, and putting Idol into that Spring slot after the Bachelor wraps.

[Neet]

That makes complete sense; a common reaction to the rumors of Idol coming back next year was that it was too early to get started now, but that was probably from assuming it had to air in January. As long as they don't trim too much off the series or at least have results shows, it's fine.

 

[holly4755]

Well,. advocating for Melinda Doolittle is not so much because she was an idol. but because she was a sharp and amusing critic on her on-line reviews. She has a really good ear and she has helpful criticisms. This is not idol for idol's dake, she has shown the ability to criticize and get her point across and still be likeable herself.  You don't have to be hated to be a critic, but you do have to criticize. 

[Wings]

Ryan was the glue on AI.   He has not been ruled out yet and I trust they will do everything they can to accommodate him.  

The only way this will fly is having Simon, Paula and Randy as judges again.  With this combo it was less about the judges because they were not fighting to be the best expert, among other things. None of them were singers or had active careers to boost.   As tired as I was with Randy and his dawg speak, I would welcome a nostalgic reboot.  

[Neet]

@holly4755 That's true, I forgot to mention her doing Reality Check. If she hadn't done those videos, I'd think anyone mentioning her of all people to come back were insane because of how random it'd be. I was going to question if making reviews is proof enough of being a decent judge on TV, but then again, most other judges don't even have a 'demo reel' like that beforehand.

@wings707 Randy says he'll come back if the other judges do, in case that sounds promising to you. It may be a bit misleading to say bringing back the old judges will make the reboot less about them because then people will be waiting for Randy's soundbites and Simon's harsh criticism instead of a new cast that aren't already linked to the show with certain expectations in place. Simon was pretty bland on AGT last year, anyways, quite watered down compared to years ago. I get why you want the old judges, since they're associated with Idol's peak, and a new table could definitely suck, but the term "nostalgic reboot" is a contradiction if the show is relaunched as a 'version 2.0' yet still has almost all components of the first one.

[Wings]

1 hour ago, Neet said:

@wings707 Randy says he'll come back if the other judges do, in case that sounds promising to you. It may be a bit misleading to say bringing back the old judges will make the reboot less about them because then people will be waiting for Randy's soundbites and Simon's harsh criticism instead of a new cast that aren't already linked to the show with certain expectations in place. Simon was pretty bland on AGT last year, anyways, quite watered down compared to years ago. I get why you want the old judges, since they're associated with Idol's peak, and a new table could definitely suck, but the term "nostalgic reboot" is a contradiction if the show is relaunched as a 'version 2.0' yet still has almost all components of the first one.

Not sure I understand the bold.  Yes a reboot would have the components of the original and I am saying I would like that.  

People certainly tuned in to see the personalities of the judges as well as the singers back then.  For me that was vastly different than listening to judges go on at length with technical critiques as did the last crew.  I liked them okay,  but it  just became background noise as I folded the laundry.  

[Gemma Violet]

17 hours ago, holly4755 said:

Why Gemma Violet, you could be Clay Aiken, who knew? 

Wow, great interview!  Thanks!

[TheGreenKnight]

I thought I'd read that celebrity judges (including Simon) are out because they want to save on costs. Apparently the judges will be unknowns, sort of similar to when Idol first started and the closest thing to a big celeb attached was Paula.

If true, I think I'll actually tune into the reboot for however long it lasts. An Idol without the parasite that is JLO will be refreshing.

[Silver Raven]

Entertainment Weekly wants Kanye West as a judge.  Oh, God, no.

[VCRTracking]

Kelly Clarkson announced on Facebook today she'll be a judge on The Voice in spring 2018, so that puts those rumors speculating about her joining the AI reboot to rest.

Edited May 12, 2017 by VCRTracking

[MarkHB]

I can see her liking the coaching aspects of The Voice better than the pure judging of Idol, TBH. It looked like she enjoyed herself on Duets. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I was a long time avid AI fan.  Watched and voted for years, but, it just went south when they brought in Jennifer Lopez.  That time was when the show just started the downward spiral, imo.  It only got worse.  IMO, she was a distraction and enough of a reason for viewers to lose interest.  Anyway, I walked away before their last season.  Too painful.   I really wish they would let the show rest in peace.  Bringing it back, just seems pathetic to me.  I fear that it will be resumed and then suffer another slow and painful demise.  Why do that?  I don't get it. 

This is from last year. Has it changed?

http://people.com/tv/jennifer-lopez-very-close-to-american-idol-return/

So glad that Kelly avoided it. 

[Silver Raven]

The worst was the Mariah Carey/Nikki Minaj shows.  They were virtually unwatchable.

[twilightzone]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I was a long time avid AI fan.  Watched and voted for years, but, it just went south when they brought in Jennifer Lopez.  That time was when the show just started the downward spiral, imo.  It only got worse.  IMO, she was a distraction and enough of a reason for viewers to lose interest.  Anyway, I walked away before their last season.  Too painful. 

Actually Season 10, when J-Lo came board, jump in terms of ratings compared to Season 9. 

Seasons 10 & 11 also produced 2 of the most successful winners. 

Her Shades of Blue show on NBC is a big hit, so she wouldn't even be available.

[Silver Raven]

6 minutes ago, twilightzone said:

Her Shades of Blue show on NBC is a big hit, so she wouldn't even be available.

She's exec producing and judging on that new dance show, too.

[TheGreenKnight]

2 hours ago, twilightzone said:

Actually Season 10, when J-Lo came board, jump in terms of ratings compared to Season 9. 

And huge drops every season she returned afterwards.

Thank God for Shades of Blue. Good riddance to her.

[twilightzone]

It's always easy just to blame the judges.  But a BIG problem was the same, tired audience who voted for the same type of contestants.

There were talented, diverse contestants the last few years - but those people were always voted off early - in place of the status quo.

No way is Trent Harmon the bookend to Kelly Clarkson.  And Nick Fradiani has to be one the most uninspired winners ever.  That's why he's struggling so bad now.

[SunnyBeBe]

I love Scotty. He's from my hometown. (Raleigh, near Garner).  Still, imo Jennifer was not an asset.  She's a fortunate artists. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Neet]

8 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

The worst was the Mariah Carey/Nikki Minaj shows.  They were virtually unwatchable.

They were both probably the worst and most annoying judges ever, if not tying Paula Abdul. Talent-wise, season 12 was horrendous, which coincided well with the awful judges.

6 hours ago, twilightzone said:

Actually Season 10, when J-Lo came board, jump in terms of ratings compared to Season 9. 

Steven Tyler likely helped garner more interest, as well. From what I remember, a lot of people hated season 9 at the time, so season 10 increasing in quality could have brought in and kept viewers even without a certain judge being responsible.

5 hours ago, TheGreenKnight said:

And huge drops every season she returned afterwards.

Thank God for Shades of Blue. Good riddance to her.

I hate JLo, too, but her being on the panel probably didn't affect ratings much compared to the Idol franchise growing continually staler and the contestants from the last 3 seasons being milquetoast and boring.

5 hours ago, twilightzone said:

It's always easy just to blame the judges.  But a BIG problem was the same, tired audience who voted for the same type of contestants.

There were talented, diverse contestants the last few years - but those people were always voted off early - in place of the status quo.

No way is Trent Harmon the bookend to Kelly Clarkson.  And Nick Fradiani has to be one the most uninspired winners ever.  That's why he's struggling so bad now.

Certainly a lot of the more recent judges were irritating, but it makes little sense to blame them for ratings and interest going down. Maybe blaming the focus on the judges is more accurate, since the contestants were shafted as a result. Wouldn't you think all of the obsessive voting for the same mold of a singer time and time again would result in these voters giving out some post-show support? Nick's career has been dismal because he lacks charisma and sounds like a bar singer, and Trent hasn't even put out an album yet. The same type of winner keeps getting carried to the finale by a fanbase who won't care afterwards. Especially nowadays with music in a streaming format, not having the Idol winner with a few singles to throw on Spotify/Apple Music the day after the finale is embarrassing. "Hang tight, guys, I might have news about a delayed album in 6 months". That's not how anybody's going to stick around as a fan.

[TheGreenKnight]

10 hours ago, twilightzone said:

It's always easy just to blame the judges.  But a BIG problem was the same, tired audience who voted for the same type of contestants.

The main reason I disliked JLO was because she put through the untalented in the first place and then championed them to the win over superior contestants. It's like she rubberstamped her own career model onto Idol (e.g., the look is all that matters, autotune will fix the rest of the package). For all the problems with Mariah/Nicki's feuding, they actually interrupted a streak of repetitive, untalented winners that was damaging the show, imo, with Candice. Something JLO failed to do the 5 years she was on the show.

[holly4755]

Don't you think the focus on the judges were part and parcel negotiated by the "star's" managers?  

what year did they put through all those guys that could not sing so they could get a female winner?  Well I am sure that they could sing at home, just not under the pressure and lights.  That was a horrid joke and really turned off a lot of people . All they had to do was stop allowing guitars. 

[twilightzone]

6 hours ago, TheGreenKnight said:

The main reason I disliked JLO was because she put through the untalented in the first place and then championed them to the win over superior contestants. It's like she rubberstamped her own career model onto Idol (e.g., the look is all that matters, autotune will fix the rest of the package).  For all the problems with Mariah/Nicki's feuding, they actually interrupted a streak of repetitive, untalented winners that was damaging the show, imo, with Candice. Something JLO failed to do the 5 years she was on the show.

Candice Glover is one of the least successful winners.  While Scotty McCreery and Phillip Phillips are 2 of the most successful.

Season 12 ratings plummeted and the show never recovered after that.

Nick Fradiani and Trent Harmon had more to do with Scott Borchetta's agenda.

Edited May 13, 2017 by twilightzone

[TheGreenKnight]

Candice is more successful than the three to come after her. Diminishing proceeds from 12-onwards in itself says the public and Jimmy Iovine were over the show by the time she came around. Also worth mentioning that her album came later than other winners, which unfortunately recurred with Nick and Trent (and La'Porsha).

Actually, the ratings for season 12 were consistent with the same decrease found between 11 and 10, although I'm sure they expected a boost from Nicki and Mariah being new which didn't happen. Season 13 is where the bottom really fell out of the show, the first time they went below 10 million since the first season (hitting 6 million at one point that year, a much larger drop than seasons 11 or 12 saw).

[twilightzone]

1 hour ago, TheGreenKnight said:

Candice is more successful than the three to come after her. Diminishing proceeds from 12-onwards in itself says the public and Jimmy Iovine were over the show by the time she came around. Also worth mentioning that her album came later than other winners, which unfortunately recurred with Nick and Trent (and La'Porsha).

Your point about the continued declining popularity of the show - would also impact the subsequent 3 winners accordingly.  So Candice being more successful than the other 3 is really irrelevant.  It's just like saying Caleb is more successful than Nick.  Bottom line, none of the last 4 winners have any commercial success.

Fact:  J-Lo was on the panel that produced 2 successful winners (as well as non winners like Lauren Alaina, Haley Reinhart, Colton Dixon).  That is more than Ellen, Nikki, Mariah, Keith, Harry had.

[TheGreenKnight]

5 hours ago, twilightzone said:

Fact:  J-Lo was on the panel that produced 2 successful winners (as well as non winners like Lauren Alaina, Haley Reinhart, Colton Dixon). 

So were Steven Tyler and Randy. Does that make them good judges? If anything, your point would put the credit at their feet considering JLO failed to find anyone successful her last three seasons without those two judges.

[twilightzone]

1 hour ago, TheGreenKnight said:

So were Steven Tyler and Randy. Does that make them good judges? If anything, your point would put the credit at their feet considering JLO failed to find anyone successful her last three seasons without those two judges.

The fact remains J-Lo still had more success than Ellen, Nikki, Mariah, Harry, Keith.

Edited May 13, 2017 by twilightzone

[Wings]

Viewers vote to determine the winner, judges don't.  Their comments may influence voting to some degree but they cannot take credit for any winner. 

[TheGreenKnight]

3 hours ago, twilightzone said:

The fact remains J-Lo still had more success than Ellen, Nikki, Mariah, Harry, Keith.

And the fact remains--steep drops in the ratings every season with her afterwards. She didn't stabilize the show.

[twilightzone]

39 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

And the fact remains--steep drops in the ratings every season with her afterwards. She didn't stabilize the show.

No one person would have been able to stabilize the show.  The judges have no control over production, Scott Borchetta, the network.

Edited May 14, 2017 by twilightzone

[TheGreenKnight]

*shrug* I don't know what to tell you except agree to disagree. I still consider her the single worst aspect of the later seasons and I think the show's much better off now it's rid of her.

[twilightzone]

10 hours ago, TheGreenKnight said:

*shrug* I don't know what to tell you except agree to disagree. I still consider her the single worst aspect of the later seasons and I think the show's much better off now it's rid of her.

The problems the show had in the last few years goes way deeper than just the judges - who have no control over the format, the producers, Scott Borchetta, the network.

You have given J-Lo way more power and influence than she really has.

Edited May 14, 2017 by twilightzone

[holly4755]

well it might be getting worse, they are in talks with Katy Perry.  Personally I thought Left Shark stole one of her appearances from her.  

[Ohwell]

I'd rather have Left Shark as a judge.

[Guest]

I heard that Katy Perry signed a deal with them.  This killed any interest I had in the reboot.

[TheGreenKnight]

I remember Katy guested back in season 9 and was mostly well-liked for her comments. I don't mind her. She actually criticized the contestants who can't sing, which you'd think would be the least you could expect from any judge on this show, but clearly that wasn't the case in its later seasons.

[Diana Berry]

So I read Chris Daughtrey is going o be a judge?  True or not?

[Ohwell]

I hope it's true that Chris is going to be a judge.   

[Qoass]

I never appreciated Ryan Seacrest so much as when I watched Carson Daly on The Voice.  

I just read that Katy Perry is the first judge to be signed.  I hate to admit how invested I am in this reboot but that pleases me greatly.

[Wings]

I hope the new judges are tough with their critique (not nasty), and brief.  Praise a job well done but don't go overboard.   When you get stars in the judge position, wanting face time comes into play, as we have seen.  

[MarkHB]

Katy Perry is official:

Chris Daughtry has been reported as being a judge, but hasn't been confirmed by ABC yet.  Taylor Hicks has been throwing shade, saying that if they're going to have a former contestant on the show, it should be a winner.

[Ohwell]

Taylor Hicks can go fuck himself.

[ketchuplover]

I nominate Brian Dunkleman for host :)