S05.E14: The Sin-Eater

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Watch it. If you're willing to roll with the stupid, it's actually pretty funny. 

Yeah, apart from the Susan idiocy, I actually liked it. It was completely dumb, but entertaining.

Edited February 23, 2017 by apinknightmare

[LeighAn]

6 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Watch it. If you're willing to roll with the stupid, it's actually pretty funny. 

I'm actually pretty good at watching dumb crap for laughs ha. So I'll probably watch.

Life means that I very rarely get to watch Arrow live but I find that usually after reading so much outrage and snark after a bad episode makes the episode less bad for me because I always expect worst ha.

[RobertDeSneero]

2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

I like that he's apparently forgotten that he killed a dude to keep his secret at the beginning of the season. Like, if protecting the secret warrants murder, why doesn't it warrant this?

Does he still believe that?  By your logic, does that mean that Oliver couldn't criticize Thea if she actually killed Susan?

[apinknightmare]

21 minutes ago, RobertDeSneero said:

Does he still believe that?  By your logic, does that mean that Oliver couldn't criticize Thea if she actually killed Susan?

Does he still believe what? He actually DID kill a guy in October to keep his secret. There's nothing to believe. 

It doesn't make sense for Oliver to call Thea to task for obliterating Susan's career to keep his secret since he's actually MURDERED to keep it. He acted as if his delicate sensibilities were offended because she went all Moira on Susan when he's done much worse to keep the same thing hidden. 

[bijoux]

I suppose Thea falls in the better-than-me group together with Dig and Felicity in Oliver's eyes. 

Yeah, it's stupid.

[Midnight Lullaby]

The shady reporter is horrible but she made me laugh when she told Oliver she thought he might be the GA because she was working on a different story. Yeah a different story about him, LOL. Also she labeled her files on Oliver "Oliver Queen info". It's like a cheating husband saving the other woman on his phone as "MY SECRET LOVER".

Oliver is such a hypocrite. "Who does that?" Yeah, I've been wondering what kind of person murders people because "no one can know my secret." Also Oliver had it handled? LMAO sure. Susan was about to expose Oliver and that would have likely lead to the whole team being arrested so Thea had all the reasons to undermine her. That in a show where for some reason sleeping with the man you are writing a story about isn't enough to get you to lose all your credibility and getting fired of course.

[Velocity23]

3 hours ago, benteen said:

If Thea warned Susan to back off of Oliver, all it would have done was further convince Susan that Oliver was indeed the Green Arrow. 

 

I would argue Thea already warned her.

[DigitalCount]

Yeah, this one...didn't work. Unless we're supposed to see Oliver as wrong. SUSAN FLAT-OUT ADMITTED SHE WAS GOING TO RUN THE STORY. Yikes. I know, it's already been said.

Also, even though I'm the only one still in this corner...nothing Mama Prometheus said was inconsistent with a mother trying to protect her daughter rather than her son, right? I mean, if she really wanted to protect him/her, she wouldn't correct Oliver's potentially mistaken assumption that Prometheus is a man, right? Right? #SusanIsPrometheus

Thea is still a boss. Why is this show not called Red Arrow? "After spending five years as an addict, I learned my father was a sociopathic murderer who wanted nothing but power, and he used me to fulfill his own goals. To get away from him, I had to become someone else. I had to become something else. I had to become...Red Arrow."

Loved the gifs. I'm glad the writers had the sense not to make it ultimately Felicity's plan to completely ruin Susan. Her character can't really handle a hit like that from the audience, because people like the r/arrow crew would question her motives and start screeching like howler monkeys.

[wonderwall]

3 minutes ago, DigitalCount said:

Loved the gifs. I'm glad the writers had the sense not to make it ultimately Felicity's plan to completely ruin Susan. Her character can't really handle a hit like that from the audience, because people like the r/arrow crew would question her motives and start screeching like howler monkeys.

You best believe her actions would've been reduced to one of a scorned woman's or something like that *rolls eyes*

[thuganomics85]

Fun seeing Warner, China White, and Carrie/Cupid again, even if felt like the last two didn't really feel needed at times.  It really seemed like only Warner and her history with Quentin was actually significant to the main plot, while Cupid was just there to quip and China to be a badass.  Can't complain too much about that though.  But I hope wee seem again (I'm assuming Pike just winged China and didn't kill her.)

Oh, boy.  At least I was entertained this go around, but there was a lot of stupid going on here.  And it was pretty much all Oliver.  Sure, in real life, what Thea and Felicity did would be questionable at best and disturbing at worst, but considering all the skeletons this gang already has in their closet, setting up Susan for plagiarism is nothing.  She clearly was prepared to expose Oliver to the world, which would have not only brought danger and turmoil to him, but likely to everyone involved.  And even after she freaking point-blank asked him if he was the Green Arrow, he was still all "Naw, sis!  I got this!  It's all good!!" about it.  So, I really can't blame Thea for doing this, because she knows that her brother is a fucking moron and was not going to get the job done.  And Susan already showed herself to be pretty shady, so she isn't a complete innocent here.  If Susan had been a journalist more along the lines of Iris or even Kara, then maybe I would feel bad.  But here?  Not really.

Another issue is that, with the way journalism has become these days, I can easily see Susan bouncing back even after a plagiarism scandal.  She's got the looks (helps being Carly Pope!) that will likely have at least one newscaster out there want her for television, even if it isn't the same news station.  And, if anything, she probably would gain support if she flat-out said "Mayor Queen is the Green Arrow, and totally set me up!", because for every person that would shake their head, there would be one conspiracy nut that would buy her story.  I'm not saying it would be great, mind you, but she isn't doomed.  Of course, I'm still wondering if she'll end up being a villain somehow.

But, really, I think the biggest issue is that Oliver is acting like this was a long term relationship, and they've been dating.... how long, exactly? It's not like Thea destroyed his childhood sweetheart or a long-term girlfriend for years.  Certainly not enough for him to be all "I worry about you, Thea!  If you aren't careful, you might turn into...... MOM!!!!!!" about it.

 Moving on, nothing much else to see.  Both Diggle and Felicity were in the background, Rene and Curtis continue to be ineffective, everyone is practically worshiping Dinah, and I still just miss Rory.

Fun seeing Pike again.  Reminds me of the first season with him, Detective Quentin, and Roger Cross as his partner.  The good old days!

Meanwhile in Flashback Land, Oliver turns himself in to Gregor to save Anatoly, but it all goes to hell and it ends with Gregor pointing a gun at Anatoly.  Obvious, he won't die, so either Oliver gets to him in time, or maybe Talia makes her return.  Fingers crossed!

Oliver hunts down Prometheus' mom, and doesn't get anything from her himself, but does get Felicity a bunch of info from for her to cypher through.  I'm sure she'll find something some day, but the question is will be before or after Oliver does something else dumb.

Still think Chase is Vigilante.

Episode ends with Oliver's cover-up being leaked and concerns over him getting impeached.  Interesting?

[TwistedandBored]

7 hours ago, statsgirl said:

It's still all about what Felicity can do for other people, like give Tinah a mask or hack Susan for Thea, rather than what someone can do for her.

Word. Like I don't think anyone has asked about Felicity's well being. Just a quick question from Diggle or Curtis to her about how show is holding up would have been nice to see. I hear about how Oliver is dealing with Billy's death but I got nothing on Felicity so far. 

[Pete Martell]

Rather than wondering how this would affect Susan's incredible career or her glorious love story with Oliver, I ended up wondering what would happen if Thea ever met up with Rory Gilmore...

Edited February 23, 2017 by Pete Martell

[Midnight Lullaby]

I need the writers to come to twitter and tell me if I'm supposed to feel bad for the reporter. The premise of the show is that TA are heroes that have to keep their identities a secret to save the city and that is the reason for Oliver killing and Roy taking the blame and giving up his life to protect the secret. If SW's career is more important than keeping the secret than I guess I should root for Oliver and the team to end up in jail? Except if they wanted to create the dilemma they should have done it with a reporter that was a decent person and didn't sleep with a man to find dirt on him. In real life TA should go to jail and SW be out of a job but in the show I'm supposed to understand the heroes have to protect their secret to save the city.

[Chaser]

I think that's the thing that is bugging me the most. I don't know what the show is trying to say. I'm confused.

[Morrigan2575]

7 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

It's funny.  The idea of Felicity digging up dirt and blackmailing Susan into staying quiet (which is what I expected) might have met more with Oliver's approval than what Thea did.  Which makes me laugh about Felicity's "dark arc" again.  

I was thinking about this last night after the discussion on poor Susan.

Option 1: Felicity/Thea erase all the data Susan has on OQ/GA. Result is negligible, Susan already found the information once she can do so again and much quicker since she already knows where to look.

Option 2: Felicity/Thea blackmail Susan in to staying quiet. With what? Oliver/Susan weren't exactly keeping their relationship hidden. Unless they made up stuff or found other information there's not much threat. In any case I don't think it would have worked since Oliver being GA and/or Bratva and/or not on the island (massive public 5 year lie) is more than enough to overcome almost any blackmail. She had book deals, talk shows, etc etc

Option 2b: Blackmail+ Erasing data. This would work in the short term, but eventually Susan would rebuild her story and go public. Plus she'd be able to rope Thea into it with the blackmail, which is actually a crime.

Option 3: Bring the information to Oliver let him deal with it. Result Susan outs Oliver as GA and they all go to jail or get killed since everyone in SC knows GA has a team.

Option 4: Do nothing and hope for the best. Well they didn't know at the time but, we obviously know what Susan would do. She admitted as much to Oliver after she confronted him.

Option 5: Destroy Susan's credibility. Susan can't go public with what she knows because know one believes her. Protects everyone's secret life and keeps GA and Mayor Queen in businesses protecting the city.

Option 6: Kill her. As others have pointed out Oliver did just that but, of course it's OK for Oliver to kill nameless thugs to protect his secret (hi 501/502) but, obviously Thea and Felicity would have been wrong, bad, evil to do that to a named character. Oh, this show ?

It may have been harsh but, seems to me like the best option to them.  

Edited February 23, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Trisha]

7 hours ago, Chaser said:

The last gif is lol. It's like she just notices how close he is and can't figure out if she is turned on or not.

Honestly by the time the Oliver/Felicity scene came around (I'm no longer calling them Olicity because the show is clearly over it) I couldn't even appreciate it. Oliver was so huffy and self-righteous with her that I wanted her to slap him instead of flirt with him. And after this episode, it's going to take a lot of character rehabilitation for me to want them reunited. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I didn't like the Olicity scene this time. It felt too much like he was trying to bully her going into her personal space like that.

[benteen]

The only reason I can see Susan not going public with the information about Oliver now is that she's worried what else might happen to her.  In less than 24 hours, in her mind, Oliver was able to hack her computer and manufacture evidence that she had plagiarized her work.  That would make a person gun shy.

[Midnight Lullaby]

3 minutes ago, benteen said:

The only reason I can see Susan not going public with the information about Oliver now is that she's worried what else might happen to her.  In less than 24 hours, in her mind, Oliver was able to hack her computer and manufacture evidence that she had plagiarized her work.  That would make a person gun shy.

But she knows Oliver is a Bratva captain. If that didn't scare her I doubt Thea and Felicity did.

[benteen]

14 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

But she knows Oliver is a Bratva captain. If that didn't scare her I doubt Thea and Felicity did.

Good point, I didn't think of this.  She might as well burn him on the way down though I don't feel any sympathy for Susan.

Quote

I like that he's apparently forgotten that he killed a dude to keep his secret at the beginning of the season. Like, if protecting the secret warrants murder, why doesn't it warrant this?

This goes back to the greatest weakness of this show.  The writers.  They have proven time and time again that the scripts are more important to them than the characters.  They write their characters to fit their scripts instead of writing their scripts to fit their characters.  One week, Roy hates Malcolm Merlyn and the next week he is the president of the Malcolm Merlyn fan club.

[Primetimer]

Unfortunately, everyone just wants to talk about the season arc, not the episode's alleged plot.

View the full article

[bijoux]

I'm trying to figure out the reasoning for Oliver's concern for Thea. Go ahead and laugh. But I'm thinking it's not necessarily this Moira-like action that's the cause for it, but knowing how Moira's actions in protecting her family snowballed to her being an accomplice in Malcolm's plan to level a metropolitan area. So, it's not so much about this as it is about what it could lead to.

[Chaser]

Oliver being concerned about Theas tactics doesn't bother me. I think it's probably warranted and in character. However Oliver's previous super chill policy in regards to his GF and his reaction this episode to her investigation tells me Thea read the situation right and Oliver would have made everything worse if he handled it on his own. 

[way2interested]

2 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I'm trying to figure out the reasoning for Oliver's concern for Thea. Go ahead and laugh. But I'm thinking it's not necessarily this Moira-like action that's the cause for it, but knowing how Moira's actions in protecting her family snowballed to her being an accomplice in Malcolm's plan to level a metropolitan area. So, it's not so much about this as it is about what it could lead to.

No, I definitely think that that's it. Besides Oliver's laughable comments about how he has Susan handled and how she wouldn't do anything to him (or his overall sympathy for her that sure is fine for him but not the audience) , I pretty much saw his entire getting angry part towards Thea (and even that first part with Felicity) as more of getting angry with how far it went. Like, she didn't just delete her work or report her unethical journalistic practices or tell Oliver or tell anyone about, Thea went out and fabricated stuff to go beyond getting rid of Susan and to actually destroy her life. It's kind of far out there (the matter of if Susan deserved it or not is a completely different topic), but I'm just going on a way that I think rationalizes Oliver's anger. Tbh, before I watched it, I just saw a bunch of people talking about how Thea got Susan fired and that Oliver got mad about it, and I got irritated to. However, seeing the episode and finding out that Thea actually faked it so that Susan was fired for things she didn't do kind of tweaked how I saw it a bit. Still happy that something bad happened to Susan, but it made me see Oliver's anger at more that Thea went to a somewhat extensive path to ruin someone deemed "a threat" and that he didn't want Thea to necessarily be that way.

Ultimately I also saw it as part set-up for his reaction with Felicity as well, since this reaction/story set-up has now been somewhat resolved for Diggle and Thea but not Felicity yet.

[Hiveminder]

14 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I'm trying to figure out the reasoning for Oliver's concern for Thea. Go ahead and laugh. But I'm thinking it's not necessarily this Moira-like action that's the cause for it, but knowing how Moira's actions in protecting her family snowballed to her being an accomplice in Malcolm's plan to level a metropolitan area. So, it's not so much about this as it is about what it could lead to.

If that's what he's concerned about, he's right to be. 

Moira was great. Her dedication to her children was admirable, but she made bad decisions. She did bad things, and she used her children to justify her actions. 

It makes for better TV, but Oliver should definitely be concerned about Thea following to closely in Moira's footsteps. 

[bijoux]

I remembered another thing that made me laugh. Thea using Oliver's assistant to keep track of him. And there's Susan bribing the bodyguards. Like, poor Promethues, who's left for him, the intern who does the copying?

[tv echo]

Susan Williams is like this season's Samantha Clayton. We're supposed to believe, I think, that she's a good, caring person who's good at her job (journalist/mother), but instead she's coming across to the audience as someone deceitful and manipulative.

Edited February 23, 2017 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Susan Williams is like this season's Samantha Clayton. We're supposed to believe, I think, that she's a good, caring person who's good at her job (journalist/mother), but instead she's coming across to the audience as someone deceitful and manipulative.

It blows my mind that this keeps happening to so many characters on this show over the years. At some point a writers room has to figure out HOW to make characters come across the way they mean them to be. Other shows get over this all the freaking time -- some character is not getting across for whatever reason, they either adjust the character or write them off. AND YET. After the Laurels and the Malcolms, there come the Wild Dongs and the Susans of Arrow. Every season, with the cognitive dissonance. It's cray.

Edited February 23, 2017 by dtissagirl

[apinknightmare]

It's funny because all they needed to do was switch up Susan's first confrontation with Oliver - and have her list all of the info that she had on him then, have her tell him that she really cares about him and didn't like that she was lying to him, and have her admit to having the info she had on him as wanting to figure out what her boyfriend was up to behind her back. 

The way everything unfolded indicated that she WAS just with him for a story, which...isn't what they intended, I'm sure. 

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

It's funny because all they needed to do was switch up Susan's first confrontation with Oliver - and have her list all of the info that she had on him then, have her tell him that she really cares about him and didn't like that she was lying to him, and have her admit to having the info she had on him as wanting to figure out what her boyfriend was up to behind her back. 

The way everything unfolded indicated that she WAS just with him for a story, which...isn't what they intended, I'm sure. 

Yep. And also not had her say she can't go public with what she knows now. 

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Yep. And also not had her say she can't go public with what she knows now. 

Right- I was just talking about what they could've done to show that she actually did care about Oliver outside of the story. I don't think leaving out the publishing comment indicates her feelings for him either way. It seems like based on EP interviews she is supposed to have feelings for him - but that wasn't shown. At all. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

My God. I think Oliver is the new king of BDA.  Just replace the Alien for ASS. Clark and even Justin Hartley's Ollie are much smarter and honorable in comparison.

I see what the writers hacks were trying to do with that "long" kiss Oliver gave Susan-trying to "show" that they've been together for a long time, and blah, blah, blah.???????????

The only two positives were the scenes between Thea and Felicity, which includes Felicity mocking Susan's originality regarding her password, and how Thea "handled" Susan), and despite his dimassery, the return of Oliver's growly raspy voice.

And okay, I found the scene with Felicity and Oliver cute. That despite his hypocritical attitude, the chemistry between these two actors still fairly crackle and spark. Reminds me of two other actors, whose characters' names start with C on another show.??

What?

[Morrigan2575]

6 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

My God. I think Oliver is the new king of BDA.  Just replace the Alien for ASS. Clark and even Justin Hartley's Ollie are much smarter and honorable in comparison.

Bahahhh BDA haven't heard that term in awhile. Love it.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Bahahhh BDA haven't heard that term in awhile. Love it.

Well come on over to the Smallville forum- I use it all the time!?? And so does @BkWurm1!! It's such apt description for Clark during the mid seasons!

[benteen]

1 hour ago, dtissagirl said:

It blows my mind that this keeps happening to so many characters on this show over the years. At some point a writers room has to figure out HOW to make characters come across the way they mean them to be. Other shows get over this all the freaking time -- some character is not getting across for whatever reason, they either adjust the character or write them off. AND YET. After the Laurels and the Malcolms, there come the Wild Dongs and the Susans of Arrow. Every season, with the cognitive dissonance. It's cray.

This reminds me of the scene where Laurel was pulled over in Season 2 and the cop revealed it was because he thought she was drunk.  My reaction was huh?  I think in the scene before they showed her drinking but had done nothing at that point to show that she was drunk or show that she was an alcoholic.  Maybe it was KC's acting but whoever wrote, edited and directed those scenes also did a poor job trying to convey that to the audience.

Forgot to mention...only one scene between Diggle and Dinah but I got concerned when he rubbed her arm encouragingly. 

[LeighAn]

The episode wasnt as terrible as I assumed it woukd be but it was underwhelming. 

I didnt mind the bad girl team up but I would have preferred it play a bigger role in the episode and less Susan Williams nobody cares drama. Liza Warner got a weighty enough part but I felt Cupid and China White were just there. I still think our Dark BOP blackmailed by Felicity to catch Prometheus theory was way better and woukdnt have given the ladies their due.

I was so so happy to Thea back - I didnt watch last ep- I loved her scene with Quentin, really all her scenes but Quentin especially. To be honest I agree with those that say that the show to me did a good enough a job at demonstrating that Oliver was more concerned with how far Thea went then the fact that she did go after Susan.

I also really didnt get the impression that Oliver was so blinded by love or feelings or sex with Susan and was staunchly defending her for those reasons. He knew he was in trouble when she asked him and was visibly concerned but he wanted to handle it HIS way presumably because he thought he had enough experience with covering up his identity and throwing people off that he could have found a more workable outcome and didnt like that Thea handled it for him in a way he didnt aporove. Im sure he was theorising that given the time he could have done the whole Oliver and the Green Arrow in the same place routine like hes done in the past.

Problem is Susan is not as easily fooled and smart enough to probably see threw Olivers manuevers. Olivers anger about Susan is reasonable but he was being super unreasonable about the circumstances he was in. And as others pointed out his past actions where he literally killed people to protect his identity have created a climate in Team Arrow that the secret must be protected at all costs even if it means extreme measures. Until Oliver can make peace with the fact that he created this in his Team then he really has no place to take the moral high ground when they follow his lead.

Which brings me to my next point. What Thea did probably crossed a line, I can accept that the show wants me to see the storyline like that even though I see the merits in what she did. What I loathed however is that in the very next scene Quentin absolves Oliver of all resposibility in killing Billy and doesnt question the fact that Oliver choosing to kill rather then apprehend his villians is also wrong and is what caused him to kill an innocent man in the crossfire. I want to see Oliver been called for task for that so just like Thea even though I can see that Oliver isnt entirely at fault that the show is acknowledging that Olivers actions were still wrong and worthy of repute.

I think the show in trying to show Oliver as not just the physical leader of the show but now the moral leader as well is in danger of making him a flawed character whos flaws go unacknowledged in the writing because hes too busy being judgemental of others flaws to show how hes a better person then those characters hes judging. And from my experience in tv watching those characters usually end up being despised- just ask Dan Humphrey or Dawson Leery, Barry Allen ...

As for those bitter about the Olicity scene- I still call them Olicity- bah humbugs I say. The scene was freaking cute and I think it was absolutely designed to be freaking cute and a lighter moment in the ep. I didnt see them highlighting Oliver as being overly self righteous or antagonistic to Felicity. I saw it as no different then him getting up in her grill in 1x15 when she did her computer thing with his acess codes. 

It was grumpy Oliver wanted to know what she did to Susans laptop RIGHT NOW and cute Felicity trying to charm and flirt him down from his anger. Ill take it show. Especially since Felicity did nothing else of consequence this episode. Waiting patiently for the darkFelicity arch to go up a notch. More mafia wife vibes scenes less exposition scenes writers!

Dinah continues to be nothing special in the show and I continue to believe that we put more thought into her and give her more credit then the writers care to give to her.

[way2interested]

2 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I also really didnt get the impression that Oliver was so blinded by love or feelings or sex with Susan and was staunchly defending her for those reasons. He knew he was in trouble when she asked him and was visibly concerned but he wanted to handle it HIS way presumably because he thought he had enough experience with covering up his identity and throwing people off that he could have found a more workable outcome and didnt like that Thea handled it for him in a way he didnt aporove. Im sure he was theorising that given the time he could have done the whole Oliver and the Green Arrow in the same place routine like hes done in the past.

Problem is Susan is not as easily fooled and smart enough to probably see threw Olivers manuevers. Olivers anger about Susan is reasonable but he was being super unreasonable about the circumstances he was in. And as others pointed out his past actions where he literally killed people to protect his identity have created a climate in Team Arrow that the secret must be protected at all costs even if it means extreme measures. Until Oliver can make peace with the fact that he created this in his Team then he really has no place to take the moral high ground when they follow his lead.

Completely agree. I also think a problem was that a linchpin of this is him believing that Susan was a relative non-threat, which we know, and even she admits, she's not. I rewatched pretending that his gf was Bethany Snow and it fixed pretty much everything. I didn't even get too mad at Thea, and I was just able to focus on Oliver's anger/concern over Thea. 

[johntfs]

16 hours ago, Tazmania said:

In what parallel earth does a mayor welcomes every officer that joins the police force? I mean Mayor Queen welcoming officer Drake was all kinds of weird. No wonder he doesn't get anything done and Thea ends up being de facto mayor coz real mayor is busy welcoming every new employee into the workforce.  My god, who is writing for Arrow now? Middle school drop outs? 

To be fair, he was welcoming her to his super-special anti-crime unit under his personal oversight (which is itself really odd and smacks of the Mayor having his own Secret Police).

[statsgirl]

7 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I didn't like the Olicity scene this time. It felt too much like he was trying to bully her going into her personal space like that.

If you look back over the first three season, he does that a lot.  People overlook it because of the chemistry but Oliver really doesn't give Felicity the respect that he gives Diggle.

6 hours ago, bijoux said:

I'm trying to figure out the reasoning for Oliver's concern for Thea. Go ahead and laugh. But I'm thinking it's not necessarily this Moira-like action that's the cause for it, but knowing how Moira's actions in protecting her family snowballed to her being an accomplice in Malcolm's plan to level a metropolitan area. So, it's not so much about this as it is about what it could lead to.

Moira did what she did because she thought she had no other choice.  Thea did what she did because she thought she had no other choice. His "I took care of it" which completely didn't just proves he doesn't listen to Thea at all about Susan.

I would feel my sympathetic to Oliver's concern over Thea if he had repeatedly shut her out when she tried to warn  him about Susan.

4 hours ago, tv echo said:

Susan Williams is like this season's Samantha Clayton. We're supposed to believe, I think, that she's a good, caring person who's good at her job (journalist/mother), but instead she's coming across to the audience as someone deceitful and manipulative.

They tell, and think that's enough.  Apparently they didn't learn anything from the mess last year.

[yellowfred]

13 minutes ago, johntfs said:

To be fair, he was welcoming her to his super-special anti-crime unit under his personal oversight (which is itself really odd and smacks of the Mayor having his own Secret Police).

Yeah, I think the whole thing only gets sketchier when you have the mayor having secret meetings with the chief of police, basically telling him to drop his investigation, because it interferes with a cover-up he's got going with the DA's office.   I mean, I get that he has his reasons, but Oliver is running a remarkably corrupt administration.

Also, since Dinah is now wearing a mask that looks exactly like Sara's old one and using a bo staff like Sara did/does, is anyone going to tell her that the whole legacy she's carrying on didn't actually start with Laurel?  

[Hiveminder]

8 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

If you look back over the first three season, he does that a lot.  People overlook it because of the chemistry but Oliver really doesn't give Felicity the respect that he gives Diggle.

Moira did what she did because she thought she had no other choice.  Thea did what she did because she thought she had no other choice. His "I took care of it" which completely didn't just proves he doesn't listen to Thea at all about Susan.

I would feel my sympathetic to Oliver's concern over Thea if he had repeatedly shut her out when she tried to warn  him about Susan.

They tell, and think that's enough.  Apparently they didn't learn anything from the mess last year.

Did Thea, and Moira too, really think she had no other choice, or did she not really bother looking for one? Don't get me wrong, Oliver should have listened to what everyone was telling him about Susan, but Oliver screwing up doesn't give anyone else an excuse for their own actions. 

[bethy]

It's like they're deliberately trying to make Oliver an unlikeable character. I hope that others are right and that this isn't Oliver, but Human Target. They just need to reveal that soon, because they are seriously straining my ability to like the character who is the hero of this show. And, honestly, if I don't like the main character, I don't watch the show. I don't think I'm the only one. Maybe another reason for the drop in ratings is they've made the Green Arrow a stupid moron. 

[TwistedandBored]

I think it is bad when we are 14 episodes into a season and we still don't know what the writers are trying to do with Susan's character. She serves no purpose other than to make Oliver seem like an even bigger idiot than he normally is. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

12 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

If you look back over the first three season, he does that a lot.  People overlook it because of the chemistry but Oliver really doesn't give Felicity the respect that he gives Diggle.

 

I remember the similar scene in season 1 but for the rest I haven't noticed. I didn't mind it that much in season 1 because that Oliver was an ass at the time and Felicity just joined the team while now things should be different. It was also different because in that scene after he tries to intimidate her she gets up and he takes a step back while here he keeps staying in her face doing his deep voice thing. To be clear I didn't see her being intimidated at all, but his behavior made me uncomfortable.

[Midnight Lullaby]

4 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

Did Thea, and Moira too, really think she had no other choice, or did she not really bother looking for one? Don't get me wrong, Oliver should have listened to what everyone was telling him about Susan, but Oliver screwing up doesn't give anyone else an excuse for their own actions. 

With Moira I guess it depends on the situation because she definitely could have made another choice about Oliver's baby mama while I think about the undertaking or Malcolm being Thea's dad she felt backed into a corner.

About Thea I don't know..because I would have tried to find a way to make her go away more permanently (like finding blackmail material) but I guess it isn't what you meant, LOL. Here the problem is it isn't just about Oliver's secret identity..her investigation potentially put the whole team in jeopardy so I don't see another option to protect them all. Other than killing her of course. At least Thea bought them time and I think they should work on finding a more permanent solution and also cover their tracks with her PI.

[Mellowyellow]

I found him less angry in this Olicity scene than the s1 one. I read it like a "Did you do this naughty thing?" and she was all pouty and cute and clearly wasn't bothered by him. I thought she was adorable especially with her hands fluttering everywhere.

It's a step up from the usual robotic interactions.

[Hiveminder]

5 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

With Moira I guess it depends on the situation because she definitely could have made another choice about Oliver's baby mama while I think about the undertaking or Malcolm being Thea's dad she felt backed into a corner.

About Thea I don't know..because I would have tried to find a way to make her go away more permanently (like finding blackmail material) but I guess it isn't what you meant, LOL. Here the problem is it isn't just about Oliver's secret identity..her investigation potentially put the whole team in jeopardy so I don't see another option to protect them all. Other than killing her of course. At least Thea bought them time and I think they should work on finding a more permanent solution and also cover their tracks with her PI.

Actually, blackmail is kind of what I meant. She created a false history of plagiarism, she could have framed Susan for other things as well and then told Susan that she would 'expose' her if she didn't drop the investigation into Oliver. Does that have risks? Yes, but before Susan was a shady reporter chasing a story who possibly could have been managed in some way. Now she's unemployed, angry, and probably embarrassed. That's not a good combination. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 minute ago, Hiveminder said:

Actually, blackmail is kind of what I meant. She created a false history of plagiarism, she could have framed Susan for other things as well and then told Susan that she would 'expose' her if she didn't drop the investigation into Oliver. Does that have risks? Yes, but before Susan was a shady reporter chasing a story who possibly could have been managed in some way. Now she's unemployed, angry, and probably embarrassed. That's not a good combination. 

No, no, I meant I would have done both. Because imagine if blackmail doesn't work and she decides to run her story anyway..discrediting her is the only way to kill her story. This way no one wants to publish it because she has no credibility..it's the safest course of action..not considering that sleeping with Oliver should be enough to discredit her but the show likes alternative facts.

[johntfs]

39 minutes ago, yellowfred said:

Yeah, I think the whole thing only gets sketchier when you have the mayor having secret meetings with the chief of police, basically telling him to drop his investigation, because it interferes with a cover-up he's got going with the DA's office.   I mean, I get that he has his reasons, but Oliver is running a remarkably corrupt administration.

Also, since Dinah is now wearing a mask that looks exactly like Sara's old one and using a bo staff like Sara did/does, is anyone going to tell her that the whole legacy she's carrying on didn't actually start with Laurel?  

It feels like they kind of want to forget that Sara ever existed outside of Legends.

For my part I'm kind of wondering if Oliver's "become someone else, become something else" will end with him eating a bunch of spider-beasts, turning into a giant snake demon and trying to eat a high school.

[Hiveminder]

3 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

No, no, I meant I would have done both. Because imagine if blackmail doesn't work and she decides to run her story anyway..discrediting her is the only way to kill her story. This way no one wants to publish it because she has no credibility..it's the safest course of action..not considering that sleeping with Oliver should be enough to discredit her but the show likes alternative facts.

So are you saying Thea should have found something to blackmail Susan with, but then still gotten her fired for plagiarism in case the blackmail didn't work? That seems cold.