S12.E11: Regarding Dean

[Writing Wrongs]

Dean likes Dory. LOL

[bethy]

Quote

Dean likes Dory. LOL

That was hilarious to me, and his, "I'm not going to apologize for loving that fish not even to you." I loved the implicaiton that normally he would deny any knowledge/affection for a kid's movie to Sam, but that Dory was so awesome, he couldn't. It was incredibly Dean to me. 

[SueB]

There were a TON of "little moments" that add so much to this show.  In addition to "Dory", we had:
- "Rowena." "Samuel" -- I freakin' love that she calls him Samuel.  It's just so... her.
- "Live Skinemax?"  -- 1) That was a Jensen ad-lib, I'd put money on it, 2) Tapping into the weird ship that is Sam/Rowena -- too funny, 3) Live or not, apparently - Dean-unplugged doesn't mind porn with others
- "Do we have to change him back?" -- Bless you Rowena, always the opportunist.
- I loved how the waitress slowly started getting that Dean really didn't remember, then apologized for taking advantage of Dean, and then Dean assures her it was no problem at all.  And nice way to tidy up that random sex moment as a positive thing under the circumstances.
- "Saaaam" -- Dean forgets his own name but when Sam cries out in danger (while listening over the phone), Dean's DNA kicks in and he calls out for Sam.  I also think he knew Sam was "good" after that momentary confusion because he instinctively trusts Sam.
- Dean NEEDED to know if he did well riding the mechanical bull -- because it matters to that little cowboy (even with his full memories)
- Dean still has a type - dark hair FTW with Dean
- Dean Winchester, kind to a bunny on instinct.
- Scooby Doo.
- Dean stunned look at Rowena casually mentioning "God and his sister."
- BOTH Sam and Dean presuming Dean just had another bender and Dean automatically labels the night "epic"
- Shocked girl protesting Dean hitting the newspaper stands.  So say we all.  She, of course, was upset at nearly being killed. I, OTOH, want them go check out the bumper.
- Dean's squick reflex is apparently naturally VERY high. 
- Dean's "it sounds like we are heroes"

Bottom line: the DIALOG and little jokes were just outstanding.  I'm practically quoting the entire episode so I'll stop now.

Edited February 10, 2017 by SueB

[Jediknight]

10 hours ago, SueB said:

- I LOVED Rowena in this episode.  I completely bought her re-thinking her existence. Amara scared the poop out of her last year and her realizing that absolute power doesn't really make you happy makes sense.  I loved her delight in Dean, her COMPETENCY, the way she dealt with the insults (I think previously she might have lost her head a bit at that moment) and the sense that she may not seek redemption but her helping the boys was a positive experience for her.  I hope she stays on this trajectory.  She's always been delightfully snarky but to remain bitter and scheming would get old IMO.  Rowena going in a new direction makes sense and keeps her character interesting.

Also there was everything with Lucifer.  She got him out of the cage and he snapped her neck, and he also chained her up, meanwhile with the Winchesters she knows that if they promise not to kill her or Crowley for 24 hours after they help, they won't kill her or Crowley.  She has clashed with the Winchesters, but there's a bit of honor from Sam and Dean.

I'm hoping she ultimately forms the Mega Coven, and it's used to protect and help people.

40 minutes ago, Bessie said:

But, that was a moment where characterization was sacrificed for the joke. There is no way that Sam would allow Rowena to reverse the spell without him being present. The writer wants me to believe that he doesn't trust her with the book, but he trusts her with his brother?  Sorry, no can do. 

The reversal spell probably packed a powerful punch, so anybody who wasn't a witch would get affected by it.  So he wasn't in the room because there would have been a chance of him getting whammied.

[ZennyKenny]

51 minutes ago, SueB said:

There were a TON of "little moments" that add so much to this show. 

That list is so perfect. It is the little things that make a great episode. You caught all those things that made me smile, too, like the bunny and Rowena's "Samuel". I just want to add:

- That Dean in the bathroom mirror scene. Just... damn. Dude can tug a heart string.

[Wayward Son]

I actually ended up liking that episode a lot better than I expected. Last week’s episode was still more to my taste, but overall they managed to make the episode a worthwhile watch.

In my opinion there was a sequence of three scenes in the middle of the episode that acted as its highlight. The first of these is the scene between the brothers in the motel bathroom. Sam and Dean’s emotions were palatable and Jared and Jensen clearly gave it everything they had. During this scene you could really tell that Sam was on the edge of breaking down, while forcing himself to remain strong for the vulnerable brother who needed him. While you could sense Dean’s fear, his heartbreak, and even his sense of indignation that after all they’d been through this was the thing that might take him down. The chemistry between Jared and Jensen was at its finest and it was a rather strong reminder of why so many of us still follow this show in season twelve.

The second scene I adored was the follow up scene with Rowena in the bedroom. This was for me Jared’s finest moment in the episode. Again, he managed to convey the anxiety and exhaustion felt by Sam. I think his statement “I have seen my brother die, but watching him become… not him, this might actually be worse” says it all. Sam has seen Dean die on several occasions over the years. There were the numerous deaths during Mystery Spot, his death by hellhounds in No Rest for the Wicked and of course his death at the hands of Metatron in Do You Believe in Miracles? However, the one thing Sam always had was the knowledge that his brother loved him and knew he was loved in turn. In this episode, he didn’t even have that comfort. Not only was Sam worried about having to watch his brother die, but he also had to prepare himself for the possibility that Dean would leave him without knowing who he was, who Sam was, and that he was loved. I can only imagine that’s a devastating possibility to face and Jared really conveyed that sense of solace.

The third scene then was Dean’s attempt to maintain his memory of himself, of his family and of Castiel. I have to admit that as a fan of Castiel and his friendship with Dean I was delighted to see Meredith Glynn chose to mention him rather than ignore his existence. However, to get back on track, Jensen clearly gave it his all in this scene. Dean’s struggle was not only shown in his facial expression, but even in the way that he spoke; the hesitance, the pauses between words, his growing frustration as he stubbornly attempted to recall his name before ultimately acknowledging with devastation “I don’t know”. The performance was poignant and Jensen really showed us all why so many consider him the strongest actor on the show.

I addition to these scenes, I also enjoyed the episodes characterisation of Rowena and its promises of growth in the character. I must admit I’ve never been a massive fan of the witch, but I actually enjoyed her performance this week. Ruth managed to maintain enough of Rowena’s wit and general demeanour to ensure she remained true to who we have seen so far, while offering a believable explanation for a sudden change of heart. I am actually excited to find out whether she can stick to this newfound revelation, or will she ultimately fade back into her old ways.

On the other hand, there were several things about the episode I was not that happy about. The first of these was the scene between the bartender and the brothers. I know that we weren’t meant to see Dean’s interaction with the waitress as the equivalent of being roofed up, especially since it took place before the spell, but nonetheless the way they handled it made me very uncomfortable. After all, the brothers did not have the comfort of knowing that, and the way Dean smugly smiled as he assured her it was ok felt very dismissive of the issue. It almost seemed to send out the message that it would have been OK if she had indeed taken advantage of Dean because she was hot. Like I said, I am sure that is not the message they were trying to convey, but nonetheless the scene just didn’t sit well with me. I think they really should have taken the time to show that the issue was important. It just wasn’t what had happened to Dean.

As I mentioned above, I was pleased with the fact that Castiel got a mention while Dean was trying to recall the most important figures in his life. However, that made Sam’s decision to not call him even stranger. I understand that the decision was most likely fuelled by behind the scene issue such as the fact Misha isn’t contracted to appear in every episode and they wanted the episodes focus to stay with the brothers. However, they could have attempted to provide an in character reason for the angels absence. For instance, now that he can no longer teleport, they could have had Sam tell Dean that he tried ringing Castiel, but he was far enough away that it would have taken him several days to get to Sam and Dean. This would have allowed Sam to make the logical decision to try receiving the help of a trusted ally before turning to the more dubious Rowena, while also providing a reason for Castiel to not come without giving the impression it was due to a lack of concern on his part.

Some random tidibts to finish off the review

-       I laughed when Rowena referred to the obliviate spell. It was a nice reference to the Harry Potter series for those of us who are fans of it.

-       I wasn’t a big fan of the montage at the end of the episode. It felt very random and gave the impression they were just trying to kill air time.

-       I felt for Rowena when she was being mocked by Catriona, and I admired her ability to remain calm until the right moment. I’m not sure I could have held my temper for as long as she did. However, I am not the biggest fan of them making a random witch we’ve never heard of before more powerful than her.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Wayward Son

[supernatural666]

I know this might be weird but can someone post a screenshot or screencap of Dean give the thumbs up after shooting the witch,It's just a friend of mine said he wanted a picture of that after it happen.

[catrox14]

17 minutes ago, supernatural666 said:

I know this might be weird but can someone post a screenshot or screencap of Dean give the thumbs up after shooting the witch,It's just a friend of mine said he wanted a picture of that after it happen.

Here you go.

source: http://yourfavoritedirector.tumblr.com/post/157045237888/1211

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

On the other hand, there were several things about the episode I was not that happy about. The first of these was the scene between the bartender and the brothers. I know that we weren’t meant to see Dean’s interaction with the waitress as the equivalent of being roofed up, especially since it took place before the spell, but nonetheless the way they handled it made me very uncomfortable. After all, the brothers did not have the comfort of knowing that, and the way Dean smugly smiled as he assured her it was ok felt very dismissive of the issue. It almost seemed to send out the message that it would have been OK if she had indeed taken advantage of Dean because she was hot. Like I said, I am sure that is not the message they were trying to convey, but nonetheless the scene just didn’t sit well with me. I think they really should have taken the time to show that the issue was important. It just wasn’t what had happened to Dean.

I had the same reaction. I didn't like that moment at all. I immediate felt that it was too close to a being roofed up thing and we know that Dean has been ruffied before when he was a teenager...so yeah that was uncomfortable for me too. 

[Wayward Son]

35 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I had the same reaction. I didn't like that moment at all. I immediate felt that it was too close to a being roofed up thing and we know that Dean has been ruffied before when he was a teenager...so yeah that was uncomfortable for me too. 

Thanks for responding :) . I was worried that I was being too sensitive and seeing things that were not there. It's nice to know that someone else had the same issue! -hugs- 

[AwesomO4000]

3 hours ago, SueB said:

There were a TON of "little moments" that add so much to this show.

Wonderful list. A few more more I'd like to add:

• One of Sam's questions to test Dean's memory was to name the members of Bon Jovi. Bwah. I'm loving the Bon Jovi references this season. It also may have amused me even more since I'm going to a Bon Jovi concert tonight. And I expect it will rock... on occasion.*
• Dean's waffles. I so wanted to eat that strawberry one. And interesting that uninhibited Dean likes waffles. Usually he's the pig-in-a-poke, sausage, hamburger dude while Sam's the one who gets the "short stack." Even his donut  sandwich thing had a hamburger in it I think... then again there was that cookie / cruller (?) monstrosity. Nice to see he can also appreciate the lowly waffle. (Did I mention that strawberry one looked yummy - well except I would've wanted no or at least less whipped cream, but I could've worked around that.)
• Sam making note of the photographs in the office. If he also did the sticky notes - which I now think he did - then at least he contributed some important stuff to the case and wasn't a complete incompetent (though getting caught wasn't too smart.) People on television always make the photo mistake. Personal photos in the office always lead your rivals to you or your family. Though in this case, I guess it helped to find the bad guy, so that was a nice twist on that trope, actually.
• Although I have somewhat mixed feelings - since we don't know how awful he might have been earlier - I liked that Sam gave the one man witch a chance to change / help / etc. Of course it wasn't going to happen - family and all - but I was glad Sam felt empathy for him that his sister went off the reservation for her own needs and made the mistake that doomed the rest.

(*Actually this is my fifth one at least - it could be my sixth - so I know Bon Jovi puts on a great show. The best part this time is that I'm taking my good friend who has never been to a Bon Jovi concert before, and I'm hoping she'll have a great time.)

Edited February 10, 2017 by AwesomO4000

[catrox14]

Dean rode Larry, the Mechanical Bull, after 4 shots of Tequila. So Dean was happy and relaxed and all flopping backwards on that bull when he was essentially sober because 4 shots of Tequila is nothing for Dean. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Diane]

5 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Wonderful list. A few more more I'd like to add:

• One of Sam's questions to test Dean's memory was to name the members of Bon Jovi. Bwah. I'm loving the Bon Jovi references this season. It also may have amused me even more since I'm going to a Bon Jovi concert tonight. And I expect it will rock... on occasion.*
• Dean's waffles. I so wanted to eat that strawberry one. And interesting that uninhibited Dean likes waffles. Usually he's the pig-in-a-poke, sausage, hamburger dude while Sam's the one who gets the "short stack." Even his donut  sandwich thing had a hamburger in it I think... then again there was that cookie / cruller (?) monstrosity. Nice to see he can also appreciate the lowly waffle. (Did I mention that strawberry one looked yummy - well except I would've wanted no or at least less whipped cream, but I could've worked around that.)
• Sam making note of the photographs in the office. If he also did the sticky notes - which I now think he did - then at least he contributed some important stuff to the case and wasn't a complete incompetent (though getting caught wasn't too smart.) People on television always make the photo mistake. Personal photos in the office always lead your rivals to you somehow, dummies.
• Although I have somewhat mixed feelings - since we don't know how awful he might have been earlier - I liked that Sam gave the one man witch a chance to change / help / etc. Of course it wasn't going to happen - family and all - but I was glad Sam felt empathy for him that his sister went off the reservation for her own needs and made the mistake that doomed the rest.

(*Actually this is my fifth one at least - it could be my sixth - so I know Bon Jovi puts on a great show. The best part this time is that I'm taking my good friend who has never been to a Bon Jovi concert before, and I'm hoping she'll have a great time.)

Enjoy the concert, I saw them a couple years back and they rocked the whole time.  It was a bucket list item.  Now if I can just see the Stones!

[DittyDotDot]

7 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

One of Sam's questions to test Dean's memory was to name the members of Bon Jovi. Bwah. I'm loving the Bon Jovi references this season.

Hee! During that scene I may have been mumbling that I bet AwesomO could help Dean out with that one! ;)

[AwesomO4000]

2 minutes ago, Diane said:

Enjoy the concert, I saw them a couple years back and they rocked the whole time.

Actually I kinda like it when they don't rock the whole time, since I also love many of their ballads, but the audience sometimes isn't patient enough to let them do the quiet stuff much. One of my favorites is when Jon sings Hallelujah.

But if they sing "Blaze of Glory" tonight, I'll take a moment to think of Dean.

[catrox14]

I gotta say, Sam going with Bon Jovi band members instead of Zeppelin band members was interesting to me. 

[bearcatfan]

7 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

One of Sam's questions to test Dean's memory was to name the members of Bon Jovi. Bwah. I'm loving the Bon Jovi references this season. It also may have amused me even more since I'm going to a Bon Jovi concert tonight. And I expect it will rock... on occasion.*

It's been years since I've been to a Bon Jovi concert. Have fun. I could name 80s Bon Jovi but I have no idea who replaced Richie Samora and Alec John Such. I wonder if Sam chose them because although they were considered a hair band in the 80s, we also know that Dean likes them, on occasion.

[AwesomO4000]

Just now, catrox14 said:

I gotta say, Sam going with Bon Jovi band members instead of Zeppelin band members was interesting to me. 

Sam probably doesn't know the members of Led Zeppelin. (And I don't blame him. *Ducks in case of flying tomatoes*)

[catrox14]

Just now, AwesomO4000 said:

But if they sing "Blaze of Glory" tonight, I'll take a moment to think of Dean.

Girrrrlll, if you don't think of Dean (and Sam) when they sing "Wanted Dead or Alive", I'm gonna have to ask for your SPN fan card back. LOL

[Diane]

1 minute ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Actually I kinda like it when they don't rock the whole time, since I also love many of their ballads, but the audience sometimes isn't patient enough to let them do the quiet stuff much. One of my favorites is when Jon sings Hallelujah.

But if they sing "Blaze of Glory" tonight, I'll take a moment to think of Dean.

I love his version of Hallelujah, it is beautiful. I agree ballad wise too, I was just kidding. Have fun!!!

[catrox14]

Just now, AwesomO4000 said:

Sam probably doesn't know the members of Led Zeppelin. (And I don't blame him. *Ducks in case of flying tomatoes*)

Well that was kind of my thought. Sam, dude. Come on, even if he didn't like Zeppelin, surely he knows Robert Plant and Jimmy Page, at least!

[DittyDotDot]

4 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Sam probably doesn't know the members of Led Zeppelin. (And I don't blame him. *Ducks in case of flying tomatoes*)

Plus, the test needed to really test Dean...he probably wouldn't have forgotten about Zepplin so easily. ;)

[Icarus]

I really enjoyed this episode, it is always a big plus for me if nothing takes me out of what is going on and that has been pretty rare recently. I do regret however reading too much about it before I watched, as I live in the UK I have to wait until I can download it and that means that I usually am watching the next evening UK time and I find it almost impossible to resist seeing what people have said about it before watching! (No will power!). Like some others, I used to find Rowena more irritating than not but in the last few episodes that she has been in I have really enjoyed her part in the story and especially in this one, absolutely loved her line about keeping Dean without his memories. I think that it is easier to write Rowena into an episode than either Castiel or Crowley, especially Castiel. Rowena, because she is not omnipotent can fit into most scenarios that the writers dream up and it does not seem that she is there just to fill up time Both Sam (Jared really did look tired in this episode, hope it was the make up) and Dean were so much a team and I loved that Dean, even having forgotten his own name, muscle memoried to call out a warning to SAM.

[PAForrest]

4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Thank you Meredith Glynn for acknowledging Dean is hot and has no trouble attracting women. Thank you in gneral for this ep. I have now marked her down as the Dean-friendliest writer on the show. Not that there is much competition but I shudder to think what the concept would have been like in the hands of Dabb or Perez. 

I can take Rowena in small doses usually but she worked for me here. Her moment of honesty was nicely done. And I think she truly enjoyed unburdened!Dean.

OMG, seriously, I am getting so tired of of the male writers on staff acting as if they're all jealous of Jensen's looks, which can be the only explanation for the constant barrage of alt-fact commentary in so many of their scripts. Clearly Glynn either didn't get the memo that they were all supposed to pretend Dean Winchester doesn't look exactly like Jensen Ackles, or she dismissed it and decided if she has eyes, so does her audience. So, thank you Meredith Glynn!

I too am coming to the conclusion that Glynn is the resident Dean fan on staff, which accounts for why one of the only other times this season I felt Dean had significant things to do was in the Hitler episode, which I liked for that reason.  She also appears to be the one writer on staff more interested in the Winchester brothers as leads and less in the guest-stars. IMO this script felt so much tighter for the fact that there were only three main characters and really very few guest-stars. The guest-stars were GUEST-STARS in the script! There simply to move the story along for the LEADS.

I love that Jensen was finally given material that was worth showing up to work for, and that the focus was on Dean for the first time in ... I can't remember the last time the focus was on Dean. Jensen got the overdue opportunity to flex his emotional muscles again and play a wide range, which we know he likes to do.

I also thought this was a strong script for the brothers' relationship, because there really aren't a lot of those episodes anymore either.

I like what Myrelle said here:

Quote

It was a memorial. To his lost childhood. The whole episode was, IMO. With a sprinkling of Rowena's backstory in there, too.

ETA: And to let the viewers know that he remembered everything that happened in this episode, even the stuff that happened while he was hexed-like Rowena's confession. And he knows that she reversed the spell. I loved their shared moment of laughter right afterward(sorry it had to be at Sam's expense, but the joy was so real. It almost looked like Jensen and Ruth instead of Dean and Rowena to me).

I really wondered about that final montage, because while it was awesome to see the shots of Dean on the mechanical bull that didn't appear anywhere else in the episode, my knee-jerk reaction was that it looked like a goodbye montage to a favorite character and actor who is moving on. From what I just read on twitter, apparently the decision to make the montage was the director's and editor's, it wasn't in the script. I like Myrelle's idea about the montage being a memorial to Dean's lost childhood, given the very child-like way Dean behaved in this episode as more and more of his memories slipped away.

Except, of course, for the heartbreaking scene in the bathroom mirror that was quintessential Jensen.

I really liked Rowena's interactions with the brothers in this episode too, and just enough further insight into her past and own insecurities that didn't overwhelm the main story.

Probably my favorite episode of the season.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I had to run home to wait on delivery people, and what better way to pass the time than to watch some new Winchester adventure, right?  I really liked it!  It was a good, fun (I know, that sounds weird, right?  What with how serious it got there in the middle, but it was FUN) MotW ep and break from the Devil baby mama drama and HMSS mess.   I can't wait to watch it again tonight.  I thought the humor and drama were very well balanced.  Dean reciting into the bathroom mirror was absolutely heartbreaking.  A couple nitpicks, nothing big.  I think most of the other comments have already covered everything.

• I can't believe Sam didn't check the book when he took it back from Roweena to make sure she didn't rip out any pages.  I didn't even think about her having switched the book as others suggested!
• I'm a little disappointed Sam got caught so easily - when he knew he was going into a house with an old, powerful witch family who'd already hit Dean with a hex that lasted after the witch died.  Seems he should have been extra on guard.   At least he managed to free himself - but only because Roweena and Dean caused a distraction.
• I thought Roweena was the most powerful witch out there?  Interesting that she wasn't.  
• Loved the post-its in the trunk.  First I thought it was Roweena - I mean, why would Sam have labeled the trunk when he took the impala and left Dean with Roweena at the motel?  But after reading the other posts, and trying my best to remember, I think it was Sam's handwriting.  
• Agree with @Bessie that I thought it was very weird that Sam wasn't present when Roweena reversed the hex and restored Dean's memory.  He waited down in the foyer?  Really?  Not right outside the door at least?
• Love that Roweena and Dean obviously conspired to pull the joke on Sam afterward though.   

16 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

*Yes, I love season 7. I'm weird.

I like S7 too.  

36 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Sam probably doesn't know the members of Led Zeppelin. (And I don't blame him. *Ducks in case of flying tomatoes*)

I can't even imagine that Dean didn't make Sam memorize the original lineup when they were kids!  lol.  

Edited February 10, 2017 by RulerofallIsurvey
spell check doesn't catch everything after all.

[Mick Lady]

5 hours ago, Demented Daisy said:

Well, that was meh-worthy.

I'm tired of the show trying to pretend like Sam, Dean, or Cas will be in some life (or worse)-threatening situation.  We all know that, by the end of the episode, everything will be back to the status quo.  After 12 seasons, everyone -- everyone! -- involved has got to start pushing themselves.  They're in a rut.  A stale, boring rut.

Make me care again!  Because right now, I feel no investment.  Not good.

Demented! Don't you dare give up on this show! I forbid you to give up on this show!

You have added so much to this forum, we can't lose you now. Don't make me stalk you....

[catrox14]

55 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Plus, the test needed to really test Dean...he probably wouldn't have forgotten about Zepplin so easily. ;)

See to me testing Dean about Zeppelin would have really been more definitive though. Like if at that point he couldn't remember Jimmy Page something he wouldn't easily forget then that would have told Sam just how bad it was for Dean.

[Mick Lady]

1 hour ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Wonderful list. A few more more I'd like to add:

• One of Sam's questions to test Dean's memory was to name the members of Bon Jovi. Bwah. I'm loving the Bon Jovi references this season. It also may have amused me even more since I'm going to a Bon Jovi concert tonight. And I expect it will rock... on occasion.*
• Dean's waffles. I so wanted to eat that strawberry one. And interesting that uninhibited Dean likes waffles. Usually he's the pig-in-a-poke, sausage, hamburger dude while Sam's the one who gets the "short stack." Even his donut  sandwich thing had a hamburger in it I think... then again there was that cookie / cruller (?) monstrosity. Nice to see he can also appreciate the lowly waffle. (Did I mention that strawberry one looked yummy - well except I would've wanted no or at least less whipped cream, but I could've worked around that.)
• Sam making note of the photographs in the office. If he also did the sticky notes - which I now think he did - then at least he contributed some important stuff to the case and wasn't a complete incompetent (though getting caught wasn't too smart.) People on television always make the photo mistake. Personal photos in the office always lead your rivals to you or your family. Though in this case, I guess it helped to find the bad guy, so that was a nice twist on that trope, actually.
• Although I have somewhat mixed feelings - since we don't know how awful he might have been earlier - I liked that Sam gave the one man witch a chance to change / help / etc. Of course it wasn't going to happen - family and all - but I was glad Sam felt empathy for him that his sister went off the reservation for her own needs and made the mistake that doomed the rest.

(*Actually this is my fifth one at least - it could be my sixth - so I know Bon Jovi puts on a great show. The best part this time is that I'm taking my good friend who has never been to a Bon Jovi concert before, and I'm hoping she'll have a great time.)

Awesom, you rock! Love Bon Jovi, seen him many times, including once at The Stone Pony.

When Sam asked Dean that question, Mick immediately listed everyone in the band. I love that about my husband!

He also said, "Why didn't he ask about Zeppelin instead?"

Edited February 10, 2017 by Mick Lady
spelling matters.

[DittyDotDot]

27 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

See to me testing Dean about Zeppelin would have really been more definitive though. Like if at that point he couldn't remember Jimmy Page something he wouldn't easily forget then that would have told Sam just how bad it was for Dean.

Yes, of course. However, it was just a silly joke--that apparently didn't play--at @AwesomO4000's jab at Zepplin. Because you know that Bon Jovi only rocks sometimes and and Zepplin rocks all the time. Hee!!

[FlickChick]

Have to rewatch. I find it interesting that I viewed some things differently than others did. I felt that Dean shouting "Sam" when he heard him in trouble, was a script mistake. If in front of the mirror, (heartbreaking scene) he couldn't remember his own name, I don't believe that as the spell worsened, he would remember his brother's name. Also, I don't understand why people believe that when Dean was riding the mechanical bull at the end, it was an indication that he remembered the scenes that were shown. I thought the director just decided to show Dean riding the bull while the song played and added a few scenes for interest. Honestly, I considered it filler. But never let it be said that I didn't appreciate the ride. ;)

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, FlickChick said:

I felt that Dean shouting "Sam" when he heard him in trouble, was a script mistake. If in front of the mirror, (heartbreaking scene) he couldn't remember his own name, I don't believe that as the spell worsened, he would remember his brother's name

I looked at Dean's memory loss as being akin to how dementia occurs especially as it progresses.  My mom went through this when I was caring for her.   She wouldn't be able to remember my brother's name but she could remember mine. But the next day she couldn't remember my name but could remember the neighbor across the street. She couldn't remember how to make a cup of tea one day and the next day she could.  It was all pretty random.

That's why I could believe that Dean couldn't remember his name but could remember Sam's in that moment.  That's just my take on it. 

[catrox14]

LOOOL. TippiTV continues to be hilarious.

http://tippitv.tumblr.com/post/157081414217/whenever-deans-about-to-ride-a-mechanical-bull

 

Quote

Whenever Dean’s about to ride a mechanical bull.

[MysteryGuest]

My mother also died from Alzheimer's and her symptoms were similar when she first began to really forget people.  She would have good days and bad days, and sometimes just good moments throughout the day.  It's a truly horrifying disease for the patient and for the family.  In those moments when she was lucid, she knew exactly what was happening to her and it was terrifying for her.  And having to watch someone you love go through that is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.  That first time that she truly didn't know who I was, and looked at me with fear in her eyes because I was a stranger to her will be forever etched in my memory.  And it's a disease that takes it's time.  My mother was physically healthy in every other way, so she lived for years beyond the point where she was able to remember anyone or communicate in any way.  Life can absolutely suck sometimes.

Sorry...didn't mean to go off on that tangent.  I did just rewatch the episode again, and I enjoyed it much more this time.  Again, the lack of commercials makes a big difference.  I think both Jensen and Jared did a great job with conveying by facial expression exactly what they were feeling.  And it was nice to have them be the main focal point of the story.  Rowena rounded out the episode nicely, and I've really come to enjoy her character.  Which means they'll probably be killing her off soon.

Edited February 11, 2017 by MysteryGuest

[7kstar]

10 hours ago, Demented Daisy said:

Well, that was meh-worthy.

I'm tired of the show trying to pretend like Sam, Dean, or Cas will be in some life (or worse)-threatening situation.  We all know that, by the end of the episode, everything will be back to the status quo.  After 12 seasons, everyone -- everyone! -- involved has got to start pushing themselves.  They're in a rut.  A stale, boring rut.

Make me care again!  Because right now, I feel no investment.  Not good.

So would you have enjoyed it more as it would just be a permanent loss of memories.  I won't say I loved every moment but I did find some moments really good.  Some over the top.  But it has been one of the better ones for me.  I guess I found it better than I expected so that made me happy. 

But then again I can read the same type of fanficiton and enjoy it.  lol

[rue721]

Wow, I was unprepared for how weird that montage at the end was. It seemed like the ending credit sequence for a 90s TV movie. The extreme corniness of replaying scenes from the episode itself but in semi-slow-mo and set to an uber-sentimental soundtrack was what made it feel especially dated and chintzy, I think.

Overall, I thought it was a pretty good episode...it didn't quite land for me, though? I dunno, I was surprised that I didn't like it more. Not a lot happened, but it also felt weirdly too fast paced. The memory loss was really choppy, and I wanted to spend more time watching Dean slowly unravel, I guess. But there just wasn't enough time for that.

I like Rowena, and I just love her chemistry with the Winchesters, especially Sam -- so she was a highlight.

Oh, someone mentioned earlier that it didn't seem right that this random witch who nobody had ever heard of was more powerful than Rowena. It made me think, AFAIK we actually only know that Rowena is extremely smart, extremely shrewd, and extremely dedicated -- we don't actually know how she stacks up directly against other witches in terms of her power. She's not one to usually go head to head like that. Crowley always says that she's an amazing witch, the most powerful, etc, but maybe he just has a skewed opinion of her because he's her son. Maybe she's just awesome but not especially powerful lol.

[Mick Lady]

2 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

My mother also died from Alzheimer's and her symptoms were similar when she first began to really forget people.  She would have good days and bad days, and sometimes just good moments throughout the day.  It's a truly horrifying disease for the patient and for the family.  In those moments when she was lucid, she knew exactly what was happening to her and it was terrifying for her.  And having to watch someone you love go through that is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.  That first time that she truly didn't know who I was, and looked at me with fear in her eyes because I was a stranger to her will be forever etched in my memory.  And it's a disease that takes it's time.  My mother was physically healthy in every other way, so she lived for years beyond the point where she was able to remember anyone or communicate in any way.  Life can absolutely suck sometimes.

Sorry...didn't mean to go off on that tangent.  I did just rewatch the episode again, and I enjoyed it much more this time.  Again, the lack of commercials makes a big difference.  I think both Jensen and Jared did a great job with conveying by facial expression exactly what they were feeling.  And it was nice to have them be the main focal point of the story.  Rowena rounded out the episode nicely, and I've really come to enjoy her character.  Which means they'll probably be killing her off soon.

When through the exact same thing MysteryGuest. I wish I could give you a great big hug! No one understands what this is like, unless they've lived through it. Bless you.

[roctavia]

This episode was fun, and nice to have a break from the season long arcs. I also like Rowena, so it was different to have her be the call for help this time. Dean did tell Sam not to call Mary or Cas, so maybe Sam was trying to be nice and do what Dean asked by calling Rowena instead.

Has anyone seen Regarding Henry? I just assumed that the montage was sort of related to the movie or something (which sounds probably wrong based on what someone above saw from the team on twitter, but it's the story I'm sticking to so it makes more sense :P)

I enjoyed the brother's interactions and Sam initially thinking it was just Dean trying to deal with all that had happened recently. I think they both did a great job showing the toll that Dean's spell was taking on them.

Definitely Sam labeled the trunk, it was his just in case, since of course Dean would go check the trunk ;)

[rue721]

4 minutes ago, roctavia said:

Has anyone seen Regarding Henry? I just assumed that the montage was sort of related to the movie or something

I don't think the montage had anything to do with Regarding Henry. It's been a long time since I saw that movie, though.

[mertensia]

I thought this was an excellent episode. I thought Rowena was the smarter choice (rather than Cas) because it was witchcraft-and what if it had been something that she realized, when she got there, that she could reverse fairly easily? Time wasted by calling Cas first.

[Katy M]

6 hours ago, roctavia said:

 

Has anyone seen Regarding Henry? I just assumed that the montage was sort of related to the movie or something (which sounds probably wrong based on what someone above saw from the team on twitter, but it's the story I'm sticking to so it makes more sense :P)

 

I saw Regarding Henry eons ago, didn't particularly like it.  But, there was no montage.  Actually, the ending of that movie was pretty much the only part I liked.

 

7 hours ago, rue721 said:

The memory loss was really choppy, and I wanted to spend more time watching Dean slowly unravel, I guess. But there just wasn't enough time for that.

 

That is 100% how I feel. 

[Demented Daisy]

10 hours ago, 7kstar said:

So would you have enjoyed it more as it would just be a permanent loss of memories.

No, I would have enjoyed it more if it had been happening to the PiP and Sam and Dean had to figure out how to save him/her.  There's no urgency when the audience knows that the leads will never be in any real danger.  I spent most of the episode thinking, "Okay, get on with it."

Sam and Dean used to connect with the people they were saving.  I miss when Sam and Dean's job was to save humanity.  For far too long, IMO, the show has been about saving Sam, saving Dean, or both.  For far too long, Sam and Dean have been breaking the world, then trying to save it.

But I'm straying dangerously close to the bitterness thread, so I'll stop now.  @Mick Lady I have no plans to give up on the show, but we'll see what happens with the rest of the season.

[DittyDotDot]

8 hours ago, rue721 said:

Oh, someone mentioned earlier that it didn't seem right that this random witch who nobody had ever heard of was more powerful than Rowena. It made me think, AFAIK we actually only know that Rowena is extremely smart, extremely shrewd, and extremely dedicated -- we don't actually know how she stacks up directly against other witches in terms of her power. She's not one to usually go head to head like that. Crowley always says that she's an amazing witch, the most powerful, etc, but maybe he just has a skewed opinion of her because he's her son. Maybe she's just awesome but not especially powerful lol.

She's been established as pretty powerful and a natural, at that--I mean, she healed Amara and can't be killed because of the spell in her leg. But, it didn't bother me this other witch was just as powerful because Rowena said the family of witches were people who other witches would go to to study witchcraft. They'd have to be very powerful if they were helping others hone their skills and they've been around and honing their own skills longer than Rowena.

[ahrtee]

11 hours ago, Mick Lady said:

When through the exact same thing MysteryGuest. I wish I could give you a great big hug! No one understands what this is like, unless they've lived through it. Bless you.

Me, too, though Mom did sort of know me (though not my name) till near the end.  I could handle it for me, but it was so hard to see her be so scared and lost (and finally just giving up) and knowing that there was nothing I could do to make it better/easier for her.  Hugs to all.  

[bethy]

On second watch, it looked to me like Sam was kind of teary-eyed after Dean pretended he still didn't remember. Like as annoyed as he was to have been played, Sam was still overcome by having his brother back to give him a hard time. 

[Myrelle]

I re-watched with my friend yesterday and all the one-liners and JA's facial expressions made this one so reminiscent of the early seasons of this show. They've been mentioned already, but Dean's face when Rowena mentioned God and his sister?-Gold. Pure Gold. And "Oh, your hair...it's so bouncy." cracked me up. And then "I think you've got plenty of snuff." I loved Dean and Rowena on the second viewing even more than on the first. I thought Ruth Connell's acting was much too OTT when she first came onto the show, but when she had that scene in the bar/pool room with Jensen in Inside Man everything about her acting changed, IMO, and she and her character improved immensely for me after that.

I looked at my friend after our re-watch and said I think I'd love to see Dean and Rowena work a case together after this one. ;-)

Edited February 11, 2017 by Myrelle

[MysteryGuest]

18 minutes ago, bethy said:

On second watch, it looked to me like Sam was kind of teary-eyed after Dean pretended he still didn't remember. Like as annoyed as he was to have been played, Sam was still overcome by having his brother back to give him a hard time. 

I noticed that too, and it's why I thought Jared did such a great job at portraying his fears for Dean.  In that moment, he honestly thought they weren't able to cure him, and you could see the devastation on his face.  I don't always give Jared props for his acting, but I think he was excellent this week.  

[7kstar]

3 hours ago, Demented Daisy said:

I miss when Sam and Dean's job was to save humanity.  For far too long, IMO, the show has been about saving Sam, saving Dean, or both.

I wouldn't mind seeing this either.  I get your point and since I never thought Dean was dying...as they would let him die.  I just sat back and enjoyed the ride of how long would it take Sam to figure out what was wrong and I enjoyed Rowena in this one.  So would I liked to fix some stuff, sure but it had enough moments that I'd put this on a good ep and worth watching again.  Best ep ever...NOPE.  :)

[rue721]

45 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

And "Oh, your hair...it's so bouncy." cracked me up. And then "I think you've got plenty of snuff." I loved Dean and Rowena on the second viewing even more than on the first.

Yeah, Dean was so sweet to Rowena the entire time. Even when she first arrived, he lit up like, "oh, who is this awesome bouncy-haired person?!" LOL. He bonded with her immediately and just kept it up. So sweet how he immediately tried to reassure her that she had "plenty of snuff" when she talked about other witches being hard on her. LOL.

In retrospect, that's such an odd and funny choice for the script (but I really liked it). I wonder why/how the writer thought to go in that direction?

I also liked that apparently, Dean's default personality is really peppy and enthusiastic. Every time Sam would tell him about something, even if it was totally weird and awful, he would immediately be like, "OMG that's wonderful! That's amazing!" Like when he saw some dead bodies on Sam's computer screen:  "Oh wow, how cool! I've never seen a dead body before!" (Not a direct quote :P). Are we meant to think that's what he was like as a little kid?!

My grandma has dementia and as her personality has been stripped down, she's become more upbeat and childlike, too. I always think, I'm so thankful that she has a fundamentally good personality. It's interesting to think about who a person becomes when their personality is stripped down to its essence. When I was a very little kid, I was intense, watchful, and very withdrawn, and that would be a whole lot less fun to deal with. Like, for some people, "childlike" isn't as upbeat, enthusiastic, and warm as Dean's version of it is! (Or my grandma's is lol).

It would have been interesting to see everybody's personalities stripped down like that. The concept of this episode was really interesting and cool (if a bit heavy)...and a Tabula Rasa kind of episode where everyone goes through something like Dean went through this time would be pretty great, too. I'd be very interested to see the whole group together -- including Crowley, Rowena, and Mary -- getting to know each other as "blank slates," and to see the difference in how they connect to each other or the similarities/differences in their personalities without all the "baggage" of life experience.

Anyway, IRL I think everybody loses their memory and cognition ability differently -- so Dean remembering Sam's name when he didn't remember his didn't bother me. My grandma does that stuff all the time, too. I think it's like the brain is misfiring, so it's not predictable what a person is going to know/remember/understand at any given time. Plus, Dean didn't actually have dementia or anything, he was suffering from a spell. So it could work differently.

The only thing that really didn't make sense to me is that he forgot how to drive a car, then his own name, and then even who Sam was, but apparently never forgot how to read. You'd think that reading would go sometime pretty soon after driving did. But eh --

That said, I'm OK with Dean remembering how to read, because the post-it notes were fantastic. Maybe the best thing in the whole episode IMO!

[Geordiegirl1967]

18 hours ago, FlickChick said:

I felt that Dean shouting "Sam" when he heard him in trouble, was a script mistake. If in front of the mirror, (heartbreaking scene) he couldn't remember his own name, I don't believe that as the spell worsened, he would remember his brother's name.

I think this, and other scenes in the ep, were meant to underline to us just how deeply Dean and Sam are connected and how much being a hunter is pre programmed into Dean. When the chips were down Dean knew at a really fundamental level that Sam is his brother, that he needs to save him and how to kill bad guys. I don't think it was a script mistake. I think it was there to emphasise that getting Dean to forget he is Sam's brother is damned hard!

[auntvi]

17 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I also liked that apparently, Dean's default personality is really peppy and enthusiastic.

Sam said he looked happy. All the horrible things that corroded his body and soul were forgotten. It would be interesting to see what Sam would be like - I feel like I could count on one hand the number of times he's laughed.