Ask Me Anything #2 / 2017.01.17

[LilWharveyGal]

4 minutes ago, Wavy said:

I thought Leah said they allowed you to practice a religion besides Scientology.  One of them (Juliette Lewis?) claims to be a Christian and a Scientologist.

Mike Rinda and Tony Ortega recently blogged on this topic.  It may be allowed/tolerated, but it sounds like LRH and die-hard scientologists would disagree.

[geekgirl921]

That transgressions against humanity comment was total sarcasm. I found her talking about not having an "in" for recruiting Kevin James because I wondered about that with Jennifer Lopez. Leah talks in her book (which I am just finishing) about the church wanting to recruit J-Lo and I wondered what they thought their "in" was. She was already wildly successful and at the time her marriage was stable.
I think Mike Rinder was trained by Scientology to be stoic and also, he has been doing this a lot longer than Leah. I think he has long since made peace with these people that they are talking to and I also think those people know that the person they were dealing with then was a victim of a cult.
I find the LRH stuff fascinating! If you haven't read or seen Going Clear, I highly recommend it. You would think if the government was going to create fake documents to cover for LRH's "covert" activity, they would do a better job and produce things that weren't so easily proven false. I understand there are people who still believe in Scientology but believe that Miscavige has ruined it. I can kind of see how they would think that since he seems like such a psychopath compared to LRH. If you read Going Clear, though, you can see that LRH was just as bad and a huge liar!

[veronicamers]

12 minutes ago, Wavy said:

I thought Leah said they allowed you to practice a religion besides Scientology.  One of them (Juliette Lewis?) claims to be a Christian and a Scientologist.

There have been multiple celebrities who have said this publicly (Beck and Katie Holmes come to mind), but I don't think it is actually in line with LRH doctrine. Are celebrities being given nudges to say these things publicly to offset some of the bad publicity? It's like that interview with Laura Prepon where she said she'd never heard anything anti-homosexual in Scientology. Tony Ortega took her to task on this given that LRH's essential texts very clearly lay out the COS position against homosexuality. So assuming she's read it (and actually, shouldn't she have it memorized as a devout Scientologist?), she's just lying like a rug.

[RedheadZombie]

15 hours ago, ketose said:

The other thing about Mike Rinder is that he's been doing this and talking to these people for years. Leah's reactions are more authentic because she hadn't met former Scientologists and the victims of Scientology. Rinder may be all cried out.

You're so right about this.  Rinder has become inured to these stories because he's known about them, and talked to these very people about them, for years.  In my personal life, I would compare it to being a brand new nurse, versus a seasoned one.  You never stop caring that people are suffering, you just learn to control you're reaction, and use your energy to help them, rather than crying with them.

[RedheadZombie]

11 hours ago, Diane Mars said:

Hi there ! Not read all the posts here (this week is quite hectic) and if it has already been posted, sorry.

Well, when Leah was asked what she wanted to ask Miscavige if he was in front of her, I was really surprised by her answer, because I was waiting for something like : "Where is Shelley ?" and it then clicked in my head : OK, maybe THAT's the hot topic which will be disucssed in S2 and that's why they didn't talked about it in this season...

Am I the only one ?

I was confused because I swear Leah already answered that question, and said she would say nothing to DM.  Maybe she's had more time to think out a different response.

Regarding Shelley, for some reason I feel like she now knows where Shelley is.  Rinder seems like the type of guy to know that answer. 

[Chaos Theory]

No matter how high up in Scientology ranks you got and how much damage you did to others at some point you just have to let it all go and move on.  That is why i don't think Rinder owes anyone any apologies past the helping them get out if they want out and doing this special otherwise he will be apologizing forever to everyone and he will be attached to Scientology forever.    

[luvmylabs]

When the question was asked of Leah, "What would you say to DM if you could talk with him now?"  I screamed at the TV, "Where's Shelley?"

[RedheadZombie]

2 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

I'd love to ask the CO$ why they are using a CROSS as part of the symbolism.  They are not a Christ-centered organization; indeed their whole cosmology is centered around Xenu the Crazy and volcanos, etc. - nothing to do with Christian-based faith.  The cross is a symbol for the Christ.  So they are even duplicitous in this.

I'm sure it's intention was to trick.  But the cross is very similar to the one associated with Aleister Crowley (a founding father of Satanism), and someone LRH was associated with.

Here's a Village Voice article discussing LRH's connection to the occult.  http://www.villagevoice.com/news/scientology-and-the-occult-hugh-urbans-new-exploration-of-l-ron-hubbard-and-aleister-crowley-6662160

[Giselle]

3 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

I'd love to ask the CO$ why they are using a CROSS as part of the symbolism.  They are not a Christ-centered organization; indeed their whole cosmology is centered around Xenu the Crazy and volcanos, etc. - nothing to do with Christian-based faith.  The cross is a symbol for the Christ.  So they are even duplicitous in this.

I thought someone said here or they said in this series or some blog that each point represented one of the 8 tenets, 8 ot levels of co$ or some crap like that. 

34 minutes ago, luvmylabs said:

When the question was asked of Leah, "What would you say to DM if you could talk with him now?"  I screamed at the TV, "Where's Shelley?"

me too!

Edited January 19, 2017 by Giselle

[ketose]

4 hours ago, MaggieG said:

This just made me stop and think. Tom Cruise is known for doing dangerous stunts himself, especially for those Mission Impossible movies. He climbed up the side of the Burj Khalifa and also clung to the side of an airplane. I wonder if he does those because he thinks he can't get hurt.

Well, he could certainly cure his own Pinkeye.

[ParadoxLost]

3 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

No matter how high up in Scientology ranks you got and how much damage you did to others at some point you just have to let it all go and move on.  That is why i don't think Rinder owes anyone any apologies past the helping them get out if they want out and doing this special otherwise he will be apologizing forever to everyone and he will be attached to Scientology forever.    

I don't actually believe that DM is the only one that really gets what is going on.  There is a reason that the rash of exec defections happened around the time DM created the Hole.  They didn't suddenly become aware of and sorry about the abuses they were perpetrating.  They were suddenly not part of the protected class of Co$ and got out.

So I think apologies are warranted.  I just don't think it amounts to saying sorry to every person he ever wronged.  Which basically agrees with what you are saying.

There are "easy" ways and hard ways to leave Scientology.  You can sign away your rights to speak negatively about them and get all your prepaid auditing money back and avoid the harassment.  Or you can refuse and it costs you both money and peace of mind and your family.  If you go full on activist against them then its all out war and constant harassment.

So the ex-Scientology members that choose the hard path are doing better than apologizing.  They are taking action to help others at a personal cost which I find more meaningful than 'I'm sorry'.

[AZChristian]

7 hours ago, Meadow said:

I'm going to Florida next month and I so want to wear a shirt that says, "Where's Shelly?".  I won't, because I'm a coward like that.  But I'd love to see that become a thing.

We're going from Phoenix over to L.A. in March, and hubby has agreed to a slight detour to drive past the Scientology compound with the prison trailers.  May I borrow your t-shirt when you're done with it?  

[Cosmic Muffin]

A friend was briefly in the cult decades ago. One of his jobs was polishing LRon's desk. I think this was in FL though, so they have several homes waiting for him. Friend got out but he and his family were harassed by scienos demanding payment for classes for years. Friend is still gay, and also happily married (to a man).

[Wings]

50 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

We're going from Phoenix over to L.A. in March, and hubby has agreed to a slight detour to drive past the Scientology compound with the prison trailers.  May I borrow your t-shirt when you're done with it?  

How exciting!  LOL!  Take pictures. 

[Tiger]

On 1/18/2017 at 1:47 PM, iMonrey said:

Nor am I suggesting that she should. But let's face it, the rumors about Cruise and Travolta are one of the biggest things associated with Scientology. Since she allowed the question about the church's position on homosexuality the next logical step is to acknowledge that some people may join the church in the hope of being "cured." She doesn't need to name names.

Whether he "needs" to or not is a judgment call on the part of those he has wronged. My point was that he looked rather stoic in the face of a guest telling him how scared he used to be of him. So he came off as kind of an ass, frankly. 

 

On 1/18/2017 at 2:39 PM, CatMomma said:

I just can't agree with this.  This series is about the Scientology organization. Leah made it clear that Scientology believes homosexuality is deviant behavior and that ONLY Scientology can be the cure through auditing.  I see no reason to specifically say that people join to "cure" their homosexuality because that really isn't the point. The point is that the church is harming, even targeting, people who are vulnerable.

As a bi-bro, I think this shit, and I do mean shit, about 'auditing the gay out' is the most disgusting thing i've learned about $cientology.  

On 1/18/2017 at 2:56 PM, TaraS1 said:

Yes! I knew there was something else she said that cracked me up!  "Your shit was crazier than our shit!"  Brilliant lol.

I also greatly enjoyed her reaction to hearing about sheep-dipping.

I had to pause my dvr because I laughed for a solid three minutes.  

6 hours ago, Meadow said:

~dying laughing~  Especially at Lord Donia's "You don't have the rank to wear that shirt!"  

I would so wear the shirt, but I have kids and I'm not taking the slightest risk of poking the crazy and having them get harassed.  But how I would love to be on Season 2 of Rindah and Remini and have Leah open with her putting on her reading glasses and saying...

"Here is what the Church of Scientology has to say about Meadow:

Meadow is an adulteress who flirts shamelessly with a married man who has already been declared evil, abusive, and a pathological liar.  She repeatedly practices medicine without a license in a pathetic attempt to diagnose Church officials with serious psychological conditions, even going so far as to proclaim them as 'possessed by demons'.  Meadow is in desperate need of getting on with her life and getting off of her computer." 

Be careful . . .  they're tactics will result in some true hilarity.  Last week I posted something about Miscavige on Insta, and the next morning someone had posted crazy comments on every picture going back almost two years.  I've found out since that this person is a work acquaintance of my S.O. who I've never actually met.  Why she was following me on Insta is a mystery.  Anyway, she has been saying some increasingly batshitcrazy about me and my S.O. but lucikly everyone knows she is batshit.   And all I did was post a meme about Miscavige.

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

We're going from Phoenix over to L.A. in March, and hubby has agreed to a slight detour to drive past the Scientology compound with the prison trailers.  May I borrow your t-shirt when you're done with it?  

 

43 minutes ago, wings707 said:

How exciting!  LOL!  Take pictures. 

Just make sure your license plates are obliterated with mud before you do.  Wearing a disguise might also be a good idea.

Edited January 20, 2017 by walnutqueen

[ParadoxLost]

18 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Be careful . . .  they're tactics will result in some true hilarity.  Last week I posted something about Miscavige on Insta, and the next morning someone had posted crazy comments on every picture going back almost two years.  I've found out since that this person is a work acquaintance of my S.O. who I've never actually met.  Why she was following me on Insta is a mystery.  Anyway, she has been saying some increasingly batshitcrazy about me and my S.O. but lucikly everyone knows she is batshit.   And all I did was post a meme about Miscavige.

This is why I can't be on social media.  My knee jerk reaction was that you should start tweeting Ballads of Suppressive Persons in solidarity.

Maybe a little Dawson's Creek theme music or some Moulin Rogue.  Then I went down the rabbit hole and listened to a bit of the musical parts of South Park's "Trapped in the Closet" and all of "David Duchovony".  Then I found a video of "David Duchovony" being sung live to David Duchovony.

So thanks Scientology for making David Duchovony a suppressive person.  Or rather, thanks David Duchovony for managing to become a suppressive person without ever dabbling in Scientology.

[Court]

I read Rinder's reaction as mortified that he had done things to cause that fear. I also saw him just listening to show he felt he deserved to be told these things.

[zxy556575]

10 hours ago, Meadow said:

"Here is what the Church of Scientology has to say about Meadow:

Meadow is an adulteress who flirts shamelessly with a married man who has already been declared evil, abusive, and a pathological liar. She repeatedly practices medicine without a license in a pathetic attempt to diagnose Church officials with serious psychological conditions, even going so far as to proclaim them as 'possessed by demons'.  Meadow is in desperate need of getting on with her life and getting off of her computer." 

Love it! Should we do a Scientology SP humor/memes thread? I've got some KRs bubbling up about the lot of you.

[pinguina]

I read an article a few months ago (around October I think) about Shelly Miscavige and it talked about where she has been (I'm not exactly sure for how long she has been there).  It showed pictures of Shelly M. somewhere up near Big Bear ( a small community/town up in the mountains ).  She was accompanied by two or three people who seemed to be "taking care of her".  She looked terrible!

[green]

18 hours ago, Meadow said:

I'm a stoic.  I do not complain or let my suffering show.  But a lack of emotional response to someone else's pain is not a perfectly fine way to go through life (and I'm sure you didn't mean it that way).  It's the sign of a sociopath (and I'm sure I don't mean that Mike Rinder is one!).  I adore Mike Rinder.  I think there is every reason to believe that he felt deep emotion in the face of Steve Hassan's pain.  For all we know, Rinder has been trained always to be non-reactive... or he and Hassan have already had this conversation in private... or the camera editing was wonky or whatever.  I just think that for the sake of everyone's healing... victims', Rinder's, audiences'... it might behoove Rinder to be extra generous with a whispered "I'm so sorry".  bam  So powerful.

This was too me.  I simply disagree with the need to show great external angst every time.  Especially over and over again in front of a camera where it will start to seem he is playing the the camera after awhile.  You don't want that.  You want to keep it real.  And if real is being a stoic on camera that is cool.  Leah sheds enough tears for the both of them.

9 hours ago, Giselle said:

I thought someone said here or they said in this series or some blog that each point represented one of the 8 tenets, 8 ot levels of co$ or some crap like that.

That was the question about the cross.  And yes that is the official explanation but if there are 8 tenets then it should look more like a kid's drawing of a snowflake with all 8 "tenets" being of equal length than a cross. 

You can bet the house they (Hubbard I assume) came up with that symbol knowing full well 99% of people would mistake it as a cross thus trying to deceive people into believing they were a Christian organization coupled with "science".  A way to draw both the religious-minded and the scientific-minded both in through the front door and into the brainwashing rooms.  Also a nice symbol to use when trying to convince the IRS that they are a religion.

And yeah Crowley's group used something similar so Hubbard wasn't even too original.

[Diane Mars]

3 hours ago, pinguina said:

I read an article a few months ago (around October I think) about Shelly Miscavige and it talked about where she has been (I'm not exactly sure for how long she has been there).  It showed pictures of Shelly M. somewhere up near Big Bear ( a small community/town up in the mountains ).  She was accompanied by two or three people who seemed to be "taking care of her".  She looked terrible!

I read it too, but the timing was so odd (something like 2 days after an ep where shelley was briefly mentionned) and I don't believe for one second that it was her (and, if it was, I'm not enven sure she was aware of what was around her)

Edited January 20, 2017 by Diane Mars

[larapu2000]

On 1/19/2017 at 11:58 AM, Meadow said:

Oh my gosh, I was so caught up in whether my beautiful Mike Rindah is part cyborg that I missed the thing about babies not needing Kool cigarettes, lol!  

I was a little alarmed at Leah's answer to the "What would you say to David Miscavige" question (and I think My Beautiful Mike Rindah -tm was, too).  She seemed to think that Scientology is salvageable, if he would clean up his act.  Rinder and I were both looking at her like, "Uh... honey?  Are we not on the same page that the whole thing is a bunch of hooey?  'Cause I thought we were."

I'm going to Florida next month and I so want to wear a shirt that says, "Where's Shelly?".  I won't, because I'm a coward like that.  But I'd love to see that become a thing.

I'd like to buy 100, please.

I'd also like t-shirts people can wear in California with her picture that say "Help Shelly escape!!!!"

Edited January 20, 2017 by larapu2000

[3girlsforus]

Several people have mentioned that the wearabouts of Shelly could be the legal action they can't talk about. But I'm curious. I don't know how these things work, but does either Mike or Leah have legal standing to force legal action in her disappearance. I know law enforcement has problems sometimes when someone disappears without evidence of a crime and the family members aren't pushing it as a problem because it isn't illegal for an adult to just vanish. Can an outsider get law enforcement to force COS to produce her? It seems like the same issue with trying to get people out of the Hole. They will just claim that they want to be there. 

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, 3girlsforus said:

Several people have mentioned that the wearabouts of Shelly could be the legal action they can't talk about. But I'm curious. I don't know how these things work, but does either Mike or Leah have legal standing to force legal action in her disappearance. I know law enforcement has problems sometimes when someone disappears without evidence of a crime and the family members aren't pushing it as a problem because it isn't illegal for an adult to just vanish. Can an outsider get law enforcement to force COS to produce her? It seems like the same issue with trying to get people out of the Hole. They will just claim that they want to be there. 

Leah did file a missing person's report.  The police "investigated" and said they talked to someone who told them that she was okay.  Case closed.  There was a whiff of thought that Co$ pressure was put high up in the police department (political clout).  I don't doubt it.

[AZChristian]

12 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

Just make sure your license plates are obliterated with mud before you do.  Wearing a disguise might also be a good idea.

We were in San Diego a few months ago, looking for the Point Loma lighthouse.  Our GPS incorrectly directed us the guardhouse at the nearby Marine Corps base.  Maybe we could pull the old people's "my GPS said this is Denny's in Hemet" excuse at the Co$ guardhouse.

Nope . . . not taking THAT chance!!!

12 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

[3girlsforus]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

Leah did file a missing person's report.  The police "investigated" and said they talked to someone who told them that she was okay.  Case closed.  There was a whiff of thought that Co$ pressure was put high up in the police department (political clout).  I don't doubt it.

I don't doubt it either so I guess if they can prove there was pressure they could get the missing person report open again. 

 

Edited to add - I guess my original question is what would it take to get the police, even without COS pressure, to take it seriously and demand answers. All you have to do it watch a bunch of those Dateline shows and you know the first things people are told is that without evidence of foul play it's not a police investigation since adults don't have to account for their whereabouts. 

Edited January 20, 2017 by 3girlsforus

[TaraS1]

On 1/19/2017 at 0:32 PM, Lord Donia said:

You don't have the rank to wear that shirt!

ROTFL!  That's brilliant.  I wish I was crazy enough to make that my catchphrase for everything.  Like just walking into Subway and telling someone they don't have the fucking rank to eat that meatball sub.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The cross is a symbol for the Christ.  So they are even duplicitous in this.

It may well be deliberately misleading, but in fact the sign of the cross pre-dates Christianity going all the way back to ancient Egypt. Certainly it's most closely associated with Christianity in modern times but they didn't invent the thing.

[Meadow]

1 hour ago, TaraS1 said:

ROTFL!  That's brilliant.  I wish I was crazy enough to make that my catchphrase for everything.  Like just walking into Subway and telling someone they don't have the fucking rank to eat that meatball sub.

New shirt plan:  "You don't have the *$@& rank to read this shirt!"

[CatMomma]

18 hours ago, Tiger said:

 

As a bi-bro, I think this shit, and I do mean shit, about 'auditing the gay out' is the most disgusting thing i've learned about $cientology.  

 

Oh, I agree. And, not to go off on a tangent, but I'm kinda tired of the implication that John Travolta and Tom Cruise are homosexuals.  I think in all likely hood, they are bisexual or pansexual.  Not a big thing, It just bugs me because it feels like an erasure of a very real sexuality.  And this type of "curing homosexuality" bullshit is what leads to things like JT allegedly assaulting men.  It really fucks with their head and is mentally abusive.

I can't explain it, but I have a lot of sympathy for Travolta. Not so much for Cruise.  I just feel like Travolta has really been victimized by Scientology.  Just watching "Going Clear" and hearing Spanky Taylor's story makes me believe there is a part of him that understands how bad things are, but just can't bring himself to leave. He pretty much told her to get out.

Editing to add, I think the reason I have no sympathy for Cruise is because I just don't think he is a nice man, He is great at acting like a nice man.  In reality, I think he is self-absorbed, narcissistic, and truly believes his own hype.  I just don't get that vibe from Travolta. 

Edited January 20, 2017 by CatMomma

[Ms.Moon]

I am so obsessed with this series it is not even funny.  I watched this all day Monday completely enraptured.  I think Leah was completely right to get out and to think all of this would have been no issue is Miscavige had just told Leah that Shelly was building homes for the disadvantaged in Peru or something.  

Quote

 I'm kinda tired of the implication that John Travolta and Tom Cruise are homosexuals.  I think in all likely hood, they are bisexual or pansexual.  Not a big thing, It just bugs me because it feels like an erasure of a very real sexuality.  And this type of "curing homosexuality" bullshit is what leads to things like JT allegedly assaulting men.  It really fucks with their head and is mentally abusive.

I think for many people coming to terms with sexuality that is not completely heterosexual is difficult and for people who came of age when Travolta and Cruise did it may not have had the best connotations.  Auditing is just another version of "pray away the gay," it will not cure cancer it will not fix that either.  

[Rlb8031]

6 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Leah did file a missing person's report.  The police "investigated" and said they talked to someone who told them that she was okay.  Case closed.  There was a whiff of thought that Co$ pressure was put high up in the police department (political clout).  I don't doubt it.

I'm reading Leah's book now and just finished the chapter on the Shelly missing person's report. She filed it with a friend who was in the LAPD expressly because the CO$ hire off-duty cops to provide security at their events as a way of keeping an "in" with the local police. She was afraid that DM would get to them. Her friend took the report, but it was turned over to another person to investigate. The report came back that they had "spoken to" representatives at the church who said Shelly was okay. When Leah followed up she was stonewalled. Her friend called in his capacity as the reporting officer and was told "the case is closed". 

One other interesting point that was made about missing Shelly is that Shelly had always said that once you get to a certain point in the SeaOrg you forfeit your right to leave. There is speculation that she believes the strongly and is voluntarily staying in exile as a result.

[ALittleShelfish]

7 hours ago, AZChristian said:

We were in San Diego a few months ago, looking for the Point Loma lighthouse.  Our GPS incorrectly directed us the guardhouse at the nearby Marine Corps base.  Maybe we could pull the old people's "my GPS said this is Denny's in Hemet" excuse at the Co$ guardhouse.

Nope . . . not taking THAT chance!!!

Ha! Do it!!  

I have a friend who lives very close to a Presidential "Undisclosed Location" in Virginia.  She says the guards there have one line to recite, regardless of what you say to them:  "Sir/Ma'am. You need to turn back around now. This is not your destination."   Unincorporated Hemet-like Location probably has similarly trained "guards." 

[Celia Rubenstein]

I don't care if Mike Rinder goes around apologizing night and day or if he never does.  Feeble proclamations about being sorry coming out of the mouth of someone who was a professional liar and manipulator for years the way he was are kind of meaningless to me.  If saying it makes him feel better, good.  If hearing it from him makes someone he wronged feel better, great.  But it doesn't effect what I think of him.

Don't get me wrong - I am glad Mike Rinder is out of Scientology and devoting himself to revealing what he saw and went through and knows.  That I appreciate.  It is the best way to bring down Scientology and also the most meaningful way he can atone for his sins, which are many.  

But I can't say that I am crushing on Mike Rinder, riding his love train or anything of the sort.  The man was in charge of dishing out some of the worst abuse the COS ever inflicted on people as the head of it's version of the KGB for so many years, and I confess it makes me a bit sour on him.  I can't help it.  He was monstrous.  And it's not like he had some kind of come to Jesus moment and realized what he was doing was wrong.  He did not suddenly develop compassion or have an epiphany or wake up with altruistic motivations one day. He was all fine and dandy with the way people were treated until he was on the receiving end of such treatment himself.  That's why he left. And I can't help but wonder ... if David Miscavige had for some reason opted to spare him from the hole (or even not hold him there for so long), would Mike Rinder still be happily "fair gaming" people who want nothing but to enjoy the freedom of speech and association he now enjoys?  Because I kind of think he might be.  

I realize Rinder was indoctrinated into this cult as a kid and spent decades under their mind control, living in isolation etc. etc.  I know all that.  And it's possible that I am just cold and hard and cynical and insensitive with no compassion.  But I am just not quite ready to pin a medal on his chest yet.  In my opinion, by participating in this show he's simply doing what he ought to be doing, which is making up for all the harm he did to so many people over the years.  That doesn't make him a hero in my book, just a decent man.  Finally.   

I realize my opinion is not going to be a very popular one, but that's how I feel.  

Edited January 21, 2017 by Celia Rubenstein

[ketose]

1 hour ago, CatMomma said:

Oh, I agree. And, not to go off on a tangent, but I'm kinda tired of the implication that John Travolta and Tom Cruise are homosexuals.  I think in all likely hood, they are bisexual or pansexual.  Not a big thing, It just bugs me because it feels like an erasure of a very real sexuality.  And this type of "curing homosexuality" bullshit is what leads to things like JT allegedly assaulting men.  It really fucks with their head and is mentally abusive.

I can't explain it, but I have a lot of sympathy for Travolta. Not so much for Cruise.  I just feel like Travolta has really been victimized by Scientology.  Just watching "Going Clear" and hearing Spanky Taylor's story makes me believe there is a part of him that understands how bad things are, but just can't bring himself to leave. He pretty much told her to get out.

Editing to add, I think the reason I have no sympathy for Cruise is because I just don't think he is a nice man, He is great at acting like a nice man.  In reality, I think he is self-absorbed, narcissistic, and truly believes his own hype.  I just don't get that vibe from Travolta. 

In his younger days, Cruise was a follower of the "treat women like dirt and they'll keep coming back" dating strategy, so he's not all that nice a guy.

[trow125]

Ex-Sea Org member and guest on Leah's show Chris Shelton has a Critical Merchandise Store where he sells humorous Scientology themed T-shirts (like "Xenu Is My Homeboy"). Maybe he should add a Where's Shelley? shirt!

[geekgirl921]

  On 1/19/2017 at 6:09 PM, Tiger said:

 

As a bi-bro, I think this shit, and I do mean shit, about 'auditing the gay out' is the most disgusting thing i've learned about $cientology.  

 

Oh, I agree. And, not to go off on a tangent, but I'm kinda tired of the implication that John Travolta and Tom Cruise are homosexuals.  I think in all likely hood, they are bisexual or pansexual.  Not a big thing, It just bugs me because it feels like an erasure of a very real sexuality.  And this type of "curing homosexuality" bullshit is what leads to things like JT allegedly assaulting men.  It really fucks with their head and is mentally abusive.

I can't explain it, but I have a lot of sympathy for Travolta. Not so much for Cruise.  I just feel like Travolta has really been victimized by Scientology.  Just watching "Going Clear" and hearing Spanky Taylor's story makes me believe there is a part of him that understands how bad things are, but just can't bring himself to leave. He pretty much told her to get out.

Editing to add, I think the reason I have no sympathy for Cruise is because I just don't think he is a nice man, He is great at acting like a nice man.  In reality, I think he is self-absorbed, narcissistic, and truly believes his own hype.  I just don't get that vibe from Travolta. 

Now that's interesting. I saw the Travolta and Spanky stuff differently. I saw it as him seeing what was happening to her and letting her twist in the wind even though she was supposedly his friend.

[savannah1985]

I've been to Int Base, right outside of Hemet, in San Jacinto.  My cousin lives up there.  We drive by the guardhouse front gate all the time.  We have even stopped and pretended we were having car trouble.  The place always looks deserted.  I've been by five or six times and have never seen anyone anywhere. And my cousin has gotten herself obsessed so she drives by there all the time and reports she never sees anyone.  The front gate is always closed.  It all looks well taken care of but you never see anyone doing anything.

Edited January 21, 2017 by savannah1985

[Meadow]

17 hours ago, CatMomma said:

Just watching "Going Clear" and hearing Spanky Taylor's story makes me believe there is a part of him (Travolta) that understands how bad things are, but just can't bring himself to leave. He pretty much told her to get out.

What I found particularly telling was that it was Travolta's employee who helped a pregnant Spanky and her baby escape.  Spanky called her and asked her to be in a car at a particular location the very next day and hung up before any questions could be asked.  The employee showed up and was shocked when Spanky handed her a baby, jumped in the car and said, "GO!".  She did and got them out there.  It's one of my favorite escape stories.  (Spanky's full-term baby ended up being only 3-4 pounds because she spent most of her pregnancy in the RPF not being fed.  So awful.)

[Meadow]

15 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I realize my opinion is not going to be a very popular one, but that's how I feel.  

As much as I've come to admire Mike Rinder, I can understand and respect where you're coming from.  You make very fair points.  I mean, we still prosecute Nazis for war crimes and are not moved by how much time has elapsed or what the circumstances were.  They were adults who did these things and there should be accountability.

I think what makes Rinder different to me is that he doesn't have to be making amends in this very public, very dangerous way.  He could be living quietly on a beach in Jamaica.  If he was, that might indicate that he simply grew tired of being abused himself and got out.  But the fact that he knowingly is taking on a group with the will and the resources to destroy him and his loved ones in the hopes of saving others from being abused is pretty impressive to me.

Plus, I think he must know that not everyone is going to consider him a hero.  He's going to be criticized and fairly so.  He's put himself out there for that criticism and here we are debating it.  I think that's reasonable, considering what he did.

[spiderpig]

6 hours ago, savannah1985 said:

I've been to Int Base, right outside of Hemet, in San Jacinto.  My cousin lives up there.  We drive by the guardhouse front gate all the time.  We have even stopped and pretended we were having car trouble.  The place always looks deserted.  I've been by five or six times and have never seen anyone anywhere. And my cousin has gotten herself obsessed so she drives by there all the time and reports she never sees anyone.  The front gate is always closed.  It all looks well taken care of but you never see anyone doing anything.

(cue Twilight Zone music...)

[zxy556575]

The only thing I have against Rindah is that he uses this Sears photography studio picture on his site. He's serious! He's pondering! He's looking mysteriously off to the side!

Edited January 21, 2017 by Lord Donia

[luvmylabs]

On 1/20/2017 at 4:23 AM, larapu2000 said:

I'd like to buy 100, please.

I'd also like t-shirts people can wear in California with her picture that say "Help Shelly escape!!!!"

Why not start a 'Free Shelly"  movement!

[ketose]

You can dislike Rinder, but if he deserves any punishment, he got it at the hands of Miscavige while he was in the Sea Org.

[savannah1985]

Int Base, NEAR Hemet, lol, is on both sides of the road you take to get to it.  It used to be that a person would have to go out the gate and cross the road to get to the other side, where LRH's mansion awaits his return, Kool cigarettes and all. The problem was that people were escaping that way.  Now there's a tunnel under the road so that a person never is off "church" property.  I'm driving up to see my cousin tomorrow and I'm sure we will be checking out the place again, because it drives us nuts that we never see anyone there.  My cousin wants to go right up to the guardhouse and see if anyone is in it. I'll let you know if anything happens.  Note my name. If you don't hear from me for a while I may be one of them, one of them, one of them.

[walnutqueen]

13 minutes ago, savannah1985 said:

Int Base, NEAR Hemet, lol, is on both sides of the road you take to get to it.  It used to be that a person would have to go out the gate and cross the road to get to the other side, where LRH's mansion awaits his return, Kool cigarettes and all. The problem was that people were escaping that way.  Now there's a tunnel under the road so that a person never is off "church" property.  I'm driving up to see my cousin tomorrow and I'm sure we will be checking out the place again, because it drives us nuts that we never see anyone there.  My cousin wants to go right up to the guardhouse and see if anyone is in it. I'll let you know if anything happens.  Note my name. If you don't hear from me for a while I may be one of them, one of them, one of them.

I live in Oceanside.  If you don't check back in, I'll launch a  Seal Team Six type rescue (minus the Team) and deprogram your ass.   ;-)

They don't need to man the guardhouse.  The roads and everything else are purportedly under surveillance at all times.  They probably have license plate readers and facial recognition software, too.

[spiderpig]

2 hours ago, savannah1985 said:

Int Base, NEAR Hemet, lol, is on both sides of the road you take to get to it.  It used to be that a person would have to go out the gate and cross the road to get to the other side, where LRH's mansion awaits his return, Kool cigarettes and all. The problem was that people were escaping that way.  Now there's a tunnel under the road so that a person never is off "church" property.  I'm driving up to see my cousin tomorrow and I'm sure we will be checking out the place again, because it drives us nuts that we never see anyone there.  My cousin wants to go right up to the guardhouse and see if anyone is in it. I'll let you know if anything happens.  Note my name. If you don't hear from me for a while I may be one of them, one of them, one of them.

Maybe we should have you chipped first - like my puppydog.

[WescottF1]

2 hours ago, savannah1985 said:

Int Base, NEAR Hemet, lol, is on both sides of the road you take to get to it.  It used to be that a person would have to go out the gate and cross the road to get to the other side, where LRH's mansion awaits his return, Kool cigarettes and all. The problem was that people were escaping that way.  Now there's a tunnel under the road so that a person never is off "church" property.  I'm driving up to see my cousin tomorrow and I'm sure we will be checking out the place again, because it drives us nuts that we never see anyone there.  My cousin wants to go right up to the guardhouse and see if anyone is in it. I'll let you know if anything happens.  Note my name. If you don't hear from me for a while I may be one of them, one of them, one of them.

Take and post pictures!

[Wings]

13 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

Maybe we should have you chipped first - like my puppydog.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha!