S03.E06: Episode 6

[DarkRaichu]

2 hours ago, grumpypanda said:

Juliette throwing herself at Noah is almost embarrassing at this point but she sure has terrible timing. I can't imagine anyone wanting to have sex right after a bad car accident. This wasn't a minor fender bender the car was totalled so what the fuck is she thinking? Plus the man is recovering from a stab wound to the neck, I don't understand why she finds him so irresistible. He looked so gross to me in this episode. 

I also don't understand why Noah 's stab wound wasn't stitched up. I'm not a medical professional but that thing looked like it needed stitches. 

She was bored and wanted a bad boy badly.  An ex-con with a stab wound who wrecks cars and ties her up was most likely her utmost fantasy.

Btw, what happened to the divorce paper that Noah signed last week?

Not sure why Vik stayed around with someone who insulted him like that?  I would think a surgeon like him could get a new girlfriend in 2 minutes flat

[islandgal140]

13 hours ago, shelley1005 said:

And I did find it rich that Helen was so bothered by her mom taking her cheating dad back....when we all know she would be back with Noah right now if he would have anything to do with her.  

As soon as I saw how bothered Helen was by her parents getting back together I just knew this series will likely end with her taking Noah's sorry ass back.

Helen was just making a mess all over town (and Jersey too).  I think Helen went over to Max's fab apt not just for deets about Noah but also for an ego boost. 

I must be the only one who likes and roots for Max. It probably wouldn't have worked out but I think at the time she needed/needs someone who loves her more than she loves him. Vik might be a great guy but he just has an air of smariness to him. I wonder if that is just because we are seeing him through Helen's eyes. 

I love the way Helen got told off by Nina. What I thought was interesting was that it seemed like she was attracted to Noah in the early years for the same reason that Noah was into Alison because of an inexplicable deep sadness about them. Neither of them realized how profound and deeply the loss affected the person they wanted though.  

13 hours ago, chick binewski said:

I think the person in the lake is Noah, but I'm basing this on a flashback ages ago which I thought featured Noah's dad yelling to Noah as Noah was running towards the lake.

It was definitely Noah as that was the boy pictured in the photos at the lake house. At the time I wondered why they just didn't use a pic of Dominic West in his youth but it looks like they wanted someone on-screen to play him. 

Prof Oh So Franch is looking for (in her own words) une aventure. She should be looking for some self respect. How do you say that in Franch?

[grommit2]

22 hours ago, scrb said:

Well maybe it's a thing in his home town.

The way that girl went up to Martin, asking him if he wanted to go to the party with her.  Maybe she see's a solution to her college tuition worries.

Helen no longer seems to be into it with Vic, now that he's sleeping upstairs and is so eager to please mom and dad.  George Constanza wanted to get the upper-hand in the relationship he had with a beautiful cellist.

So here are the ways Vic can get some hand in his relationship with Helen.

1.  Get rid of the cactus.

2.  The next time Martin says "fuck off" to him, give him the back of your hand across his mouth.  That will probably get her hot and bothered right away but don't do it just for the relationship but because it's Martin.

3.  Casually mention that he's meeting some old girlfriends or how much of a MILF the mother of one of his patients is.

4.  Badmouth her parents.  Repeatedly.

5.  Get the gag that Juliette wanted Noah to tie her up with and use it on Helen.

These suggestions are brilliant.  You should immediately quit your day job and join "The Affair" writing staff.  

[nara]

17 hours ago, Medicine Crow said:

I just watched last night's episode & the recording cut off as Noah was wading into the water after, what looked like his son.  Please fill me in on what happened.  Thanks in advance!!!

The hooded figure turned around and it was not Martin.  It was a younger version of Noah.  (There was some debate in the comments above about whether it was young Noah or young Gunther, but a look at the credits clarified things.)

[RedheadZombie]

20 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

I was hoping to see what Max's fiancée looked like, but they didn't let the audience see her picture when Helen looked at it.

Since it was Helen's POV, the fiancée would have looked exactly like Helen.  Part of her identity is being the unrequited love of Max's life.

19 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

I can agree with Helen about one thing: it's pretty pathetic that her mother so easily took her father back after the very callous way he tossed her aside for his former student.  He disrupted their lives over Ina and then was allowed to slide back in oh-so-easily, like nothing had ever happened.  That's disappointing. 

On the other hand, Helen is still carrying a big torch for Noah despite everything that's happened so she can't really talk.  It's a little hard to believe that two people could be married and avoid the topic of one person's parent(s) for so long.  Did Helen never think to ask, did Noah never feel comfortable enough to confide in her, or both?  Either way, that marriage was doomed to unravel at some point.  Too bad there were kids involved and that it took so long.

The writers must have realized that Cole and Helen were still likable characters prior to this season and decided to put a stop to it.  WTF, Helen?  Max is a grown man who should be able to control himself, but damn that was cold.  Minutes after he tells her that he's getting married and moving to Brooklyn, she seduces him and then proceeds to talk about Noah.  I hope Max told his fiance what happened and she dumped him.  Luisa, Danielle, Vik, the kids... all innocent victims of these fucked up and selfish adults.

I don't think Helen sees her marriage to Noah as similar to her parents.  They apparently always passively aggressively hated each other, and used Helen as their weapon to hurt the other.  We've been told by Helen and Noah that the majority of their marriage was happy and fulfilling.  We've been told that Noah had never cheated prior to Alison.  So Helen probably thinks of her marriage as successful for a long time, and falling apart quickly.  Which is different than her mother's long-suffering (but not quietly) mother.

[MaggieG]

Noah's wound is hella infected. Maybe that's what's causing his hallucinations?

Martin is awful. I would never tell my mom or my mom's boyfriend to fuck off. So disrespectful. Vic, get out while you still can.

I'm not the biggest fan of Max but I felt for him during the whole Helen debacle. I'm glad he told her to gtfo.

[RedheadZombie]

18 hours ago, shelley1005 said:

Hmm.  Not sure I am interesting in watching this show this season if it is just to watch Noah go full on banana.   

I am still skeptical that Martin would have dropped his angst and anger at his father so quickly.  I know, I know....moved the plot along.  Fine.  

Helen sleeping with Max?  Blergh.  And of course she only did it to get him to answer those questions in her noggin' about Noah and their courtship.  Max is a d-bag and all, but still Helen.  That's cold.  

And I did find it rich that Helen was so bothered by her mom taking her cheating dad back....when we all know she would be back with Noah right now if he would have anything to do with her.  

Speaking of people who wish Noah would have something do with them.....can't stand the french prof lady character, at all.  

Regarding Martin and Noah - I've been in this type of position, but not with a parent.  It's occurred with my BFF and my cousin who's like my child.  No matter how much antipathy or bad experiences have built up, you see that other person suffering or in pain and it goes away.  Since Martin has been the nastiest, it may be that he's suffered the worst from Noah not being in his daily life.   Martin believes that his father is an unrepentant killer, and his mother hasn't done much to change that.  Since Martin refused to spend any time with Noah, it was impossible to really deal with the issue.  Upon seeing his father's condition, he became concerned and almost tender with him.  He saw his father humbled and suffering.  And later at the dinner, though he didn't defend Noah, he didn't enjoy the bitter loser who was busting Noah's chops.  I actually believed it. 

17 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I think it's because Alison is constantly shown cheating, and otherwise sleeping with men she shouldn't - and how often she ends up having sex with a man the second there's any kind of closeness between them.

But all the mains have done the same.  Alison has had relationships with her husband and her ex-husband, plus a ONS with Oscar.  I can't tell you how many women I know who fall back into a sexual relationship with their exes.  And each time she's been with Cole since the divorce, it's been Cole who's initiated.  And since Cole was the married one, whereas Alison has been separated, Cole is the cheater in this situation.  And while Alison cheated on Cole after the trauma of losing their child, and a few years of struggling, Cole cheated on his wife with whom he's supposedly in a happy marriage.  I don't understand why there's a higher standard for Alison.  Helen was in a relationship with Max in the hopes that it would bother Noah, and for the ego boost of being adored.  There were no signs she got off with the guy, he was far too concerned with his own performance.  And Helen initiated a booty call to pull Max back in, and possibly sabotage his relationship with his fiancé.  But that doesn't mitigate Max's responsibility.  And Helen banged Vik, who she had no relationship with other than he was her kid's doctor, within a couple of minutes of conversation, and with her children upstairs.  So where are her boundaries?   Luisa was banging Scott the pig before she started sleeping with his brother.   That's an uncomfortable and sticky situation, maybe there should be boundaries between sleeping with brothers?  Some people think a partner's siblings are off limits after ending a relationship.  I think it's simply a gray area.

If you subtract the one time with Oscar, Alison has been with a man she's been with since she was a teen, and Noah who became her husband.  She's drawn back to Cole because of their history, and Gabriel.  She's now drawn back to Noah because he's in pain and she feels sorry for him.  As I said, each time she was back with Cole again, he was the initiator.  And though it's not clear who initiated the sex at the beginning of the affair, or after the hot tub, we know that Noah was pursuing Alison hard this last encounter.  From both of their POVs, Alison tried to keep her distance, and then tried to keep it strictly amicable.

I think the entire show is about gray areas, and the messiness of life, and the difficulty of relationships.  Both of Whitney's sexual partners we've seen on the show have been repulsive to me, and illegal for one.  But this is always blamed on Noah, rather than crediting that Whitney is aggressive with what she wants, thought she was a grown woman when she was clearly still very immature, and is sexually liberated as we saw her with a female sexual companion in the middle of a party.

And while I can be very judgmental toward cheaters IRL, I'm more forgiving of fictional characters.  And to be honest, while I've never cheated, pretty much everyone I know and even a great number in my family have histories of cheating, breaking up families, and sticky uncomfortable new relationships that form.  It's very common in life, and a lot of the people participating in these affairs are normal people.  They're not all reprehensible people who should be shunned and hated for eternity, and lacking in borderlines and morals.

[RedheadZombie]

20 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

Noah's wound is hella infected. Maybe that's what's causing his hallucinations?

Martin is awful. I would never tell my mom or my mom's boyfriend to fuck off. So disrespectful. Vic, get out while you still can.

I'm not the biggest fan of Max but I felt for him during the whole Helen debacle. I'm glad he told her to gtfo.

I agree on the infected wound.  They made the point of showing pus and yellow drainage on his bandage - he could be heading towards sepsis.  Combined with PTSD, dealing with memories of his mother's death, and the Vicodin issue, I have no problem with believing Noah's SL.  And while he's hallucinating and believes Gunther drove him off the road, there must be a small question in his mind because he didn't report it to the police.

[izabella]

Wasn't Noah having hallucinations even before this episode with the infected neck wound?   I can't remember exactly, but I thought he was "seeing" Gunther following him, and lingering on street corners to stalk him, even before he was stabbed in the neck.

[EyesGlazed]

And here's another thing that bugged me.  Noah talked to Martin about the importance of having conversations while people are still alive so you don't have to regret the lack of communication after they're gone.  Which is very true, and touching, and a good philosophy to have.  But Noah's way of implementing it is to yack at Martin about his (Noah's) own issues.  Earlier in the episode, when Martin was starting to confide in Noah about how he hated school, Noah couldn't be bothered to engage!   Instead of asking why Martin hates school, or asking whether something could be done to help him like school more, or following up AT ALL, Noah just farted around with the box of old mail and ignored what his son has to say.  It's supposed to work both ways Noah, you self-involved navel-gazer.

The only time I felt remotely sorry for Noah was when Steve the fat blowhard was being rude to him at dinner.  Steve is the biggest dick of the season so far.  Hey, if you dislike your high school classmate that much, maybe don't invite yourself to dinner with him?

[shelley1234]

8 minutes ago, EyesGlazed said:

And here's another thing that bugged me.  Noah talked to Martin about the importance of having conversations while people are still alive so you don't have to regret the lack of communication after they're gone.  Which is very true, and touching, and a good philosophy to have.  But Noah's way of implementing it is to yack at Martin about his (Noah's) own issues.  Earlier in the episode, when Martin was starting to confide in Noah about how he hated school, Noah couldn't be bothered to engage!   Instead of asking why Martin hates school, or asking whether something could be done to help him like school more, or following up AT ALL, Noah just farted around with the box of old mail and ignored what his son has to say.  It's supposed to work both ways Noah, you self-involved navel-gazer.

The only time I felt remotely sorry for Noah was when Steve the fat blowhard was being rude to him at dinner.  Steve is the biggest dick of the season so far.  Hey, if you dislike your high school classmate that much, maybe don't invite yourself to dinner with him?

That is exactly why Steve the biggest dick of the season DID invite himself.  See Steve always felt Noah was the big fish in the little pond and of course was resentful and jealous.  So now that Noah's life is in the shitter....he couldn't wait to see it in person and give him shit for it.  It was like Christmas for someone like Steve the biggest dick of the season.  

[Bebecat]

I was depressed to see the French woman is on for ten episodes, I think. Meaning Noah will have more to do with her. Which he does not need.

Martin does not lool like a 19-yr old kid, sorry, he looks about thirty.

i guess showing how messed up the kids are is to point to the marriage not being as rosy as both parents seem to think, at various times.

Helen is loathsome now. Her pathological need to be around Noah is humilating to watch. I thought (and hoped) he would throw her out of his hospital room, verbally anyway. Instead he tells her she can stay. Bad move, she will read too much into it.

She had better not tell Max's fiance they had sex. She almost made a face at the photo he had  and did not even make a meaningless, polite reply. What a witch.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Affair Learns You Can't Go Home Again

'This is supposed to be a happy occasion, and as usual, Noah Solloway is ruining it,' declares Bruce Butler, who could be referring to dinners, homecomings, and furtive snoggings with Max and still be accurate.

[MinDC76]

6 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

And while I can be very judgmental toward cheaters IRL, I'm more forgiving of fictional characters.  And to be honest, while I've never cheated, pretty much everyone I know and even a great number in my family have histories of cheating, breaking up families, and sticky uncomfortable new relationships that form.  It's very common in life, and a lot of the people participating in these affairs are normal people.  They're not all reprehensible people who should be shunned and hated for eternity, and lacking in borderlines and morals.

Sorry RedheadZombie, but I have to disagree with you on this.  Just because affairs are said to be common, I don't believe that makes the people carrying on affairs "normal".  I think that to some degree every character on this show is shown to be lacking in morals and boundaries, as those are exactly the type of people that cheat IRL.  I see Allison and Noah in a much harsher light, because their cheating led to the break-up of a family.  Children were casualties of their ridiculously selfish actions.

[Blakeston]

17 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

But all the mains have done the same.  Alison has had relationships with her husband and her ex-husband, plus a ONS with Oscar.  I can't tell you how many women I know who fall back into a sexual relationship with their exes. 

It's not that Alison is the only one who's cheated, it's that she's cheated so many times. She and Noah get more criticism here about their sexual decisions than Helen or Cole because their "can't resist inappropriate sex" moments happen over and over and over again. 

[LuciaMia]

Quote

I think we're going to see Helen reveal eventually that she was indeed driving

I keep waiting for Helen to have her 'tell-tale heart' moment. One more person talks about Noah being behind the wheel that night and she finally snaps and starts yelling "No, it was  me, ME!"

Helen was clearly uncomfortable with her parents being back together, and especially when they went in for that deep soul kiss at the restaurant table. I didn't blame her!

[racked]

So, no surprise I guess that the show had to have both Cole and Helen cheat on their respective others this season. See? Everyone cheats, everyone is awful, not just Noah and Allison! Whatever Show. So Helen kind of sucks now. 

Every time Noah's sister mentions the "thing" between Noah and his dad that happened to cause a rift between them, I thought she was talking about their dad abandoning them and leaving Noah to care for their sick mother. Is that not enough to cause a rift and make a father want to apologize? But apparently not, since Noah is repressing some deep dark secret. I think Brenden Frasier died as a teenager and doesn't exist in present day but eh, I don't know that I care that much about what makes Noah tick anymore. 

[Snewtsie]

4 minutes ago, racked said:

 I think Brenden Frasier died as a teenager and doesn't exist in present day but eh, I don't know that I care that much about what makes Noah tick anymore. 

I've also started believing that Gunther is a figment of Noah's imagination.  Interesting thought that he may have died as a teenager.  Whatever it is, why wouldn't Noah just google him and see what he could learn?  It's not a unique name so could take a few tries, but Noah can probably find out something useful.

And why didn't the police follow up when Noah called them to say he thought it was Gunther who may have stabbed him?  And why hasn't Noah checked in again with his parole officer?  And after 4 years since season 2 ended, is season 3 going to take place in only one week's time? - that's what it seems, since I think ep 1 was only 5 days prior to ep 6.

[Muffyn]

The biggest problem I am having is I just don't care what makes Noah tick.  What is his motivation?  Why did he wait 20 years then blow up his marriage?  Why is he having hallucinatory experiences?  I just can't seem to care. 

I find there is something more interesting in the intricate details that destroy a relationship rather than these huge events.  Many relationships fail.  Many people cheat.  They didn't all lose a child or mercy kill their mother.  I would rather see real circumstances that led to the destruction of both marriages.  (The loss of a child feels more organic, so I can see that angle.   Noah's story is getting more and more ridiculous and therefore less compelling.)

[lazylou]

Please help me.  Without my reading thru the comments from the whole season, if the prison guard is imaginary, at least as a stalker, who slashed Noah's throat?  Noah himself?  really?

[Bebecat]

I don't think the guard is unreal. At least it never occurred to me. Why do some think Gunther died?

 

Maybe I missed something, this show does not always keep me glued to it. Helen and Noah piss me off more than anyone, though I was disgusted that Cole slept with Alison. Louisa did not deserve that. There is no excuse, they already had their one-night stand years back when the baby was conceived. It is just as much cheating with an ex, if not more in a way. Alison is at least separated, almost divorced, but still, it is all very sleazy.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Bebecat

[shelley1234]

53 minutes ago, Bebecat said:

I don't think the guard is unreal. At least it never occurred to me. Why do some think Gunther died?

 

 

After "Gunther" was chasing Noah in his big ol' truck....Noah crashes and looks into his rearview mirror there is no truck behind him.  When Noah gets out to assess the damage the front is all jacked up, but the back of the car is not damaged at all even though "Gunther" slammed into it numerous times.  

Edited January 5, 2017 by shelley1005

[scrb]

Didn't Helen say something to Gunther during one of the prison visits?

But was that in her POV or Noah's?

As for Noah being this tortured now over his past, what triggered it?  Being in jail?  His father dying and leaving him the house?

Presumably he had those memories and feelings all throughout his life.  So he develops a profession, gets married, raises children, becomes a successful novelist and now, in his mid or late 40s, he's anguished about mommy and daddy?

He was suppressing those memories for decades?  They certainly weren't manifest when he was pawing at Alison and then all the young women, including almost his own daughter.

I think the writers had to fashion a new narrative and this is kind of a reboot of the show, since the first narrative about the dissolution of an upper middle-class family is pretty much done.

Maybe if they wanted to continue the series, they could have done it as an anthology and bring in a new cast of characters, put them in a new locale and craft a new tale about Americans cheating.  Maybe even cast people of color.

But maybe they worry about losing the viewers who've stayed through the first two seasons, who might be attached to these characters or cast members.  They're not exactly big stars so what did they have to lose?  Plus Treem came from In Treatment, which changed a lot of characters and kind of rebooted between seasons.

Edited January 5, 2017 by scrb

[shelley1234]

People in traumatic situations aka jail can have psychotic breaks....so I think that is what they are saying happened with Noah.  Now do I think this kind of story is being done well....at all....I'd have to say no.  However, it isn't something that doesn't happen.  Someone can show zero symptoms and then the break happens and then it's like a whole new world.  

[vixenbynight]

7 hours ago, scrb said:

Didn't Helen say something to Gunther during one of the prison visits?

But was that in her POV or Noah's?

As for Noah being this tortured now over his past, what triggered it?  Being in jail? His father dying and leaving him the house?

Presumably he had those memories and feelings all throughout his life.  So he develops a profession, gets married, raises children, becomes a successful novelist and now, in his mid or late 40s, he's anguished about mommy and daddy?

He was suppressing those memories for decades? They certainly weren't manifest when he was pawing at Alison and then all the young women, including almost his own daughter.

I think the writers had to fashion a new narrative and this is kind of a reboot of the show, since the first narrative about the dissolution of an upper middle-class family is pretty much done.

Maybe if they wanted to continue the series, they could have done it as an anthology and bring in a new cast of characters, put them in a new locale and craft a new tale about Americans cheating.  Maybe even cast people of color.

But maybe they worry about losing the viewers who've stayed through the first two seasons, who might be attached to these characters or cast members. They're not exactly big stars so what did they have to lose?  Plus Treem came from In Treatment, which changed a lot of characters and kind of rebooted between seasons.

I think that it's a combination of both: being in jail and the death of his father that has triggered Noah's past memories of his youth spent in a figurative jail, while dealing with his mother's illness and slow decline into death. I think that all of this stuff had to be revealed now, in order to show exactly why Noah, Allison, Cole and Helen have never been "right" for one another in their previous marriages.

[Snewtsie]

16 hours ago, scrb said:

Didn't Helen say something to Gunther during one of the prison visits?

But was that in her POV or Noah's?

In Helen's POV, she brought a handmade card to Noah (made by daughter Stacy) during her prison visit.  Gunther took it from Noah for a moment to make sure it was nothing prohibited, and then handed it back to Noah.  As far as I recall, that was the only interaction shown between Gunther and anyone other than Noah. 

I personally do not think Gunther is dead.  I think he was a real guard in the prison, and that all of Noah's sightings of him outside of the prison have been hallucinations.  But I do think the theory of him being dead is an interesting one, and I am curious what the truth will be when the show reveals it.

[Duke2801]

On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 9:54 PM, Medicine Crow said:

I just watched last night's episode & the recording cut off as Noah was wading into the water after, what looked like his son.  Please fill me in on what happened.  Thanks in advance!!!

I interpreted that scene as Noah having a good old fashioned mental breakdown! 

[RabbiBeth]

This season stinks.  I'm so disappointed.  It used to be such a good show and it's lost all steam.  It feels so unfocused and so preposterous as times. 

[wovenloaf]

Yeah they are really overdoing this mess with Noah's hallucinations. It started as an element of the plot that could have been vaguely interesting, but now it feels like every episode just revolves around his latest delusion(s). Even when other things happen it always eventually comes around to Noah hallucinating again. And I'm having a hard time caring that much...

 

Mr. Wovenloaf refuses to refer to this show as anything other than The McNulty Show, and wants to know when he's just gonna calm down and enjoy some beers with Bunk by the train tracks... And I think I feel the same way at this point. I wish everything on this show didn't have to be so overwrought all the time!

Edited January 6, 2017 by wovenloaf

[shelley1234]

My issue with this season is that there isn't much crossover in the storylines....so it seems like I am watching two shows.  There is the Noah and Helen show and there is the Alison and Cole show....and every once in a while Noah makes a guest appearance in the Alison show or vice versa.  

[NutMeg]

Quote

I just watched last night's episode & the recording cut off as Noah was wading into the water after, what looked like his son.  Please fill me in on what happened.  Thanks in advance!!!

I missed a part too, so I went looking for a recap, and found this:

http://ew.com/recap/the-affair-season-3-episode-6/2/

Hope that helps :)

[ruby24]

This is a bad season and I'm getting really really bored. I may not even finish. Now that the affair between Alison and Noah is really over, I guess I just don't care what happens to everyone else. I don't care if Noah and Helen get back together. Same for Alison and Cole. 

I don't care at all about the french professor. I think I'm done.

[Bebecat]

Yeah, I got Showtime just for this show...ready to cancel. I can't imagine what could happen in the remaining episodes that would make me glad to continue to spend the extra money. Unless they all climbed onto a boat and it sank, kids included.

[scrb]

Well Homeland is coming back on the 15th.

Lot to snark over there.

Snarking is a good substitute for being emotionally bowled over by drama.

[Mackey]

I can't think of an episode of this show in all these years that highlighted one character engaging in so many separate bad acts, as this past episode, with Helen. It's like the actress reread her contract and noticed that she'd not gotten the requisite number of acting opportunities to be rude, thoughtless, cruel, and dishonest, as she was promised. 

[Chas411]

Helen was awful in this episode. I love her but I hated her In this episode. Her obsession with Noah brings out the absolute worst in her. Her treatment of Vik is appalling. It's like the writers felt she was too sympathetic in previous seasons and decided to rework her.

[Guest]

On 1/1/2017 at 11:51 PM, Miss Patterson said:

Is it just me, or does this show now totally suck? 

This show has always sucked but this season has reached the basement level beneath the sea floor of awfulness. 

I appreciate Noah's full recovery from his festering self-inflicted stab wound after remedying the raging infection by simply saturating it with hydrogen peroxide then passing out on the bathroom floor. 

[KateHearts]

On 1/4/2017 at 10:58 PM, scrb said:

He was suppressing those memories for decades?  They certainly weren't manifest when he was pawing at Alison and then all the young women, including almost his own daughter.

 

I must have missed something- I don't recall a scene like this in past episodes. I do remember Noah being at a coked-out crazy party with a pool and while engaging in some rather un-fatherly behavior, seeing Whitney across the pool from him. Is that what you're referring to?

This episode was a little more interesting than others- if not for anything but being constantly embarrassed during the first half for Helen's behavior. She's distracted when the school principal tells her that her son is about to fail; she seeks out her sister in law who berates her, she heads to Max's (prrsumably after a couple of years since she dumped him) for guilty sex and then insults him, then she totally abuses and shits on her current boyfriend, who's a total doormat anyway and apparently has taken on the responsibility of her children while she's out getting laid by someone else. 

The second half was less interesting.  The entire dinner table conversation with the high school buddies was totally unbelievable- but then I had to remind myself that it was from Noah's perspective (which is slightly skewed, to say the least). 

That's what the show seems to be missing this season- the dichotomy between two characters' perspectives of the same series of events. Which was what made the show unique in the beginning.  They've gone way off track from that format.

[Milburn Stone]

On 1/2/2017 at 4:09 AM, scrb said:

In the first season, she chose Noah because she took it for granted that he was so devoted to her.  And the money kept him as her puppet through their marriage until that fateful day at the Lobster Roll.

But now, Nina says Noah was using her to get out of smalltownsville, taking advantage of Helen wanting to rescue a wounded boy getting over a huge loss in his life -- this backstory seems bolted on, like something they added much later.

At first, the unhinged nature of Nina's diatribe--why would she be so nasty to Helen, even if she believed all that?--didn't make sense to me. Nor did the unhinged nature in the Noah-half of the big-boned high-school chum, who seemed off-the-charts resentful. But now I think I understand why both were unhinged. The show from the beginning has told us that people live in their own realities. At first that was about two characters. Then it became about four characters. But logically, if Noah, Alison, Helen and Cole are all living in their own realities, then every other character is living in his or her own reality, whether we're following that reality as a separate storyline or not. Nina is not "right" about why Noah married Helen--but she is right in her own mind; it is her reality. Big-boned high school chum is not "right" about young Noah having acted all high and mighty and above them all--but he is right in his own mind; that is his reality. This season we are being exposed to the truth about the world that no one's reality matches up with anyone else's. Noah's, Alison's, Helen's, Cole's, Luisa's, Nina's, Big-Boned Chum's, Max's, Martin's, Oscar's, Whitney's--nobody's. Every human carries grievances that blind him or her to the reality of everyone else's.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Milburn Stone

[NutMeg]

1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

At first, the unhinged nature of Nina's diatribe--why would she be so nasty to Helen, even if she believed all that?--didn't make sense to me. As did the unhinged nature in the Noah-half of the big-boned high-school chum, who seemed off-the-charts resentful. But now I think I understand why both were unhinged. The show from the beginning has told us that people live in their own realities. At first that was about two characters. Then it became about four characters. But logically, if Noah, Alison, Helen and Cole are all living in their own realities, then every other character is living in his or her own reality, whether we're following that reality as a separate storyline or not. Nina is not "right" about why Noah married Helen--but she is right in her own mind; it is her reality. Big-boned high school chum is not "right" about young Noah having acted all high and mighty and above them all--but he is right in his own mind; that is his reality. This season we are being exposed to the truth about the world that no one's reality matches up with anyone else's. Noah's, Alison's, Helen's, Cole's, Luisa's, Nina's, Big-Boned Chum's, Max's, Martin's, Oscar's, Whitney's--nobody's. Every human carries grievances that blind him or her to the reality of everyone else's.

Very nice! I really like your interpretation.

[lazylou]

On 1/7/2017 at 6:56 PM, Giant Misfit said:

This show has always sucked but this season has reached the basement level beneath the sea floor of awfulness. 

I appreciate Noah's full recovery from his festering self-inflicted stab wound after remedying the raging infection by simply saturating it with hydrogen peroxide then passing out on the bathroom floor. 

Thanks..Someone finally answered my earlier question.  You think the stab wound was self inflicted?  All of the sightings of Gunther seem as though they are hallucinations, but if Noah actually slashed his own throat in the throes of his delusion, this show really has gone a step too far for me.  The wound made me think that what had seemed delusional...the sightings of Gunther at the funeral, around town, etc...were real.  Then we return to what seem to be sightings too far-fetched to be actual and the conclusion Noah needs to be institutionalized for his own safety.  

Milburn Stone's analysis above makes perfect sense to me, and certainly Noah's now being subject to paranoid delusions based on his prison experiences and his prison-acquired dependence on oxycontin contribute to that analysis.  Only now Noah's separate reality is extreme and literally self-destructive.  

[Sage47]

I think that the prison guard is real (Brendan is doing a really great job of being terrifying) but if some of your theories are right and Noah may have imagined/hallucinated him-I recalled something. 

John Gunther made some kind of comment about being at the same swim meet together when they were young and that while Noah was winning, Brendan was "in the back, drowning". Something like that. I need to watch again. So perhaps he DID die young? I think it is more interesting if he is a real, present-day character but we will see. 

I have always been repelled by Vik and can't believe Helen went on to have a serious relationship with him.

First, she meets him in s bar and he's drinking whiskey while admitting he's on call. WOW. Then the way he talked to his patient on the phone. Then when Helen was trying to get some emotional support from him saying sometimes she hated being a mother, he interrupted her to chuckle that he had just gotten a new Tinder message. She was totally put off at the time but then...ended up in a serious relationship with him?? Okay then. 

We get to this season and he goes over to FutKat's (lol) and proceeds to buy the most graphic piece of his artwork with his girlfriend's 18 year old daughter looking on. The dude is nasty. 

I loved Jennifer Esposito's scene telling off Helen. Excellent. 

I like something about every character-yes, even Noah, Alison and Oscar. Except for Luisa. I have never understood what Cole sees in her. She is pretty, yes, but always seems angry and so serious, even when they first met. No sense of fun. She also fucked Scotty. And yet Cole then wanted her?  Suspending disbelief...

[truthaboutluv]

I had to catch up on last week's episode and this one. Initially I missed this one and planned to watch the day after but every time I tried to press play, I just couldn't because that's how little interest I have in Noah. However, having said that, I actually really enjoyed the episode. And for the record, I'm fairly positive the kid in the water was young Noah. It's clear this season is placing a lot of emphasis on just how damaged and fucked up Noah is, which in a way further explains him and Alison and their connecting right when they did because Alison was still dealing with the trauma of losing her son and was pretty fucked up herself. 

Quote

It's so interesting to me that Alison's and Noah's POVs are never to be believed, manipulative, and playing the victim.  Whereas Helen's and Poor Old Cole's are "brave" to show negativity, or excused away by the affair.  We've known since the beginning that Alison has been suffering a mental illness, and now we see that Noah's entire adult life has been plagued by traumas he's experienced.  Yet (at least here) viewer opinion has not changed.  It speaks to the bigger picture, IMO, of the continued misunderstanding and lack of acceptance of mental illness.  Alison experiences isolation, paranoia, and hallucinations, and has the good sense to hand over her daughter to her father and seek psychological help.  Yet Cole and Luisa call her evil for dropping her off at night!  Well, what the fuck, Cole, apparently you didn't even know your daughter was ill.  And it's perfectly fine that neither Cole nor Luisa were checking in with the mother of Cole's child - the child that Cole deserved to have!  And I don't believe it's legal that they had Alison sign over custody while she was in a psychiatric hospital.  If a psychiatrist finds her stable and decisional, then she should be able to get her rights back. 

Oh we're back to that narrative - posters are so mean to Noah and Alison while excusing Helen and "Poor Old" Cole (I like how he's never just Cole)? *Sigh* It may just be me but I'm pretty sure I have seen plenty of criticisms of Cole's cheating on Luisa with Alison this season and I read both pages about this episode and saw plenty of comments about Helen being selfish and awful to Max for what she did. Why is it so bothersome that for the first few seasons of the show people hated the leads for their actions? Especially when we didn't yet have Cole cheating on Luisa with Alison and Helen self destructing. To reach back to comments people made based on what was happening on the show at the time is a little ridiculous in my opinion. 

And with regard to the bolded,  I am unaware of this fact that Alison was clearly suffering from mental illness from the beginning. Yes, we knew she was a cutter and she was deeply traumatized and in grief over her son's death. But then those who liked her and Noah swore that that relationship made her so happy and he got and understood her so much and not in fact, that he was another example of her self destructing. Never mind that Noah's POV always showed a completely different Alison than she showed in her own memories. 

And why should viewer opinion change just because we're now learning more about Noah's traumatic life? If I remember correctly, even in Season 1 many people acknowledged how horrible Helen's parents were, some disliked Helen and found her a snob and domineering to Noah. But just because people experience trauma doesn't absolve them completely from their actions and automatically mean they're not still narcissistic or selfish. Yes, Alison and Noah have both been through awful and traumatic things (and again let's always ignore that "Poor Old" Cole also lost a child because that doesn't get talked about as much. Just like it's been completely skimmed over that Alison denied him his child for two years for whatever reason...) but what, that means none of their selfish actions should be considered selfish anymore just because we now understand more of their trauma?

And again, I haven't seen where viewers here are hating on Noah this season. Most of the reaction are people being bored by him or the season but most comments I've read acknowledge how horrible the story of his mother is and are genuinely interested in what is going on with him mentally. Sorry that posters aren't suddenly deciding that we were wrong all along about the great love story and actions of Noah and Alison's because Cole too this season is an asshole for cheating on Luisa and Helen is self destructing bitch to both Vic and Max. Never mind that Alison in her POV stated flatly that what she and Noah had wasn't love, that it was self destructive and selfish.

Quote

Yet Cole and Luisa call her evil for dropping her off at night! 

That never happened. Cole specifically expressed anger at Alison for disappearing for SIX months without a phone call, a text, etc. No one called Alison evil for dropping off Joanie in the middle of the night. In fact the issue started because she was expected to pick her up a few days later and just didn't show up. Which is when they tracked her down to the institution. As for her not being of sound mind to legally give up her rights, considering it was stated that this was done at the Institution, if Alison was completely mentally unable to make that decision, wouldn't her doctors at the Institution know that? Apparently she initiated the action.

And so far, Cole has made it clear that he wants Alison to have joint custody of Joanie again but he's simply leaving it up to the Court to decide when that will be. People can hate Luisa all they want for "acting like she has a right to have a say after playing mommy for all of six months" but the fact is, no one is punishing Alison or calling her evil. And that is exactly the kind of lack of self awareness she had that yes, still made me judge her. It doesn't matter that she left her child with her father (and let's ignore that this was the father poor Joanie probably was just getting used to after having Noah play daddy for the first two years of her life). The point is she disappeared for six months with no communication and left it for Cole and Luisa to explain to Joanie every time she asked for her mommy, what was going on. 

She admittedly had a complete mental breakdown and apparently she should just be handed custody of her daughter again like everything's fine? And seriously, judging Cole because he didn't know Joanie was sick? Cole and Alison had joint custody so chances are Joanie was sick while with Alison during Alison's custody time. Sorry that Cole wasn't there every second interrupting Alison's custody time with Joanie to know that she had a fever. 

In my opinion, none of these characters are perfect and they are all flawed and most have acknowledged that. But the fact is, the first season of this show was really Alison and Noah's story. Helen and Cole were peripheral characters in their stories and nothing more so yes, most of the judgement was made towards Noah and Alison. But again, even then Cole who got very little screen time was judged by some as mean and abusive and Helen was a snob and a bitch and domineering and awful to Noah.  So this notion that Alison and Noah keep getting unfairly judged by viewers while Helen and Cole constantly get passes is simply not true in my opinion.

Edited January 15, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[millennium]

Dr. House called.  He wants his Vicodin hallucinations back.