S04.E15: All His Angels

[magdalene]

5 hours ago, green said:

 and Ragnar's own resemblance to Odin at the end with just the one blue eye looking out of the marred face.

Oh, how awesome.  By the time Ragnar fell into the pit I was cringing so much I missed this detail.

[Haleth]

I couldn't watch The Tudors because I felt that JRM was so miscast as Henry. I can see him much better as the figure he is expected to play on Vikings.

Unpopular opinion, I don't blame Aelle one bit. We all love Ragnar and his family, but from the English point of view they are murderers, rapists, and thieves who have been harassing Northumbria for 30 years. From their point of view they were finally bringing a demon to justice and his reign of terror to an end.  Except they didn't count on the son being worse than the father.

Bravo, Travis! You were a delight to behold these years.  Thank you for such a consistently outstanding performance. The rest of the cast has big shoes to fill. Skol, Ragnar!

[wlk68]

6 hours ago, FlowerofCarnage said:

  Hide contents

He will be on season 5 and rumor has that he will play the adult Alfred.

Ooh, interesting. I loved him in The Tudors. 

[nodorothyparker]

I don't really blame Aelle either as odious as I might find him.  From his standpoint as king, he was enacting justice as it was understood at the time for all of his subjects who had been raped or murdered, for all the treasures that had been plundered from their churches and monasteries.   Through all the actions of the soldiers this episode did a great job of showing just how much fear Ragnar inspired, even beaten and locked in a cage and in chains.  As much as I love this show, I've often thought it pulls a really neat trick in making us sympathize and root for people who have traditionally been portrayed not without reason mostly as villains in the history of Western Europe.  Right now we're all rooting hard for Ivar and the rest of the sons to come get their vengeance on Aelle and Ecbert too for killing Ragnar when the reality is that countless innocents who had nothing to do with it are going to suffer and die because of the events that were set in motion this episode.

Edited December 30, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[Ohwell]

2 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I don't really blame Aelle either as odious as I might find him.

Same here.  I mean, it's not like Ragnar didn't have it coming, much as I liked him.  The problem I have with him and his people (and anyone, for that matter) is the torture and killing of others in the name of God.  As if God has anything to do with it.  I could understand it if they just said they did it for revenge, and left it at that.  

[JennyMominFL]

I don't really like anyone in Ragnar's family , or Ragnar,lol. I don't want him avenged. He earned what he got according to the  rules of the age.  But the show is interesting and I'm studying Viking Archaeology

[magdalene]

24 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Same here.  I mean, it's not like Ragnar didn't have it coming, much as I liked him.  The problem I have with him and his people (and anyone, for that matter) is the torture and killing of others in the name of God.  As if God has anything to do with it.  I could understand it if they just said they did it for revenge, and left it at that.  

Nods.  I totally understand why they would want to execute Ragnar, but the way they did it..... Of course the Vikings have some really brutal practices themselves, the human sacrifices we saw, the blood eagle thing, etc. I am sure once Ivar really starts in with the torturing of Christians and the killing of innocents I won't be rah, rah about him.

But I do loathe Aelle, the actor does an excellent job making me vividly dislike him. Well done, Aelle actor!

The thing is that Ragnar has been our protagonist, but not our hero - there is a difference.  From the first season watching this show I have been compelled by Ragnar and fascinated by him. But I certainly haven't liked and condoned a lot of what he has done. There is nothing heroic about robbing monasteries and murdering and kidnapping a bunch of defenseless monks for example.

[theschnauzers]

22 hours ago, Triskan said:

Damn, the actor who plays Ubbe looks a lot like younger Ragnar ! 

He also picked up on Ragnar's mannerisms which we saw in the previous episode.

[jackjill89]

7 hours ago, LilWharveyGal said:

I'm no snake expert - in fact I had to look away from their scenes last night - but I imagine several of those species wouldn't do too well in the English climate.  It took me out of the scene just a bit.

I don't mean to keep harping on the snakes, but it bugs me that Aelle has not one, but two snake pits filled will different species of snakes. I get they could have brought them from somewhere else, but how to they keep them and care for them? There were at least 100 in that pit. It took me out of the story as well. The pit in the forest would be subject to the elements. Can't imagine anyone going down there to pull them out and put them in a better climate. So, do they just collect new snakes? They really could have just dropped him in a pit with a few adders and been done with it -- the fall would have probably done him in very well and then a few venomous bites for good measure. 

Agree about Aelle and him having every right to be ticked at the Vikings and wanting revenge, but I think he's icky and instead of just going out for revenge, he did it in the name of God, which really bugs the crap out of me. I don't like the torture aspect of any revenge. Couldn't watch the whole blood eagle thing. Just kill them and get it over with. I don't like seeing people get pleasure at other's discomfort.

[BitterApple]

11 minutes ago, jackjill89 said:

I don't mean to keep harping on the snakes, but it bugs me that Aelle has not one, but two snake pits filled will different species of snakes. I get they could have brought them from somewhere else, but how to they keep them and care for them? There were at least 100 in that pit. It took me out of the story as well. The pit in the forest would be subject to the elements. Can't imagine anyone going down there to pull them out and put them in a better climate. So, do they just collect new snakes? They really could have just dropped him in a pit with a few adders and been done with it -- the fall would have probably done him in very well and then a few venomous bites for good measure. 

 

Maybe King Aelle had one hell of a herpetologist on staff? I think it's one of those things where the snake pit death may have been urban legend and played up in the sagas for the ick factor. The other version of Ragnar's death, the hanging, seems more likely. History's been written and re-written so many times it's hard to know what's true and what isn't. 

[Cigale]

What I will miss the most are the conversations between Ecbert and Ragnar.  Such a beautiful dance they danced ...    In that gray area between their faith and the absence of it.  

[MrsR]

Ernest Bornine as Ragnar in the 50's film The Vikings, got thrown in a pit with wolves.  Actually he jumped in when it became clear he was going in. 

[LittleIggy]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

I couldn't watch The Tudors because I felt that JRM was so miscast as Henry. I can see him much better as the figure he is expected to play on Vikings.

 

Me, too! I adore JRM, but he was so miscast as the tall, ginger Henry that I couldn't watch it either.

10 hours ago, Evagirl said:

I've been hearing the name "Jonathan Rhys Meyers" but don't have a clue as to who he is.  What character does he play?

Watch the movie "Velvet Goldmine." ::sigh::

[rozen]

Man, Ragnar and Lagertha were truly made for each other. They both have superhuman patience when it comes to exacting revenge. Lagertha did truly care for Kalf, but the score said she had to kill him, so she did. Ecbert is the only man besides Aethelstan who's come close to understanding Ragnar, but the score says he's got to die, so Ragnar has put the wheels in motion. The best part is that both of them straight up tell their opponents the hammer is coming ("I will kill you" vs "A larger and greater strategy") and their frenemies just don't listen. Aelle is a dumber than a horse turd, but at least he immediately understood when Ragnar made the boar statement (nice switch around to make it come from Ragnar and become a menacing warning instead of a victorious gloat). Aelle's actor did great work when he put the hot poker in and Ragnar stared him down, you could see he seriously questioned if Ragnar was even human or just an avatar of violence. Ragnar really wanted to believe in the self-determination theory. At least the Seer gave him some (false, imo) consolation that he may have been wrong. I totally forgot part of Ragnar's predicted death was a blind man seeing him. That had to sting. 

Yes, Ragnar deserved ever bit of that. But, yes, it was pathetic as an army of terrified men vented their frustration on the broken memory of their greatest enemy. It would be one thing if it was a ragtag army of peasant folk enacting their revenge, they were weak and defenseless when the Vikings made their lives hell, but it wasn't. I swear, if he had remained manacled but simply had a spear in his hand half of them would have run away rather than face him. Ragnar looked completely despondent right before the pit drop, until he saw Ecbert and then he rallied for his man! True love. Also, how the hell did Ecbert walk that far and *not* get robbed or murdered outright? 

Sorry, totes don't believe Ivar will get one over on Lagertha. If anyone understands being consistently underestimated, it's Lagertha. She's been playing chess for decades and he's just moved up from playing checkers. Whens she's old and tired, Lagertha may let him sneak up on him, but not before. Even then, he'll have to go through Bjorn and good luck with that. 

Love the continuity that Ivar was still seasick as hell when he tumbled off that boat. He's going to fight all of England, but first, he must defeat the ocean!

TF better get that damn Emmy. Him, and The Americans, this is their last shot too, get it together, academy!

I mean, the scene where Aelle hesitantly approaches his cage, talking shit about revenge, and TF just rolls his eyes over to look at him like "oh here we go with this asshole" was academy award-level acting.

Edited December 31, 2016 by rozen

[TaurusRose]

40 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Me, too! I adore JRM, but he was so miscast as the tall, ginger Henry that I couldn't watch it either.

Watch the movie "Velvet Goldmine." ::sigh::

I'm not one to get too worked up over casting choices if the actor owns the role and JRM did as Henry VIII in The Tudors.  Loved him.  Ditto for the snakes.  The snake pit was icky times 10 and I don't think any body cared about them one way or another after they had served their purpose.  Aelle probably had a standing order for snakes from various ports of call like other people had for more practical items. 

[Ravenya003]

I really shouldn't have watched that so soon after Rogue One and news of Carrie Fisher's death. That said, it's a fitting end for 2016: the year that was hellbent on destroying us all.

There's not much to say that hasn't already been said, so I've only got some brief thoughts...

I can't wait to see Ecbert's face when he realises that Ragnar has double-crossed him one last time.

Loved all the blind man/one-eyed man imagery. Not sure of the meaning behind one-eyed Odin on the boat though: was it literal, or a metaphor for the impending arrival of Ragnar's sons in England?

The flashbacks were beautiful. It's only natural that Lagertha, Athelstan and Bjorn would take precedence, but I appreciated that Floki, Rollo and even Aslaug were featured as well. 

I'm a little surprised that there was no spiritual element to Ragnar's death (the last time he nearly died, didn't he see a vision of Athelstan? And when Siggy drowned she got to see her daughter waiting for her). Still, I understand and commend Hirst's decision to keep it as straightforward as possible.

Something else that surprised me: Ragnar didn't leave Ivar with instructions NOT to harm Alfred and Judith. Rain down hell on everyone else, sure - but I would have thought he'd try to secure their safety for Athelstan's sake.

I loved the handing over of the crucifix, and Ragnar confessing that Athelstan chose Ecbert's God in the end.  

Farewell Ragnar - it's been quite a ride. 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Ravenya003

[Kalliste]

On 12/29/2016 at 5:14 PM, Triskan said:

Damn, the actor who plays Ubbe looks a lot like younger Ragnar ! 

I thought they looked similar up until this episode but then they did the flashbacks and it's amazing just how alike they look! Even Bjorn sometimes as well. The casting in this show is great.

As with everyone else, I knew the end was coming and how it would happen but still... sad to see Ragnar go. I feel like the torture scenes went on too long. It was hard to stomach everything they did to him, especially carving the cross into his face. Yick.

It's amazing how this show (up until this point) has really revolved around 1 monk that Ragnar decided not to kill one day. He had an incredible impact on so many people and his death really was the downfall of Ragnar. I hope he gets to see his friend again in Valhalla or Heaven. 

Now to see whether the show can survive without Ragnar/Fimmel and if Ivar/Hogh can shoulder his new responsibility.

[Haleth]

6 hours ago, rozen said:

But, yes, it was pathetic as an army of terrified men vented their frustration on the broken memory of their greatest enemy.

See Abu Ghraib.

5 hours ago, Ravenya003 said:

Loved all the blind man/one-eyed man imagery. Not sure of the meaning behind one-eyed Odin on the boat though: was it literal, or a metaphor for the impending arrival of Ragnar's sons in England?

Yeah, that quick little scene came and went without any context.  Or maybe it was too subtle for me.  I wondered who this new person was approaching Kattegat.

[Cyranetta]

Quote

Maybe King Aelle had one hell of a herpetologist on staff? I think it's one of those things where the snake pit death may have been urban legend and played up in the sagas for the ick factor. The other version of Ragnar's death, the hanging, seems more likely. History's been written and re-written so many times it's hard to know what's true and what isn't.

I wasn't at all bothered by the inaccuracy of the snakepit depiction for this very reason. Over the centuries there must have been a lot of exaggeration added as the tale was passed down to emphasize the status of either side. Ragnar & Co. are now blend between history and legend, which makes accuracy a challenge.

I suspect they may have needed to use constrictors in the filming for visual emphasis in crowd scenes and long shots, since native adders probably aren't very big and visible at a distance ("why did they throw Ragnar into linguini, Alf?")

[green]

13 hours ago, rozen said:

Also, how the hell did Ecbert walk that far and *not* get robbed or murdered outright?

He was wearing Aethelstan's old monk's robes thus was seen as a wandering monk.  No Saxon would rob or murder a monk and risk hell as a result.  The 1% that didn't believe in a hell as punishment for such an action wouldn't bother because monks take vows of poverty and would have nothing whatsoever of value on them.

[ghoulina]

17 hours ago, magdalene said:

The thing is that Ragnar has been our protagonist, but not our hero - there is a difference.  From the first season watching this show I have been compelled by Ragnar and fascinated by him. But I certainly haven't liked and condoned a lot of what he has done. There is nothing heroic about robbing monasteries and murdering and kidnapping a bunch of defenseless monks for example.

Agreed. There have been times where watching this show has been very hard, because the acts they committed were completely atrocious. I hated seeing feeble old men killed in their church. But that's what makes it interesting television. I much prefer shows with complicated protagonists - Breaking Bad, Sopranos, etc. Sometimes I straight up hate these guys, yet I'm very invested in their stories. It's fun!

[Captanne]

Just amazing.  Everything about the episode has been said.

Ghoulina, it was refreshing to see Ragnar meet his fate (especially the way he did -- of his own making, proudly, and as close to historically accurate as possible) because -- earlier in the series, I felt he was getting a little bit too superhero-ish.  Particularly with the fall from the ramparts that should have damn well killed him and then the idea of the Trojan Coffin.  I know at least the Trojan Coffin has roots in history but, for me, it was getting a bit too cutesy with Ragnar's invincibility.

I just don't see how this show could be any better.  I am completely smitten with it.

[magdalene]

17 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Me, too! I adore JRM, but he was so miscast as the tall, ginger Henry that I couldn't watch it either.

Watch the movie "Velvet Goldmine." ::sigh::

JRM was also excellent in a little movie called "Bend it like Beckham".

Part of the reason I am excited about the future of "Vikings" is because of JRM.

[The Kings Foot]

On Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 0:56 PM, Evagirl said:

It wouldn't bother me if Lagertha died this season as well.  I got kinda put out with her when she was married to that wife beater and she let him whip her up all side her head.  After showing her shield-maiden stuff in the very first episode with those two bums, and how she beat up on Ragnar when she found out he'd had sex with Aslaug...it was just difficult to believe she'd let a man like earl-whatever slap her around.

For all the hoorah about asskicking Lagertha it is important to remember that she was a homeless,divorced single mom at that point. She had a reputation yes but that would also limit the men willing to marry her. There were probably very few Earl ranked norsemen willing and able to marry her at that point.

21 hours ago, magdalene said:

Nods.  I totally understand why they would want to execute Ragnar, but the way they did it..... Of course the Vikings have some really brutal practices themselves, the human sacrifices we saw, the blood eagle thing, etc. I am sure once Ivar really starts in with the torturing of Christians and the killing of innocents I won't be rah, rah about him.

But I do loathe Aelle, the actor does an excellent job making me vividly dislike him. Well done, Aelle actor!

The thing is that Ragnar has been our protagonist, but not our hero - there is a difference.  From the first season watching this show I have been compelled by Ragnar and fascinated by him. But I certainly haven't liked and condoned a lot of what he has done. There is nothing heroic about robbing monasteries and murdering and kidnapping a bunch of defenseless monks for example.

In Ivar, the showrunners have taken a character every bit as cruel as Ramsey Bolton,... and made us root for him.

 

Outstanding.

[Haleth]

Quote

 

In Ivar, the showrunners have taken a character every bit as cruel as Ramsey Bolton,... and made us root for him.

Not me. I'm on Team Alfred. 

Edited December 31, 2016 by Haleth

[Mari]

49 minutes ago, The Kings Foot said:

For all the hoorah about asskicking Lagertha it is important to remember that she was a homeless,divorced single mom at that point. She had a reputation yes but that would also limit the men willing to marry her. There were probably very few Earl ranked norsemen willing and able to marry her at that point.

Plus, while she was beautiful and capable, she was not likely to have more children.  She was aging out of prime childbearing years, and that was important, too.

[theschnauzers]

I suspect we will find, IIRC, that Alfred was just as much Ragnar's son just as Ivar was. Ivar didn't need to be told by Ragnar that he and Judith were to be off limits. I think that is what we were seeing with that chess game. Two sharp minds with a bond.  Ragnar was faithful to himself and his own life principles. He was an explorer of places and of knowledge, which were both sources of the conflicts and challenges he faced throughout his life. While the episode didn't address Bjorn since he was on sail to or in the Mediterranean, Bjorn was Ragnar's first born, and Ragnar had trained him well to lead in battle and at other times. While Ivar may become the most feared of Ragnar's sons, Bjorn was the best known, so I would think both will have roles in the coming battle with the Saxons.

Edited December 31, 2016 by theschnauzers
fix typos

[Captanne]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how fascinating it was to hear Ragnar admit he had lost his faith. "The gods are not important to me but they are to my people."   I think that his bluster at the very end of his life was for Aelle's benefit, not for Ragnar's. I didn't look at Ecbert to see his response to Ragnar's Valhalla/Odin comments but I might go back to watch that again. 

I wonder if Ragnar really did choose Athelstan's God. 

[magdalene]

1 hour ago, Captanne said:

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how fascinating it was to hear Ragnar admit he had lost his faith. "The gods are not important to me but they are to my people."   I think that his bluster at the very end of his life was for Aelle's benefit, not for Ragnar's. I didn't look at Ecbert to see his response to Ragnar's Valhalla/Odin comments but I might go back to watch that again. 

I wonder if Ragnar really did choose Athelstan's God. 

I read today that it was Travis Fimmel's wish for Ragnar to be an Atheist at the end, and Hirst wrote it that way for him.  So the whole blustering speech shortly before he dies is pure theater for his sons and his people. To rile his sons up even more when they hear of it.

[BitterApple]

Given how religion has been the cause of so much violence, death and suffering throughout history, that's kind of cool Travis wanted Ragnar to die an atheist. It fits well with a worn and battle scarred warrior who's probably wondering if it was all worth it in the end. 

[Captanne]

But doesn't Ecbert tell Ivar that Ragnar chose Athelstan's God?  Someone had that line to someone -- and I can't remember the scene. Darn it. (I also see Ragnar as an atheist -- especially if that's what the actor meant to portray.) But maybe someone remembers that line and its context?  I can't. ( But I distinctly remember the line.)

[Kalliste]

46 minutes ago, Captanne said:

But doesn't Ecbert tell Ivar that Ragnar chose Athelstan's God?  Someone had that line to someone -- and I can't remember the scene. Darn it. (I also see Ragnar as an atheist -- especially if that's what the actor meant to portray.) But maybe someone remembers that line and its context?  I can't. ( But I distinctly remember the line.)

I don't recall that, only that Ragnar told Eckbert that Athelstan chose his god in the end.

[Sakura12]

I do wish Ragnar went out biting the heads off the snakes as they bit him. But oh well, he still died like a Viking without screaming. 

I wasn't mad that Lagertha killed Aslaug last episode, I kind of got the impression that she meant she wanted safe passage to Valhalla. Because she thought her favorite son had died and wanted to join him. To me her smile meant she was happy Lagertha understood her message or fell for her manipulations. Either way Lagertha did what she wanted. Plus besides her sons no one else seemed broken up about her death, they all jumped to follow Lagertha once again. Then she got her Queen Viking funeral that she would not have gotten if she had left and died somewhere else. As Ecbert said the Vikings are all about death. I think even Lagertha knows her time is coming soon and she wants to die at her home which is Kattegat. So she is ready to die at the hands of Ragnar's sons if they want to kill her. 

As for Ivar, I think Lagertha will make a deal with him, she will give him all the ships and warriors he needs to get his revenge for Ragnar. Because despite their differences, they both loved Ragnar want to kill King Ecbert and King Aelle.  Then when he comes back he can get his revenge for his mother.  I would hope that Lagertha doesn't underestimate Ivar and can see that he has Ragnar's intelligence. Which would be the reason she wants him to lead an army to England. 

I did like seeing Ivar and Alfred playing chess, knowing they will one day meet on the battlefield. 

[Captanne]

Thanks, Kalliste!  That's it!  I knew I remembered that comment but couldn't remember the context.  

[nodorothyparker]

17 hours ago, Captanne said:

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how fascinating it was to hear Ragnar admit he had lost his faith. "The gods are not important to me but they are to my people."   I think that his bluster at the very end of his life was for Aelle's benefit, not for Ragnar's. I didn't look at Ecbert to see his response to Ragnar's Valhalla/Odin comments but I might go back to watch that again. 

It was fascinating, and it's one thing I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt on as being sincere even after it became apparent that he was lying to Ecbert about other things, like who exactly he would be naming as number one vengeance target for the sons.  I can well imagine that having lived the life he's lived and been exposed to alternate belief through Athelstan and Ecbert and everything he's seen in England, that he did come to realize "the gods are man's creation to give them the answers they are too afraid to give themselves."  His entire speech to the blind driver/seer was a huge rejection of Viking belief that everything was designed and willed by the gods and that their lives were already fated no matter what they did.

I think too that his bluster at the end about going to Valhalla was mostly for the benefit of everyone witnessing his execution because he knew the story would live long beyond him, as it obviously has.  His sons will hear that he died in the Viking way, stoically accepting it without screaming or bargaining or breaking, with talk of the gods and Valhalla on his lips.  That's likely to only further inflame them, as Ragnar told Ecbert it would.

Ecbert was watching that final speech with a look of utter wonder and amazement on his face.  Knowing that Ragnar had said he no longer believed in any of it, he had to be aware of the incredible inner strength it must have taken to go through it anyway after what looked like a full day and night of torture before they got to that point.  Ragnar briefly looked like he might be flagging, probably from the pain and exhaustion of it, before he zeroed in on Ecbert in the crowd.    

Edited December 31, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[tennisgurl]

I have been putting off watching this, because I was spoiled and heard about the end of Ragnar, but I thought they did it just the way they should have, and, now that I've seen it, I think this was the right call. Ragnar ended his saga the right way, as a badass Viking, inspiring fear and respect from everyone who knew of him. Although, I do wonder how we are supposed to take Ragnars atheism. On the one hand, it makes sense with his character journey, but on the other, how does it fit into the mythology of the show? They have always been vague about whether supernatural stuff (visions, omens, seeing/sleeping with gods) was a part of the show, or if it was just faith and coincidence. Will we keep it going? 

The music and cinematography in this show is just so epic. And, as much as I will understand them killing off Ragnar, I will miss the hell out of Travis on this show. He is just an amazing actor, and I will gladly follow him to wherever project he moves onto next. His lack of Emmy's (and the lack of anger from the TV community about that) is just a travesty. 

[Ohwell]

Ragnar out!

*drops the mic*

[Captanne]

Ya know?  Travis Fimmel also felt, to me, like he set the standard for that strange clipped accent they all use. It's like they were (are) all trying to follow his lead on what gets clipped and accented and what doesn't.  I always felt Ragnar sounded "right and authentic".  

 

ETA:  I should add here that I watch a lot of Nordic modern television so I hear the modern languages (Swedish, Finnish, Norwegian) quite a bit. We don't have cable but we do have MHZ  and Amazon Prime on the Roku. I don't buy a lot of shows but Vikings I have bought in SD every season. 

Edited December 31, 2016 by Captanne

[nodorothyparker]

I'd never really watched any Nordic television before and wasn't really familiar with many actors from that part of the world, so I just accepted that they were doing English with a Nordic accent to set the characters apart from all the Western Europeans we'd come to meet later.  Now that the show does have a fair number of native Dane and Finnish actors and I've had the chance to see some of them in interviews, it seems like their English is a less exaggerated version of what we're seeing on the show.  I'm good with it.  It would have been weird to hear characters from Kattegat, Wessex, and Frankia all speaking with the same proper English accent, which oddly seems to happen on some shows where characters aren't supposed to be anywhere close to each other or from the same place.  (Game of Thrones, I'm looking at you.) 

[The Kings Foot]

57 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I'd never really watched any Nordic television before and wasn't really familiar with many actors from that part of the world, so I just accepted that they were doing English with a Nordic accent to set the characters apart from all the Western Europeans we'd come to meet later.  Now that the show does have a fair number of native Dane and Finnish actors and I've had the chance to see some of them in interviews, it seems like their English is a less exaggerated version of what we're seeing on the show.  I'm good with it.  It would have been weird to hear characters from Kattegat, Wessex, and Frankia all speaking with the same proper English accent, which oddly seems to happen on some shows where characters aren't supposed to be anywhere close to each other or from the same place.  (Game of Thrones, I'm looking at you.) 

GOT did try to set up an acceny convention- Boyond 

Wildings-scottish.

North - Yorkish.

Vale- welsh.

Dorne- spanish.

But the rest of westeros ended up just being a muddle of generic english

[scrambled eggs]

On 12/28/2016 at 10:14 PM, Triskan said:

Damn, the actor who plays Ubbe looks a lot like younger Ragnar ! 

I think that might be even better casting than Bjorn. 

I watched the episode today. Wanted to wait a few days before seeing Ragnar died. It's an understatement, but Vikings won't be the same without him and especially Travis Fimmel's performance. 

[magdalene]

3 hours ago, Captanne said:

Ya know?  Travis Fimmel also felt, to me, like he set the standard for that strange clipped accent they all use. It's like they were (are) all trying to follow his lead on what gets clipped and accented and what doesn't.  I always felt Ragnar sounded "right and authentic".  

 

ETA:  I should add here that I watch a lot of Nordic modern television so I hear the modern languages (Swedish, Finnish, Norwegian) quite a bit. We don't have cable but we do have MHZ  and Amazon Prime on the Roku. I don't buy a lot of shows but Vikings I have bought in SD every season. 

Yes, Ragnar sounded "right" to me too.  Another of Fimmel's accomplishments since he is Aussie, not Scandinavian.

[millennium]

On 12/29/2016 at 2:04 PM, Evagirl said:

I've been hearing the name "Jonathan Rhys Meyers" but don't have a clue as to who he is.  What character does he play?

I was going to say Ivar, LOL.   The actor who plays Ivar could be his son.  

On 12/30/2016 at 7:23 PM, The Kings Foot said:

For all the hoorah about asskicking Lagertha it is important to remember that she was a homeless,divorced single mom at that point. She had a reputation yes but that would also limit the men willing to marry her. There were probably very few Earl ranked norsemen willing and able to marry her at that point.

In Ivar, the showrunners have taken a character every bit as cruel as Ramsey Bolton,... and made us root for him.

 

Outstanding.

IMO, Lagertha had to kill Aslaug.  If she were left alive and word came back that Ragnar was dead, Auslaug might have felt confident enough to have her sons go after Lagertha.    

I think Ivar has a little ways to go yet before attaining full Ramseydom.   Six to nine inches maybe.

Ragnar's death felt anticlimactic but then no form of death would be grand enough to honor this character.   I will miss him very much.

The snakes troubled me.  Many of them were not native.   Some were boas and posed little threat (compared to the venomous ones).  Also, given the season and the cold temperature, those snakes would have been in hibernation.   The snakes where I live don't emerge until about May (you know it's spring when you find them sunning themselves on the walkways).  I kept wondering what they feed them.   Is there a royal snake handler?  Do they catch rats for the snakes?

I also want to know how Ecbert, on foot -- barefoot, even --  got so far ahead of the wagon transporting Ragnar that he was able to be walking towards it as it progressed down the path towards King Aella's realm.

[theschnauzers]

As has been seen with Outlander during its French episodes, snakes can be brought from their native habitation in warmer climates and kept alive without too much difficulty. I suspect that was true during the time of the Saxons and the Vikings in Britain. IIRC, snakes were known to the Romans who had occupied Britain before that, and they would have been known to the Greeks during the time of Alexander the Great's empire which was mostly in Central Asia, Southwest Asia and Southeastern Europe before that. Many of the dangerous species were from the Indian subcontinent, and trade existed in these areas and even with China throughout. So having various dangerous snakes would not have been difficult, and for me, there was no credibility issue with their presence or the accounts that Ragnar died in a snake pit.

15 minutes ago, millennium said:

I also want to know how Ecbert, on foot -- barefoot, even --  got so far ahead of the wagon transporting Ragnar that he was able to be walking towards it as it progressed down the path towards King Aella's realm.

The caravan of soldiers and prisoner cage on a flatbed cart would have been moving slower than a man on foot, and it seems Ecbert was traveling a more direct route on the beach that the caravan which would have been on dirt road paths moving more slowly.

[Haleth]

That was a heck of a walk for an old man like Ecbert.  It would have taken weeks to walk from Winchester to York.

[lidarose9]

On 12/31/2016 at 11:05 AM, tennisgurl said:

 Although, I do wonder how we are supposed to take Ragnars atheism. On the one hand, it makes sense with his character journey, but on the other, how does it fit into the mythology of the show? They have always been vague about whether supernatural stuff (visions, omens, seeing/sleeping with gods) was a part of the show, or if it was just faith and coincidence. Will we keep it going?

To me, for purposes of the show, it doesn't matter what Ragnar believes. He lives in a culture that has a particular belief system and worldview, so that is what we are shown. We see the world the way a Viking sees it, since these are Viking stories.

Ragnar himself has seen enough to make him realize that he lives his own life and makes his own decisions. If that happens to coincide with what the Seer said or what the gods decreed, that's fine by him, whatever. I don't think he is atheist as much as he embraced the great unknown, an agnostic.

[nodorothyparker]

One of the things I've long admired about this show is that it doesn't tell us that any of this is definitively real or not whether it be Norse or Christian.  If a character sees signs or has visions or just believes it to be true, it's real to him or her and affects how they choose to act.  Ragnar towed the official line to the very end so what he may have privately believed doesn't really matter much in the larger scheme of things for the Vikings.

Edited January 1, 2017 by nodorothyparker

[magdalene]

6 hours ago, Haleth said:

That was a heck of a walk for an old man like Ecbert.  It would have taken weeks to walk from Winchester to York.

He wore Athelstan's robes, maybe Athelstan's spirit gave him strength?  Only half joking here...

12 hours ago, millennium said:

I was going to say Ivar, LOL.   The actor who plays Ivar could be his son.   

I don't really understand why Hirst has been so secretive about who JRM is playing, it just leads to confusion and probably disappointment in some quarters.

Spoiler

JRM is a name actor so he is playing somebody important. Hirst confirmed it's not a Viking character, plus there are photos from set of Meyers in character with the Christian cross around his neck. I don't see who else it would be but the adult Alfred.  I also don't see Alex Hogh getting recast for someone to play older Ivar - change his hair style and add some facial stubble/hair and he'll look older.

[raven]

On 12/29/2016 at 9:59 PM, nodorothyparker said:

 Right now we're all rooting hard for Ivar and the rest of the sons to come get their vengeance on Aelle and Ecbert too for killing Ragnar when the reality is that countless innocents who had nothing to do with it are going to suffer and die because of the events that were set in motion this episode.

It's interesting because Aelle and Ecbert both have positioned themselves above the "common folk" and we never really saw that with Ragnar.  He was Earl and King but always one of the people.   We've seen him playing with his kids and fighting with his army.  Even though his friends and family (Hi Floki!  Hi Rollo!) have tortured and raped, Ragnar has not.  I don't count the blood eagle because that was Viking justice, not Ragnar having fun.  

Ragnar was shown as curious, open-minded and intelligent; all admirable qualities IMO.  Yes, he led an army that did atrocious things; he stole, murdered and enslaved but we rooted for him anyway.  For me, a lot is due to Travis Fimmel's charismatic performance.  He brought Ragnar to life, showed his confidence and desperation.  He could do so much with no dialogue at all!  I was happy this episode was 99% Ragnar; that he went on his own terms and that he had a frenemy with him at the end.

His death will leave a big hole in the show but I'm very interested to see where they go next. 

[lidarose9]

Someone (I forget who) was talking about Aslaug and said: "She never loved anybody except _____." Who did they say, and who was it?