Bonus Episode: Ask Me Anything

[laurakaye]

7 minutes ago, shirazplease said:

Netflix has it on DVD and I think they have it streaming too.

Bingo!!

[gaileygirl]

I loved one point where Leah was throwing out ideas of how to reach all of the folks living in the Sea Org with information.  Maybe there should be a campaign to have Amazon drones drop all of these books on Flag one day.

If you are looking for an equally creepy non-Scientology related book, but I highly recommend "Under The Banner Of Heaven" by John Krakauer. It's about FLDS and is riveting.

[Wings]

3 hours ago, laurakaye said:

I have the book Going Clear on hold at the library, and after that I think I need to read Jenna's book.  I've already read Leah's book, and I really need to figure out how I can watch the Going Clear documentary - I have cable, but not HBO...wondering if I can somehow get it On Demand.

It is available for rent on Netflix and amazon and probably others.  I am going to rent it for a xmas present to myself. I will be alone.  Pilot son is working, other son is doing wife family this year.   Add some good food and Scotch and I will have a delightful day! 

[Wings]

52 minutes ago, gaileygirl said:

I loved one point where Leah was throwing out ideas of how to reach all of the folks living in the Sea Org with information.  Maybe there should be a campaign to have Amazon drones drop all of these books on Flag one day.

If you are looking for an equally creepy non-Scientology related book, but I highly recommend "Under The Banner Of Heaven" by John Krakauer. It's about FLDS and is riveting.

Ha!  Wouldn't that be good if it would work!   Reaching Sea Org kids is a daunting and probably an impossible task.  Essentially they are without parents, COS is their security.  They will see the light or die believing. 

The strengh of this series is stopping recruits. I bet book sales are way up for all the authors. 

I am currently obsessed with cults.  I have been here before, just taking another run at it!   Thanks for the book recommendation. 

[aamankwah]

On 12/20/2016 at 0:03 AM, green said:

Paulette Cooper, the journalist who wrote the first book on these people, really went through hell.  She is the very definition of hero.

All the other interviews were intense too.  That poor woman who first got disconnected from her only son then had him, at age 25, die because they refused to take him to a doctor was beyond belief.  That the cult leaned on the funeral home NOT to allow her to even see his dead body one last time ... what?!. 

Scientology is making "Dear Leader's" brainwashing techniques in North Korea look like child's play in comparison given these people live in a relatively free country where they have other options.  Yet they keep the lion's share of their victims under control year in and year out.

But with everyone finally not seeming to be afraid anymore -- could you imagine A&E putting on a show like this a decade ago even? -- this group is about to implode big time.  When people no longer fear petty small fry tyrants they lose their power which was illusion in the end.  Leah declaring that the emperor wears no clothes on the largest mass media examination of Scientology to date is going to start a massive cascading effect.

 What I am trying to figure out is what did they say to the funeral director? Because Karen said that they scared the hell out of him. Also who was that person her son was having sex with at 12! That is RAPE and I know the CULT knew about it!

[aamankwah]

On 12/20/2016 at 9:22 AM, laurakaye said:

If nothing else comes of this show, I hope it re-opens the case to find out what happened to Shelly Miscavige.  I find it bizarre that no one really knows if she's dead or being held against her will.  How does the wife of a cult leader go missing for - what - 10 years now?  And no one is clear where she is?  Did I hear right that somehow the COS paid off the people that were looking for her?  How is it that she's not being looked for, and Miscavige isn't being questioned?

I seriously feel as if she is dead. We need to go to that Lake Arrowhead compound Mike was talking about and bust her out!

[Almost 3000]

11 hours ago, fifty8th said:

I saw you can watch it on youtube for like $5 I've never paid to watch anything on youtube so I don't know how that works.

Amazon has it for $4.99. Save that penny!

[spiderpig]

8 hours ago, wings707 said:

It is available for rent on Netflix and amazon and probably others.  I am going to rent it for a xmas present to myself. I will be alone.  Pilot son is working, other son is doing wife family this year.   Add some good food and Scotch and I will have a delightful day! 

I'm alone too. Hub is in Australia visiting cousins.  I'm babysitting the cat and dog.  I don't have any Scotch onhand (Macallan for you?) but will raise a glass of Napa cab for you.

Meanwhile, I'll probably watch Bad Santa. (to keep on topic - envisioning Tommy or Davy as Billy Bob's elf).

[Wings]

1 hour ago, spiderpig said:

I'm alone too. Hub is in Australia visiting cousins.  I'm babysitting the cat and dog.  I don't have any Scotch onhand (Macallan for you?) but will raise a glass of Napa cab for you.

Meanwhile, I'll probably watch Bad Santa. (to keep on topic - envisioning Tommy or Davy as Billy Bob's elf).

Johnny Walker Red for me with some Trader Joe's treats.  You have me obsessing about the dates now. The better have them. 

[fastiller]

23 hours ago, msharpe said:

I haven't decided how I feel about Mike Rinder. I don't think he's nefarious or a spy, but I think he hasn't necessarily taken responsibility for his actions when he was in the CO$. I need to watch Going Clear again and see how he was in that. 

I think that his involvement in this series is part of his taking responsibility.  Actually, better to say it this way: it's a start to him taking responsibility.  I have no idea how many episodes were ordered; perhaps we'll see him actually say "I am so sorry that I did X or Y" on a future ep. 

[LilWharveyGal]

Speaking of Mike, I loved the moment when Leah mimicked his name, because I always read/pronounce it in my head the way he says it, "Mike Rinda."

[iMonrey]

Finally caught this on rerun. Two thoughts:

I thought they sort of glossed over the whole Xenu thing. That may speak to the fact that the belief isn't as prevalent or important to the church as South Park would have us believe, or it may be that they are simply embarrassed to be associated with a church that has such a belief. Or a bit of both. But, at least they addressed it. South Park is what really pulled back the curtain on the reality of the church and made them a laughing stock. I get that they want to focus more on the abuse and damage the church causes its members, but that interview with Juliette Lewis seemed to indicate some members think the whole Xenu thing is a big misunderstanding and not really part of their beliefs.

I also think - perhaps unwittingly - Leah touched upon the lure or organized religions as a whole, when she pointed out that nobody is going to actively pursue information that discredits a belief system they base their whole lives on. I can appreciate that it's true of Scientologists, but it's also true of Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc. People don't really question their beliefs because it serves them as a security blanket. I don't think the show is really interested in delving into that because they're more focused on exposing the abuse of the CO$ specifically, but they do seem to skirt the issue of why people are drawn to the church in the first place. And it's basically the same reason anyone is drawn to any religion: looking for answers, meaning, comfort, etc. In that respect, Scientology is no different than any other religion. 

[Wings]

It seems the helpful information they learn is general and can be found in self help books and alternate spiritual beliefs that focuson positive thinking.  That is not a problem.  

LRH created this church to make money. Xenu does not play a part in anything beyond  the mentally skewed science fiction writers, brain. 

I wonder what is going on with DM. He acts like he is on anphedamines.  I am not convinced he isn't.  He has a diagnosis, I would put money on either or both. 

Edited December 24, 2016 by wings707

[WInterfalls]

11 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I thought they sort of glossed over the whole Xenu thing. That may speak to the fact that the belief isn't as prevalent or important to the church as South Park would have us believe, or it may be that they are simply embarrassed to be associated with a church that has such a belief. Or a bit of both. But, at least they addressed it. South Park is what really pulled back the curtain on the reality of the church and made them a laughing stock. I get that they want to focus more on the abuse and damage the church causes its members, but that interview with Juliette Lewis seemed to indicate some members think the whole Xenu thing is a big misunderstanding and not really part of their beliefs.

I think lots of Scientologists don't honestly know about Xenu.  Jenna Miscavige Hill didn't know about it until after she got out and watched the South Park episode.  And she was actually really afraid to watch it because she had been told that it is very dangerous to look at the levels above you.  When she did finally watch it that was the moment where she went oh this is all fiction.  I think a lot of the scientologists that are in don't actually know or believe it is a thing until they get there and by that point they have invested so much they don't think they can question it.  

[WInterfalls]

2 hours ago, wings707 said:

I wonder what is going on with DM. He acts like he is on anphedamines.  I am not convinced he isn't.  He has a diagnosis, I would put money on either or both. 

He has something actually wrong with him I am pretty sure.  In Going Clear they talked about how even as a child he would become violent and attack people if they touched him while he was having an asthma attack.  I think his whole family has always been a little afraid of him.  

Edited December 22, 2016 by WInterfalls
clarification

[princelina]

10 hours ago, WInterfalls said:

I think lots of Scientologists don't honestly know about Xenu.  Jenna Miscavige Hill didn't know about it until after she got out and watched the South Park episode.  And she was actually really afraid to watch it because she had been told that it is very dangerous to look at the levels above you.  When she did finally watch it that was the moment where she went oh this is all fiction.  I think a lot of the scientologists that are in don't actually know or believe it is a thing until they get there and by that point they have invested so much they don't think they can question it.  

I remember that Rolling Stone article from 10 or more years ago - a person they interviewed said it was a big deal to get to that level - and upon being given the secrets, she (I think) felt foolish but didn't know what to do because everyone else acted like it was normal and there was no one she could talk to without getting in trouble, so she just acted like it was no big deal too.

[ParadoxLost]

I found two things interesting about this episode.

When they were talking about the OT levels, there was this weird exchange between Leah and Mike.  Kind of a nervous laughter exchange about whether they were going to elaborate.  Definite vibe that they clearly had a mutual and unspoken understanding that they wouldn't be.  It made me think that some of the lack of specifics on the courses is that Scientology still has some legal hold over them on things that they can't divulge.

Also that Scientology disclaimer seemed to be flashing on screen way more often than usual.  Doesn't it usually only show up at commercial breaks.  I think they put it up there several times before going to each break.

[bref]

Does anyone know how the South Park guys obtained the "higher level" information that they revealed in the Scientology episode?

[ParadoxLost]

1 hour ago, bref said:

Does anyone know how the South Park guys obtained the "higher level" information that they revealed in the Scientology episode?

Investigative reporter named Mark Ebner consulted for them.   He wrote this in the mid 90s.

http://www.hollywoodinterrupted.com/2006/03/23/ebner-undercover-scientology-spy-magazine-1996/

The interesting thing in there is how he said hw thought that the internet would be Scientology's Waterloo.  And that seems to be true.  How many of these people Leah is interviewing are talking about Google and the internet as what opened their eyes.  A lot of them.

Edited December 24, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[Loves2Dance]

I rewatched the old Sweeney reboot when Mike was his friend not enemy and I never realized that Mike joined (I'm not sure if he's still in it or not) a reboot of scientology. It seems his issue is not with Scientology the religion, it's how DM is running the church of Scientology. This could explain the weird vibe I get from him---unlike Leah who has come straight out and said, "All of this is nuts, how could I have ever believed it..." Mike may still be in the camp of, "I still believe this, it is my religion, but I refuse to accept the practices that are going on." 

[Sylkken]

32 minutes ago, Loves2Dance said:

I rewatched the old Sweeney reboot when Mike was his friend not enemy and I never realized that Mike joined (I'm not sure if he's still in it or not) a reboot of scientology. It seems his issue is not with Scientology the religion, it's how DM is running the church of Scientology. This could explain the weird vibe I get from him---unlike Leah who has come straight out and said, "All of this is nuts, how could I have ever believed it..." Mike may still be in the camp of, "I still believe this, it is my religion, but I refuse to accept the practices that are going on." 

So coincidental...I just watched the exact same thing on YouTube and out of the entire video, that is precisely what stood out to me (and surprised me), as well. I believe the documentary is from 2010 so I was thinking that it's possible that Rinder's views have changed since then. Maybe his blog has some info on his current beliefs; I'll have to check that out. I didn't really get a strange vibe from Mike Rinder or more accurately, any strange affect he does have, I just kind of chalked it up to PTSD or something similar. Being indoctrinated at the tender age of 6 and then that being reinforced/brainwashed for the next 45 or so years, I can see why it would take some time to become completely disabused of the entire philosophy.  Scientology (at least in the beginning stages) seems to offer self-improvement/self-help type courses, so I can see why someone would think there is some value in that. That being said, many self-help books can offer the same things minus all the crazy and the dollars! Here's the the documentary in case anyone else is interested:

[3girlsforus]

On 12/22/2016 at 11:54 PM, princelina said:

I remember that Rolling Stone article from 10 or more years ago - a person they interviewed said it was a big deal to get to that level - and upon being given the secrets, she (I think) felt foolish but didn't know what to do because everyone else acted like it was normal and there was no one she could talk to without getting in trouble, so she just acted like it was no big deal too.

Very 'Emperor's New Clothes'

[serenitynow]

How can this "religion" not fizzle out soon?  Where would they find new recruits with everyone having access to information on what a crock this all is and how expensive it is to "accomplish" the levels?  

I know he was brainwashed and is a victim and all, but how Rinder doesn't even look embarrassed when the ex-members are all saying he was there when Miscaviage was beating them up is beyond me.  

[Wings]

3 hours ago, serenitynow said:

How can this "religion" not fizzle out soon?  Where would they find new recruits with everyone having access to information on what a crock this all is and how expensive it is to "accomplish" the levels?  

I know he was brainwashed and is a victim and all, but how Rinder doesn't even look embarrassed when the ex-members are all saying he was there when Miscaviage was beating them up is beyond me.  

He feels much more than embarrassment.  The pain under the surface is there beneath his reserve.  I see it.   He and others who did David's bidding and admit it are brave to step forward.   I have mad respect for him.

Edited December 24, 2016 by wings707

[zxy556575]

It may be that what puts some people off about Rinder is his lack of visible emotion and overall low affect. He rarely smiles or even moves his face much, even while recounting wrenching stories. His eyes are dead. Maybe he's naturally stoic or has said the same things so many times they've become rote, but it can make him seem jaded and uncaring.

Compare that to Leah, who despite her botox, still manages to convey a genuine sense of concern and alarm.

[spiderpig]

On 12/21/2016 at 8:16 PM, wings707 said:

Johnny Walker Red for me with some Trader Joe's treats.  You have me obsessing about the dates now. The better have them. 

Safeway delivers here. I just got (an hour ago) dates, blue cheese, gorgonzola, bacon, and toothpicks.

Meanwhile, back at the cult, I'm going to re-listen to Jenna's book.  And Merry Christmas to you and yours! (hey - the Patriots are murdering the Jets).

[DangerousMinds]

6 hours ago, serenitynow said:

How can this "religion" not fizzle out soon?  Where would they find new recruits with everyone having access to information on what a crock this all is and how expensive it is to "accomplish" the levels?  

I know he was brainwashed and is a victim and all, but how Rinder doesn't even look embarrassed when the ex-members are all saying he was there when Miscaviage was beating them up is beyond me.  

I feel the same about almost all "religions."

[Sew Sumi]

6 hours ago, serenitynow said:

How can this "religion" not fizzle out soon?  Where would they find new recruits with everyone having access to information on what a crock this all is and how expensive it is to "accomplish" the levels?  

I know he was brainwashed and is a victim and all, but how Rinder doesn't even look embarrassed when the ex-members are all saying he was there when Miscaviage was beating them up is beyond me.  

What baffles me about the survival of the CO$ is that Jenna mentioned that the higher-ups were encouraging married Sea Org members NOT to have children. The current generation is rapidly aging; the only new blood will come from "public" members' spawn or recruitment on college campuses. I really don't see it lasting much longer after Miscavige shuffles off this mortal coil to whoop it up with Xenu.

[spiderpig]

3 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

What baffles me about the survival of the CO$ is that Jenna mentioned that the higher-ups were encouraging married Sea Org members NOT to have children. The current generation is rapidly aging; the only new blood will come from "public" members' spawn or recruitment on college campuses. I really don't see it lasting much longer after Miscavige shuffles off this mortal coil to whoop it up with Xenu.

Nobody ever accused this bunch of weirdos of being smart or foresighted.

[Sew Sumi]

True dat! Kids really seem to be a money-sucking nuisance to them. If they are so stupid not to realize that they are, for the most part, the CO$'s future, well, too bad, so sad. 

The sooner, the better. Not even Tommy Boy or Will Smith will be able to save them for long. 

[Wings]

20 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

Safeway delivers here. I just got (an hour ago) dates, blue cheese, gorgonzola, bacon, and toothpicks.

Meanwhile, back at the cult, I'm going to re-listen to Jenna's book.  And Merry Christmas to you and yours! (hey - the Patriots are murdering the Jets).

I am going to make mine tomorrow. I bought parsley to chop and put with the cheese to add a touch of freshness.

[Glade]

On 12/20/2016 at 4:01 AM, wings707 said:

The 15 yr old who was having sex with a 40 year old woman was shocking.  Predators are everywhere. The most shocking is that this was not stopped by COS. I tend to believe it was known by some but they feared punishment if they reported it.  If his mother knows more she decided not to say.  

Actually he was 12, so I would say he was being sexually abused by a 40 year old woman.  I wish Leah or someone else had taken a second to clarify that--there is no such thing as consent in that scenario.   But it is ironic, given that the church is so fond of smearing people who leave and speak out by calling them pedophiles and rapists, given what abuses sea org children have had to live with. 

[serenitynow]

5 hours ago, wings707 said:

He feels much more than embarrassment.  The pain under the surface is there beneath his reserve.  I see it.   He and others who did David's bidding and admit it are brave to step forward.   I have mad respect for him.

I absolutely agree that he and the others are brave.  I assume it's a defense mechanism but it's almost like he's hearing a story that he wasn't involved in.  I felt his tears were genuine when they all broke down.  I'm not meaning to diss the guy at all.  It's just interesting to me.

[Wings]

7 hours ago, spiderpig said:

Safeway delivers here. I just got (an hour ago) dates, blue cheese, gorgonzola, bacon, and toothpicks.

Meanwhile, back at the cult, I'm going to re-listen to Jenna's book.  And Merry Christmas to you and yours! (hey - the Patriots are murdering the Jets).

Learning curve. Cook bacon in skillet first, on low heat, to render a lot of the fat out to reduce baking time and excess fat on cookie sheet.  Parsley was a good addition.  Sooooo good. Thanks for this!  

[juliet73]

6 hours ago, serenitynow said:

I absolutely agree that he and the others are brave.  I assume it's a defense mechanism but it's almost like he's hearing a story that he wasn't involved in.  I felt his tears were genuine when they all broke down.  I'm not meaning to diss the guy at all.  It's just interesting to me.

I really think Mike suffers from PTSD.  In that type of setting, where ex members are rehashing their Scientology trauma, he probably needs to mentally "check out" just to remain stable/sane.  I'm sure he feels embarrassed for being conned by the "church", but I think he feels so much guilt and shame for the role he participated in.  

[serenitynow]

That makes sense.

[spiderpig]

1 hour ago, wings707 said:

Learning curve. Cook bacon in skillet first, on low heat, to render a lot of the fat out to reduce baking time and excess fat on cookie sheet.  Parsley was a good addition.  Sooooo good. Thanks for this!  

I will follow your suggestion.  This will obviously help me purge my body thetans, or whatever the heck we're supposed to be plagued with.  (And I have beautiful flat-leaf parsley in my herb garden!)  :-)

[mbaywife123]

Good night and peace on earth to all!

[bubbly]

Is it striking anyone else as odd that Marty Rathbun hasn't been featured in this?  I know he left *Miscavige's* Scientology but was still an adherent of the philosophy -so much so that he was still auditing apostates- so maybe that's why he hasn't appeared?  Or maybe the suit involving his wife versus the COS had a nondisclosure agreement that has made him clam (heh-heh) up?  The footage of the Squirrel Busters hassling him that's been shown whenever his mug is onscreen  is powerfully bizarre, completely infuriating, and disturbing; those people are the Cujo Supreme of rabid dog fanatics.  I know this isnt exactly on topic, but wasn't sure where else to put it.

Edited December 25, 2016 by bubbly
Christmas brain

[spiderpig]

6 hours ago, bubbly said:

Is it striking anyone else as odd that Marty Rathbun hasn't been featured in this?  I know he left *Miscavige's* Scientology but was still an adherent of the philosophy -so much so that he was still auditing apostates- so maybe that's why he hasn't appeared?  Or maybe the suit involving his wife versus the COS had a nondisclosure agreement that has made him clam (heh-heh) up?  The footage of the Squirrel Busters hassling him that's been shown whenever his mug is onscreen  is powerfully bizarre, completely infuriating, and disturbing; those people are the Cujo Supreme of rabid dog fanatics.  I know this isnt exactly on topic, but wasn't sure where else to put it.

(I wish I put as much thought into real life as I do into whether something is On Topic on these threads.  You're fine with me, Bubbly.)

Yeah - Rathbun is a cypher lately.  Makes me wonder what the Clams have on him.  It can't be worse than what he probably has on the Clams.

Thanks for reminding me about the Squirrels!!!

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎12‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 11:54 PM, princelina said:

I remember that Rolling Stone article from 10 or more years ago - a person they interviewed said it was a big deal to get to that level - and upon being given the secrets, she (I think) felt foolish but didn't know what to do because everyone else acted like it was normal and there was no one she could talk to without getting in trouble, so she just acted like it was no big deal too.

Paul Haggis talked of it in Going Clear.  He said he just laughed off the big Xenu, when they gave him the super secret brief case.  He said he felt the "religion" helped him so much, that the Xenu garbage could be disregarded.  Here is an interesting quote from an article in The Underground Bunker.  Paul Haggis said:

"Despite what is being said in their rather pathetic attack pieces on me, I was very involved in Scientology for most of my adult life. While I thought the OT levels madness, I used many Scientology precepts in my daily life — so much so that it took several years after leaving to actually question the many 'self-help' concepts that I had learned and used. The slow indoctrination process is as subtle as it is dangerous — largely because you truly believe that you are thinking for yourself, when in fact you are discouraged to do anything of the sort."

How also talks about being part of a marginalized group, and how he left blaming all the evils on Miscavige.  It was only later that he realized Miscavige was following LRH's play book.

http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/24/going-clear-paul-haggis-pens-a-description-of-the-scientology-experience-you-wont-forget/

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 8:59 AM, bubbly said:

Is it striking anyone else as odd that Marty Rathbun hasn't been featured in this?  I know he left *Miscavige's* Scientology but was still an adherent of the philosophy -so much so that he was still auditing apostates- so maybe that's why he hasn't appeared?  Or maybe the suit involving his wife versus the COS had a nondisclosure agreement that has made him clam (heh-heh) up?  The footage of the Squirrel Busters hassling him that's been shown whenever his mug is onscreen  is powerfully bizarre, completely infuriating, and disturbing; those people are the Cujo Supreme of rabid dog fanatics.  I know this isnt exactly on topic, but wasn't sure where else to put it.

Marty Rathbun really fascinates me.  In contrast to Rinder, Marty comes off like a kind, sweet, even gentle man.  Yet he calmly tells of how he alienated Nicole Kidman's children.  He taught them daily that she was evil and dangerous, and they should hate her.  I don't recall him expressing any regret or shame.  I didn't feel the torment and regret (masked by a lot of anger) I get from Rinder.  Yet he still gives me the impression of melancholy and kindness.

There's something else - Rathbun was known as the best auditor in Scientology.  That means he was highly manipulative, and astute at working people for hours to confess any tiny offense - real or imagined.  I like him when I watch his interview, but I know about the things I've mentioned, and I can't trust him.

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 8:59 AM, bubbly said:

Is it striking anyone else as odd that Marty Rathbun hasn't been featured in this?  I know he left *Miscavige's* Scientology but was still an adherent of the philosophy -so much so that he was still auditing apostates- so maybe that's why he hasn't appeared?  Or maybe the suit involving his wife versus the COS had a nondisclosure agreement that has made him clam (heh-heh) up?  The footage of the Squirrel Busters hassling him that's been shown whenever his mug is onscreen  is powerfully bizarre, completely infuriating, and disturbing; those people are the Cujo Supreme of rabid dog fanatics.  I know this isnt exactly on topic, but wasn't sure where else to put it.

Tony Ortega says the stories that Rathbun still follows the beliefs and audits ex-members are false.  http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/25/going-clear-marty-rathbun-on-what-he-was-thinking-during-his-key-moment-in-gibneys-film/

Here's one quote from Rathbun in that article:

“What I was actually doing was asking people to tell me how Scientology had harmed them, and then they had the freedom to talk about things they had always been afraid to say while they were in the church. I’d ask that question and just listen to them for hours and acknowledge what Scientology had done to mess them up,” he added. “And the funny thing is, Scientology has been in court saying that they surveilled me because I was using their technology. Actually, I was helping people get away from it.”

[Diane Mars]

Regardind Rathbrun, there's an interesting documentary here (sorry if it has already been mentionned, but I found it really interesting) :

[Wings]

Thank you @Diane Mars.  Every video and written piece brings new information just when you think, yeah okay I have heard this 100 times.  This is a good one. 

[FairyDusted]

A gift that keeps on giving.

[Diane Mars]

13 hours ago, wings707 said:

Thank you @Diane Mars.  Every video and written piece brings new information just when you think, yeah okay I have heard this 100 times.  This is a good one. 

You're welcome :) And yes, it's really interesting, because it give some answers and "backstage" input regarding some excerpts we've seen on Leah's documentary !

Regarding Marty's choice to continue with some tech, I can understand why, because, as I said earlier, some basics things really work (and that's the problem). I've never been a sciento myself -and never will be- but, when I was working for U-Man -and as the only non sciento of the whole staff worldwide (yes !)- I had to follow some sciento organization/management rules, and I still use some of them today, 20 years later, because they're efficient (the tone scale "principle"*, the flux dynamics and the management by statistics, for instance)

*To summarize, I use it to remember that when someone is, for instance, "hostile" towards you, no matter why, you have to "go down" yourself to the tone scale, just one step up the other person, and follow some progressive steps to be able to get both of you to a kind of neutral situation before being able to have a discussion. Common sense, yes, but I still use it in my day to day life. Not exactly as the scientos use it, but I use it.

[cynicat]

1 hour ago, Diane Mars said:

*To summarize, I use it to remember that when someone is, for instance, "hostile" towards you, no matter why, you have to "go down" yourself to the tone scale, just one step up the other person, and follow some progressive steps to be able to get both of you to a kind of neutral situation before being able to have a discussion. Common sense, yes, but I still use it in my day to day life. Not exactly as the scientos use it, but I use it.

For what it's worth, that's a fairly standard tactic in most communication courses that teach how to handle confrontation.  It's a mirroring technique and I agree it works very well.  When it does work, it feels weirdly manipulative.  There's a shock.

[Diane Mars]

Ho, I found this link, while surfing and cross reading links and links... This is a resume of conferences a Israeli sciento gives (gave ?) : http://honoluluaunty.com/notes-from-genius-tour-meir-ezra/.

The author is either a sciento or an innocent victim of this propaganda, but it's a really good resume of what were my days at work in 1989 / 1990 in Switzerland, and it's quite "funny" how many lingo and "catch phrases" I have forgotten since... It'a a kind of wayback machine for me... So no, "funny" is not the right word, more "weird" or "scary"...

It was a weird period in my life, if I think about it right now... At the end on my contract (and finally being re-hired, because of the real reasons of my first "termination"*), my boss was declared a SP (and then an Enemy !), my boss'wife wanted to stay in CO$,

*I learnt that the supposed friend of mine of a d***k collegue was the one who wanted me out of my job (I learnt later that's because I didn't wanted to "enter in Scientology" and that I was an SP too), I uncovered to my boss and his wife that this collegue was trying to rip my boss off of his job, etc... etc.... (ETA something really important here : as long as you lie in order to protect the cult, "disseminate the tech", out a supposed SP, it's not lying that telling lies to people in CO$... Sick weirdos !)

I witnessed harassment from WISE to get more money, my boss finally ended by being "fair gamed" (regarding his sexuality -and no, effing scientos, I was not and never had slept with him, even you wrote and said the opposite- and fertility problems)... I read ethics reports, I had to write some, too... All had to end by "Ceci est la vérité" ("this is the truth").

I never thought about it the way I'm thinking about it now : I was either very lucky to have the boss I had, who was a very bright scientific guy or if THEY (my boss and his wife) who always accepted that, as long as I was doing good and producing a good work, it was OK to be "me", were the lucky ones to have me, with my loud mouth and my "no bullshit" policy, because they finally went out both (my boss in 1990 and he reconnected with his wife 2 years later.) I will ask my ex boss this question the next time I see him, beacuse, once again, I never thought about it that way !

For the records, I ended to recruit him in 1992, when I had my own businness, in order to help him to get back on track. We parted ways a few months later, but he get eventually his life and wife back together. A nice ending story.

Sorry for the long post #mylife.com, because it was absolutely not my intent when I initially copied the link, but all those souvenirs came-back while I pasted it and I feeled the need to share them here (Go away, bad engrams, lol ! )
 

Edited December 28, 2016 by Diane Mars
spelling and grammar...

[Baltimore Betty]

I have watched this series and with each installment I always wondered what if any religions did these people turned to.  It seems that they were all searching for something when they entered Scientology, we know what they found, (insanity, abuse lies, etc...) but did they decide to go more mainstream or did they decide that organized religion is just not what they need.  

[Dobian]

I need to catch this episode after having read Tony Ortega's book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely.  It's important to see that the malicious and criminal practices of this group have a long history and were fully employed against Paulette Cooper back in the early 70's.