Star Trek - General Discussion

[ottoDbusdriver]

2 hours ago, holly4755 said:

well, at a loss where to put this - but happy 50th anniversary Star Trek.  I was watching BBC america and they said they are going to have all the uncut shows n a marathon

Let's hope they show the actual original episodes of TOS - instead of the digitally enhanced versions.  I remember watching the digitally enhanced version of 'The DoomsDay Machine' and the Doomsday machine looked comically bad, and they made it shorter for some stupid reason.

[Cobb Salad]

I'd like BBC America to show the episodes as they aired in 1966-67 too.  I watched the endless reruns in the 70s into the 80s so the original is what I'm used to.  While the new effects look okay to me they look out of place when one considers when the series was made.  The original effects pale in comparison to today's, but does anyone watch Star Trek just for the effects or for a good story?

[Cobb Salad]

Watching "The Changeling" yesterday I was wondering what Kirk thought was inside Nomad until Nomad corrected him - a really tiny being?  Lol.

I'm enjoying "Mirror, Mirror - my favorite line is said by Mr Spock: Your agonizer, please!

[benteen]

Today is the 50th anniversary of the first Star Trek episode The Man Trap.

[hypnotoad]

I've been watching these on BBCAmerica - this is the first time I've ever watched the original series. Anyway, last night an episode played where Spock's parents were onboard the Enterprise. Then today, there was an episode in which the actor who played Spock's dad - played a Romulan. When the Romulan commander was shown on the screen in the ship, everyone looked all shocked and then looked at Spock. I thought we were going to have an episode about Spock's dad doing undercover work. Turns out, the episodes were aired out of order! I guess everyone looked shocked because they were seeing a Romulan, but still pretty funny for this viewer!

Quote

I'm having way too much fun imagining that Spock and Kirk are having a secret a torrid love affair which ends in angry sex at the end of every episode Kirk gets close to any alien of the female persuasion. It's very amusing this way, I keep adding a lot of subtext in my head to almost every dialog. Shatner's inappropriate smoldering most of the time doesn't make this very difficult. And McCoy knows all about it.

I know! I've been cracking up at Shatner's acting in general, but this is so true!

Also, why do Spock and Sulu wear so much purple eye shadow?

[Cobb Salad]

Watch Star Trek: The Motion Picture and you'll see the actor who played Spock's a dad as a Klingon in the Klingon ship that's obliterated by V'ger early in the movie.  

I've been wondering about the eye shadow myself.  Spock can be explained by being from another planet, but Sulu?   It's pretty noticeable in City on The Edge of Forever.

[blueray]

Quote

I guess everyone looked shocked because they were seeing a Romulan, but still pretty funny for this viewer

I was confused by that too. But I guess they just never seen Romulan's before, and were supervised how they look like Vulcans. I remembered right after that they all looked at Spock.

[supposebly]

OK, finished my spotty watch for now. I might get back to it if Netflix leaves it on.

After my initial amusement with season 1, I got overall rather bored with it some time in season 2 and season 3 got worse. I can't really remember much and started skipping quite a lot. I guess I shouldn't have watched so many episodes in one go. And I don't know, people always make fun of Shatner's overacting and it's true but his Kirk can also be quite charming.

I however really can't stand McCoy. I know one shouldn't talk ill of the dead but I think DeForest Kelley's overacting made him often sound like a raging asshole, like a racist with his insistence of human emotion being superior to everything especially pointy-eared Vulcan rationality, and sometimes a terrible misogynist (the way he talks about the woman who is trapped in the ice age of that planet in All Our Yesterdays who Spock fell in love with. Although the latter could be said of the show a lot of times too.

I knew the characters better from the movies and his McCoy was much more likeable in them while Kirk seemed more like a joke. I think it's all in the "hair". As with so many Sci-Fi shows. ;-)

[Peace 47]

On July 31, 2016 at 11:59 PM, supposebly said:

 

It's surprisingly a lot of fun. And now I finally get the whole Kirk/Spock slashing. Holy crap, their chemistry was off the charts! Kirk always invading Spock's personal space, the constant touching, the looks as if he knows something about Spock no one else knows.

I agree with your whole post, especially about this show being surprising fun*, mostly based on the good chemistry of Kirk, Spock and McCoy.  And yes, I completely see why Kirk/Spock is the mother(ship) of all slash pairings and why people latched onto the close, affectionate do-anything-for-each-other bond that they have (and why The Wrath of Khan/ Search for Spock, which I had seen without the benefit of all this context, was such a payoff on their relationship).  "The City on the Edge of Forever" is very sweet when Joan Collins (blew my mind when I read about the episode) mentions that it's clear that Spock's place is forever by Jim's side.  Aww.  (And Joan, whom I had never seen in her youth, is just radiantly sweet in that episode).

*My "surprising fun" explanation:  I'd never seen the show before but people on one of my social media accounts were obssessing over Kirk/Spock all of the sudden the past few months (I guess because of Netflix recently(?) adding it), so I gave it a try, thinking that I would not like it due to it being dated, even though I am a longstanding TNG fan. I've been skipping around episodes and seasons (that's how I roll), so I haven't seen the worst episodes yet.  It being dated doesn't bother me in terms of effects, music, costumes, etc.  It's a fun space adventure in which you can just use your imagination on things like manual switches and also appreciate how they had the foresight to imagine things like iPads.

BUT I will say that the sexism in this show is terrible--truly, truly terrible.  Normally with 60s shows, I just cling to the female empowerment that I can (like Samantha continuing her magic on Bewitched and being her own person not submissive to Darin), but this show is tough because women are so thoroughly portrayed as cowering, emotional, in need of protection and not as smart as the men.  The only high point is Uhura being there as a senior staff officer (who is also black!  even today there's often such a lack of intersectional feminism on TV)  I don't like some of the lines they've put in her mouth about being frightened and whatnot, but what she could do with the role is awesome (and this wasn't a S1 episode, but in the mirror verse episode, she got to be impressively assertive in attacking mirror Spock with the rest of the gang and holding a knife to mirror Sulu).  So I'm a huge Uhura fan already.  That original pilot with Captain Pike looks like it actually might have been better about the sexism, though, with Majel Barrett (sp?) having more of a command position:  at least she got to wear pants and go on away missions!

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

BUT I will say that the sexism in this show is terrible--truly, truly terrible.  Normally with 60s shows, I just cling to the female empowerment that I can (like Samantha continuing her magic on Bewitched and being her own person not submissive to Darin), but this show is tough because women are so thoroughly portrayed as cowering, emotional, in need of protection and not as smart as the men.  The only high point is Uhura being there as a senior staff officer (who is also black!  even today there's often such a lack of intersectional feminism on TV)  I don't like some of the lines they've put in her mouth about being frightened and whatnot, but what she could do with the role is awesome (and this wasn't a S1 episode, but in the mirror verse episode, she got to be impressively assertive in attacking mirror Spock with the rest of the gang and holding a knife to mirror Sulu).  So I'm a huge Uhura fan already.  That original pilot with Captain Pike looks like it actually might have been better about the sexism, though, with Majel Barrett (sp?) having more of a command position:  at least she got to wear pants and go on away missions!

Don't be too rough on the Wardrobe Department regarding the miniskirts.  That was actually Grace Lee Whitney's idea (she told the producers that she had great legs and asked them why she couldn't show them off), and the other actresses also preferred to wear them so they could show off how much they had it going on.  In fact, Nichelle Nichols is often seen in the background trying to hike her skirt up even higher so that viewers can see the goodies even better.

[Peace 47]

15 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Don't be too rough on the Wardrobe Department regarding the miniskirts.  That was actually Grace Lee Whitney's idea (she told the producers that she had great legs and asked them why she couldn't show them off), and the other actresses also preferred to wear them so they could show off how much they had it going on.

I'm ignorant enough of TOS that I had to look up who Grace Lee Whitney was:  Yoeman Rand!  I see that, if Wikipedia is accurate, she claimed that the show got her hooked on diet pills from pressure to fit into the tiny uniforms (and that she was sexually assaulted by an executive on the show), and so I guess "behind the scenes" was no more empowering to women than what took place in front of the camera.

It just surprised me a little bit, watching some (not all) of these episode for the very first time, that a show that in many ways was quite progressive for its time (preaching tolerance, harmony, difference races and creeds working together, etc.) takes such a dim view of women.  I'm probably influenced by having just watched both the episode where Spock's brain is stolen and the very last episode of the series (where any woman who wants to be a captain is a psycho crazy lady).

There is a lot that's really great about this show, though.  I don't mean to discount how enjoyable that it can be.  Shatner has a ton of charm in this role.  He very well conveyed that roguish charm of Kirk's when he is amused:  like that chess game he was playing with Spock in one of the first episodes and he's grinning while telling Spock that Spock plays an irritating game of chess (then escapes from Spock's trap!  haha).

Edited September 28, 2016 by Peace 47

[wknt3]

11 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

I'm ignorant enough of TOS that I had to look up who Grace Lee Whitney was:  Yoeman Rand!  I see that, if Wikipedia is accurate, she claimed that the show got her hooked on diet pills from pressure to fit into the tiny uniforms (and that she was sexually assaulted by an executive on the show), and so I guess "behind the scenes" was no more empowering to women than what took place in front of the camera.

It just surprised me a little bit, watching some (not all) of these episode for the very first time, that a show that in many ways was quite progressive for its time (preaching tolerance, harmony, difference races and creeds working together, etc.) that it takes such a dim view of women.  I'm probably influenced by having just watched both the episode where Spock's brain is stolen and the very last episode of the series (where any woman who wants to be a captain is a psycho crazy lady).

There is a lot that's really great about this show, though.  I don't mean to discount how enjoyable that it can be.  Shatner has a ton of charm in this role.  He very well conveyed that roguish charm of Kirk's when he is amused:  like that chess game he was playing with Spock in one of the first episodes and he's grinning while telling Spock that Spock plays an irritating game of chess (then puts Spock in checkmate!  haha).

Yeah it's definitely there. I think part is the limits of what the network execs could accept (as you noted the original pilot was much more feminist), part is that progressive people often have blind spots (there was a lot of sexism within the Civil Rights Movement itself and plenty of the women who complained about that were homophobic and on and on it goes). Add Shatner's ego as well as the sexism of some of the writers and the fact that they borrowed a lot of stories and tropes from genres that weren't big on women's equality like Westerns. There's a lot of great stuff and a lot of flaws with just about everything in TOS.

Edited September 28, 2016 by wknt3

[AndySmith]

We have to also bear in the mind, it was a show from the 1960s. It was progressive for it's time. Heck, even the sequel shows have elements that seem backwards by today's standards, but were also progressive at the time.

[Peace 47]

So now that I've assuaged my 21st century conscience and expressed my reservations about some of the sexism in the show, what are everyone's favorite S1 episodes?

The Galileo Seven was a really good one.  I liked Kirk having to manage a rescue operation with a hostile bureaucrat hovering over his shoulder, and I liked how he just wasn't ready to give up completely when he was forced to leave the search area, and so he only inches away from the star system and keeps scanning.  That standoff that Kirk has is reminiscent (in my backwards timeline of watching) of how Picard sometimes had to deal with jackasses.  I liked Shatner's immensely relieved but subdued reaction at the end, too, when he heard 5 crew members had been beamed back.  I wonder if he was playing some worry at wondering whether either of his two best friends were dead, since the original crew was 7:  nice bit of acting there.  I liked Spock's Hail Mary play at the end:  he said he didn't believe in angels, but he believed in Kirk and the crew one final time.  Felt awful for him that his team was questioning his every command decision, though, and that two crew members died on his first mission. 

The City on the Edge of Forever was really interesting.  I mentioned it upthread, but Joan Collins a lovely delight in this one.  I really liked McCoy's deadpan disbelief of being in the past while talking to Edith, and I enjoyed the joyful reunion among Bones, Spock and McCoy (until Edith bit the big one). It rang true that they would go nuts seeing each other again in the face of such dire odds.

The pilot fascinates me as the show that never happened.  I did like Majel's role a lot as "No. 1" (love that they brought that nickname back for TNG, too). Captain Pike is an interesting character, too, but pretty tightly wound.  It was probably smart to go with a captain who seemed to enjoy his job for the most part.

I have others, but this post is long enough.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Peace 47

[wknt3]

51 minutes ago, Peace 47 said:

So now that I've assuaged my 21st century conscience and expressed my reservations about some of the sexism in the show, what are everyone's favorite S1 episodes?

The Galileo Seven was a really good one.  I liked Kirk having to manage a rescue operation with a hostile bureaucrat hovering over his shoulder, and I liked how he just wasn't ready to give up completely when he was forced to leave the search area, and so he only inches away from the star system and keeps scanning.  That standoff that Kirk has is reminiscent (in my backwards timeline of watching) of how Picard sometimes had to deal with jackasses.  I liked Spock's Hail Mary play at the end:  he said he didn't believe in angels, but he believed in Kirk and the crew one final time.  Felt awful for him that his team was questioning his every command decision, though, and that two crew members died on his first mission.

The City on the Edge of Forever was really interesting.  I mentioned it upthread, but Joan Collins a lovely delight in this one.  I really liked McCoy's deadpan disbelief of being in the past while talking to Edith, and I enjoyed the joyful reunion among Bones, Spock and McCoy (until Edith bit the big one). It rang true that they would go nuts seeing each other again in the face of such dire odds.

 I don't think it's just assuaging a modern conscience. There were critical voices behind the scenes as well as a growing movement in the world outside. We can criticize, but we need to be aware that it's a product of its time.

I have to agree with you on both episodes. The Galileo Seven does rely on a couple overused TOS tropes - the crew member dying on an away mission and the hostile civilian administrator with command authority, but it uses them very well. And COTEOF is deservedly recognized as a classic. Leonard Nimoy's delivery of "he knows" gets me every time.

[AndySmith]

The City on the Edge of Forever for sure. Others I enjoyed would probably be The Naked Time, The Menagerie I & II, Balance of Terror, and probably Space Seed.

Quote

We can criticize, but we need to be aware that it's a product of its time.

Exactly. If anything, TNG's Code of Honor is even more embarrassing given that it was produced in 1987.

Edited September 28, 2016 by AndySmith

[Peace 47]

I haven't seen all the S2 episodes yet, but I still want to chat about the ones I've seen on Netflix and liked because I'm quite fond of this show.  My Trekker soul no longer belongs only to TNG.

"Amok Time" is an interesting one.  So cliched in talking about arranged marriage and women as property (*cringe*).  But I loved Kirk in this episode.  He disobeys a direct order because Spock has saved his life many times over, and "isn't [Spock's life] worth a career?" And then when Kirk is fighting Spock, and Bones breaks in to tell Kirk that he's going to have to kill Spock to get out of this alive himself, it's such great retort that, even in such dire straits, Kirk plays off as a joke Bones' statement by sarcastically replying that killing Spock is "not exactly what they came to Vulcan for" (effectively pointing out that all this had been done to save Spock, so not an option, not even for his own life).  Kirk's reactions are such an interesting combination of devotion spackled with a veneer of bravado.  Also loved Chekov and Sulu being smartasses about all the back-and-forth on destination.  And the coup de grace is Spock smiling broadly and shouting "Jim!" when he realizes Kirk is alive.  Very sweet.

So cool to see the mirror verse episode that I've seen referenced a million times over in pop culture.  Said this in the other thread, but Uhura is great in this, and although I hate to play into a sexist culture, Nichelle looked amazeballs in this episode.

Really looking forward to getting a chance to watch the Tribbles.

[Peace 47]

I have a question about "The Enemy Within" episode (the one where a transporter snafu splits Kirk into good and evil halves).  At the end of the episode, when Kirk has to get on the transporter pad with his evil self to re-merge, and no one is completely sure that he can survive the process, he says to Spock, "If this doesn't work ....", trails off and Spock looks at him, nods and says, "Understood, Captain."  I'm not sure I followed Kirk's train of thought.  Was Kirk just acknowledging the likelihood of his own death and saying that if he dies, Spock is going to have to take over as captain?

I did like how Bones was looking on with great concern right before the re-merge, and when Kirk notices this, he gives him a reassuring smile and nod.  In pop culture, people will sometimes refer to how Shatner will play certain moments in a "big" way, but I continue to be impressed with his subtlety in many scenes.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Peace 47

[Peace 47]

I'd previously heard S3 ragged on in comparison to S1 and S2, and I would agree that it's not as good, but it's got some gems and some enjoyable scenes.  "The Tholian Web" was excellent insofar as seeing Spock have to balance trying to save Kirk and the ship, and then subsequently having to deal with Kirk's death on both a personal level and as the new captain of the ship.  I found it very affecting that after Spock and Bones listened to Kirk's final message, Bones acknowledged how painful it must be for Spock, and Spock, who can't even look at Bones in that moment, says, "What would you have me say?"  Well-acted by Nimoy and a well-written line, because you feel Spock's pain at losing the person to whom he is closest, but he can't compromise his Vulcan veneer to give voice to his loss, either.  Overall, Bones should have been written up for insubordination in that episode, though (although I was a little unclear as to whether any of his inexcusable behavior towards Spock, his commanding officer, could have been attributed to the beginnings of the space madness affecting some of the crew).

"Turnabout Intruder" is dripping with problematic misogyny, but setting that aside to the extent that one can, I like the way the actress played Kirk-in-Janice's body, and I loved how Kirk-in-Janice's body asserted that Spock knew him better than anyone in the universe and offered up his mind for the meld, which convinced Spock straight away.  The measured, calm resistance that Kirk and Spock offered Lester was interesting (Spock saying that they would offer no physical resistance), and allowed Scotty and Bones to come around to the truth for themselves (although I don't know why they didn't trust Spock right off the bat, given that they know melds and how they work).

When I read the Netflix description of how Abraham Lincoln was going to assist Kirk and Spock in "The Savage Curtain," I thought that episode would be the stupidest of the series, but it was rather enjoyable.  Kirk's massive nerd crush on Lincoln and Spock's deference to Vulcan Jesus were both cute, and a rock, non-humanoid entity (with no concept of human-like morality) as the antagonist was a creative path for the episode.  After being immersed in TNG for years, it was a little weird to see Kahless on the side of history's great villains, although that could be chalked up to the rock entity getting info from the Enterprise's computer, which info was going to be swayed by the then-existing antagonism between the Federation and the Klingon Empire.

"The Empath" was interesting and showed just how devoted Kirk, Spock and Bones are to each other, although Bones knocking his colleagues out left and right is pretty unethical, as Spock said.  For anyone who ships Kirk and Spock, that scene where Spock is looking tenderly at an unconscious Kirk until he sees that Gem is watching him would certainly give one ammo for the cause.  Poor Spock thought that he was going to head off to die and takes a moment to take one last look at Kirk.  "Requiem for Methuselah" also feeds into that a bit at the end, in that Bones is railing on how Spock will never feel love, ever, and will never do stupid, risky things for love, and Spock's immediate response is to do a stupid, risky thing in using telepathy to make Jim forget his grief and ease his pain.

[legaleagle53]

5 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

I have a question about "The Enemy Within" episode (the one where a transporter snafu splits Kirk into good and evil halves).  At the end of the episode, when Kirk has to get on the transporter pad with his evil self to re-merge, and no one is completely sure that he can survive the process, he says to Spock, "If this doesn't work ....", trails off and Spock looks at him, nods and says, "Understood, Captain."  I'm not sure I followed Kirk's train of thought.  Was Kirk just acknowledging the likelihood of his own death and saying that if he dies, Spock is going to have to take over as captain?

Yes.

[Peace 47]

Thanks.  The story of the "The Enemy Within" is interesting, and there's some good story beats in it--Kirk fighting losing his willpower, having to listen to Sulu's team slowly dying on the surface, etc.  It is deeply unsettling, though, in terms of having to watch evil Kirk's attempted rape of Yeoman Rand.

It's good for its time that the show took Rand's charge seriously and forced Kirk to answer to the allegation.  However, the very ending of the show is nothing short of horrendous when Spock comments to Rand that evil Kirk had some "interesting qualities" or whatever he said.  The implication that Rand was attracted to her attempted rapist on the basis of his sexually aggressive qualities (and not because she was already attracted to good Kirk) is just a world full of nope.  (And why would Spock of all people say that to her?)  Terrible ending to an otherwise decent episode.

[AndySmith]

I always assumed the implied ending was that Kirk was who he was due to the balance of qualities - positive and negative - between good Kirk and evil Kirk.

Edited October 24, 2016 by AndySmith

[Peace 47]

I agree that the episode's message was that the combo of qualities ultimately made Kirk who he was, but Spock's remark at the end is implying that Rand was specifically attracted to the "evil" Kirk (or, not evil, but a pile of uncontrolled impulses).  That's why the ending seems particularly painful when viewed through the lens of modern-day sensitivity to issues of sexual assault.

[Helena Dax]

I agree that season 3 isn't as good as season 1 or 2, but you still can find new, interesting ideas. I loved the episode with the Medusian ambassador, it was very far from the usual plots. The Tholian Web is great too and tbh, I love All your yesterdays, especially for that scene where Spock tells McCoy to shut the fuck up with the racial slurs. I like McCoy and I'm not saying he's a bad person, but I've always hated that side of him. His attitude towards Spock's very nasty sometimes. 

On 23/10/2016 at 5:18 PM, Peace 47 said:

  For anyone who ships Kirk and Spock, that scene where Spock is looking tenderly at an unconscious Kirk until he sees that Gem is watching him would certainly give one ammo for the cause.  Poor Spock thought that he was going to head off to die and takes a moment to take one last look at Kirk.  "Requiem for Methuselah" also feeds into that a bit at the end, in that Bones is railing on how Spock will never feel love, ever, and will never do stupid, risky things for love, and Spock's immediate response is to do a stupid, risky thing in using telepathy to make Jim forget his grief and ease his pain.

There are so many moments like that... I've seen canon het couples with less eye-fucking and flirty lines. 

[starri]

If you haven't seen Adam Nimoy's documentary about his dad For the Love of Spock, it's available on Netflix now.

And have some Kleenex.  

[blueray]

I just watched For the Love of Spock. That was a really good documentary :). It's cool how he was able get the footage of his father and of course that he had some interviews already done. I liked that they got most (if not all) of the still living original cast members involved. Good watch, I was glad it was on netflix.

[Peace 47]

Oh my gosh, I just watched "For the Love of Spock," too!  Literally just finished this very minute.  I wasn't sure I wanted to watch it because I've just gotten into (and kind of fallen in love with) TOS this year, and I wasn't really sure that I wanted to get into the details of how the sausage was made, if you know what I mean.  (You start poking around at behind the scenes stuff on shows, find out people are jerks, kind of dampens enjoyment, etc.)

I thought that this was really well-done, though, and for any Star Trek fan, probably a recommended watch, if only for the first part of documentary about the conception and initial design of the Spock character.  Although I'd guess a lot of that ground has been covered in other venues, it was interesting to see it all from the viewpoint of his kids and hear about what Nimoy put into the character.  Also did not know that Jason Alexander is a Star Trek superfan who does a killer Kirk impression:  that made me love him all the more.  (Side note: on YouTube, there are some great videos of an interview Jason Alexander did for ... I think something related to the Emmy organization ... and he's one of the most insightful and frank actors you'll hear interviewed.)

The overall documentary is really a Leonard Nimoy story, first, and a Spock story second.  Adam Nimoy takes a very honest look at his father, and I give him a lot of credit for not sugar coating the more difficult aspects of their relationship.  Even with those difficult moments, the look at who Leonard Nimoy was overall was very affectionate, respectful and loving.  (I felt so bad for Adam that his second wife died of cancer shortly after they married:  cancer is just the worst.  Nice that his father and stepmother were wholly there for him during those last months.)

I'd read that William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy had not spoken during the last few years of Nimoy's life after Shatner had used footage of Nimoy in another documentary without Nimoy's permission.  That didn't come up in this documentary at all, and William Shatner was apparently interviewed specifically for this film.  There was one bit where he looked as though he might have been crying previously when he was telling some other story, and I wondered what that was about.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Peace 47

[MsWausau]

Never watch Star Trek on NetFlix, they used the pimped versions which suck, completely suck. You want to get the real flavor and the real glory of it, rent it from the library or borrow it from a friend who not only had them untouched, but in production order as well.

[MsWausau]

On 10/23/2016 at 8:32 AM, Peace 47 said:

I have a question about "The Enemy Within" episode (the one where a transporter snafu splits Kirk into good and evil halves).  At the end of the episode, when Kirk has to get on the transporter pad with his evil self to re-merge, and no one is completely sure that he can survive the process, he says to Spock, "If this doesn't work ....", trails off and Spock looks at him, nods and says, "Understood, Captain."  I'm not sure I followed Kirk's train of thought.  Was Kirk just acknowledging the likelihood of his own death and saying that if he dies, Spock is going to have to take over as captain?

I did like how Bones was looking on with great concern right before the re-merge, and when Kirk notices this, he gives him a reassuring smile and nod.  In pop culture, people will sometimes refer to how Shatner will play certain moments in a "big" way, but I continue to be impressed with his subtlety in many scenes.

Watching it for forty some years I'm pretty sure that Kirk is telling Spock that if the process didn't work to finish him off and let him go into another dimension. Remember the gruesome scene in Star Trek: The Motion Picture, when the transporter malfunctions and the two die? I don't think Kirk would have ever wanted that to happen to him, so even if Spock was to give him a healthy dose of full phaser Kirk would have been grateful for it.

 

And I agree with you on William Shatner's subtlety. The pause acting is enacted more by Leonard Nimoy than William Shatner. You can tell how much the man loves to act and how he embraced everything about the role. In the very last episode "Turnabout Intruder" Leonard had approach William and bemoaned about how preposterous it was and didn't he feel insulted doing it? William basically scoffed at Leonard and told him he was relishing it.

[MsWausau]

On 10/24/2016 at 3:27 AM, Peace 47 said:

Thanks.  The story of the "The Enemy Within" is interesting, and there's some good story beats in it--Kirk fighting losing his willpower, having to listen to Sulu's team slowly dying on the surface, etc.  It is deeply unsettling, though, in terms of having to watch evil Kirk's attempted rape of Yeoman Rand.

 

Peace, my son is a cable technician and last week the temps here in MN went to -15 below during the day. My son called in the morning and said slowly, "-117, two men unconscious..." And once our laughter had died down I heard him jogging to his truck as he said, "Hang on, I have to phaser some rocks to get some heat in my truck."

What befuddles me about that scene is... why didn't they send down the shuttle craft? I know, I know, it was before they invented the thing, so why didn't Sulu make a tent around some rocks, close it off and then heat the rocks? Spock told him 'survival procedures'... and cuddling in his neoprene blanket sufficed?

[MsWausau]

I think season two has some of the better episodes of all. The Changling is my favorite of all time.

[MsWausau]

On 12/7/2016 at 11:28 AM, starri said:

If you haven't seen Adam Nimoy's documentary about his dad For the Love of Spock, it's available on Netflix now.

And have some Kleenex.  

I've seen it, Starri, but I get the feeling Adam was simply trying to recompense some distasteful issues he had with his father.

I was saddened by Leonard's death, but as much as I was by DeForest's, James or Gene's. I shall truly mourn when William passes away. He was and always shall be, the best part of Star Trek, something that I've been watching since 1972 on a regular basis.

[Driad]

In "Whom Gods Destroy" Spock found two Kirks, one of whom was a shape shifter imitating the captain.  Spock had a phaser. Instead of waiting so long, why didn't Spock just stun both of them?

[Ceindreadh]

On 10/1/2017 at 7:48 PM, MsWausau said:

Peace, my son is a cable technician and last week the temps here in MN went to -15 below during the day. My son called in the morning and said slowly, "-117, two men unconscious..." And once our laughter had died down I heard him jogging to his truck as he said, "Hang on, I have to phaser some rocks to get some heat in my truck."

What befuddles me about that scene is... why didn't they send down the shuttle craft? I know, I know, it was before they invented the thing, so why didn't Sulu make a tent around some rocks, close it off and then heat the rocks? Spock told him 'survival procedures'... and cuddling in his neoprene blanket sufficed?

What puzzles me is why they didn't try beaming supplies down to the planet? Worst case scenario they end up with two of everything! ?

[Cobb Salad]

I was wondering the same thing.  I don't know about when the episode was originally shown, but the "oh no, there's two of them, who is the right one" thing is so cliche.  At least they had some fun with it in ST VI:The Undiscovered Country. 

Edited January 21, 2017 by Cobb Salad

[AndySmith]

It aired long enough ago when it wouldn't have been such a cliche.

[laserlady]

On 1/13/2017 at 3:19 PM, Ceindreadh said:

What puzzles me is why they didn't try beaming supplies down to the planet? Worst case scenario they end up with two of everything! ?

But what if you accidentally sleep in the evil tent or use the evil stove?  Who knows what would happen to you then.

[VCRTracking]

Watching "Space Seed" on MeTV and realizing that Khan was "negging" McGivers.

The definition of "Negging"

Quote

is a rhetorical strategy whereby a person makes a deliberate backhanded compliment or otherwise insulting remark to another person in order to undermine their confidence in a way that gains approval. The term was coined and prescribed by the pickup artist community.

[Ubiquitous]

I haven't watched "Space seed" in years. but wow, was that was sexist! I swear I heard "sploosh!" when the female historian first saw Khan...

Edited February 19, 2017 by Ubiquitous

[rmontro]

I just saw Whom Gods Destroy the other day.  Hokey Smokes, Yvonne Craig was smoking hot as the green chick in that.  I had forgotten what fate she met in that episode however - SPOILER ALERT.

The crazy guy (Captain Garth) who had taken over the asylum took her outside and blew her up.  It was a little comic in some ways.  In fact Kirk seems completely unphased by it, he almost seems to have a little smirk over it.  I was thinking what a waste of resources though.  Here's a planet where there is only ONE woman on it, and she is crazy hot, and you blow her up?  Why not blow up the Andorian or one of the male inmates.  Craig's character was so unstable she was dangerous though, so maybe that was part of it.

[blueray]

I just watched All our yesterday's for the first time. That is a really good episode. I love that Spock got the girl and found the whole time travel aspect interesting in this episode. It is actually the only episode in the whole franchise to discuss the concept of the characters "reverting" back to what their ancestors were like during that time period they traveled too. I know there is that dumb TNG episode, but this different as Spock is showing more mental signs as oppose to any physical changes which result in him showing emotions and eating meat. Overall I loved this episode, though I have to admit I was far more interested in the Spock and Mocoy story than Kirk's boring storyline. Seriously how many times to they show the "common" villager stereotype in this show. But putting that aside this would be only my list of best TOS episodes.

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, blueray said:

I just watched All our yesterday's for the first time. That is a really good episode. I love that Spock got the girl and found the whole time travel aspect interesting in this episode. It is actually the only episode in the whole franchise to discuss the concept of the characters "reverting" back to what their ancestors were like during that time period they traveled too. I know there is that dumb TNG episode, but this different as Spock is showing more mental signs as oppose to any physical changes which result in him showing emotions and eating meat. Overall I loved this episode, though I have to admit I was far more interested in the Spock and Mocoy story than Kirk's boring storyline. Seriously how many times to they show the "common" villager stereotype in this show. But putting that aside this would be only my list of best TOS episodes.

You should check out the novel "Yesterday's Son," which was a very popular sequel to this episode and introduced us to the son that Spock unknowingly had with Zarabeth.  It not only explains the origins of Zarabeth's people, but also reveals who built the Guardian of Forever and why.

[SmithW6079]

On 5/8/2017 at 0:28 AM, legaleagle53 said:

You should check out the novel "Yesterday's Son," which was a very popular sequel to this episode and introduced us to the son that Spock unknowingly had with Zarabeth.  It not only explains the origins of Zarabeth's people, but also reveals who built the Guardian of Forever and why.

I read that ages ago, and as I recall, it was very good. The author is AC Crispin, who wrote several Trek novels, including another sequel. She also wrote the novelization of the "V" miniseries. 

[johnar]

On 4/19/2014 at 7:23 PM, starri said:

If they're going to continue to crib from the classic series in order to tell stories in the reboot universe, I really hope they consider doing an update of "Balance of Terror."

It's a nearly 50-year-old hour of television that I've seen multiple times, and it still brings me to the edge of my seat.  People remember "The City of the Edge of Forever" as being the absolute best of TOS, but not for me.

Wow. A kindred spirit!

All our Yesterdays was far better than CEF. And it was far less $$$

This is where I get into life and death arguments with canon purists...

Never seen a Romulan before

and

the Romulan War was fought with sublight ships

and

the Romulan warbird was sublight

This is what I keep trying to tell purists they were inventing things as they went along.

Some things worked well and were almost prophetic. 

Others, not so much.

Take the Feringi laser whips for example.

Only if you're into 24th century S & M... ouch   

[johnar]

The musical scoring also had a lot to do with the mood and participation of the audience.

Sol Kaplan's score of DOOMSDAY MACHINE remains one of the all time greats in every category.

Edited September 9, 2017 by johnar

[kassygreene]

Balance of Terror was terrific.  It was drawn from a film called The Enemy Below, which was also terrific.

[Lebanna]

I'll just be honest, I really, really don't want this to be true:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/11/george-takei-responds-to-accusation-he-sexually-assaulted-a-young-actor

Come on, I believe Anthony Rapp, so I can't just disbelieve this, but it hurts. (Don't let something like this come out about anyone else in Star Trek, please.)

[Captain Carrot]

On 11/11/2017 at 2:37 PM, Lebanna said:

I'll just be honest, I really, really don't want this to be true:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/11/george-takei-responds-to-accusation-he-sexually-assaulted-a-young-actor

Come on, I believe Anthony Rapp, so I can't just disbelieve this, but it hurts. (Don't let something like this come out about anyone else in Star Trek, please.)

I don't want it to be true either, and I have to admit I've thought up a lot or rationalizations to 'protect' Takei. (The best case scenario I came up with is that both of them were really drunk with flawed memories of that night, and I find that highly unlikely).

That being the said, I did the same thing with the initial Cosby allegations. I'm not going to make the same mistake of assuming the allegations are false because this is an actor that I've always liked.

[legaleagle53]

Here's something you might all enjoy:  Nine proposed Star Trek spinoffs/sequels that never saw the light of day

Assignment:Earth was a missed opportunity, if you ask me.  Gary Seven and Roberta Lincoln could have been the American Dr. Who and Rose!

[Pippin]

Space is running all of the Trek series right now, and I've been watching all of them (except Voyager -- ugh!) when I can.

Recently, saw The Man Trap (the salt vampire) episode again, and I belatedly realized that Kirk and Co. killed a sentient being -- they killed a person, not a beast.  The salt vampire was self-aware and its ancestors had built up a civilization.  It was not a mindless animal (and even if it was, killing the last of its kind would be unacceptable by today's standards.)  Yes, it committed murder, but couldn't they have tried, oh, I don't know -- anything else?  After all, isn't capital punishment a thing of the past as far as the Federation is concerned?

Made me wonder what later captains  would have done.