Joy and Austin: This One Time At Family Camp

[leighdear]

Since Joy is touting her affiliate program with PatPat on her Insta, and showing off the family PJ's they're all wearing, I assume somebody has reported to their social media folks that not only is she a proud Parler poster, she & her husband subscribe to the violent "Pearl" method of discipline for their small children. 

I can't imagine the business owners really want them shilling their mainstream, cutsie and family-friendly duds.  

[Westiepeach]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

It would be nice to think one of the sisters, or Michelle, called her first to say they were filming and some pics may end up on SM, so she knows its not an event they're excluding her from.

Oh please. Do you really think Michelle is going to come out of her Xanax haze and care? I doubt she really realizes Jill is even her daughter anymore. My vote is a sister clued her in.

[Totally]

I just don’t see Gideon as being disciplined in the manner of the pearls, he seems to have too much mischievous spirit in him 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Totally

[Future Cat Lady]

I don't think Jill is excluded because she's less fundie. It's because her husband spoke badly of the family.

[madpsych78]

I don't know, my money is on Jana being the most judgmental about Jill's changes. She's firmly entrenched in JB and Michelle's world. 

But I totally agree that Jessa is probably one of the siblings who is supportive of Jill.

I think the big wildcard is Jinger. There are some things about her that are mainstream and similar to Jill, yet other things that are very, very different.

[BitterApple]

3 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

 

I think the big wildcard is Jinger. There are some things about her that are mainstream and similar to Jill, yet other things that are very, very different.

Jinger strikes me as not caring one way or the other. She was never close to Jill to begin with and her entire world revolves around JereMe. 

[Zella]

23 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

I don't think Jill is excluded because she's less fundie. It's because her husband spoke badly of the family.

I think you're right. I am sure that Jim Bob and Michelle are not happy about some of the things Jill is doing (I'm sure Izzy going to public school was not well received), but I'm not sure that sort of a break from the family ideology would have even happened if Derick hadn't been so openly antagonistic about his in-laws, specifically his father-in-law. I think Derick would have been quietly tolerated if he himself would have stayed quiet. The fact Derick hasn't been photographed at any of the events that Jill has been to suggests to me he is absolutely not welcome anymore. 

It wouldn't surprise me if the Duggars had the attitude of "You took sides against the family!" Like The Godfather Part II, except for, you know, the "I love you" part of that conversation. LOL

7 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

But I totally agree that Jessa is probably one of the siblings who is supportive of Jill.

I don't believe for a minute that Jessa is supportive of Jill's decision to break away. I don't think I've ever seen her show even a modicum of interest in any of her siblings. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Zella

[crazy8s]

22 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

I don't think Jill is excluded because she's less fundie. It's because her husband spoke badly of the family.

I think this as well - for all their leave and cleave blathering and the husband is the headship, Jill is doing exactly what they preach she should be doing.

It is only because derick went to a lawyer to get show money, quit the show/got fired from the show and had the nerve to speak against king JB

in the kingdom of jb you are loyal to him and under his control always or you are the enemy.

[katycat74]

The Duggars just posted pics from their big holiday party, no Dillards in sight in any of the pictures..

[emmawoodhouse]

1 hour ago, katycat74 said:

The Duggars just posted pics from their big holiday party, no Dillards in sight in any of the pictures..

Pics are posted on the Boobchelle thread. 

[absnow54]

I still lean toward Jill’s absence being due to filming. She was at Joy’s baby shower over the summer, and they went shopping together recently too. Most likely Jill is absent when the camera crew is around because there’s animosity between her and the show. Or it might be one of the terms of the payout she received. 

[emmawoodhouse]

14 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I still lean toward Jill’s absence being due to filming. She was at Joy’s baby shower over the summer, and they went shopping together recently too. Most likely Jill is absent when the camera crew is around because there’s animosity between her and the show. Or it might be one of the terms of the payout she received. 

Possibly. But they film around Smuggar all the time. 

[SMama]

Why is Michelle there, she’s not a sister no matter what she thinks.

is that Ivy’s only freaking outfit?

[emmawoodhouse]

3 minutes ago, SMama said:

Why is Michelle there, she’s not a sister no matter what she thinks.

is that Ivy’s only freaking outfit?

Meech's presence is why I think they were filming. 

[SMama]

Way to sneak back into the show.

[emmawoodhouse]

5 minutes ago, SMama said:

Way to sneak back into the show.

She and her consort wormed their way back onto the show a couple of years ago. The show is basically back to the 19 Kids format. Several plots take place at the TTH. 😞

[awaken]

8 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Someone should post and ask Joy where her bestfriend Jill is.

I will!

6 hours ago, Totally said:

I just don’t see Gideon as being disciplined in the manner of the pearls, he seems to have too much mischievous spirit in him 

 

Well, she gave me an eyeroll when I asked, so make what you will of that. 

[Kellyee]

Quote

I don't think Jill is excluded because she's less fundie. It's because her husband spoke badly of the family.

I think Jill is estranged from the family because Jim Bob demanded it. And I think Jim Bob is only mad because Jill got a lawyer and demanded fair pay from her time on the show. I think this all comes back to money, and Jill being unwilling to repent and crawl back to Jim Bob like Josh did.

 

 

[GeeGolly]

7 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Possibly. But they film around Smuggar all the time. 

I think its likely complicated depending on the event, but Jill and Derick opted out of the show, Josh was basically fired.

Jill would look a little hypocritical at this point, to show up where the camera crew is filming.  Also, Jill might not want to go to the big family gatherings, like the sweater party, without Derick. And, in addition to JB's feelings, she might find it uncomfortable to be there knowing that he and some of her siblings are judging her.

Whatever the reasons are, and like I mentioned there's probably many, this must be really hard for Jill.

As for the Duggar Clan, no matter the reasons, its certainly makes them look bad. I guess JB found the edge where his assholish pride comes before his image.

[laurakaye]

13 hours ago, crazy8s said:

in the kingdom of jb you are loyal to him and under his control always or you are the enemy.

What about Jeremy, though - he took Jing away to the big city and turned her into this shorts wearing blonde-highlighted wannabe influencer accessory wife.  Is Boob intimidated by Jeremy because of his connections?  I haven't watched this show in ages but I do remember there being some weird tension between Jere and Boob when he was courting Jing.  Maybe Jere hasn't spoken out against the mighty JB in the way that Derick has but I get the definite sense that Jere has no intention of ever kowtowing to his father-in-law.  JB can't be okay with that.

[ozziemom]

27 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

What about Jeremy, though - he took Jing away to the big city and turned her into this shorts wearing blonde-highlighted wannabe influencer accessory wife.  Is Boob intimidated by Jeremy because of his connections?  I haven't watched this show in ages but I do remember there being some weird tension between Jere and Boob when he was courting Jing.  Maybe Jere hasn't spoken out against the mighty JB in the way that Derick has but I get the definite sense that Jere has no intention of ever kowtowing to his father-in-law.  JB can't be okay with that.

JerMe is not as vocal as Dreck was about Boob and TLC. So Boob can pretend that all is well with the Vuolo’s. Plus Jingle isn’t dropping by TTH anytime soon. I think Boob really believes Jill might have some influence over her buddies and not what he would consider a good influence so she has to ask permission to visit. 

[Albanyguy]

14 hours ago, Zella said:

I don't believe for a minute that Jessa is supportive of Jill's decision to break away. I don't think I've ever seen her show even a modicum of interest in any of her siblings. 

And Jessa is well aware of which side her bread is buttered on. If Jim Bob ostracizes Jill, then Jessa will be right behind him.

[Minivanessa]

I agree with most of the above. As with family stuff, it's probably complicated, lol.

Josh isn't wanted by TLC - but he's still his mother's favorite, and hasn't rebelled against JB's power and control. He came home from DC with his tail between his legs, did his time in Jesus Jail, and hasn't made waves ever since. His Croc-shod feet are not straying from JB's world. I'm sure if the producer dared to even suggest that Josh not be present when they were shooting footage, JB and Michelle would have had hissy fits. So he got shot around and blurred out as needed.

Jill's husband did that stupid ignorant Twitter flameout over Jazz which put him squarely into the outs with TLC. Ironically, the opinions he expressed in those awful tweets are probably shared by JB, so any heartburn they gave JB was about endangering the Duggars' relationship with TLC. I don't know how that stupid losing tweet-war aligned, timewise, with Derick's insisting that JB account for Jill's earnings from the show. We do know that at the end, the Dillards were off the show, they hired a lawyer, Jill got some money (and if it let them buy a new house, even a starter home, free and clear, that's some cash), Jill [and I'm sure Derick] were banned from the TTH unless with JB's express consent, and Derick had surfaced from his deep dive into the fundamental evangelical world. 

Josh, the Crown Prince, merely sexually violated tiny children, cheated on his wife, joined Ashley Madison with a phony profile, and got into viewing porn. 

Jill's' headship butted heads with JB, challenged JB's complete control over his chlidren's finances, and created a public stink by warring with TLC. No sexual assaults, infidelity, or porn involved.

I'm sure if JB and Meech got their way, Josh would be again gracing TV screens with his talking heads that earned him the moniker Smuggar. Because, priorities - and we know which of the above is the most unforgivable sin.

[Ljohnson1987]

Smuggar should never grace our television screens. Anna should open her eyes, and see that she's better off without him. Yeah, she'd be losing the family, and her meal ticket, but she had family members who offered to help, and she turned them down. 

 

Jill is amazing to say F this, and do what was best for her family. She doesn't need her family. She has Derick's. 

 

J'Chelle and Bloob are too blind to see that what happened was not properly handled. And that their daughters suffered as a result. Why protect the Golden Child? What did Josh do for them that was so great?

[MargeGunderson]

19 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

I don't think Jill is excluded because she's less fundie. It's because her husband spoke badly of the family.

And that Derick and Jill sued JB for money that Jill wasn’t paid for being on the show. That’s got to make for an uncomfortably family dinner. 

[Future Cat Lady]

22 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

And that Derick and Jill sued JB for money that Jill wasn’t paid for being on the show. That’s got to make for an uncomfortably family dinner. 

You know what? I can't blame JB for not wanting Derrick around. Anyone in that position would do the same. If you spill family secrets and bad mouth the family, don't expect to be invited to dinner!

Jeremy and Jinger's situation is completely different. I'm pretty certain that Jeremy sees JB as beneath him, but he wants to be on TV so he's going to play nice. 

Again, I don't think that the rift is because they're not quiverfull or Gothard followers. Derrick and Jeremy never were and they still married the Duggar girls.

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Future Cat Lady

[Zella]

4 hours ago, laurakaye said:

What about Jeremy, though - he took Jing away to the big city and turned her into this shorts wearing blonde-highlighted wannabe influencer accessory wife.  Is Boob intimidated by Jeremy because of his connections?  I haven't watched this show in ages but I do remember there being some weird tension between Jere and Boob when he was courting Jing.  Maybe Jere hasn't spoken out against the mighty JB in the way that Derick has but I get the definite sense that Jere has no intention of ever kowtowing to his father-in-law.  JB can't be okay with that.

I think Jeremy's differences from the Duggars are largely cosmetic--he doesn't seem to disagree with a lot of their fundamental beliefs, and the differences are mostly surface level. And he has never endangered the gravy train. 

I don't think Jeremy and JB like each other, but I think that's primarily rooted in them both being self-centered assholes with big egos. I think they're a lot more alike than not. 

[crazy8s]

also JB abides having Jeremy around because Jer and Jing are keeping the Duggar brand and name out there in the media. for good or bad, every article about them starts with "Jinger Duggar.....  Jinger Duggar's husband, Jinger Duggar and her husband......

[BigBingerBro]

1 hour ago, Future Cat Lady said:

Jeremy and Jinger's situation is completely different. I'm pretty certain that Jeremy sees JB as beneath him, but he wants to be on TV so he's going to play nice. 

Yes.  Jermy is not going to rock the boat as long as he has an ounce of fame to hold onto.  The minute this show ends, I forsee him trying desperately for the "breakout" stars to stay relevant, but i dount he's going to continue to bow to Boob much after that.

[Tikichick]

7 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Jill's husband did that stupid ignorant Twitter flameout over Jazz which put him squarely into the outs with TLC. Ironically, the opinions he expressed in those awful tweets are probably shared by JB, so any heartburn they gave JB was about endangering the Duggars' relationship with TLC. I don't know how that stupid losing tweet-war aligned, timewise, with Derick's insisting that JB account for Jill's earnings from the show. We do know that at the end, the Dillards were off the show, they hired a lawyer, Jill got some money (and if it let them buy a new house, even a starter home, free and clear, that's some cash), Jill [and I'm sure Derick] were banned from the TTH unless with JB's express consent, and Derick had surfaced from his deep dive into the fundamental evangelical world. 

 

This shines a spotlight on another aspect of the hypocrisy of JB.    Don't work for other people because they may be evil and ungodly, only work for yourself or family.    Yet he pimped out himself and all 19 of those kids he was always so proudly counting to an evil network employer.

I guess there are different considerations when it involves an income stream flowing directly to JB's control that is generated essentially on the backs of most everyone but JB.   Then the standards of who it's okay to accept a paycheck from magically shift.

[floridamom]

Derick and Jill should never have had to sue Jim Bob for Jill's fair share of her TV money in the first place. Her father should have been financially honest in sharing the income with his adult children AND should have and should be putting funds in the minor childrens' bank accounts for THEIR future. Jim Bob doesn't want to divide up the income...he would not net himself and Michelle enough money to continue the show. I think that's why he 'gives the adult kids gifts' for their compensation....Much cheaper than actually paying them their fair share episode per episode. Whatever Jim Bob and Michelle do, they always want to come out on the top. Selfish parents who are robbing their children...all of them IMO.

[GeeGolly]

5 hours ago, floridamom said:

Derick and Jill should never have had to sue Jim Bob for Jill's fair share of her TV money in the first place. Her father should have been financially honest in sharing the income with his adult children AND should have and should be putting funds in the minor childrens' bank accounts for THEIR future. Jim Bob doesn't want to divide up the income...he would not net himself and Michelle enough money to continue the show. I think that's why he 'gives the adult kids gifts' for their compensation....Much cheaper than actually paying them their fair share episode per episode. Whatever Jim Bob and Michelle do, they always want to come out on the top. Selfish parents who are robbing their children...all of them IMO.

I agree, to a point. I think JB & M are robbing their children of learning how to be independent self-sustaining adults. But I think the kids are getting their fair share of TLC money and probably more. JB has grown whatever money they've made from the show and none of the kids, adult and minors, seem to lack for anything. I don't know exactly what went down with Derick, but Joy, Jinger, Lauren, Abbie and Kendra all had hospital births and Jessa was transported to the hospital twice. None of them seem to be hurting for money.

I really think Derick got too big for his britches and got into a pissing contest, first with TLC and then JB. He may think he won, but I think Jill is still struggling with how everything went down.

To bring this back to Joy and Austin - they had three hospital births. Somehow those bills have been paid.

Edited December 19, 2020 by GeeGolly

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I agree, to a point. I think JB & M are robbing their children of learning how to be independent self-sustaining adults. But I think the kids are getting their fair share of TLC money

He pays them off to remain infantilized and in his image. 

 

[Kellyee]

Quote

He pays them off to remain infantilized and in his image. 

Jim Bob pays them, so he maintains control over them. I really think with Jim Bob it's all about control. They can't go to school, and they end up working for Jim Bob or one of his friends. I think part of why Jill is on the outs is that they really walked away from letting Jim Bob control what they were doing. Austin seems to want to be independent, as does Jeremy. I can't figure out what the hell Ben does, and all the Duggar brothers work for Jim Bob. I think Joy, Jill, and Jinger all mostly follow their husbands lead, while Jessa seems to be the more assertive person in her marriage.

 

 

 

 

[BigBingerBro]

36 minutes ago, Kellyee said:

I can't figure out what the hell Ben does

When Jordan was visiting the Breakout Stars in LA, Jermy interviewed her for his podcast and she pretty much confirmed that Ben is the head "teacher" at the TTH SOTDRT.  One can assume that he most likely brings his own kids and also teaches the M kids living in the warehouse annex.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Kellyee said:

Jim Bob pays them, so he maintains control over them. I really think with Jim Bob it's all about control. They can't go to school, and they end up working for Jim Bob or one of his friends. I think part of why Jill is on the outs is that they really walked away from letting Jim Bob control what they were doing. Austin seems to want to be independent, as does Jeremy. I can't figure out what the hell Ben does, and all the Duggar brothers work for Jim Bob. I think Joy, Jill, and Jinger all mostly follow their husbands lead, while Jessa seems to be the more assertive person in her marriage.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I agree. 

That's why I call them infantilized. They're controlled by somebody else forever (and therefore living their lives like he does, because their controller is a fearful guy who's scared shitless of the world outside his own head and of all the different-from-him-even-by-a-little-bit people who live there, so anybody he controls will therefore be just like him.)  -- And that pretty much prevents you from becoming an adult.....or even a teenager, to some extent. 😁

You get zero practice in behaving like an actual adult if you're somebody else's little robot (even if being a robot is basically your job because you're getting paid to behave that way). 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Churchhoney

[madpsych78]

Here's the thing I keep going back to:

After 19 Kids, the show was initially called Jill and Jessa: Counting On. JB and Michelle were hardly on the show in those days. You would think that the ones primarily negotiating the contracts would be the Dillards and the Seewalds, when the show was in that incarnation. So if JB was still the one negotiating the contracts and taking the pay, then I could understand Derick being royally pissed, and IMHO Ben and Jessa should have been royally pissed as well but they were too oblivious.  

Now - with that said - I don't know exactly how the contract plays out, but I think it is fair to say that not all adult kids get the same amount of screen time, and I could imagine the contract becoming really complicated if compensation was based on screen time. So I could see how JB, with the agreement of (most) adult kids, thought it would be easiest for the compensation to go to one spot and then to funnel it out. I also don't know if separate contracts would simplify things, especially with so many adult sub-families being featured. With Justin/Claire that is soon to be 9 families if you count Anna and her kids as well as JB and Michelle.

[Zella]

If I were TLC, I wouldn't want to deal with a contract for every couple. 

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

Here's the thing I keep going back to:

After 19 Kids, the show was initially called Jill and Jessa: Counting On. JB and Michelle were hardly on the show in those days. You would think that the ones primarily negotiating the contracts would be the Dillards and the Seewalds, when the show was in that incarnation. So if JB was still the one negotiating the contracts and taking the pay, then I could understand Derick being royally pissed, and IMHO Ben and Jessa should have been royally pissed as well but they were too oblivious.  

Now - with that said - I don't know exactly how the contract plays out, but I think it is fair to say that not all adult kids get the same amount of screen time, and I could imagine the contract becoming really complicated if compensation was based on screen time. So I could see how JB, with the agreement of (most) adult kids, thought it would be easiest for the compensation to go to one spot and then to funnel it out. I also don't know if separate contracts would simplify things, especially with so many adult sub-families being featured. With Justin/Claire that is soon to be 9 families if you count Anna and her kids as well as JB and Michelle.

But Derick didn't become royally pissed until 2+ years later. So whatever the deal was, he was fine with it initially. 

[emmawoodhouse]

5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

But Derick didn't become royally pissed until 2+ years later. So whatever the deal was, he was fine with it initially. 

Derelict was also guzzling the kool aid back then. He looked at Boob as a mentor. Of course, that relationship totally hit the skids about the time Derelict started law school. I think his first course in Contracts taught him a thing or two and BOOM! went the dynamite. 

[MargeGunderson]

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

But Derick didn't become royally pissed until 2+ years later. So whatever the deal was, he was fine with it initially. 

Yep, he was. But then there were medical bills from one of the kid’s birth, he and Jill flamed out from being missionaries, he spent a year getting some sort of Bible certificate (and not working, as I recall), and then decided to go to law school. They needed money, so they went after what Derick thought should have been Jill’s/theirs all along. While I do appreciate anyone going after JB, it does seem to me like Derick was fine with everything until the money wasn’t enough to pay all of their bills, and then called foul. I wonder what would happen if I went to my job and said they should have been paying me more the last 5 years, even though I agreed to my terms of employment? 

 

[satrunrose]

I think the question for me is how is money distributed in the Duggar family? If they're splitting up the pot fairly equally (like a salary) and Jill and Derrick couldn't pay the bills, especially with D's penchant for pricy schooling, then yeah, that's likely on the Dillards. But if JB controls it all and doles it out like an allowance, then I would say that it's more like agreeing to terms and then finding out that those terms broke every labour law in the book. Jill wouldn't have the experience to know whether she was being exploited and Derrick's jobs before Jill (Pistol Pete and undercover missionary) may or may not have set him up to know what was or wasn't okay (despite his accountant training). 

[awaken]

On 12/17/2020 at 11:57 PM, awaken said:

I will!

Well, she gave me an eyeroll when I asked, so make what you will of that. 

Wow. Quoting myself here. She unfollowed me after that!  I just asked if they support the Pearls’ methods. I wouldn’t think that was controversial in fundie-land!

[awaken]

12 hours ago, BigBingerBro said:

When Jordan was visiting the Breakout Stars in LA, Jermy interviewed her for his podcast and she pretty much confirmed that Ben is the head "teacher" at the TTH SOTDRT.  One can assume that he most likely brings his own kids and also teaches the M kids living in the warehouse annex.

What exactly did jordyn say about Ben being their teacher?  I won’t add to their numbers by listening. Plus I’d be so nauseous listening to his smug voice I couldn’t get through it. 

[emmawoodhouse]

10 minutes ago, awaken said:

Wow. Quoting myself here. She unfollowed me after that!  I just asked if they support the Pearls’ methods. I wouldn’t think that was controversial in fundie-land!

You mean she blocked you? At any rate, I learned early on not to engage these idiots. Jessa blocked me for an innocuous comment that she apparently found offensive. This happened on the post she made kissing Ben on their honeymoon to promote straight marriage.

[awaken]

Oh yeah duh. She blocked me 🙂 I didn’t say anything inflammatory. 

[lascuba]

On 12/18/2020 at 1:39 PM, Future Cat Lady said:

You know what? I can't blame JB for not wanting Derrick around. Anyone in that position would do the same. If you spill family secrets and bad mouth the family, don't expect to be invited to dinner!

Jeremy and Jinger's situation is completely different. I'm pretty certain that Jeremy sees JB as beneath him, but he wants to be on TV so he's going to play nice. 

Again, I don't think that the rift is because they're not quiverfull or Gothard followers. Derrick and Jeremy never were and they still married the Duggar girls.

 

As a bystander, I'm a big fan of dirty-laundry sharing. But you're absolutely right...if you talk shit, it's perfectly reasonable for the subject of your shit-talking to not want you around. It's like back when Amy was making the tabloid rounds going on and on about the family. At one point, Jessa had randomly reposted pictures of her wedding right when Amy had first posted her wedding pictures, and of course the Duggar-sphere all assumed it was deliberate and complained that it was a horrible thing to steal Amy's thunder. But I just couldn't understand the outrage. I 100% agreed with everything Amy was saying about her uncle and cousins. And I think it was a shitty thing for to say all that publicly while still trying ride their coattails to fame.

And while Derick might not be welcome, Jill has appeared on the show multiple times (for a few of the birth specials, iirc) since Derick rage-quit. She's hasn't been ostracized for all the superficial changes she's made--most of the public fundies have been moving to pants-wearing, etc. for years now. It's about the money and public call outs...mostly the public call outs, I'll bet, and it's not unreasonable for several family members to be upset about that.

11 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

Here's the thing I keep going back to:

After 19 Kids, the show was initially called Jill and Jessa: Counting On. JB and Michelle were hardly on the show in those days. You would think that the ones primarily negotiating the contracts would be the Dillards and the Seewalds, when the show was in that incarnation. So if JB was still the one negotiating the contracts and taking the pay, then I could understand Derick being royally pissed, and IMHO Ben and Jessa should have been royally pissed as well but they were too oblivious.  

Now - with that said - I don't know exactly how the contract plays out, but I think it is fair to say that not all adult kids get the same amount of screen time, and I could imagine the contract becoming really complicated if compensation was based on screen time. So I could see how JB, with the agreement of (most) adult kids, thought it would be easiest for the compensation to go to one spot and then to funnel it out. I also don't know if separate contracts would simplify things, especially with so many adult sub-families being featured. With Justin/Claire that is soon to be 9 families if you count Anna and her kids as well as JB and Michelle.

That was always just a cover because TLC had to pretend that they actually cancelled the show. There's not a doubt in my mid that TLC called JB to tell him that they were going to announce cancellation, but don't worry, thy were working on a new name, and while he and Michelle would have to lay low for a while, they'll gradually work them back in.

On 12/17/2020 at 6:28 PM, madpsych78 said:

I don't know, my money is on Jana being the most judgmental about Jill's changes. She's firmly entrenched in JB and Michelle's world. 

But I totally agree that Jessa is probably one of the siblings who is supportive of Jill.

I think the big wildcard is Jinger. There are some things about her that are mainstream and similar to Jill, yet other things that are very, very different.

I agree that Jana would be the most judgmental. Joy as well, though not necessarily about the specifics like pants and nose-rings, but the lack of loyalty to JB and family industry/"ministry."

I think Jessa doesn't care enough about what other people do to be judgmental.

Jinger woul be fine with it all,  but I always got the sense that she disliked Jill even more than the other oldest siblings do/did, (with good reason, because Jill was an overbearing asshole when she lived at the TTH). And now with Jeremy's whole aesthetic, the distance between her and Jill has grown even more. It's not worth it to be supportive.

[GeeGolly]

I think TLC was between a rock and a hard place after scandal #1 hit. If they cancelled the show they were punishing 4 survivors, yet they couldn't keep Josh on the air and they were hearing the hate and blame toward JB & M. Plus this show made TLC money. I think TLC cares much more about their own reputation and money than they do about the families they film. Creating Jill and Jessa Counting On, checked TLC's boxes by keeping the money coming in and not punishing victims of sexual assault. I'm guessing once TLC realized how boring they were even, with Jinger's courtship in the works, they tested the waters by featuring more siblings and letting JB & M appear here and there. 

Then there was Derick. I'm not sure when they dropped Jill and Jessa from the name, but the rumblings of Derick may have had something to do with it.

JB may have power over his adult children through finances and some unearned respect, but I don't think he holds any power with TLC or is highly respected by them.

Personally I think TLC made the right decision. The girls did nothing wrong and cancelling the show would have punished them for something their brother did and for what many believe their parents didn't do.

[Chicklet]

I don't think it's fair to judge Jill for being the tattletale of the family, her parents created that role and supported it for her. Should she still be doing it now would be another story.

I like Jill, well I don't fangirl all over her but she's not the most odious person I know of. What kids do as kids and what adults do as adults is what matters.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Chicklet

[Minivanessa]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I think TLC cares much more about their own reputation and money than they do about the families they film. . . .

JB may have power over his adult children through finances and some unearned respect, but I don't think he holds any power with TLC or is highly respected by them.

I agree - TLC is all about the ratings and the PR and the money. TLC is a corporation and the bottom line is everything. Reputation and ratings drive the bottom line. The people who work at TLC may love or hate the on-air talent, but their decisions about programming are revenue-driven. I think they did tread carefully after Joshgate; I don't know if just cancelling the show would have been a PR disaster for TLC but they pulled off a slick little balancing act with the nominal re-branding. 

I also agree that JB has little clout with TLC. The folks at TLC probably think he's damned lucky that his family show is still on their schedule after his handling of the molestations was revealed and the show became radioactive for advertisers at least for awhile. TLC was left holding a vault full of old 19K&C etc. episodes that they can't air as lucrative income-generating repeats, because - Josh. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Jeeves