S07.E01: Stronger Than Ever

[WireWrap]

27 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I can't think of an example where someone has had to break down words for Kyle but I do think she knows words have meaning and depending on the speaker there can be consequences.  I think Kyle can use words that hurt-apparently, "insecure" triggered Camille into outer space.  I think what Kyle has working against her most of all is she is not terribly funny and she laughs at her own jokes.  LVP on the other hand can handle a punch line, it may be at someone else's expense but she can deliver. 

When Kyle was on WWHL this week it was interesting she was asked who she was in contact with-not Yolanda.  I do believe Yolanda never liked Kyle, Kyle tried and it was time to move on.  She has also said she doesn't hit it off with Eden Sassoon.  That might be interesting.  I would be more interested to hear how often Yolanda and Kim (Yolanda's big supporter) communicate.

To me, LVP and Kyle have far more in common than the others.  Hard working husbands, both hold down a number of jobs and the entertaining usually falls on the two of them.  This year may change with the first two parties being elsewhere-although Erika's seemed to be a big dud. 

One example was last season, at the final dinner on their Dubai trip, Lisa tried to explain what she said/meant, Kyle heard the words but did not understand the meaning, she could not wrap her head around it, in other words, Kyle is straight forward in/with her words, she doesn't gasp semantics very well at all.

Yolanda never really liked any of them, not just Kyle, unless she could use them (Brandi/Kim/Erika/Eileen). I really doubt that Erika and Eileen have kept in contact with Yolanda beyond tweets. I don't see them having dinner with her when she happens to be in town or Yolanda inviting them over for coffee/tea either. I also don't think Yolanda has much to do with Brandi now either. Yolanda only saw them in conjunction with the show/filming and not in private away from the cameras in real life. LOL

I think Lisa and Kyle have the same type of humor, a bit odd, slightly twisted and a bit bawdy. Oh, and they are both devoted to their families and believe in loyalty.

[AnnA]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

Kyle initially said that LVP's moves are calculating.  Which is different than manipulative.  

Except for the calculating/manipulating statement, I agree with your post.   Since we're not discussing mathematics, calculating one's words and/or actions is manipulative.    Kyle using the word calculating instead of manipulative regarding LVP just proves she's not dumb.  

Edited December 10, 2016 by AnnA

[zoeysmom]

15 minutes ago, AnnA said:

Except for the calculating/manipulating statement, I agree with your post.   Since we're not discussing mathematics, calculating one's words and/or actions is manipulative.    Kyle using the word calculating instead of manipulative regarding LVP just proves she's not dumb.  

To me someone who makes calculated moves is one who decides which event or which friend most benefits them in the moment or even the long term.  Calculating to me means self-serving and does not necessarily involve trying to influence another's actions or words.  Manipulative would be bringing up sore topics (about a third party) to someone in hopes they will be just offended enough they will bring the topic up to the third party which would further the manipulator's stance without them having to get their hands dirty. 

Calculated move, LVP after Taylor had her say about if you can't be my friend don't be my enemy.  LVP befriended and defended her and Taylor rewarded her by going to Las Vegas with her instead of the Maloof/Brandi/Camille trip.  That was a calculated move to endear LVP as a defender of Taylor.  A recent example of manipulation was Poker Night when Kim was clearly out of her mind, sought Kyle out and Brandi intervened and claimed to be protecting Kim from her sister, when in fact Brandi was just ticked at Kyle most likely due to some crafty manipulation by addict Kim.  That is a double manipulation.  Brandi using Kim's issues to strike out at Kyle and Kim using Brandi to try and make her sister out to be the bad guy and deflect from her drinking/drugging. 

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

To me someone who makes calculated moves is one who decides which event or which friend most benefits them in the moment or even the long term.  Calculating to me means self-serving and does not necessarily involve trying to influence another's actions or words.  Manipulative would be bringing up sore topics (about a third party) to someone in hopes they will be just offended enough they will bring the topic up to the third party which would further the manipulator's stance without them having to get their hands dirty. 

Calculated move, LVP after Taylor had her say about if you can't be my friend don't be my enemy.  LVP befriended and defended her and Taylor rewarded her by going to Las Vegas with her instead of the Maloof/Brandi/Camille trip.  That was a calculated move to endear LVP as a defender of Taylor.  A recent example of manipulation was Poker Night when Kim was clearly out of her mind, sought Kyle out and Brandi intervened and claimed to be protecting Kim from her sister, when in fact Brandi was just ticked at Kyle most likely due to some crafty manipulation by addict Kim.  That is a double manipulation.  Brandi using Kim's issues to strike out at Kyle and Kim using Brandi to try and make her sister out to be the bad guy and deflect from her drinking/drugging. 

So, you think Lisa made a calculated move to get Taylor on her "team" and to look better to viewers? Is it possible that finding out that Taylor was a (possible) DV victim made Lisa see Taylor in a different light and not some premeditated self serving action instead? IMO, Lisa is "calculating" in that we don't see her drunk off her ass, screaming, threatening to expose others, claiming "life threatening illness", blaming everything on everyone else all the time, ect...... She chooses to control herself, mouth/temper/drinking, as much as possible. I don't find her any more "calculating" or "Manipulating" than Kyle, they just have different approaches to the same outcome, controlling themselves as much as possible, both on and off camera.

I don't think Brandi "manipulated" Kim poker night, she flat out used her as a weapon against Kyle. Brandi was/is a user, not a manipulator. Eileen is a "manipulator", as is/was Yolanda.

[AnnA]

These women are so incredibly shallow and self serving that debating whether their actions were calculating or manipulative reminds me of "you say potato...."  and not worth our time.  They  are all calculating and manipulative.

Edited December 10, 2016 by AnnA

[WireWrap]

3 minutes ago, AnnA said:

These women are so incredibly shallow and self serving that debating whether their actions were calculating or manipulative reminds me of "you say potato...."  and not worth our time.  They  are all calculating and manipulative.

Without a doubt, if we broke down each and every HW move, it would show that they are all manipulative/calculating! LOL In so many ways these HW shows are just a better dressed, better fed version of the Survivor TV show!  Heck, the HWs even break into 2 separate groups most of the time with 1 or 2 floaters playing them against each other for job security no matter which team wins the current event. The end desire/object of each HW is to win fans/supporters and to secure her "role"/paycheck for another season. Very few HWs have opt to voluntarily leave their respective HW show, the others are voted off by production/Andy. LOL

[motorcitymom65]

Kyle has called LVP both calculating and maniuplative. Neither one are the way that I would like to be described. 

[zoeysmom]

6 hours ago, WireWrap said:

So, you think Lisa made a calculated move to get Taylor on her "team" and to look better to viewers? Is it possible that finding out that Taylor was a (possible) DV victim made Lisa see Taylor in a different light and not some premeditated self serving action instead? IMO, Lisa is "calculating" in that we don't see her drunk off her ass, screaming, threatening to expose others, claiming "life threatening illness", blaming everything on everyone else all the time, ect...... She chooses to control herself, mouth/temper/drinking, as much as possible. I don't find her any more "calculating" or "Manipulating" than Kyle, they just have different approaches to the same outcome, controlling themselves as much as possible, both on and off camera.

I don't think Brandi "manipulated" Kim poker night, she flat out used her as a weapon against Kyle. Brandi was/is a user, not a manipulator. Eileen is a "manipulator", as is/was Yolanda.

I do think LVP weighed in on her about face regarding Taylor.  LVP knew from the first time she met Taylor, Russell abused her and according to LVP that is why she didn't like Russell.  Speaking of manipulation, hadn't Taylor just told LVP, they thought she had a big ego and turned to Kyle asking her if she had said the same?  So yes, I do see her taking a different stance with Taylor both calculating and kind.  I do appreciate LVP doesn't get drunk and scream etc.  I don't find it as offensive as say Eileen does that LVP doesn't overshare her emotions. 

Here is another calculating example after Palm Springs, when LVP, clearly backed the wrong horse by tolerating Brandi's antics far too long against Joyce she had a dinner at SUR (clearly calculated to serve two shows) and the guest list was heavily stacked against Joyce and Michael.  LVP, Ken, Mohamed, Brandi,. There were filler people Martin and Shiva.  No Kyle and Mauricio, no Kim and thankfully no Carlton.  It moved to manipulation when after Brandi made an ass out of herself and left the party, Ken sat there and went around the table counting the number of people who liked Brandi.  Fortunately, Michael and Joyce stood their ground.  It is also interesting because as we later found out Yolanda had been trying to influence Joyce against LVP and Brandi had been trying to influence Joyce to dislike Kim and Kyle. 

I disagree with Kyle when she says everyone is smart woman and are manipulative at some point.  It waters down the initial accusation.  To me it is like an alcoholic saying -well so and so drank too much at the Jones wedding, or so and so has wine every night with dinner.  The statement is designed to spread the assertion and dilute it.  I do believe when Rinna said, Yolanda was the most manipulative of all, she was on the right track. 

The reason I brought up Poker Night, is Kim had so adopted Brandi's manipulated statement of events, at the Reunion, she had Kyle following her to the bathroom.  Kyle was trying to protect her sister and Kim just didn't see it.  I do think if Brandi had not butted in, Kim would have enjoyed some pizza and probably ended up talking old Hollywood days with Vince.  Brandi and Kim did stick around after the battles in the driveway-much to Eileen and Vince's dismay.

All I can say about the first episode is I think the accusations (if Rinna's lips get sewn shut) of manipulation (which as @LUNASTARTRON has said has become manipulation equates to mind control) will slowly disappear.

5 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Kyle has called LVP both calculating and maniuplative. Neither one are the way that I would like to be described. 

I agree which is why diluting it makes little difference when you make the original assertion.  Although calculating can be a compliment, indicated an ordered plan of one's thoughts and events. 

[motorcitymom65]

12 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

To me someone who makes calculated moves is one who decides which event or which friend most benefits them in the moment or even the long term.  Calculating to me means self-serving and does not necessarily involve trying to influence another's actions or words.  Manipulative would be bringing up sore topics (about a third party) to someone in hopes they will be just offended enough they will bring the topic up to the third party which would further the manipulator's stance without them having to get their hands dirty. 

To be calculating you have to be working in your own self interest, and do something in a manner that is shady or unelthical to guard your own self interest. You might lie to get what you think you need, or you might manipulate someone else into doing something to get you what you want. That was Kyle's initial assertion of LVP, and it was extremely insightful. That LVP saw the world like a game of chess. She decided what she wanted to happen, and moved things around in ways that might be beneficial to make that happen. 

I also reject the "everyone does it defense". It was the same one thrown around when Brandi first started her lying. They all lie at one time or another, so what's the big deal? Yes, everyone lies, but all lies are not created equal. Some are designed to make someone else look bad. Others are simply of convenience. I will lie tonight to get out of a dinner party early, simply because it is convenient and I want to get out of there early. My hubby will be mortified because he doesn't believe in lying for any reason, except to save someone's feelings (yes Mom, I love the sweater you got me for Christmas kind of thing). If you are calculating and manipulating because it will make you look good, while at the same time making someone else look bad, that is a major character flaw and I reject the notion that "they all do it". 

Edited December 10, 2016 by motorcitymom65

[Cranky One]

23 hours ago, AnnA said:

Thank you!   Thankfully, I am feeling better and getting stronger everyday.

Glad you're on the mend! Hope to see some of your hilarious photos, although I'm not sure you'll ever be able to top Kim climbing over the wall! LOL!

[Wings]

12 hours ago, AnnA said:

Except for the calculating/manipulating statement, I agree with your post.   Since we're not discussing mathematics, calculating one's words and/or actions is manipulative.    Kyle using the word calculating instead of manipulative regarding LVP just proves she's not dumb.  

The words basically mean the same thing.  Certainly close enough that assigning a nuance to either to define a behavior as being better or worse is debatable.  I am tired of the use of both!  

cal·cu·lat·ing

adjective

acting in a scheming and ruthlessly determined way.

_______________________

ma·nip·u·late

verb

gerund or present participle: manipulating

control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously.

[zoeysmom]

40 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

To be calculating you have to be working in your own self interest, and do something in a manner that is shady or unelthical to guard your own self interest. You might lie to get what you think you need, or you might manipulate someone else into doing something to get you what you want. That was Kyle's initial assertion of LVP, and it was extremely insightful. That LVP saw the world like a game of chess. She decided what she wanted to happen, and moved things around in ways that might be beneficial to make that happen. 

That is why I used the example of the SUR dinner.  That was the ultimate in calculated.  If nothing happened at the dinner, LVP would still have the scenes of the staff behind the scenes to use in "Vanderpump Rules", I think of calculating as shrewd, wily and as you said with the intent to guard or forward your own self-interests.  As it happened it became the beginning of the demise of the Brandi/LVP friendship, that and once again the calculated decision to invite Scheana to serve at the birthday dinner. 

LVP's decision to have her daughter's bachelorette party at Planet Hollywood, instead of The Palms, was another calculated example of LVP taking the shine off of Maloof and her family's entertainment venues. I agreed with Kyle's infamous Bobby Fisher comment because at the time she said it was the tip of the iceberg of what would follow.  

That is why it doesn't bother me that LVP holds certain grudges. She takes the risk and those involved know how she is and still  involve themselves with LVP and her events and agree to go on the show with her.  What has been ridiculously unsuccessful is trying to dethrone LVP.    However, this past season I really didn't see the same level as past seasons in the calculating and manipulation.  LVP's trip where she was in charge backfired-all the RH scurried off to find better lodging.  LVP will always have the magazine cover though.

[Juliegirlj]

I believe under all that sexy bravado, Erika is a very sad, lonely person. She is not close with her mother, and seems to have few, if any friends that aren't paid for. 

I think the old goat is unhappy with life at the Girard house, and his painting gift was a reflection of that. I bet Erika found out right before filming and pitched a huge fit, and Tom caved- hence the hastily printed out photo of a ring. IF he really had gotten her a Cartier ring it would have been there, in its fabulous blue box with a big bow. 

Erika seemed really surprised by her Mama's presence and non too thrilled either. Probably another dig from Tom. 

[Wings]

28 minutes ago, Juliegirlj said:

I believe under all that sexy bravado, Erika is a very sad, lonely person. She is not close with her mother, and seems to have few, if any friends that aren't paid for. 

I think the old goat is unhappy with life at the Girard house, and his painting gift was a reflection of that. I bet Erika found out right before filming and pitched a huge fit, and Tom caved- hence the hastily printed out photo of a ring. IF he really had gotten her a Cartier ring it would have been there, in its fabulous blue box with a big bow. 

Erika seemed really surprised by her Mama's presence and non too thrilled either. Probably another dig from Tom. 

I agree she is lonely.  A woman without women friends is a sad story.  I hadn't noticed the other things but now that you mention it, she seemed happy to see her mother but it was very low key and nothing connecting, like OMG, I just talked to you yesterday and you were here in my house!  Something.  Tom probably thought it was a fabulous thing to do, having no clue that it wasn't the surprise he thought it would be.  Typical of a man who pays no attention.   I don't think it was dig.  

The art work was clearly something he wanted, as she mentioned.  And you are right about the ring; it would have been there.  But how did he know to print out a picture?  A last minute thought?   He treats her like a granddaughter he doesn't know very well.  

Trophy wife doesn't even touch it.  Toy? 

Edited December 10, 2016 by wings707

[biakbiak]

6 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

I think the old goat is unhappy with life at the Girard house, and his painting gift was a reflection of that. I bet Erika found out right before filming and pitched a huge fit, and Tom caved- hence the hastily printed out photo of a ring. IF he really had gotten her a Cartier ring it would have been there, in its fabulous blue box with a big bow. 

Cartier = red box, Tiffany = blue box.

Last year she said she just emailed Tom's assistant with whatever jewelry she wanted so maybe his assistant was late in ordering it.

Edited December 10, 2016 by biakbiak

[zoeysmom]

6 hours ago, wings707 said:

The words basically mean the same thing.  Certainly close enough that assigning a nuance to either to define a behavior as being better or worse is debatable.  I am tired of the use of both!  

cal·cu·lat·ing

adjective

acting in a scheming and ruthlessly determined way.

_______________________

ma·nip·u·late

verb

gerund or present participle: manipulating

control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously.

One thing for certain there is a lot of work that has to go into the repair of any relationship between Eileen and LVP and Rinna and LVP.  Big of Eileen to admit LVP won't change after disparaging her-some things are better kept to oneself.  I guess that leaves Erika for everyone to fawn over until they realize she is just a giant bucket of ego.

For those who are dying to see Erika on  The Young & The Restless, she is on December 15th.  I guess it took awhile to figure out the perfect role for her.

[hypnotoad]

Quote

For those who are dying to see Erika on  The Young & The Restless, she is on December 15th.  I guess it took awhile to figure out the perfect role for her.

Well, that might not necessarily be true. Soaps these days film way in advance. I don't know how far Y&R does, but Days of Our Lives films like 6 months in advance - it's a budget thing (at least it used to be 6 months, that may have gone down a little).

[StevieRocks]

On 12/10/2016 at 11:31 AM, Juliegirlj said:

I believe under all that sexy bravado, Erika is a very sad, lonely person. She is not close with her mother, and seems to have few, if any friends that aren't paid for. 

I think the old goat is unhappy with life at the Girard house, and his painting gift was a reflection of that. I bet Erika found out right before filming and pitched a huge fit, and Tom caved- hence the hastily printed out photo of a ring. IF he really had gotten her a Cartier ring it would have been there, in its fabulous blue box with a big bow. 

Erika seemed really surprised by her Mama's presence and non too thrilled either. Probably another dig from Tom. 

Bwah! Yes, wasn't that romantic? He does seem bored with her, and she treats him like her ol' grandpa. He also seems to have such a lively and interesting rapport with LVP. I think he has grown unamused with Trampy McTramperton. It's hard to pull off the "I'm a ho-bag; I'm a fugly slut" or whatever her song is--when you're pushin' fifty. Additionally, she probably realizes she is approaching her shelf-life expiration date. 

 "When you marry for money, ya earn every penny." They remind me of the couple in Best in Show:

Edited December 11, 2016 by StevieRocks

[tenativelyyours]

Calculating can also simply mean being shrewd in one's pursuits or planning out one's moves in where sides are drawn, like the courtroom.  Whereas to me all the definition of manipulative speak to a negative connotation.  I think these women should be calculating since they are putting themselves in front of a camera.  However I find they almost always fall into being manipulative.  They want to affect an outcome through others actions as well as their own.  None of them seem content on letting each define herself the way she wants without using another to validate it or enhance it.  And too often try to put another down in the process in some way. 

Ironically outside of Kim, Kyle is the only one I've seen gain any self-awareness as to being more the person she seems to want to be and sees as being "better".  I'm not sure she often succeeds or that she is right in how and why she goes about it.  But I've been pleasantly surprised at how each season she seems to grow a bit in regards to looking and commenting on herself.  Now if she could just get a spine and do the same with her sisters that lasts more than a screaming moment.  I might actually like her if she simply removed herself from any Kim situation and not tried to shut it down as a whole.  Let Kim shriek and weep her own on air battles and let Kyle simply abstain.   It might also make a lot of the over wrought for cameras Rinna go away as well. 

[biakbiak]

8 hours ago, hypnotoad said:

Well, that might not necessarily be true. Soaps these days film way in advance. I don't know how far Y&R does, but Days of Our Lives films like 6 months in advance - it's a budget thing (at least it used to be 6 months, that may have gone down a little).

Also, it would make sense for them to wait until the show came back.

[Sage47]

Tom Girardi gives me the creeps. There is nothing young in spirit about the guy-he is uptight, stuffy and looks about 90. Does she really sleep with this guy?? Ewww. I doubt it based on the kisses to his forehead and platonic hugs and zero chemistry. I would love to know more about Erika's past. Why is she where she is in life?

Yes, I know Girardi has a shitload of money but everything about Erika is strange. The no-chemistry marriage/arrangement, her cold, aloof personality, having no close girlfriends, how overly controlled she always is when speaking-she never lets loose, hanging out with a gay"entourage" with a "look book" trying to make her into another Madonna even though she is 45. Yikes.

And why is her son never mentioned? Hmm.

HarryHamlin's wife is one of the most irritating personalities I have ever seen. She is always UP, UP, UP! Chatty and smiling and bubbling over with glee.  No wonder her daughters have such dour, blah personalities. They couldn't compete.

[zoeysmom]

11 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Also, it would make sense for them to wait until the show came back.

They could show the scene Tuesday of Erika filming and the episode would air Wednesday.  Makes sense. 

[AnnA]

2 hours ago, Sage47 said:

 

And why is her son never mentioned? Hmm.

 

Her son is LAPD.  There are a few law enforcement professionals in my family and it makes sense for them/him to avoid TV, especially RHs

Edited December 12, 2016 by AnnA

[ottergirl]

On 12/10/2016 at 0:05 AM, WireWrap said:

So, you think Lisa made a calculated move to get Taylor on her "team" and to look better to viewers? Is it possible that finding out that Taylor was a (possible) DV victim made Lisa see Taylor in a different light and not some premeditated self serving action instead? IMO, Lisa is "calculating" in that we don't see her drunk off her ass, screaming, threatening to expose others, claiming "life threatening illness", blaming everything on everyone else all the time, ect...... She chooses to control herself, mouth/temper/drinking, as much as possible. I don't find her any more "calculating" or "Manipulating" than Kyle, they just have different approaches to the same outcome, controlling themselves as much as possible, both on and off camera.

I think LVP was one of the first wives in the entire franchise who was smart enough to use the show strategically - as in, she knew what the producers were trying to do to manipulate her, and she outplayed production. This was all in Season 2 with Brandi; Brandi was brought in specifically to rile up LVP through the Cedric connection.  For ages, LVP refused to engage, then she met up with Brandi off camera, prior to the Hawaii trip, and they made a strategic alliance: basically, LVP said that she would befriend Brandi on camera, to ensure Brandi a spot on the show, and Brandi would not go against LVP. LVP and Brandi have both confirmed most of this, including the pre-Hawaii meeting to negotiate their on camera relationship.  Meanwhile, Kyle had been spending the season fighting with Brandi on camera, largely to protect LVP, and ended up looking like a mean girl, while LVP was sitting pretty.  This is why Kyle said, at that year's reunion, that LVP was Bobby Fischer.  I don't think that's a bad thing, by the way. Production tries to play games with the wives, and if the wives are smart enough to see through it and turn the tables, more power to them!!! I am completely pro-LVP on that front. Her smart thinking changed the game, and good for her.

Where LVP loses me -- big time -- is that whenever she is caught, she cries and plays victim. She claims not to understand what anyone is talking about, she is just a sweet innocent restaurant owner who would NEVER delve into drama. (Literally every single long term wife has said the exact same thing about LVP: she manipulates behind the scenes for storylines and her own persona.)  That sort of false innocence, designed to speak to viewers who take everything she says at face value, is gross to me.  (It's the same thing Vicki Gunvalson and certain political candidates do:  I can say whatever I want, knowing that in this post-truth world, my "fans" will believe anything I say, regardless of how true or false it may be.) 

For all her faults -- and they are many -- the reason I always find myself liking Kyle, in the end, is that Kyle plays fair.  When she acts badly, she owns it straight up.  She has admitted to being mean with her sister in Season One (even though we now know so much more about the truth of that), to overreacting and escalating the fight with Camille in Season One, to being nasty to Brandi in Season Two, and to trying to play both sides of the fence with LVP during Season Two. Kyle has the extremely rare ability to see her own behavior and publicly admit what she has done wrong. It makes her oddly relatable to me. Whereas LVP seems to truly believe that if she were to ever admit wrongdoing, Giggy would burst into flames.  (It's interesting that this dynamic is reflected in each of their husbands.  Mauricio has no problem having honest conversations with Kyle around her issues, whereas whenever someone doesn't like LVP, Ken immediately shrieks and starts calling them names and saying how jealous they are.)

All THAT said, my hopes for the season?  I think the smartest thing the wives could do, if they want to outplay LVP, is just leave her on the sidelines. She's trying to create storylines, you know she is, so don't buy into them, and don't complain that she's doing it: just write BETTER storylines, and leave her out of them.  She doesn't want to be excluded. So give her two choices:  be part of our storylines, or be on the sidelines.  I'd love to see how she responded to that.

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, ottergirl said:

I think LVP was one of the first wives in the entire franchise who was smart enough to use the show strategically - as in, she knew what the producers were trying to do to manipulate her, and she outplayed production. This was all in Season 2 with Brandi; Brandi was brought in specifically to rile up LVP through the Cedric connection.  For ages, LVP refused to engage, then she met up with Brandi off camera, prior to the Hawaii trip, and they made a strategic alliance: basically, LVP said that she would befriend Brandi on camera, to ensure Brandi a spot on the show, and Brandi would not go against LVP. LVP and Brandi have both confirmed most of this, including the pre-Hawaii meeting to negotiate their on camera relationship.  Meanwhile, Kyle had been spending the season fighting with Brandi on camera, largely to protect LVP, and ended up looking like a mean girl, while LVP was sitting pretty.  This is why Kyle said, at that year's reunion, that LVP was Bobby Fischer.  I don't think that's a bad thing, by the way. Production tries to play games with the wives, and if the wives are smart enough to see through it and turn the tables, more power to them!!! I am completely pro-LVP on that front. Her smart thinking changed the game, and good for her.

Where LVP loses me -- big time -- is that whenever she is caught, she cries and plays victim. She claims not to understand what anyone is talking about, she is just a sweet innocent restaurant owner who would NEVER delve into drama. (Literally every single long term wife has said the exact same thing about LVP: she manipulates behind the scenes for storylines and her own persona.)  That sort of false innocence, designed to speak to viewers who take everything she says at face value, is gross to me.  (It's the same thing Vicki Gunvalson and certain political candidates do:  I can say whatever I want, knowing that in this post-truth world, my "fans" will believe anything I say, regardless of how true or false it may be.) 

For all her faults -- and they are many -- the reason I always find myself liking Kyle, in the end, is that Kyle plays fair.  When she acts badly, she owns it straight up.  She has admitted to being mean with her sister in Season One (even though we now know so much more about the truth of that), to overreacting and escalating the fight with Camille in Season One, to being nasty to Brandi in Season Two, and to trying to play both sides of the fence with LVP during Season Two. Kyle has the extremely rare ability to see her own behavior and publicly admit what she has done wrong. It makes her oddly relatable to me. Whereas LVP seems to truly believe that if she were to ever admit wrongdoing, Giggy would burst into flames.  (It's interesting that this dynamic is reflected in each of their husbands.  Mauricio has no problem having honest conversations with Kyle around her issues, whereas whenever someone doesn't like LVP, Ken immediately shrieks and starts calling them names and saying how jealous they are.)

All THAT said, my hopes for the season?  I think the smartest thing the wives could do, if they want to outplay LVP, is just leave her on the sidelines. She's trying to create storylines, you know she is, so don't buy into them, and don't complain that she's doing it: just write BETTER storylines, and leave her out of them.  She doesn't want to be excluded. So give her two choices:  be part of our storylines, or be on the sidelines.  I'd love to see how she responded to that.

Excellent points.

I have often thought the act of Kyle and Mauricio moving on from LVP and Ken's accusations were the best example of moving on.  They were never addressed other than for LVP to say words spoken in  moment's anger type thing.  Where LVP gets tripped up is when she tries and creates discord where someone is not all that vested.  The Yolanda saying she could have said Rinna was bi-polar.  Big mistake because no one was paying much attention to what Yolanda said after the BBQ at Erika's.  I do think her second mistake is when she demands (which was a large part of her anger towards Kyle t the Season 2 Reunion) they stick up for her.  LVP does a fine job of it all by herself.  

I think LVP is taking a step back from mid-fray.  She has probably strategized that Rinna can't stand not to be making a big scene about something.  

I have always thought the lowest points of production manipulation occurred at the end of Season 2, when they had Cedric show up at the opening of SUR (which had been open for years) and Sheana, so LVP could ask both parties to leave.  Cedric produced the e-mails, and finally by Season 5 Brandi mentioned it on air.  I don't think LVP has been as careless since.  

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, ottergirl said:

I think LVP was one of the first wives in the entire franchise who was smart enough to use the show strategically - as in, she knew what the producers were trying to do to manipulate her, and she outplayed production. This was all in Season 2 with Brandi; Brandi was brought in specifically to rile up LVP through the Cedric connection.  For ages, LVP refused to engage, then she met up with Brandi off camera, prior to the Hawaii trip, and they made a strategic alliance: basically, LVP said that she would befriend Brandi on camera, to ensure Brandi a spot on the show, and Brandi would not go against LVP. LVP and Brandi have both confirmed most of this, including the pre-Hawaii meeting to negotiate their on camera relationship.  Meanwhile, Kyle had been spending the season fighting with Brandi on camera, largely to protect LVP, and ended up looking like a mean girl, while LVP was sitting pretty.  This is why Kyle said, at that year's reunion, that LVP was Bobby Fischer.  I don't think that's a bad thing, by the way. Production tries to play games with the wives, and if the wives are smart enough to see through it and turn the tables, more power to them!!! I am completely pro-LVP on that front. Her smart thinking changed the game, and good for her.

Where LVP loses me -- big time -- is that whenever she is caught, she cries and plays victim. She claims not to understand what anyone is talking about, she is just a sweet innocent restaurant owner who would NEVER delve into drama. (Literally every single long term wife has said the exact same thing about LVP: she manipulates behind the scenes for storylines and her own persona.)  That sort of false innocence, designed to speak to viewers who take everything she says at face value, is gross to me.  (It's the same thing Vicki Gunvalson and certain political candidates do:  I can say whatever I want, knowing that in this post-truth world, my "fans" will believe anything I say, regardless of how true or false it may be.) 

For all her faults -- and they are many -- the reason I always find myself liking Kyle, in the end, is that Kyle plays fair.  When she acts badly, she owns it straight up.  She has admitted to being mean with her sister in Season One (even though we now know so much more about the truth of that), to overreacting and escalating the fight with Camille in Season One, to being nasty to Brandi in Season Two, and to trying to play both sides of the fence with LVP during Season Two. Kyle has the extremely rare ability to see her own behavior and publicly admit what she has done wrong. It makes her oddly relatable to me. Whereas LVP seems to truly believe that if she were to ever admit wrongdoing, Giggy would burst into flames.  (It's interesting that this dynamic is reflected in each of their husbands.  Mauricio has no problem having honest conversations with Kyle around her issues, whereas whenever someone doesn't like LVP, Ken immediately shrieks and starts calling them names and saying how jealous they are.)

All THAT said, my hopes for the season?  I think the smartest thing the wives could do, if they want to outplay LVP, is just leave her on the sidelines. She's trying to create storylines, you know she is, so don't buy into them, and don't complain that she's doing it: just write BETTER storylines, and leave her out of them.  She doesn't want to be excluded. So give her two choices:  be part of our storylines, or be on the sidelines.  I'd love to see how she responded to that.

Didn't that conversation, between Lisa/Brandi, happen after filming ended but before the reunion was filmed? I'm thinking it was. That was when the alliance between them formed, after Brandi told Lisa that Adrienne was plotting against her and was going to go after her during the reunion, not before.

As for Lisa manipulating them/anyone, I disagree. Lisa has said from the get go that if you keep talking about something concerning another HW off camera, then bring it up on camera to that HW, something the others admit she does say. That is not manipulating IMO, they ask for her opinion, she gives it to them and they are free to do or not do as they please.

Yes, Lisa falls back into the wounded bird act far too often, I wish she would just let them have it and be done with it/them.

2 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Excellent points.

I have often thought the act of Kyle and Mauricio moving on from LVP and Ken's accusations were the best example of moving on.  They were never addressed other than for LVP to say words spoken in  moment's anger type thing.  Where LVP gets tripped up is when she tries and creates discord where someone is not all that vested.  The Yolanda saying she could have said Rinna was bi-polar.  Big mistake because no one was paying much attention to what Yolanda said after the BBQ at Erika's.  I do think her second mistake is when she demands (which was a large part of her anger towards Kyle t the Season 2 Reunion) they stick up for her.  LVP does a fine job of it all by herself.  

I think LVP is taking a step back from mid-fray.  She has probably strategized that Rinna can't stand not to be making a big scene about something.  

I have always thought the lowest points of production manipulation occurred at the end of Season 2, when they had Cedric show up at the opening of SUR (which had been open for years) and Sheana, so LVP could ask both parties to leave.  Cedric produced the e-mails, and finally by Season 5 Brandi mentioned it on air.  I don't think LVP has been as careless since.  

Those emails Cedric showed were from production, not from Lisa and I am not inclined to accept his or Brandi's word that Lisa knew he was coming. It is far more likely that production did this without telling/warning her beforehand, like they, production, normally does.

[This2getsold]

On 12/7/2016 at 6:36 PM, tenativelyyours said:

It might be too late.  The upper lip of the daughter in that pic seemed like it could have been blessed by more than nature.  Plus she has had a closer seat or at least a different angle to watch the likes of Bella Hadid and Kendall Jenner visages get pimped to modeling success.  Even Giggle-less Hadid keeps getting tweaked and people rave about her "natural" beauty.  Of course when you live in a pop culture world where someone like Kelly Osborne has the audacity to rave about how stunningly beautiful and perfect Kim Kardashian is after so many procedures I suspect even Kardashian has lost count (assuming she can count), I'm guessing just the fact that her mother with that mouth is still on television might seem like a positive thing, not a "in spite of" thing.

Rinna's daughter is darling. But its very obvious by the corners of her mouth her lips have been overdone. Look at Lisa and her daughter, same mouth corner caved in look.   

[poeticlicensed]

I am so over last season's petty arguments about who said what to who and when. Please don't let this season be more of that.

Oh, the addition of Ms. Dorito will hopefully bring the crazy.  When they said her name was Dorit, the first thing I thought of was Charles Dickens Little Dorrit, who was a poor, but kind hearted young girl. Nothing could be farther from these bitchez. BTW, rumour has it that the Dorito/PK finances are bad, like they are broke. Does anyone have info on that?

LVP has a new sex monster that she dresses up. Ugh. 

Kyle is buying a plane? Oh puleeze. Did I see Kim in a preview? Say it ain't so. 

I don't know why Rinna didn't wear her own hair, because her style is right out of the 80s. At least Eileen admitted she just pulled something from the 80s from her closet.

Ericka and Tom are just..weird. She kisses him like you would an aging grandparent. I did note that she wondered if the painting was hers. I wanted the paper in the envelope to be a document stating that the painting was hers. Tom is too smart for that. And I cannot handle her gaggle of paid gays. Please stop. 

  At least no Yo. Does anyone keep up with Yo or the King? Just wondering if he is getting married again. 

[This2getsold]

On 12/7/2016 at 7:20 PM, Giselle said:

GOD THAT IS HIDEOUS!

ll bet if you brushed water on them and pushed her against a wall, she'd suction right to it.

HH must be a real freak. Those are 70's porno blow up doll lips. Bought at store 1 black south of Broadway and 31st Times Square circa 1977.    

So Kyle's hubby is looking to buy a jet. Hope its the business's. The IRS watches business jet ownership like a hawk. I know I'm alone on this, never thought he was 'bright,' if it wasn't for this show and the free advertising, he'd still be working for Rick Hilton.  He's lacking the extra somethin somethin I've seen in real successful men. What does he have 10 partners?  And he looks like that guy that was in the movie Game Show. John Something.

Edited December 12, 2016 by This2getsold
add

[motorcitymom65]

46 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Didn't that conversation, between Lisa/Brandi, happen after filming ended but before the reunion was filmed? I'm thinking it was. That was when the alliance between them formed, after Brandi told Lisa that Adrienne was plotting against her and was going to go after her during the reunion, not before.

As for Lisa manipulating them/anyone, I disagree. Lisa has said from the get go that if you keep talking about something concerning another HW off camera, then bring it up on camera to that HW, something the others admit she does say. That is not manipulating IMO, they ask for her opinion, she gives it to them and they are free to do or not do as they please.

Yes, Lisa falls back into the wounded bird act far too often, I wish she would just let them have it and be done with it/them.

Those emails Cedric showed were from production, not from Lisa and I am not inclined to accept his or Brandi's word that Lisa knew he was coming. It is far more likely that production did this without telling/warning her beforehand, like they, production, normally does.

There was more than one conversation. LVP said that she and Brandi spoke before Hawaii in private to sort out the stuff about Cedric. LVP wanted some reassurance before going on that trip. I believe she mentioned that at the time (when she was packing for Hawaii with Ken), or she said it in her blog. 

Then they had a converation before the reunion. No one has said how long between when filming ended and the reunion, but that was the point when Brandi brought all the supposed dirt to LVP about the other gals and when they formed their alliance. LVP went to Kyle after that conversation to report what Brandi was saying, which Kyle denied, and the reason they both walked on that reunion stage already at odds with each other. They have both said they had a terrible fight fight before the reunion, but I don't believe either one has ever given any of the details. 

[StevieRocks]

49 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

I am so over last season's petty arguments about who said what to who and when. Please don't let this season be more of that.

Oh, the addition of Ms. Dorito will hopefully bring the crazy.  When they said her name was Dorit, the first thing I thought of was Charles Dickens Little Dorrit, who was a poor, but kind hearted young girl. Nothing could be farther from these bitchez. BTW, rumour has it that the Dorito/PK finances are bad, like they are broke. Does anyone have info on that?

LVP has a new sex monster that she dresses up. Ugh. 

Kyle is buying a plane? Oh puleeze. Did I see Kim in a preview? Say it ain't so. 

I don't know why Rinna didn't wear her own hair, because her style is right out of the 80s. At least Eileen admitted she just pulled something from the 80s from her closet.

Ericka and Tom are just..weird. She kisses him like you would an aging grandparent. I did note that she wondered if the painting was hers. I wanted the paper in the envelope to be a document stating that the painting was hers. Tom is too smart for that. And I cannot handle her gaggle of paid gays. Please stop. 

  At least no Yo. Does anyone keep up with Yo or the King? Just wondering if he is getting married again. 

Bwah! Oh, no! Now that you've brought up Dickens, I'm thinking of Tom as, "Aged P." from Great Expectations. Thanks, Poetic. Now I can't stop laughing.  For real.

[WireWrap]

35 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

There was more than one conversation. LVP said that she and Brandi spoke before Hawaii in private to sort out the stuff about Cedric. LVP wanted some reassurance before going on that trip. I believe she mentioned that at the time (when she was packing for Hawaii with Ken), or she said it in her blog. 

Then they had a converation before the reunion. No one has said how long between when filming ended and the reunion, but that was the point when Brandi brought all the supposed dirt to LVP about the other gals and when they formed their alliance. LVP went to Kyle after that conversation to report what Brandi was saying, which Kyle denied, and the reason they both walked on that reunion stage already at odds with each other. They have both said they had a terrible fight fight before the reunion, but I don't believe either one has ever given any of the details. 

Yes, they "talked" but the Lisa/Brandi "alliance" happened directly before the reunion, not the trip to Hawaii. Lisa was kind to Brandi in Hawaii but she was not close to her nor did she act like Brandi was her friend, the difference was that she didn't shut her out or ignore her like before the trip. The post I responded to was saying that the Lisa/Brandi "alliance" happened just before the Hawaii trip and as I stated, that conversation/alliance happened right before the reunion.

[MatildaMoody]

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

Yes, they "talked" but the Lisa/Brandi "alliance" happened directly before the reunion, not the trip to Hawaii. Lisa was kind to Brandi in Hawaii but she was not close to her nor did she act like Brandi was her friend, the difference was that she didn't shut her out or ignore her like before the trip. The post I responded to was saying that the Lisa/Brandi "alliance" happened just before the Hawaii trip and as I stated, that conversation/alliance happened right before the reunion.

Agreed. I would say that Brandi actually got closer to Kyle on that trip because she sympathized with her about Kim's behavior - specifically when Kim and her boyfriend showed up late and completely trashed to Mauricio's birthday dinner. Which is one of the things I never understood about Brandi and how she manages to get in her own way. She had the opportunity to have both LVP and Kyle as friends/allies and her jealousy of their friendship constantly caused her to sabotage her relationship with each of them separately. 

Anyway, on that trip, Lisa was very clear that she didn't consider Brandi a friend, as she hadn't really gotten to know her, but she saw no reason not to have fun with her. 

 

2 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Meanwhile, Kyle had been spending the season fighting with Brandi on camera, largely to protect LVP, and ended up looking like a mean girl, while LVP was sitting pretty.  This is why Kyle said, at that year's reunion, that LVP was Bobby Fischer.

Kyle took it upon herself to go at Brandi. Lisa told Kyle quite clearly a couple of times that she was simply going to be polite to Brandi and not engage her. She said this to Kyle on camera. At the time, I was pretty impressed because it was obvious (to me at least) that her game was not to give Brandi any air time by engaging with her in any type of argument. She was just going to be civil but otherwise not engage her. I thought it was a brilliant strategy and still don't know why more housewives don't use it to nullify the people they dislike.

**Not sure why the second quote is being attributed to Wire it is from Ottergirl's post.  

[HunterHunted]

3 hours ago, This2getsold said:

 So Kyle's hubby is looking to buy a jet. Hope its the business's. The IRS watches business jet ownership like a hawk. I know I'm alone on this, never thought he was 'bright,' if it wasn't for this show and the free advertising, he'd still be working for Rick Hilton.  He's lacking the extra somethin somethin I've seen in real successful men. What does he have 10 partners?  And he looks like that guy that was in the movie Game Show. John Something.

I'm pretty sure it was Jacqueline and Caroline who told the IRS about business jet ownership.

You're thinking of John Turturro.

[zoeysmom]

4 hours ago, This2getsold said:

ll bet if you brushed water on them and pushed her against a wall, she'd suction right to it.

HH must be a real freak. Those are 70's porno blow up doll lips. Bought at store 1 black south of Broadway and 31st Times Square circa 1977.    

So Kyle's hubby is looking to buy a jet. Hope its the business's. The IRS watches business jet ownership like a hawk. I know I'm alone on this, never thought he was 'bright,' if it wasn't for this show and the free advertising, he'd still be working for Rick Hilton.  He's lacking the extra somethin somethin I've seen in real successful men. What does he have 10 partners?  And he looks like that guy that was in the movie Game Show. John Something.

Mauricio left Rick Hilton because he failed to follow through with partnership promises and hit the ground running.  His first listing with Hilton & Hyland was a $5 million  listing, he was always the #1 producer. So that is a pretty important fact.  What is true is he is the CEO of the company and began the company with two partners.  I believe the other "partners" are brokers who have separate agreements.

If a corporation buys  jet or leases it they can do pretty much what they want with it.  Where the trouble begins is when corporations charter jets and try and write off pleasure trips under the guise of business. 

[This2getsold]

56 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Mauricio left Rick Hilton because he failed to follow through with partnership promises and hit the ground running.  His first listing with Hilton & Hyland was a $5 million  listing, he was always the #1 producer. So that is a pretty important fact.  What is true is he is the CEO of the company and began the company with two partners.  I believe the other "partners" are brokers who have separate agreements.

If a corporation buys  jet or leases it they can do pretty much what they want with it.  Where the trouble begins is when corporations charter jets and try and write off pleasure trips under the guise of business. 

That is what I mean. Have a friend whose business owns one. If they use it for a trip, they have to pay to use it.  (Money eventually goes into their pocket either way. But the IRS wants their share.) Unless they manage to turn a trip into a business trip. Not always easy.  If it goes to pick someone up, sometimes she hitches a ride. The pilots have to keep very detailed records, even listing who was on it. But maybe they got audited by the IRS in the past? Not my business.  

These shows have been proven to be gold mines for businesses getting off the grounds. Or just saving the business, when the reality shows come rolling in. Pawn Stars is an example of the later. Very interesting story. 

[film noire]

On 12/10/2016 at 0:27 AM, AnnA said:

 They  are all calculating and manipulative.

True! (And hope you're doing better: ) They do mean different things to me - calculators game things out, manipulators create the game.  Lisa V creates the frame & somebody like Rinna calculates her best move within that frame.

Davidson tried to be a frame changer (ouch! puns hurt!) but she couldn't pull it off (psycho-babbling asshat that she is - if you can't outplay refs to a damn mini pony, why the hell you at the table, lady?)

Edited December 13, 2016 by film noire

[Neurochick]

On 12/7/2016 at 0:50 AM, UsernameFatigue said:

Speaking of pretentious that was one ugly painting that Tom gave Erika. Yikes. And the ring wasn't much better. OTOH they both prove that money can't buy taste. 

Not only was it ugly; when he mentioned the artists' name I had to remember where I'd heard it before, then it hit me, at an art auction...on a cruise ship about ten years ago.

[jaync]

Quote

They remind me of the couple in Best in Show:

Yes! Perfect.

Maybe I blacked it out, but was the word "manipulate" even used this episode? 

Edited December 13, 2016 by jaync

[izabella]

Chagall is no slouch, and I'm sure that painting is pricey:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Chagall

https://www.google.com/search?q=chagall+windows+chicago&sa=X&biw=1366&bih=634&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwjPzN7axvHQAhWJhFQKHdsrBj0QsAQILw&dpr=1#tbm=isch&q=chagall+stained+glass

https://www.guggenheim.org/artwork/artist/marc-chagall

[Wings]

On 12/11/2016 at 0:49 PM, StevieRocks said:

Bwah! Yes, wasn't that romantic? He does seem bored with her, and she treats him like her ol' grandpa. He also seems to have such a lively and interesting rapport with LVP. I think he has grown unamused with Trampy McTramperton. It's hard to pull off the "I'm a ho-bag; I'm a fugly slut" or whatever her song is--when you're pushin' fifty. Additionally, she probably realizes she is approaching her shelf-life expiration date. 

 "When you marry for money, ya earn every penny." They remind me of the couple in Best in Show:

OMG, thank you for that gif!  It is one of my favorite movies of all time.  

Tom took quite a shine to LVP.  If I could put words in a thought bubble for him it would say, "I wish I had a wife like that."  She is a smart and savvy business woman with a lot going on in her life and his peer.  He would enjoy talking with her on his level.  Ken was aware of that, too.  IIRC, didn't he say he did not him calling her an alligator?  It was obviously a compliment but he chose to take it another way.  

6 hours ago, film noire said:

True! (And hope you're doing better: ) They do mean different things to me - calculators game things out, manipulators create the game.  Lisa V creates the frame & somebody like Rinna calculates her best move within that frame.

Davidson tried to be a frame changer (ouch! puns hurt!) but she couldn't pull it off (psycho-babbling asshat that she is - if you can't outplay refs to a damn mini pony, why the hell you at the table, lady?)

Yes, I agree.  I hope we are not going to hear either of those words hurled around this season; I am sick to death of them.  They all do both; they have reputations to protect.  Eileen is the most guilty of that.  She and LVP will never get along.  There is no reason for LVP to foster a relationship with her, none.  If anyone is a spider or sniper from the side it is Eileen.  

I think Erika's role on Y&R will be 180 degrees from her alter ego.  Eileen mentioned a nun.  That probably won't happen but I got where she was coming from.  

[jaync]

Quote

I hope we are not going to hear either of those words hurled around this season; I am sick to death of them.

This. Every bit of this. This all day.

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Not only was it ugly; when he mentioned the artists' name I had to remember where I'd heard it before, then it hit me, at an art auction...on a cruise ship about ten years ago.

Is this a print of the etching of Erika and Tom's piece?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARC-CHAGALL-THE-LOVERS-1985-SIGNED-HAND-NUMBERED-260-333-ETCHING-/262740815613

Chagall in the '70s went pretty commercial and there are thousands of hand signed lithos out there.

[zoeysmom]

So Rinna weighs in. . . she is such an angel- http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARC-CHAGALL-THE-LOVERS-1985-SIGNED-HAND-NUMBERED-260-333-ETCHING-/262740815613  Glad she doesn't hold grudges.  Maybe Kim wants to weigh in on that claim.

[Almost 3000]

22 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Tom took quite a shine to LVP.  If I could put words in a thought bubble for him it would say, "I wish I had a wife like that."  She is a smart and savvy business woman with a lot going on in her life and his peer.  He would enjoy talking with her on his level.  Ken was aware of that, too.  IIRC, didn't he say he did not him calling her an alligator?  It was obviously a compliment but he chose to take it another way.  

I'm finding Tom amusing when he talks to LVP. He seems to be applying that "neg" technique from that pick-up artist/author/reality show guy used. I'm never sure if he's complimenting or insulting and its vaguely uncomfortable to watch but I do believe he's a bit taken with La Vanderpump. Come to think of it he's generally not very gentlemanly around women.

[Wings]

3 hours ago, Almost 3000 said:

I'm finding Tom amusing when he talks to LVP. He seems to be applying that "neg" technique from that pick-up artist/author/reality show guy used. I'm never sure if he's complimenting or insulting and its vaguely uncomfortable to watch but I do believe he's a bit taken with La Vanderpump. Come to think of it he's generally not very gentlemanly around women.

I saw it as flirting.  

[sasha206]

On 12/12/2016 at 3:27 PM, poeticlicensed said:

BTW, rumour has it that the Dorito/PK finances are bad, like they are broke. Does anyone have info on that?

 

If Boy George is the talent he manages, it's no wonder. I mean, he's well past his prime.  

And holy hell, Dorit, pick an accent and stick with it.

[LoveLeigh]

Does anybody know the kind of car Harry bought for Lisa? 

[eurekagirl mOo]

Boy George did a concert 3 blocks from me. I has week end tickets to all the concerts (there were 5) I skipped Boy George. YAWN. 

[ButterQueen]

I finally watched this eppy.....I was bored.  I think it's PTSD from last season.

Lisa Rinna looks horrible.