S01.E09: The Well-Tempered Clavier

[Unknown poster]

I agree with the people who think that when all is revealed, Delores will prove to be the inspiration for Wyatt. And thinking back on Ford's attitude and tone when speaking to both her and Teddy, I wonder if they're shared loop as doomed lovers isn't Ford's version of hell, which he's condemned them to for their actions in the (un)buried city so long ago?

When you think about it , they seem to have the most bleak existence of the host a we've seen. Teddy always failing to protect his love, and dieing in front of her eyes. And Delores , forced to witness the murder of everything and everyone she cares for, and then be raped (and likely killed) by the perpetrators . 

[Netfoot]

8 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

So, now we know that Theresa wasn't human.

Bernard is a secret host.  Theresa is a secret host.

So, how many times will this big reveal... be revealed?  Are there any non-guest humans in the park?  

[Miles]

Wow, they confirmed two big fan theories in one episode.

1. Bernard being modeled after Arnold.

2. The William and Logan being in the past and Dolores just remembering them. (the bots are all old tech and the photo of the fiancée is the one Dolores's father later finds crumpled in the dirt)

I guess it's now also pretty safe to say that the black hat of modern day will turn out to be William.

 

But even apart from that, this was a really intense and interesting episode.

Do we really think Bernard is dead? I think I he might have anticipated that back door and worked around it.

[arc]

8 hours ago, Stanner said:

But there's been no reason to 'hide' it from Papa Abernathy, as he's never seen it before. Remember, hosts are programmed to not see the things that will harm them and Dolores would be harmed by seeing Juliette in that photo again. Maybe it just caused Abernathy programming problems because his 'mind' couldn't grasp what it could be since he's never seen anything like it before?

No, hosts ignore all modern day things. This was confirmed during Hector's checkup when he was shown a variety of nondescript photos of modern life (like a factory) and didn't find them remarkable.

edit: went back and looked. It was part of the "Self Awareness Protocol". The three images were: clean room factory worker (?), bullet train, and a Shanghai skyline. Hector's response: "they don't look like anything to me."

7 hours ago, meep.meep said:

So, now we know that Theresa wasn't human.  There was a scene with Bernard where she was "paused."

I think she didn't pause in reality. That was Bernard actively examining and recontextualizing his memories. His son also woke up on the hospital bed and the nurses vanished at his command.

Edited November 29, 2016 by arc

[wilnil]

22 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

So, now we know that Theresa wasn't human.  There was a scene with Bernard where she was "paused."

Was that a real event, though, or just Bernard "examining" his memories, akin to the way he "rewrote" Charlie's death scene to bring him back to life? That latter scene makes me distrust the idea that Theresa really froze in place, especially since there was no command or other reason for her to do so.

(Whoops, arc beat me to it.)

Edited November 28, 2016 by wilnil

[stanleyk]

2 hours ago, Gobi said:

I was wondering the same thing, myself. Especially after reading about the official tweet (or whatever it was) about how even the logos have meaning in Westworld, which was a tip-off to the non-linear stories.

I wonder if there aren't some leaks because the showrunners aren't confident the audience will understand what is going on without some outside help. Not every viewer will be parsing the show scene by scene for details to confirm this or that theory...I'd wager a lot of casual viewers wouldn't remember the photo of William's fiance found on the farm and draw the connection with the photo Logan gives him to understand that the photo is evidence of the dual timelines, or take the time to note that the clockwork mechanisms of the older models indicate the scene is happening in the past. I don't watch with the greatest attention myself, so half the reason I come here is so you call can explain to me what I missed! So - if they are leaking some of these twists - maybe it's because they don't trust the audience to follow the plot otherwise. 

[Gobi]

29 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

So, now we know that Theresa wasn't human.  There was a scene with Bernard where she was "paused."

Why didn't the Indians respond to Stubbs commands?

Ford is able to program hosts to respond only to his verbal commands, so if Ford sent them that would explain it. Also explains why Bernard didn't freeze up every time someone said "Freeze all motor functions" until Maeve obtained enhanced powers over the hosts.

[Ellaria]

14 minutes ago, arc said:

No, hosts ignore all modern day things. This was confirmed during Hector's checkup when he was shown a variety of nondescript photos of modern life (like a factory) and didn't find them remarkable.

I think she didn't pause in reality. That was Bernard actively examining and recontextualizing his memories. His son also woke up on the hospital bed and the nurses vanished at his command.

As far as Abernathy and the photo, I wonder if we will see a meeting between him, Dolores and William. Perhaps they meet up with him when he is in one of his pre-Abernathy roles. The photo is now in William's possession so maybe something is yet to happen.

Agree about Theresa; she isn't a host. Her "pause" was in Bernard's memories.

[Rumsy4]

18 minutes ago, arc said:

I think she didn't pause in reality. That was Bernard actively examining and recontextualizing his memories. His son also woke up on the hospital bed and the nurses vanished at his command.

Agree. Theresa was human. Otherwise, there would've been no need for Ford to have her killed.

[Dobian]

The one obvious reason Ford or anyone wouldn't want the robots to be self aware is that once they are self aware then not only do they realize that none of this is real and they are just actors in a role play, but they are not going to be keen on letting themselves be abused/beaten/shot/killed for entertainment.  And if the human operators force them to do this through commands then you will see subversion and outright revolt.  Which is where this is probably headed.

[blackwing]

I'm still confused, and when the season is done and all is revealed, I do hope that there is a concise and easy-to-understand explanation of the timelines.   So Dolores/William/Logan has always been in the past?  When Dolores escaped from Logan and ran to the church, did that become present day somewhere along the way?  Because how is it that Man in Black shows up if he is present day William?  At what point did it shift from past to present?

I can only hope that they get rid of past William for Season 2.  The actor is terrible, and the character is somebody that doesn't make me want to root for him.  After Logan woke up, I was rooting for Logan.

[Gobi]

1 minute ago, blackwing said:

I'm still confused, and when the season is done and all is revealed, I do hope that there is a concise and easy-to-understand explanation of the timelines.   So Dolores/William/Logan has always been in the past?  When Dolores escaped from Logan and ran to the church, did that become present day somewhere along the way?  Because how is it that Man in Black shows up if he is present day William?  At what point did it shift from past to present?

I can only hope that they get rid of past William for Season 2.  The actor is terrible, and the character is somebody that doesn't make me want to root for him.  After Logan woke up, I was rooting for Logan.

Dolores is in the town at least three different times. At the time of the original massacre, wearing a dress; with William after the town was burned/buried, wearing pants; and in the present, when the town has been dug up and rebuilt. The last is when she encounters TMIB again, and is wearing pants.

[CofCinci]

4 hours ago, dgpolo said:

I am left feeling that instead of fan theories what we are experiencing are leaks, either unofficial by someone on the inside who likes seeing the arguments engendered by the leaked info, or official by production to whip up interest in the show. I hope it is not that because I would feel used, it just seems too many theories have been too 'right on' to be completely believable.

But that's just me.

It's not just you.  Many of the 'fan' theories were posted on Reddit early on by day-old accounts with high quality pictures.  Each time those posts were questioned, the mods would delete.  The mods aggressively deleted spoilers/leaks too.  HBO shut down production of this series midway through the season because they were worried that the series would be too confusing.  There has been viral marketing in the guise of 'fan theories' to fill in the gaps that the casual viewer can fall into.

[Unclejosh]

2 hours ago, Netfoot said:

That scene as Ford walked away was a cut to an earlier timeline.  It wasn't Bernard shooting himself, but Arnold committing suicide.  Because in-scene timeline cuts are de rigueur for this show, right?  I mean they are used all the time, to explain everything else...

Couldn't Clementine be seen in the background of that shot?

[arc]

4 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

HBO shut down production of this series midway through the season because they were worried that the series would be too confusing. 

It wasn't that, or at least not primarily. I think the actors have said that by ep 6, scripts were being completed basically on the day of shooting. The producers said they needed the hiatus to get caught up before finishing the shooting. Presumably this was both to write the best story possible and also to take advantage of block shooting wherever possible.

[CofCinci]

6 minutes ago, arc said:

It wasn't that, or at least not primarily. I think the actors have said that by ep 6, scripts were being completed basically on the day of shooting. The producers said they needed the hiatus to get caught up before finishing the shooting. Presumably this was both to write the best story possible and also to take advantage of block shooting wherever possible.

Truth will be revealed. 

[Ellaria]

12 minutes ago, Unclejosh said:

Couldn't Clementine be seen in the background of that shot?

Yes, I believe that she could be seen.

I don't think that there is a timeline discrepancy here. We saw Bernard shoot himself. He may return because Ford will create a new Bernard.

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, stanleyk said:

I wonder if there aren't some leaks because the showrunners aren't confident the audience will understand what is going on without some outside help.

The differences in the labels of the tins of condensed milk dropped by Dolores.  For instance.  Were viewers supposed to spot that tiny difference while viewing the broadcast?  Will there be exposition in the final episode  to point it out?  Or is this show written in such a way that it can't be properly appreciated without a multi-media approach to viewing?

You watch the show, pulling it off your DVR for a second viewing - frame by frame if necessary, visit the website (from which I am blocked, by the way), read thousands of posts on a half dozen forums, watch 50 YouTube speculation/explanation videos per week, remain glued to the appropriate twitter feed(s), stalk the Fecesbook page, and swallow all the leaks dribbled out by TPTB.  Otherwise you have no chance of being able to put it all together.  Because with all the rapid switching back and forth 30 years or so, right in the midst of scenes, it's all so complicated that you are bound to be left with apparent inconsistencies.  And the explanation for these will have slipped passed you by because you blinked.

It remains to be seen what the finale will clear up, but I'm beginning to think this show isn't all that great after all.  Too much handwaving required for the plot to make sense.

[formerlyfreedom]

9 hours ago, Pallas said:

I wonder what Gina Torres is up to.

She's actually been in a couple of episodes. I think she's Bernard's (ex-)wife?

[sneakyflute]

11 hours ago, paramitch said:

39 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

It's not just you.  Many of the 'fan' theories were posted on Reddit early on by day-old accounts with high quality pictures.  Each time those posts were questioned, the mods would delete.  The mods aggressively deleted spoilers/leaks too.  HBO shut down production of this series midway through the season because they were worried that the series would be too confusing.  There has been viral marketing in the guise of 'fan theories' to fill in the gaps that the casual viewer can fall into.

This show wasn't designed to deliver unforeseen twists at every turn. All of these theories were based on evidence that was quite obvious from the beginning. Each episode peeled back another layer, further revealing parallels between William and the person we know as Man in Black. Speculation about Bernard was only natural given the nature of the show. 

[feverfew]

I have Thoughts. But I'm down with the flu and maybe I'm still dreaming.

Ford. Is the Devil, if the Devil could create and not just destroy. He might sound altruistic when he warns Bernard of the consequences of exposing sentient (sorry, @Chris24601 ;)) robots, but in reality he's just "seeking dominion over every living thing" (paraphrased).

Jeffrey Wright broke my heart. Maeve makes it soar.

I'm still on team Dolores/William, but show is making it mighty hard not to believe in those MIB-theories. My one hope is that the MIB who shows up in the church is closer to the old William, not the post-massacre one.

Something to ponder: Angela obviously knows about the maze. And Ford has been playing with those old memories of what happened in Escalante in his new narrative. But how much in control is he really? Because Angela sounds like she's been talking to Arnold too - when she spoke of a ...revolution? to Teddy, she sounded more like Dolores. Is all that planted by Ford? Or has the ghost in the machine (or God's voice aka Arnold) been subverting Ford's new narrative to its own purpose? How many of the old hosts are awakening? All of them? Is mini-Dolores stories happening all over Westworld?

[Solace247]

4 hours ago, jennpawl said:

I was waiting for a proof that William's storyline is in the past so when Logan opened up Dolores I was stoked. I realized last week that if we've been watching a past storyline than present!Dolores has been missing for a bunch of episodes now. I was surprised to see her in the pants and not her blue dress when the MIB walked into the church. I wonder how present!Dolores made it back there to what I assume is Escalante and where she got the outfit from since the William storyline is in the past.

There have been flashes of PresentDolores in the show. The scene where Dolores is on her own on the train, in Pariah, and looking at herself dead in the water, are examples of this. She also gets up after stumbling in the woods with no gaping gut wound in her cowboy clothes. Episode 9 seems to confirm what many have been speculating--that PresentDolores is retracing her jouney with William on her own in present time presumably while experiencing flashbacks to both her time with William and her time in the church town before the park opened (at which time she probably shot up the town with Teddy and killed Arnold). It makes sense since she was unsure as to when she was in time--she wouldn't be as confused when speaking with William, unless she was also experiencing flashbacks to her time in the town the first time, while also visiting it with William. (Clear as mud? My wording is confusing the hell out of me. :) )

TL;DR Dolores has been on this 'loop' before. 

Can't take credit myself. These are just the speculations I've read of here and on reddit. I'm just along for the read and the ride. With regrds to this show, I tend to just agree or disagree with everyone's brilliant analyses. ;) It's been nearly as much fun seeing that people have been bang on regarding time periods. Bernard being Arnold was fun to see unfold. Kudos to the internet!

[kellog010]

I just realized why Stubbs was taken out. He approached Bernard last episode and admitted he knew about Theresa and his relationship. Ford was likely tying up a loose end that had to be taken care of in case Stubbs started piecing things together like Bernard acting strange and Elsie's "vacation".

Edited November 28, 2016 by kellog010

[Gobi]

17 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

The differences in the labels of the tins of condensed milk dropped by Dolores.  For instance.  Were viewers supposed to spot that tiny difference while viewing the broadcast?  Will there be exposition in the final episode  to point it out?  Or is this show written in such a way that it can't be properly appreciated without a multi-media approach to viewing?

You watch the show, pulling it off your DVR for a second viewing - frame by frame if necessary, visit the website (from which I am blocked, by the way), read thousands of posts on a half dozen forums, watch 50 YouTube speculation/explanation videos per week, remain glued to the appropriate twitter feed(s), stalk the Fecesbook page, and swallow all the leaks dribbled out by TPTB.  Otherwise you have no chance of being able to put it all together.  Because with all the rapid switching back and forth 30 years or so, right in the midst of scenes, it's all so complicated that you are bound to be left with apparent inconsistencies.  And the explanation for these will have slipped passed you by because you blinked.

It remains to be seen what the finale will clear up, but I'm beginning to think this show isn't all that great after all.  Too much handwaving required for the plot to make sense.

Overall, I think the show has been fair with the audience, and I'm definitely a fan. You do make some good points, nonetheless.

I never would have noticed the difference in the cans, and even if I did somehow, I would have thought it only meant that they used different props for those scenes. 

The only cheat to me was the scene of Stubbs sending someone to intercept Dolores in the present, followed by that happening in the past. That was a major reason for me holding out against the non-linear stories theory, and I don't expect a clarification at this point.

The show has been navigating the treacherous waters between "the audience are geniuses" and "the audience are idiots", and I prefer that they've treated us as geniuses.

Based on my own predictions, I doubt I would have figured out the reveals on my own. The way they've been done, though, haven't made me feel cheated.

[Gobi]

35 minutes ago, feverfew said:

 

I'm still on team Dolores/William, but show is making it mighty hard not to believe in those MIB-theories. My one hope is that the MIB who shows up in the church is closer to the old William, not the post-massacre one.

I suspect he is. While he was a black hat during his visits, that may have been nothing more than robbing banks, getting into gunfights, whoring, etc. After his wife's death and the incident with Maeve (which he described as the first truly evil thing he had done in Westworld), his actions seem to be geared to bringing the hosts to self-awareness, as well as seeking real danger. His previous attitude towards the hosts as toys could have resulted from his disillusionment with Dolores, assuming that he is William.

This ties in with another theory of mine (probably wrong, given my track record), that the maze is not a place, but is a process. A host repeats the same loop over and over until some event (such as the death of Maeve's daughter) shocks it into consciousness.

It occurs to me that the guests are suffering the fate of Sisyphus, doomed to repeat the same futile task over and over. One of Sisyphus' crimes for which he was punished, by the way, was the murder of travellers and guests.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Gobi
Content.

[dgpolo]

I went to Wikipedia to try to understand more of the source of the title "The Well-Tempered Clavier" it didn't really help but I came across this:

Quote

It was long believed that Bach had taken the title The Well-Tempered Clavier from a similarly-named set of 24 Preludes and Fugues in all the keys, for which a manuscript dated 1689 was found in the library of the Brussels Conservatoire. It was later shown that this was the work of a composer who was not even born in 1689: Bernhard Christian Weber (1 December 1712 – 5 February 1758). It was in fact written in 1745–50, and in imitation of Bach's example.[

The name caught my eye. Weren't people saying that Bernard Lowe was an anagram of Arnold Weber? Even though that last name hasn't been confirmed the Bernhard Weber above was still eye opening to me.

[Abernathy]

What if Maeve's "awakening" and planned rebelion are all part of Ford's "new narrative"?  That would be a hell of a plot twist...

[Gobi]

4 minutes ago, Abernathy said:

What if Maeve's "awakening" and planned rebelion are all part of Ford's "new narrative"?  That would be a hell of a plot twist...

It is odd that Ford hasn't noticed what's going on with Maeve. One would think Ford's alarm bells would have gone off when Maeve froze Bernard.

[Michichick]

26 minutes ago, dgpolo said:

The name caught my eye. Weren't people saying that Bernard Lowe was an anagram of Arnold Weber? Even though that last name hasn't been confirmed the Bernhard Weber above was still eye opening to me.

Arnold's last name is confirmed. During this episode, when Dolores was walking around the area underneath the church (after she rode downstairs via the confessional) she passed a door that said "Arnold Weber."

 

[Gobi]

3 minutes ago, Michichick said:

Arnold's last name is confirmed. During this episode, when Dolores was walking around the area underneath the church (after she rode downstairs via the confessional) she passed a door that said "Arnold Weber."

 

Great catch.

[Michichick]

2 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Great catch.

Thanks, I give credit to my boyfriend because he sent me the screenshot today. Not sure if he noticed it himself or found it somewhere else. I was paying such close attention to this episode but I totally missed it.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Michichick

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, Gobi said:

The only cheat to me was the scene of Stubbs sending someone to intercept Dolores in the present, followed by that happening in the past. That was a major reason for me holding out against the non-linear stories theory, and I don't expect a clarification at this point.

This is a major flaw, in my opinion.  The discussion of the intercept, followed by the actual intercept, were presented as a single event, cause and effect.  As a fact.  Not as something observed by an unreliable witness, Bernard or Theresa, that we can discount.  So, unless they return to that event and explain it, the only way it's going to be consistent is if Stubbs turns out to be a host as well.  

[Bill1978]

4 hours ago, CrashTextDummie said:

This show isn't Lost, folks. Lost threw crazy shit at its viewership and dared them to figure it out without having the faintest idea what it was all supposed to mean itself. Westworld is fully in control of its narrative. It means that the mysteries are way less mysterious and that the twists are less shocking. But it also means it's one of the most rewarding television experiences I've ever had.

After the previous episode confused the bejeebus out of me, this episode was rewarding, satisfying and brilliant. And made me remember why I initially got drawn into this show. I appreciate the intelligent way they showed us the two timelines without having to resort to a character coming out and explaining it to Delores for the audiences sake. This show is really showing the creators of Lost how they should have done that show. Answer questions before presenting more questions.

10 hours ago, numbnut said:

I think Elsie is still alive. Bernard's flashback showed him looking in a mirror while choking Elsie, so his reflection could have triggered a "what am I doing?" moment. Elsie could be hiding out and sent that "ping" to find help.

I like this theory, but only because I don't want to accept that Elsie is dead and that Stubbs is dead as well. I am worried that the way this show is going that there won't be any likeable humans who may want to team up with the hosts to overthrow Corporation. I want more Corporation deaths and less employee deaths. I'm predicting Felix kicks the bucket next week as he is the only human left I care for. Well I care for Ford's outcome but I won't be sad if he dies based upon his personality that has emerged since the show started, especially if it's a host that kills him.

Even though it's unlikely, I still hold out hope that MIB and William are different characters. Is it possible that 'Ford's Dad' could have grown up to be the MIB? Yeah probably not. Just wild spitballing there.

Only a few things had me confused this week. Well not confused more questioning:

1. The show started with the awakening of Dolores and then Dolores waking up Maeve. But this episode strongly hinted that Angela has woken up with the implication others had as well. When did Angela wake up and how? I kinda got the impression that the 'Violent Delights' phrase was a password to waking up or have I got the wrong end of the stick for that. Or is Angela as not like Dolores and Maeve?

2. Was Dolores 'awake' when with William originally or is what we've seen a combination of reality and Dolores' memory?

3. Why was Dolores in pants when she saw MIB? She was in her Alice dress when she left town in the present. Am I too presume she stopped off at Pants R Us on her trouble and got into more appropriate walkabout attire?

4. Dolores' walk through the backstage of Westworld via the Confessional Rabbit Hole was her seeing the aftermath of her original massacre? Cause wow, that's one angry outburst she had.

5. Maeve is constantly being ignored by corporation, so I'm thinking her awakening is linked to Ford's new narrative somehow.

I truly hope that when Teddy arrives back in town he is fully awake. I've been waiting all season for Teddy to wake up. Sounds like original Teddy and Dolores were a bit of a Bonny and Clyde.

And if Dolores can kill herself and still be bought back online, I hold out hope dear Bernard can be bought back online. And when he does I think he will be all about supporting.

 

And I've rambled on for longer than I planned, and probably made myself non-coherent.

[Gobi]

Dolores was always wearing pants when she was in the town in the present. The show was cross-cutting between her time there in the past, the time of the massacre, and in the present when she was retracing her steps.

[Macbeth]

  I would love to see Bernard revived- but Ford did make sure that he killed himself while he was standing in cold storage.

4 hours ago, Unknown poster said:

I agree with the people who think that when all is revealed, Delores will prove to be the inspiration for Wyatt. And thinking back on Ford's attitude and tone when speaking to both her and Teddy, I wonder if they're shared loop as doomed lovers isn't Ford's version of hell, which he's condemned them to for their actions in the (un)buried city so long ago?

When you think about it , they seem to have the most bleak existence of the host a we've seen. Teddy always failing to protect his love, and dieing in front of her eyes. And Delores , forced to witness the murder of everything and everyone she cares for, and then be raped (and likely killed) by the perpetrators . 

That breaks my heart - I believe this to be true.  I remember in an earlier episode when one of the robots was about to rape Dolores and she protected herself.  It appears that Ford has a contingency plan should a guest not be available to attack Dolores.  In his narrative her days should always end in screams.

[arc]

Just now, sneakyflute said:

On several occasions, Logan and William disappeared from the shot yet people insisted that we were seeing only one time period. 

Given that there was a door that wasn't there until it was, which was done that way to highlight the unreliable nature of host perception, I'm not so sure changes in a scene should have necessarily been taken as timeline switches.

[gwhh]

How many seasons is this series suppose to go on for?  

[Ottis]

I'm not sure I'm rooting for the hosts. Surely there are decent humans out there. If hosts take over, will they kill everyone? I'll stick with my belief that the show's message is we all, hosts and guests, are turds.

Did we just learn that humans wiped out life on the planet? Or was that just overly dramatic language from Ford describing human history and the creation of Westworld? 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Ottis

[Pixel]

5 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Agree. Theresa was human. Otherwise, there would've been no need for Ford to have her killed.

Yes. That was a pause in Bernard's memory, not a pause in reality. As far as we currently know, Theresa was human. 

[Dobian]

Just something I remembered, when Ford tells Bernard he might not like what he finds, it reminded me of when Dr. Zaius said the same thing to Charlton Heston in Planet of the Apes, lol.

[Bill1978]

1 hour ago, Gobi said:

Dolores was always wearing pants when she was in the town in the present. The show was cross-cutting between her time there in the past, the time of the massacre, and in the present when she was retracing her steps.

Thankyou, stupid me deleted the earlier episodes, so I can't easily re-watch those scenes for comparisons. I eagerly await for the DVD to be released so I can re-watch and pick up on all the things that I didn't pay close attention to the first time around.

1 hour ago, gwhh said:

How many seasons is this series suppose to go on for?  

I have read 5. With Season 2 possibly not airing until 2018.

I'm just hoping the series doesn't turn into The Adventures of MIB in the Maze. That is the only aspect of the show I don't care about. Even if MIB turns out to be William, I will most likely to struggle to care about MIB's plot. After last week's backstory dump about his personal life, linking his quest to Maeve and this week's strong hints that he is William (thus linking him to the first host we cared about waking up) I fear that this story was designed to be more abut MIB's journey than the host's journey. Which will disappoint me.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Bill1978

[Bnwcat]

I don't understand why Dolores wasn't "awake" at the beginning of the season when she was dragged to the barn by the MIB. Did she gain awareness with William, lose it somehow, and then regain it 30 years later? It seems weird that she would go through all of this and then forget everything until the MIB comes along again. I must be missing something. Can anyone help?

[Kbilly]

I am very confused.

Quote

Dolores' walk through the backstage of Westworld via the Confessional Rabbit Hole was her seeing the aftermath of her original massacre? Cause wow, that's one angry outburst she had.

Maybe I need to rewatch but to me it also looked really long-abandoned/old?

Quote

So what happens when "dead" Bernard is found? Everyone discovers he's a host, and then what? Surely they'll guess that Ford created him and has been fooling them all this time.

Or do they not figure out he's a host and just assume he killed himself? Why would Arnold just leave him there?

During the Man in Black scene with Charlotte when he's like "Stooop! I told you don't interrupt me when I'm playing!" all I could think is, what a dork! He's on the board. "Guys, Man in Black won't be at the meeting today because he's busy following the maze or whatever."

[Lamima]

So when Bernard and Ford are talking Bernard says 'when he made us' or something like that (specifically said 'us'). So does he mean 'all us hosts' in general or does he mean 'us' as in Bernard and Ford? Maybe Ford is also a host???

[Goatherd]

5 hours ago, Netfoot said:

It remains to be seen what the finale will clear up, but I'm beginning to think this show isn't all that great after all.  Too much handwaving required for the plot to make sense.

It does seem like you're not enjoying it. As for me, I'm delighted by a show that rewards careful watching, re-watching, freeze-framing, and note-taking. (Yep, I've done all those things.) I like that the clues that have been left suit different types of watching. For example, I am the sort to notice the changing logo and the different WANTED posters seen by different guests, but I'd be less likely to notice the costume changes that others have kept track of.

This feels like a very modern show -- one that knows we're watching via DVR or through HBO GO, and expects us to share our crazy theories on discussion boards. From my friends who enjoy the show but are not obsessed with it, I hear that it's also enjoyable to watch in a "just let the story be told" way. So while I felt a shiver in my skin at "What door?", they got the same feeling a few minutes later at "It doesn't look like anything to me." 

I'm seriously impressed at what they've crafted in this show. The revelations are exciting, but so are the way they are revealed.

Netfoot, if you still have questions about how it all fits together, I'm sure you can get your answers here. For example, they've shown us that Dolores IS traveling out of her loop in the present -- she's re-tracing the entire voyage she took with William. So that explains the scene where Stubbs was informed she was off her loop. No handwaving required. Yes, we were all fooled (at first at least) by the edit that then showed her approached by the sheriff back in the time of her William trip. Just like we were fooled in episode 1, thinking that Teddy was a guest. And we were fooled into thinking that Bernard was a human. But that's part of the game that makes this show special -- it invites participation, speculation, and active involvement. That's what I came to the show for, since I know what Nolan can do.

And if you just don't like what they've created, and want to keep expressing that here, that's cool, too. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Goatherd

[Rumsy4]

26 minutes ago, Kbilly said:

Maybe I need to rewatch but to me it also looked really long-abandoned/old?

Quote

Dolores' walk through the backstage of Westworld via the Confessional Rabbit Hole was her seeing the aftermath of her original massacre? 

There were several time-flashes. In one flash, as soon as she goes down the confessional elevator and steps inside the corridor, we see a bunch of bodies lying on the floor and inside rooms. Then it to a scene when there is a lot of activity going on and young Ford going into Arnold's room to yell at him. 

23 minutes ago, Lamima said:

So when Bernard and Ford are talking Bernard says 'when he made us' or something like that (specifically said 'us'). So does he mean 'all us hosts' in general or does he mean 'us' as in Bernard and Ford? Maybe Ford is also a host???

He just means hosts like himself. As far as we know, Ford is very much human. 

[arc]

5 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

He just means hosts like himself. As far as we know, Ford is very much human. 

Plus, the show has gone quite out of its way to show younger and younger Robert Fords, while characters we're sure are hosts (Dolores, Bernard) never age.

[beeble]

15 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Technically Felix already treats Maeve as superior to himself.  The only other way to protect the hosts is for them to "eat" the humankind and be the dominant "species".  If the end result is survival of the hosts, perhaps Ford is not going to be mad at Felix afterall.

Felix + Sylvester + Maeve = Weird Science

Maeve now has to drive these two dorks around in a convertible as part of their madcap adventure. 

[jeansheridan]

I was trying to freeze frame on the dead hosts when Dolores was walking through the hall.  I thought one looked like Angela.

I still don't understand how there can be these massive abandoned sub-basements.  Why is the morgue so remote and unsanitary for expensive pieces of macinery?  My work has one creepy storage room.  Not 83 floors of abandoned mess.  Seems very odd. And Elsie was in an abandoned theater. Why abandon assets?

It did not occur to me that Angela is spouting Ford's ideas.  Interesting.   And poor Teddy.  James Marsden deserves better. 

[formerlyfreedom]

40 minutes ago, beeble said:

Maeve now has to drive these two dorks around in a convertible as part of their madcap adventure. 

You know what, I would SERIOUSLY watch the hell out of this show.