S03.E05: Monster

[Trini]

Quote

Desperate to understand what is happening to her, Caitlin visits her mother, Dr. Tannhauser (guest star Susan Walters), a renowned biomedical researcher, in the hopes that her mother can provide some answers about Caitlin's growing meta-human powers. However, when Dr. Tannhauser treats her daughter like a test subject, Caitlin grows cold and brings up past wounds causing the two to have a major blowout. Meanwhile, after a mysterious new meta-human attacks Central City, Barry tries to convince Julian to let him assist on the case.

Kim Miles directed the episode written by Zack Stentz

[Trini]

Why are the marketing and promo so divided?? The trailer for this episode shows nothing related to the episode description, and vice versa.

[BkWurm1]

The network controls the promo, not the show runners.  The show controls the episode discription. 

[Trini]

It's just that this is supposed to be a big Caitlin episode, but you'd never be able to tell that from the trailer. I'll admit that the monster makes a better trailer, but I bet it's only in half the episode - if even.

[johntfs]

It's interesting that the CSIs didn't solve this earlier through simple observation like "Hey, anybody else notice that the huge, heavy-looking monster isn't leaving any footprints/damage in the streets?"

I liked that we learned more about Julian.  Maybe his anger at Barry ignoring the rules comes from seeing wealthy, powerful people in his own family ignore them and suffer no consequences.

Loved "idea guy" Harrison Wells.  We really are going to have a new version of this character every season, aren't we?  I wonder when we'll see Chekov's, er, Wells' partner.

I also figure we're going to see hologram kid again at some point.

So, is Caitlyn's surname in this timeline actually Snow or did she marry some guy named Snow?  Caitmom doesn't seem like she'd remarry.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Aaaaand Monster was a FAKEAROONI!!!!!!!! (insert rolling eyes emoji here).

And this Earth 19's Harrison is one that isn't a....scientist! He's a faker! Or is he? That tape recording could be that he was a faker and that our team didn't know he was a faker, which was the real reason he was there--to write a book. Or it could be he's faking being a faker.... cue ominous music.

Oh boo hoo woo! Julian hates all the metas, including Flash because he wasn't affected by the Particle Accelerator! Though he was redeemed by the end. I will admit though, Barry's/Grant's "It 'TIS!" kept running through my head every time these two were in scenes together!

So, is Caitlyn's mom being sincere that she doesn't want to use her for experiments? I think so, if the expression on her face was any indication. I did like how white her eyes got when Killer Frost took over.

Not quite as light and fun as Season one, BUT...this season is closer to season one in tone than the gloom and doom and angst-ridden slog that was last season.

So, yay?

Edited November 2, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[ottoDbusdriver]

So, was the 15 year old a meta, or just a kid with mad computer holography skillz ?  Why didn't Flash snap up the hologram projector because that could come in handy later ?

H.R. finally gets outed as 'the idea guy', but can't actually DO anything.  I'm still not buying his novelist excuse.

Edited November 2, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

So, was the 15 year old a meta, or just a kid with mad computer holography skillz ?  Why didn't Flash snap up the hologram projector because that could come in handy later ?

H.R. finally gets outed as 'the idea guy', but can't actually DO anything.  I'm still not buying his novelist excuse.

No, I think he was just a kid who was bullied constantly in school and was always scared. This was his way to scare people back.

[benteen]

Second week in a row I very much enjoyed.  Strong episode for Tom Felton.  This Wells was annoying the him as the "idea guy" is interesting.

Just tell Barry and Cisco about your powers, Caitlin!  It would have been easier than being subjected to badly acted scenes between DP and the actress playing her mother.

I wish it had been a big monster but the hologram thing I kinda liked.

Edited November 2, 2016 by benteen

[Lantern7]

You know what would have been a fun twist? If Puffenstuff (I can't be the only one) was from an Earth where Barry and his friends were fictional characters, and Wells wanted to escape into a fantasy sci-fi world. I'm betting that the idea was kicked around, then they went with Hipster Huckster Wells.

Meh episode. Apparently, Caitlin will never be as frosty as her mother. And her right-hand guy is easily the biggest idiot in Central City, and that includes Barry and Huckster. "I'm tired of being in your mother's shadow, so I'm gonna experiment on you and make a name for mys- . . . holy shit. my hand is shattering! Who could have foreseen this development?!?"

At least Julian got some depth. Nice that he and Barry can find common ground. It'll be sad when Julian turns out to be Alchemy, because the show can be predictable like that.

Gotta shake my head at the "It Gets Better" message in the end. If I had those skills as a teen, you think I'd make up a rampaging monster? Well . . . maybe just to brown the pants of my "peers," but I wouldn't go for widespread panic.

[ottoDbusdriver]

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No, I think he was just a kid who was bullied constantly in school and was always scared. This was his way to scare people back.

But shouldn't he have been scaring the bullies that were picking on him ?  Versus regular citizens on the street.

He should have created a kickstarter and sold that kind of tech for millions.

Edited November 2, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

But shouldn't he have been scaring the bullies that were picking on him ?  Versus regular citizens on the street.

He should have created a kickstarter and sold that kind of tech for millions.

Come on now, @ottoDbusdriver! You're being logical here! Either they didn't know how to write for him, or it's just, you know, plot contrivance in order to make Julian "see the light."

[bmoore4026]

Jesus, I couldn't have cared less about this episode.  I did like Chubby Hologram Kid.  I hope he joins the cast.

Oh, and Hipster Wells is a shithead.  No surprise.  That's actually good, because it gives Team Flash to figure things out for themselves.

And Caitlyn still can't act.

[DearEvette]

28 minutes ago, johntfs said:

I liked that we learned more about Julian.  Maybe his anger at Barry ignoring the rules comes from seeing wealthy, powerful people in his own family ignore them and suffer no consequences.

Heh.  His backstory is essentially Draco Malfoy's minus the Nazi Death eater father.

[SnoGirl]

I loved Cisco's apartment. Can we please go back and see more of his place, I'm so jealous. What a fun apartment.

Oh man, I think I might have a crack ship, I can't unimagine Caitlyn and Snark? Which sucks, because I'm a Captain Canary fan. But I really want to see these two cold fools marvel over their frosty skills. 

Oh Julian Malfoy. I really hope you're not the bad guy, it would be nice if Barry had a muggle friend who didnt know (but I really thought Barry was going to tell him at the end).

[mtlchick]

So Tom was told "So you're the hipster version now so you're getting a hair cut, wear a hat and vest and you're not actually smart but creative, k?  And...action!"  (The mime version would have been better.) 

Hated Julian's reasoning.  Loving Felton though.

The season is a weird mix of things, but it's not COMPLETELY the gloom and doom of last season so it's a start. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

Just now, SnoGirl said:

I loved Cisco's apartment. Can we please go back and see more of his place, I'm so jealous. What a fun apartment.

How does Barry's speed ...... speed up food cooking times exactly ?

[KirkB]

That was...kind of a pointless episode. It didn't further the narrative, since neither Alchemy nor any metas were present. The only person who got any real character development was Julian, and he's not even a cast member. The villain wasn't really a villain. Wells isn't what he says he is, which I think we all already knew. Caitlin's relationship with her mother might have been more interesting if we had any idea the woman even existed before now. I mean, obviously we know she must have had a mother, but I only recall one brief mention of their being estranged in the the past.

Still, as has been said, better than last season.

[thuganomics85]

So, Hipster Harry isn't an actual scientist but an "ideas man?"  Alrighty, then.  I guess he'll somehow prove his worthy in the upcoming weeks, because I don't see him getting shipped off anytime soon.  I did enjoy everyone (especially Cisco's) annoyed reaction to his random sayings (from his Earth?), and the points when he was obviously trying to bullshit his way out of something.

Julian background, I see.  He's from a rich family that never fit in, and his reason for hating metas was because he can't understand why someone with so much power, would do things like commit crimes, and he wishes he had powers instead. But "Flash" seemed to soften him up a bit.  He was even being civil to Barry!  Tom Felton continues to be one of the highlights of this season so far.  And if we ever meet his family, I will forgive this show for almost everything, if they get Jason Issac to play his dad.

Caitlin meets her mom to try and find out how to fix her powers, only for the assistant to try and do something bad instead.  But at least she and her mom's "frosty" (sorry) relationship seems to have thawed (sorry, again).  But now she finds out the more she uses her powers, the harder it will be to reverse them.  Uh oh!

I guess I'm suppose to care about this whole "Joe date the way hot DA, because he isn't over his ex" thing?  Certainly hope this isn't what Iris is going to get saddled with for the majority of her future screen time.

Had a feeling that the monster was going to be a hologram.  Hopefully they're just binding their time for either the return of Grodd or King Shark.  Or maybe both!  Gorilla Grodd vs. King Shark!  Besides that, it was just mainly a lead up to the weirdest anti-bullying PSA ad ever.  I guess this week's Arrow will be about the importance of voting or something.

Edited November 2, 2016 by thuganomics85

[catrice2]

Didn't Barry have his own apartment at some point? I seem to remember one, and that it was ok, maybe loft like?  I found this episode boring and Julian is pointless. I did not care about his backstory.  Barry is always trying to bond with somebody.

Next time we get poor Wally. Are they putting off Barry having his own place so they can stall on advancing his relationship with Iris? 

Could the whole Harry thing be worse?  Surely they are not falling for the book story?

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Didn't Barry have his own apartment at some point? I seem to remember one, and that it was ok, maybe loft like?  

Yes, he did. But when Iris moved in with Eddie in the first season, he gave up his apartment and moved back home so Joe wouldn't be lonely.

[Lady Calypso]

HR is very annoying. Sorry Tom Cavanagh, but I'm going to need less of you in order to be able to watch many of the STAR Labs scenes. So, he's not even a real scientist and doesn't seem to know anything. It seems like since Cisco has gotten 50% less light-hearted and humourous, that they needed to replace comic relief Cisco with comic relief HR.

So, who is this partner? Maybe we'll meet him and it'll be a character that we've seen. 

I enjoyed hearing more about Julian and his reasons for hating metas. At least he probably isn't Alchemy? Tom Felton is very much a highlight even if his character can be dumb. 

Also, is it just me, or did Julian look like a young Rip Hunter when he found the hacker kid? 

So, Barry/Cisco are living together. Of course they are. But maybe it'll be a fun dynamic. 

So, Caitlin's dumb for still hiding this secret from her friends, but clearly it's a plot issue and not a character issue. The show just wants this secret hidden, no matter how stupid it is. At least we got Caitlin and her mom. I enjoyed seeing those scenes. Plus, I still enjoy Caitlin becoming Killer Frost. It'll be fun to see her being exposed to her friends finally. 

[ruby24]

10 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

 

Next time we get poor Wally. Are they putting off Barry having his own place so they can stall on advancing his relationship with Iris? 

 

Bingo. I predict they're just trying to wait an appropriate amount of time before they can have Barry and Iris move in together and get their own place (and a new set for it). Mid-season I bet.

I thought this one was pretty dull but I like that the show has gone back to the lighter tone of the first season. For the most part, anyway. Barry's certainly not broody or whiny anymore and that's a huge improvement. Cisco's the one who seems kinda moody this season, but I guess they did that on purpose by killing his brother and everything.

Edited November 2, 2016 by ruby24

[ottoDbusdriver]

10 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Yes, he did. But when Iris moved in with Eddie in the first season, he gave up his apartment and moved back home so Joe wouldn't be lonely.

Or did Barry have his own apartment ... because Flashpoint.

 

Seriously, 'Flashpoint' is becoming the catch all excuse for anything, much like nanites on 'Revolution'.

Edited November 2, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[Last Time Lord]

My number one takeaway from this episode?

I really want to watch Murder On The Titanic. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

7 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Or did Barry have his own apartment ... because Flashpoint.

 

Seriously, 'Flashpoint' is becoming the catch all excuse for anything, much like nanites on 'Revolution'.

STAHPPPPPPPPP!!!! I can't take anymore of ..."Because...Flashpoint!" I'm begging y'all!!!!

 

[catrice2]

I get Flashpoint, but Barry would remember he once lived in an apartment right? I actually was just wondering if I remembered the 1st season correctly.  It was such a nice, fun show, and after last year I think I imagined it all.  

[zannej]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

It's interesting that the CSIs didn't solve this earlier through simple observation like "Hey, anybody else notice that the huge, heavy-looking monster isn't leaving any footprints/damage in the streets?"

I liked that we learned more about Julian.  Maybe his anger at Barry ignoring the rules comes from seeing wealthy, powerful people in his own family ignore them and suffer no consequences.

Loved "idea guy" Harrison Wells.  We really are going to have a new version of this character every season, aren't we?  I wonder when we'll see Chekov's, er, Wells' partner.

I also figure we're going to see hologram kid again at some point.

So, is Caitlyn's surname in this timeline actually Snow or did she marry some guy named Snow?  Caitmom doesn't seem like she'd remarry.

Good point about the CSI's lack of noticing that it didn't leave any visible signs of going through-- and why weren't there any cellphone videos of it? Surely in this day and age at least one person would have stopped to video it (albeit from a safe distance). And wouldn't it have gone through objects and such? There is no way the kid could have controlled it so perfectly that it wouldn't have passed through things prior to Barry trying to trap it.

I love Tom Cavanagh, but I have to admit that this is so far my least favorite of his characters on the show. I hope that I grow to like him more with time though. I just am not sure how useful the "idea man" thing will be for them. And I don't know if he can ever really bond with the team the way the previous iterations did. It would be nice to meet HR's partner. I wonder if the partner just really cares about him or wanted to get rid of him.

I suspect Caitlin's mother is using her maiden name instead of married name. Speaking of the mother, I know she is supposed to be cold, but she really didn't react much to Caitlin saying her husband died. Did the mother even know that Caitlin was married?

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

So, was the 15 year old a meta, or just a kid with mad computer holography skillz ?  Why didn't Flash snap up the hologram projector because that could come in handy later ?

H.R. finally gets outed as 'the idea guy', but can't actually DO anything.  I'm still not buying his novelist excuse.

Yeah, it seemed odd that the kid could pull that off with almost zero explanation of how. And they didn't think to introduce him to Cisco (who could maybe mentor him a little). I think Barry didn't take the projector because it was evidence of the crime.

I wonder if it will turn out that HR's partner is somehow in league with Alchemy. I was a bit disappointed that HR turned out to be a fraud, but I'm not surprised. I admit that I like scientist types, so I wanted another scientist Wells.

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

You know what would have been a fun twist? If Puffenstuff (I can't be the only one) was from an Earth where Barry and his friends were fictional characters, and Wells wanted to escape into a fantasy sci-fi world. I'm betting that the idea was kicked around, then they went with Hipster Huckster Wells.

Meh episode. Apparently, Caitlin will never be as frosty as her mother. And her right-hand guy is easily the biggest idiot in Central City, and that includes Barry and Huckster. "I'm tired of being in your mother's shadow, so I'm gonna experiment on you and make a name for mys- . . . holy shit. my hand is shattering! Who could have foreseen this development?!?"

At least Julian got some depth. Nice that he and Barry can find common ground. It'll be sad when Julian turns out to be Alchemy, because the show can be predictable like that.

Gotta shake my head at the "It Gets Better" message in the end. If I had those skills as a teen, you think I'd make up a rampaging monster? Well . . . maybe just to brown the pants of my "peers," but I wouldn't go for widespread panic.

I bet HR could probably load up on coffee seeds from Earth-1 and make a huge profit by taking them back to Earth-19 (assuming that story about coffee being gone was true). Kinda reminds me of Eobard saying the cows were all gone from his timeline.

Caitlin's mother's partner trying to trap her was just absolutely idiotic. She could have used her powers to break the door. And the exchange with her mother over the incident was far too quick. I felt like it was rushed.

I rolled my eyes at Joe's "it gets better" thing. That doesn't usually work and it isn't even true. Things don't always get better. I have friends who were bullied in school and still get bullied at work. But, what Joe could have done was pointed out that his son (Barry) was bullied in school and was now a CSI for the police. And then there is Cisco who was bullied and he's a scientist who makes really cool stuff and helps people-- he wouldn't even have to mention the Flash at all.

59 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

How does Barry's speed ...... speed up food cooking times exactly ?

Plotforce! Actually, maybe he extended the speedforce around the cookware and stove and made things cook faster. Or maybe he was just zipping back and forth to check on things and it cooked at normal pace but just looked super fast to viewers. I wonder why Cisco was being grumpy about it. I guess he just wanted some space.

8 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Didn't Barry have his own apartment at some point? I seem to remember one, and that it was ok, maybe loft like?  I found this episode boring and Julian is pointless. I did not care about his backstory.  Barry is always trying to bond with somebody.

Next time we get poor Wally. Are they putting off Barry having his own place so they can stall on advancing his relationship with Iris? 

Could the whole Harry thing be worse?  Surely they are not falling for the book story?

Yes. Barry had his own apartment in the pilot episode but when Iris moved in with Eddie, Barry decided to move back in with Joe for some reason. I can't recall if we ever actually saw Barry's apartment. We saw Caitlin's bedroom, Barry's bedroom at the West house, Barry's childhood bedroom and house, Eobard's house, Eddie's bedroom, and now we've seen Cisco's kitchen.

I actually think it is in character for Barry to try to befriend Julian. For one, it was in his best interests, but he's also the kind of person who tries to make friends when he can.

It was nice seeing Iris briefly. She just appeared out of nowhere trying to get the bus door open, but I was glad to see her. I suspect that Barry and Iris may end up moving in together at some point this season-- at least I hope so.

I like Cecile, but I wonder if one of Joe's concerns is that it would be too difficult to explain all of the weird stuff to her. Particularly since they have done some illegal things and she refused to condone/help with illegal stuff in season 1.

9 minutes ago, Last Time Lord said:

My number one takeaway from this episode?

I really want to watch Murder On The Titanic. 

Me too! Loved the description-- who cares! We're all going to drown! LOL.

I really like Tom Felton and he gave such a great performance. I still wonder if he knows or suspects that Barry is the Flash. Barry outright saved him and his response was "Cheers". He did seem genuinely shaken about nearly shooting the boy and he seemed to really take what Barry said to heart. So, thus far in the episode we learned that he served in the military and came from a rich family but they were controlling and he had to leave the UK to be able to pursue his interest in science.

And HR is really an author and "muse" but he's always playing with drumsticks as if he's a musician. I do wonder how much of what he says is BS and how much is true.

Caitlin not telling the team about her powers at this point is asinine.

I know that after what he went through, Cisco is still mourning and that can take a long time, but I miss happy goofy Cisco.

[Lantern7]

I doubt coffee is rare/extinct on Earth-Huckster. Where would he get the idea? Fringe. Circle of life!

[benteen]

The line was in the preview and all the commercials but I still liked HR's "Empire of the Sun" bit.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I loved Barry's "Iris, what are you doing here?" When he went to the trapped bus and saw she was trying to pry the doors open.

It was so...normal, you know? That she knows who he is, and doesn't have to lie to her about who he is?

It just gave me the warm fuzzies.

Edited November 2, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[zannej]

I found myself wishing that Caitlin had actually told her mother that part of the reason she wasn't in contact was because her boss turned out to be a murderer, her husband died, and a guy started to fall in love with turned out to be a psychopathic serial killer who kidnapped her. Yeah, it seems her mother had negative feelings about Dr. Wells, although she didn't call him a murderer. I wonder if she even knew about that.

[ottoDbusdriver]

58 minutes ago, zannej said:

It was nice seeing Iris briefly. She just appeared out of nowhere trying to get the bus door open, but I was glad to see her. I suspect that Barry and Iris may end up moving in together at some point this season-- at least I hope so.

 

30 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I loved Barry's "Iris, what are you doing here?" When he went to the trapped bus and saw she was trying to pry the doors open.

It was so...normal, you know? That she knows who he is, and doesn't have to lie to her about who he is?

It just gave me the warm fuzzies.

Iris just appearing out of nowhere to help rescue the bus passengers was just so random.  Did the bus conveniently crash outside the front entrance to CCPN ?

[NeedTVRehab]

3 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

How does Barry's speed ...... speed up food cooking times exactly ?

I was wondering that myself!  No wonder Cisco didn't want those raw eggs!

[BkWurm1]

I liked it for the most part.  Julian/Tom is great.  I'm pretty happy with keeping him around as long as possible.  

HR I think has potential.  He was weird and a bit annoying in this episode but that was done on purpose and I like the idea that he's not the guy that can fix it all.  He can help but he no longer could replace the team.  And I like hearing about the differences between Earths so that's fun too.  

I am still confused about what Joe's hang up is.  Even more confused why the show is stretching whatever it is out so it becomes a thing.

Then there is Caitlin.  They are going to turn her evil, aren't they.  

It infuriates me that she's not going to be allowed to have powers without going evil.  She's probably going to go on a rampage and they will have to cure her so she's no longer a killer.  

Everyone else that has gotten powers hasn't been made evil, just that it brings out who they really are.  NOTHING has hinted that Caitlin is a killer but she uses her powers and suddenly her eyes go evil.  I mean, they weren't very subtle.  Her mom's assistant goes mad scientist on her and she gives him a little taste of the cold and mommy dearest suddenly has to remind Caitlin that she's not a killer!  And Caitlin reacts like she NEEDED the reminder.  

Sigh.       

[zannej]

On a weird side note, did anyone else notice that it looked like H.R. had some sort of scar above his left eyebrow? Either a scar or a cut. I don't have a still image from the episode, but I have this shot of Tom Felton and Tom Cavanagh together where you can see the thing above the eyebrow.

Could it be makeup or do you think Tom C banged his head again?

[AudienceofOne]

On 02/11/2016 at 1:22 PM, Last Time Lord said:

My number one takeaway from this episode?

I really want to watch Murder On The Titanic. 

I finished watching it ten minutes ago and I no longer remember what happened except for that line about 'Who killed him? Who cares, we're sinking!" which was amazing. But other than that, alternaverse Wells can go.

Either Julian is secretly evil or I see no point to him.

Oh, wait, no... Alchemy offers him powers from the alternative timeline and he becomes the monster he was determined no to be. Ok, I could see that.

Edited November 6, 2016 by AudienceofOne

[ruby24]

6 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

Oh, wait, no... Alchemy offers him powers from the alternative timeline and he becomes the monster he was determined no to be. Ok, I could see that.

This seems likely to me. I just can't see how they don't take the chance to make Malfoy an evil magician somehow, lol. Too obvious or not, it must happen.

[cambridgeguy]

Hopefully HR gets toned down a little now that his presumed secret is out of the bag.  There's no reason to babble and twitch as much if he's not trying to divert attention from his lack of science skills.

If the team really wants another scientist they should look up Dr. McGee.  Mercury labs might have been turned into a pile of rubble but she is supposed to be one of the smartest people around and she's more grounded than the entire team put together. 

[Chris24601]

4 hours ago, ruby24 said:

This seems likely to me. I just can't see how they don't take the chance to make Malfoy an evil magician somehow, lol. Too obvious or not, it must happen.

I dunno, I kind of enjoy the poetic nature of Draco Malfoy stuck as a Muggle in a world of magic and annoyed that he doesn't have the gift that a rare few elite have.

[Primetimer]

Monsters like...this very one, in fact!

View the full article

[ottoDbusdriver]

Couple of other nitpicks about the monster -- unless the 15 year old kid had a kickass sound system hooked up, where did the impact sounds as the creature walked and monster noises come from ?  And if it was only a hologram, how was it casting shadows on the ground during the daylight 'attacks' ?

That had to be the most damage EVER caused by a light pole striking a bus -- it basically collapsed the entire roof.

I don't think Barry has ever seen Return of the Jedi -- because his solution with the carbon fiber rope was more tripping hazard vs. taking down an AT-AT.  If he had done it properly it would mean he would have discovered the hologram sooner.

And did the producers buy some sort of new super slo-mo CGI package because we got not 1 but 2 super slo-mo bullet sequences this episode -- thereby justifying it's purchase.  I also liked the non-reaction by the woman when Flash grabbed the bullet from right in front of her face -- like Flash's hand appearing in front of her to save her life is an everyday occurrence.

[Cekrypton1]

A whole multiverse of Wells and each one is the best thing on their planet. Tom Cavanaugh is a national treasure.

[maxineofarc]

Julian is turning out to be kind of divisive, but I'm afraid I fell in love with him a little bit this episode. Little Malfoy's all grown up! The scene with him and Barry at the end could have been a maudlin disaster, the way it was written, but the acting on both sides 100% sold it for me. If he's that bitter about not having superpowers, he can't be Alchemy, right? But then he's bitter about people getting superpowers and using them badly, just the sort of thing that would have made Alchemy kill one of his own newly minted metas. It would be pretty terrible if all you could do was give other people powers but not be able to use any yourself... now I'm tying myself in knots. So did Flashpoint change the timeline to bring Julian to Central City, or did it somehow change it to make him exist at all?

I'm okay with dialing Cisco's chipperness back a little this season, but honestly I miss it. How long does it take to find an apartment in Central City? There's zero reason Cisco should let Barry live with him, and he seems to be regretting it too. It's going to take a lot more than bacon for him to get over his bitterness that Barry won't change the fabric of space and time for him when he's been pretty casual about doing it for himself and not caring how it affects others.

I wish I had something to say about Caitlin but I got nothin' until I see where this is going. What would having permanent freeze powers be like, anyway? Would it be like King Midas only everything you touch turns to ice? Using her powers seems to activate her "evil" side somehow when this hasn't been a side effect for anybody else? I really want this poor woman to have a decent storyline that isn't about her in relation to some guy or other. It was nice to see her and Cisco sitting and talking down near the pipeline as we've seen them do in the past. I like their friendship.

Still on the Cavanagh boat. He sells me on this person who looks the same being a completely different character every season. Fast talker HR was exposed pretty quickly, but for an "idea man," Cisco still seemed to have most of the actual ideas. Who was his partner in Star Labs who actually solved the equation? Will we be seeing him later?

[Sakura12]

So Barry moved out Joe's house to Cisco's. Barry just puts himself anywhere doesn't he. I'm sure he could've continued to live with Joe until he finds his own place. And if he and Iris want alone time, go to Iris' place. It's not that difficult to think of that. I thought Barry was supposed to be this amazing genius? 

I really hope they give Caitlin her comic story of needing the heat energy of others to live. Her having to kill people as a survival instinct would be more interesting than her powers making her evil for no real reason. 

I like Tom Cavanagh, but I'm not feeling HR. I don't think he's needed and if we are going to get a different Wells every season then he's even more unnecessary. 

[JapMo]

This episode was perplexing.  The "Monster" turned out to be a hologram from the evil mind of a bullied teenager?  Eyeroll.  I could have accepted that, but there was so much other stuff going on.  It was like someone told the writers they had to address Julian's backstory, Caitlyn's mother, the introduction of HR, a scene about Joe and a potential love interest, something about where Barry is living, give Iris a few scenes, etc etc.  There was no cohesiveness, IMO...it just seemed like random scenes all piled on top of each other.  What was the point of the lab assistant turned weird crazy guy?   

[ACW]

2 hours ago, maxineofarc said:

Julian is turning out to be kind of divisive, but I'm afraid I fell in love with him a little bit this episode. Little Malfoy's all grown up! The scene with him and Barry at the end could have been a maudlin disaster, the way it was written, but the acting on both sides 100% sold it for me. If he's that bitter about not having superpowers, he can't be Alchemy, right? But then he's bitter about people getting superpowers and using them badly, just the sort of thing that would have made Alchemy kill one of his own newly minted metas.

...

I'm okay with dialing Cisco's chipperness back a little this season, but honestly I miss it. How long does it take to find an apartment in Central City?

Re: Dr. Alchemy - (info from old comics)

Spoiler

In the silver-age comics, "Dr. Alchemy" is 1/3 of a split personality.  The other 2/3 are "Mr. Element" (science-based criminal with a "chemical elements" theme); and the original personality, a chemist friend of Barry's, who for a long time is unaware of the other two.

So, yes, Malfoy may already be a wizard, but not know it.

Re: Housing in Central City.  It's probably getting full of all the refugees who must have fled the hellscape that is Star City over the years.  So really, Barry should just get a bargain-priced place in Star City, and commute.  Though that only works if Iris doesn't get motion sick when Barry carries her to his Star City Love Shack.

[ohjoy]

Did the writers decide that we all hate quippy, funny Cisco and forget to tell me? I liked "grey" Wells and "fun" (or at least "funnier") Cisco, and now I've got neither. I was enjoying Julian too, but couldn't he have softened toward the Flash but not Barry? I liked the idea that somebody, somewhere wouldn't fall prey to Barry's charms. He needs a foil. Not a villain, but a foil in his everyday life.

Sigh. The episode was okay, I guess. I just miss the characters I used to know.

[JapMo]

Quote

11 minutes ago, RandomMe said:

I was enjoying Julian too, but couldn't he have softened toward the Flash but not Barry? I liked the idea that somebody, somewhere wouldn't fall prey to Barry's charms. He needs a foil. Not a villain, but a foil in his everyday life.

Hear, hear.  I wanted snarky Julian to go on at least another 5 episodes.  Then gradually show his backstory. 

[maxineofarc]

1 hour ago, ACW said:

Re: Dr. Alchemy - (info from old comics)

 

Oh, interesting. Obviously I have No Prior Knowledge of the comics, or at least No Extensive Knowledge. I wonder if that's one reason I've managed to get so involved in the show.

I'm hoping Julian isn't going to turn completely on a dime and now be Barry's BFF- they've worked together for a year and their relationship has been pretty lousy that whole time, so hopefully he will retain his snark a while yet. One drink and a heart to heart or two is a good start, but working relationships are weird things. (There is now an ocean of Julian/Barry fanfiction, isn't there?)