Post-Election Fears & Anxieties

[KIMBERLYANN11]

1 hour ago, VMepicgrl said:

Another company to support is Starbucks. In addition to having shown support for Hillary for awhile, they have spoken in support of our diverse society. And I also just went on twitter for the first time and saw this retweeted: "Sitting here in Starbucks, which is training its local employees on aiding LGBT people targeted by hate crimes & how to provide safe space."

I can't stand Starbucks coffee, but my girl likes it so she'll be getting gift cards on a regular basis throughout the year..

[WendyCR72]

A part of me does wonder if Trump has bitten off far more than he can chew. I think he wanted to see if he could be president. I don't think he expected to actually win and do the job. He now has to put up or shut up. And for someone with no political experience AT ALL, that must make him want to shit his pants.

And some can spout "Businessman!", but let's be rational: The man has had bankruptcies galore. If he can't run his own businesses, how the hell will he run the country?

Still, I think this was some sort of attention-grabbing publicity stunt gone awry, but the public let him con them. Now he is in the fishbowl, stuck. I honestly would not be at all surprised if we get the second time a president quits office. And as much as I do hate Trump and his racist/sexist rhetoric, I fear that possibility even more, because at least Trump's crazy isn't mixed with religious radicalism as Mike Pence's views are. And, to be ironic, Lord help us then.

[abstractstuff]

7 minutes ago, backgroundnoise said:

Ok.  Let's say I believe Trump's core is not racist, that that is just the fringe, do you think he owes the country an apology for his rhetoric? 

I really would like a Trump voter to answer that question.  

I never said he wasn't racist. I think he said what he needed to say to cater to the fucking morons that would be voting for him.. And it worked.. But on the other hand, I see people completely breaking down and losing their minds and that is just as disappointing..That's what people are not understanding. I am not a Trump voter. I voted for Hillary. But, I refuse to crawl in a corner and cry and not leave my house and everything else I am seeing. People cannot leave their homes.. They are saying they literally cannot function.. That is fucking pathetic.. And it is exactly what was expected. 

[backgroundnoise]

I guess I'm still not being clear. 

There are people who voted for Trump who are offended by those of us who consider them racist for being able to  vote for Trump in spite of the racist things he's said and done.   For those Trump voters:   Are you okay with what he said to the NYT today, that he didn't go too far because "I won", or do you think he owes the country an apology?

[EyewatchTV211]

She may not have been as popular as Obama, but numbers indicate that it may not be true that Hillary lost because she's such a terrible candidate. Besides President Obama, by the end of this it is likely that more people voted for her than other presidents/candidates in recent history.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/11/11/did_clinton_fail_to_turn_out_registered_democrats.html

Edited November 12, 2016 by VMepicgrl

[abstractstuff]

10 minutes ago, backgroundnoise said:

I guess I'm still not being clear. 

There are people who voted for Trump who are offended by those of us who consider them racist for being able to  vote for Trump in spite of the racist things he's said and done.   For those Trump voters:   Are you okay with what he said to the NYT today, that he didn't go too far because "I won", or do you think he owes the country an apology?

Well sure! But, that will not happen.. Apologies and powdering bottoms is not going to be happening. Nothing that troll says is okay. But that is who he is.. He is not going to apologize. And half the country voted for him. He has no fucking clue what he is doing. And he will not last. I am worried about Pence. I am worried about the Supreme Court. Trump is a fucking moron.. He catered to the morons and he won. The left was much too cocky and now they are having to deal and they are not doing a very good job. They are punking out. On their knees wheeping. Unable to leave their homes. Playing right into the whole game.. 

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, abstractstuff said:

Well sure! But, that will not happen.. Apologies and powdering bottoms is not going to be happening. Nothing that troll says is okay. But that is who he is.. He is not going to apologize. And half the country voted for him. He has no fucking clue what he is doing. And he will not last. I am worried about Pence. I am worried about the Supreme Court. Trump is a fucking moron.. He catered to the morons and he won. The left was much too cocky and now they are having to deal and they are not doing a very good job. They are punking out. On their knees wheeping. Unable to leave their homes. Playing right into the whole game.. 

I don't understand your point.  You seem to be mocking people who are quite literally frightened and feel their lives are endangered and that their upset is going to be a permanent condition. 

What advice do you have to help those that are struggling? I mean real advice beyond "quit whining".  Something constructive.

[crayon78]

26 minutes ago, abstractstuff said:

But, I refuse to crawl in a corner and cry and not leave my house and everything else I am seeing. People cannot leave their homes.. They are saying they literally cannot function.. That is fucking pathetic.

They are also things that happen with depression, which is part of grief, which people are genuinely feeling. There have been so many pages here that I can't remember if the link to that Why We Grieve Today post was mentioned, but if not, I can add it. I don't think anyone has said they intend to cry and stay home for four years. It hasn't even been four days. People are different and they feel things differently. Let people cope and self-care in their own way. Some people are ready to fight back and return to "normalcy" more quickly than others.

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, fireice13 said:

I'm also starting to get mad at the Democrats. First of all, I don't like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders saying they'll work with Trump on things they can agree on. Why? The Republicans blocked everything for six years and refused to do anything and they got rewarded with all three branches of government. Why do the Democrats have to be the better people, the peacemakers, the ones willing to compromise?

Personally, I'm fine with Bernie and Warren doing things they would have wanted to do anyway. I wouldn't want them to, for instance, refuse a great plan for infrastructure and jobs. It would probably infuriate Republicans anyway since they don't like that idea. To me, that's not a compromise, it's sticking to their values. I'd expect them to block anything that went against their values, but not block things just because Trump said them.

Plus, I think Trump would be happier to get their approval than his Breitbart pals' approval.

3 hours ago, Shannon L. said:

I heard a radio interview today with a Trump campaign member out of Iowa talking about the farmers and one thing he said is something that I'd heard before, in regards to Trump's rhetoric:  That they felt that he didn't mean those things. 

But of course that basically says that they don't think he's really going to deport people or whatever, he just wanted to express genuine contempt for them. I think that's what that person meant when they said, "Anti-Trumpers took him literally but not seriously, his supporters took him seriously but not literally."

3 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Both sides leave little room for moderates or reasonable discourse. 

I would say Obama was both of these things.

2 hours ago, auntl said:

Trump voters are not on this board calling Hillary voters stupid and racist. If they were, I would suggest the same thing to them.

People have explained very clearly why they think the vote for Trump is stupid and why it is racist. They've asked you to explain why you think that vote is not either. I'm genuinely confused why you don't want to explain it instead of just scolding them for being mean to a whole group of people...just because that whole group of people was a lot meaner to a larger group of people. It's a neat little circular dance to keep telling everyone they're not listening without actually saying anything.

[catrox14]

Just now, sistermagpie said:

I'm genuinely confused why you don't want to explain it instead of just scolding them for being mean to a whole group of people...just because that whole group of people was a lot meaner to a larger group of people. It's a neat little circular dance to keep telling everyone they're not listening without actually saying anything

Right out of Trump's playbook.

[SmithW6079]

3 hours ago, auntl said:

I will try one last time. You can stay in your bubble and keep telling yourself that you are superior, or you could try to understand why half of the American people don't agree with you.

It's easy to just say that they are stupid, they are racists, they are not as good as you. It's harder to research and truly learn what motivates half of the American people not to agree with you.

Have you heard the phrase "lie down with dogs, get up with fleas"? You can't support an amoral sociopath like Donald Trump, who espoused and engaged in the most hateful rhetoric throughout this campaign, and then whine because people are tarring you with the same brush. You decided to lie down with the dog; now you have to deal with its fleas.

And frankly, that I did not support that lying conman does make me superior. 

2 hours ago, auntl said:

Trump voters are not on this board calling Hillary voters stupid and racist. If they were, I would suggest the same thing to them.

The country is basically split down the middle. To me that says that there is probably right and wrong on both sides. I don't think that 60 million people on either side can be totally wrong or totally right.

No, they called Hillary and Hillary supporters far, far worse elsewhere.

Edited November 12, 2016 by SmithW6079

[abstractstuff]

I guess I need to try and be more sensitive then. My mind just doesn't work that way. I'm honestly not trying to take away from those that do. But, I can't help but feel a lot of ugh when I read just page after page of people that won't leave their homes and cannot function. That is what was expected! It is so frustrating. I mean.. An anxiety thread was needed.. I just can't with that. I'm sorry, but I do not understand. 

[catrox14]

Just now, abstractstuff said:

I guess I need to try and be more sensitive then. My mind just doesn't work that way. I'm honestly not trying to take away from those that do. But, I can't help but feel a lot of ugh when I read just page after page of people that won't leave their homes and cannot function. That is what was expected! It is so frustrating. I mean.. An anxiety thread was needed.. I just can't with that. I'm sorry, but I do not understand. 

It's grief, sadness, fear. 

I don't know if you are one of the people who are likely to be harmed by the racist, sexist, misogynist, homophobic and xenophobic policies being touted by the President-Elect and his cohorts or not. If not maybe that's why it doesn't affect you in the same way.  If you are, then perhaps you have some coping tips to help those who are having a more difficult time than you.

[abstractstuff]

I am a gay woman. But I refuse to bow down and weep in the corner. I am seeing a lot of weak people. And it is sad. 

[EyewatchTV211]

Anyone in Louisiana? "There is a runoff election in Louisiana next month. If the Dem wins that race the Senate would be at 51-49. Share!"

[backformore]

We teach kids in schools that there are three parties involved in bullying.  The bully, the victim, and the people who see it and don't do anything.  Because they are passively accepting bullying, they are condoning it.

It's the same with racism.  If a racist/misogynist  runs for president, then voting for him condones the racism/misogyny. 

[catrox14]

Just now, abstractstuff said:

I am a gay woman. But I refuse to bow down and weep in the corner. I am seeing a lot of weak people. And it is sad. 

What do you mean you refuse to bow down? Having emotional reactions to a life altering events is not 'bowing down".

[abstractstuff]

But what life altering events have happened as of yet? People are getting on their knees already.. Am I honestly out of my mind? I guess I am. People are ALREADY on their knees crying. Get your ass up and be a human being. Quit playing the victim.. 

[EyewatchTV211]

From someone who knows:

http://www2.nybooks.com/daily/s3/nov/10/trump-election-autocracy-rules-for-survival.html

[windsprints]

People process feelings differently. I really don't get continually posting only to mock them for it but to each their own.

I think people are having open and honest discussions about all the issues while explaining how its making them feel. I do not find that pathetic at all and find it relevant for the topic of this thread.

Edited November 12, 2016 by windsprints

[catrox14]

10 minutes ago, abstractstuff said:

But what life altering events have happened as of yet? People are getting on their knees already.. Am I honestly out of my mind? I guess I am. People are ALREADY on their knees crying. Get your ass up and be a human being. Quit playing the victim.. 

The election itself is a life altering event when you look at all of the policies and ideologies put forth by Trump, Pence et al.  I'm sorry but at this point I'm not particularly convinced you seek understanding as much you seek to shame those you see as not strong.  You've still not offered in constructive coping tips.

Edited November 12, 2016 by catrox14

[abstractstuff]

Why would I offer somoene coping tips? Sorry, but,, if you have no coping tips and cannot leave your house at THIS point.. Then you are screwed. 

[catrox14]

Just now, abstractstuff said:

Why would I offer somoene coping tips? Sorry, but,, if you have no coping tips and cannot leave your house at THIS point.. Then you are screwed. 

This is a thread for people to discuss their anxieties.  Since you've self-identified as someone who falls into one of the demographics that would likely be harmed as a result of Trump being elected, I was thinking maybe there are things you do that help you which  might help someone else.

[EyewatchTV211]

Well here is why people are grieving: http://johnpavlovitz.com/2016/11/09/heres-why-we-grieve-today/

And the way people are responding here fits with what experts have identified as the natural stages of grief. For most, this grief will not last long term and is perfectly normal. To criticize people for experiencing normal human reactions is unfair. I am confident that many of these people will come out of this fighting harder than before. If you are not grieving at all, that's great for you, but it doesn't make you better or worse than anyone else. 

[abstractstuff]

I'm saddened by the fact that people cannot seem to be able to help themselves. I am saddened by the complete weakness I am seeing. 

[backformore]

7 hours ago, AltLivia said:

My friends are posting on social media, touting : "We all need to get behind him, we're all in this together." But how are we all in this together if Trump only prioritizes himself and the Republican agenda? My only relief is that his ego is intensely, laughably and pathetically fragile. His denial of protest has all the pouting spirit of aplayground brat. 

Yes -  Trump has demonstrated that he has a narcissistic personality.  He is all bluster, announcing himself as the smartest, the best, etc.   Beneath the pathology of narcissism is the opposite - a profound fear of being inadequate.  It's like someone with very low self-esteem, building up a false self, a fake personality, to hide the fear of being inadequate.  

Look at how fragile his self esteem really is.  When Rosie O'Donnell mocked his hair, he pretty much launched a war on her.  Penn Jillette, Alec Baldwin, Jon Stewart,  so many others, who tell a joke about him, or don't endorse him, he insults and baits them on social media.  Because at 3AM, the exterior cracks a little, and the fear sets in. 

I don't think he has the strength of character to do the job of being president.  He can't stick to a topic, he can't explain his policies, he can't control his impulses to attack.  When someone disagrees with him, he jumps to being defensive and launching a  counter-attack, and plots revenge.  

He wanted to win, to be the winner.   I don't think he actually wants the JOB - the day to day grind of having your every word and action held up to criticism, having to hold your feelings in check 24/7, having people disagree with you all the time, and being able to respond with assertiveness that never borders on aggressiveness. The amount of stuff he has to learn about the world is mind-boggling.  And I doubt he feels like doing it.  He wants to give speeches to people who think he's great - he lives for that admiration. 

Now that he's not going to "Build a wall!"  and "repeal the disaster that is Obamacare" - I wonder if his supporters feel betrayed.  A week ago, he was adamant about his plans.  Now he's back-tracking.  are they OK with it?

[EyewatchTV211]

10 minutes ago, abstractstuff said:

I'm saddened by the fact that people cannot seem to be able to help themselves. I am saddened by the complete weakness I am seeing. 

So new question then. Since you apparently do not support Trump and yet are not experiencing any of this "weakness," what are YOU doing to take positive action instead? Maybe you will give some people here ideas in that area.  

ETA: I'm going to offer one suggestion that someone who worked for Congress recommended. She said, "But, the most effective thing is to actually call them on the phone. At their district (state) office. They have to talk to you there." Better than tweeting/facebook, which they don't read. Better than emails. Letters are okay, but not as good as phone calls.

Edited November 12, 2016 by VMepicgrl

[EyewatchTV211]

Well I challenge you to do more than just live your life the way you have been living it. You admit that it's scary as hell. Going about everyday life like nothing has changed isn't doing more to help than people who are staying home and doing nothing for now. I myself have been going to work and living my normal life. I've been doing it through periods of extreme emotion like others here. But that isn't enough for me. I plan on taking steps, no matter how small, to try to make a difference. Don't criticize those here when you aren't doing anything to help either.

[BookWoman56]

3 hours ago, Calvada said:

Gregg Popovich in 2020!  I'm not an NBA fan, very rarely watch a professional basketball game, but by golly, I think I'm in love.  This is what he said about the election:

"What gets lost in the process are African-Americans, Hispanics, women and the gay population, not to mention the eighth-grade developmental stage exhibited by him when he made fun of the handicapped person," he said. "I mean, come on. That's what an eighth-grade bully does, and he was elected president of the United States. We would have scolded our kids. We would have had discussions and talked until we were blue in the face trying to get them to understand these things. And he is in charge of our country. That's disgusting."

When a reporter interrupted to start a new line of questioning, Popovich cut him off.

"I'm not done," he said. "One could go on and on. We didn't make this stuff up. He's angry at the media because he reported what they said, and how he acted. It's ironic to me. It just makes no sense. So that's my real fear. And that's what gives me so much pause and makes me feel so badly, that the country is willing to be that intolerant and not understand the empathy that's necessary to understand other groups' situations.

"I'm a rich white guy. And I'm sick to my stomach thinking about it. I couldn't imagine being a Muslim right now or a woman or an African-American, a Hispanic, a handicapped person, and how disenfranchised they might feel. And for anyone in those groups that voted for him, it's just beyond my comprehension how they ignored all that."

I'm not much of a basketball fan, but I do live in San Antonio and "Pop" is a legend here for his character in general and especially his approach to building a successful team. He has zero tolerance for famewhores and "star" players who are only interested in running up their own stats instead of working with the team as a whole to win the game. If a player isn't willing to be a part of the team and understand why solid teamwork ultimately makes for a stronger game, then he will let the player go. That's how he was able to create winning teams with players who had some phenomenal stats (like Tim Duncan, who recently retired) but who were not media darlings because they didn't insist on being front and center every damn game. Bottom line, in addition to Pop being a genuinely good guy who strongly believes in the value of diversity, Donald Trump is the antithesis of what Pop values in his team and people in general. For Trump, it's always all about him. It's never about what is good for the larger community.

I gave myself a couple of days but finally forced myself to go onto FaceBook and promptly unfriended anyone who was engaging in the "at last our savior Trump will give us back the Christian nation we deserve and deliver us from the evils of the liberals" gloating. Some of those were extended family and some were already in the category of people I used to know in high school but have since become assholes, so I'm not regarding it as any big loss. I was heartened to see some friends who were proudly stating their support of the LGBTQ community. I was disheartened to see a good friend, who lives in a place known for its liberal views, comment that two of his LGBTQ friends have been assaulted in the last couple of days. Coincidence? I think not. For all the hardcore bigots out there, this election represents validation of their hate and prejudice.

I still cannot wrap my head around the mindset that thinks it's okay to vote for an openly racist, sexist, homophobic president and vice president because you agree with them on an issue like abortion or taxation. Voting for someone isn't like choosing from a cafeteria menu; you don't get to say that you vote for only those positions that you agreed on but totally reject other parts. You either get the entire plate or order a different meal. You can't elect three parts of Trump on certain issues and two parts of Hillary on other issues. It's a package deal.  And finally, when you vote for someone who so obviously has no clue about how government works and what the POTUS actually does, you're going to end up with those deer-in-the-headlights photos of Trump finally recognizing that, hey, there's actual work to this instead of just going to rallies and getting cheered.  

[Snarklepuss]

29 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I don't understand your point.  You seem to be mocking people who are quite literally frightened and feel their lives are endangered and that their upset is going to be a permanent condition. 

What advice do you have to help those that are struggling? I mean real advice beyond "quit whining".  Something constructive.

I didn't vote for either candidate but I've known who Donald Trump is for over 30 years as a native New Yorker.  He walked right past me once about 8 years ago at Jean Georges restaurant in one of his Trump buildings in Manhattan.  I didn't vote for him because I had a lot of reservations given his vulgar unpresidential behavior, etc.  But if not for that I may have been OK with voting for him because I was never a Hillary fan although I'm a registered Democrat and have voted that way most of my life.  Perhaps it's because I've known of Trump for so long that I'm not that afraid of him.  Even when it seemed like he was going to make some hideous changes to Manhattan, somehow there was compromise and things worked out OK.  And I am very sensitive to stuff like that so I feel that if he really was that bad I would have totally hated him by now and I don't.

The advice I have for those who are struggling is to keep in mind that the Donald's bark is much worse than his bite and yes he did say what he had to say to get a certain constituent to vote for him.  But there is a flip side to that that can provide perhaps a teeny bit of solace - It was all for show and he quite probably didn't mean a lot of it.  Not that this is a good way to be but at least it means he probably wasn't serious.  Let's look at the facts - He was a Democrat for a long time and in his 2000 book wrote that he was in favor of gay rights and gay marriage.  Most New Yorker Republicans are more middle of the road and centrist than those from other areas of the country.  He's not the most right leaning Republican by a long shot, plus he doesn't have one shred of idealism.  That may seem scary but it also means he likely doesn't give a rat's ass about who sleeps with who, what color people are, what sex they are, what sex they marry, etc.  Whatever his biases deep down are, those things aren't even important to him as far as what he sees his role as as president because he is not motivated by idealism.  So I wouldn't worry about him pushing for policies that work against stuff like gay rights, women's rights and the rights of legal aliens of any background.  The worst that can happen is that the supreme court justice he appoints is very traditional and right wing, but even then in my entire lifetime no matter how many times people were panicking about Roe v. Wade being repealed it somehow never was for over 40 years now.  So I wouldn't panic about stuff like that.

Plus, I think the media and social media have morphed people's perceptions of Trump into a monster and evil beyond any reality.  Some of that is Trump's own fault for playing into what his audience wanted to hear.  But again, I don't think he himself believes very much of it.  It was all a ploy to get elected.  While that may be reprehensible in and of itself, many politicians lie and misrepresent themselves so it's not exactly anything new or exclusive to Donald Trump.  So that is why I am not panicking.  Trump is a winner and will say whatever he has to to win.  Now that he's won I don't think we are going to see anything anywhere near as extreme out of his mouth.  Do I have any doubt at all about that?  Well, yeah, I'd be lying if I didn't say I was nervous about it.  But the point is that I'm not panicking or grieving about it.  Am I sad that an idealist didn't get elected who stands for all this lofty stuff I believe in and think the president of our country should embody?  Yeah, I am, but on the other hand I realize that even if that's not the case we're not trading that for someone who will bring down everything moral and fair and wonderful about the United States.  Not if what I think I know about Donald after over 30 years has any truth to it.  Not that I expect anyone to believe or trust my hunches about that but it's the best I've got and I'm sticking with it.  If you prefer to continue panicking, what can I say?

I remember being shocked that Ronald Reagan won the election in 1980.  I was a senior in college during most of his campaign and most students had him painted as some ignorant buffoon of a failed actor.  We loved Jimmy Carter because he was an idealist like we were and echoed our beliefs.  But in the fullness of time I have come to realize that Carter, while a lovely person, did not have the right personality to be an effective president.  While I did not agree with a lot that Ronald Reagan stood for I did realize that he was a better leader.  He did both good and bad things for the country like any president.  I'm thinking that I will realize that Trump has strengths that will help to balance out his weaknesses.  No president can give us everything we need or want.  Some things will change but it's never quite as bad as we might think it will be.   Somehow we come through even the worst presidencies.  The president doesn't operate in a vacuum.  Trump is not a fascist leader nor do I believe he even wants to be anything like one.  Please have faith in the structure of our government to provide some balance to his presidency.  Even if he wants to get out of control, he will have a lot of people reigning him back in.  That's pretty much all I can offer.  I don't think it's perfect, but it's what I got and why I'm not panicking, at least not yet.

[EyewatchTV211]

4 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

I didn't vote for either candidate but I've known who Donald Trump is for over 30 years as a native New Yorker.  He walked right past me once about 8 years ago at Jean Georges restaurant in one of his Trump buildings in Manhattan.  I didn't vote for him because I had a lot of reservations given his vulgar unpresidential behavior, etc.  But if not for that I may have been OK with voting for him because I was never a Hillary fan although I'm a registered Democrat and have voted that way most of my life.  Perhaps it's because I've known of Trump for so long that I'm not that afraid of him.  Even when it seemed like he was going to make some hideous changes to Manhattan, somehow there was compromise and things worked out OK.  And I am very sensitive to stuff like that so I feel that if he really was that bad I would have totally hated him by now and I don't.

The advice I have for those who are struggling is to keep in mind that the Donald's bark is much worse than his bite and yes he did say what he had to say to get a certain constituent to vote for him.  But there is a flip side to that that can provide perhaps a teeny bit of solace - It was all for show and he quite probably didn't mean a lot of it.  Not that this is a good way to be but at least it means he probably wasn't serious.  Let's look at the facts - He was a Democrat for a long time and in his 2000 book wrote that he was in favor of gay rights and gay marriage.  Most New Yorker Republicans are more middle of the road and centrist than those from other areas of the country.  He's not the most right leaning Republican by a long shot, plus he doesn't have one shred of idealism.  That may seem scary but it also means he likely doesn't give a rat's ass about who sleeps with who, what color people are, what sex they are, what sex they marry, etc.  Whatever his biases deep down are, those things aren't even important to him as far as what he sees his role as as president because he is not motivated by idealism.  So I wouldn't worry about him pushing for policies that work against stuff like gay rights, women's rights and the rights of legal aliens of any background.  The worst that can happen is that the supreme court justice he appoints is very traditional and right wing, but even then in my entire lifetime no matter how many times people were panicking about Roe v. Wade being repealed it somehow never was for over 40 years now.  So I wouldn't panic about stuff like that.

Plus, I think the media and social media have morphed people's perceptions of Trump into a monster and evil beyond any reality.  Some of that is Trump's own fault for playing into what his audience wanted to hear.  But again, I don't think he himself believes very much of it.  It was all a ploy to get elected.  While that may be reprehensible in and of itself, many politicians lie and misrepresent themselves so it's not exactly anything new or exclusive to Donald Trump.  So that is why I am not panicking.  Trump is a winner and will say whatever he has to to win.  Now that he's won I don't think we are going to see anything anywhere near as extreme out of his mouth.  Do I have any doubt at all about that?  Well, yeah, I'd be lying if I didn't say I was nervous about it.  But the point is that I'm not panicking or grieving about it.  Am I sad that an idealist didn't get elected who stands for all this lofty stuff I believe in and think the president of our country should embody?  Yeah, I am, but on the other hand I realize that even if that's not the case we're not trading that for someone who will bring down everything moral and fair and wonderful about the United States.  Not if what I think I know about Donald after over 30 years has any truth to it.  Not that I expect anyone to believe or trust my hunches about that but it's the best I've got and I'm sticking with it.  If you prefer to continue panicking, what can I say?

I remember being shocked that Ronald Reagan won the election in 1980.  I was a senior in college during most of his campaign and most students had him painted as some ignorant buffoon of a failed actor.  We loved Jimmy Carter because he was an idealist like we were and echoed our beliefs.  But in the fullness of time I have come to realize that Carter, while a lovely person, did not have the right personality to be an effective president.  While I did not agree with a lot that Ronald Reagan stood for I did realize that he was a better leader.  He did both good and bad things for the country like any president.  I'm thinking that I will realize that Trump has strengths that will help to balance out his weaknesses.  No president can give us everything we need or want.  Some things will change but it's never quite as bad as we might think it will be.   Somehow we come through even the worst presidencies.  The president doesn't operate in a vacuum.  Trump is not a fascist leader nor do I believe he even wants to be anything like one.  Please have faith in the structure of our government to provide some balance to his presidency.  Even if he wants to get out of control, he will have a lot of people reigning him back in.  That's pretty much all I can offer.  I don't think it's perfect, but it's what I got and why I'm not panicking, at least not yet.

I need to go to bed, so I'm not going to respond in length to all of your points. I will say that even IF Trump really doesn't believe these things he is saying right now, IF he appoints to cabinet positions the people he says he is going to, THOSE people do believe in these positions and have taken action. I think many people fear them and Pence even more than Trump. I probably do, although I fear the unknown with Trump since he makes things up as he goes along. And I fear Trump's thin skin and trigger finger with the nuclear codes. 

[Pollock]

17 minutes ago, abstractstuff said:

But what life altering events have happened as of yet? People are getting on their knees already.. Am I honestly out of my mind? I guess I am. People are ALREADY on their knees crying. Get your ass up and be a human being. Quit playing the victim.. 

Hi!

Those emotions aren't mutually exclusive you know! I mean by that: I know I'm devasted, I still cry a lot but I still don't see myself as a victim. I'll give you that: I'm not american (frak, I think I stated that more in those past few days than the last 20 years of my life because I feel I need to justify myself to post in this forum!) so I'm not directly threatened by a Trump presidency but you know, given that your country was the leader of the Free World yadiyada, your actions affect all of our democracies! With great powers come great responsabilities and shit like that. So when you elect Obama, we rejoice and cry of joy for the progress it was but when you elect Trump, we're kind of wondering what the fuck happened. That's why I'm on this board.

Because of those emotions I already took concrete actions (gave money to my local planned parenthood (and to a L.A. one by buying Samantha Bee Nasty Woman t-shirt), whose also under attack and my husband and have already redone our budget to include those donations monthly) and I plan to do more next week when associations are open. Not just talking about it this time: really do it for my country.

I've read some people here already took action too. Little ones but meaningful ones, like a woman who pledged her time to help muslims and gay teens of her neighbourhood, giving her phone number to do so. Some already gave money to planned parenthood. A lot more ideas have been thrown around. You just need to give some people time to regroup, dust themselves up to put their money and time where their mouths are.

A lot of beliefs died three days ago. People are grieving those. You just lost half your country to a racist mysogenistic mad man. And your new VP is even worse.
Reading stories here of people being greeted by insults when they got to work because it was known they were voting for Hillary doesn't even begin to register with me because of the mental violence it can be. Reports of bullying, harassments, nazis tags... So no, I don't blame those people to avoid contact with the outside for a day or two. Or three. I will ignore my fellow french when they elect our Trump next year ( (I'm a halfwhite/halfarab woman in a racist and sexist country so I've got some unsavory stories to share on moral harassment and violence too...) because fuck me, if I want to help them when she'll let them down, I have to forget about them a day or two in order to remember why the fuck I still should care about what happens to them.

You're not grieving, you want people to fight and to that I say : good for you and it's awesome. But I don't think sorrow is weakness. It's not even a step backward. It's a time out to take the real measure of the discontent, reflect where we fucked up as a society and think of the actions to take down the road! That's more the spirit of the people I read here anyway I think!

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

  Not that I expect anyone to believe or trust my hunches about that but it's the best I've got and I'm sticking with it.  If you prefer to continue panicking, what can I say?

Trump himself might not be scary but he picked Mike Pence who believes in conversion therapy and wants women to have funerals for aborted or miscarried fetuses.  He has the likes of Guiliani,Gingrich and Steve Bannon on his short list for cabinet positions. He has ties to the Alt-Right and Russia.   How do you view Trump in conjunction with his potential administration who will have influence and power?

[Snarklepuss]

4 minutes ago, VMepicgrl said:

I need to go to bed, so I'm not going to respond in length to all of your points. I will say that even IF Trump really doesn't believe these things he is saying right now, IF he appoints to cabinet positions the people he says he is going to, THOSE people do believe in these positions and have taken action. I think many people fear them and Pence even more than Trump. I probably do, although I fear the unknown with Trump since he makes things up as he goes along. And I fear Trump's thin skin and trigger finger with the nuclear codes. 

What I don't understand is why people didn't fear the cabinets under Bush or Reagan.  Why all of a sudden the panic?  We've had right wingers and Republicans around forever and some of them were even more right wing than these are now.  I remember worrying about certain Supreme Court appointments and cabinet members in the past but nothing near the outright panic we are seeing now.  I'm just not getting why this is such a big fear now.  Pence is the VP and since when is there any reason to worry about them unless the President dies?  I hear you about Trump's thin skin (due to the narcissism) but at least for now he is on his best behavior.  I think he knows he will have a lot of opposition if he doesn't attempt to represent ALL people to some extent, hence his rather sober expressions which translate to me as "Oh shit, this is REAL now", so I am hoping that some of that will help him to grow up a little.  I am being optimistic of course!

[Snarklepuss]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Trump himself might not be scary but he picked Mike Pence who believes in conversion therapy and wants women to have funerals for aborted or miscarried fetuses.  He has the likes of Guiliani,Gingrich and Steve Bannon on his short list for cabinet positions. He has ties to the Alt-Right and Russia.   How do you view Trump in conjunction with his potential administration who will have influence and power?

Giuliani is another New York centrist Republican.  Nothing to fear.  And VPs have notoriously been little more than figureheads, it's legendary.  So I don't worry about Pence no matter what his views are.  Newt has been around forever, if he was going to bring about the destruction of society he would have done it by now.  Steve Bannon I don't know.  Not that I'm not concerned, just not panicked!

[catrox14]

Just now, Snarklepuss said:

Giuliani is another New York centrist Republican.  Nothing to fear.  And VPs have notoriously been little more than figureheads, it's legendary.  So I don't worry about Pence no matter what his views are.  Newt has been around forever, if he was going to bring about the destruction of society he would have done it by now.  Steve Bannon I don't know.  Not that I'm not concerned, just not panicked!

Why wouldn't you worry about Pence? If Trump dies or is deemed unfit for office because of his pending Fraud trial or any other number of reasons, or he resigns,Pence becomes President. Also,  Pence has the tie breaking  vote in the Senate. Steve Bannon's name is being bandied about as Trump's Chief of Staff.  If you aren't familiar with him, you should learn about him.  Gingrich couldn't bring about the destruction of society because Bill Clinton was in the White House to veto what he could.  

I'm less inclined to see them as ineffectual or less extreme especially since they  have the House, Senate and the Presidency.  But that's just me.

[backformore]

40 minutes ago, VMepicgrl said:

I need to go to bed, so I'm not going to respond in length to all of your points. I will say that even IF Trump really doesn't believe these things he is saying right now, IF he appoints to cabinet positions the people he says he is going to, THOSE people do believe in these positions and have taken action. I think many people fear them and Pence even more than Trump. I probably do, although I fear the unknown with Trump since he makes things up as he goes along. And I fear Trump's thin skin and trigger finger with the nuclear codes. 

Yes.  Trump is facing backlash from the left, who fear what he has said he's going to do.  But there will be more, from his own people, who are worried that he WON'T.

I wonder how his supporters are going to respond when they find out that when he led them in chants of "Build a wall"  and "Lock her up", he didn't really MEAN it. 

Edited November 12, 2016 by backformore

[crayon78]

9 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

What I don't understand is why people didn't fear the cabinets under Bush or Reagan.  Why all of a sudden the panic?  We've had right wingers and Republicans around forever and some of them were even more right wing than these are now.  I remember worrying about certain Supreme Court appointments and cabinet members in the past but nothing near the outright panic we are seeing now.  I'm just not getting why this is such a big fear now.

Because, if I remember correctly, none of Reagan, Bush, or W came in also holding both houses of Congress. That's a lot of unchecked power. That's part of what scares me - that we aren't going to be able to have really effective balances of power because there is essentially very little opposition. Are any moderate Republicans going to stand up against something extreme and risk alienating their voters? I don't know. It's hard to have faith in that.

Also a native New Yorker here. Never particularly liked Trump, but never really cared that much either for most of the time. I even watched a few early seasons of The Apprentice. But he lost me completely with his treatment of Obama and birtherism. That was a dealbreaker for me. I agree that I don't think Trump really personally cares very much about a lot of positions, but in a way, that makes it more scary. If he doesn't care, then it's entirely possible he'll just let the people he owes for getting him into office do whatever they want, because it doesn't affect him and he doesn't care. That's part of where the cabinet comes into it for me.

I worry about Pence because it's entirely possible that Trump will decide at some point that he doesn't actually want to do the job, and we'll be left with someone with some very clear ideas about what he does want to do with the country (at a point where the Republicans may still hold both houses of Congress). Or he could get impeached at some point, as the professor who predicted Trump's win with his "keys" thinks might happen. Then we're left with Pence. Pence's desire for a Christian theocracy scares me.

I didn't like Rudy when he was my mayor, and nothing has changed. In my opinion, the man has a really high opinion of himself and thinks he's solely responsible for every good thing that has ever happened in NYC. Most of my friends - who did like him when he was mayor - watched him during this campaign and thought they were watching a raving madman and wondered what happened in the intervening years. The idea of him as a potential attorney general, I can't even think about it.

I get that some people aren't panicking because we don't know what will happen, but that's probably the reason why other people are. I agree that we don't know what next year will actually bring. Maybe it won't be so bad. But it might be. I have no idea where I read this and wish I could give appropriate credit, but I've read so many things since Tuesday that it has all sort of blurred together. Maybe it was even here. But the analogy was about preparing for a potential hurricane. You know it could be really, really awful, so you make preparations and contingency plans and prepare for the worst. You prepare for the threat that it presents when it's on the horizon, that it's going to do the damage that it's predicted to do. Maybe the hurricane changes course or lessens in severity, and maybe nothing happens at all. But you still prepare, you stay vigilant, and you're ready for whatever bad possibility may come, just in case it's a disaster. You just hope it's not.

[Quilt Fairy]

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 2:51 PM, Janet Snakehole said:

I don't have a car to get to protests, so I am donating to the ACLU, Planned Parenthood, and Sierra Club. It may not be much, but it feels like it is something positive.

Giving to groups that fight the good fight is the only thing that has kept me calm the last 3 days (well, that and the valium). Thanks for the reminder about the ACLU.  I've never given to them before but now seems like a good time to start.  In addition to the Sierra Club and Planned Parenthood, I also gave to the National Wildlife Federation, the National Parks Conservation Association and the Nature Conservancy. Several of these organizations (don't remember which ones) are saying that a private donor is matching all donations for the next week one-for-one.  I may also kick in a little extra to NARAL (the National Abortions Rights Alliance).  (In a bit of irony that makes me want to cry - again - I bet many of these organizations are currently having the best fund-raising they've ever seen.)

[film noire]

14 hours ago, auntl said:

This campaign was very ugly. People said a lot of mean and hurtful things on both sides. I understand that the people who's candidate lost are very disappointed and need a chance to commiserate.

At some point this board will stop being perceived as disappointed people expressing their disappointment and anxiety. It will start being perceived as a board for hateful sore losers throwing a temper tantrum.

I don't think ugly even begins to cover it. Trump's campaign was a degrading exercise in hate-stoking and race-baiting, a display of predatory behavior from a repugnant man who -- with great glee -- described his own daughter as a sexual object.  Once upon a time in America, proudly agreeing your own baby girl was a hot piece of ass would've been enough to end a man's candidacy; what a quaint world we lived in, only eighteen months ago. His campaign was a ruthless savaging of American values as most people know them to be  -- people who abhor racism and sexism, people who despise judges being judged for their ethnicity, people who despise war heroes being mocked because of their religion, people who despise women being molested, people who despise grown men screaming and terrifying an innocent child in a wheelchair. And disappointment is something you feel when your sports team loses or Acme is out of Twizzlers or your kid tells you a lie --  this is righteous rage. People here are reflecting some of what's happening out on  the streets -- millions of decent people rising up in disgust, rejecting the idea that all this Trumpian sickness let loose on the country can be normalized or brushed aside,  millions of people expressing their own agency in the face of a racist sexist monster,  the widespread, profoundly felt denial of millions upon millions who do not consent to a single corrupt Trumpian act. 

Edited November 12, 2016 by film noire

[film noire]

1 hour ago, Snarklepuss said:

 

The advice I have for those who are struggling is to keep in mind that the Donald's bark is much worse than his bite 

Day One, he appointed a climate skeptic as head of his EPA transition team.  He's biting, hard and deep.

[katha]

25 minutes ago, film noire said:

Day One, he appointed a climate skeptic as head of his EPA transition team.  He's biting, hard and deep.

This is unfortunately not something Trump-specific, a run-of-the-mill Republican president would stock his cabinet with the same people. Bush had all these extremist, scary people running the show as well, that's easy to forget. He was an outwardly "friendlier, folksier" candidate, but the people doing the dirty work and running the show for him were trading in the same sort of ugliness that Trump is displaying openly.

[Tara]

http://nypost.com/2016/11/09/the-one-scenario-that-could-still-get-hillary-into-the-white-house/

[aradia22]

Quote

http://nypost.com/2016/11/09/the-one-scenario-that-could-still-get-hillary-into-the-white-house/

The likelihood of this happening is very low and it would just lead to more partisan uproar and fighting and who knows how it would get resolved. And yet, given the reality show, ratings high/substance low election we've had so far, part of me thinks... eh, why the heck not? Let's just go full Idiocracy. Everyone just make attention-grabbing grand gestures. Dramatic twist! More chaos, more! But, of course, that's me talking as though this is a TV show and not real life where things have consequences and aren't just in the control of the writers. 

[Cupid Stunt]

Mike Pence Named to Trump's White House Transition Team -- Rogues, racists, misogynists and revanchists queue to the right -- Religious Litmus tests begin in 15 minutes

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-updates-trail-guide-mike-pence-replaces-chris-christie-as-1478892393-htmlstory.html

 

"Mike Pence is no less of a threat to women than Donald Trump" -- Because all women need to submit their reproductive health, their every thought, their very existence to the demands and proclivities of old white men.

http://www.vox.com/identities/2016/10/6/13174852/mike-pence-trump-vp-debate-abortion-women-dangerous

 

"Step 1 of Donald Trump’s anti-lobbyist crusade: pack his transition team with lobbyists" -- Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/11/13587120/lobbying-trump-corruption

 

"Rudy Giuliani just favorably compared Trump to Andrew Jackson, a racist ethnic cleanser" -- Because this is exactly what a "New York centrist Republican" would promote

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/9/13571820/rudy-giuliani-trump-andrew-jackson-racist

 

 

Have a great weekend!

[zxy556575]

This is a minor, albeit symbolic, change. But I'm putting it out there now: Harriet Tubman will NOT be on the face of the $20 bill and images of women will NOT be added to the backs of the $5 and $10. Final designs are set to be unveiled in 2020 but there's plenty of time to put the kibosh on.

[bmasters9]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

And as much as I do hate Trump and his racist/sexist rhetoric, I fear that possibility even more, because at least Trump's crazy isn't mixed with religious radicalism as Mike Pence's views are. And, to be ironic, Lord help us then.

What I worry about with Pence (this may or may not happen though) is a nation where:

A. The Old Testament still applies (or in a manner of speaking, Trumps the New Testament)

B. Those who get out of line are to be stoned

C. School prayer will be mandated, under penalty of suspension or expulsion (IOW, it will not be good enough to silently respect the prayer; you will have to pray with the class)

[Spartan Girl]

I still want to use this thread for us to cope with our stress and cheer people up. And here comes the Monty Python guys to the rescue:

[ClareWalks]

9 hours ago, VMepicgrl said:

Another company to support is Starbucks. In addition to having shown support for Hillary for awhile, they have spoken in support of our diverse society. And I also just went on twitter for the first time and saw this retweeted: "Sitting here in Starbucks, which is training its local employees on aiding LGBT people targeted by hate crimes & how to provide safe space."

Yes! Starbucks is my coffee shop of choice, but especially now. And I believe through the 14th, they have BOGO holiday drinks from 2-5 PM. I am going there with an equally-horrified girlfriend today to wallow.

[callmebetty]

6 hours ago, abstractstuff said:

I'm saddened by the fact that people cannot seem to be able to help themselves. I am saddened by the complete weakness I am seeing. 

Has there ever been a time in your life when you were absolutely gutted, something terrible happened and it felt like the floor fell out from under you and you couldn't function? If yes, then tap into that and that is empathy and that is what some people are feeling but eventually it subsides and you get moving again. 

If not, then you are one lucky person and I hope that you never have to feel that way, cause when that happens to you that experience is devastating but eventually you do get back in your feet.

People will bounce back and it sounds like they will be ready for action to make sure other people don't have to be scared or weep or feel unloved or unwanted.