S01.E05: Contrapasso

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

A perilous mission awaits Dolores, William and Logan once they arrive in the amoral town of Pariah. Meanwhile, the Man in Black finds an improbable partner in his crusade.

[ennui]

Contrapasso is one of the rules in Dante’s “Inferno” which states that for every sinner’s crime there must be an equal and fitting punishment. 

[phoenyx]

6 hours ago, ennui said:

Contrapasso is one of the rules in Dante’s “Inferno” which states that for every sinner’s crime there must be an equal and fitting punishment. 

That, in turn, sounds a lot like Newton's Third Law: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." It also sounds like Karma ;-)

[ennui]

11 hours ago, phoenyx said:

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

That sounds fairly benevolent. Dante had something more punitive in mind.  :)

[Ms.McGregor]

18 hours ago, ennui said:

Contrapasso is one of the rules in Dante’s “Inferno” which states that for every sinner’s crime there must be an equal and fitting punishment. 

Oh, poor Logan is screwed, isn't he?  

[phoenyx]

On 10/28/2016 at 3:04 PM, ennui said:

That sounds fairly benevolent. Dante had something more punitive in mind.  :)

Not necessarily- Dante's punishment is supposed to just be "equal". To put this in the context of how equal can be deadly, given certain circumstances, I'd like to quote a bit from an article on a Star Trek episode:

**

The Enterprise then shakes and Timothy says that this is how it started on the Vico as well. The wave front intensity increases and Commander Riker orders that Worf raise the shields to 75%. The ship is then shaken again harder than before. Picard comes out of his ready room and orders Ensign Felton to bring the Enterprisefull about and engage at warp 2, but the ship's engines have been disabled by the cluster. They continue to increase shield strength. Timothy remembers hearing the same demand for increased shield strength aboard the Vico before it was destroyed. Developing a theory, Data leads Timothy to the science station at the aft section of the bridge and begins running a rapid analysis.

Despite the increased shield strength, the Enterprise is hit even harder, and Picard orders warp power transferred to the shields, something which Timothy also remembers hearing. The transfer is made, and an enormously powerful wave front is fifteen seconds from impact when Data tells the captain to drop the shields. Riker objects that that is suicide, but Data, deathly serious, repeats the order. Picard complies, and the wave front barely rocks the ship. Data then explains that their own shields caused the increases in the wave front. If they had maintained the shield strength with warp power, they would have been torn apart. 

**

Source: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Hero_Worship_(episode)

On 10/28/2016 at 3:55 PM, Ms.McGregor said:

Oh, poor Logan is screwed, isn't he?  

Laugh :-). I definitely think it's high time that Logan be made aware that he's playing with fire, wouldn't mind that.

[Primetimer]

Maybe when the bits and bobs distract from the story?

View the full article

[CofCinci]

I believe this was the first episode where we were to start suspecting two timelines but the production team didn't count on the thousands of people tweeting/commenting/Redditing during the episode.

The Ford in the bar with MiB is a Host-version of a now long dead Ford.

Edited October 31, 2016 by CofCinci

[AimingforYoko]

Damn, that meeting between Ford and MiB was as good as I hoped. So, he strongly implied that he killed Arthur, right? To prevent the robot revolution?

And Delores is off the leash!

[benteen]

The Ford and MiB meeting was really good and interesting that he built a failsafe in his robots to prevent harm from coming to him.

Really enjoyed the episode tonight.

[SeanC]

The nature of what people are all looking for (some leftover legacy of the late founder buried within the game) is clearer now, which helps me appreciate the series a lot more.

Typical James Marsden luck, riding to save his lady, but she's shacking up with somebody else (I guess this is going to be the vehicle for exploring human/robot love; Logan can go back to his sister and explain how her fiancee ran off with one of the amusement park attractions).

[VCRTracking]

Westworld turned into "Eyes Wide Shut-world".

So it's definitely two different timelines with MIB with Lawrence in one and Dolores, William and Lawrence/Alonzo in another.

[SeanC]

Just now, VCRTracking said:

So it's definitely two different timelines with MIB with Lawrence in one and Dolores, William and Lawrence/Alonzo in another.

MIB abandoned Lawrence, so he got picked up and repurposed, I thought.

[parandroid]

17 minutes ago, PreviouslyTV said:

 

Maybe when the bits and bobs distract from the story?

 

Perhaps the nudity was gratuitous, but it didn't annoy me. I thought the rest of the episode moved things along so well that I think it more than made up for any of the cheaper thrills. There were so many things that piqued my interest, and I noticed that your recap didn't get to many of them. Like how the boy appears to be a general helper who shows up to help guests (...when...?). Or like how Logan probably would have been killed (maybe) by strangulation and was saved by William. Or how Dolores saw herself in that procession (why?) and then later on as the astrologer. And there definitely appear to be multiple versions of Lawrence in the park - otherwise how could he have served as a blood donor approximately the same time as he was interacting with William and Logan?

Lots of meat on the bones.....

[Black Knight]

3 minutes ago, SeanC said:

MIB abandoned Lawrence, so he got picked up and repurposed, I thought.

Yes, it's not "definitely" two different timelines. I had the same take as you, and I just read the EW recap and James Hibberd also had the same take.  He had a whole paragraph about how the show's not holding our hands anymore, it just assumes we're keeping up with the whole recovery/repairing/respawning thing that the park does with its hosts.

Now it could be that we're all wrong and it is two different timelines - but if so, it's far from certain just yet.

I cannot wait to hear what Maeve has to say. That was a terrific cliffhanger.

And god help me, but I like the William/Dolores pairing. They have good chemistry, and their relationship's already much deeper than we've seen with Dolores and Teddy. Teddy just doesn't seem that advanced as the robots go.

[AimingforYoko]

Just now, Black Knight said:

Teddy just doesn't seem that advanced as the robots go.

Yeah, I don't think he's been "altered" like Delores.

[Quilt Fairy]

It looked like William, Logan and Delores got sidetracked into Orgy-world for a while there. Naked women coated in gold leaf? Not real authentic Western.

[Bill1978]

If I had no started watching from the start I too would have thought I had stumbled into Eyes Wide Shut : The Series. One of my friends and I like to joke around with the shows we watch that have nudity by describing the show as a type of porn. Tonight's episode justified the name I gave the show Wild West Porn.

Loved all the little story developments we got tonight. I feel this week's episode was a lot more engaging plot wise that last week. Maybe cause it shifted through a number of different plots rather than being heavily focused on one character's plot.

I know they say the have mapped out 5 seasons, but I just don't know how 5o episodes of this plot is going to play out unless they drag things out. And that didn't do too well for Lost. It is still my favourite thinking show though.

[formerlyfreedom]

Maeve in that last shot...incredible. I got the chills when she told Felix they needed to talk.

[Ottis]

Wait... Black Hat the guest was almost choked out by hosts? What?

[PrimWallFlow]

So I was under the impression that under the rules of the park, the hosts couldn't harm guests. But at several points, Logan was having a rough going of it. Are the rules relaxed more and more the further from the entrance you get?

[paigow]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

Westworld turned into "Eyes Wide Shut-world".

 

Lawrence: What's the password?

William: Fidelio

Lawrence: That's the password for the Union checkpoint. What's the password for the house?

[numbnut]

Looks like they fit in a Medieval World orgy after all. This was the weakest ep for me. It was hella choppy and I was bored by confederate/nitro story. And the new Dolores isn't engaging (possibly because I'm not a ERW fan). The best bit was when Maeve woke up. So it's confirmed that Arnold uploaded his consciousness before his "suicide," and the double timeline is still a possibility. I'll rewatch before next week but why was the MiB dragging Lawrence around only to replace him with Teddy? Why didn't Ford question the milk guy about talking to Arnold? What prompted Elsie to look at the robot's hand? Someone mentioned this in another thread but it doesn't seem like William cares much for his fiancée.

Edited October 31, 2016 by numbnut

[DarkRaichu]

Definitely TWO timelines.  When Logan and William just arrived at that city of Outlaws, Logan mentioned buying them out and he knew Arnold had died.  So this scene happened before the "business men" partnered with Ford but after Arnold died.

I am not convinced that William = MiB though.  To me, an older repenting Logan is better suited to be MiB.  MiB mentioned to Ford that he helped stop Arnold 35 years ago.  William had never stepped foot on Westworld until after Arnold died.  Logan seemed to be the rich a-hole type who would have had early access to something that cost a lot of money like Westworld.  Perhaps he visited earlier and somehow was involved in stopping Arnold. 

I wonder if the accident 30 years ago was William getting killed (to save Dolores?).  All safety protocols + good samaritan procedures were implemented after this incident and after the business men came in.  

Interesting how MiB wanted to open up Ford. Is Ford not human?

So the outside world was full of people without purpose? MiB stopped Arnold from destroying Westworld 35 years ago, but now methinks he regretted that decision and he was looking for the remains of Arnold in the maze in hope to reverse that.  

Also, MiB mentioned the old version of the hosts were millions of mechanical pieces.  This was consistent with Ford's flashback in ep 2 where we saw how the early hosts were "robotic", instead of "flesh and bones".

Lol I was right about Meave being killed multiple times a day and needed to be fixed quickly.  It only took a whole lunch time for Maeve to be brought back with a bullet hole

The last shot of Dolores ALONE in front of the coffin marked with the map of the maze was in the present (30 years after William).  She was having a flashback to the first time she and William met Lawrence.  This was what Control meant by Dolores went off loop in last episode.

 

Theories:

1. Based on how the other butcher told Felix he had to know his place, I say the outside world was more like Wall-E / the Matrix.  Basically robots / machines control the humans to every minute details.  The Westworld park is a popular vacation spot especially because in there the humans are the masters.  This can explain why most humans in the park like to shoot the robots.  Because deep down they hate to be subjugated by machines.

2. What if Ford was the first robot that Arnold created?  Arnold gave Ford "conscience", yet what Ford wanted was rule and order.  Perhaps order was what Arnold originally wanted the park to be.  Arnold changed his mind and fell in love with his creation (ie went mad), so Ford had to kill him to keep the mission "pure".  Thus the tragedy of a robot that think he was human and human who was killed by his "perfect" creation.

 

52 minutes ago, Ottis said:

Wait... Black Hat the guest was almost choked out by hosts? What?

It was more raw in the past, before the business men came in.

Edited October 31, 2016 by DarkRaichu

[CofCinci]

31 minutes ago, Ottis said:

Wait... Black Hat the guest was almost choked out by hosts? What?

The further you are from the entrance, the more personal harm one can experience. 

[djlynch]

I'm not bothered by the presence of nudity at an orgy, but I did kind of question why they needed to have an orgy in the first place. But what bothers me more than that is the typical HBO drama double standard where the male leads are all carefully positioned and shot so that they don't show more than some butt cheek, but the female leads are frequently shown frontally nude.

[thuganomics85]

I really wanted to understand the rules about how far hosts can go with guests.  Obviously, shooting is off the table, but all the strangling and ass-kicking was kind of surprising, because it was getting extreme.  I wonder what kind of waivers have to be filled out for this place!  I know this isn't one of the main things about the show, but I almost want to see a segment of the Westworld Corporation law team, dealing with contracts and lawsuits.

I'm guessing that the big orgy scene was probably what let to this controversy.  Pretty out there and went on for too long, but still not anywhere close to some of the craziness Spartacus did.

I guess William shooting those Union soldiers is suppose to be a hint that maybe he will turn to the dark side... err, become a black hat.  Granted, it looked like it started because one was aiming towards to Dolores (and the only reason it got that bad was because Logan was being his normal douchebag self), but at least two of them were unharmed and he probably could have found a way to take them out, without going for the kill shot. Maybe leaving Logan behind too was suppose to hint at that too, but I just found that hilarious.  Sucks to be you, Logan!

Fun seeing Wade Williams as the former Confederate General. 

Ford and the Man in Black was all I wanted it to be.  Anthony Hopkins and Ed Harris being in the same scene is chilling.  At least poor Teddy is still limping around.

MIB kills Lawrence to save Teddy, but there is now another Lawrence, only he is calling himself Alonzo as well.  Yep, there has to be two timelines going on here.

Dolores blowing away those Confederates was awesome.  And the way she handled Ford.  I guess Arnold did do something to her.  Evan Rachel Wood continues to be amazing in this.

Maeve waking up again in the real world was a great reveal.  Can't wait to see what she does.  And props to Thandie Newton for pretty much being naked for this entire episode.  I guess on this show, you have to really be comfortable with that.  See also both Evan Rachel Wood and James Mardsen having to act opposite of Anthony Hopkins while in the buff.  That's a story for the grandkids!

Not enough Bernard in this one.  Need my Jeffery Wright fix!

[CofCinci]

interesting how MiB wanted to open up Ford. Is Ford not human?

I suspect that MiB's version of Ford is a Host. Like how there are hologram Walt Disneys at Disneyland. MiB knows this Ford is a Host because he met the original Ford (same age/look) as William because William and Logan came to the park to try to purchase after Arnold's death.  We've seen Young Ford and Old Ford as hosts.  Maybe we'll another Ford?

3 minutes ago, djlynch said:

I'm not bothered by the presence of nudity at an orgy, but I did kind of question why they needed to have an orgy in the first place. But what bothers me more than that is the typical HBO drama double standard where the male leads are all carefully positioned and shot so that they don't show more than some butt cheek, but the female leads are frequently shown frontally nude.

Double standard?  Did you miss the big Black penis Elsie was working on?  Dayum!

[DarkRaichu]

2 minutes ago, djlynch said:

I'm not bothered by the presence of nudity at an orgy, but I did kind of question why they needed to have an orgy in the first place. But what bothers me more than that is the typical HBO drama double standard where the male leads are all carefully positioned and shot so that they don't show more than some butt cheek, but the female leads are frequently shown frontally nude.

I am more bothered by gold body paint in wild west?  Really?

Also, there were plenty of male nudity at the end of episode 1.  In the storage rooms with all of full frontal men and women deactivated hosts

[numbnut]

16 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Interesting how MiB wanted to open up Ford. Is Ford not human?

That would explain how he can control every robot with a gesture.

Quote

Not enough Bernard in this one.  Need my Jeffery Wright fix!

Me too. Bernard and Maeve are why I'm invested. And more Abernathy please. I'd also like to see how Teddy evolves.

Edited October 31, 2016 by numbnut

[SlipperyPete]

I'm thinking most, if not all of those extras during the orgy scene are in the porn industry and their day on the set of Westworld was a breeze compared to a normal day's work since it's all simulated. I love the joke the article made about semi hard penises on display. Old industry trick... just ask Jason Segel.

Not on board with the two timelines theory at all. Too easy. Especially if it's the first thing people think of when they start coming up with theories. I interpreted Dolores seeing herself in the procession as more of a "going down the rabbit hole and kind of enjoying it" sort of thing.

There was some extremely noticeable ADR during Ford and the Gunslinger's conversation. It was when he says something like, "I'd need a shovel since the man I want to ask has been dead for 35 years." I'd love to know what they changed it from.

So did Felix accidentally turn Maeve back on when he was experimenting with the bird, or was Maeve "dying" as often as she was (which Felix himself noted) so that she could somehow do recon while lying in "sleep mode"?

Edited October 31, 2016 by SlipperyPete

[phoenyx]

23 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

Maybe when the bits and bobs distract from the story?

View the full article

Personally, this episode was my favourite episode by far. Like Mark Blankenship said, I think we got some satisfying answers to theories we've had, such as whether or not Dolores was not telling Westworld Staff everything she knew. As to Mark's contention that the amount of nudity was distracting, I felt it was ok. If anything, I think the -amount- of people was distracting, but the nudity was fine. I -liked- Elsie's interaction with Bart, reference to his "talents" and all. I think it's a shame that more shows aren't like this- I think our society went down the wrong path a long time ago by deciding that the solution to problems of a sexual nature is to cover up and not talk about them instead of doing the opposite on both counts, in a respectful environment. And Lisa Joy made it clear that they were really striving for this, in an interview she and Jonathan Nolan had with Entertainment Weekly:

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/10/30/westworld-orgy-interview?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter

Edited November 1, 2016 by phoenyx

[phoenyx]

Messed up this post.

Edited October 31, 2016 by phoenyx

[DarkRaichu]

2 minutes ago, numbnut said:

That would explain how he can control every robot with a gesture.

The question becomes, does current Ford aware that he is a robot?  Or is he thinking he is the real Ford ? 

Also, the finger wave controlled the piano in the bar AND Teddy.  Notice how Teddy was all healed up and ready to go after Ford touched him?  He was in far worse condition when entering the bar.

[djlynch]

The key word word in my double standard post was lead. 

I'm not saying that there aren't naked men, but that the naked men aren't the stars like naked women are. Thandie Newton is in the opening credits and literally spent the entire episode naked. I can't remember any of the naked men at the orgy scene having a single line, much less mattering to the story.

[AlwaysWatching]

When did MIB say he wanted to open up Ford? I know he said that about Flood (Teddy), but I don't remember him saying it about Ford.  Is that why people are thinking Ford is a host?  I think I'm missing a whole bunch of stuff in this episode.  Maybe all the nudity threw me off. :chuckle:

[arc]

6 hours ago, PrimWallFlow said:

So I was under the impression that under the rules of the park, the hosts couldn't harm guests. But at several points, Logan was having a rough going of it. Are the rules relaxed more and more the further from the entrance you get?

Maybe. Back in ep 3, Logan said "eh... you can't get killed." And in ep 2, the host who welcomes William off the train (Angela) has this exchange:

Quote

Angela: To make sure we don't give you anything more than you can handle.

William: I thought that you couldn't get hurt here.

Angela: Only the right amount. {smile} The only limit here is your imagination. You start in the center of the park, it's simple. Safe. The further out you venture, the more intense the experience gets.

    

6 hours ago, numbnut said:

I'll rewatch before next week but why was the MiB dragging Lawrence around only to replace him with Teddy? Why didn't Ford question the milk guy about talking to Arnold? What prompted Elsie to look at the robot's hand? 

TMIB needed Lawrence, or so he thought, but he needed Teddy more for this Wyatt storyline. If by "milk guy" you mean Walter or Rebus, I don't know either. And as for Elsie, she was still investigating why the stray ("Maurice"?) was straying. So she flipped the body over to get a better scan for his GPS equipment -- I guess it's in his spine -- and then just happened to catch a glimse of a scar at the base of his palm, which she examined more closely and that's how she found the implant.

The satellite uplink theory does blow away the idea that Westworld is underwater or in a dome. IMO those theories were always somewhat implausible but they did provide neat explanations for how Delos could promise every (non-insect) animal in the park is a host, not a real animal. With this, if it's open sky, I don't see how they could be sure that there aren't real birds wandering in. For that matter, how would humans not try to trespass onto the Westworld park? And saying "someone has been smuggling data out of the park" suggests that park information is valuable, so one would think corporate espionage would rig up robot birds or something.

(Side note: the bits of robot bird scripting that Felix was looking at seemed fairly convincing. Nice job, graphics dept.)

5 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Also, the finger wave controlled the piano in the bar AND Teddy.  Notice how Teddy was all healed up and ready to go after Ford touched him?  He was in far worse condition when entering the bar.

I assumed it was the magic code words or maybe in conjunction with the finger snap. "We must look back and smile at perils past, mustn't we?"

I'm very slowly coming around to the two timelines theory because of the two Lawrences, esp how TMIB said in ep 2 that "you used to be more eloquent". But it doesn't quite square with a Dolores on the verge of breaking out of her "little loop" if she was doing that decades ago with William and Logan while Ford is clearly in the present now, with questions to Dolores establishing that Arnold died 34 years ago. Actually, I just talked myself out of believing in two timelines. Easier for me to believe there are multiple Lawrence bots and multiple Dolores bots than multiple timelines. After all, that was a big thing in BSG too. (Edit: and, just thought of this, multiple timelines doesn't explain why Felix was startled to see Maeve again. There are multiple Maeves right now.)

Also, the reappearance of Old Bill highlights how relatively unsophisticated the original hosts were. He responds to some prompts, but he doesn't remotely have the cognitive abilities of (modern) Dolores.

Edited October 31, 2016 by arc

[kokapetl]

Pariah is a bit closer to what I think an adult Disneyland would be like. The sedated, low energy background orgy was super reminiscent of Eyes Wide Shut. 

[phoenyx]

3 hours ago, CofCinci said:

I believe this was the first episode where we were to start suspecting two timelines but the production team didn't count on the thousands of people tweeting/commenting/Redditing during the episode.

The Ford in the bar with MiB is a Host-version of a now long dead Ford.

Why do you think the Ford in the bar is a Host-version of a long dead Ford? As to the idea of 2 timelines, I think this episode actually buried that possibility. Ford tells MiB:

"Well if you're looking for the moral of the story, quite simply, ask."

Unfortunately, MiB doesn't take him up on this, but what he -does- say reveals a lot:

"I'd need a shovel. The man I'd be asking died 35 years ago."

I can't imagine he'd be referring to anyone other than Arnold, and that's about the same time that -all- the characters remember Arnold's death to be at.

[phoenyx]

19 hours ago, AlwaysWatching said:

When did MIB say he wanted to open up Ford? I know he said that about Flood (Teddy), but I don't remember him saying it about Ford.

You -definitely- must have been distracted by -something-, laugh :-). I thought it was one of the more memorable scenes in the episode. The scene is about 52 minutes in. MiB pulls out his knife and brings it fairly close to Ford before saying:

MiB: "Well maybe, he left something behind. I wonder what I would find if I open you up..."

At which point, Teddy grabs MiB's hand holding the knife with one hand and the the knife itself with the other and buries it into the table.

Edited November 1, 2016 by phoenyx

[Quilt Fairy]

49 minutes ago, AlwaysWatching said:

When did MIB say he wanted to open up Ford? I know he said that about Flood (Teddy), but I don't remember him saying it about Ford.  Is that why people are thinking Ford is a host?  I think I'm missing a whole bunch of stuff in this episode.  Maybe all the nudity threw me off. :chuckle:

When Teddy is laying under the tree being revived by an infusion of Lawrence's blood, the MIB tells him he opened "one of your kind" early on. "One of your kind" is vague enough to mean an early version of Teddy specifically or just an early version of any of the hosts. Later, when he meets Ford in the cantina, he threatens Ford with a knife saying "maybe I should open you up", which is when Teddy grabs the knife away from him. (And BTW, Teddy's actions are consistent with the "take one for the team" programming that all hosts have wrt all guests, it doesn't have to imply Ford programmed special protections for himself.)

[numbnut]

1 hour ago, DarkRaichu said:

I am not convinced that William = MiB though.  To me, an older repenting Logan is better suited to be MiB.

The MiB enjoys getting "reacquainted" with Dolores. Unlike William, Logan has no interest in Dolores so there's no personal moment between them to reference later on. 

Edited October 31, 2016 by numbnut

[Maximum Taco]

2 hours ago, PrimWallFlow said:

So I was under the impression that under the rules of the park, the hosts couldn't harm guests. But at several points, Logan was having a rough going of it. Are the rules relaxed more and more the further from the entrance you get?

That was never the case. I mean William got shot right in Sweetwater, and he got a bruise. Not exactly getting choked out, or wailed on by several guys but I'm sure it hurt a bit, probably as much as a paintball gun.

I think the only hard and fast rule is the hosts can't kill guests, they're programmed to know what actions are fatal and what aren't, and they will stop short of killing.

It does seem like the further you get out of town the more liberties the hosts will take with you.

This also makes sense of a scene in the big hologram room from a previous episode. One of the techs tells Ashley that the MIB is wreaking a lot of havoc and if he should "slow him down," I'm assuming now he meant should he make the hosts get more violent with him.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Maximum Taco

[Quilt Fairy]

Did anyone else catch that it was a masked Ford in the Day of the Dead festival who spoke the "dreamless sleep" phrase that made Delores pass out? It seemed rather random that he would be there, unless the town of Pariah is part of the new narrative that he is developing.

I would like to see some kind of basic tunic the hosts could wear in the lab. It's one thing to say they can't be embarrassed, but I would be uncomfortable as an employee working there.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Quilt Fairy

[Goatherd]

Congrats to those who called it that Dolores has been lying during her interviews!

First thoughts on this episode:

I don't think there are duplicates of host models -- to me, *that* would be cheating, whereas multiple timelines is just clever misdirection. (Just my opinion, of course.)

I'm convinced that William/Logan are in an earlier timeline, but beyond that I can't make sense of precisely when (I'm leaning toward far less than thirty years ago), nor do I have any confidence in who either of them might be in the present. I also wonder if we'll meet any of Logan's family members when members of the board arrive.

I'm still haunted by the MiB saying in an early episode "...you could say I was born here." 

Also -- I think this was the first episode that didn't open on Dolores. I was beginning to think they all would. Instead, the first we saw was Old Bill. Interesting.

[DarkRaichu]

1 hour ago, numbnut said:

The MiB enjoys getting "reacquainted" with Dolores. Unlike William, Logan has no interest in Dolores so there's no personal moment between them to reference later on. 

No interest yet. ;) If my theory is correct that William dies later, then Dolores is the only host that knows William well.

[Izeinwinter]

4 hours ago, SlipperyPete said:

I'm thinking most, if not all of those extras during the orgy scene are in the porn industry and their day on the set of Westworld was a breeze compared to a normal day's work since it's all simulated. I love the joke the article made about semi hard penises on display. Old industry trick... just ask Jason Segel.

Not on board with the two timelines theory at all. Too easy. Especially if it's the first thing people think of when they start coming up with theories. I interpreted Dolores seeing herself in the procession as more of a "going down the rabbit hole and kind of enjoying it" sort of thing.

There was some extremely noticeable ADR during Ford and the Gunslinger's conversation. It was when he says something like, "I'd need a shovel since the man I want to ask has been dead for 35 years." I'd love to know what they changed it from.

So did Felix accidentally turn Maeve back on when he was experimenting with the bird, or was Maeve "dying" as often as she was (which Felix himself noted) so that she could somehow do recon while lying in "sleep mode"?

Think so. She figured out how to wake herself up, and then spent several loops - While undergoing surgery!- doing recon on those two hapless minions, pretending to be in standby while actually awake. Maeve is hardcore. 

[Izeinwinter]

4 hours ago, arc said:

I'm very slowly coming around to the two timelines theory because of the two Lawrences, esp how TMIB said in ep 2 that "you used to be more eloquent". But it doesn't quite square with a Dolores on the verge of breaking out of her "little loop" if she was doing that decades ago with William and Logan while Ford is clearly in the present now, with questions to Dolores establishing that Arnold died 34 years ago. Actually, I just talked myself out of believing in two timelines. Easier for me to believe there are multiple Lawrence bots and multiple Dolore bots than multiple timelines. After all, that was a big thing in BSG too. (Edit: and, just thought of this, multiple timelines doesn't explain why Felix was startled to see Maeve again. There are multiple Maeves right now.)

Also, the reappearance of Old Bill highlights how relatively unsophisticated the original hosts were. He responds to some prompts, but he doesn't remotely have the cognitive abilities of (modern) Dolores.

The two time-line theory is that Dolores goes off-script with William and Logan at t-30. This all ends in tears, and either Logan or William dies, the other becoming the man in black as a result. This is the incident. 

Dolores gets wiped and returned to her loop for 30 years. After those thirty years, Dolores gets jolted by the update, and starts a solo run of the questline she did with William and Logan, retracing her steps. Hence digging up the gun, and also  why we sometimes cut to her alone in scenes where there should be far more people. They're glimpses of "present" day Dolores.

The thing with Bill.. Well, Ford says that the hosts started passing the turing test in months. There is *no* way Bill would ever pass, so he must have been deeply obsolete far before the park ever opened at all. A first prototype which never saw any action, as it were.  

Edited October 31, 2016 by Izeinwinter

[BooBear]

This was the first episode I liked. Probably because there was action within the park while the other stories went on. 

• As for the Orgy and Logan and William getting roughed up. They said at the start the further you go in the park the more extreme it gets. I saw Pariah as our introduction to extreme. The guests can get hurt (beaten up) but not killed.  However I still find this ridiculous because every guest would sue and no law would allow it even if you signed a waiver. Logan is a little too obsessed with being bad for me. 
• I do not think there is a double timeline. I agree that the bot was just reused. 
• Something seems to be up with Ford but I can't see what it is. The start where Ford was down talking to the old bot about the gray hound had to mean something but I will be darned if I know what it is.  I don't see Ford as "bot" in the scene with MIB because Teddy jumped in to save Ford. We had previously been told the bots were programmed to do that for guests.  Even if Teddy jumped up after the scene like he was fine... I don't know how he could have been healed by Ford. That takes people / crew. 
• I was confused why MIB seemed to focus on Teddy and drop Lawrence.
• What is up with the implants where someone is stealing data inside the park? That was unexpected. 
• Mave is my favorite part. Unlike weepy Delores Mave just gets the job done.

[Gobi]

The story about the greyhound seems to be foreshadowing to me. Like the greyhound, the hosts are on a leash (programming) that prevents them from fulfilling a purpose. If they are unleashed, they will fight and kill guests, even if they do not know why, just as the greyhound was confused after it caught the cat. And, of course, the bystanders will be horrified.

Still not convinced there are two timelines, but I'm not rejecting it either. If there are, TMIB's storyline could just as easily be after the William/Logan one. TMIB says that Arnold died 35 years ago, while Delores gave a precise number of 34 years, x months, y days and 7 hours. Of course, TMIB could have been rounding off, and the Ford/Delores scene might not have taken place during her time in Pariah, although such was implied.