Unpopular Opinions Thread

[luna1122]

7 minutes ago, kieyra said:

We legit got more backstory on rando firefighter than Beth.

(I think Norman Lear has a new show out ... with Rita Moreno.)

It's based on his old "One Day at a Time"...is he involved in this production too? I haven't watched it.

[kieyra]

8 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

It's based on his old "One Day at a Time"...is he involved in this production too? I haven't watched it.

Yep:

http://variety.com/2017/tv/features/norman-lear-one-day-at-a-time-netflix-1201951714/

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, izabella said:

Remember The Jeffersons?  As a white kid, that is the first show I can now remember that didn't feature any of those tropes, though they did address social issues between blacks and whites all the time, with humor.  Back then, I had no idea how unusual it was that a black family would be shown as business owners, educated, and not involved with drugs, crime, etc.  In some ways, tv has regressed!

I grew up in Germany, where the three African American centric shows we got were The Cosby Show (which has been sadly tarnished recently), Family Matters, and The Fresh Prince Of Bel Air, all of which were about loving, mostly functional, middle- or upper-middle-class families. 

[ClareWalks]

13 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Family Matters, and The Fresh Prince Of Bel Air

I adored both these shows growing up. They occasionally took on issues relevant to the Black community, and for the most part were just a normal, functional bunch of people (Urkel notwithstanding, although it was nice to see an unapologetically-nerdy Black guy on TV, and Eddie Winslow being super-cool without being slutty). 

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

We legit got more backstory on rando firefighter than Beth.

That was a one-off. Beth is an original character that will be in the show for many years. I am perfectly willing to let them roll out her story over time. What's the hurry? We know she grew up in a large family. We know her father died from cancer. I'm sure with the format of the story we will see more of her and her part in the Pearson family in the years to come.

[SlackerInc]

4 hours ago, luna1122 said:

It's based on his old "One Day at a Time"...is he involved in this production too? I haven't watched it.

He is involved, and critics are going gaga for it.

[HeyThere83]

5 hours ago, Aloeonatable said:

That was a one-off. Beth is an original character that will be in the show for many years. I am perfectly willing to let them roll out her story over time. What's the hurry? We know she grew up in a large family. We know her father died from cancer. I'm sure with the format of the story we will see more of her and her part in the Pearson family in the years to come.

I don't think it makes sense for a show in its first season, with that season about to end, to have backstory on the firefighter and the Dr. before characters like Beth and Miguel. But I think the show in general will probably make it a habit to keep introducing characters and spending time focusing on them and really anything other than the central storylines they have started.

On 1/30/2017 at 9:47 PM, kieyra said:

I made it through 1.5 seasons of HTGAWM and only because of the lead actress. Well, and the actress from Gilmore Girls. Jeez, drawing a blank on both names. I suck. But generally I have a no-Shondaland rule. Empire is in a similar vein. OMGWTF! moments and plot twists drive the stories, not the characters. The characters behave in whatever way is necessary to set up the OMGWTF! moments. This Is Us is a little more subtle about it, or at least started out that way, right up until Toby did a patented Grey's Anatomy post-coital death-crash into an anvil coffee table full of food. And the reveal of William's bisexuality. (I always feel weird typing this, because obviously there's nothing wrong with being bisexual, I just object to the way they saved it up as a 'gotcha!' twist. It felt unearned, and like something they just decided to do the week before as a ... wait for it ... OMGWTF! moment.) 

Unrelated, but at this point I have a pet theory that the show started out, on paper at least, as mostly being about Randall, and they worked backwards from there to create the other characters. I know Jack is theoretically the 'heart' of the show (god knows they're not going to give Rebecca that honor), but Randall's modern-day life seems the most detailed and developed, what with William and all. In a way, him finding William was the show's 'inciting incident'. (There's nothing wrong with the show being about Randall, I just think it may be why some of the other characters (the females, in particular) don't get to have as many layers--they were added on later.) Anyway, just a theory. 

For the most part I like Shondaland. Especially HTGAWM. The first few seasons of Scandal were great. But the shows don't try to be something they aren't, unlike what I think is the case with TIU.

Interesting that with William's sexuality the show wanted it to come across as though none of the characters cared or anything like that, yet the intention seemed to have it be an OMGAH whattatwist moment for the audience given the fact it was revealed in that particular cliffhanger episode.

[HeyThere83]

It just seemed extra. We already knew how the big three came about. I don't think that when it was written and filmed they knew they had years to develop characters. And I think they have so much to cover each week because they keep adding things on....and then dropping them. And then adding something else on and dropping that. I just read an interview with Justin Hartley the other day where he mentioned there was so much to cover and so many people to write for that he seemed happy this latest storyline turn with Kevin was being gotten around to.

[pennben]

1 hour ago, SlackerInc said:

He is involved, and critics are going gaga for it.

It is fantastic!  You need to give it an episode or two to let it get its legs under it, but boy it truly was wonderful.  I inhaled the first season over a weekend last month.  And the remake of the theme song by Gloria Estafan is really, really good as well (I know, tiny point).

[PRgal]

17 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

I adored both these shows growing up. They occasionally took on issues relevant to the Black community, and for the most part were just a normal, functional bunch of people (Urkel notwithstanding, although it was nice to see an unapologetically-nerdy Black guy on TV, and Eddie Winslow being super-cool without being slutty). 

Me too (and The Cosby Show as well.  My favourite of the three is Fresh Prince (made my Mondays - it was Fresh Prince and Blossom), though)!  And often behind my (racist) grandmother's back - she once asked me WHY I was watching a show featuring black people while I was watching a Cosby Show rerun.

[Neurochick]

My UO is I don't think an aggressive man has to be a stalker or rape-y.  I don't mind if a man takes charge.  I don't want to have to do everything, I'd gladly let a man take his load.  

[luna1122]

53 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

My UO is I don't think an aggressive man has to be a stalker or rape-y.  I don't mind if a man takes charge.  I don't want to have to do everything, I'd gladly let a man take his load.  

I'm not into aggressive people at all, in general, but I do like a guy who can take charge when he needs to, or when I can't or don't want to handle something. I doubt that's an actually unpopular opinion. The prob with the 'aggressive' guys on this show--Toby and Duke--is that they're also assholes. Toby is well meaning but oversteps way too much and while I don't actually think Duke is rapey, I do think he's predatory and creepy.

[Neurochick]

2 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

The prob with the 'aggressive' guys on this show--Toby and Duke--is that they're also assholes. Toby is well meaning but oversteps way too much and while I don't actually think Duke is rapey, I do think he's predatory and creepy.

But if neither guy made a move, even the wrong one, nothing would have happened.  Would Kate have talked to Toby, had he not been persistent?  Duke is in a different position because he is a worker in a facility where Kate is a client and usually in places like that there are boundaries, or maybe not.  

[luna1122]

I agree Kate would never make a move, and so Toby being persistent wasn't a bad thing. I'm a staunch feminist and independent as hell, but...well, hell, I like a guy to make the first move, for sure. Toby making his interest clear  was fine, for me,  but he did persist even when she told him no, several times. It worked for them, just like it works sometimes in real life. That didn't so much bother me, but if he'd really been someone she was absolutely not interested in, it would have evolved into being stalkery. I get why some people found it stalkery from the get go, tho. But it's also considered romantic by many, especially in entertainment.

Duke is just a dick, tho.

[pennben]

I've gone from "wow, I love this show" to "oh my god, I just don't have the energy to watch this anymore" so fast on this show.  Every time I've gone to watch the last two episodes, I just cannot bring myself to do it because I know I'm going to get mad about something (confirmed by peaking at the episode threads) and I'll be more annoyed than entertained.  I think likely at this point, I'll watch this season's finale and check out the first couple of next year's episodes to see if they've recalibrated anything.  And look, I fully understand if they keep on doing what they do, because they've got the ratings that say they've got it right.   It just surprises me that a show so clearly in my sweet-spot at the start just falls out of it so quickly.  I mean, I was fully invested in thirtysomething for a couple of years before I actively hated Michael and Hope!

[NutMeg]

With how irritating Toby is for intruding into Kate's private experience, that she has without him and seems to enjoy, I finally understand the purpose of the horse guy: to appear even worse than Toby is. Which is no mean feat, and explains why he has to be a complete asshole.

Randall's hands remind me of Betty Draper's. Beth should listen to herself from a few episodes ago, "in this marriage we have no secrets", or some such, and get Randall to TALK rather than vetoing a work function without having heard any of what's happening for him at work, as far as we know.

Sophie doesn't really interest me so far, she's like a nicer Olivia. Maybe that's why Olivia was there, to foreshadow Sophie for us, to remind Kevin of her? Despite what Sophie said, I've found Kevin looking almost rodent like these last two episodes, while he was indeed glowing until then, maybe it happens to actors when they don't get a very compelling story.

I'm with Jack on that you can keep a relation going with injecting in it some of what got it started, but I also think you need two people willing to make it work for it to work, so while Miguel and wife seem to have thrown the towel early, if neither had their heart in it, I kind of get it.  

[Neurochick]

21 hours ago, luna1122 said:

I agree Kate would never make a move, and so Toby being persistent wasn't a bad thing. I'm a staunch feminist and independent as hell, but...well, hell, I like a guy to make the first move, for sure. Toby making his interest clear  was fine, for me,  but he did persist even when she told him no, several times. It worked for them, just like it works sometimes in real life. That didn't so much bother me, but if he'd really been someone she was absolutely not interested in, it would have evolved into being stalkery. I get why some people found it stalkery from the get go, tho. But it's also considered romantic by many, especially in entertainment.

Duke is just a dick, tho.

Relationships are like a dance, it's not one way or another.  There's not one way to navigate one.  Some women were taught, as girls, not to appear too eager, so they'll say no to the guy, but let him know, through body language that they're interested.  

The problem I have with Kate is she doesn't get boundaries; maybe it's because she's never seen herself as desirable?  If anything, she should report Duke.  He is a dick and I get angry at Kate for even talking to him.  She knows he's a dick but she keeps engaging him, letting him get to her.  A guy like Duke deserves only two words from any woman, "fuck off," or three words, "go fuck yourself."  

[Portia]

I regularly find myself thinking, "That William has a lot of nerve." Especially the time he made Randall miss work so he could drive Randall's car and spend Randall's money on sunglasses. Am I really supposed to think that this is okay just because he's dying?  Maybe I just lucked out, but even when he was elderly my own father was never that selfish . . . and he'd been my dad for my entire life, so I owed him a lot.

I also think Randall should have been "allowed" to decide that his business obligation needed to take precedence over that chess tournament. Most parents have to make a call like this at some point or another. 

Randall is one of my favorite characters, but I'm ready for him to stop making decisions based on guilt or fear of being less than perfect.

[ShadowFacts]

8 minutes ago, Portia said:

Randall is one of my favorite characters, but I'm ready for him to stop making decisions based on guilt or fear of being less than perfect.

I think he's mirroring, or trying to live up to, his father Jack's extreme devotion to family.  And I'm saying extreme because of touches like lighting up an empty apartment, bedazzling gloves for Kate's birthday party and the whole Pilgrim Rick deal.  He may not have been aware of the romantic first apartment thing, but he undoubtedly saw years worth of such things.  I think Kate is susceptible to Toby's big gestures for somewhat the same reason. 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Portia said:

 

I regularly find myself thinking, "That William has a lot of nerve." Especially the time he made Randall miss work so he could drive Randall's car and spend Randall's money on sunglasses. Am I really supposed to think that this is okay just because he's dying?  Maybe I just lucked out, but even when he was elderly my own father was never that selfish . . . and he'd been my dad for my entire life, so I owed him a lot.

 

I agree.  Keeping a kid up past midnight is selfish and stupid.  Living with them to die is selfish and stupid.  Those kids don't need that.  They don't even have room.  It's all selfish and fabricated for maximum schmaltz and drama.  

I give the actor credit for remaining somewhat sympathetic and not totally unlikable.  But they make him walk this line of being angelic but then also pushing the boundaries of normal behavior waaaayyy too much.  But then again that's kind of the show's formula:  How many boundaries can the characters violate per episode.  

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I agree.  Keeping a kid up past midnight is selfish and stupid.  Living with them to die is selfish and stupid.  Those kids don't need that.  They don't even have room.  It's all selfish and fabricated for maximum schmaltz and drama.  

I give the actor credit for remaining somewhat sympathetic and not totally unlikable.  But they make him walk this line of being angelic but then also pushing the boundaries of normal behavior waaaayyy too much.  But then again that's kind of the show's formula:  How many boundaries can the characters violate per episode.  

I think I would have been a lot more ticked than either Randall or Beth that Grandpa had the kid up in the middle of the night.  That scene would have worked better if it had it taken place earlier in the evening, with Randall just finding out about chess then.  But as to him living there, he was planning to move out to a nursing home, and Randall nixed it.  Having a dying parent is going to be stressful no matter what, and Randall being Randall, he would have been commuting all the time to visit him, piling on more stress.  Randall and Beth evidently don't believe in shielding the girls from the reality of death.  They did talk about it a little with Randall wondering if it was a mistake and Beth saying it wasn't, he brought them joy. 

[Guest]

It was sweet of Randall and Beth but I as William would've said absolutely not.  But the show is all about the hyper-sentimentality and nostalgia factor so William pining for his long lost boy was necessary, including imposing on them to soothe his own loss.  

In reality, as Randall, I think I would've helped put up William and Jesse (and Clooney) in a nearby rental.  

Edited February 9, 2017 by Guest

[topanga]

11 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

It was sweet of Randall and Beth but I as William would've said absolutely not.  But the show is all about the hyper-sentimentality and nostalgia factor so William pining for his long lost boy was necessary, including imposing on them to soothe his own loss.  

In reality, as Randall, I think I would've helped put up William and Jesse (and Clooney) in a nearby rental.  

I was about to interject that Randall might not be made of money, so he might not be able to totally finance another household. But then again, he's paying cash for whatever treatment William is receiving: the chemo, the medical visits, and soon the hospice care. Paying cash for health services is not cheap. Anyone with insurance knows how expensive medical care is when you have insurance. 

Here's my UO: I like the big 3 better as children. They were more interesting and compelling. I like the adult big 3 when they're together (at the hospital or at the cabin), but individually, Randall, flawed though he is, is the only adult triplet that I like as a person. There are aspects of Kate that I really like, but she has problems expressing herself and maintaining boundaries when she's around men. And Kevin remains a boy-child: cute and sometimes sweet, but almost always juvenile and selfish. 

Another UO: I find Jack and Rebecca's story boring AF. they seem to rehash the same story line week after week: I'm losing myself, and I've got to do something for me. But we've got these triplets to think about. Still, we must keep our marriage alive and happy. You're my soulmate. Jack, you're perfect. Rebecca, you're damaging your family with your decisions!

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, topanga said:

so he might not be able to totally finance another household.

I do agree but I'm thinking William and Jesse kept roofs over their heads so must have some income to contribute, and there are low cost options.  We just moved my elderly mother closer to me in an assisted living type place and Medicare will have to kick in when she runs out of money (assuming it's still around).  Though William would require nursing care at some point for that aspect, though.  He seems pretty capable so far.  

[ShadowFacts]

I'm not loving the flashback structure, where we have two sets of past happenings with Jack and Rebecca, and the present only includes the big 3 and is not very related to the grand love of Jack and Rebecca.   I may be too linear/logical, but I like flashbacks to relate to the present storytelling.  Once we get the Jack death scenes, I think the flashback connection to the present will become even weaker to me, where Jack and Rebecca are concerned anyway.  How the kids deal with his death may still be interesting. 

[topanga]

2 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I'm not loving the flashback structure, where we have two sets of past happenings with Jack and Rebecca, and the present only includes the big 3 and is not very related to the grand love of Jack and Rebecca.   I may be too linear/logical, but I like flashbacks to relate to the present storytelling.  Once we get the Jack death scenes, I think the flashback connection to the present will become even weaker to me, where Jack and Rebecca are concerned anyway.  How the kids deal with his death may still be interesting. 

In this week's episode especially (I Call Marriage), the flashbacks and present events didn't seem to be related, where they were better joined in other episodes e.g. Randall and Kevin fought as teenagers, and then we see them as adults, rolling around and fighting in Times' Square. 

[Kktjones]

8 hours ago, topanga said:

Another UO: I find Jack and Rebecca's story boring AF. they seem to rehash the same story line week after week: I'm losing myself, and I've got to do something for me. But we've got these triplets to think about. Still, we must keep our marriage alive and happy. You're my soulmate. Jack, you're perfect. Rebecca, you're damaging your family with your decisions!

This 100%. I'm starting to get so turned off by the Jack & Rebecca flashbacks that I'm considering just fast-forwarding through them. Surely they must be making Jack SO perfect in anticipation of some great fall, right? Or they're deifying his memory somehow since he's gone. I know my husband's mother has been sainted in his mind since she passed away, so maybe these memories of Jack are just the way his family is now remembering him? Either way, I find it so over the top that I can't stand his character.

This is also probably an UO: I find Jack to be extremely unattractive. The scraggly hair and mustache just don't do anything for me...

[MsJamieDornan]

17 hours ago, NutMeg said:

Randall's hands remind me of Betty Draper's

Wait. What ?

[NutMeg]

Just now, MsJamieDornan said:

Wait. What ?

First or second episode of Mad Men, Betty Draper, who was doing her best to repress some emotions, started having shaky hands. The symptom ended up disappearing after she saw a therapist. 

[MsJamieDornan]

7 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

First or second episode of Mad Men, Betty Draper, who was doing her best to repress some emotions, started having shaky hands. The symptom ended up disappearing after she saw a therapist

You're right ! I always thought they dropped that too fast.

[SlackerInc]

My UO of finding Beth bossy and abrasive seemed like it was being contradicted this episode...until she got all bossy again, to the detriment of Randall's career.

[Guest]

To me Beth feels like a worn out cliche-- the sassy, imperious, mince-no-words black woman.  

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SassyBlackWoman

[Tiger]

In think Beth is blunt, a realist (as opposed to Randall's idealist), and a bit bossy.  But "sassy" is never a word I would use to describe Beth.  And she definitely does not resemble the "sassy black women" we frequently see in movies and on television.  I think the only thing she has in common with those women is her race and gender.

[SlackerInc]

It's a good point that "sassy" doesn't fit.  And you're right that she is far more educated than the women typically associated with that cliche.  But "imperious" and "mince-no-words" fit, as do yours ("blunt", "bossy").

[Guest]

Yeah, she's not exactly like the sassy black woman cliche that started in the 70s/80s but she's close enough to make me uncomfortable.  I feel like they crossed that woman's bluntness with the more recent trope of the 'only black cop on the force and she's the chief' one.  Beth is superior to the others but also prone to "oh no she didn't just say that" lines like the sassy trope is known for.  

I guess that's partly why Duke doesn't bother me, now that they've softened him a bit from his first ep.  At least he's showing an actual behavior type that exists in the real world that I haven't seen on tv a hundred times.  Normally, the fat white guy is the class clown type like Toby.  Duke's a fat white male who's cocky and self-assured and the royal douchebro the Kevin body type could normally pull off.  

And in a way I feel like he's also partly the voice of the audience who is sick to death of treadmills and diets vs. self-loathing.  Which is refreshing to me as well.  

[ChromaKelly]

53 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Yeah, she's not exactly like the sassy black woman cliche that started in the 70s/80s but she's close enough to make me uncomfortable.  I feel like they crossed that woman's bluntness with the more recent trope of the 'only black cop on the force and she's the chief' one.  Beth is superior to the others but also prone to "oh no she didn't just say that" lines like the sassy trope is known for.  

I guess that's partly why Duke doesn't bother me, now that they've softened him a bit from his first ep.  At least he's showing an actual behavior type that exists in the real world that I haven't seen on tv a hundred times.  Normally, the fat white guy is the class clown type like Toby.  Duke's a fat white male who's cocky and self-assured and the royal douchebro the Kevin body type could normally pull off.  

And in a way I feel like he's also partly the voice of the audience who is sick to death of treadmills and diets vs. self-loathing.  Which is refreshing to me as well.  

I don't feel like Beth's crossed that line (yet). She's not neck-rolling and mmm-hmmming. It is something to tuck away though, that she's this truth-teller on the show. 
I agree with you on the point that Duke is refreshing in the "be who you are" part of his character. However, that doesn't work for me because he's an employee of the camp. If she had met him anywhere else, it wouldn't bother me. Also if he didn't have that 'you know you want it' crap going on.

[Tiger]

4 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Yeah, she's not exactly like the sassy black woman cliche that started in the 70s/80s but she's close enough to make me uncomfortable.  I feel like they crossed that woman's bluntness with the more recent trope of the 'only black cop on the force and she's the chief' one.  Beth is superior to the others but also prone to "oh no she didn't just say that" lines like the sassy trope is known for.  

I guess that's partly why Duke doesn't bother me, now that they've softened him a bit from his first ep.  At least he's showing an actual behavior type that exists in the real world that I haven't seen on tv a hundred times.  Normally, the fat white guy is the class clown type like Toby.  Duke's a fat white male who's cocky and self-assured and the royal douchebro the Kevin body type could normally pull off.  

And in a way I feel like he's also partly the voice of the audience who is sick to death of treadmills and diets vs. self-loathing.  Which is refreshing to me as well.  

I completely agree about Duke.

But I don't think Beth is anywhere near the line . . . IMHO, she's so far from the line that the line is a dot to her.

Seriously, I think she's blunt but her lines are definitely not the outrageous 'oh no she didnt just say that'.  Maybe I feel the need to defend Beth because she's the character I relate to the most, but I think there is an ocean between sassy, particularly the sterotypical black female sassy, and anything Beth has said or done thus far.  Her bluntness to me is a far more realist perspective. And I think that was best evidenced in this past episode, making the memory for the girls, reminding Randall that neither was prepared when their fathers died, and then calling marriage when Randall seemed to be spiraling a bit.  

[Guest]

The bluntness I mean is when it goes into rudeness, like telling William, "You are overstaying your welcome" and asking Kevin, "When are you leaving?"  That's not a realistic perspective, that's just surly dialog written to make her seem like she's above courtesy.  I guess it's supposed to be funny since we all would like to talk to our in-laws like that but we don't because it's rude.  But she has no consequences, which is even more unrealistic.  Neither house guest even left or reacted to the rudeness.  And Randall acted like she just didn't say either thing, too, iirc.  And she just ignored any input he had on both guests so he should've cared.  

The comment to William was followed by the Clooney story so she did wind up saying she felt like a bitch with that one, at least.  But she should've because it was a bitchy thing to say.  I'm not sure she even apologized.  She just decided to graciously lift her veto of his staying.  

I wouldn't let William stay with my family in Beth's shoes, and I wouldn't stay there in either Kevin's or William's shoes.  So the whole thing kind of relies on tone deafness and outlandish behavior.  Same for the other stories.  

[chocolatine]

24 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

The bluntness I mean is when it goes into rudeness, like telling William, "You are overstaying your welcome" and asking Kevin, "When are you leaving?"  That's not a realistic perspective, that's just surly dialog written to make her seem like she's above courtesy.  I guess it's supposed to be funny since we all would like to talk to our in-laws like that but we don't because it's rude.  But she has no consequences, which is even more unrealistic.  Neither house guest even left or reacted to the rudeness.  And Randall acted like she just didn't say either thing, too, iirc.  And she just ignored any input he had on both guests so he should've cared. 

With Kevin, Randall was the one who broached the subject first, but since Kevin doesn't get subtlety, Beth came right out and asked him when he was leaving. With William, she purposely went behind Randall's back because she wanted to figure out whether William was conning them.

[Guest]

But once she decided he was bad news, why not take it to Randall, why try to kick him out behind Randall's back?  Beth got William out of bed at night to question him.  Randall just happened to walk in to find Beth telling him he wasn't welcome, giving William a chance to explain.  She jumped to a wrong conclusion and acted on it, without even telling Randall.  He didn't even get mad, and she didn't even apologize, unless "now I feel like a bitch" counts.  

I know, it's unpopular an opinion.  

[SlackerInc]

I agree with your UO, except the part about not letting William stay.

[Guest]

Well, for me that's more about the 3-bedroom situation and their financial situation.  And not wanting two little kids to have to watch cancer killing new grandpa quite that closely and constantly.  It can get very ugly.  But with a big enough house and no kids... sure.  

[SlackerInc]

I am even more strongly for him staying due to the grandkids.

[Guest]

Are you going to give up your precious home office (we've never seen to do this job we've never seen) that apparently can't even house Randall's treadmill or a hide-a-bed for guests after William dies a horrific death in your child's bed, so she doesn't have to sleep in there after that?  ; )

[ShadowFacts]

Having a parent/grandparent live with the family and die at home was the way it was done not that long ago, and still is in a lot of the world.  Easy or pleasant at all times, no.  Randall and Beth have decided not to shield their kids from that reality, which not everybody would be able or want to do.  It's a valid choice, and William was planning to find a nursing home or hospice so Randall had that out and didn't take it. 

[Guest]

This is the unpopular opinions thread.  It's my opinion.  In Beth's shoes, I wouldn't take in a stranger with late stage terminal cancer into my 3-bedroom house while I had the resources to help him out otherwise.  In William's shoes, I wouldn't take these people up on their hospitality.  Nor in Kevin's shoes.  To me, that's the tone deaf part.  

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

This is the unpopular opinions thread.  It's my opinion.  In Beth's shoes, I wouldn't take in a stranger with late stage terminal cancer into my 3-bedroom house while I had the resources to help him out otherwise.  In William's shoes, I wouldn't take these people up on their hospitality.  Nor in Kevin's shoes.  To me, that's the tone deaf part.  

I guess I don't know if there is a rule in this thread about just stating an unpopular opinion and that's it, on to the next, or can we comment on a poster's opinion and discuss?  It seems like from the last number of pages, there is some back and forth.  If that's not in the spirit of this topic, I'll defer.  But I would say that yours is probably actually a popular opinion anyway.  Most people wouldn't want to do what Randall and Beth are doing. 

[Katy M]

19 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

The bluntness I mean is when it goes into rudeness, like telling William, "You are overstaying your welcome" and asking Kevin, "When are you leaving?"  

William was invited by Randall, so I would agree Beth was being rude to him, if she wanted him gone that was a discussion she should have had with Randall.  However, Kevin just showed up, announced he was staying with them for an indefinite period of time when he's never been close to his brother, so I think asking him when he was leaving was perfectly justified.  Kevin was the rude one in that situation.  Especially when he saw they already had a houseguest when he arrived.  I don't know how late it was, but at that point it should have been at most spend the night and then leave in the morning.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Katy M

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

I guess I don't know if there is a rule in this thread about just stating an unpopular opinion and that's it, on to the next, or can we comment on a poster's opinion and discuss?  It seems like from the last number of pages, there is some back and forth.  If that's not in the spirit of this topic, I'll defer.  But I would say that yours is probably actually a popular opinion anyway.  Most people wouldn't want to do what Randall and Beth are doing. 

Sorry, I don't know about rules and I welcome any back and forth.  I just feel like since I said I didn't think Duke was 'rapey' half the things I post get challenged as if I'm stating facts or something.  It's just an opinion.  I thought you might be defending the show as not being tone deaf.  I feel like in the UO thread you can criticize the show without worrying about hurting the feelings of anyone who loves the show and having your opinion refuted as 'wrong'.  I don't think you're one to do that, though.  

Good point that having relatives die in the home is less common now and here than elsewhere and than the past.  

[Katy M]

24 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Sorry, I don't know about rules and I welcome any back and forth.  I just feel like since I said I didn't think Duke was 'rapey' half the things I post get challenged as if I'm stating facts or something.  It's just an opinion.  I thought you might be defending the show as not being tone deaf.  I feel like in the UO thread you can criticize the show without worrying about hurting the feelings of anyone who loves the show and having your opinion refuted as 'wrong'.  I don't think you're one to do that, though.

I feel like you ought to be able to criticize a show anywhere without hurting anyone's feelings (OK, maybe the actual people involved with the show might have hurting feelings).  I mean, it's just a TV show.  I do think it's fun to debate back and forth.  I've even had my mind changed on a thing or two.  I don't think Duke is 'rapey'.  I do think he's a jerk:)