S03.E01: Nosedive

[romantic idiot]

I've only ever seen her in Jurassic Park? Or one of those ones. She was mostly serviceable here, but she hit the laugh spot on, IMO.

Still, Community did it better in terms of the story, IMO. Though the PTV reviewer is not wrong about this being good because of the aesthetics as well. Having said that, I feel it is a struggle between chasing your style or being taken seriously in some jobs in the corporate world. So, really, by the time you earn enough to not care, you have to. 

[NutMeg]

Hehe, with all the talk about the actress - who I have no recollection of having ever sen before, though I must have if she was in The Help -, I wanted to mention how I like that I hardly know any of the actors cast in this series (the exception so far was Jon Ham). I find it very refreshing because I'm not thinking "ooooh, well known actor, probably plays a big role in the story", which is a spoiler of sort in some procedurals, among others. [Sorry for verging off topic] 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Black Mirror's 'Nosedive' Could Be Your Guide To De-Pinteresting Your Life

Lisa Schmeiser is not a crackpot. She just thinks this episode illustrates that the primary peril of social media is not how it warps your social interactions, but how it muffles your sense of style.

[Maximum Taco]

On 2016-10-29 at 9:39 AM, marinw said:

Just popping in here with a question/plot hole:

Do they still use money in this world, or are people paid in ratings? If it is the former, then why not pay people to give you stars? That may not be legal, but there must be a huge black market in buying rating points. As in so many other things, the rich could buy rather than earn their status.

This is an interesting idea.

I wonder how much of a market there would be in ratings fraud. For instance in this day and age you can pay someone to play a video game for you, essentially them doing the clicks you are too bored to do. Could you pay a guy to just keep giving you 5's, essentially doing the same thing (clicking things on his phone)? How many 5's are you allowed to give someone per day? Would some kind of authority police this?

Law and Order: Ratings Fraud Unit -- CHUM CHUM!

[marinw]

7 hours ago, Maximum Taco said:

This is an interesting idea.

I wonder how much of a market there would be in ratings fraud. For instance in this day and age you can pay someone to play a video game for you, essentially them doing the clicks you are too bored to do. Could you pay a guy to just keep giving you 5's, essentially doing the same thing (clicking things on his phone)? How many 5's are you allowed to give someone per day? Would some kind of authority police this?

Law and Order: Ratings Fraud Unit -- CHUM CHUM!

And If everybody pays rating brokers or other people to give them  5 stars, then we run into rating inflation, and a 5 star rating will lose its' prestige. The whole system would have to be redone to allow 6 or more stars, leading to more runaway inflation.

The impact the whole rating system would have on the election process (assuming they still have some sort of democracy) isterrifying to contemplate. And can a truly horrible person get a negative rating, or do you bottom out at 0?

Edited November 24, 2016 by marinw
clarity

[hnygrl]

THis is fast becoming the norm in the real world. I recently found out that "celebrities" can earn from $10,000 a month and up, just for posting pictures of themselves and gathering followers on instagram.

The bachelor/bachelorette rejects post like crazy and earn 10-15 THOUSAND dollars a MONTH.

It's already happening. How do you think the kardashians, even the illiterate children, got/get so rich? Instagram.

Which - is probably - why I flatly refuse to open an account there.

[knaankos]

On October 29, 2016 at 7:39 AM, marinw said:

Just popping in here with a question/plot hole:

Do they still use money in this world, or are people paid in ratings? If it is the former, then why not pay people to give you stars? That may not be legal, but there must be a huge black market in buying rating points. As in so many other things, the rich could buy rather than earn their status.

Yes.She was trying to get a low price on the new apartment. So money must still be a thing

[Constantinople]

On 10/23/2016 at 7:23 PM, Portia said:

For years now I've been screaming at Hollywood, "Stop trying to make Bryce Dallas Howard happen!" Ugh. I fear I'm fighting a losing battle. 

That's why I think she was the perfect choice to play a 4.2 trying, and failing, to become a 4.5+

Edited December 16, 2016 by Constantinople
Because chlice isn't a word - at least I think it isn't

[NutMeg]

6 hours ago, Constantinople said:

That's why I think she was the perfect chlice to play a 4.2 trying, and failing, to become a 4.5+

Wow, good point. And as meta as I would expect from Black Mirror :)

[Paloma]

On 10/21/2016 at 7:02 PM, snowwhyte said:

it is really easy to get sucked into that whole thing. You post a comment, someone likes it, you get a little ego boost and suddenly you're chasing it like a high.

This particularly spoke to me because earlier yesterday--the same day I watched this episode--I had posted a comment to a New York Times video on Facebook and was amazed to see that a few hours later I had received more than 500 likes (and as I write this comment on PTV it is up to 900 likes)! It definitely gave me an ego boost and, as I checked back periodically to see the numbers, felt like I was chasing a high. And yet I don't consider myself a big social media person and certainly not concerned about being trendy now that I am in my mid-60s. Facebook is the only social media I'm on and until recently I was not that active--mostly just maintained personal connections and expressed opinions about some political causes. But my husband thinks I'm addicted because it's hard for me to stay away from Facebook for a full day. I can absolutely see the world depicted in this episode coming about, at least to some degree.

[DarkRaichu]

I like the premise but I agree that Lacie's speech at the end could have been stronger.  It was unclear if Lacie's plan was to bring Naomi down or to criticize the whole rating system.  If I was one of the guess, my impression would be she was just a drunkard who crashed a wedding party. 

Also, did they imply Naomi's new husband and his best man was more than just BFF?

[romantic idiot]

Maybe there was also that point - that she really wasn't a good speaker and her speech was going to be stupid. Which no one cared about when she was a 4.2.

[Brn2bwild]

On 1/6/2017 at 1:29 PM, DarkRaichu said:

Also, did they imply Naomi's new husband and his best man was more than just BFF?

That's the impression I got.

[Amarsir]

On 10/28/2016 at 7:16 PM, luckyroll3 said:

This is what I thought would happen as well.  That she would get deeper and darker in her rant, and a large proportion of the people there, who may have also secretly resented the wedding couple for the perfectness and fakeness, would have started rating them down and her up.  I liked the ending just fine, but think I would have enjoyed that a bit more.

I was wondering if they'd go that way, except it would have been a counter-culture ending where the protagonist gets a good result. Black Mirror doesn't do that. The closest it gets is "give them what they want and it backfires", as in Fifteen Million Merits.

The flaw you bring up though, which is where I think this world (and Meow-Meow Beanz) falls short, is the idea that there's just one circle. There would be people who hate the phoniness and embrace those being real or crude. Certainly the populace in this episode is incompatible with the one in The Waldo Moment. Relative quality of the episodes aside, the majority can't go both ways.

That said, perhaps we could imagine there was a war of sorts that happened and this was the crowd that won. Which is why nobody's higher than 4.8 - a few will say "screw it" but they've been marginalized..

On 12/1/2016 at 4:25 PM, hnygrl said:

THis is fast becoming the norm in the real world. I recently found out that "celebrities" can earn from $10,000 a month and up, just for posting pictures of themselves and gathering followers on instagram.

The bachelor/bachelorette rejects post like crazy and earn 10-15 THOUSAND dollars a MONTH.

It's already happening. How do you think the kardashians, even the illiterate children, got/get so rich? Instagram.

We've certainly seen the negative consequences too. For example, if a show does something the wrong people don't like, they use social media to mobilize against any sponsor in a 5 mile radius. So you can't just be nice to everyone; if someone's out of favor you have to dislike them as well.

On 12/29/2016 at 2:09 PM, Paloma said:

This particularly spoke to me because earlier yesterday--the same day I watched this episode--I had posted a comment to a New York Times video on Facebook and was amazed to see that a few hours later I had received more than 500 likes (and as I write this comment on PTV it is up to 900 likes)! It definitely gave me an ego boost and, as I checked back periodically to see the numbers, felt like I was chasing a high. And yet I don't consider myself a big social media person and certainly not concerned about being trendy now that I am in my mid-60s. Facebook is the only social media I'm on and until recently I was not that active--mostly just maintained personal connections and expressed opinions about some political causes. But my husband thinks I'm addicted because it's hard for me to stay away from Facebook for a full day. I can absolutely see the world depicted in this episode coming about, at least to some degree.

What's really maddening is sites unlike PTV that have downvotes as well, in which they are done anonymously. That's something even this episode didn't get into. But imagine sharing an opinion, fact, link, or image and the only responses you get is that a bunch people didn't like it: you don't know who, and nobody said why. At least here Lacie got to storm back to the guy at the charging station and demand an answer.

[methodwriter85]

Quote

I was sort of hoping that the guests were going to start down rating Naomi because crazy Lacie was her oldest friend, and the longer the rant went on, the lower Naomi's score went.  But I still liked it overall.  China is actually already instituting a "social credit score" very similar to this.

I think the damage comes later for Naomi. People were going to be nice in the moment, but I think after this her rep is toast. No one is going to want to come to her social functions after this.

Quote

That's why I think she was the perfect choice to play a 4.2 trying, and failing, to become a 4.5+

I think at this point it's become pretty clear that Bryce Dallas Howard is never becoming a leading A-list nepotism lady unlike Gwyneth Paltrow and Kate Hudson did. (For a time, anyway.) I think her career is about where it should be- I think she's competent enough for a solid acting career but it's no great loss that she isn't a top-tier actress.

But yeah, I can't imagine she isn't just a little disappointed at the fact that she isn't A-list, which really does make her perfect as someone who's an "almost."

Quote

Also, did they imply Naomi's new husband and his best man was more than just BFF?

 No, Alan Ritchson for whatever reason manages to give off this homoerotic vibe to him. LOL.

Seriously though...I think you could go with that interpretation, but I kind of had another one. What if Thad and Chad were basically going for a "Oh, we're so bromantic vibe!" but they kind of just overdid it? If we're going with the idea that this is basically our society in say about 10-15 years, you could say that slash fangirls have basically grown up and become the mainstream, and therefore seeing two hot straight dudes acting all bromantic with each other plays well with their intended demographic. It definitely seemed like they were getting upvoted while they were bromancing each other.

As a guy who's a member of Reddit and does Twitter, this struck me as way accurate about where things are going.

[Dobian]

This was the first episode I watched of this series (didn't know I had season 3 open).  Great satire and pretty relevant.  I stay off Facebook exactly because of the nonsense illustrated in this story.  Of course, structuring a society around popularity and rating people would be a total disaster.  Even in an elitist cabal like at Naomi's wedding, people would turn on each other after affairs are discovered, someone gets screwed in a business deal, etc.  Low-rated people like Trucker Momma could band together to take down highly rated people just at random.  The hapless victim suddenly bombarded with hundreds of "1s"; even if the scores are weighted less because of the rating of the score giver, the sheer numbers would overcome that.  It would be a complete mess, lol.  I liked the chain of events leading to Lacie's downfall.  She was clearly one of those people no one really likes, but she tries so hard kissing butt everywhere to manufacture her 4.2 rating.  Just like all those people on Facebook with the 500 "friends".  Howard was good cast in that role.  I loved her brother, who saw right through her BS.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Dobian

[MCMLXXVII]

On 2/22/2017 at 5:20 PM, methodwriter85 said:

I think the damage comes later for Naomi. People were going to be nice in the moment, but I think after this her rep is toast. No one is going to want to come to her social functions after this.

Yes! The ending reminded me so much of the beginning of the movie "Muriel's Wedding". I was hoping some of the guests would revolt against the couple. That also dealt with similar themes of popularity, and desire to join the ranks of the "beautiful people", but in a '90s pre-social media way.

[methodwriter85]

4 hours ago, MCMLXXVII said:

Yes! The ending reminded me so much of the beginning of the movie "Muriel's Wedding". I was hoping some of the guests would revolt against the couple. That also dealt with similar themes of popularity, and desire to join the ranks of the "beautiful people", but in a '90s pre-social media way.

Naomi's wedding was supposed to cement her status as as an elite high-4 and Social Queen. Instead, it showed off that she has some crazy friend that crashed the wedding after being dis-invited. People are going to side-eye Naomi so hard after this.

[Blue Plastic]

I'm late to the party here but just watched this episode today and was really impressed.  I haven't watched any other episodes yet but this one was great.  It reminded me a lot of Truman Show in terms of the setting, wardrobe, and general commercial, artificial, not-quite-right vibe of the environment.

I was curious if the comic-con type people were as reliant on popularity ratings as most of the other characters.  If they down voted Lacie for hitching a ride with them under false pretenses, I missed it.

On 10/23/2016 at 8:49 AM, NutMeg said:

I love how they bonded at the end by screaming suicide-on-social-media horrors to each other without fear of repercussion.

This felt like a very near future. It's not out of the realm of possibilities to think that media influencers can already have better deals on their rentals - heck, I think I read recently that the Kardshians had free holiday somewhere because they show the place on social media.

That's why this episode was so scary, even though it wasn't gory and the setting was not portrayed to be ruled by a totalitarian/dystopian style government per se.  Just being at the mercy of random people, known and unknown, to get a high enough rating so that you can be allowed employment or medical care - doesn't seem that farfetched when we already have influencers and people who make their livings on Instragram or You Tube and apparently spend all day making social media posts to keep their popularity up and get more views and therefore get paid.  This episode just expanded that a little to show what could happen if everyone was forced to live that way or their very survival could be at risk.  *shiver*

[Cheezwiz]

Also way late to the party - I've been meaning to watch Black Mirror on Netflix for ages, but somehow never got around to it.

This is my first episode, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I found it especially chilling, as it really isn't fictional - although set in the near future, it's partial reality at this point. People who get tons of followers  on Instagram (dubbed "influencers") can make big bucks & obtain all kinds of perks just by featuring products or places on their feeds. There are many scenarios where people also "buy" followers for their social media campaigns. The idea that a person's social media popularity could be used like a credit rating is absolutely terrifying. (And doesn't everyone have that one friend on Facebook whose life is presented as just soooo perfect, they're unbearable to have in your feed?)

Bryce Dallas Howard has never really registered much with me one way or the other, but I thought she did a fantastic job in this episode - she totally sold her character's insecurity and eventual desperation. It was a fine balance of comedy and drama. Loved Cherry Jones as the trucker. As many people noted upthread, the production design was also outstanding - beautiful with a sinister sheen.

Looking forward to checking out other episodes!

[methodwriter85]

On 7/11/2017 at 2:24 AM, Cheezwiz said:

Bryce Dallas Howard has never really registered much with me one way or the other, but I thought she did a fantastic job in this episode - she totally sold her character's insecurity and eventual desperation. It was a fine balance of comedy and drama. Loved Cherry Jones as the trucker. As many people noted upthread, the production design was also outstanding - beautiful with a sinister sheen.

Looking forward to checking out other episodes!

One touch I like is that she had to wear the modern girdle in order to be able to fit into the bridesmaid dress. It was something small but said about a million things about what she was willing to do in order to fit in with a group of people that she would never fit into.

And the fashion aesthetic of the world just reminded me a lot of a modern Stepford Wives. Close enough to our own world, but just a heightened Stepford pastel sheen.

[Anela]

I watched this the night before Thanksgiving, and loved it. It made me laugh, and also embarrassed me a bit - I don't pay much attention to likes (although I do appreciate them, and hand them out regularly) - it was because I've ended up involved in drama here and there, and shut down facebook because of it. I can't stand the vague-booked, passive-aggressive status messages that I occasionally see, let alone the drama that starts between friends, or because of stirrers.

On 10/21/2016 at 7:02 PM, snowwhyte said:

i gave you a like. are you going to like me? OMG you haven't given me a like. Does that mean my opinion isn't valid? Do people not like me? What do i need to do to get people to like me?

Yeah, that is really exhausting. I'm not really into social media and i generally don't care much about what people think about me but it is really easy to get sucked into that whole thing. You post a comment, someone likes it, you get a little ego boost and suddenly you're chasing it like a high. It is really sad though. I wouldn't want to live like that. I did enjoy her brother being the voice of reason.

Same here. 

[iMonrey]

Wow - I had no idea Bryce Dallas Howard was so controversial. I had no idea who she was or that she was Ron Howard's daughter until I looked her up. Anyway, I thought she was perfectly delightful in this role and this was one of the most on-point episodes of the series, although maybe a little too on the nose. Most other episodes of this show have this vaguely foreign, alien alt-world feel to them whereas this one feels like something you could actually relate to.

[SWLinPHX]

On 10/31/2016 at 9:47 AM, wmdekooning said:

I guess I've been taken over/co-opted/made a 'pod person' for BDH.  I'd seen her in stuff, but she never really registered heavily as there is another actress who she resembles (And who is annoyed by this) . No doubt some Hollywood nepotism is responsible, but she is good enough that I would label it "good nepotism".

...are you perhaps speaking of the ubiquitous and superior actress Jessica Chastain?

On 1/6/2017 at 2:29 PM, DarkRaichu said:

Also, did they imply Naomi's new husband and his best man was more than just BFF?

LOL, I thought I was the only one who sensed that!

[SWLinPHX]

The people at the wedding and that whole entitled, privileged and self-congratulatory atmosphere made me think how easy it would be to hate white people if I was a minority, LOL.  It doesn't get much whiter than that!

[DrSpaceman73]

I liked the episode but :

1.  Like most of the Black Mirror episodes, they drag on a bit long.  Most of these episodes, this one included, I always feel could be about 10 minutes shorter

2.  Its gets its point across but this same theme has also been done before in several shows.  South Park and Its Always sunny in Philadelphia offhand come to mind as doing shows with almost the same theme and same underlying point. 

[Lady Calypso]

So, I know that this idea has been done elsewhere, and this isn't exactly groundbreaking or that different, but I do think that I enjoyed it, more or less.

I think the idea is quite relevant today. I think society is a less extreme version already. It may be more of a minority in today's society, but there are plenty of people who do look toward ratings and approval, even by complete strangers, in order to fulfill some sort of happiness that they're seeking. It's kind of scary to think about how often I've seen people acting similarly to Lacie, but also how I've done it from time to time. 

I liked BDH as Lacie. I do think she portrayed her quite well. I think the one thing I wish is that there was a few scenes to display not just Lacie's unhappiness, but others' unhappiness too. Because, really, this society seems very sad in their effort to be liked, while the people with low ratings seemed to be the happiest. Take her brother, for example. He didn't care about the ratings system at all, and he even commented on missing the conversations he used to have with his sister. Being stuck in your phone, desperate for attention from people who are just looking for the same thing, is sad. 

 I do think the last scene ended on a somewhat hopeful note. I think it was Lacie's way of showing that she was over her ratings system. Depending how long she's in jail, she could easily get out and go reconcile with her brother, who would welcome her back, unlike the people too worried about their ratings to care about what's in front of them. It still felt slightly unsatisfied. 

A couple of things I wish happened differently, but overall, I really enjoyed it. 

[Hanahope]

Ugh, the mere thought of my entire life subject to the whims of others is horrifying.  And anyone with a disability or different in some way, overweight, plain, whatever, and strangers can ruin your life even worse than now.  Very disturbing episode.

[CheezyXpressed]

I've been binge watching Black Mirror and I found this one a lot lighter compared to the earlier episodes. Which isn't a bad thing, but it was amusing since I think this is the first one that takes place in America. I suppose it also goes into the whole American Dream, which sounds nice on paper but it's a lot more difficult if you're not part of a certain status.

I did wonder if there's anyone who doesn't have this service though. What if you don't opt in? Would they ding you for it? I remember in real life someone asked me to sign up for a credit card and when I refused, saying that I don't need it and don't use credit cards, I got a look of bafflement and then a lecture about how important credit is in life. So maybe the same thing would happen in this world?

It was sad to see others give her one star just because she has a low score. They could have helped her, but because she's a low score they'll go out of their way to make it lower so they don't look bad.

 

On 11/5/2016 at 1:26 AM, millennium said:

I didn't like the ending.   It felt terribly forced and unnatural.   Also this series seems to glorify the F word.   They don't seem to get that the F-word loses its power to shock if you use it every couple of lines (as in the episode Hated in the Nation).  The conclusion, where the two inmates escalate to the point of shouting FU at one another, seemed neither shocking nor liberating simply due to overuse of the word in our culture.

I don't like the over use of the f word, but I thought it worked well here. At the end, they could say whatever without fear of repercussion.

Edited December 26, 2017 by CheezyXpressed

[Snorfbat]

Lacie's nosedive really got going when her flight was cancelled because of a "customer incident at the other end".

Would I be wrong to wonder if the guy in the next cell at the end was that customer?

[wrlord]

I liked this one. I'm amused by so many people posting on a chat board that they don't engage in social media.  Umm... guess what?

On 11/15/2016 at 3:38 PM, romantic idiot said:

I've only ever seen her in Jurassic Park?

I don't know.

[Mattipoo]

Fascinating premise for sure. So if everyone can rate everyone else they encounter on a daily basis, it must be exhausting to have to keep up those scores! Howard was great as the lead character, although the last scene was kinda odd. Who was that guy in the other cell and what's the point of their conversation? I think they shouldve just ended the episode with her being dragged out of the wedding party. Loved the truck driver lady, and wish she was in the episode more.

[Neurochick]

On 12/22/2017 at 5:36 PM, Hanahope said:

Ugh, the mere thought of my entire life subject to the whims of others is horrifying.  And anyone with a disability or different in some way, overweight, plain, whatever, and strangers can ruin your life even worse than now.  Very disturbing episode.

I'm late, been watching Black Mirror episodes off and on and I got to this one.  This isn't really the future, it's today.  Lives are subject to the whims of others.  If want a job/home/relationship, you are subject to the whims of others.  

The little things got me in the episode.  Everybody has an implant in their eyes, so they can see everybody else's ratings.  When Lacie is put into the cell, the implant is removed, now she can't see anybody else's ratings.  

The end scene with Lacie and the man screaming at each other was interesting and scary.  To me, it suggests that this society has gone so off the rails that the only reason people are nice to each other is because they want good ratings and once that is taken away, there's no reason to be nice and decent.  The society doesn't allow people to be human.

The scene in the airport was funny and painfully real.  We practically live in a society where people aren't allowed to be human; sometimes humans have meltdowns, but a lot of times they don't last long.  Lacie was having a meltdown and instead of compassion, she was treated as a problem.  

OT a bit, 12 years ago I was on an Amtrak train.  The train left from Virginia, I was going back home to NY.  I had a seat in the "quiet car."  A man got on the train and was a bit upset that most of the prime spots to store luggage had been taken.  He was trying to figure out where to put his luggage.  To me, he wasn't annoying, just thinking out loud.  Suddenly the conductor looked at him and said, "you're getting off this train NOW."  Everybody froze, stunned.  The man couldn't believe it.  The conductor called the police.  The man protested, he had a meeting in Richmond.  Then we all heard the siren of a police car.  The conductor told the man if he didn't get off the train he'd be arrested, so the man got off the train.  

And that's what Nosedive reminded me of.

[maestroGoetz]

I just watched this episode Nov 2022. I don't think I've seen a social media platform that is just straight up giving people 1 - 5 stars, but I know that happens with YELP and businesses. It makes you think of how ratings are put on people with or without their knowledge. Credit score, that's a thing. Having a police report or history of crime. Some of that could be enforced unevenly. Sometimes things with credit or crime just need to be paid or cleared up so it's a matter of education. I don't know. It was thought provoking...