Donald John Trump: 2016 President-Elect

[film noire]

41 minutes ago, candall said:

In reviewing your posts, rallymantis, I thought you made a good point comparing The Reluctant Rockettes to the bakers who don't want to bake cakes for same-sex weddings.  Either you offer a service that is available for hire by the public and you don't have the right to discriminate, or you have the right to pick and choose who agrees with your belief system before you perform.  You're correct--the shoe being on the other foot does cause me to consider both sides with fresh eyes.

At the risk of being called "hysterical" again or told I'm just posting "reasons!" : )  the two situations are only comparable in that both are illegal-- refusing service to gay couples is illegal, and in NY State (where the Rockettes have their employment contract) demanding an employee engage in political activity is illegal as well.   (Which is why I think Dolan backed off -- he knew he'd lose a lawsuit). 

[sistermagpie]

10 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

America has some dirt of him, but he's still our president elect and acting like a fool. We have a ton of evidence of him being the worst and we can't get him to do things in America's best interest. I honestly think he just likes Putin and thinks that a ruthless dictatorial style is an admirable style of leadership.

Seriously, the guy's already been accused of raping a 13-year-old girl. She dropped the suit because of death threats but if that is fine what on earth could Putin have on him? Thing is I don't think he needs that kind of blackmail. If they've got the power to take money from him or give money to him that's probably enough. Not to mention he's incredibly open to flattery.

There's a line they use on Trumpcast "Trump's razor." It says that whenever you're wondering about the motivation for something, the stupidest reason is usually the one. He could literally just be overcome by Putin's seeming powerful and want to suck up to him and be his bff for that alone because Putin helped him out and he thinks it makes him look tough. It's not like his supporters aren't happily cheering on the US becoming Lenny to Russia's George.

[Rapunzel]

29 minutes ago, rcc said:

That happened to a co-worker of mine. She and her husband went to France and since she is part Canadian she could speak French. They told everyone they were Canadian. She didn't want any problems if they admitted to being American. Sad but true.

I travel a considerable amount internationally, both for business and pleasure. I'm usually only in the US about one or two weeks out of every month.  I have dual citizenship with the UK and spend a good portion of my time there as my husband is a Brit and we kept our home over there. My accent is pretty much American, and most people in most countries know that I'm American, regardless of which other citizenships I may have. I have never once, even being in a few different countries over this current holiday period in Europe and traveling to Asia constantly - including China 6 times a year - had anyone criticize me for being American. I speak 6 languages, worked for the UN for a bit (and am considering going back), and have even been to countries that may be considered less friendly towards Americans, but have never had a problem based being an American. I run into more issues for being female in some countries than I do for being American.

I'm in Europe currently, and, when people know I'm an American, I get asked questions about Trump and how he really got elected. There is no hostility, even before I tell them my opinion of him, which is definitely not favorable. They are more interested in finding out what really went on, the types of people who would vote for such an asshat, and they are afraid of what his election will do on a global scale. They are not anti-American, they are anti-Trump.

I'm heading to China right after the New Year on business and I'll get more insight from them. I have several close friends over there from Uni and we've e-mailed and Skyped since the election. They are from my generation (I'm just in my early 30's), and they have more progressive views than others and tend to be more fascinated with western culture. They do not like Trump and don't hide it - they also worry about relations between the two countries but they do not hold it against all Americans, especially given that Trump lost the popular vote by a huge margin. They know that this is not what the majority of Americans wanted, and they do not hold his ridiculous actions against the majority of the American people.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Rapunzel

[candall]

7 minutes ago, Padma said:

Also on Trump because "undoing things" forces him to create a record of what he represents--...

Yes!  I am desperate for Obama to instigate that new protocol that puts the nuclear missiles on a timed delay prior to launch.  DT has amply demonstrated that he is just much, much, much too impulsive and reactionary to be the only person in the country with the power and authority to fire those missiles on a whim, on the spur of the moment.  Once launched, you know, they can't be retrieved or detonated en route a few minutes later, after the rage spasm has had a chance to pass.  At least give Ivanka and Kellyanne time to rush in there and pet him and soothe him and jolly him up again that he's The Best and The Smartest and everyone adores him.

I figure if one Prez can put the system on a timer, the next Prez can take it off, BUT I think it will definitely be a big bold entry in the ledger if the public learns DT insists on being able to destroy the world without having to pause and mull it over for awhile.

**********************

There was such a good report last night from one of the MSNBC people about a low level Russian guy--Stanislav Petrov, bless him--who refused to let the Russian nuclear missiles go, even though the system was screaming at him that the US had launched, and his superiors were screaming at him to proceed with the retaliatory launch.  He refused--AND SAVED THE WORLD--because he kept a cool head and just couldn't come up with any reason the US would have launched their missiles, ergo it was likely an electronic glitch, which it was.   Seems like we should all know this man's name and honor him.

In the future, of course, we won't be able to hope someone would pause to weigh the rationality of a US launch and ask himself whether everything he knows adds up to it being genuine.  It'll just be "Oh fuck!  I knew it.  That guy."

[Duke Silver]

4 hours ago, Pixel said:

Dan Rather just shared this. It's fascinating.  It's news most of us have heard, but told by the guy who uncovered it.

The story of a year of trying to find Trump's charitable contributions

The Trump Foundation story has been buried in a sea of shit.  I agree w/ the OpEd I posted from WaPo the other day, by a Hungarian expressing concern based on what has happened in her country: if anything brings down Trump, it's probably be nepotism/self-dealing (though #RussianHack MIGHT do the same, but self-dealing would necessarily be a part of it, IMO).

Anyway, I couldn't help but laugh at this quote from Fahrenthold's article:

Quote

 

I tried a Google Images search, feeding it a photo of the portrait, which showed Trump’s painted face.

“Best guess for this image: Orange,” Google said.

I got a screen full of oranges. Orange juice. Orange Julius. No portraits.

 

[EyewatchTV211]

2 hours ago, random chance said:

God I hope it's a freak 70 degree day.

Thanks to climate change (amazing to witness the obvious proof of its existence), it wouldn't really be a "freak day." I've been a little further north in PA visiting family but live in northern VA, and my phone weather app shared that it was a high of 68 on Tuesday. Last winter was very warm overall, with a few polar vortex cold days sprinkled in (along with the one quick/crazy blizzard that was followed by 50 degree weather the next day), and this winter appears to be following in the same path. So he may not have an excuse for his most supporters ever to not show up.

[Bastet]

35 minutes ago, candall said:

There was such a good report last night from one of the MSNBC people about a low level Russian guy--Stanislav Petrov, bless him--who refused to let the Russian nuclear missiles go, even though the system was screaming at him that the US had launched, and his superiors were screaming at him to proceed with the retaliatory launch.  He refused--AND SAVED THE WORLD--because he kept a cool head and just couldn't come up with any reason the US would have launched their missiles, ergo it was likely an electronic glitch, which it was.   Seems like we should all know this man's name and honor him.

His story is indeed quite interesting.  My understanding - from the press generated a few years back, like this article and the Red Button documentary - is that he decided not to inform his superiors the early warning system reported incoming missiles, but instead to report there was a malfunction of that early warning system (which turned out to be true).  Had it gone up the chain of command as it was supposed to, someone else may have made a very different decision.  But he had satellite radar officers telling him they couldn't see anything, he figured if the U.S. was going to start an atomic war they'd send far more than the five missiles being indicated by his computer, and he didn't believe the data could have passed through the nearly 30 checkpoints in the system that quickly to accurately produce the warnings he was seeing.  So he decided to report it as a malfunction rather than a warning.  I think it's true, as he notes, that him having had civilian education - rather than being a professional soldier, like most of the others who might have been on duty some other shift, who'd never learned anything other than to give and follow orders - played a role in him thinking as he did and making the decision he did.

Anyway, yes, one despairs at the thought someone in a similar situation during Trump's reign of terror would not be able to factor "this would be an illogical action for the U.S. to take" into their evaluation.

[KerleyQ]

It's really kind of sickening to see the comments from the Trump cult on various articles about the Russia sanctions and Putin's vow to retaliate.  They flat out refuse to believe the FBI, CIA, DHS, and every other agency.  They swear up and down that we can't trust our intelligence agencies, and are very "the ends justify the means."  They're even accusing President Obama of trying to start WW3 to make Trump look bad.  Right now, at this moment in history, it is so easy to see how Hitler happened.  And it's frightening and depressing to see it happening all over again here.  

[candall]

1 hour ago, film noire said:

At the risk of being called "hysterical" again or told I'm just posting "reasons!" : )  the two situations are only comparable in that both are illegal-- refusing service to gay couples is illegal, and in NY State (where the Rockettes have their employment contract) demanding an employee engage in political activity is illegal as well.   (Which is why I think Dolan backed off -- he knew he'd lose a lawsuit). 

It's an interesting question to think about.  I disagree that the two aren't comparable--heh, since I just compared them.  I think a good old fashioned debate would revolve around constitutionally protected classes, discrimination, states' rights and "best interests of society" arguments.

But currently it's up to each state legislature whether service can be refused to gay couples and your argument about the Rockettes is also based on state (contract) law, so I think at the very least there will be some places in which those two things will be apples and oranges and yet it's still arguable that there are some facets in which they're both more like apples. 

Just for the record, I abhor the people who throw down their religious arguments to support their ugly discrimination--not WJWD, imho--just as much as I would hate to see a bunch of women gritting their teeth and being forced to perform a celebratory high kick routine for DT--but again, I think it's interesting to compare the two situations.

*************************

 

ETA:  Re Petrov, thanks Bastet, for fleshing that out in more detail.  I thought his superiors screaming at him to retaliate was part of last night's story, but I must've embellished  : )  I'm still going to name a dog after him, though--my highest personal award for excellence.

Edited December 29, 2016 by candall

[Padma]

I've been skeptical about the whole "Trump can't get good entertainment" angle. Because I think most people have a price and I doubted that there weren't plenty of conservative or apolitical entertainers who would perform for him.

I'm delighted to apparently be wrong!  Seeing Boris Epshtyn interviewed this morning and desperately trying to spin it as a triumph that he had the three performers we already know about--Evancho, the Tabernacle Choir and the Rockettes--was very gratifying! That really IS all they've got so far.

I'm shocked, but pleased.

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, candall said:

It's an interesting question to think about.  I disagree that the two aren't comparable--heh, since I just compared them.  I think a good old fashioned debate would revolve around constitutionally protected classes, discrimination, states' rights and "best interests of society" arguments.

Yeah, I think there are obvious parts that are the same: you have people who don't want to do the job that's their job because they feel it makes them support what they believe in. I think there are differences that matter there. Every case has to be looked at differently. But one of those differences is definitely that when you're talking about the bakers they're definitely trying to push test cases for religious beliefs being justification for discrimination, which makes it more dangerous. That's why it's also different when you have people who insist on keeping the job they have in order to keep people from getting services. One dance who'd rather be in breach of her contract for not performing the same way she'd be in breach of contract for not performing because she didn't like her costume or the performance was on a high holy day is different from the pharmacist who wants to withold certain services or the county clerk who refuses to issue marriages licenses and forbids her underlings from doing so either. I think each situation brings a lot of details beyond just supporting the person whose beliefs agree with yours. If their contract said that any Rockette who refused to perform lost her job I would support them losing their job for their principles. But in this case that's not what was happening anyway. Performing at an inauguration can be seen as taking a specific political stance in ways that baking a cake for a gay wedding doesn't necessarily do.

[KerleyQ]

9 minutes ago, Padma said:

I've been skeptical about the whole "Trump can't get good entertainment" angle. Because I think most people have a price and I doubted that there weren't plenty of conservative or apolitical entertainers who would perform for him.

I'm delighted to apparently be wrong!  Seeing Boris Epshtyn interviewed this morning and desperately trying to spin it as a triumph that he had the three performers we already know about--Evancho, the Tabernacle Choir and the Rockettes--was very gratifying! That really IS all they've got so far.

I'm shocked, but pleased.

I think there are some who would be happy to perform for him, but they're not high profile enough for his tastes.  I think he had visions of people like Beyonce, and that was just never going to happen.  Now, to save face, he's going to go with this "small, low-key, intimate" angle, and pretend it was what he - the man who needs every single surface around him covered in gold - really wanted all along.  

[kassa]

3 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I expect Trump to lift those sanctions when he gets in office as a direct show of his allegiance to Putin. Seriously, I do. Because I think the Russians have a LOT on him, and it includes business ties we're unaware of.

It was a careful move on Obama's part precisely TO paint Trump into that corner.  Even Paul Ryan has praised this action on Obama's part (along with McCain and McConnell) - sure, they're all spinning it as coming way too late, he should have been tougher the past eight years, blah blah -- but they've all publicly supported it.  For Trump to reverse it is to side not only against our own intelligence agencies, but even against RYAN.  

The Russian response (pic of a duckie with LAME written over it) is apparently a sign of things to come.  They won't always have Trump to use, so they can just take their case directly to his fans, who no doubt will be spreading that meme for the next few weeks. 

[Rapunzel]

43 minutes ago, KerleyQ said:

I think there are some who would be happy to perform for him, but they're not high profile enough for his tastes.  I think he had visions of people like Beyonce, and that was just never going to happen.  Now, to save face, he's going to go with this "small, low-key, intimate" angle, and pretend it was what he - the man who needs every single surface around him covered in gold - really wanted all along.  

Wonder why Kanye isn't performing since he did go the Golden Tower and meet with PE Tiny Hands...

I hope Kanye does not actually support Trump. I'm not a huge fan of Kanye's (though I do like a few of his songs and they get stuck in my head on occasion), but I can empathize with what he has been going through recently with his health. Also, as we know, many have been summoned to the Golden Tower who aren't exactly fans of Trump's and have gone anyway. Kanye could potentially have been a bit more vulnerable given his recent illness, but I do hope he recovers fully and never agrees to meet with that racist, homophobic, misogynistic, bigoted, half-wit again. He should know by now that his "visit" was Trump and company using him. Trump was essentially putting Kanye on display in a strange attempt to show that he wasn't a racist, that he cared about the views of the "minorities," cared about diversity, etc. Given that the statement Kanye made about W live on the air after Hurricane Katrina is even more true regarding Trump, given who Trump has chosen to surrounded himself with and with things Trump has said, Kanye should realize that he was used for Trump's own petty purposes. I really hope he just went to the Golden Tower as a simple courtesy and doesn't agree with anything that Trump says or believes in.

Hell, Trump was probably Tweeting pretty much the entire meeting and they may not have had much of a dialogue anyway. Any conversation that may have happened was likely over Trump's head and he just likely mentally tuned out.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Rapunzel

[Duke Silver]

Haven't been able to keep up today, but for those who have the inclination, here is the official joint statement released by FBI & Dept. of Homeland Security

[NewDigs]

2 hours ago, Rapunzel said:

I'm in Europe currently, and, when people know I'm an American, I get asked questions about Trump and how he really got elected. There is no hostility, even before I tell them my opinion of him, which is definitely not favorable. They are more interested in finding out what really went on, the types of people who would vote for such an asshat, and they are afraid of what his election will do on a global scale. They are not anti-American, they are anti-Trump.

This ^ was my brother's experience in Thailand and Vietnam. He had a planned vacay, voted early and was overseas on November 9. All who spoke with him (meaning most everyone) were as gobsmacked as he. A big ol', "What's going on over there???", quiz. But all were friendly and most aghast.

I will continue to parse this jerk's words and I will probably even do some namecalling. Going high when they go low hasn't worked so great for the Dems. Fiiight! Fighting is not always polite. 

It sounds like it's not going to be easy for him to dismantle these orders and it's interesting that though the Repugs have mainly offered backhanded compliments about these tough actions most agree it needed doing. Even Ryan. Jerk.

Our clown prince hasn't been bothering with intelligence briefings, why should I bother listening to his word salad. Idiot. 

Good grief. He's trying to reduce diplomacy to fucking emoticons. 

Edited December 29, 2016 by NewDigs

[izabella]

42 minutes ago, kassa said:

It was a careful move on Obama's part precisely TO paint Trump into that corner.  Even Paul Ryan has praised this action on Obama's part (along with McCain and McConnell) - sure, they're all spinning it as coming way too late, he should have been tougher the past eight years, blah blah -- but they've all publicly supported it.  For Trump to reverse it is to side not only against our own intelligence agencies, but even against RYAN.  

The Russian response (pic of a duckie with LAME written over it) is apparently a sign of things to come.  They won't always have Trump to use, so they can just take their case directly to his fans, who no doubt will be spreading that meme for the next few weeks. 

I think Trumputin will slide out of that corner.  Trumputin has Rex Tillerson on his team, and the might of ExxonMobil.  Lifting those sanctions will allow an Exxon oil deal to go through worth $500B for Putin.  Exxon had even already built up their infrastructure in Russia, but had to dismantle it when Obama put the sanctions on Russia.  Trumputin will lift those sanctions and announce he's just made a fabulous, wonderful deal, the best deal ever (for ExxonMobil and Putin), a fantastic deal that will free Americans from Muslim oil tyranny, and Trump supporters will cheer the lifting of the sanctions placed upon them for hacking and influencing our election. 

This is how it's going to be the next four years.  Trumputin's staff will find ways to fool some of the people all of the time.

Edited December 29, 2016 by izabella

[Duke Silver]

Makes me sick to see several GOP'ers actually supporting #RussianHack...saying they are glad Putin hacked & leaked selected information.  Trump & Goons really have a mutual admiration society going w/ Putin & Goons, don't they?

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/814564127230271489

[AntiBeeSpray]

8 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I love that one of them quoted Kang (or was it Kodos?).

Which line? I haven't found it yet. Dammit. I love Kang and Kodos :p.

[MulletorHater]

24 minutes ago, Rapunzel said:

Wonder why Kanye isn't performing since he did go the Golden Tower and meet with PE Tiny Hands...

I hope Kanye does not actually support Trump. I'm not a huge fan of Kanye's (though I do like a few of his songs and they get stuck in my head on occasion), but I can empathize with what he has been going through recently with his health. Also, as we know, many have been summoned to the Golden Tower who aren't exactly fans of Trump's and have gone anyway. Kanye could potentially have been a bit more vulnerable given his recent illness, but I do hope he recovers fully and never agrees to meet with that racist, homophobic, misogynistic, bigoted, half-wit again. He should know by now that his "visit" was Trump and company using him. Trump was essentially putting Kanye on display in a strange attempt to show that he wasn't a racist, that he cared about the views of the "minorities," cared about diversity, etc. Given that the statement Kanye made about W live on the air after Hurricane Katrina is even more true regarding Trump based on who Trump has surrounded himself with and with things Trump has said and Kanye should realize this. I really hope he just went to the Golden Tower as a simple courtesy and doesn't agree with anything that Trump says or believes in.

Hell, Trump was probably Tweeting pretty much the entire meeting and they may not have had much of a dialogue anyway. Any conversation that may have happened was likely over Trump's head and he just likely mentally tuned out.

You have a lot more hope for Kanye than I do.  To me, it was a meeting of the narcissists.  Oh, and they both pimp their wives for their own self-aggrandizement.  I've yet to decide which of these tools degrades his wife more, but they are definitely running neck and neck.  Oh, and they are both on the record for disrespecting President Obama.  So there's that.  Assholes of a feather and all that.  When one can't see past his own "greatness," it's a bit much to expect him to see the big picture.  It may be true that Drump evidently thinks that Kanye has such a following that "the African Americans" will happily buy the bullshit he was trying to sell.  

But, as I stated when this mess occurred in real time, we have to also look at what was actually playing out that day.  Drumpf is a master of media.  He once again staged a distraction and found the perfect fool to use.  What was going on that day?  Well, Drumpf picked Rick Perry as his Energy Secretary, and Rex Tillerson was picked as his SOS the day before.  In addition, there was an article in The New York Times indicating that Drumpf's wealthy cabinet picks were undergoing financial scrutiny that he, himself, didn't face.  But, what did mainstream media talk about all that day?  The meeting of the two narcissistic minds to "discuss life," etc.

What Was Going on When Two Narcissists Met?

What I find amusing are the number of Drumpf supporters who vented their spleen because their demi-god had a meeting with Kanye.  Notice how Drumpf's courting and getting the support of white supremacists didn't move them.  Having Steve Bannon play a significant role in the Alt-White House and actually defending him?  Cool beans!  Or, how about being endorsed and celebrated by the KKK?  Well, uh...but Hillary's emails and that asshole Kanye!

I swear you can't make this stuff up.

[Duke Silver]

33 minutes ago, Duke Silver said:

Makes me sick to see several GOP'ers actually supporting #RussianHack...saying they are glad Putin hacked & leaked selected information.  Trump & Goons really have a mutual admiration society going w/ Putin & Goons, don't they?

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/814564127230271489

Arizona GOP'er, exhibit #2 (California GOP'er Dana Rohrabacher has been downright combative in his defense of Putin the past month or so; I have posted about that multiple times).

https://twitter.com/frankthorp/status/814538750696923137

[Rapunzel]

Apparently, it seems that two of the Russians removed from the US today by President Obama's EO were actually on the FBI's most wanted list. From Bloomberg:

Quote

In addition, two Russians accused of commercial theft and fraud using computer networks were hit with sanctions. The two, Alexsey Belan and Evgeniy Mikhaylovich Bogacheve, also are on the FBI’s “Most Wanted” list.

I wonder why nothing was done about this earlier, but, in any case, it makes Trump look even worse if he reverses the sanctions and lets these two back into the country. I have found other stories that give more detail to their crimes, but haven't had a chance to fully verify the claims. In any case, according to one site their crimes are described as follows:

Quote

Among them are two men who were already on the FBI’s Most Wanted list. Evgeniy Bogachev is wanted for a number of charges, including conspiracy, bank fraud, wire fraud, computer fraud, money laundering, and identity theft. He was indicted under an online nickname in 2012, and again under his real name in 2014There is a reward of up to $3 million for information leading to his arrest.

Alexsey Belan is wanted for computer intrusion, aggravated identity theft, and fraud in connection with a computer. Federal warrants were issued for him in June 2012 and September 2013, and the FBI is offering up to $100,000 for information leading to his arrest.

At any rate, it appears that we had Russian criminals working for the Russian government living here who most likely have the skills to hack various computer systems. If Trump jumps out in support of these people by lifting the sanctions that were just put in place, people who the FBI (meaning his buddy Comey) had on their Most Wanted list, he will show his ass to the entire world yet again (something I'm quite certain no one wants to see). This will truly show everyone what team he is really playing for - we all know it's team Trump first and foremost, but since he likely owes Russia a ton of money, they are probably a close second if not a tie for first. The American people fall much farther down on his list and that is becoming more and more obvious with each day, with each appointment, with each Tweet, etc. The man is completely unfit and incompetent and has clear conflict of interest issues. He also just doesn't give a damn about the world, diplomacy, the economy, the environment, etc. I think a lot of this is down to the fact that he just isn't nearly intelligent enough to even begin to comprehend all that is going on and he is so myopic in his thinking that he cannot see what impact one Tweet or one statement may have on the world as a whole. He also can't see how each action is linked and what long term (or even near term) issues he is causing. He's flat out too stupid to be forward looking enough to see this horrible chain of events - and even if he could, he likely wouldn't care. He also shouldn't have to be "interpreted" by KAC or one of his other deplorables  (a.k.a people being paid to pretend to like him and stroke his ego constantly whilst continually cleaning up after him every time he shits on the carpet). "Trump speak" should not be a language that the world has to learn.

[backformore]

33 minutes ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

Which line? I haven't found it yet. Dammit. I love Kang and Kodos :p.

??? Kang and Kodos?

[Duke Silver]

Exhibit #3

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/814599437850771456

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Duke Silver

[Duke Silver]

So deal with it as you would breaking up with your middle school girl/boyfriend, huh Donald?

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/814613243901739008

[stormy]

^^^Time to move on. Man he's gonna throw a hissy fit times 1,000 when it takes months on end for some of his cabinet choices to get confirmed, if ever.

Is the hair getting brassier? The yellow color is like an old doll.

Edited December 30, 2016 by stormy

[AntiBeeSpray]

58 minutes ago, backformore said:

??? Kang and Kodos?

The Simpsons. Treehouse of Horror.

 

1 hour ago, Duke Silver said:

Makes me sick to see several GOP'ers actually supporting #RussianHack...saying they are glad Putin hacked & leaked selected information.  Drumpf & Goons really have a mutual admiration society going w/ Putin & Goons, don't they?

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/814564127230271489

Guess they really don't like being held accountable for their actions, don't they?

[Duke Silver]

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Duke Silver

[sistermagpie]

29 minutes ago, stewedsquash said:

The above is a partial list of links to hoaxes about Trump supporters. If you copy and paste the links they go to the news outlets that reported them.

And your point in seeking these out is what? To suggest there's not real hate crimes happening and Trump supporters are the real victims? Because...nah.

[Rapunzel]

Regarding the hacking by the Russians, as has been mentioned, Trump has stated that it is “time for the country to move on to bigger and better things.” He said this after President Obama announced the sanctions against Russia.  Clearly, he does not want this investigated further despite the threats it can pose and that it can make the US vulnerable to attacks from other parties/nations as well. Just more evidence that the man doesn't give a damn about America or its citizens.

According to the Washington Post, Trump is now claiming that:

Quote

“Nevertheless, in the interest of our country and its great people, I will meet with leaders of the intelligence community next week in order to be updated on the facts of this situation,” the president-elect said in his statement.

Right – Trump is actually going to meet with intelligence leaders when he can’t even be bothered by, or begin to understand, daily intelligence briefings. He’s now claiming he will meet with the same agencies that, some time ago, declared that Russia interfered and hacked e-mails and whatnot. This isn’t something he should have to be “updated on” – this has been ongoing for some time and these intelligence agencies have proof.

The Washington Post also states that:

Quote

Trump’s posture put him at odds with Republican congressional leaders, who have condemned Russia for its actions, with some suggesting tougher measures than what Obama detailed Thursday afternoon. The president’s retaliation included the removal of 35 Russian government officials and sanctions against state agencies and individuals tied to the hacks.

The FBI and the CIA have concluded that Russia intervened in the 2016 election in part to help Trump win the White House in his race against Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton.

Again, how much more proof does Trump need at this point?

Sean Spicer has stated the following, according to WaPo:

Quote

During a conference call with reporters Thursday morning, Sean Spicer, the incoming White House press secretary, said Trump's views could change if more solid evidence emerges that Russia was responsible.

“If the United States has clear proof of anyone interfering with our elections, we should make that known,” Spicer said, adding: “Right now we need to see further facts.”

But Spicer said there is also another aspect to the talk about Russia influencing the presidential election.

“I think you have a lot of folks on the left who continue to undermine the legitimacy of his win and the nature of how big that win was,” Spicer said. He called that behavior “unfortunate.”

Again, what further fucking facts are needed? All the intelligence agencies agree that that Russia interfered and that Russia hacked our systems. Two of the Russians on the list to be expelled are on the FBI’s most wanted list largely for cyber crimes.

Spicer's delusions about "how big that win was" is just comical at this point. Trump lost the popular vote by basically the largest margin in history. Trump is NOT America's choice.

Spicer also claims that the DNC itself is to blame for the hacking. Per WaPo, he stated that:

Quote

"At some point, the question hasn't even been asked of the [Democratic National Committee]: Did you take basic measures to protect the data that was on there?" said Spicer, who spoke shortly before the Obama administration announced its actions. "Where's the responsibility of them to protect their systems?"

Is Trump taking measures to protect his beloved toy Twitter? What happens when he is President? Will he keep using his personal account? What about the private servers that are likely being set up for his kids and whatnot who will surely have access to confidential/classified info (he's even stated that he wanted them to be able to have access to such info)? Where is Trump’s responsibility not to launch us into WWIII by sending an idiotic Tweet in the wee hours of the morning just because someone or something rubbed his ever so fragile ego the wrong way? The man is an imbecile – plain and simple. He calls computers/technology “the cyber” for fuck’s sake. He has no idea what he is doing with his insane rants via Twitter, the only app he appears to be able to use.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Rapunzel

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, Rapunzel said:

Again, what further fucking facts are needed? All the intelligence agencies agree that that Russia interfered and that Russia hacked our systems. Two of the Russians on the list to be expelled are on the FBI’s most wanted list largely for cyber crimes.

Sounds like a classic time delay to me. He doesn't want to believe it, he never will believe it, but saying "I'm going to get updated" is like acting like you just realized your bill was overdo and now you'll totally write a check and send it. It's a way of pretending he's on it when he's totally not on it.

[Duke Silver]

^^^ Laughable, I know (perhaps???), he's subconsciously deploying a child's tactics...delay in the hope it will be forgotten about.

[Padma]

Robert Reich has great ideas!  http://www.newsweek.com/robert-reich-seven-things-obama-should-do-he-leaves-office-536804

If Obama appoints Merrick Garland during the recess, it's only good till Dec 2017--but that would be a HUGE help in that first, corrupt year!  Do it, do it, please!!!!!

[Duke Silver]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/312168-conway-obamas-actions-against-russia-seem-largely-symbolic

 

Translation: They don't matter...we'll roll them back 1/21

[Padma]

6 minutes ago, stewedsquash said:

Don't worry, most of the stuff about those things are hoaxes. 

The California professor's death threats were/are very real, including posting photos of her home and driver's license information.  And WaPost's David Fahrenthold wrote about having the FBI agent come to his home after getting threatened. She told him and his wife that "Your car is parked too far from the house.  They probably won't put a car bomb in it, though, but they might cut the brakes."

Some may be idle threats, but some of those people are so imbalanced that having them track your personal information--including home address--and send death threats to your family would unnerve and frighten anyone. (And let's not forget Trump's own "Second Amendment solution")

[Duke Silver]

[NinjaPenguins]

I'm trying to discern the purpose of that hoax list. Does the existence of hoaxes somehow nullify the real and actual hate crimes and harassment that occur? I am virtually certain reality doesn't work that way. 

That leads me to believe it's an attempt to muddy the waters for less dedicated consumers of news. "Oh look, aren't both sides terrible? They're all such liars." And then there's creating the illusion of the boy who cried wolf; pump out enough hoax lists and victims of actual aggression won't be believed, allowing bigots the freedom to operate unencumbered by public disapproval. 

I can only assure Orange fans that I personally waste no time thinking of ways to persecute them. There is nothing worse that we on the left can do to you than what you did to yourselves when you cast your ballot on Black Tuesday.

[sistermagpie]

14 minutes ago, stewedsquash said:

Don't worry, most of the stuff about those things are hoaxes. 

Whether or not the original poster has any reason to be afraid, no, you did not just give evidence that "most" of "those things" are hoaxes.

Also, interestingly, I think one of the things on your list was talked about in an article recently linked. The one about trying to be aware of your biases. The arson at the church was not a hate crime, but it was also not a hoax. It was someone using the current political situation to cover up a robbery.

2 minutes ago, NinjaPenguins said:

That leads me to believe it's an attempt to muddy the waters for less dedicated consumers of news. "Oh look, aren't both sides terrible? They're all such liars." And then there's creating the illusion of the boy who cried wolf; pump out enough hoax lists and victims of actual aggression won't be believed, allowing bigots the freedom to operate unencumbered by public disapproval. 

Yup, bigotry is always fake. Nobody's a bigot except those minorities forcing us to be politically correct. I didn't hear any dog whistle, did you?

[Bastet]

Quote

“I think you have a lot of folks on the left who continue to undermine the legitimacy of his win and the nature of how big that win was,” Spicer said.

Because it wasn't, fucknut.  He lost the popular vote and his margin of victory in the Electoral College vote ranks among the slimmest in that institution's history.  Running around calling something a landslide doesn't magically turn it into one.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Bastet

[Padma]

You can just hear how Trump lives in an echo chamber.  He keeps saying "It was an historic victory! Incredible! A landslide!" And his people--KAC, Spicer, Bannon, the surrogates--just keep feeding his delusions back to him as if it is all true.

 I remember KAC saying that when they absolutely HAD to tell him some tiny critical point, they had to preface it by tons of praise and flattery. He doesn't want to be told the truth about anything, if it contradicts his core message of "I'm the greatest!"  And he surrounds himself with "yes-people".

Of all the dangerous things about him, that one probably frightens me the most.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Padma

[KerleyQ]

And, I mean, we know that they all know that his win was not a landslide by any means, and it's only historic in terms of how badly he lost in winning.  But, they keep telling him that because he's their useful idiot, and they need to pat him on the head and give him a cookie so that he'll keep listening to them.  They can't let him be exposed to reality.  

[annzeepark914]

50 minutes ago, Padma said:

The California professor's death threats were/are very real, including posting photos of her home and driver's license information.  And WaPost's David Fahrenthold wrote about having the FBI agent come to his home after getting threatened. She told him and his wife that "Your car is parked too far from the house.  They probably won't put a car bomb in it, though, but they might cut the brakes."

Some may be idle threats, but some of those people are so imbalanced that having them track your personal information--including home address--and send death threats to your family would unnerve and frighten anyone. (And let's not forget Trump's own "Second Amendment solution")

I met a campaign volunteer who gave her elderly dad a Veterans for Tim Kaine bumper sticker (back when he was running for Governor of VA).  He put it on his car which was parked in her driveway.  The next morning they found garbage had been dumped all over his car (real garbage--coffee grounds, peels, nasty stuff, etc). So I do worry about the subhumans attracted to the Republican candidates.  It's no hoax about what they've done.

[random chance]

1 hour ago, stormy said:

Is the hair getting brassier? The yellow color is like an old doll.

I agree, it's much brassier, and I think it's getting thinner too. I've never been able to figure out the mechanics of it - does he swoop it from the back of his head to the front and then back again, and then spray it down? Or is it gathered from the back to the front, then back-combed, and turned under in the front? It doesn't look like a side comb-over, anyway. (Maybe there isn't enough on the side to comb over. I can see where he tries to weld the longer orange hair to his bald spots using mousse or gel or something.) I wonder if he uses peroxide or Clairol or Sun-In. Personally I'd bet on Sun-In.

[Padma]

1 minute ago, random chance said:

I agree, it's much brassier, and I think it's getting thinner too. I've never been able to figure out the mechanics of it - does he swoop it from the back of his head to the front and then back again, and then spray it down? Or is it gathered from the back to the front, then back-combed, and turned under in the front? It doesn't look like a side comb-over, anyway. (Maybe there isn't enough on the side to comb over. I can see where he tries to weld the longer orange hair to his bald spots using mousse or gel or something.) I wonder if he uses peroxide or Clairol or Sun-In. Personally I'd bet on Sun-In.

He has hair plugs in the front that he's grown really long, per the Kimmel appearance. (They also were the origins of Ivana's rape allegations in the divorce deposition--he got angry at how much they hurt and took it out on her, since she'd recommended the doctor.)

Speaking of doctors... he'll have a real one now, right? And a real physical with real results (inc. weight!) that Americans will get to hear!  I don't think Trump is at all prepared for the amount of truth that will be able to seep out from his bubble.

[MulletorHater]

8 minutes ago, Padma said:

The California professor's death threats were/are very real, including posting photos of her home and driver's license information.  And WaPost's David Fahrenthold wrote about having the FBI agent come to his home after getting threatened. She told him and his wife that "Your car is parked too far from the house.  They probably won't put a car bomb in it, though, but they might cut the brakes."

Some may be idle threats, but some of those people are so imbalanced that having them track your personal information--including home address--and send death threats to your family would unnerve and frighten anyone. (And let's not forget Trump's own "Second Amendment solution")

We are taking these threats quite seriously.  Just ask Chuck Todd, as well as other journalists who have received death threats in their respective newsrooms and at their homes.  Why?  For simply doing their jobs and scrutinizing the Nectarine Nightmare the way Hillary has been scrutinized for 30+years.

No amount of attempted gaslighting by people who need to feel comfortable with the decision they chose to make on November 8 will lessen the concerns people have for their and their families' safety.  It's downright frightening when nut jobs can locate people at their homes and even threaten to harm their children, even stating what schools the children attend.  Nor, will some of us forget how Drumpf whipped up his more rabid base to show up at polling places in "certain neighborhoods...you know what I mean" to "monitor" voters who had a little too much melanin.  And, damn if some of their knuckle dragging asses didn't do just that.

Don't even get me started on those who chose to believe fake stories about a child sex ring running out of a popular pizza restaurant in D.C.--one of whom took it so seriously that he showed up with shotguns to "investigate" for himself.

[KerleyQ]

16 minutes ago, random chance said:

I agree, it's much brassier, and I think it's getting thinner too. I've never been able to figure out the mechanics of it - does he swoop it from the back of his head to the front and then back again, and then spray it down? Or is it gathered from the back to the front, then back-combed, and turned under in the front? It doesn't look like a side comb-over, anyway. (Maybe there isn't enough on the side to comb over. I can see where he tries to weld the longer orange hair to his bald spots using mousse or gel or something.) I wonder if he uses peroxide or Clairol or Sun-In. Personally I'd bet on Sun-In.

Sun-In for his hair, and some circa early 80's QT self tanner on his skin. 

[backformore]

So Trump says he will talk to the intelligence people some time next week.   My first reaction was "where's your sense of urgency?"   then I realized, Trump will need to first meet with his Russia contacts to figure out  be told how to respond/explain/defend/distract from  the issue.

On the Rachel Maddow show, they replayed the clip from the debate where Trump denied Russia hacking the DNC, saying "nobody knows if it was Russia, it could be CHINA! .......it could be someone sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds."  Then in another debate, saying  "they like to say it was the Russians, she doesn't know if its the Russians"   NOw, after winning the election, he continues  to say there was no Russian interference, saying  a version of the same thing - you can't catch hackers, you cant know if it's Russia, or CHina, or somebody sitting on their bed.   Same words,  deflecting, trying to move the focus away from Russia. 

He KNOWS!  he's like a child,   "You don't know that I broke it, it could be my brother, it could be my dog, maybe the neighbor came in and did it.  If you didn't see me, you can't know for sure."

[film noire]

7 minutes ago, stewedsquash said:

LOL, speaking of monitoring the polling sites:

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/12/08/crazy-town-jill-stein-thinks-people-with-floppy-disks-hacked-election-machines-n2256713

This is from weeks ago (December 8th) about Stein/recounts -- what does that have to do with this thread? 

Edited December 30, 2016 by film noire

[MulletorHater]

3 minutes ago, backformore said:

So Trump says he will talk to the intelligence people some time next week.   My first reaction was "where's your sense of urgency?"   then I realized, Trump will need to first meet with his Russia contacts to figure out  be told how to respond/explain/defend/distract from  the issue.

On the Rachel Maddow show, they replayed the clip from the debate where Trump denied Russia hacking the DNC, saying "nobody knows if it was Russia, it could be CHINA! .......it could be someone sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds."  Then in another debate, saying  "they like to say it was the Russians, she doesn't know if its the Russians"   NOw, after winning the election, he continues  to say there was no Russian interference, saying  a version of the same thing - you can't catch hackers, you cant know if it's Russia, or CHina, or somebody sitting on their bed.   Same words,  deflecting, trying to move the focus away from Russia. 

He KNOWS!  he's like a child,   "You don't know that I broke it, it could be my brother, it could be my dog, maybe the neighbor came in and did it.  If you didn't see me, you can't know for sure."

Now, just imagine if this had happened in 2008 where a foreign power did this on behalf of Senator Obama.  Even if it was shown that Obama had won fair and square and there were other factors at play, the GOP and McCain's supporters would have been howling at the moon, demanding a recount, demanding a do-over of the election and would have incited an armed insurrection.  Plus, they would have found a way to delay the inauguration until they were satisfied--which would have been NEVER--that Obama's win had nothing to do with the interference of a foreign power.

I find it beyond disgusting that the same bunch who derided Obama as "un-American," a "Muslim sympathizer," not having American values, etc.,  have sat on their hands with regard to this mess.  One jackass even suggested that the Russian hackers only did what the media should have done.  Okay, I'll bite.  With that logic then, should the hackers start leaking emails from the RNC, Drumpf and other GOP notables?  Does that mean then that we should be regaled every day by corporate media with the latest RNC, Drumpf and GOP leaks?  I wait with bated breath to find out.

[random chance]

37 minutes ago, Padma said:

He has hair plugs in the front that he's grown really long, per the Kimmel appearance. (They also were the origins of Ivana's rape allegations in the divorce deposition--he got angry at how much they hurt and took it out on her, since she'd recommended the doctor.)

Speaking of doctors... he'll have a real one now, right? And a real physical with real results (inc. weight!) that Americans will get to hear!  I don't think Trump is at all prepared for the amount of truth that will be able to seep out from his bubble.

So he combs it back over what I presume is a typical bald spot, then forward again? I wonder why he didn't just get plugs in the back while he was at it. The pain? He must have a really low threshold.

Oh wow will he be required to disclose the results of his physical once he's in office? Or is that voluntary? I will laugh so hard if he's forced to disclose them, but it seems too good to be true.