S03.E05: Mad City: Anything for You

[formerlyfreedom]

Crime in Gotham is at an all-time high, as Penguin struggles to uphold his promises to the city. Meanwhile, Butch goes down a dark path with the infamous Red Hood Gang and Bruce begins to investigate Ivy's whereabouts.

 

[Primetimer]

Things are happening in the new season. Perhaps too many things?

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[Lantern7]

The loud bang you just heard? That was gaydar exploding from coast to coast. Holy crap, Clark and Lex only wished they were as chummy as Oswald and Ed.

Bruce & Selina are now a thing? Yeah, that's gonna last a long time. It'll provide Selina a distraction from her red-haired friend's disappearance and the red-haired stranger giving her grief. Also, I can't wait to see Alfred's reaction to the news.

Prognosis doesn't look for Barnes, even as he's ditching the crutch. How many bazookas will it take to bring him down?

Hi, Jervis! Bye, Jervis! And I should make my peace with Val before next week.

[Chaos Theory]

Was the Nygma/Penguin/Butch love triangle thing supposed to be so overt because twice there I was sure Nygma and Penguin were gonna kiss.  I would have been fine with that.

Of course Bruce misses the old days.  If you had to chose between fake smiles and mingling and skulking in dark corners and brooding of course you'd chose the latter.  Although like Babs said best party ever.  Why do I always miss the good parties?  

Hey is it possible for new Ivy to adopt Selena because that would be awesome on so many levels. 

Still don't care about Jim's love life or anything really about Jim.

Is Captain Barnes turning into a named villian of some sort?  Really loved Lee's punch of Nygma.  Plus her threatening him after.  Good for her.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[HoodlumSheep]

Best episode of the season so far in my opinion!

• The triple/quadruple backstabbing this episode was awesome
• Butch DIDN't die and I am super happy because he is my second favorite character after Harvey!
• that poor Mama Cobblepot statue! It didn't deserve such a cruel fate!
• Zsasz and the Zsaszettes, baby! So good to see him again!
• 4 for you, Lee! That was an awesome punch!
• Bruce is so tall now! Taller than Jim! I liked their bar talk!
• Baby Bat's confused! The BatCat scene was cute!
• i like how Jim and Lee are handling things like proper adults!
• slightly more chemistry between Jim and Valerie in the restaurant scene. I'm still not quite on board with those two being a thing (mainly because the chemistry is a little scarce)
• Butch is the MVP of the episode for me.
• I love how Tabby takes care of Butch!
• I like Captain Barnes a lot more when he's not yelling all the time, so I enjoyed him this episode!
• that ending was crazy! The Hatter's officially gone Mad!

I'm sorry to say this, but I'm beginning to get annoyed with all the Nygma stuff. I'd say it's due to over exposure, but I'm not annoyed with Oswald yet, so??? I don't know. Ed was never one of my favorite characters, although I loved him in the back half of season 2?

I can't explain it. *shrugs*

[NorthstarATL]

Riddle me this: When is a kiss not a kiss? REALLY thought Oswald was going in for full tongue there at the end! I still love Barbara's reactions to everything. On a semi-serious note, it's nice to see that Edward really is probably second only to Adult Bats in detecting.

[Spartan Girl]

I really thought Nygma and Penguin were going to start making out in that last scene. I wonder if the show will actually go that way...

If Hatter wants to try to kill Lee (and/or Valerie) next week, good. Let him. Because I am so over Lee. Between punching Nygma "for Kristen" but NOT for framing Jim, and her passive-aggressive poutiness that Jim isn't more upset about her marrying into the Falcones, I am *this close* to putting her in the Worst TV Love Interest thread. It breaks my heart because I used to love her, but enough is enough. Lee, YOU MADE YOUR CHOICE. Either stick with it or STFU.

[Danielg342]

Last week was a winner. This week was a bore.

This time, it's pacing. Not because it was too slow, but because it was too fast. So many things happened it was hard to keep up.

What I will say is that it was absolutely lovely to see the relationship between Oswald and Edward grow. Wow. Can't say I have ever shipped two guys before, but by Jove were the sparks flying everywhere. I sure thought they were going to kiss at the end. I sure hope Robin Lord Taylor and Cory Michael Smith are down for the lip-locking, because Penguin and The Riddler could be quite the relationship.

(Part of me wonders why those two couldn't have been the focal point of the show...they're far more interesting than Jim Gordon ever will be).

Then there's Bruce and Selina...not much I'll say about those two except that Selina knows seduction and romance far better than Bruce does. Love is a game...sometimes it's just not wise to play all of your cards.

(Should've realize that getting romance advice from Gordon is a bad idea)

Oh...and Barnes suddenly doesn't need his walker...and he looks like he's starting to channel his inner strength. Killer Croc?

The Bullock Meter- 1

I was going to say, "man, I can't believe Donal Logue wasn't in this episode" before recalling that, yeah he was in the episode, at the very beginning. The bit with Nygma was nice, but Bullock declaring he wanted to speed up the investigation of the Red Hoods just so he could drink seemed uncharacteristic. Yeah, Bullock drinks, but he's also not the type to skimp on his work. Other than that- did we ever really notice Bullock in this episode?

Episode Grade: C. So much happened, but so little of it stuck.

[Philbert]

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Best episode of the season so far in my opinion!

I second that. I really enjoyed this one. Loved Ed's crime scene investigator training kicking in as he worked to solve the mystery of the "New Red Hood Gang." It's also interesting to note how good Bruce is getting at observing little details. Really enjoyed the baby cat/baby bat relationship this episode. Another plus was the wackiness that is the Butch/Tabitha/Barbara relationship, in addition to the (what others have pointed out) The Ed/Oswald/Butch triangle. Not enough Harvey of course but that's pretty much par for the course these days. I thought Lee smacking Ed in the face for Kristin was a very nice little moment. What Ed did to her (intentional or not) was horrendous and everybody should be sickened that he got out this easily. Oh and how cool was it to see ole Victor again. I've missed that maniac.

Really solid episode IMHO and I'm looking forward to see what they do with the "Mad Hatter."

Edited October 18, 2016 by Philbert

[immortalfrieza]

44 minutes ago, HoodlumSheep said:

 

• slightly more chemistry between Jim and Valerie in the restaurant scene. I'm still not quite on board with those two being a thing (mainly because the chemistry is a little scarce)

 

46 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

If Hatter wants to try to kill Lee (and/or Valerie) next week, good. Let him. Because I am so over Lee. Between punching Nygma "for Kristen" but NOT for framing Jim, and her passive-aggressive poutiness that Jim isn't more upset about her marrying into the Falcones, I am *this close* to putting her in the Worst TV Love Interest thread. It breaks my heart because I used to love her, but enough is enough. Lee, YOU MADE YOUR CHOICE. Either stick with it or STFU.

Honestly? I find Valerie to be a better love interest than Lee or Barbara ever were. Valerie seems like the kind of girl who could actually take care of herself instead of just moving from one hostage situation to the next, and perhaps more importantly she seems like somebody Gordon would actually get along with. Valerie's plucky reporter would probably mesh really well with Gordon's reckless cop/bounty hunter lifestyle.

Quote

I like Captain Barnes a lot more when he's not yelling all the time, so I enjoyed him this episode!

It's weird how this Wonderland disease is actually making Barnes SANER in this episode instead of more crazy. Characters are always much better when they have some subtlety and Barnes hasn't had any until this episode.

Quote

I'm sorry to say this, but I'm beginning to get annoyed with all the Nygma stuff. I'd say it's due to over exposure, but I'm not annoyed with Oswald yet, so??? I don't know. Ed was never one of my favorite characters, although I loved him in the back half of season 2?

Writers always do that, they take minor recurring characters that the audience loves and then all but drown the work in those characters, failing to recognize that the fact that those character only appeared every so often and had only a bit of screentime when they did is what made those characters work in the first place.

[Kathemy]

Only ten minutes in and this episode is already fantastic.

[Kathemy]

Alright, so that was awesome. Best crafted episode of Gotham yet, with a few minor pacing hickups. The ensemble is back together, Nygma is back in the halls of the GCPD, Bruce actually manages to make Jim interesting and sympathetic and they're totally rocking it.

[Artsda]

I loved this episode, all the twists and the party. It was great.

For someone who was so against the danger Jim always was in Lee sure doesn't have an issue throwing the name Falcone around now. She's become a mob wife over night.

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, it was actually kind of surprising that Oswald and Nygma didn't start making out.  Because the way it was shot, build-up, and acted, it felt like it was leading up to a kiss of all things.  To the point that I almost wonder if TPTB actually considered it, but backed out at the last minute (or an overlord from FOX or DC was like "Oh, hell no!")  Either way, their relationship has gotten even crazier, although I do get the sense that Oswald is a bit more invested in it, then Nygma.

I knew Butch was being set-up, but at least Tabitha broke him out at the end.

Hey, Zssaz!  Great to see you again, you big psycho!

Gordon and Bruce together again was nice; I do like how they play off one another.  And they both led to them finally opening up to their current respected love interests, which is nice.  Although, when Bruce said he never had a girlfriend, I did remember that he more or less did "date" Theo Galvan's niece.  Granted, it ended up being all part of a con, but I guess that kind of counts?  Maybe?  I don't know!

Older, Sexy Ivy returns, and is already having fun at Selina's expense.  I can't wait to see what Selina's reaction will be once she finds out.

Lee punching out Nygma was great.  Don't even mind her name-dropping the Falcone name to make him feel even more helpless.

Yep, The Mad Hatter is still as crazy as ever!

Barnes is getting more powerful, and Michael Chiklis is equally better because of it.

Still hope Bullock gets more to do at some point or another.

Not sure I'm looking forward to next week, and the cliched "Val and Lee are captured, and Jim has to pick who lives and who dies!" scenario.

[Kathemy]

Edward isn't helpless. If the show remembers its history correctly, Leslie just made a colossal blunder. Carmine Falcone left Gotham City because he was forced out by the criminal underground as Oswald took control of Gotham City. When he saved Jim Gordon's ass in "Prisoners" that came as a result of "calling in some old favors." Carmine is at least semi-retired and Penguin and Riddler are realistically far more powerful. Lee may have shortened her life expectancy by a few decades.

We'll see how it plays out but my feeling is simply that Lee acted on impulse and followed up with some really ill-advised threats.

[darkestboy]

Bit of a twisty episode. Both Butch and Nygma resorted to backstabbing and secret plans to impress Oswald but in the end, it was Nygma who came out on top.

They seem to be upping the slash content a little between Oswald and Nygma but I don't actually think the show would contemplate going there to be honest.

Red Hood Gang were used well enough second time around and I liked seeing Zsasz back and the chaos taking place in the nightclub.

Tabitha going to rescue Butch was oddly sweet though and Barnes is starting to get a little interesting-ish.

Loved Leslie and Lucius putting Nygma in his place and there was some great scenes with Bruce/Selina, Bruce/Gordon and Selina/Ivy as well, 8/10.

[Kathemy]

I'm prepared to eat crow over it but I honestly feel that yes, the show will go there, in some fashion or other.

[HoodlumSheep]

I forgot to mention in my original post that Lucius is a treasure. The way he mentioned lacing the science equipment was awesome. Sadly he didn't actually do it. 

I'm still mulling over Nygma. Besides a bit of overexposure, I think the other main problem I'm having with him is that he needs to get knocked down a peg or two. His constant winning is throwing of the balance (or at least my balance). The other characters have had a lot more ups and downs concerning stuff compared to him, at least. Not gonna lie, I was kind of hoping Butch could knock him down a bit.

But I imagine he'll be knocked down a bit later at some point. Hopefully. 

And I'm not trying to hate on Nygma or anything, like I said earlier, he was fantastic near the end of season 2. I just think his character is wearing on me a little bit.

Edited October 18, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[Winter Rose]

Count me in as having thought Ed/Oswald were about to make out. Although I can actually take or leave their bromance. I guess it just feels like: two characters popular in their own right, must combine it and double the popularity. Personally I look forward to the day they go and each do their own thing.

I was really hoping Barbara and Victor would interact just to see what it would be like now, considering how Barbara was before.

All the crossing/double crossing/etc., I could never survive in a world like that. But I'm glad Butch is still alive and that Tabitha went after him. I really enjoyed their scenes together.

And I still don't care about Jim's love life. I did enjoy his talk with Bruce but I'm not buying his relationship with Valerie. I never thought it was UST that they had, or at least not right away, I thought he was genuinely annoyed with her that it's felt like too quick of a turnaround. Next week, I don't care if it's Valerie or Lee that has to die but truth be told, I think it'll be a letdown if Jim finds a way to save both.

[Danielg342]

2 hours ago, Winter Rose said:

 Next week, I don't care if it's Valerie or Lee that has to die but truth be told, I think it'll be a letdown if Jim finds a way to save both.

Nominally I'd agree, but I fear it's a moot point considering both are regulars.

[Gulftastic]

That was the most blatant queer-baiting since Mulan saved Aurora's heart on Once Upon A Time, and I loved it!

This season is hitting all the right notes for me. Baby Bat and Cat romance is almost as sweet as Penguin/Nygma. David Mazouz is sprouting up. He is starting to look like he will make a very convincing Batman. I hope the show runs long enough.

The show has upped the darkness and the wackiness this year. I approve.

[paigow]

Ed: Oswald, I have to go away for a while...Falcone is trying to kill me...

Oswald:  [sobbing] When are you coming back???

Ed: Hard to say, maybe never

Oswald: Why can't I quit you???

[Snookums]

Nobody's mentioned Mama Cobblepot's rendition in stone yet???? 

Oswald: What do you think *indicating horror show that is statue*

My Husband: She's a stone fox!

Ed: She's a fine figure of a woman.

Me: Eh, yours was better, honey.

Can I mention how great it is that the denizens of Gotham are clearly so shell-shocked/corrupt/numb that they are totally down with the extra-judicial proceedings that involve wholesale gunnings-down of criminals? Penguin ran on this whole "make Gotham safe, Law and Order" thing, clearly nothing has changed a whit and they're all "Yay! We're sure you have a plan! Nobody even mentions calling the police and at this point who can blame us!" To be fair though, tracing the switchback road that was the multiple backstabbing at the party probably left them pretty dazed. Babs enjoying the whole thing in her Circus Lady Dress Version 2 was also fun. 

Good for Bruce, and for Selina realizing that for this to work she's basically going to have to lead him around by the nose. She likes him but for all her experienced persona she clearly feels vulnerable because of it.  (But not as vulnerable as the partygoers! Why the HELL was she in there? A) her picture should be up at every bar, club, betting parlor and restaurant in town by now and B) BARBARA KNOWS HER. Hell, she had her and young Ivy in her apartment and gave them makeovers! C'mon, writers!)

I am still completely *meh* on Jim Gordon, the dummy's, love life. Mostly because I have a hard time buying the chemistry that the showrunners keep forcing onto his character. He never seems to even know his bevy of exes/currents, and they keep popping personas on and off of him like he's a paper doll. He never gets a chance to actually be anything, he just reacts to whatever's put in front of him.

 However, him telling Lee "for the eleventh time I'm happy for you and quit rubbing your moving on and mob fiance in my face please" was TOTALLY justified and I am behind him 100%. I don't know what's up with her but she's being written like a tenth grader trying to make her ex jealous and it's unbecoming. And if she's magically back to being a the pathologist is Lucius out of a job or what? 

And of course the Red Dwarf Level Tease that was Ed and Penguin! It was clearly done on purpose as a wink, but would they really go there? That would be interesting because:

A) Ed may be bi, but he did have a relationship with Kristen that he ardently pursued and desired, so this seems to be new for him, and 

B) Penguin, to all appearances, is a virgin with a horribly intimate attachment to his crazy dead molesting mother and no real indications that he's ever been sexually attracted to anybody. So I can't see these two having any kind of healthy, supportive relationship.

[paigow]

4 hours ago, Snookums said:

 So I can't see these two having any kind of healthy, supportive relationship...

These words are not in the Gotham dictionary.......

[Sakura12]

Lee's the medical examiner, Lucius is forensics. Just like Ngyma was forensics when Lee worked there as the ME. 

As for Cat being at Barbara's place, I don't think Barbara cares what she does. The other places I don't have an answer for, I guess they are too dumb to realize they are being robbed. The one place that caught her is probably not going to run around telling people they got beat up by a two kids. 

[Chaos Theory]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

Lee's the medical examiner, Lucius is forensics. Just like Ngyma was forensics when Lee worked there as the ME. 

As for Cat being at Barbara's place, I don't think Barbara cares what she does. The other places I don't have an answer for, I guess they are too dumb to realize they are being robbed. The one place that caught her is probably not going to run around telling people they got beat up by a two kids. 

My guess is Babs would just ask for her cut.

[Perfect Xero]

So, the Captain is turning into Solomon Grundy?

 

On 10/18/2016 at 3:41 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Not sure I'm looking forward to next week, and the cliched "Val and Lee are captured, and Jim has to pick who lives and who dies!" scenario.

Part of me hopes that the new cold, bitter, alcoholic Jim just makes a quick decision and then sticks with it.

"I present you with an impossible choice, Mr. Gordon. Who will you save, Lee or --"

"I'll save Val. Sorry, Lee, but you know how it is. Are we done here, Jerv? I've got booze to drink and bounties to collect, and I think I'm still trying to find that missing Ivy girl or something."

[Lantern7]

19 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

So, the Captain is turning into Solomon Grundy?

Did not consider that. I can hear Chiklis delivering the "Solomon Grundy, born on a Monday" line in his annoyed Barnes voice.

[Kathemy]

Doux Reviews: Anything For You

It took a while to review it because it was so amazing.

[Lokiberry]

3 hours ago, Kathemy said:

Doux Reviews: Anything For You

It took a while to review it because it was so amazing.

Great review. I agree, this was one of the best episodes of the series. It didn't get bogged down with Jim Gordon's wangst, but made use of the entire cast and their convoluted relationships. The stand out was Ed. Every scene, every character he interacted with, was gold. I spent the episode wondering whether it was Butch or Oswald he was double and triple crossing, and was delighted by the resolution.

This show can be so good when it doesn't over focus on Gordon. The supporting characters are just so compelling. I'd gladly watch a show about Penguin/Nygma/Babs/Tabitha/Butch. Throw in some Zsasz and the Zsaszettes and I'd be in heaven.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Lokiberry

[paigow]

What is the TV age difference between Bruce & Gordon? All the main bad guys must be at least 15 years older than Bruce. Unless Bruce gets the Poison Ivy miracle aging touch, this will end up like Adam West 2.0 where Penguin seemed to be only a few years younger than Alfred.

[Kathemy]

The actor portraying Jerome is only 8 years older than Bruce and they could easily sell him being only around 5 years older.

[Sakura12]

They don't have to go by the actors ages, they can say that the Riddler and Penguin are late 20's/early 30's. Then if Bruce becomes Batman in about 10 years or so they won't be so old they can't still be villains. Plus the Riddler and Penguin were never known for their fighting skills. That's what their minions are for. They are supposed to be the brains or the boss. 

If Jerome is the Joker, I think he was supposed to be around 18/19 making him only 2-3 years older than Bruce. 

[Perfect Xero]

I like to imagine that Gotham is less of a Batman origin story and more of a story where the timeline got screwed up somehow (Damn, you Barry Allen!) and Bruce/Batman and honest cop Jim Gordon somehow came along a decade later than they were supposed to. This is why Gordon is a contemporary of Bullock and Montoya instead of their mentor and he's being dragged through the mud and constantly befriending and working with criminals instead of being the one truly clean cop in Gotham.

And this is why all of the criminals who normally don't show up until Bruce is Batman are already running around and terrorizing a young Bruce who is not yet old/strong enough to kick their asses.

[scarynikki12]

Heh, Barry is the worst. So much so that he's screwing things up on other networks. 

[Lokiberry]

5 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Heh, Barry is the worst. So much so that he's screwing things up on other networks. 

Heh, it's funny because it's true.

[Lazlo]

That was a fun episode. I loved seeing the puppy (kitten?) love between Bruce and Selina. Poor kids, they'll be dancing that way for over a decade if the comics are any indication.

I'm not sure what is going on with Ed and Oswald. My gaydar is non existent so if I thought that was ridiculously overt sexual tension I've no idea what someone who can actually read subtext would think. I know DC Comics has reconnected several characters into being bisexual recently (Catwoman, Wonder Woman and Black Canary if I recall correctly) but I don't think they've done it with male characters, so I don't know if the romance is going to turn overt or not.

I still don't quite understand where Barbara suddenly got all her brains from. In Season One 'sane' Barbara was an idiot (we even had a scene where Selina mocks her to her face about her supposed manipulative qualities) and crazy Barbara was more crazy than smart. When did Babs become an ace sleuth who can instantly see through lies and figures out what Butch was doing long before Penguin even comes close?

[festivus]

Poor Butch. I love Butch! At least Tabitha went to his aid in the end. I was rooting for him to take them all down and run that city.

 

Oswald and Ed. Even my husband who never sees HoYay!, thought they were going to kiss.  I could see them going there because when one of them inevitably betrays the other, Drama!. Of course that would work with friendship too, but I think Penguin is more invested in that than Nygma.

 

Loved Barbara's reactions at the party.

[Chaos Theory]

1 hour ago, Lazlo said:

I still don't quite understand where Barbara suddenly got all her brains from. In Season One 'sane' Barbara was an idiot (we even had a scene where Selina mocks her to her face about her supposed manipulative qualities) and crazy Barbara was more crazy than smart. When did Babs become an ace sleuth who can instantly see through lies and figures out what Butch was doing long before Penguin even comes close?
 

See this is where I disagree.  Sane Barbara wasn't stupid.  Barbara was always obsessed with being loved and needed.  One of her biggest gripes against Jim was that he treated her like some breakable doll that needed to be protected and hidden from his life and job which isn't far from the truth,. She did obsessive and stupid things that backfired on her to prove she could handle being Jim's "partner" then she gets her assed kidnapped by a psychopath who figures out that the root of her issues are her parents and well.  Anyway  Barbara was always obsessed with Jim it just played out differently when she was "sane".

[Lazlo]

Just now, Chaos Theory said:

See this is where I disagree.  Sane Barbara wasn't stupid.  Barbara was always obsessed with being loved and needed.  One of her biggest gripes against Jim was that he treated her like some breakable doll that needed to be protected and hidden from his life and job which isn't far from the truth,. She did obsessive and stupid things that backfired on her to prove she could handle being Jim's "partner" then she gets her assed kidnapped by a psychopath who figures out that the root of her issues are her parents and well.  Anyway  Barbara was always obsessed with Jim it just played out differently when she was "sane".

I'm not sure how consistently doing stupid things is functionally different from simply being stupid. Indeed, as I noted before, the show deliberately drew attention to Barbara's lack of smarts - we, the audience, are clearly meant to agree with Selina's mocking of Barbara as essentially a loser and that her vision of herself as a street smart femme fatale is fantasy (in case it needs reminding at this point in the show Babs is more or less having her life run by two street girls less than half her age.)

Even with that said though the difference is not even that Barbara has become smarter than she was, it is that she has become smart. Figuring out Butch's plan on a dime wasn't due to her own particular neuroses. She simply randomly became a genius. 

[Chaos Theory]

But she has also been sheltered less.  New Barbara is a lot closer to Selina in nature  then she was when Selina mocked her back in season 1.  She has done some legitimate living and some bad shit so leaps in logic are not too far outside the realm of possibility.

[Lazlo]

3 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

But she has also been sheltered less.  New Barbara is a lot closer to Selina in nature  then she was when Selina mocked her back in season 1.  She has done some legitimate living and some bad shit so leaps in logic are not too far outside the realm of possibility.

I can accept that and she should be a bit more savvy compared to her earlier self, an admittedly not hard target to reach. But it just seems a bit too much, especially as the show seems to be selling as her the brains of the pair between her and Tabitha, despite being crazy. It really does seem like she went through a substantial offscreen leap in IQ somewhere along the way.

[Perfect Xero]

Am I missing something? Tabitha found and captured the guy who bought the grenades the Red Hoods used and then they tortured the information out of him. It wasn't like they made a sudden deduction and most of it seems to have been orchestrated by Tabitha. Barbara's big contribution was being crazy enough to pull the pin on a live grenade to get Butch to talk to them.

[Last Time Lord]

Nygmapott is the greatest will they or won't they currently on TV, and I totally ship them.

[VCRTracking]

Jeez, at this point it would be weird if Ed and Oswald didn't end up kissing! That final scene I thought "Whoa, is this actually going to happen?"
 

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If Hatter wants to try to kill Lee (and/or Valerie) next week, good. Let him. Because I am so over Lee. Between punching Nygma "for Kristen" but NOT for framing Jim,

 

I think it was just to remind people that Ed did kill Kristen. If she punched him for framing Jim, people would be like "What about Kristen?"

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It breaks my heart because I used to love her, but enough is enough. Lee, YOU MADE YOUR CHOICE. Either stick with it or STFU.

I still have hope that she's going grow to be the Leslie Thompkins of the comics, but since so far the show has ruined or wasted great characters like Renee Montoya, Sarah Essen and Silver St. Cloud I doubt it. Having Poison Ivy be an aged up 14 year old is also weird. They say her mind is also mature so her being with older men isn't creepy and I'm like *rolling eyes*

[Miss Dee]

Holy crap, was this episode written by Denise The?! She wrote some of the best episodes of Person of Interest, which was the best sci-fi show on network TV (and possibly the best show period) for the five years it existed, and it just kept getting better every season. No wonder this episode rocked!

She also wrote some of the darkest episodes of what was a pretty dark and apocalyptic show, so she's going to fit right in here. Gotham is damned lucky to have her, and so are we.

I'm in this for the Mazouz - the closer he gets to an age appropriate for some serious Batmanning, and the more he starts to look the part, the more excited I get for the future - so naturally I loved this episode. However, for once I thought all the other elements of the show worked too.

What existed between Penguin and Ed wasn't HoYay! at all. There was nothing subtextual about what I just saw. That was full-blown path-to-romance storytelling there. And for the record, I like the sound of "Nygmobblepot."

[Kathemy]

Yes, I noticed Thé wrote it. I was going to mention it in my review but then I forgot.

[Kathemy]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I am confused.  When Lee left Gotham, wasn't she pregnant?  What happened to the baby?

I am glad that Nygma and Cobblepot didn't make out.  I was expecting it to happen, but I am glad it didn't happen, because I think it would have spun this show in a direction that the writers' couldn't recover from.  At some point those two have to turn on each other, and a lover's quarrel would have been too cliche.

She told Harvey she had a miscarriage and he told Jim in 'Prisoners.'

The show couldn't "recover" from making Edward and Oswald lovers but it could recover from magically transforming Ivy from a fifteen-year-old to a 28-year-old sexpot just to bring on the boobs? Stop being silly. Even if they'll turn on each other there is no reason that would have to be based on a "lovers' quarrel." That would come from Eddie's ambition outgrowing his role as Ozzie's underling.

[Gulftastic]

Eddie's ambition is a strange one. It seems to me that all he really wants is for everyone to acknowledge he is the smartest man in the world. Beyond that, he doesn't seem to lust for power like Penguin does.

[Kathemy]

10 minutes ago, Gulftastic said:

Eddie's ambition is a strange one. It seems to me that all he really wants is for everyone to acknowledge he is the smartest man in the world. Beyond that, he doesn't seem to lust for power like Penguin does.

That's true too. Not to say those motivations couldn't change, though.