S02.E04: Brother's Keeper

[WendyCR72]

Quote

 

Several patients are discovered to have the same rare infection, prompting Dr. Charles' daughter Robyn, an epidemiologist, to be brought in to find the common link. Dr. Choi and Dr. Rhodes work on an elderly man who is discovered to be very ill, but a conflict in how to best treat him develops between his son and his young girlfriend. Meanwhile, Dr. Reese tries to help a young drug addict, and Maggie tends to a patient who is dear to her heart.

 

(Just a bit of useless trivia: This is the third Dick Wolf show to use this episode title, the other two being Law & Order and Law & Order: Criminal Intent. Showing I watch too many Dick Wolf shows!)

[statsgirl]

I missed the first half hour of the episode -- was there a reason Manning had to extubate the patient with the  low O2 stats for him to reply to her questions verbally instead of just asking him to write the answer down or blink his eyes 'yes' or 'no'?

Why are they making Connor such a douche about Latham?  Knowing Star Wars movies is cool.

Manning getting jealous of Halstead's relationship with Dr. Patty while sleeping with Jeff is pure fast forward material for me.

Edited October 14, 2016 by statsgirl
the right word matters

[Chas411]

It's like they're trying to make Manning and Halstead as unlikeable as possible when ur comes to this romance.

[starri]

Damn it, Maggie.

[Netfoot]

Dr. Charles is creepy.  Ghoulish creepy.  

[Lady Calypso]

7 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I missed the first half hour of the episode -- was there a reason Manning had to extube the patient with the  low O2 stats for him to reply to her questions verbally instead of just asking him to write the answer down or blink his eyes 'yes' or 'no'?

 

No, not at all. Unless I missed it too, because I usually tune out anything Manning and Halstead related. I think it was just to make her more like Dr. McDouche, so she's now Dr. McDouchette, but with less illegal activities. I have no care for these two making googly eyes at each other while dating other people. Dr. McDouchette is now making eyes at Dr. McDouche while being in a relationship with FireDoc. Not interested, show. I like FireDoc and I like Dr. Shore. 

That sex trafficking case was so sad. I, like Reese, just wanted to call the police and scoop that boy up to hide him away from his pimp. 

Well, I like Dr. Oddball now, but I can see how Connor might be turned off by it. He's probably not used to a doctor like that in the OR. I bet it'll just take some getting used to. 

Choi's case was...whatever, I guess. Maggie's case was sad. 

[starri]

Natalie, Halstead, and Dr. Charles the Younger were attempting to do contact tracing on the CRE cases in order to determine the source of the infection.  The reason they "had" to extubate him was because they needed to question him to find out where he'd been that was in common with the girl and the other case, which is a little more involved than just yes or no questions.  Whether this was necessary for any reason other than drama is debatable.

[izabella]

6 hours ago, Chas411 said:

It's like they're trying to make Manning and Halstead as unlikeable as possible when ur comes to this romance.

I'd rather they just put them together so I can fast forward through their romance drama, rather than having them get in relationships with other people only to end up hurting those people when they inevitably dump them or cheat on them.

[twoods]

I missed the latter part of last season because I lost interest, but why are Manning and Halstead not together? It's obvious they like each other. Is it for angsty "reasons"?

I like the pathologist so it's going to suck when he breaks her heart.

[statsgirl]

I think Manning told Halstead that she was still grieving her husband and wasn't ready for a new relationship and then as soon as FireDoc shows up, she jumps his bones.

I know they are never going to put Rhodes and the pathologist together but it would be more fun than the Halstead/Manning jealousy play.

5 hours ago, starri said:

Natalie, Halstead, and Dr. Charles the Younger were attempting to do contact tracing on the CRE cases in order to determine the source of the infection.  The reason they "had" to extubate him was because they needed to question him to find out where he'd been that was in common with the girl and the other case, which is a little more involved than just yes or no questions.  Whether this was necessary for any reason other than drama is debatable.

I wondered why he couldn't have written down his responses.  It seems extreme to extubate him if he's that sick when they could have got their answers more safely.  This show is usually better than that.

Manning saying "it's dangerous if we pull the tube out and we may never get it back again but we need to know" was just blech.

It seems to me that Chicago Med is a good show except when it comes to Halstead and Manning.

Edited October 14, 2016 by statsgirl

[starri]

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I wondered why he couldn't have written down his responses.  It seems extreme to extubate him if he's that sick when they could have got their answers more safely.  This show is usually better than that.

Honestly, they should have realized that both of them had endoscopies and were both immunosuppressed without needing to ask that many questions.  I try really hard to be forgiving of dramatic license (like, how neither of them got admitted to the ICU and that cultures can come back in an hour), but sometimes I want to gnash my teeth.

[DearEvette]

On 10/14/2016 at 9:27 AM, Lady Calypso said:

Well, I like Dr. Oddball now, but I can see how Connor might be turned off by it. He's probably not used to a doctor like that in the OR. I bet it'll just take some getting used to. 

Yeah, I was all WTF about him at first.  But each show has been adding some interesting layers with this character. 

I hate the whole Halstead/Manning thing.  Either get them  together or don't but the constant lingering looks are getting old.  I kinda wish they had out FireDoc with someone else.  But I have a soft spot for him because he was coach on the CW show Wildcats (cancelled too soon, you bastards!).

Seems like Dr. Charles and his daughter have tension.  Wonder what it stems from? We'll be seeing more of her I assume.

Maggie's case was sad.  But I am glad with the last couple of episodes they seem to be doing more with Maggie.  I felt she was underused last season as just Natalie's support system.

[MakeMeLaugh]

I thought this episode was a mess (and I'm not talking just about Dr Charles' lack of personal grooming <rim shot>). But seriously, shouldn't a doctor shoot a suspicion of criminal activity (sex trade--pimp getting hot guy addicted to heroin) right up to the legal higher ups or I don't know, just send their good friends Voight etc from PD out after the woman? Did the woman have power of attorney to be making the guy's medical decisions--was she really a relative (and did they verify that once the suspicions started)? That was a terrible resolution to that story line, the "oh well" shrugging as the poor guy was driven away. I hate seeing Reese's youthful idealism squelched especially if they could have made a difference. Now go take a shower, Dr Charles.

[wonderwoman]

30 minutes ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

I thought this episode was a mess (and I'm not talking just about Dr Charles' lack of personal grooming <rim shot>)...Now go take a shower, Dr Charles.

Yes! And wash your lab coat. I've never been able to figure out if the shrinks at Chicago Med wear a different colored lab coat or if we're supposed to think that being a slop is party of Charles' quirky appeal. Much as I love Oliver Platt (he and S Epatha {not enough her} were big draws for me), looking at the dingy grey lab coat every episode makes me a little nauseous.  

[Fostersmom]

This episode just seemed off somehow. I've hated Halstead since episode one, but the more of the godawful Halstead/Manning relationship I see, the closer Manning is getting to hated category too. And what the hell was up with Dr. Choi claiming the patient said to save him when he obviously didn't? Don't make me hate Choi too. 

[Netfoot]

8 hours ago, wonderwoman said:

Much as I love Oliver Platt (he and S Epatha {not enough her} were big draws for me), looking at the dingy grey lab coat every episode makes me a little nauseous

I hate the guy.  He seems to lurk just around every corner, waiting top pop up and say "Need a psych consult?" with boring regularity.  "Dr. Charles, just fuck off!  For your information, everybody isn't nutzo!"  Although, of course, this is Chicago, right?

[Ailianna]

On 10/14/2016 at 2:55 PM, starri said:

Honestly, they should have realized that both of them had endoscopies and were both immunosuppressed without needing to ask that many questions.  I try really hard to be forgiving of dramatic license (like, how neither of them got admitted to the ICU and that cultures can come back in an hour), but sometimes I want to gnash my teeth.

Except that he didn't have an endoscopy--his roommate did.  And that's not something that reviewing his medical records would find; he had to give them the roommate's name and info for them to make the connection.  I do think he could have written things out, once he was brought out of the medical coma for the conversation, but it was nice to see someone being so quietly noble and thinking of others before himself.  He was a really good person.

3 hours ago, Fostersmom said:

This episode just seemed off somehow. I've hated Halstead since episode one, but the more of the godawful Halstead/Manning relationship I see, the closer Manning is getting to hated category too. And what the hell was up with Dr. Choi claiming the patient said to save him when he obviously didn't? Don't make me hate Choi too. 

It wasn't clear that the patient never said anything, and it was somewhat deliberate. We are led initially to believe Choi made it up, but then the patient's obvious enjoyment of life makes it possible he did say it during the choked words he garbled out in the moment.  But then Choi is still concerned that he saved him just to be a gravy-train...  It was not the most compelling storyline.

[starri]

9 hours ago, Ailianna said:

Except that he didn't have an endoscopy--his roommate did.  And that's not something that reviewing his medical records would find; he had to give them the roommate's name and info for them to make the connection.  I do think he could have written things out, once he was brought out of the medical coma for the conversation, but it was nice to see someone being so quietly noble and thinking of others before himself.  He was a really good person.

I missed that it was the roommate.  I don't know, the whole story was just a bit off.

The Choi storyline was just a bit much.  Because although is had a happier (?) ending, it was still just like Halstead ignoring the DNR.

[candall]

13 hours ago, Fostersmom said:

This episode just seemed off somehow. I've hated Halstead since episode one, but the more of the godawful Halstead/Manning relationship I see, the closer Manning is getting to hated category too. And what the hell was up with Dr. Choi claiming the patient said to save him when he obviously didn't? Don't make me hate Choi too. 

If it makes you feel better, my Closed Captioning showed: "Save me! [muffled]."

 

ITA that this episode was off--as in, totally whacked.  Manning's impulsive confession that she missed the diagnosis was ridiculous--she threw herself on the sacrificial pyre for no apparent reason, to no apparent gain.  Her speech to the intubated guy was horrible.  Who's writing this actor?

I was stunned when Maggie was opposed to the treatment withdrawal order and had to be reminded she had no standing to override it.  What?!  Let's keep this poor woman up in "Vent World" and continue to paint her nails once a week for another decade or two?  That's barely acceptable for a freaked-out, grief-struck relative who isn't thinking clearly, let alone a nurse.  Moving "Medical Directive" to the top of my To Do list.

Oliver Platt's contributions used to be my favorite part--I put up with all the staffer hormone stories for his sake.  Not so great watching him turn all his cases over to Dr. Stammerin' Reece.

**********

Daniel J. Travanti used to be one of the best things on television.  He, with his fine bone structure and twinkle-eye smile, made his romance with Veronica Hamel on Hill Street Blues pure, unadulterated sex on the hoof.  (That relationship--hot, respectful, equal--was my ideal.)  Difficult trying to square that memory with the disoriented old man--I wasn't even sure, until the twinkle-eye smile at the end.  Moving "Look at myself in the mirror" off my To Do list. 

[Fostersmom]

I could have sworn the guy was saying "let me go" and Choi was saying he said "save me", that was the whole reason the nurse with hep was looking at him with side eye and the later conversation that they are there to save people, she knew he hadn't been saying save me, but Choi chose to hear what he wanted to hear. 

[MakeMeLaugh]

1 hour ago, candall said:

....

I was stunned when Maggie was opposed to the treatment withdrawal order and had to be reminded she had no standing to override it.  What?!  Let's keep this poor woman up in "Vent World" and continue to paint her nails once a week for another decade or two?  That's barely acceptable for a freaked-out, grief-struck relative who isn't thinking clearly, let alone a nurse.  Moving "Medical Directive" to the top of my To Do list.....

Yes times a million. Maggie needs extensive grief therapy, not regular visits to comatose patients.

[maraleia]

Does anyone know who played Dr. Charles the younger?

[Diana Berry]

Wow I had no idea that was Daniel J Travanti. Yikes.  I second not looking in the mirror today lol.

[statsgirl]

Robin Charles was played by Mekia Cox.

The episode was written by Jeff Drayer and Joseph Sousa.  I'm making a point of avoiding their episodes next time.  The "We need to extubate Eric" sounds even worse the second time.

On 2016-10-15 at 0:43 PM, MakeMeLaugh said:

I thought this episode was a mess (and I'm not talking just about Dr Charles' lack of personal grooming <rim shot>). But seriously, shouldn't a doctor shoot a suspicion of criminal activity (sex trade--pimp getting hot guy addicted to heroin) right up to the legal higher ups or I don't know, just send their good friends Voight etc from PD out after the woman? Did the woman have power of attorney to be making the guy's medical decisions--was she really a relative (and did they verify that once the suspicions started)? That was a terrible resolution to that story line, the "oh well" shrugging as the poor guy was driven away. I hate seeing Reese's youthful idealism squelched especially if they could have made a difference. Now go take a shower, Dr Charles.

Aren't doctors legally obligated to report it if a patient is in imminent danger or likely to harm someone else?

The woman lied and said that she was his mother but they have good reason to believe that she's his pimp.  It seems to me that letting her go off with him goes against the rules in some way.

Why did Charles ask Reese to ask Choi to order more tests?  They're all doctors at the hospital, they should be able to order the tests themselves.

[CoyoteBlue]

11 hours ago, candall said:

ITA that this episode was off--as in, totally whacked.  Manning's impulsive confession that she missed the diagnosis was ridiculous--she threw herself on the sacrificial pyre for no apparent reason, to no apparent gain.  Her speech to the intubated guy was horrible.  Who's writing this actor?

And unless the guy's hands were out of commission, why in the hell didn't they just give him a pen and paper, ffs?

[starri]

10 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Aren't doctors legally obligated to report it if a patient is in imminent danger or likely to harm someone else?

Danger to themselves or others, yes.  If the patient is a senior citizen or a child, then yes.

But a woman who comes in and confesses that her husband has been beating her has the right to not allow the doctor to report it.

[Sarnia]

10 hours ago, statsgirl said:

The woman lied and said that she was his mother but they have good reason to believe that she's his pimp.  It seems to me that letting her go off with him goes against the rules in some way.

I understood that Dr Charles said the patient was 28 (or 18? Anyway, not a minor). If he doesn't say that he wants to stay, they cannot keep him by force. And he never said anything, so they have to assume he is going away of his own free will.

[Tiger]

Maggie and Reese's stories were ones ER would have let play out over a few episodes and really delved into.  The L&O 'wrap up the case in under 40 minutes' model doesnt give interesting stories the time to breath nor for the characters to grow.  

The doctor orchestra on the roof was odd.  

I still dont like Latham, but Im not really sure what Rhodes complaining about.  

The Charles daughter actress was somehow even blander than Torey deVitto.  

Edited October 18, 2016 by Tiger

[MakeMeLaugh]

On October 17, 2016 at 9:27 AM, starri said:

Danger to themselves or others, yes.  If the patient is a senior citizen or a child, then yes.

But a woman who comes in and confesses that her husband has been beating her has the right to not allow the doctor to report it.

I think the doctor actually has to report it in Chicago regardless of age (my Google searches included this among others:

"Futures Without Violence’s “Compendium of State Statutes and Policies on Domestic Violence and Health Care” provides additional information about Illinois’ statutes, including mandatory reporting requirements:

any person conducting or operating a medical facility, or any physician or nurse, to report treatment of injuries to local law enforcement when it reasonably appears that the person requesting treatment has suffered from an injury caused by the discharge of a firearm or sustained in the commission of, or as the victim of, a criminal offense. Protocol for hospitals licensed under the Hospital Licensing Act: 77 Ill. Adm. Code 250.1035." (http://www.cookcountypublichealth.org/violence-prevention/ipv-toolkit/10),

but no matter what, I would have expected the docs at least to have reported it to S'epatha and let her deal with whether or not this case (injuries sustained in the commission of, or as the victim of, a criminal offense) would require it. A friend in another state broke some bones in her hand after falling and the emergency room personnel separated her and her husband to grill each of them quite extensively about what happened and then compared their stories. 

[Guest]

I hadn't finished the first season so I just jumped right into the second season, a little confusing but not too bad. Not sure why Natalie doesn't want to be with the silver fox (no idea what his name is) when she obviously liked him an episode ago. I'm probably missing the back story there. Interesting storyline with the miraculous cure of the girl with cancer. Why do medical shows never actually seem real?

[WendyCR72]

12 minutes ago, heatherrrrz said:

Why do medical shows never actually seem real?

ER seemed to be. At least in its early years.

[Guest]

Just now, WendyCR72 said:

ER seemed to be. At least in its early years.

I'll have to watch that sometime. I used to be a medical assistant so these shows all fascinate me. I stopped watching Greys because they just kept killing people off that I liked. This would never happen in a real hospital lol. 

The storyline about the pimp was my favorite of the episode. Not sure why they weren't aware he was on Heroin before they treated him. Obviously, a tox screen should have been ran. Maybe I wasn't paying attention and it was? I'll have to rewatch this week.

[starri]

5 minutes ago, heatherrrrz said:

The storyline about the pimp was my favorite of the episode. Not sure why they weren't aware he was on Heroin before they treated him. Obviously, a tox screen should have been ran. Maybe I wasn't paying attention and it was? I'll have to rewatch this week.

Tox screens really aren't done routinely.  Having confirmation of a drug in a person's system doesn't really change how you manage them, and with most drugs where the drug is the reason you're treating them, you can usually tell what they're on.  The one exception would be if you have a young person who is having chest pain and denying any drug use.

Psychiatric admissions will request them, but that's about the only case where it's done more often than not.

[TVForever]

On October 16, 2016 at 8:26 PM, Diana Berry said:

Wow I had no idea that was Daniel J Travanti. Yikes.  I second not looking in the mirror today lol.

Seriously?!?! I need to rewatch the episode OnDemand. I had no idea that was him!

Edited October 19, 2016 by TVForever

[Guest]

15 hours ago, starri said:

Tox screens really aren't done routinely.  Having confirmation of a drug in a person's system doesn't really change how you manage them, and with most drugs where the drug is the reason you're treating them, you can usually tell what they're on.  The one exception would be if you have a young person who is having chest pain and denying any drug use.

Psychiatric admissions will request them, but that's about the only case where it's done more often than not.

See, I don't think I saw exactly why he was in the hospital to begin with. I was probably zoning out a bit at that moment.

[TVForever]

On October 18, 2016 at 7:44 AM, Tiger said:

 

I still dont like Latham, but Im not really sure what Rhodes complaining about.  

Latham may be be the first doctor Rhodes has come across that doesn't treat him like he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[Margherita Erdman]

On 10/16/2016 at 7:26 AM, candall said:

[snip] Moving "Medical Directive" to the top of my To Do list.

Oliver Platt's contributions used to be my favorite part...

**********

Daniel J. Travanti used to be one of the best things on television.  He, with his fine bone structure and twinkle-eye smile, made his romance with Veronica Hamel on Hill Street Blues pure, unadulterated sex on the hoof.  (That relationship--hot, respectful, equal--was my ideal.)  Difficult trying to square that memory with the disoriented old man--I wasn't even sure, until the twinkle-eye smile at the end.  Moving "Look at myself in the mirror" off my To Do list. 

I guess you & I now have the same To Do/Not To Do list, @candall! I have a health condition that requires constant monitoring and treatment, and once it put me in the hospital for an extended stay, so I've had blank forms to complete for living will, medical power of attorney, and advance directive gathering dust in a folder for quite a while, but it's this awful maudlin subplot has caused me to dig out the file and move it to the top of the pile on my desk.

And I'm with you on both Oliver Platt and Daniel J. Travanti. Speaking of lists — add both of them to the growing list of Actors & Actresses Who Remind Me in a Particularly Dramatic Way That I Am Aging.

On 10/17/2016 at 7:27 AM, starri said:

Danger to themselves or others, yes.  If the patient is a senior citizen or a child, then yes.

But a woman who comes in and confesses that her husband has been beating her has the right to not allow the doctor to report it.

@MakeMeLaugh has flagged this above, but there are many jurisdictions now that have taken the discretion/burden away from adult victims of intimate violence for reporting and prosecution. Massachusetts pioneered this approach 20-some years ago. I don't know what the system is in IL/Chicago, but it is no longer a given that a victim must personally come forward and press charges.

On 10/19/2016 at 6:01 AM, TVForever said:

Latham may be be the first doctor Rhodes has come across that doesn't treat him like he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

This! Also it seems to me that surgery is a specialty well-suited to someone with Asperger's or an Asperger's-type profile. Bedside manner — not so important; precision, rote memory, devotion to process, intense curiosity in narrow fields of focus — awesome. Not sure that someone like that belongs in a teaching hospital though, except for something like Grand Rounds.

[statsgirl]

While everyone on the staff (except for Halstead) has treated Rhodes like he's special, his back story is that his father always treated him badly, to the extent that Rhodes Sr tried to use his wealth to get Sharon to fire Connor last season.  The medical school in the Spanish speaking country (I can't remember which) is because his father prevented him from going to med school in the U.S.

If this show were better written, I could tie that into his perception of Latham disliking him but it's not

On 2016-10-18 at 4:33 PM, heatherrrrz said:

 Interesting storyline with the miraculous cure of the girl with cancer. Why do medical shows never actually seem real?

Because real medicine is so boring, no one would watch it.  It's grunt work most of the time.

Psychiatry even more so. You could treat patients for five years and not find as much interesting to watch as a couple of episodes on TV.

[starri]

On 10/23/2016 at 0:48 AM, statsgirl said:

The medical school in the Spanish speaking country (I can't remember which) is because his father prevented him from going to med school in the U.S.

Universidad Autonoma de Guadalaraja.  It's a real school in Mexico.

[Court]

I really wanted the illness to be Manning's fault.

[torqy]

On 10/20/2016 at 1:59 PM, Margherita Erdman said:

This! Also it seems to me that surgery is a specialty well-suited to someone with Asperger's or an Asperger's-type profile. Bedside manner — not so important; precision, rote memory, devotion to process, intense curiosity in narrow fields of focus — awesome. Not sure that someone like that belongs in a teaching hospital though, except for something like Grand Rounds.

Never thought about surgeons this way, but I think you're right.

[Chas411]

Dr. Charles daughter is playing the exact same character on Secrets and Lies. 

If Halstead and Manning get together I can see it ending as quickly as it starts. 

[Sake614]

On 10/19/2016 at 8:23 AM, TVForever said:

Seriously?!?! I need to rewatch the episode OnDemand. I had no idea that was him!

Really? I knew the second I saw him. And I also thought it was pretty obvious when he was the first person we saw after his name appeared in the credits.