TDS 3.0: Season Two Talk

[angora]

After watching so much impartial news coverage that only called the proceedings "shocking"/"surprising" and wondered what the polls missed, it was a relief to see someone who was as sad and upset as I was reacting personally to what was happening.  Everybody just seemed so dejected - kudos to the whole team for giving it to us honestly and still managing to find a few (dark) jokes in the whole mess.

And thanks the Avengers post-credits tableau in the MoZ - it was a HARD night, and I needed that.

[Hanahope]

I have to hope this show continues.

[topanga]

I'm going to have to avoid this show for a few days. I know it's not the end of the world, but I just don't have it in me to laugh about President-elect Trump right now.

[zxy556575]

Me neither except I'm curious to see how Trevor (and others) handle it tonight. Black humor or full on despair? I couldn't even pretend to be sprightly if it was me.

To be honest, I don't know if TV commiserating with the like-minded will help or hurt.

[scarynikki12]

I'm glad I watched. I felt it helped in its own way. Michelle and Hassan were perfect in their expressions of emotion. I hope Hassan's mom can come home without fuss. 

[Hooper]

I learned two things from tonight's episode: I thought I was done bawling, and I thought I didn't care for Michelle Wolf.  Wrong on both counts.

Also.  Hasan totally broke my heart.

[DanaMB]

I actually rolled my eyes when she came on, but by the end I had tears in my eyes. She did a great job. So did Hasan. Their emotions were real and I was gutted.

[Unusual Suspect]

Rage and anxiety had been keeping me from tears, Hasan and Michelle undid that. Still, a good show. 

[Lantern7]

Out of all the late night comedy hosts, I'd like to hug Trevor the most. This was not the ideal first election for him, even if things had gone the other way. He stands proud, where Jon Stewart decided to walk away from the daily grind. Trevor will be okay no matter what, but this was not the best way for him to enter the scene.

[Brandi Maxxxx]

Michelle: "How you supposed to be able to handle a country if you can't handle a pussy?"
Me: "Take THAT, James Buchanan!"

[purist]

Yeah, I absolutely agree that Trevor, Michelle and Hasan were terrific. But the last segment with John Stanton about what might happen in Drumpf's first 100 days has sunk me right back into a pit of despair. And I'm not even a US citizen.

Edited November 10, 2016 by purist

[topanga]

Sounds like a great episode. But I still need a few days. 

[angora]

Echoing everyone who said they were glad they watched.  Giving the stage to Michelle and Hasan felt absolutely right (especially since they weren't really involved in last night's show.)  Both of their reactions were so poignant.  Michelle's voice cracking as she admitted how sad she felt that we need to be reminded that little girls have value just killed me.  And Hasan - man... The stuff about his mom was awful, of course, but the hardest part for me was his point that, for some people, it wasn't even that they agreed with the bigotry - it was that they just don't care enough about Muslims/immigrants/Mexicans/women/and so forth to let the bigotry deter them.  Even though a lot of the correspondents got to react during the live show last night, it might be nice to have more of these segments, a couple every night to let them all just vent how they're feeling.  (And Trevor continues to be spot-on - I really felt for him when he said that hearing Obama say it was what made it finally feel real for him.)

[zxy556575]

After listening to Hasan on the Politically Re-Active podcast and on last night's show -- have we been pronouncing his name wrong all this time? He, Kamau, and Hari all pronounced it with a strong accent on the first syllable.

[scarynikki12]

His mom is an immigrant so that might be how it's pronounced if said with that accent.  The way they say it on the Daily Show is the correct way if said with an American one.  I'm sure he would have corrected everyone if they were saying his name wrong.

[zxy556575]

5 hours ago, purist said:

But the last segment with John Stanton about what might happen in Drumpf's first 100 days has sunk me right back into a pit of despair. And I'm not even a US citizen.

Yeah, I had to turn that off after the first couple of minutes. I honestly felt like I might throw up.

[FartyPants]

3 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

His mom is an immigrant so that might be how it's pronounced if said with that accent.  The way they say it on the Daily Show is the correct way if said with an American one.  I'm sure he would have corrected everyone if they were saying his name wrong.

hmm depends on how you define correct. If you define correct pronunciation of a pronoun as - pronunciation as intended by those who named him .. then how he/everyone says on daily show is not correct, but accepted instead of trying to correct everyone. Have you heard the latino reporters that are reporting news and suddenly say their names in latino accent? Hasan has not chosen to do that. Or may be he thinks that the way is pronounced on daily show is the right pronunciation .. but without knowing that, I would assume that how his mom and another south Asian person says it ,is the right pronunciation.

Have not watched last night's show yet, but the live show was good. And as Colbert said on his show .. the sad faces of people on those two shows is probably like porn to Trump supporters :(

[topanga]

2 minutes ago, FartyPants said:

hmm depends on how you define correct. If you define correct pronunciation of a pronoun as - pronunciation as intended by those who named him .. then how he/everyone says on daily show is not correct, but accepted instead of trying to correct everyone. Have you heard the latino reporters that are reporting news and suddenly say their names in latino accent? Hasan has not chosen to do that. Or may be he thinks that the way is pronounced on daily show is the right pronunciation .. but without knowing that, I would assume that how his mom and another south Asian person says it ,is the right pronunciation.

I've heard him refer to himself as Ha-SAN on TDS and numerous podcasts. Maybe he was just Americanizing his name for the public? 

Oh, and how your mom pronounces your name is the correct way to pronounce it. Though we might choose to alter our own names later.

[peeayebee]

This was a better show than I expected. I didn't expect the seriousness. For those of us upset by Trump getting elected, jokes are not always appropriate.

I was tearing up before Michelle broke. Of course I've been tearing up at random moments the past two days.

Trevor saying that this doesn't seem real is exactly how I feel. I've read a few articles on how this happened, but seriously, no one would have said this was possible a year ago. Well, I guess Donald would have said so. Oh, and when Trevor said "That is the face that is going to console a nation after a tragedy," I realized I hadn't thought of that. I don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth. He never sounds sincere to me. He never sounds real. Of course we know he lies constantly. But how horrible that he -- HIM, DONALD TRUMP!!! -- is going to be the one to address us after something horrible happens and tell us how badly he feels and is praying for the families. I just....

[Bastet]

I don't know why I decided to skip it last night when I was drinking, but watch it today sober, but I just watched last night's episode.

Michelle's reaction to that section of Hillary's speech was the same as mine; I had been watching the speech with a friend (last night; I was too raw to watch it in real time) and when she delivered that message to girls, I burst into tears and said to my friend, "It's 2016, and we have to remind them of that."  So seeing her choke up and say the same thing really got to me and I was glad for the commercial break to get myself back together.

Then came Hasan.  When he said even if Trump's open racism was not why you voted for Trump, that it was not an automatic disqualifier is saying, "Hey man, I don't hate you, I just don't care about you," I knew he was going to get to me, too.  And when he got to the phone call with his mom?  My heart started aching all over again.  I'm glad he closed with the joke about her owing him money, because I was losing it.

I had to turn off the interview, though.  Those thoughts are swirling around in my head; I'm just not yet ready to hear them voiced.

[Fable]

I watched some of the show on the Comedy Central website this morning, but for reasons unknown, I was unable to get the bit with Michelle to play, so I just went back and watched it a few minutes ago.  I hadn’t shed a tear since the news broke that Trump had won (I did, however, vomit, and that is not a lie).  I felt like crying, but the tears wouldn’t come, I think I was just too dazed.  When Michelle got to the end where they showed Hillary speaking and then Michelle broke down, I began to sob.  I really, really needed that! 

[nodorothyparker]

Michelle has at times been kind of uneven even when I generally liked what she had to say, but yeah, this is the one that broke me too.  So many of my friends are sharing and resharing that quote from the speech as some kind of aspirational or consolation thing and every time I've seen it I've had that reaction that it shouldn't fucking need to be said here in 2016 but then I remember that we just ended a presidential campaign that featured actual arguments about how bad is bragging about pussy grabbing, really? and rallying cries of "trump that bitch" and think yeah, it did need to be said.  And how damn appalling is that?

Right now it's all too raw for me to fully appreciate much of what anyone's trying to do beyond that.  I'm glad they're hanging in there and trying though.

Edited November 11, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[FartyPants]

Both Hasan and Michelle were awesome in showing their pain/frustration. Michelle's bits are hit or miss for me .. (Though I always like her .. She is a redhead with freckles, I can't not like her.) but this one felt very genuine.

[possibilities]

I am really appreciating the show's willingness to be direct and serious and not just stick to yucking it up. I think I'd be on board with them maintaining this approach into the future. They can still be funny, but it's not necessary to always be funny. Sometimes it's important (and just as cathartic) to just be real. Comedy can be cutting through the bullshit to expose the truth, but there are other ways to do that, such as being direct and raw and honest.

Thursday's show actually helped me calm down a little bit. My reaction to the situation has been on dual tracks: one is anger/disgust, and the other is fear. The fear hasn't abated at all; I just haven't found any perspective that minimizes that. But the anger/disgust is really toxic, and even if justified, it feels like past a certain point it's not helping me to be constructive and empowered. But hearing Trevor reflect on things, without making excuses or minimizing the impacts, it just made me feel a little bit more able to digest it.

He's been through a lot. I always marvel at how he manages to not come across bitter and cynical. What he feels inside, I don't know. He has talked about having problems with depression, so I know he's more than what he shows on camera. But still-- his ability to not appear stuck in only one response, and to keep coming back with more perspective, instead of flogging the same simplistic reaction, is admirable.

I have my share of righteous anger, but it only gets anyone so far. I like that Trevor can portray a range of emotional and intellectual responses. It also means I never know what to expect when I tune in to the show. They're not all winners, but when they flop, I feel like it's OK because they don't get stuck on the same formulas, and will try something else, so the disappointment doesn't last too long.

[zxy556575]

I liked Trevor's advice for the protestors: It's fun and all but like sex, when it starts to burn ...

Thought he also did a nice job with the rust belt/economic anger segment. No folks, those jobs aren't coming back, but good luck under Trump. (My inner pipsqueak did offer up the suggestion that the reason Middle Americans who previously voted for Obama moved to Trump is, uh, because HRS is a woman. I'll never not believe that.)

Edited November 11, 2016 by lordonia

[ABay]

I'm plowing through all the shows since Tuesday and it's making my soul hurt again.

[angora]

It seems, whenever the protests come up, I hear people who dismiss it because "it's not like it'll change anything," so I appreciated Trevor's perspective on it, as a demonstration to the rest of the world that not all Americans condone Trump.  I also liked that he cautioned against violence, again citing the anger and fear that led to Trump's victory in the first place.

Those inner-monologue montages of things Obama and Trump said about each other were really well-done.  I know he's focused on moving forward for the sake of the country, but seriously - Obama is a Zen master!

[stillshimpy]

Oddly, Michelle had made me laugh as loud as any bit on The Daily Show ever did, just because she took it in an entirely unexpected direction.  The bit about the single-dad showing his daughter what a tampon was, "Step 1, remove the wrapper....this doesn't look anything like I thought it would.....Step 2, find your mother and recommit to this marriage....."    and now she made me cry as hard as anything Jon ever did too. 

I couldn't face this show for days.  I genuinely took to my bed like a freaking Victorian and took a fucking sedative and cried nonstop on Wednesday.  

Trevor's done well with this material, all while looking sincerely freaked the fuck out which I can empathize with so I'm finding it a bonus.  

A part of me is so incredibly glad that Larry Wilmore's show was canceled before this happened, though.  I am positive I would have lost it fully.  I weirdly needed the very slight emotional distance that being from someplace else afforded both John Oliver and Trevor so that I wouldn't continually lose it.  I'm pretty sure Larry would gut me entirely.  

[zxy556575]

Ah, Trevor. You remain my oasis in a landscape of shifting orange media sand.

Now, ahem. Am I honestly supposed to listen to anything that comes out of Nate "The Weasel" Silver's mouth? I never went to his site -- check my IP! -- but saw enough people clinging to and quoting it to make me roll my eyes. He and his ego can bite me.

[Lantern7]

As somebody who watched Red Dwarf, I assumed the "J" stood for "Judas." Turns out it's "John." I'll stick with my assumption.

[Hanahope]

Of course, Trump supporters just say that all politicians promise stuff they don't deliver.  Course, I remember people complaining when Obama didn't fulfill some of his campaign promises, mainly the Guantanomo Bay prison.  Now Obama may not have been able to fulfill some of his promises because he had an intransient Congress opposing him at every thing.  Trump will have a much more accommodating Congress.

[fastiller]

@Lantern7 - anyone who makes a RD reference is cool by me!!!  

[Victor the Crab]

4 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

As somebody who watched Red Dwarf, I assumed the "J" stood for "Judas." Turns out it's "John." I'll stick with my assumption.

 

3 hours ago, fastiller said:

@Lantern7 - anyone who makes a RD reference is cool by me!!!  

Smeg off the lot of yas! ;)

[zxy556575]

Ah, last year. Dreamier times when we all thought Trevor's segment on African dictators was high-larious.

Holy shit balls.

[Delwyn]

On 2016-11-14 at 10:44 PM, lordonia said:

Ah, Trevor. You remain my oasis in a landscape of shifting orange media sand.

Now, ahem. Am I honestly supposed to listen to anything that comes out of Nate "The Weasel" Silver's mouth? I never went to his site -- check my IP! -- but saw enough people clinging to and quoting it to make me roll my eyes. He and his ego can bite me.

I might be confused by this as a foreign observer, but wasn't he given a lot of flack for being too conservative about HRC's chances and giving Trump a greater chance than most interpretations of the polls? So he was more correct than most? Or am I misreading it? I could just be a smeghead ;)

[peeayebee]

My recording started 8 minutes late. Grrr. How did the ep start? I thought the audience was kind of subdued and wondered if something happened at the beginning. When my recording started was when Trevor said that when he started as host, people yelled at him to go back to Africa, and now friends are saying maybe he should go back to Africa.

Loved all the parallels betw Trump and Zuma. I mean, I don't LOVE them, but they're interesting and ominous. Straight Outta Cape Town was a good graphic.

The African class was good, too. (Corruption American Style) I gather this started in the opening that I missed? Anyway, I liked when the teacher said that Americans are trying to figure out if Caitlyn Jenner needs to use the bathroom or not. The winking betw him and Trevor was silly but funny.

I feel bad finding humor here.

[aradia22]

Quote

After listening to Hasan on the Politically Re-Active podcast and on last night's show -- have we been pronouncing his name wrong all this time? He, Kamau, and Hari all pronounced it with a strong accent on the first syllable.

I have a friend with a Muslim name and though I know how to pronounce it (actually because I've heard her mom say it) she goes by the more Americanized sounding version so that's what I call her. There's less baggage associated with it, but I guess it's similar to French words. People who try really hard to pronounce "croissant" correctly come off sounding a little pretentious. Or, that old joke about people who over-enunciate "guacamole" or if you're Giada di Laurentiis, all those Italian words. If someone doesn't ask me to pronounce their name a certain way, I won't. 

I watched the episode with Michelle and Hasan that's being discussed but I think that's it for me. I might check back here to see if there's something I should really catch like Ronnie's segment in Chinatown but I need to take a break from TDS for a while. There's only so much staring at Trump's face I can do. I wish they would stop putting up those static graphics.

[angora]

At a time when most of the humor is mixed with dread and/or disgust, at least we still have Ben Carson.  Saying he wasn't qualified for a cabinet position after having run for president was awesomely ironic, and I liked Trevor's bit about how he might have been trying to warn us all this time and only just reached the end of the sentence.

What was Trevor's line at the end of the Corruption American Style bit?  Something like, "I'd like to lobby you for an A on the test" - that cracked me up.

[zxy556575]

9 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I feel bad finding humor here.

Since it's humor with a point/message, I'm finding I'm okay with it. Same with political comics like Lewis Black.

On the other hand, I'm kind of holding it against talk show hosts and comics who don't take a stand. I deleted my season passes for Kimmel, Fallon and Corden. They can suck up to advertisers and play both sides of the fence without me.

[fastiller]

14 hours ago, peeayebee said:

 

I feel bad finding humor here.

Please don't - it 's part of what makes us human: seeing the humour in awful situations.  

[peeayebee]

11 hours ago, aradia22 said:

People who try really hard to pronounce "croissant" correctly come off sounding a little pretentious.

From your lips to Alex Trebek's ears.

Quote

Or, that old joke about people who over-enunciate "guacamole" or if you're Giada di Laurentiis, all those Italian words.

Oh good. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's annoyed by her pronunciation.

[Hanahope]

On 11/16/2016 at 5:46 AM, Delwyn said:

I might be confused by this as a foreign observer, but wasn't he given a lot of flack for being too conservative about HRC's chances and giving Trump a greater chance than most interpretations of the polls? So he was more correct than most? Or am I misreading it? I could just be a smeghead ;)

The problem with the 538 site is that it collected all polls together, all of which would have a 3-4% margin of error.  So ta poll would show Clinton 50, Trump 45, for example, which really meant Clinton 46-54 and Trump 41-49, so it could also mean Clinton 46, Trump 49.  But when 538 would collect all these polls, they tended to solidify and emphasize the C50-T45, and that is what Silver's main polls would ultimately show.  Looking at his site had a tendency to lose that margin of error, that obviously was quite important.

[peeayebee]

I thought last night's show was good. The only complaint I have is Trevor making fun of Trump for thinking he was sneaking out undetected. I doubt Trump thought that. Instead, he was showing the press that they aren't invited, that they are fools who are still going to be kept in a corral in his administration.

Giuliani being the human The Scream portrait is perfect.

I can't be indifferent to Steve Bannon's appointment like Roy Wood Jr, but I do agree that it is merely bolded text of what has always been there in Trump's world. And, of course, in the larger world.

Mitch McConnell trying to deflect the question by saying, "It's nice to see you guys today," was incredibly dumb and transparent. Same with Paul Ryan saying he doesn't know Steve Bannon. I don't know Vladimir Putin either, but I have some opinions about him.

The death of facts segment was good. What was it that Desi said last? That it's bad when pants smell?

The Wesley Lowery interview was also good.  

[dusang]

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

The problem with the 538 site is that it collected all polls together, all of which would have a 3-4% margin of error.  So ta poll would show Clinton 50, Trump 45, for example, which really meant Clinton 46-54 and Trump 41-49, so it could also mean Clinton 46, Trump 49.  But when 538 would collect all these polls, they tended to solidify and emphasize the C50-T45, and that is what Silver's main polls would ultimately show.  Looking at his site had a tendency to lose that margin of error, that obviously was quite important.

I don't understand how that makes him a "weasel" -- his model still favoured Trump more than most similar models, all amalgamated polls were available in their entirety to be reviewed, and his methodology was fully explained.  Are you accusing him personally of promoting false complacency among voters, certain of Clinton's victory? That seems a little unfair.

[Hanahope]

I'm not calling him a weasel.  I do think his report and collection of polls into one grouping may have helped promote false complacency.  Many people would just look at his collection, without digging deeper into the polls themselves and I'm not sure Silver dissuaded that action enough.  There's a reason  Gallup stopped doing political race polls.

[ChelseaNH]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

What was it that Desi said last? That it's bad when pants smell?

I heard "dolphins can't smell."

[zxy556575]

@dusang, I'm the weasel-caller. I think Silver has become overtaken by self-importance and is unbearably smug. I used weasel in the sense of him trying to backtrack now because he was wrong.

From Wikipedia: "After Silver successfully called the outcomes in 49 of the 50 states in the 2008 U.S. Presidential election, he was named one of The World's 100 Most Influential People by Time in 2009." I think he bought into his own hype and am glad his hubris has taken a hit.

[theatremouse]

6 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I'm not calling him a weasel.  I do think his report and collection of polls into one grouping may have helped promote false complacency.  Many people would just look at his collection, without digging deeper into the polls themselves and I'm not sure Silver dissuaded that action enough.  There's a reason  Gallup stopped doing political race polls.

I think Trevor sounded like an idiot in the segment with Silver. He repeatedly asked Silver to explain, and (as edited) cut him off before allowing Silver to answer. Silver's analysis (and others' on his site) showed Trump with a substantially higher chance of winning than any other major publication. If anything, Silver repeatedly emphasized greater uncertainty than anyone else leading up to the election. If Trevor (or anyone else) wants to cast doubt on the point of analyzing polls, sure, great do it. Want to imply or outright state there was voter complacency on the Clinton-side? It wasn't 538 encouraging it. I read multiple articles from multiple news orgs basically ripping Silver to shreds in the days before the election saying his methodology was stupid and he'd look like an idiot when Clinton mopped the floor with Trump. THOSE articles scared me. Trevor's just repeating "but what's the point? what's the point?" here sounded like just throwing his arms up in the air. The point is that Clinton's lead in individual states was never so huge as to be outside the margin of error of the polls, which Silver kept starting to try to say before Trevor stopped him. It really annoyed me that Trevor either cut Silver off before allowing him to say that, or he did say it and they edited it out and showed what was basically just Trevor whinging. There was a real chance there to spread some understanding about how polling data can be interpreted in different ways, and why it was probably always a lot closer than a lot of news outlets were reporting. I'm not saying Silver's the bestestest and his methodology wins over everyone elses, but the one thing he did do was consistently emphasize how not-a-lock it was. The outcome may not have been any different, but Trump winning the electoral college with fewer votes than Romney lost with makes me even more appalled than I already was reading all the gloatey analysis that said things like Trump only had a 2% chance of winning. Trevor had Silver on, someone who if nothing else is good at explaining some of the math that goes into this type of analysis, then Trevor basically just took it as an opportunity to insist polling is silly. I know it's a fake news show, and they're aiming for comedy, but the segment was neither informative nor funny. They need to at least do one or the other in each segment. I'm not saying be a sycophant at the guest but call him out on something worth calling out for, or let the guy explain his take and THEN mock him for it. Why have him on to just talk over him? It looked especially bad juxtaposed with the Gwen Ifill clip at the end about asking the questions not assuming the answers.

[purist]

9 hours ago, peeayebee said:

The Wesley Lowery interview was also good.

Agreed. I was just thinking the other day that Trevor hasn't done many interviews with authors of interesting books - which Jon Stewart used to do often, and which I always enjoyed. Glad to see one here. I hope there are more!

[needschocolate]

I think Silver made a good point that if the Dems had treated the election as though Trump had a 30%  chance of winning (which 538 predicted) rather than a 10% chance, they would have campaigned differently those last few weeks. But perhaps, the site doesn't do a good job of helping people interpret it that way.  

On 11/17/2016 at 5:38 AM, peeayebee said:

Oh good. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's annoyed by her pronunciation.

Go to the thread for any show that Giada is on and you will quickly notice that you are not alone.