S04.E11: To Love And To Cherish

[LazyToaster]

I'm sorry - probably shallow of me - but, I could never ever trust Nick again if I was Sonia.  I just imagine her with a really sweet, cute guy that would adore her - wouldn't that be nice?  He keeps getting worse in my eyes and she has shown a surprising amount of inner strength.  I hope she sticks to her guns.  

[nlkm9]

im telling you..david from last season. OMG it would have been perfect!!

[gonecrackers]

5 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

im telling you..david from last season. OMG it would have been perfect!!

Maybe, but, bit of a location issue there. :)

[HZAnita]

Nick.  I don't believe a word he says.  

He is either completely insane and/or has no capacity to "feel" or understand the feelings of others.  

Of course, it could be really, really bad editing.

In any case? [/Sonia]  Run, Sonia, Run!!

[psychoticstate]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I don't get this issue over the flowers.  So fucking what if they're cheap?  I remember when I was in college and the girls would compare as to who got the best bouquet of roses for Valentine's Day. 

I don't see Tom as resenting Lily at all.  He feels the way I do, I can't stand people who think they need things to prove they're okay; for me, the best money spent is on experiences, not on shit that eventually will collect dust.  I think the gesture of bringing flowers was sweet no matter where they came from.

Damn, sometimes I feel like I'm watching a totally different show from people here.  I find Tom very sweet, so far.

I'm with you, @Neurochick.  I didn't find fault with the flowers nor do I consider Tom cheap.  I find the gesture and words far more important than the price tag.  He seems more interested in spending time with Lily, supporting her and bringing her into his life than stopping by the florist to order a bouquet ten plus times in cost over what you'd get at your local market. 

From what we've seen so far, I find Tom to be sweet, concerned, sympathetic and (gasp!) mature.  He seems to be all in to make this work, which is more than we can say from others that we've seen.  The bus may not have been the most awesome thing ever but he moved out (at least for the duration) and he's not griping about it or blaming Lily.  And I laughed over his comments in the car about wanting to be a gay cowboy on the ranch, to see if Lily was listening to him.  I've done stuff like that so it was funny to me. 

I guess that Derek and Heather's contracts say they have to be shown on each episode. Why else start with the scene we ended with last week, then go to a commercial break at the same point it ended last week and then tell us exactly what we know, which is they are DONE.  Honestly, I'm kind of surprised Heather didn't bring papers because there is no way she and Derek are going to be friends.  Ha.  That's funny.  I don't know Florida law but it seems like when you're basically done three days in, you haven't consummated your marriage nor lived under the same roof, you should be able to get an annulment.  Oh well.

I did enjoy seeing Sonia (and Nick) hand out sandwiches to the homeless. She does seem like a sweet person.  He is clueless, intentional or short sighted I don't know.  There is zero chemistry between them.  They act like co-workers getting lunch together - - polite, courteous and even friendly but no romantic interest whatsoever. 

[gonecrackers]

2 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

And I laughed over his comments in the car about wanting to be a gay cowboy on the ranch, to see if Lily was listening to him.  I've done stuff like that so it was funny to me. 

That was great... he seems to have a good sense of humor. She might be a bit more serious but that could make for a good balance. I read somewhere relationships tend to work better when the man is more lighthearted & the woman is more on the serious side. Hopefully it works for them.

[Madding crowd]

Nick seems so lifeless and joyless to me. He showed no emotion when they were giving out the sandwiches. He says he wants Sonia to move back, but when they were sitting on the couch and she touched his hand he didn't react at all. 

I still don't think Heather is a bad person. She is probably tired of being asked the same questions over and over. I still like Lilly but not sure about Tom. The free spirit live style often gets old, especially for people who want to have children. In regard to Tom's flowers: I am a person who enjoys presents from my husband. But it's never about the cost; it's about him finding something that he knows I like. Grabbing a cheap bouquet from the gas station is just very generic. Especially since Lilly got hm a personal gift and just threw him a birthday party. The other day my husband bought me a pretty cup to drink my iced coffe out of, and I love it because it proves he put thought into it.

Wanted to add that I have thought from day one that Tom seems like he is reading from a script. It's probably just him being nervous on TV, or like someone else said, they have to do it over and over.

[Jellybeans]

Re: the flowers, I was floored Lilly commented she preferred lilies.  I thought nothing of the size of the bouquet...I mean does it really matter?  They were pretty!  At least it didn't have the price tag and tacky plastic wrapped around it.  

I do think Nick and Sonia are growing closer.  I guess I am watching a different show, lol.

Heather still annoys me.  

[belladonna77]

It's not the cheapness of the flowers, really. It's that Tom showed little thought in doing something for Lilian. She blew up a picture of him surfing and he got her flowers. It's impersonal. 

Nick is just empty inside. Nothing is ever going to fill him up. I hope Sonia realizes this sooner rather than later. 

[SaucyMommy]

I actually thought the flowers were really sweet. I don't think he is the type of guy that would spend a lot on flowers. And she seems to be the type of woman - as am I - that loves the gesture not the gift. I don't think there is anything wrong with "gas station" flowers. It's the sentiment that counts and clearly he was thinking of her :)

[Neurochick]

30 minutes ago, belladonna77 said:

It's not the cheapness of the flowers, really. It's that Tom showed little thought in doing something for Lilian. She blew up a picture of him surfing and he got her flowers. It's impersonal. 

Nick is just empty inside. Nothing is ever going to fill him up. I hope Sonia realizes this sooner rather than later. 

It wasn't impersonal to me.  Tom seems like the type of person who wouldn't want to spend money on a gift; maybe he knows that Lily likes flowers.  I don't get this dissection of Tom at all.  I think some might be concerned because he's not the typical 9-5 type.  I like that he surfs and I liked that he wanted to teach Lily to surf.  That's the difference between Nick and Tom.  Tom wants to bring Lily into his world, he wants to be in hers; Nick doesn't want to do any of that because to him it would be work and Nick thinks relationships are just supposed to "happen" without anybody putting in any effort.

[athousandclowns]

8 minutes ago, Jellybeans said:

Re: the flowers, I was floored Lilly commented she preferred lilies.  I thought nothing of the size of the bouquet...I mean does it really matter?  They were pretty!  At least it didn't have the price tag and tacky plastic wrapped around it.  

I do think Nick and Sonia are growing closer.  I guess I am watching a different show, lol.

Heather still annoys me.  

Is that what she said?!!!!   I thought there must have been a calla lily in there so she commented Lilly's are my favorite  flower.   They had no wrapping on them I'm supposing gas station ones do.   Often when someone is buying a rose or few flowers they ask for it not to be wrapped to make it appear casual.   it was not babies breath but the color of flowers looked dyed so not from a florist. 

I have to admit I am giving Nick a pass on lack of emotion on sandwich handout  I have a friend who I walk with that didn't tell me on this particular last walk that was his mission  He worked with homeless for years( is a therapist and videographer ) and volunteers with a program that try to get them to show up at a center eat lunch and maybe help with jobs and housing.  So what wasn't shown is many do not want the food or camera or to be quizzed about how they wound up on the street. Alcohol drugs and mental illness is the number one reason  I told my friend after listening to a very drunk regular (who he knew by name ) that he has the patience of a saint  he said you can't be fixed on the goal you have to enjoy the progress. 

David would be so in with Lily on her weekend give outs. If Nick  doesn't give a crap about making her comfortable reaching out to homeless is a big stretch, kinda shines a light on what a good person she is and he's not. 

Please enough with Heather.  Stick a fork in the it. 

[Jellybeans]

I used to date a guy like Nick and it took awhile for it to happen but he was my great love. It is probably why I am a softie with him.

We don't know when Tom works. The editing monkeys are not showing it.  What they are showing is him surfing all the time while she works but for all we know we could be seeing him on his scheduled days off. 

[cardigirl]

49 minutes ago, Jellybeans said:

Re: the flowers, I was floored Lilly commented she preferred lilies.  I thought nothing of the size of the bouquet...I mean does it really matter?  They were pretty!  At least it didn't have the price tag and tacky plastic wrapped around it.  

I do think Nick and Sonia are growing closer.  I guess I am watching a different show, lol.

Heather still annoys me.  

I thought she said that lilies were her favorite, but I didn't get that she was saying "ugh, I hate these, I prefer lilies."  She also told him that they were pretty and that it was sweet of him.   It's possible he asked about which were her favorites and we didn't see that part. 

[SaucyMommy]

I thought there were lilies in there and that is why she was happy :)

[cardigirl]

Just now, SaucyMommy said:

I thought there were lilies in there and that is why she was happy :)

I'll look again, but I didn't see any lilies in it. Could be wrong, of course.  :) 

[Jellybeans]

True, he might have asked.

[Madding crowd]

25 minutes ago, athousandclowns said:

Is that what she said?!!!!   I thought there must have been a calla lily in there so she commented Lilly's are my favorite  flower.   They had no wrapping on them I'm supposing gas station ones do.   Often when someone is buying a rose or few flowers they ask for it not to be wrapped to make it appear casual.   it was not babies breath but the color of flowers looked dyed so not from a florist. 

I have to admit I am giving Nick a pass on lack of emotion on sandwich handout  I have a friend who I walk with that didn't tell me on this particular last walk that was his mission  He worked with homeless for years( is a therapist and videographer ) and volunteers with a program that try to get them to show up at a center eat lunch and maybe help with jobs and housing.  So what wasn't shown is many do not want the food or camera or to be quizzed about how they wound up on the street. Alcohol drugs and mental illness is the number one reason  I told my friend after listening to a very drunk regular (who he knew by name ) that he has the patience of a saint  he said you can't be fixed on the goal you have to enjoy the progress. 

David would be so in with Lily on her weekend give outs. If Nick  doesn't give a crap about making her comfortable reaching out to homeless is a big stretch, kinda shines a light on what a good person she is and he's not. 

Please enough with Heather.  Stick a fork in the it. 

They weren't questioning the homeless people here and they asked if they wanted sandwiches, it wasn't forced on them. They also filmed it discreetly I thought. 

[Stillhoping]

I am still very hopeful for Tom and Lilly. Compared to various other "grooms" in the 4 seasons of this show he is a prince.

At least he wanted to be with Lilly...he wanted to celebrate the 1 month..

Even when these 2 argue a bit they are not crossing a "line"   ie like Nick's rant.

[Snewtsie]

MOST BORING EPISODE EVER.

Tom & Lily - doing great.  Blah blah blah.

Nick & Sonia - We are all still trying to find emotion in his flat personality.  Not there.

Heather & Derek - whyyyyyyy are they still on??? 

[kira28]

Did anyone else catch at the beginning of the party when when Sonia, let the woman and kid in.. Did she introduce herself? I heard her say I'm Sonia.  Did they not know her? Or she was meeting the kid for the first time? Sonia should never move back in.  When Nick said she should and sleep in the other room my first thought is he wants her to pay half the rent lol.   My first suspicion about Nick in the beginning is that he hates women.  But then u thought he was really sweet on the honeymoon and changed my mind.  His total disinterest in genuinely apologizing and taking any responsibility for hurting Sonia is a huge red flag.  I dated a guy who grew up without his dad and had an overbearing mother who was very controlling  this guy secretly despised women and took pleasure in hurting them.  He'd say nasty degrading things or just simple things like being with you is a, waste of my time.. He'd talk about how skinny or pretty his exes were even though I was thin and attractive it hurt because I hadn't asked.  It was a dig at me.  If I had any confidence or if I'd get mad and defend myself by saying I looked fine then he'd accuse me of thinking I was better than anyone else.  By the time I left him I was a mess.  He was crafty he'd seem nice but there was simmering rage under his smile.  I get that vibe from Nick. Doesn't like to be questioned doesn't like to feel pressured fuck you Dr pepper Sonia does not have yo move back in!!  Nick showed the most excitrment when talking about balls.. The decorations.  

Derek is an ass. Very childish.  I want to feel sorry for him because Heather was icy but he takes no responsibility!!  She's being mature and saying he's not a bad guy.  And he's being all passive aggressive.  It's not like he was this great guy who did nothing wrong and Heather just blew him off

Tom is a cheapskate.  Don't see it working long term.  

[LazyToaster]

Even though I'm no Nick fan, I actually enjoyed the whole sandwich giveaway thing.  I could tell that Sonia had done that before and was comfortable and it seemed to me that even though he was less comfortable (understandable) that he took his cue from her.  I liked how matter of fact she was - kind of hey, want a sandwich?  No 3rd degree, no judgement, no patronizing - just giving away sandwiches and that's it.  I also liked how they let people have more than one if they wanted it.  And, it seemed to me that the whole process affected Nick at least to a degree - I know, I know - so hard to tell - he is so - uh, Nick - but he did seem to feel a bit.  

Ha!  That's all you get from me Nick - I still don't like you and think Sonia could do way better - so there!  

[stuckin60s]

I thought it was interesting when Sonia said something like she wanted to see what Nick did off camera

[ClareWalks]

39 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I'll look again, but I didn't see any lilies in it. Could be wrong, of course.  :) 

I just watched it and there weren't lillies, unless Lilly thinks that daisies are lillies. Which...oh dear. She might. Bless her heart.

[stuckin60s]

I'm confused, if Lilly has a bad shoulder and needs surgery, would/should she be bowling?  Even if the injury is not on your prominent side, you still use it for balance, etc

[holly4755]

some people don't bowl and come to cheer on others. I really despise bowling and never participate, but when my mother took it up after her stroke, I was always there. 

[ClareWalks]

14 minutes ago, stuckin60s said:

I'm confused, if Lilly has a bad shoulder and needs surgery, would/should she be bowling?  Even if the injury is not on your prominent side, you still use it for balance, etc

As a former competitive bowler and a current fitness professional, I'd be more concerned about her surfing with a bad shoulder. That pushup motion from the board probably doesn't do her any favors.

[Vinyasa]

Quote

I want to know what was so appealing about Nick as a candidate. 

The show is cheap and he paid a promo fee for his T-shirts????

Just throwing something to wall to see if it sticks!

[biakbiak]

14 minutes ago, Vinyasa said:

The show is cheap and he paid a promo fee for his T-shirts????

Just throwing something to wall to see if it sticks!

That he paid money is pure speculation and I would be shocked if that were true given the size of his business and how they aren't doing any cross-promotion on the website, his name isn't mentioned in the about us section only the creator. On reality shows it isn't necessarily true that people pay for promotional consideration. I have friends who have gotten advertising on it on similar shows and no product or funds exchanged hands they just signed a release that stated they didn't care if their name was shown and it's even more unlikely for cast members.

Edited October 5, 2016 by biakbiak

[bichonblitz]

Another reason I don't believe Tom and Lily will work is because if they do decide to stay married, once the camera's stop rolling and they have to move out of the rental,  Tom is going to want to move back in to the bus, and that just ain't gonna work for Miss Lily.  Didn't Tom say in the beginning of the season that none of his other relationships worked because the women got tired of the bus and wanted to move on to a real home and he refused to budge? This was his lifestyle and he wasn't going to change for anybody.  We know Lily wants kids in the future,  how exactly would free spirited Tom expect to raise kids on that thing?  He clearly likes the spontanaity of living day by day, surfing under the sunny skies of Miami. He's thinking with his dick right now, reality will set in soon enough.  

Edited October 5, 2016 by bichonblitz

[nlkm9]

1 hour ago, stuckin60s said:

I'm confused, if Lilly has a bad shoulder and needs surgery, would/should she be bowling?  Even if the injury is not on your prominent side, you still use it for balance, etc

OMG thank you!! LOL I was like wait--shes crying about shoulder surgery, but she ziplines, surfed and bowled?

as far as "flowergate" lol, I have told my husband for years flowers are readily available anywhere and all you have to do is "pick them up" so i can never get snotty about any flowers....however......she did really buy a totally thoughtful gift and i guess i expected him to do something I little bit more thoughful, but you know--after watching the Daily "Tres brings Vanessa a gift every day" last season, Id rather see this. I like tom and lily together and while the gesture could have been a bit grander, Im glad he did something.

[Evil Queen]

So Nick wanted to be married so someone would be there for HIM. Sorry but not a reason to be married. I am sure more was said in that spot but I can imagine it was more about "for HIM". His saying she is the kind of person he wants to be married to.....he can't even say it with meaning. There is nothing like just like EVERYTHING else he has said about when it comes to her. The only truth he has told is he isn't attracted to her and I think most of us watching could see that. Then his eyes rolling all over when he is saying things about starting over and her moving back in....he doesn't mean a single thing he says. Sonia is right that Nick doesn't understand about how he hurt her. It shows in how he brushes quickly past it with the I do BUT. He was drunk looking in the car too. Could the "experts" just PLEASE stop pushing these couples to have something when there is nothing there at all!! Why would she need to live with him to "build a friendship"? That can be done living apart but yet he doesn't even want that really from her. He wants nothing at all. Sorry Pastor dumbass but why is that if Sonia doesn't move back that its her giving up love? Why not call out the loser for his crap? Sorry but what does Nick have to forgive Sonia for...huh Pepper? Pepper IMO has no business to EVER tell someone they should be moving back in with their husband. Sorry but I just could NEVER take advice from someone like her. She should not have been allowed to be an "expert" on this show IMO. She is a hypocrite when it comes to telling these people what to do in order to make their marriages work but she never made her own work for her own selfish reasons. The nerve telling Sonia she has to move back. Sonia needs to give her the finger and tell her where to stick her crappy advice. The only time this idiot "opens" up or acts semi human is because he has been drinking. Just like at their get together. He was only acting as he was because he was drinking. Yet we have to see another TH of him saying something about how Sonia needs to do this or that. All she needs to do is RUN far away from him!! He was so blank listening to his friend even and could care less about all that stuff. At the end of that scene he said how he needed another drink...that's it just run and grab another. SMH Amazing that that the "experts" don't smell that on him and see it or hear it even when he talks. 

I think Lily knows what she wants and has things planned out. That she had things planned out before this show even. She seems to want to get her career going in real estate. Make the money, put some away over time, have a family down the line once career is established and so on. She actually seems pretty smart about how she is going about things. The whole "new" vows....really wasn't new if he just changed it a little but it just seemed a bit much so soon though too. I could see doing this if they were together a year later but a month. If she came up with the picture for him on her own that was showing her putting thought into what her gift for him. If he knows she is working and appreciates how hard she works then why the heck is he bugging her during those moments? I will say that I am surprised it took so long for them to get out and seeing him trying to teach her to surf. I am on the fence still but at least they are out doing things. He is trying to include her in something he loves which is a good thing for sure. There is just those moments that I just am not sure where he really is at. I don't know how to explain it. BTW, the cheap thing...I get being cheap. I do have certain things I would rather spend money on over other things but I am someone that before I spend I think. I can't just spend freely. Its just not who I am. If its things that are needed I can spend without question but anything beyond that its another story. I will say that my husband will bring me things here and there as a surprise when he is out shopping. It could be anything from something I collect to food/drinks. The humor in the car with the gay cowboy thing was funny. I know we are goofy at times here with things so I can enjoy that kind of humor tossed in. 

Please why, oh why, does it matter if Heather could be friends with Derek? WHY??? These "experts" are the stupidest people. When all you hear is someone say "he is nice" and nothing else does that not say they do not like this person at all and are done? Derek needs to get over is whiny pathetic self and grow up. He is trying to use whatever time he has left with this scenes to gain whatever pity he can from anyone he who will give it to him. He needs to learn to lay off the pot when he is going into scenes with these "experts" and Heather. Talk about another round of bad editing...that was horrible. Making her look one way and him with his shit eating, stoned grin. His whole thing about how she should have had the papers on her....what an immature piece of shit he is. The whole trying to reach out to her...IF he had does he not get it that she is done and over or does he think it will just make him look good for trying to do so? Sorry but to me it comes off not just pathetic but bordering on obsessed and not able to move on from a 10 day marriage (if it was even that long). IF we are seeing it pushed to what we have from this one and the next one (looking like he is on a date and her asking her friend whatever about herself) then what the heck will we end up having to sit through during the decision day with them? Will it be pathetic recaps of their time together and that is it or another not needed sit down together bs? Please let it just be over already. 

[Evil Queen]

3 hours ago, Jellybeans said:

I do think Nick and Sonia are growing closer.  I guess I am watching a different show, lol.

Just curious but what has you saying this?

[Snarklepuss]

3 hours ago, belladonna77 said:

It's not the cheapness of the flowers, really. It's that Tom showed little thought in doing something for Lilian. She blew up a picture of him surfing and he got her flowers. It's impersonal.

ITA, but it's not even just that it wasn't so personal, it's that he only gave Lilly the flowers because he felt guilty about not having a gift for her.  Now, if Mr. Snarkle had forgotten an anniversary (which he wouldn't) he would wait a week or so and surprise me with a nice gesture.  Just yesterday he came home with something really thoughtful and useful that he bought at Big Lots for $5.00.  It's a little cell phone easel.  I recently broke my arm so little conveniences like this mean the world to me.  The problem I have with Tom is that he followed a really thoughtful gift with a thoughtless one out of guilt..  It's not about how much it costs.  He could have given the flowers out of appreciation, even that would have been better, IMO.

[Empress1]

6 hours ago, izabella said:

The only problem I see is that Lily and Tom DO NOT see eye to eye on making money and spending money.  Like, not at all.  She wants to make lots of money and says so straight up.  And she told us she has things she wants to do with that money, like have babies and raise a family, and not on a bus but in a house near a good school district.

Tom wants to work little, earn little, and spend little.  This is going to be a big problem for them.

Yeah, I think this is the biggest issue, unless Lily is OK with being the breadwinner and Tom possibly being a SAHD. But somehow I feel like Lily isn't the kind of ambitious person who is cool with her partner not being ambitious. And that's not a judgement - I'm not either. Money is important to me too. I always want to be increasing my salary, unless there's evidence that making a lateral salary move will pay off down the line. (I don't have that many hard, fast dating rules but one of them is no starving artists. I had a long relationship with one; never again.) But they have to be aligned or it will never work.

I didn't think the flowers looked cheap but I don't care about flowers at all. Tulips are my favorites; everything else is "other." They'd be last on my hypothetical wedding priority list - I actually think I'd be inclined to try to decorate without using them. HOWEVER, in comparison to the gift that Lily gave him, which was very personal and thoughtful and thought-out, they didn't look as personal. Flowers tend to be a pretty safe, generic gift.

Heather and Derek ... there is no point to this. "Remembering the good times" amounts to remembering two days that happened two weeks ago. MAFS, y'all fucked this up. Let it die, damn. It kind of delights me that Heather has no fucks to give and is just over it. "No, I've said all I have to say. Yes, we should file ASAP." (And really, what's the argument against doing that? Why belabor the point?)

"Well, you can move back in and sleep on the couch." I wish I would. It was also telling that Nick said that Sonia was "exactly like the girl [he] wanted to be married to," not "the girl he wanted to be married to," and really telling when he said he'd learned how to be empathetic. Is that something you need to learn? He talks about wanting to be married to her and being attracted to her, but his actions don't show that at ALL. He doesn't touch her ever. I don't think I've seen them touching since the honeymoon.

It was really weird that Sonia's friend's son was at the party. I'm guessing his mom couldn't get a sitter? It clearly wasn't a kid-friendly thing. I laughed when she said "I fucking married a stranger!" and the kid was right next to her and she corrected herself.

I fell the fuck out when Nick's friend likened marriage to six-pack abs. He's not wrong, but the bro-y-ness of the analogy and the way he said it made me laugh.

Sonia really has a great head of hair. That was my key takeaway from this episode.

[ClareWalks]

One thing that really leapt out at me this episode is how pieced together the voiceovers are. They'll literally take 20 different clips of someone talking and Frankenstein a sentence out of it. It's impossible to know what any of these folks are actually saying or thinking, the editing is so intrusive.

[Adeejay]

4 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

 Could the "experts" just PLEASE stop pushing these couples to have something when there is nothing there at all!!

These “experts” are useless. Nick should have been told that when you sleep with a woman, and then yell to the world that she is unattractive and doesn’t do it for you, there really is no coming back from that. Instead, we get Pastor Cal saying if Sonia doesn’t move back in, it will ruin their marriage.  What marriage? Now I am beginning to wonder if there is a correlation between their salaries and the number of couples they get to stay together.   

Edited October 6, 2016 by Adeejay

[Jellybeans]

6 minutes ago, Evil Queen said:

Just curious but what has you saying this?

because both of them have said the cameras bother them and it is showing.  they also hid the fact they had sex from the public which is kind of interesting.

i also think the editing is all over the place but i can't define it. 

[psychoticstate]

2 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Another reason I don't believe Tom and Lily will work is because if they do decide to stay married, once the camera's stop rolling and they have to move out of the rental,  Tom is going to want to move back in to the bus, and that just ain't gonna work for Miss Lily.  Didn't Tom say in the beginning of the season that none of his other relationships worked because the women got tired of the bus and wanted to move on to a real home and he refused to budge? This was his lifestyle and he wasn't going to change for anybody.  We know Lily wants kids in the future,  how exactly would free spirited Tom expect to raise kids on that thing?  He clearly likes the spontanaity of living day by day, surfing under the sunny skies of Miami. He's thinking with his dick right now, reality will set in soon enough.  

 

2 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

ITA, but it's not even just that it wasn't so personal, it's that he only gave Lilly the flowers because he felt guilty about not having a gift for her.  Now, if Mr. Snarkle had forgotten an anniversary (which he wouldn't) he would wait a week or so and surprise me with a nice gesture.  Just yesterday he came home with something really thoughtful and useful that he bought at Big Lots for $5.00.  It's a little cell phone easel.  I recently broke my arm so little conveniences like this mean the world to me.  The problem I have with Tom is that he followed a really thoughtful gift with a thoughtless one out of guilt..  It's not about how much it costs.  He could have given the flowers out of appreciation, even that would have been better, IMO.

Well, to be fair, these are both assumptions. 

FWIW, before I met my ex I said I would never leave the area I was living in.  I met him, fell in love and moved because I wanted to be with him and loved him enough to do so.  It's possible that Tom loves Lily enough to not live in the bus full time any longer. It's also possible that he may change his mind after living in a regular house for the last 4 weeks.  

Also, the editing monkeys show us what they want us to see.  A relationship with no issues is not good tv so they might be doing their best to show us how Lily is super ambitious and Tom is so much more laid back - - problems!  Drama!  

[ChristmasJones]

Not that I would ever go on a reality show, but this show in particular would be a huge deterrent- even if I was very, very careful about everything I said and did while the cameras were rolling.... all bets are off when the tape gets in the editors' hands. Its scary how much they are able to control what we see through editing alone.

[Empress1]

5 minutes ago, ChristmasJones said:

Not that I would ever go on a reality show, but this show in particular would be a huge deterrent- even if I was very, very careful about everything I said and did while the cameras were rolling.... all bets are off when the tape gets in the editors' hands. Its scary how much they are able to control what we see through editing alone.

I don't think this show is especially egregious - which is to say, I think ALL reality TV is heavily edited. One of the stipulations of the contracts that the cast of The Real World signs says you can't change your appearance drastically (I remember when Melissa in the New Orleans cast cut off all her hair in a short pixie cut and they made her wear hats; I think production was pissed) because it makes it harder to keep up the illusion that they don't splice stuff together.

[Evil Queen]

2 hours ago, Jellybeans said:

because both of them have said the cameras bother them and it is showing.  they also hid the fact they had sex from the public which is kind of interesting.

i also think the editing is all over the place but i can't define it. 

I do agree that editing is all over the place but I don't think the cameras bug them as much as they claim. Nick is living it up on the cameras with his shirts when he can. IF it was that much of an issue to be on camera for either of them they shouldn't have signed up for any show ever. The fact is if one signs up for ANY kind of reality tv you know there will be cameras around you at any time for filming. All I have to say about the sex is that I wouldn't be surprised if it happened only while he was drunk. It seems to be the only time he acts semi human...even if its anger he is showing. I also wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to hide it and talk her into it as well or into thinking it was her idea to keep it secret because he was regretting it. Yet as far as I see there is nothing there at all between them. There hasn't been at all.

[Lion18]

10 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I remember when I was in college and the girls would compare as to who got the best bouquet of roses for Valentine's Day. 

I don't see Tom as resenting Lily at all.  He feels the way I do, I can't stand people who think they need things to prove they're okay; for me, the best money spent is on experiences, not on shit that eventually will collect dust.  I think the gesture of bringing flowers was sweet no matter where they came from.

I find Tom very sweet, so far.

Reminds me of the episode in The Middle. Frankie tells Mike not to get her anything on Valentine's Day then when he doesn't get her a rose she gets mad

as we say Its the thought that matters. I also think tom and Lilly are getting along fine and they just make up problems for them for drama

[amcfar]

Me (paraphrasing, because I don't remember my exact words) talking to the TV after Tom started complaining about Lilly not giving him enough attention and being distracted with work:

"SOMEONE has to make the money since you clearly aren't making it! Quit whining!" 

Seriously, waaaaaah! Guess what? My husband and I have three kids (youngest is a baby) and sometimes he has to work overtime/long hours/weekends because he works on important things that can affect the entire company and its productivity. I'm appreciative that he has such a great work ethic and is always dependable to provide more than enough for all five of us. I've never had to worry about him providing for us because he is incredibly dependable and always has been. 

Do I see Tom as being that way? No. I peg him as the type who'd go and surf his sorrows away instead of keeping/finding a job to provide for Lilly and their hypothetical children. 

I see major problems ahead for Tom and Lilly if they don't figure this financial situation out very quickly. They may mesh in some ways but their spending habits and work ethics are miles apart. And, in the long run, it will catch up with them. They will start to resent each other because their core values differ so much. 

Nick and Sonia: Sorry, but not for one minute do I buy this new and changed version of Nick. She moves out after he yells about being unattracted to her/not liking her and suddenly he wants her to come back home?! Nah, sounds like a script to me. Plus, he's not charismatic enough to be even the least bit convincing regarding enthusiasm towards Sonia. Nice try, but no. 

[Vinyasa]

 This season seems twice as long as the last two seasons.  And nothing really good to snark on.

Are we any closer to the finale? 

[Paddywagon]

I don't think Tom is cheap, just untrained, lol!  He did say he got the flowers because he felt guilty but I bet when he gives a gift from his heart it will be really really nice.  Like diamond ring nice.

[ChristmasJones]

I don't see any changes in Nick at all.  He has the exact same flat demeanor he has had since the very first time we saw him on this show. When he is more comfortable (such as with his mom, or friends, or with alcohol in his system), we seem him slightly more relaxed, but even then he is not a very expressive, open person - just bit less anxious.

[fabdarling]

Did anyone else just loved Nick's friend? They should have matched Sonia with him!!

[MsPH]

I actually think Nick does like Sonia and the outburst was more about him feeling like he was pushed into a corner by Sonia and the producers than about any honest feelings. Even happy couples say things they don't mean during arguments sometimes, not that it's acceptable, but I don't think it's something you can't get over either. Maybe it's the fact that Sonia's now unavailable and not hanging on to Nick's every word that's making him more interested in her, but he did look like he genuinely missed having her around this episode. He is just so utterly clueless about how to fix things. If I was Sonia and a guy I'd already had sex with told me he's not attracted to me, I would not be going back for more until he showed me in no uncertain way that he really didn't mean it. Nick thinks it's enough that he said it, but he needs to show it. Trying to be her platonic friend is certainly not gonna get them anywhere, since the issue is still there, she doesn't know if he even likes her. He could do wonders by simply telling her she's pretty or giving her any compliment really, trying to initiate some physical contact with a hug or something, but he's just so timid and closed off it's like pulling teeth getting anything out of him. He seriously needs to man up sooner rather than later. So frustrating.

Tom is starting to annoy me too. I have some experience with stingy guys and they all seem to share certain traits that I find unappealing. It's not really about the money, it's how they need to justify their stinginess to themselves by placing themselves above others who they deem materialistic. If you're willing to go through so much effort and mental trickery just to avoid spending any money then it says something about your priorities. I'm careful with money too and can't understand people who live beyond their means, but IIRC Tom said he makes a decent amount of money despite his "minimalism". He is not broke or anything. The fact that he didn't even think of getting anything for Lilly, not even a single red rose, could just be down to thoughtlessness, but then his solution was to get her a few flowers that looked like they'd been plucked out of someone's garden. It's the delivery that bothered me the most, telling her to close her eyes like he was about to present her with something special. I was actually impressed by how undisappointed she was after all the build-up. Tom is lucky to have her.

I was equally underwhelmed by his so called vows. I was expecting something really touching and well thought out, but again, it was generic and seemed like something that took 5 minutes to think of. I'm sure Lilly could've managed that much as well, but she clearly wanted to spend some time on hers. Tom just seems way too impressed by his own efforts considering what we're being shown. JMO. Obviously he's a prince compared to the other two men, but still far from perfect. I don't know how compatible these two are in the long run, but at least they like each other for now.

Derek and Heather need to just disappear. Talk about beating a dead horse. The suspenseful music when Rachel asked them about their divorce plans as if there was a chance of them saying "Never! We've decided to make this work after all". Oh please. No one cares. NO ONE.

[louisamaye]

Wow, new here, and just had to sign in so I could join the conversation. I saw one of the early shows this season and was sucked in despite myself. Binge-watched the entire history, and eventually wound up in season four again. I have so many opinions!

Okay. First of all--wth is up with every season, them matching a hot chick with a guy who is not... hot? Sometimes more than one? Season One, it--holy cow!--worked. Talk about unexpected. And I loved the show, was fascinated by it.

But by the time I reached Seaon Four again the blinders were off and I was wondering why in the heck is anybody trusting these people? Heather & Derek? Haven't they made this mistake too many times before? Handing a guy a woman who is way out of his league--in her opinion--so that she is horrified at first sight, doing her best to cover because she's on television. This makes great drama, but seriously, did they really think this would work?

When I look at them matching a woman who doesn't like dogs with a guy who owns two of them--no way none of this came up in all their extensive testing. A guy like Derek with Heather, who has a very high opinion of herself. It is very difficult for me to think they really thought these were good matches. They thought they were okay matches with built-in drama.

Also, they can say they receive thousands of entries and that they background check everyone, blah blah blah. But if these are truly the best matches they can come up with, I have to question--were all of these thousands of  applications from the same geographic area? Or were they from all over the place?

Okay so yes I agree with others that the experts have a vested interest in making these couples look like they at least work on paper. But it's hard for me to imagine that they really didn't see some of these problems coming. I also understand why the experts are saying the things they say. They are the ones under contract who have to legitimately make the couples look like they have a chance in hell.

So, to the specifics. Heather? Didn't try. She was ready to bail immediately. She finally got aware of enough of how bad she might look that she tried to shift blame, and tried to look like she had given it a shot, but seriously? Never. Bailing that fast on a what--6 or 8 week show? Sorry, she never gave it a shot. Was Derek perfect? Was he her great match? I have no clue. But she clearly never intended to give him a shot once she saw he wasn't her idea of hot.

Re: the assumed pot smoking? Again I look at the experts and wonder wtf? I think we have applicants lying about what they do or what they'll accept, or we have experts so desperate to make matches from slim pickings, or so needing to make matches that provide tv drama, that they put a couple like Heather and Derek together.

OMG, poor Sonia. Nick seemed a cold fish from the beginning. I couldn't figure it out. But when he finally said that if the experts did their jobs it would have been instant, it wouldn't have taken work--how did they miss this fatal flaw in the entire premise of their show?

When he said he wasn't attracted to her at all? It seemed real, totally real, and I didn't blame her for moving out.

And I am sappy enough to think maybe she should move back in, if some of the things they both say are true. Two weeks. Give proximity a shot. Finish the experiment. But now that I've read the opinions here, I am willing to accept that maybe I'm wrong. Maybe she is being classy and fulfilling her commitment to the show, and playing nice on tv and going through the motions. I guess after seeing season one, part of me is looking at them and thinking they might still pull this one out and shock us all, but realistically, I have probably just read too many romance novels.

Finally, Tom and Lillian. I want to believe that they have a shot. I want to believe that they may decide do keep 'the experiment' going longer and give it a shot. First of all, she works all the time. That's real estate--being available all the damned time, every time a client wants you. But there is an assumption in these comments that she is hugely more successful than he is and if I recall correctly, didn't they have similar earnings that were very much in flux when they compared? My friend was in real estate for two years before making her first sale, then close five houses in one day. On paper it was huge. But spread over two years, not so huge. Real estate is constant availability without dependable, constant income.

On the other hand, there is this huge assumption that because he has that bus he's a loser, and because we've not seen him working, he's not. I've been following all kinds of bus conversions and full-time RV living folks for a couple of years just because I find them interesting. And that bus? Is a jewel. The woodwork and the details in it what little we saw? Were amazing. This is not a loser in a second rate, falling apart trailer on the beach. This is a guy who truly works on yachts--another thing I have a little bit of knowledge about--and put quality workmanship into his bus, whether he did it or had his employees or subcontractors do it. He said, when they were talking about finances, that his income varied by how many projects he had in a year. He may have cleared time for this show. Or maybe he's between projects. His job may give him stretches of down time, and he may have money stashed so that he can enjoy those periods until the next yacht comes along.

This is all speculation--but you can't assume because she is shown working a lot and he isn't that he is a loser and she would be the major breadwinner.

Bottom line, I'd like to see this couple make it. If they don't, then this show is nothing but the trainwreck Honey Boo Boo type reality show I assumed it was before i got sucked in earlier this year.

And I add my voice to that of others--where WERE the dogs tonight? Another detail--the experts matching somebody with two dogs with somebody 'terrified' of dogs. No, she was never terrified. I know people who are terrified of dogs, and Sonia was not. She wasn't comfortable with them. She may have been injured by one, but terrified? No. And the whole, "I want a dog now," after what we saw seems to confirm that.

Okay, got a lot off my chest. LOL!